UFC destroyed all the PPV records in 2009: (via Meltzer newsletter)
"... doing an estimated 7,755,000 buys (and given most of the numbers are first estimates, and that the nature of domestic PPV is numbers will usually increase 8-12% from the original estimate, the number could very conceivably approach 8.5 million. Using the 7,755,000 figure, that would mean a $349 million PPV gross. The all-time record for a single company was set last year by UFC of an estimated $283 million. The all-time record for boxing was set in 2007 at $255 million, while the all-time record for pro wrestling was set by WWE in 2001 at $260 million.
"What is most amazing about this is that if it wasn’t for extremely bad luck, that figure would have been significantly higher. Losing the Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin fight from UFC 106 cost the company 500,000 buys, and you could argue more. Losing Quinton Jackson vs. Rashad Evans from UFC 107 cost 300,000 buys, and perhaps more.
"UFC 100, headlined by Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, ended up as the fourth biggest PPV event in history, trailing only boxing matches with Oscar De La Hoya vs. Floyd Mayweather, Mike Tyson vs. Evander Holyfield and Tyson vs. Lennox Lewis. UFC topped the 500,000 mark six times in its 13 PPV shows of the year, the same number of times as last year."
over 2 years ago
Nick Thomas
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Is there any way to know the average sale of UFC PPV’s per card for 2009 and also for boxing and WWE? I’m just wondering if the UFC has that much more because it had more cards for 2009 than boxing and WWE?
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
HBO Boxing had only 3 PPV cards (850k, 1 mln, 1.25 mln) and WWE had 14 PPVs
http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl
the wwe does 13 ppvs a year (two in october).
i am impressed that the ufc destroyed last years all time mark by sixty million, even without evans v rampage and another brock fight. they should hit four hundred million this year.
by sadface on Jan 2, 2010 12:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But really whats crazy is that they did this number with cards like Jackson/Jardine and their overseas cards. The end of the year was supposedly the weakest we’ve seen starting at 102. As far as headliners go this year has been sorta weak.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 2, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think there was ever a moment of debate over MMA being a big sport
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 2, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
But a while ago
Many people, (Kid Nate and a couple others on the staff iirc come to mind) were prophesying doom and gloom for the UFC. So i think his satire hold some water.
No one was prophesying any such thing. What he and others have said is either, the UFC will not get as big as Dana White claims it will; or they have hit a speed bump (read injuries) and aren’t growing at the pace they were earlier. No one, to my knowledge, has said things are on a downward spiral. Even Jake Rossen, in his much maligned blog, wrote that the UFC will continue to grow.
by John Nash on Jan 2, 2010 2:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s spin and propaganda, really that is part of Dana White’s job. You have to wonder how many people have actually read Jake Rossen’s article(and for that matter how many read it before White blew up) and how many are just going by what Dana says? Yes a lot of articles came out about stagnation and slowing of growth but I think most of us were smart enough to get that White’s comparision to the NFL was just him being a fight promoter to start with. The whole thing is just overblown drama, which in the end increases interest in Sherdog and the UFC, people love a good cat fight.
I’m pretty sure i remember (not being glib here, i’m actually pretty sure, but could be wrong obviously) at least a couple of the writers here implied that the UFC was in serious trouble a while ago during the rash of injuries and implying that the trouble wasn’t just short term, to which Micheal Rome made a counter post basically calling nonsense on the concept. That’s what i was referring to.
Of course, i could be remembering it wrong, and if i am, my apologies.
The pace of growth in the US will slow, they will still grow, but they can’t keep this pace on the same product. Being on tv more is key as well as expanding across the world. PPVs have a cap in the US, they can double business on PPV, but the path to easiest growth is more free shows (I.E. ufc on versus or a network deal) and going to new countries (Australia and for the love of god go back to Canada more).
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
agreed
the real way they will grow will be to land a network deal could u imagine a brock headlined card on espn? and get much much much more espn and other mainstream sports press coverage what would really help would be mma live being turned into a real tv show instead of a online show
That’s just false.
Elite and Strikeforce were on network TV and it didn’t do that, why would espn be different?
Being on network TV would be helpful, but at what cost? If the right deal was on the table, they would take it. “Being on network TV” is not the end game, and doing it will not make everything magically super and perfect for the world of mma. That should be obvious to everyone by now.
elite xc and strikeforce do not have the brand name of a UFC if a UFC card is on network tv believe me it will be a big deal. and of course they need the right deal thats a given noone wants to see the UFC stuck in a bad deal
also every single other major sport succeeds because they are on network tv and can be watched for free by their fans, the NFL would lose a considerble amount of fans if the superbowl was a ppv event
Every other major sport succeeds because they get enough money from network TV to succeed.
AFL was on espn, failed. Elite was on CBS, failed. Network TV is not some magical fairy thing that will make everything better.
but it will help if they know how to manage. If the world cup was on PPV and not on network TV (and this goes to the SuperBowl as well as other sports), I’d imagine that it would not have the same amount of viewers that it usually has. If the UFC want MMA to be as big as they seem to want in the next 10 years, putting it on network TV is definitely the next step.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
They want to get on network TV as essentially a commercial for the PPV. Hopefully this will impact PPV buys enough to let them start beefing up the network shows and getting ratings to attract the huge sponsors that allow sports like the NFL and NBA live entirely on network television. But first and foremost they are focusing on the current breadwinner that is PPV.
Guillotine.
oh I understand that, but with time, like you said, having it on network TV would potentially be much more lucrative than PPV’s. but they have to get it on network TV first, which is my point.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
Potentially but not guaranteed. The vast majority of the US target demographic for the UFC has cable tv to start with. Lets face it, if you don’t have cable then your not ordering PPV’s anyway, so why would the UFC care to target you. The ratings on CBS we all fall all over really aren’t that good (SpongeBob gets better ratings every week on Nick) and the UFC can get pretty darn close to those ratings with SpikeTV, they also have vastly more bargaining power with Spike too. We like to think that if the UFC was on CBS they would blow the roof off and maybe even get up to ratings numbers equivalent to an average CSI episode but we don’t know that they would get all that much better than what CBS is getting now.
As for ESPN, well eventually they will get on board without having to mortgage the farm to get them to pay attention, besides they really don’t get much better ratings than Spike does for similar level programming either. The big deal for ESPN would be to get regular coverage on Sports Center and the talking head shows.
exactly what the UFC needs is just the attention that comes along with being on a espn or a cbs even though it wont bring back the same amount of cash that a ppv does
if u watch any episode of sportscenter or pti or read any sports page in any newspaper they will have zero mention of the UFC or mma in general espn.com doesnt even have its own mma page they use sherdog
the UFC has really come a long way but they still have alot more to go and the attention that UFC cards consistenty on a network would bring huge amounts of press coverage
the part about the UFC using network TV as a commercial for their PPV’s is pure speculation (which makes a lot of sense). The main point however, is that if DW is being 100% honest about getting MMA as a major sport in the next 10 years (or biggest sport as he puts it, which I don’t agree with but that’s besides the point), than I don’t see how he can do that without having a network TV deal to increase its popularity. I understand that the demographics for MMA has cable, but having a network TV deal will increase its popularity much more than cable can. 500+ channels can be confusing, and anyone who has cable watches network TV more frequent than cable channels. Unless he’s thinking of putting it on ESPN and other very big cable channels, network TV is the way to go IMO and Spike and Versus can only get you so far…
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
The speculation is that the UFC (or any MMA organization) can get that much of a greater ratings jump on Network tv, we just don’t know if that is what would happen. Network ratings have been sliding for decades and especially when talking about the young male demographics cable is a proven winner. Heck the only things I have watched on CBS in the last two years are the MMA events and an occasional football game during the day. I don’t even check the networks to see what is on anymore (granted I am older than the target demographic of the UFC but that makes the point show even more). There are still millions and millions of people in the US without cable tv but then those people aren’t going to be buying PPV’s anyway so they don’t really matter to the discussion all that much. The jump from cable to network just isn’t that big of a deal anymore because they just aren’t that much larger, not to mention cable networks are more demographic oriented which plays right into the UFC’s target audience (the average age for a CBS viewer is something like 53).
It is speculation, but you are also making speculations, we are both equal on that front :P
I still think that the UFC will reach a broader audience by signing with a bigger network, may that network be on free TV or cable. You say you only watched a few things on CBS, but what about Fox, NBC and ABC? What about ESPN? What else do you watch on Spike and Versus besides MMA? I am sure if the UFC were to make the jump onto a bigger channel, and any network TV I’d think would bring more ratings than Spike or Versus, they’d reach a bigger audience, and if they are serious about making MMA the biggest sport, they need a bigger channel.
Look at Oprah for example, she has decided to quit from network TV and will pursue cable. They themselves (the Oprah program) have calculated the numbers, and have concluded that they will lose millions of viewers. I’m just saying, if DW is honest about making this sport the biggest sport, than he needs a broader distribution, and I still speculate that this distribution tool is network TV.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
I watch scrubs on ABC (although normally I forget and just catch it online), I watch my local news on NBC occasionally and I can’t remember the last thing non-NFL I watched on Fox. I haven’t watched much at all on any of the networks in decades and I don’t even flip though them when surfing the channels, I know lots of people who are the same way. You can look at the WWE as an example, They get better ratings every week than MMA has ever got on any channel yet every time the major networks have tried to put them on the ratings haven’t been all that great. Some things just never get over very well on network tv. MMA definatly isn’t Oprah and there just is no way to tell what they would do on network tv. A move to network only makes sense if the money is there and so far it hasn’t been.
As far as cable tv goes, lets dig into the ratings:
Going back to when TUF was still on: November 22, 2009
Rank Shows NET DAY Time Viewers Live+SD (000)
1 Ravens/Browns ESPN Mon 08:30P-11:39P 5,363
2 Sportscenter ESPN Mon 11:39P-12:00A 2,735
3 WWE Entertainment USA Mon 10:00P-11:16P 2,546
4 Project Runway LIF Thu 10:00P-11:00P 2,496
5 Sons Of Anarchy FX Tue 10:00P-11:07P 2,474
6 WWE Entertainment USA Mon 09:00P-10:00P 2,304
7 South Park CMDY Wed 10:00P-10:30P 2,023
8 Top Chef BRAV Wed 10:00P-11:00P 1,910
9 The Ultimate Fighter SPK Wed 10:00P-11:01P 1,826
10 The Hills MTV Tue 10:00P-10:30P 1,795
So where else should they go to get bigger ratings on cable? ESPN does great with the NFL and Sports Center but have they even shown an interest in the UFC? The WWE isn’t going to let USA sign the UFC as they are competition for each other, FX network is for movies and shows the sports end up on the much less watched FSN and I don’t see Lifetime, Bravo or Comedy Central being interested in MMA programming at all.
Leading cable networks Week of November 30 – December 6, 2009
Total Day Average Viewers (Live+SD)
Network (000s)
NICK 2,435
NAN 1,581
ESPN 1,545
DSNY 1,504
USA 1,459
TNT 1,281
FOXN 1,219
ADSM 1,088
FAM 1,052
A&E 957
FX 932
TOON 928
TBSC 908
HALL 897
LIFE 777
TRU 761
HIST 719
SPK 708
FOOD 682
HGTV 672
AMC 636
NKJR 543
DISC 633
SYFY 571
TVLD 541
So which cable network would give the UFC a big enough jump for it to be worth moving? How many of those channels that average more daily viewers would even be interested in them? Really the only move that would make sense would be to ESPN and if ESPN offered them a good deal they probably would. The rest of them either wouldn’t be interested or wouldn’t really make that much difference.
nice, you make a compelling point :P
Although there were talks between the UFC and ESPN in the past, but it fell through (I think this was in the end of 07 to beginning of 08, not sure). Fox seems like a great place too, where are you getting this info? You should always put the links when quoting or copying and pasting (but I’m not saying I don’t believe you).
I think ultimately, there will be a network deal though, mainly because Dana has expressed interest in it (as long as the deal is good), and also because I do believe SF will pick up in CBS (and if they do in fact pick up, I’d think it’s only natural that the UFC would have to get onboard to keep their mainstream status). But we’ll see, you make great points though.
PS: Scrubs is crap now… can’t believe you still watch it :P
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
It’s just Nielsen ratings data, it can be found all over the internet. I like tv by the numbers(where the above is cut/pasted from) but they are available all over.
Yea the new scrubs is pretty poor, which is probably why I keep forgetting that it is on. I do still watch reruns on Comedy Central after work every day.
the first 6 seasons were the best, I only watched the last two as a fan. They should’ve just quitted after the season 8 finale as they promised (to me it’s over).
btw, hooch is seriously crazy!
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
I didn’t actually start watching it till 2007, one of my friends convinced me to give it a try and I got hooked on the reruns. If you do a bit of looking you can find 3 to 4 hours a day of scrubs reruns on tv. I didn’t actually watch an episode new until after the writers strike but it’s on comedy central so much it didn’t take long for me to get to the point of being able to repeat the lines with them.
Every time I see Hooch on one of the crappy Disney channel shows my daughter watches I crack up.
damn writers strike, I think they are to blame for what happened to scrubs. That’s when it stopped being that funny, and just became mediocre. They never recovered after that. I’m not on the US though so I don’t get the reruns on TV, I watch most of my favorite US shows on sidereel.com, you can’t fight the internet!
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
I agree networks are dying.
But more importantly at this point the ratings jump would certainly happen for first 2 cards… and that’s the problem, nobody knows with any level of confidence what will happen after that at current market levels. It could dip and plateau at unsustainable levels. And that’s why it has to be the right deal (proper support from the network) and at the right time (demand levels are healthy enough and Zuffa can logistically do it).
The problem will be if it doesn’t sustain with a high enough baseline there arent enough sponsors to ensure long term health (where Zuffa will be happy and the network will be happy).
Network will happen when it’s the best time to do it logistically and when the market is ready sustain long term success with it.
Imagine if Zuffa signed the ESPN/ABC deal… the current problems would have compounded. Instead ZUffa is doing only 2 extra shows on versus and if the fight nights beat Urijah versus Pulver then Zuffa has even more leverage next fall and 2 serious entities bidding on the property (NBC/NBC Sports and ABC/ESPN)
The Super Bowl isn’t on PPV because it’s part of the multibillion dollar NFL package that the networks shell out but rest assured if the NFL could get away with putting it on the NFL network instead they would because they would make a hell of a lot more money that way. Even with all the money the NFL is paid they still work off a very strict profit margin and many teams have serious financial issues.
I’m not that familiar with the channels that shows NFL games and NBA, etc, but what is the NFL Network? They have their own channels on cable?
Even with all the money the NFL is paid they still work off a very strict profit margin and many teams have serious financial issues.
Wouldn’t this be more of a management issue within the NFL and not with the network TV channels? From what I understand (correct me if I’m wrong), the sponsors pay the NFL and the NFL pays each team, and not the network TV pays each team separately?
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
from what I know, there is shared revenue but teams like Jacksonville sell half their tickets and that doesn’t cover payroll and other expenses, even if they’re not in the red. i don’t really know much about the NFL revenue, just going by hearsay. there is the NFL Network, it shows one game a week for half the season and isn’t in every American household
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
The NFL Network: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Network
The NFL Sunday Ticket: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Sunday_Ticket
Yes plenty of people pay for their weekly football fix.
The NFL is a non-profit organization set up by the teams and the proceeds are split equally. Once again it’s easier to post a link than to try and explain: http://www.forbes.com/1997/10/03/feature.html
by who me on Jan 2, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
thanks, I’ll have a read. I honestly don’t know how they work, it’s mostly speculations.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
The NFL is very complicated and messy, it’s also worth noting that it’s on a level so far above Zuffa that it’s hard to compare (Zuffa is rumored worth about the same as one average NFL team, around $1 billion). The numbers involved in the big three sports in the US is staggering.
A decent site for financial statistics in sports: http://www.plunkettresearch.com/Industries/Sports/SportsStatistics/tabid/273/Default.aspx
by who me on Jan 2, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The NFL’s biggest push in the last couple of years has been to start their own pay network because that is where the money is (even considering the crazy amounts of money the networks pay them). They also black out local games because NFL teams make a lot more off live attendance than they do being on network tv (even considering the crazy amounts of money the networks pay them). Of course the NFL has also been on network tv since that actually meant something too(since October 22, 1939). Look at the NBA though, they are on cable more than the networks and they are still huge, heck a lot of people in the tv industry say that free network tv is dying. Things are very different now than they were a couple of decades ago.
23% growth and 66 mill in gross PPV sales is pretty awesome.
In these times there are few businesses w/ that kind of growth. I bet investors are chomping at the bit to get a piece of the UFC.
i agree
everybody should remember the type of economic climate 2009 brought us and then look at the UFC’s growth
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Jan 2, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Could BE be any more of a UFC nuthugger?
If you guys dedicated half as much time to non-Zuff product as you do to UFC and WEC the site might be worth my time. Its your job to be unbiased, not promote UFC every opportunity you can
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 2, 2010 2:07 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
What are you talking about?
BE is not a UFC or Zuffa nut-hugger. They’ve had 2 articles in the past 2 days criticizing Dana and the UFC. Last week there was more coverage of the Strikeforce event than the WEC event.
Turn your sarcasm detector way up because you’re not getting any readings.
by John Nash on Jan 2, 2010 2:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If this is sarcasm, it’s a major fail.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
you're a major fail
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 2, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wut?
Is this sarcasm?
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
I wouldn't mention this, but it's kinda important:
You need to edit the way you quoted the article, Nick. If you’re going to start the first paragraph with a quotation mark, you need to start the second and third paragraphs with one as well. Otherwise it’s confusing at best and misleading at worst.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Jan 2, 2010 2:27 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Enjoy.
Alla som inte dansar är våldtäktsmän.
Cré nom de Zeus, on est jamais content.
Hadouken.
by Eugene Schelfaut on Jan 2, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
This is an outrage.
I’m sick and tired of people ignoring the real reason for UFC 100’s astronomical PPV buys:
The tingling in your pants is confirmation that I am right.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 2, 2010 3:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
seriously where the hell is sexyama
where’s he been? is he hurt? and why did they replace him fighting wandy for bisbing? sexy would beat the shit outta both bisping and wandy we really need to see him fight again soon
Yes it’s the real reason the UFC’s numbers have been down in the second half of the year, not enough sexyama. They should let him coach TUF (both teams) if they want to see some real ratings.
Genius.
Bolts from the Blue // "I have got to be the most boring GM in the league." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
Sapp Dance!
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 2, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
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