Will the Future of MMA Be Determined in 2010?
by Kid Nate on Jan 15, 2010 3:25 PM EST
in MMA News
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On Wednesday Joss Gross wrote a very compelling piece, some excerpts of which follow:
As the sport continues on its path out of the wilderness -- it won't be completely clear until the thing is regulated throughout the United States, especially New York -- the new year of a new decade appears poised to shape MMA in a way that would determine the sport's relevance generations from now.
Though it may not seem so on the surface -- what with UFC breaking pay-per-view records, exposure of the sport on network television, rising fighter purses, an ever-growing fan base and increasing media coverage -- MMA remains very much in flux. UFC president Dana White may have prophesied that his company will drive MMA to become the biggest sport in the world by 2020, but there aren't any guarantees its rise will continue at all, let alone at the rate it has since 2005.
Serious issues remain unresolved, and new ones will surely arise. Concerns of oversaturation on American television will be met head on in 2010. The impact of collective bargaining for fighters could begin to play out in a real way. A dire need for competent regulation and judging is underscored each time fighters step in the cage. Expansion of MMA internationally will certainly be a story in the coming year (especially with the UFC planning a major push into Asian markets and governments like China poised to embrace the sport). And on the home front, a promotional war between the UFC and Strikeforce is likely to intensify.
He goes on to detail two specific problems that MMA is facing.
- Oversaturation of the television market. More than 100 live fight cards will be aired in 2010 -- on
Spike TV, HDNet, Showtime, Versus, CBS, Fox Sports and pay-per-view.
-
The UFC's refusal to co-promote means that fights that should have happened, like Randy Couture vs Fedor Emelianenko, didn't and fights that still need to happen, like B.J. Penn vs Shinya Aoki, won't. Instead we'll get B.J. Penn against the likes of Frankie Edgar, Gray Maynard, etc.
These are serious problems and I'm not feeling optimistic. Tell me why I'm wrong in the comments.
Gross comes out strongly in favor of co-promotion. I've long felt that was the future of the sport, but for a minute there in August 2009, it looked like Dana White would prove me wrong by signing Fedor Emelianenko.
Dana missed his moment and for now the UFC has peaked as of UFC 100. Meanwhile the coalition of Strikeforce, CBS/Showtime and DREAM has made the moves they needed to to stay alive.
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The market dynamics of MMA really don’t favor co-promotion. I would like to write something long explaining why in a fan post, but its a long article. The main reason is the UFC gets little by risking a lot and it could really damage there brand. Looking beyond one big fight, it makes zero sense.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
by szucconi on Jan 15, 2010 1:17 PM EST reply actions 9 recs
Yeah, Josh Gross has been saying for years how the sport “cant continue to grow without co-promotion” and for years he has been wrong over and over.
No other promotion in the history of the fight business (including boxing’s long histroy) has been able to put together the best fights like Zuffa has in only a decade.
Strikeforce cant get their own fighters to fight each other and somehow now co-promotion makes sense? Strikeforce cant even make the fights we want to see within their own fucking roster.
People dont fully understand all the benefits Zuffa brings to the table… I sometimes wish the creator of “It’s a wonderful life” could rise from the grave and illustrate what life would be like without Zuffa and without Zuffa’s business practices.
by mmalogic on Jan 15, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
Bout time you showed up to dish out the pw3nings.
Keep firing Assholes!
Melvin Manhoff is my favorite fighter.
by Ubernoober on Jan 15, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I mostly agree with this post
but since I’m a douchebag, I’ll be devils advocate:
- Wanderlei vs. Chuck didn’t happen until way after it was relevant. Likewise with Shogun vs. Chuck.
- Fedor vs. Randy not only didn’t happen, but Dana went out of his way to make sure that nobody got that fight.
- Fedor vs. Brock still hasn’t gone down yet and there’s no hope on the horizon.
- Tito was able to duck Chuck for a damn long time.
- Nog vs Couture also came way after it was relevant. Turned out to be a sick fight anyways, but nobody was clamoring for it at that point.
- Penn vs Aoki needs to happen and likely won’t. Diego got brutally beaten and Edgar is only new in name, so the inevitable brutality isn’t an excuse. Same goes for Penn vs. Alvarez.
- Try as he might, Dana still can’t make Swick-Fitch-Koscheck fight or Anderson vs. Lyoto, with no guarantees about Lil Nog fighting them. Sadly, Fitch vs. Kos and the Black House infighting are some of the best fights to be made.
- There are no credible challengers for GSP at WW… other than Jake Shields, who was ranked #3-5 before he moved up in weight.
These are just off the top of my head, others are encouraged to contribute. Truth be told though, if we put together a list of sick fights that we wanted and got from Dana and Joe Silva, it would dwarf this one. I just like arguing.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
•Wanderlei vs. Chuck didn’t happen until way after it was relevant.
That was PRIDE’s fault, not Zuffa’s.
•Fedor vs. Randy not only didn’t happen, but Dana went out of his way to make sure that nobody got that fight.
How odd Dana didn’t want Randy fighting for another promotion while he still had fights on his contract.
•Fedor vs. Brock still hasn’t gone down yet and there’s no hope on the horizon.
Well it’s not like Zuffa didn’t try like hell to make it happen. They caved on basically every issue but co-promotion, M-1 caved on basically nothing.
•Tito was able to duck Chuck for a damn long time.
So what? They still fought twice while they were both in their prime.
•Nog vs Couture also came way after it was relevant. Turned out to be a sick fight anyways, but nobody was clamoring for it at that point.
Nobody was clamoring for it before either. It was a nice matchup, sure, but it’s not like people were screaming for it.
•Penn vs Aoki needs to happen and likely won’t. Diego got brutally beaten and Edgar is only new in name, so the inevitable brutality isn’t an excuse. Same goes for Penn vs. Alvarez.
BJ would clown these guys and everyone knows it, just because they are the biggest name in the division outside of Zuffa control doesn’t mean the fight “needs” to happen.
•Try as he might, Dana still can’t make Swick-Fitch-Koscheck fight or Anderson vs. Lyoto, with no guarantees about Lil Nog fighting them. Sadly, Fitch vs. Kos and the Black House infighting are some of the best fights to be made.
And what? How is the the UFC’s fault? Would them co-promoting with another promotion change this?
•There are no credible challengers for GSP at WW… other than Jake Shields, who was ranked #3-5 before he moved up in weight.
LMFAO. Did you see Shields’ last fight? You really think he’s a credible challenge to GSP? Just because a guy is the best in his division outside of the UFC (i.e. Shields and Aoki) does NOT mean they offer any sort of real challenge to the dominant champion in that division.
by ufc4 on Jan 15, 2010 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I can’t really add anything to what ufc4 said, but I’d also like to ask- what the hell does AKA and Black House members not wanting to fight each other have to do with co-promotion?
I was responding to this:
No other promotion… has been able to put together the best fights like Zuffa has in only a decade.
Strikeforce cant get their own fighters to fight each other and somehow now co-promotion makes sense? Strikeforce cant even make the fights we want to see within their own fucking roster.
The UFC can’t get their own fighters to fight each other either. I didn’t mention Jardine/Rashad or Nate/GSP or GSP’s reluctance to fight Anderson on account of Nate. And like I said, I was mostly just being argumentative. I don’t see the harm in that, since I explicitly stated it and nobody should accidentally take me too seriously.
To ufc4:
Chuck vs. Wanderlei
Chuck not fighting Wanderlei was Dana and Chuck’s fault. Dana decided to throw him into a tournament convinced he would dominate and get the Wand fight rather than negotiate a direct matchup. Chuck fucked it up by losing.
Randy vs. Fedor
The UFC not only couldn’t put together the fight everyone wanted at the time but then intentionally would not allow it. The fact that it made good business sense isn’t my point, they stopped the fight from being made. And they also couldn’t get Randy to fight within their promotion while he was under contract.
Fedor vs. Brock
Post CBS Fedor vs. Brock with a unified UFC title is easily the biggest fight in MMA. Chuck-Tito III is meaningless. GSP vs. Penn isn’t too intriguing after that beatdown. This is THE fight and the UFC can’t or won’t make it, regardless of the reason. It doesn’t matter if Mayweather or Pacman is at fault, that fight isn’t happening and neither is Brock vs. Fedor.
Chuck vs. Tito
It’s a fight that the UFC couldn’t make happen at the right time: When Chuck was number one contender and Tito had the title. And they fought once in their primes. The second fight came when Tito was already having significant back problems and his athleticism had dropped.
Nog vs. Randy
It used to be a pretty frequent topic. The best HW wrestler vs. the best HW BJJ player. People wanted it, it’s was an outstanding match up in their primes, and it came late. As a result it was a bit less competitive and harder to sell, but still fucking awesome.
Penn vs. Aoki
Penn vs. Aoki for top ranking in lightweight was a discussion being had before the Florian fight. MMA Weekly, who tend to be reputable with their rankings, had BJ ranked below Aoki and Alvarez due to each of their solid streaks and Penn’s inactivity. The UFC has run out of challengers. Edgar has decent striking, no power, good speed, and unremarkable brute strength. At least Alvarez has power in his hands and good offensive boxing, while Aoki is an insane grappler. As I stated below “I’m not using the terms as in "Anderson’s striking is insane!" I mean he’s insane and creative like if Jackson Pollock decided the best medium for his art would be feces.” They are new beautiful things for BJ to destroy, and are higher ranked than any other UFC LW. Either those fights happen or send the prodigy back to WW.
AKA and Black House
See above.
Jake Shields vs. GSP
Yeah I saw his last fight. He dominated positionally but could not finish a guy who is notoriously difficult to finish and naturally a weight class above him. It was no worse than a Jon Fitch fight, who is ranked #2 in the world and actively campaigning for a GSP rematch. I also saw Shields’ fights before Mayhem, where he controlled position beautifully and then sub’d the fuck out of six guys in a row, including a top 10 ranked MW. And he has a 12 fight win streak. It’s likely that GSP crushes him in a similar fashion as he did Fitch, but Shields has a more credible resume than Dan effing Hardy. And just because Shields and Aoki are huge dogs against the champs in their division doesn’t mean they aren’t the most credible fights. GSP and Penn are really fucking good at fighting. Better than everybody else their size. Shields and Aoki are currently more accomplished than anybody else and the most credible challengers.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
PS:
Obviously the UFC has, can, and will do just fine without these fights/fighters. Fedor is the only one who is currently relevant to a business plan rather than a one-off sporting event. There are some LOADED UFC cards coming up, and Joe Silva is the effing man for putting them together. And we can’t forget that Dana pivotal in taking those awesome fights and putting them all on the same card(s). I’ll take a moment right now to thank both of them for their good work and providing us with top quality MMA to watch.
I’m arguing because I’m bored and I could use some brain sparring. I was hoping logic would engage, me and him usually have fun. Or at least I do, can’t speak for him I guess.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
These are some great starting points to bait someone into a debate. Well done. You have become a master baiter pdl.
by John Nash on Jan 16, 2010 3:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Mayweather vs Pacquaio shows how great co-promotion is. Forget it, I’d rather see what we have now than anything what Gross wants.
http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl
by Venom77 on Jan 15, 2010 1:19 PM EST reply actions 24 recs
was going to write the exact same thing
by NinjaCodah on Jan 15, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Totally agree
I read the original article and was so disgusted i wanted to write a fan post, but just didn’t have the time.
He basically argues that more big fights would get made because of co-promotion, but in the sport with co-promotion we see that fights DON’T get made…Also the only fight that we really “Need” to see with Co-promotion is Fedor whoever…Maybe Moussasi could get to that point, but right now it seems like we get most of the fights we want which we don’t get in boxing…
If this was boxing I bet Machida would dodge a rematch with Shogun.
by SES 84 on Jan 15, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
way to screw up the patch of green ninjajerk.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Please don't rec Me.
Im cereal!!!!!!11111
by NinjaRehab on Jan 15, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I really think that Gross wants to kill MMA as a sport with his ideas. Like if he had his way and ran all the promotions, he’d murder the sport. Kinda like how Isiah Thomas murdered the CBA.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 11 recs
If Josh Gross ran the UFC, he would run it into the ground.
We have seen how well co-promotion works with Alistair Overeem and Strikeforce. It just doesn’t.
The UFC puts on more big fights then any other MMA organization ever has. They do a better job then boxing. And why? Because they don’t co-promote.
by Timmy B on Jan 15, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
If Josh Gross ran the UFC first thing he’d do is Co Promote with the Yakuza then write an article about how copromotion is a good thing…then write another about how the UFC is in business with the Yakuza…you know, cause he can’t help but write negative stories about the UFC.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I’m just gonna comment right here and hope I get some green
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This is the most green I’ve seen in a single discussion this site.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Theres more green here than has gone through Nick Diaz’s bong. Well, theres a lot anyway.
by brad23 on Jan 15, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I’ve done my part to fix it.
Keep firing Assholes!
Melvin Manhoff is my favorite fighter.
by Ubernoober on Jan 15, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
DAMMIT this was EPIC and you ruined it.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jan 15, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Oversaturation
Has been worrying me for a long time. Even as a hardcore fan sometimes there is just always a fight on and because I HAVE to watch the fights I feel like I don’t have time for other things. Sports need an offseason to stay relevant, imo.
I don’t think co-promotion makes any sense, it’s a harebrained and short-sighted idea.
by Chris Barton on Jan 15, 2010 1:19 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
are you a baseball fan?
bc that sport is extremely Over-saturated and everyone in the business of baseball is getting filthy rich
watchkalibrun.com
by Zak Woods on Jan 15, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Well...
how are we determining when something is OVER saturated?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 15, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I think there is an assumption that cause there will be 100+ cards on tv, everyone will watch all 100+ cards. This isn’t the case though. Most people will tune into the UFN/TUF Finals/CBS/UFC PPVs but skip over the stuff on HDnet and Foxsports…so in reality its more like 40 cards a year (this is a high estimate) which isn’t really all that bad.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Oversaturation isn't the problem.
I love the amount of cards we get. The issue as I see it would be if the amount of cards results in a lack of quality and I don’t think that’s the case. There are low quality events, but it has nothing to do with cards becoming diluted.
by rask4p on Jan 15, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Over 100 cards sounds like a lot, until you realize that it’s a bit less than two a week. Many of which are on non-entity networks, like HDNet and Versus. How many cards will be on network tv, or even network tv and basic cable? That would be the measure of oversaturation, not the amount of cards you would have to go out of your way to even know about, much less watch. Oversaturation occurs when you can’t get away from something; see Hootie and the Blowfish or something like that. Not when you have to seek it out. Also, it’s just a sign of how small the sport is that people still feel like they have to watch every card—- nobody expects any major sport’s fans to keep track of, much less watch, every single game that occurs in football or baseball.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
by toxic on Jan 15, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
some green pl
finally a subject where we all agree , Well most of us.
by #1 piggy on Jan 15, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Baseball
Has an offseason and it still feels oversaturated. I don’t know much about the business of baseball so I can’t talk very intelligently about it.
by Chris Barton on Jan 15, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Nate, I like your writings but this seems to be based on negativity that Gross has towards Zuffa. I think we can all be honest and say that he’s never and will never be in Zuffa’s court so his articles will always end up showing so sort of negative bias.
I think you need to figure that while Dream/Sengoku/Strikeforce all have some good fighters, there is too much for Zuffa to lose and nothing to gain by co-promoting.
Over saturation I don’t think you can say is that big of a deal. Majority of people don’t have HDnet and if they do have it, I’m assuming that those who have it are at least knowledgeable to know that there is MMA outside of the US. If there were 4 UFC PPVs a month I’d say that over saturation was a problem. But having a UFN ever 3/4 months and a PPV a month, I don’t think really is a big deal. Strikeforce’s deal with CBS is great, but a pay channel like Showtime means that those who are actually tuning in want to watch MMA and I don’t think that limits their interest.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 1:24 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Oversaturation of the television market. More than 100 live fight cards will be aired in 2010
thats roughly an event every other 4 days.. as long its one PPV per month.. im all for it..
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Jan 15, 2010 1:24 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
How thoughtful. And you quote Rand? There’s no virtue in that selfishness.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jan 15, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I think I am somehow supporting each event by watching them. If I could pay more than $50 in a month for ententainment, i’ll be happy to do so.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Jan 15, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I love this part
When the writers at BE take to the board and start pissing on those who disagree with the article.
by theplague on Jan 15, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 12 recs
Notice Luke/staff, didn’t go after me when I was the first to disagree? Get a brain.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
by szucconi on Jan 15, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Congratulations?
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
by funnytiger on Jan 15, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I like the part where people start pissing on the staff for made up reasons better myself.
by Phildo on Jan 15, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
rah rah rah the staff is dumb! rah rah rah!!!
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It’s the short, snide remarks that reflect poorly on the staff. I’m not referring to anyone or any post in particular, but I’m sure they can work it out amongst themselves. I’ve never had those comments directed at me, but it always bothers me to see it on BE. On other sites I expect it.
by cmsove on Jan 15, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
To be fair, in this case it's more than justified because
fuck Ayn Rand. Seriously.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 15, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
whoa fuck Ayn Rand?! I respect Luke’s comment “There’s no virtue in that selfishness” w/c is true.. but fuck Ayn Rand?
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Jan 15, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Is there virtue in any kind of selfishness?
by JConcerto on Jan 15, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Yes, sorry dont want to go preaching philosophy on an MMA post.
f*ck to those who say f*ck to objectivism.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
We aren't talking about philosophy
we are talking about Ayn Rand. The two are not related in any way other than being printed with ink on paper.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 15, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Absolutely yes. This is coming from an economics standpoint, not from a philosophical standpoint.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 15, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
Especially cause this includes HDnet showing MFC/Dream/Sengoku and FoxSports showing Bellator…in reality there are maybe 25 UFC events and 20 Strikeforce events in the year. I think thats even a super high estimate. UFC will probably do 20 and Strikeforce will end up doing 20 if you include the Challengers.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
UFC will do more, Strikeforce will be luck to do 10.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
Is that an educated guess or wishful thinking?
by scrambledeggs on Jan 15, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
well last year the Zuffa did 15 UFC PPVs (numbered events) 3 Fight Nights, 2 TUF finals plus 8 WEC events.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
What point are you trying to make? Are you replying to the right person.
by scrambledeggs on Jan 15, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
nope…didn’t reply to the right person. But last year strikeforce did 10 events. They haven’t started the new year yet (January 30th) and they may lose steam with lack of headliners for their big cards (CBS/Showtime non challengers), szucconi may actually be correct with his 10 event guess.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Well, UFC is contracted to do a certain number for spike and they do PPV once a month, so they will get over 20. Strikeforce doing about 10 is wishful thinking. They have a small roster and small outlet. They are on showtime and showtime doesn’t want an event every month. CBS wants even fewer. Looks like 4 major cards and 4 challenger cards. But just a guess.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
Who at Showtime told you they don’t want an event every month?
Strikeforce has a deal for 16 events a year between Showtime and CBS.
They’ll have more than 10 events in 2010.
by scrambledeggs on Jan 15, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe they can co-promote with Affliction and sign Josh Barnett?
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
by szucconi on Jan 15, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We just heard similar statements from EXC early last year and right after there first CBS card. “We will have lots of shows”, then they just didn’t happen. They don’t have the depth. Use there current rate of having shows to extrapolate the show count. One this month, one slated for April maybe, May also talked about. Thats 3 in Five months. Maybe they will sneak a card in between headlined by Kim Couture, but its still not what they are promising.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
by szucconi on Jan 15, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Again, you are totally misinformed. They’re talking about doing Challengers shows in February and March, and then an April CBS card. That is four shows in four months.
Yeah, I don’t know much about when they plan to do Challengers shows, but I am hopeful. Aside from Kim Couture, who is really tough, but should not be headlining even a Challengers card, they are decent.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
Stop stating facts smoogy! You are confusing everyone!
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 15, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, co-main, its still a sad
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
Coker recently said ...
After the Olympics they’ll do a challenger event every 6 weeks and at least one Showtime card a month and two in some months.
by Johnnynumber5 on Jan 15, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I recently said I will be having sex with a virgin every 6 weeks and atleast 1 stripper a month and two in some months.
Saying stuff is fun.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just answering someones question with the only information available in terms of SF scheduling in 2010.
http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/01/14/scott-coker-discusses-herschel-walkers-debut-shinya-aoki-cbs/
Whether it comes to pass is another issue entirely but thats what they are planning.
by Johnnynumber5 on Jan 15, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Its reality
There is nothing. From having enough fighters to the overall organizational abilities and marketing power of strikeforce to suggest they can do more 4 or 5 big events a year, and I think they will be lucky to do that.
by SimplePsych on Jan 15, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They have enough stars to fill two major cards within the same time window. Then they have to wait for them to heal up to be ready to fight again. If they did 10 major shows then they would have a real problem with matchmaking and who would be left to fight who. That many shows is not worth the risk. A 108 type curse/bomb, would sink them. If Showtime or CBS had a card do 20% of what was expected, they pull the plug.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
The reality is that someone at CBS corporation has made a commitment to giving mma a try. Be it someone with Showtime, CBS network, or even there InDemand, they want this to work. Strikeforce doesn’t go out and sign Fedor, Hendo, Lashley, and maybe Huerta, Arlovski, and Barnett, without someone there giving them a commitment but also some investment. From a synergy point of view, it makes a lot of sense to try and get mma working with the CBS Corporation.
Right now Strikeforce has about 40 main card caliber fighters on it’s roster; Fedor, Mousasi, Hendo, Diaz, Shields, Riggs, Manhoef, Lawlor, Le, Melendez. Noons, Santos, Carano, Smith etc. If they can get 2 fights out of each them that is 40 fights for the year. They are not the UFC booking good undercards or 6 fight main cards, They need to put together 4 fights for a CBS card and 5 for a showtime. If they do 4 CBS shows and 8 Showtime they will have 56 fight to fill. Not quit there yet but doable.
People like to point out their lack of roster hurting them on their last two events because they couldn’t find a fighter for Lawlor at the last minute, but it also showed that their bigger problem was lack of events for their fighters. Galvao, Noons, Ribeiro, and Brett Rogers were all looking for a fight. If they had another card in that span that could have placed all those fighters and the Hieron/Riggs fight on the main card and made another event. This is what we’ll get next year an event every month where they are probably moving fights up and back a month to try and cover up for injuries.
It’s going to get ugly with Strikeforce. The company organization is probably going to be overwhelmed at times, but people shouldn’t write it off as impossible just because they want to see another competitor to the UFC fold.
These are all good points, but I think, maybe your numbers are off. I think 40 main card fighters is slightly high unless you are counting more then just who stikeforce had under a deal and not Dream guys or Bellator guys that will be tied up. Then you are expecting there to be matches for everyone and the numbers to work out when there stars are different weights/sexes. It might, but it is just as easy for one of these stars to take a fight in Japan too close to a booking and be unavailable or just not ever being ready to fight in the states (Aoki, AO). Cung Le might not fight at all in 2010. The main problem with a roster so thin is risk of it all unraveling. Having nothing on the under card means nothing to promote. at some point they need to grow some stars.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
We’ll take one weight class – welterweight: Marius Zaromskis, Nick Diaz, Andre Galvao, Tyron Woodley, Joe Riggs, Jay Heiron,
If they can get two fights out of each of these six fighters, you’ll have six fights filled for next year. Multiple this by six for each weight class and the women’s division and you have 36 fights filled. This doesn’t include bringing in hayato sakurai, or Gono, or Hornbuckle, or Nick Thompson, or signing Karo or having Shields drop down to 170 or having Evangelista Santos fight on a main card.
The unraveling part is what will be the issue. I predict a lot of scrambling and a lot of 4 fight Showtime cards over the next year. But that doesn’t change the fact that I think it can be done,
Sure, I don’t disagree that is can be done. But they are walking a tightrope. Things really have to work out for them from a roster standpoint and a ratings standpoint. It has to be a perfect storm of awesomeness for them to do what they are saying they are going to do.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
by szucconi on Jan 15, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not to be contrary, but I follow a lot of MMA and I couldn’t tell you anything about Andre Galvao or Tyron Woodley. Jay Heiron isn’t well known at all, either.
I mean I guess you could have one of those guys headline a Strikeforce: Challengers event, because they seem to just have pretty much whoever topline those, but I doubt any of those guys I mentioned are bringing in anyone outside of their immediately family to watch on TV.
by Jason H. on Jan 15, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t expect those guys to headline, but they could easily fill in the third or fourth spot on the main card. Most fans watching UFC 100 had no clue who Belcher or Akiyama were. They were the first fight of the night to excite the more hardcore fans and to introduce and build up future fighters to the masses. It is the same reason Hollywood will put a Shia Labeouf in the last Indiana Jones movie or the first Transformers (both dreadful, dreadful movies by the way). Because there is buzz around them and they want to now see if they’ll catch on with the masses.
Actually the better example would be why does Hollywood cast J.K. Simmons or John Hurt in a movie when most people have no clue who they are? Because, besides the fact they can act, they add an aura of legitimacy and quality to a product. But they are not expected to have their name above the title.
shout out for J.K. Simmons, big fan. i wish he was my uncle
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
i like John Hurt. Midnight Express is a great movie.
but i am a judgmental prick
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
When will people give up on co-promotion???
by MMAWrestling on Jan 15, 2010 1:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
i really think it would be in MMA’s best interest for co-promotion. i still think the MMA scene will shake out to where the UFC is on top, and a smaller promotion will still be watched by most of us, but they wont pay big bucks for top talent. in my personal opinion, that is whats best for the sport.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
That’s nothing to do with co-promotion, though. That’s fine by everyone….you need minor leagues so guys can ready up for the big leagues.
Basically, this “co-promotion” idea is like a minor league baseball team having one star home run hitter, and instead of him drafting up to the majors, they decide that the majors have to draft their WHOLE TEAM and not just the one guy who’s outgrown the minors.
by Jason H. on Jan 15, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
never...
There will always be at least one guy out there that the UFC doesn’t have under contract who presents a more interesting challenge than those who are available.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 15, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And Aoki presents a more interesting challenge to Penn than the guys in the UFC? Not to me he doesn’t.
by ufc4 on Jan 15, 2010 2:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 9 recs
he presents a more interesting beat-down
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Truth, and he will cry afterward.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
by szucconi on Jan 15, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I’d pay to see BJ beat him down, then flip him off and lick his blood off his gloves after.
by ufc4 on Jan 15, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Holy crap, now you're talking
You’re making me want to support the UFC co-promoting just to witness that.
This is why Co-Promotion needs to happen.
To make asskickings that we really want to happen possible.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
You’ll be waiting a long time if you want the UFC to co-promote to get guys like Aoki. There’s nothing stopping them from just signing them once their contracts are up if the UFC really wants them that badly.
Yeah... there's a huge hurdle.
It’s called nationalism, or Japanese pride. Offer whatever you want, Sakuraba isn’t going to end up in the UFC unless there is NO Japanese MMA promotion at all. And even then, it’s iffy. The only way to get certain fighters to fight in Strikeforce/UFC is as a representative of their other promotion and by extension, their nation.
Plus, you know, ’roids.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I get the feeling that if Dana said copromotion was good this whole discussion wouldn’t be taking place. The blind loyalty is amazing
by KING FEDOR on Jan 15, 2010 3:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
because none of us can have an opinion?
Many of us disagree with the idea that co-promotion will work based on relevant attempts i.e. UFC sending fighters to Pride, while Pride never returned the favor, or Overeem not fighting in SF for 2 years…. lets not forget Boxing in this whole thing either.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on Jan 15, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You’re allowed to have an opinion, but it must be your own original opinion, which means it can’t be the same as Dana’s. if you agree with Dana, you are just a zuffa nuthugger. But if you have the same opinion as everyone that hates Dana, you are a super original thinker and should be praised.
by Phildo on Jan 15, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
“Yes! Yes! We’re all individuals!”
“I’m not.”
by Jason H. on Jan 15, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and one guy is reason enough
to sacrifice an entire business? We hear a lot about how UFC has peaked, or what they need to do, but I don’t think anyone really offers any real reason why they should pursue something like co-promotion. Its not as if the UFC would rely on other companies furthering the sport through legislation, or because they provide monetary assistance, or because they have a wealth of the best fighters in the world… They don’t need them for television deals, or exposure (at least in the states)…. So what reason should they do this?
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on Jan 15, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Besides getting a few select fighters, the UFC really doesn’t need to co-promote especially since the UFC has the majority of the top MMA fighters and is making huge profits already. Fedor is the main talking point when talking about co-promotion, and I have to wonder if the idea of the UFC co-promoting will still be around when/if Fedor retires or starts losing fights.
Maybe I’m really off here, but I see co-promotion as the first step to MMA becoming more like boxing.
Personally, as much as I would love to see Fedor vs Lesnar, I would be disappointed if, in the aftermath of that fight, Fedor took other deals and didn’t fight in the UFC again. I’m sure a UFC monopoly isn’t the best thing for fighters, but as a greedy fan, I think it might be the best thing to guarantee me the best fights.
I’m more concerned about over-saturation. My wife used to love sitting down to watch a PPV on a Saturday night….until the last 6 months or so. It just doesn’t seem that special to her anymore between there being so many fights and so many of them having weak main events.
by McEwen on Jan 15, 2010 1:27 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Co-promotion solves the oversaturation problem
By co promoting, the biggest fights that the fans and others want get made.
The result is that you have fewer meaningless fights and better clashes that stand out.
The leagues and franchises that cannot do this and adapt will die out. The winners will stand and order will be restored to the marketplace.
This year could also see the importance of brands (ufc, wec etc.) dying down. I predict the emergence of the free agent fighter, who can pick fights under different promotions enabling all promotions to draw from a large talent pool and even market share out.
How much would this help the UFC
I mean how many fighters outside the UFC would really have been useful in fleshing out the poor UFC cards??
I think it would help the smaller promotions, but at the cost of having big fights not get made (ala boxing) I don’t want that.
by SES 84 on Jan 15, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Outside of the UFC, there's plenty
Outside of Zuffa, there’s about a handful. Alvarez, Aoki, Monson, Kawajiri, Santiago, Mousasi, Fedor, Rogers (he’s shockingly marketable), Zaromskis, Nick Diaz, Jake Shields, Robbie Lawler, Mayhem, Hornbuckle, Misaki… that’s most of what I get off the top of my head. There’s more if you get the UFC to pick up womens divisions, with Cyborg, Toughill, Carano, Kerry Vera, Marloes Coenen, Tara LaRosa…
Basically, if the UFC could sign all the main card worthy fighters in the world, not including prospects that might need time, seasoning, or builder fights, I think they’d expand their roster by maybe 10-15%. There’s people out there that they would like, but not enough to make co-promotion a viable strategy.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
This would increase the pay scale. I can’t believe anyone could be against this but Dana
by KING FEDOR on Jan 15, 2010 4:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Who has paid more than zuffa and still exists?
by Phildo on Jan 15, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
If you took the headliners from any Strikeforce card that aren’t Fedor and put them as headliners on a UFC card, people would consider it a horrible injustice that it was on PPV and would refuse to buy it.
Guys who are title contenders in Strikeforce are only that because of the organization’s lack of talent….you think Robbie Lawler wouldn’t rather be contending for the 185lb title in UFC? Would anyone in the world think it was a reasonable match to put him in with Anderson Silva?
This is a perfect example of a halo effect…..Fedor is there, which adds legitimacy, and by association people are overstating the true relevance or legitimacy of the other titles in that org.
Don’t get me wrong, I love watching Strikeforce and they put on good fights. But fact of the matter is there’s a reason their guys aren’t fighting in the UFC. And outside of the crazy foreign managers expecting too much or tricking their guys into shady deals, it’s because they just don’t have what it takes to be champions there.
Jay Heiron even came out and said he was going to strikeforce because he thought he had a better shot at the title. And people are clamoring for Heiron-Diaz for the title….if either of those guys were challenging for a title in UFC, people would foam at the mouth saying how retarded it was.
by Jason H. on Jan 15, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The missed Fedor opportunity
I think Josh Gross writes a great, thought-provoking article, and you add some additional great questions Nate.
I want to zoom in for a moment on the ‘missed Fedor Emelianenko’ opportunity. I believe the jury is still out on how this will impact the sport. In one scenario, it’s entirely possible that Fedor soon loses a couple of fights… and his mystique.
I don’t think that the mystique will necessarily transfer over to the person who beats him (let’s say it’s Overeem, or perhaps Rogers in a rematch).
Basically, I’m not convinced that the ‘missed Fedor opportunity’ will be looked at as that seminal of an event a few years from now.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
well the thing is
Fedor is going to lose eventually.
If he lost in the UFC the linear championship would once again be the UFC heavyweight title — for the first time since the late 1990s.
At that point they’d have the linear champion in each division and could have truly become and remained THE major leagues of MMA. That moment passed. If Fedor wins his remaining Strikeforce fights and comes to UFC they might get a 2nd bite at the apple.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Hmm yes but I think that the ‘linear champion’ issue is of more importance to historians and close observers of the sport. And not necessarily of importance to the vast majority of fans and casual observers, and therefore not as important to the growth of the UFC.
Had Rogers beaten Fedor, I suspect that very few would anoint him the true or linear champ, and instead the easy path would be to say “well, Lesnar is the true champ now, Fedor wouldn’t have been able to hang in the UFC anyway.” Certainly that would be the line that the UFC would use and should they repeat it enough… people believe it and the rest is history.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
Brock Lesnar, Anderson Silva, BJ Penn, Jose Aldo, and Brian Bowles are not the linear champions of their division. That hasn’t stopped people from universally recogniziing 4 out of 5 of them as the #1 fighters in their weight classes….
linear titles mean nothing in MMA.
by Timmy B on Jan 15, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i don’t think they mean nothing, but i hear you. i think it depends on the circumstances.
in the case of Fedor, i think the linear title means a lot… until he loses. right now i recognize Fedor as the “true” champion. but if he had lost to Rogers in November, i’d have to then say that i recognize Lesnar as the true champ, not Rogers (sorry brett).
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
Josh Gross ripping on ZUFFA??? Well I NEVER...!!!!!!!
Sounds like he’s still pissy about covering big events from his living room.
Gimme a break, the UFC would be stupid to do co-promotion.
The fact that Nate gives credit to Strikeforce and Dream for simply staying alive tells you a lot about the business of MMA outside of the UFC.
by SidHartman on Jan 15, 2010 1:31 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
Are you insinuating that Gross wrote this piece to take a shot at Zuffa? You’ve got to be kidding.
by scrambledeggs on Jan 15, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, he takes shots in just about every other piece he writes.
by SidHartman on Jan 15, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I've said that Co-Promotion is the way to go for a while.
I even drunkenly typed an argument for it NYE. It’s what needs to happen, otherwise the talent pool for the UFC turns into a mud puddle.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jan 15, 2010 1:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Your gonna have to substantiate this?
UFC puts their name on an event and it brings in more revenue…So at the end of the day the UFC can pay the best fighters the most…What’s the motivation to be outside the UFC then?? Especially once investors are no longer willing to try and break the UFC stranglehold.
The UFC might not realize this, but collective bargaining could actually help them by giving fighters a more fair revenue split and then really making other promotions irrelevant.
The UFC does not co-promote. They are now the most succesful MMA promotion in history and other than a recent raodbump are only going to contunue growing.
Why should they change?
Keep firing Assholes!
Melvin Manhoff is my favorite fighter.
by Ubernoober on Jan 15, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
People need to stop with the talk of oversaturation. How many football, baseball or basketball games are televised every year and people keep watching. You will absolutely get to a point where it is not feasible to watch every single mma event, but that in no way equates to oversaturation.
by Niles on Jan 15, 2010 1:49 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
At this moment the UFC (Zuffa) does not need to co-promote and it would be foolish for them to do so. UFC = MMA in the minds of most fans and they are trying to do everything possible to make that link permanent. That is why Strikeforce is such a threat to them. Not because they can eventually overtake them or threaten their position in the sport, but because they offer an option to a large body of viewers that they can watch mma that isn’t branded UFC.
If Strikeforce can survive and grow enough to capture, maybe 30% of the market then the UFC will be forced to co-promote, because not only will their fans be demanding to see it, but their star fighters will be lured away by big payday superfights.
by John Nash on Jan 15, 2010 1:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think the Strikeforce and Dream need to get much much bigger to get UFC to co-promote. What value does Strikeforce have once Fedor is beaten/retired/gone? The Penn/Aoki match up isn’t impossible. Pretty much every relevent MMA star not in the UFC could go to the UFC once their contracts end. Yes the ones that were exiled from the UFC won’t be coming back but no one thats a true contenter fall in that category. Diaz would be the closest if the weed issue got his open invitation closed. He’s not a contender for the title just an entertaining fighter.
I hate how boxing titles are organized. People want a real unified title system. Having separate promotions limits the top contenders competing for a true champion. In this current state the only relevant titles are arguably all in the UFC. If the fighters themselves want to truly be considered the champ in their class they can do so now in the UFC. If they can’t win a title in their current promotion then they really don’t have an argument for being a true contender. Fedor is the only one make that argument, he is one of the greatest legends in the sport but once he is gone I don’t really see a problem with the remaining non UFC fighters not being able to challenge a UFC champ.
by YoungGun on Jan 15, 2010 1:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If Fedor did sign this summer with the UFC (which I wanted him to do), the pressure for him to fight Lesnar immediately would have been huge, and it wouldn’t have gone off anyway due to this illness. In the interim, you’d have to risk Fedor vs. the up and comers or give him a vet like Nog (worth putting on another rematch?) or Mir (coming off his loss). I’m glad we got something competitive in the Rogers fight rather than Fedor/Couture. Even while split, all of the healthy fighters fought in good matchups which is all you can really ask for. The UFC did lose out on a potential headliner, but that’s their own problem.
Not sure what the big deal is about Aoki. Just because Penn is presumed to be able to beat Edgar/Maynard easily, why is Aoki a superior option? I’d pick both Edgar and Maynard to beat him handily.
In time, the UFC will manage to gather the top fighters. Co-promotion isn’t that necessary in the long run, and is actually worse for fans than one mega-promotion holding most of the top fighters – the main positive for fans is more 5-round fights.
by bigweeze on Jan 15, 2010 1:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Why do we need to have MMA as the biggest sport in the world?
Aside from fighter’s health insurance and the “non-star” paycheks, I’m happy w/ what we have right now.
I know I’m pretty alone w/ this, but I really dont want to have MMA on TV everyday. It removes the anticipation of an event. We can never have an off season for MMA like basketball and football, 100 fight cards in a year seems to be enough to satisfy my MMA needs.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Co-promotion never works in the long run
Someone always gets greedy and tries to screw over their partner.
Nobody in the business has ever been able to keep a co-promotion agreement viable for more than a year or two.
by Steve4192 on Jan 15, 2010 1:55 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Meanwhile the coalition of Strikeforce, CBS/Showtime and DREAM has made the moves they needed to to stay alive.
Where have heard this before?
Oh yeah, it was when people said the same thing about EliteXC, CBS/Showtime, Strikeforce, KOTC, Cage Rage, ICON and SpiritMC all working together in perfect harmony. They were building a superb farm system to develop talent, had a kick ass set of broadcast deals, and had seasoned combat sports promoters (Shaw, Trebilcock, Penn, Thompson) at the helm. ProElite was going to be a serious force in the MMA business for years to come.
by Steve4192 on Jan 15, 2010 2:01 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
Dana was right...
All these naysayers like Gross want to critique and point out the problems instead of actually trying to help and grow the sport. There are officiating problems in every level of every sport. The USFL came and went, so did the ABA, so will many MMA promotions. In 10 years BJ, Fedor, Aoki probably, wont be relevant fighters so their match ups wont matter. The UFC will be in line withe the NFL, NBA, Etc.
Quite complaining, get on board and enjoy the growth, its happening regardless.
Forward Ever, Backward Never...
by Tony NJ on Jan 15, 2010 2:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions 8 recs
I’m rec’ing for two reasons…1. I think you’ve made a good point and 2. cause you’re from Jersey and NEW JERSEY IS IN THE BUILDING!
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
I pity people from jersey. I also pump my own gas.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
I pity people who don’t wake up to the beach. I also can pump my own gas.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
You can, but the state doesn’t trust you too.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
yep and the state has some of the least expensive gas prices on the east coast. I’m at $2.35 a gallon. And I don’t need to leave my car when it’s cold out. I’d say I win this round Mr. Szucconi
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t live in Jersey, check and mate. I love to hate on Jersey, its a good time. Any “Jersey Shore” fans in the house?
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
Maryland, near Baltimore. Not very awesome, but its not Jersey. Seriously though, I am joking.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
better be or i’ll swim just start pelting you with e-crabcakes
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
there are very nice parts to Jersey, away from all the industrial areas. my school is in mid- to south- Jersey close to PA and its a nice area. but it ain’t the south…
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Right here, son.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jan 15, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
im a fan of jersey shore, I dont like MIke though ,( the situation) . Would like to see Vinny knock his ass out. Or anybody, but i guess that is why i am a fan, cuz u hope to see someone sock him lol.
Big fan of DJ Paulie D on the ones and twos
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
by criticizing and pointing out problems, you are helping the sport.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Only if the problems are actually problems, rather than just one guy bitching.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 15, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Who is this “Joss Gross” fellow anyway?
by ufc4 on Jan 15, 2010 2:42 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Didn’t he create Buffy the Vampire Slayer???
by SidHartman on Jan 15, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The sky is falling!
I am certain all the free cards on HDNet are going to affect the PPV buy rates of the UFC cards. Once you’ve seen Adrenaline II live, there’s no need to purchase UFC 111 or 112.
by Hardcharger on Jan 15, 2010 2:42 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
1 – Never a need for UFC to co-promote. If Strikeforce must do so to impressively “stay alive” so be it….
2 – No such thing as over saturation of MMA. As previously pointed out, not everyone is watching all 100 cards. The UFC stars of tomorrow are just now entering regional MMA promotions that will air repeatedly on regional networks.
3 – Let’s not overstate the burning desire of the masses for BJ Penn vs. Shinya Aoki. Yes we are all disappointed that Fedor/Randy never happened and Fedor/Brock probably never will. But Penn/Aoki? Yes, very compelling but I’m not losing one wink of sleep if it never happens. Jose Aldo will put on 10 pounds soon enough…..
4 – Zucconi better stop Jersey bashing or there are going to be some problems up in here….
by BrothersGottaAndyHug on Jan 15, 2010 2:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
4 – Zucconi better stop Jersey bashing or there are going to be some problems up in here….
Agreed.
Me and mah boyz have heard enough …
by Steve4192 on Jan 15, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Dammit…where’s Phildo to help with defending Jersey…or even Robert Downey Sr.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Was it the gas pumping that enraged you folks?
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
by szucconi on Jan 15, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
ARHGFHSD:LGJGHGH ok you win this round szuc
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I got your back bro ...
and I’ve got my swole on.
Ok so this makes me laugh every time. I grew up with a guy, wrestled with him in HS, he popped my eardrum in practice. Bodybuilding was his hobby when he wasn’t cutting 50lbs to get under 140. He moved to NJ and got really big. Did some pro bodybuilding I think. The following quote is his “about me” on facebook. It makes me laugh every time.
So here I am, a guy raised on a farm with pigs and cows in the mountians of Maryland. I take up this weird sport of bodybuilding and become obsessed with myself, and then accept a job and move to New York. My country lovin’, jean and t-shirt wearing ass stuck out like a whore in church. I resisted the temptation to convert to this sub culture of glow sticks and techno, but alas, the other day I found myself listening to “World, hold on” while pumping my fist in between meetings. I’ve taken on the wife beater and Gucci shades as a look and have completely forgotten the ways of Kenny Chesney. I find myself taking pride in the freaky veins in my arms and checking out rich Italian bitches with beamers and god awful accents. I can no longer fight the hunger within…I am now Jersey trash. God have mercy on my soul.
Update I pulled up to get gas in another state and threatened to beat up the attendant because he wasn’t pumping my gas, not realizing it was a self service station. It was then that I needed to take a step back and look at myself. As I rested my tired arm from a 100 mile drive of fist pumping and sugar free red bull, I contemplated leaving this filthy state full of smoke stacks and oil refineries. The allure of choking mets games and pathetic jets games was fading. But it’s too late. I’m already knee deep in Jersey rubbish. I came to the sad conclusion; it’s an abusive relationship. This state beats me down everyday I wake up, yet I keep coming back enthusiastically for more. I’m basking in the armpit of America, and I love it my Jersey. And Jersey loves me. God bless the sweet smell by exit 14B.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
by szucconi on Jan 15, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
great stuff indeed...."100 mile drive of fist pumping".....
….I’m not sure why real NJ people are so annoyed with “jersey shore” it’s just so obvious that so few of the idiots on that show are actually from the Jersey Shore….should have been named “Jersey Shore-Belmar Summer House” and everything would have been fine….
/never watched 1 episode, but that’s my take….
by BrothersGottaAndyHug on Jan 15, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
rec’d for hilarity and truth
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Dude has a point though, the pride I have in my state may be because we’re the underdog but I can’t picture living anywhere else. I’ve lived in Boston and Seattle and Austin and returned.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
i feel you man. it’s like when i have to defend the Georgia public school system…
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
oh well now you’re just being ridiculous.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jersey Shore makes it hard. I used to be of the attitude that I’m allowed to make fun of NJ because I’m from NYC and everywhere else sucks. But the current combo of me living in NJ and Jersey shore has caused me to give up the battle, you’re on your own.
like the kearny/harrison area? used to live on kearny ave for 6 months.
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
i just arrived to the show. it took a while to get to the Jersey-bashing what with the civil war up above
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
i’m scared. that gelled up hair could impale me
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I watch every single ufc card, wec card,strikeforce card, dream and segoku event, and also every other live event on hdnet fights, and i still cant get enough. It iseems hard to beleive there is a live event and average of every 4 days. Would love to see something like Ufc fight night every wed, similar to what boxing had years ago.
With regards to the first point
(and without knowing if another commenter has mentioned this above) the over-saturation problem strikes me as not such a big deal. At this point there’s still relatively few fights on broadcast TV. Those viewers (i.e. the very casual) are the ones I’d be most concerned about blasting with a ton of fights. These people already aren’t seeking out the WEC fights on versus or UFC on Spike or Strikeforce on Showtime.
Those individuals who are fans (the area I consider myself) are likely already somewhat selective of what they watch. I’m not going out and buying Showtime to watch Strikeforce and I’m not buying every PPV that comes up. I watch a lot of Versus and UFC on Spike and I’ll buy PPVs with fights where I feel invested in.
Beyond that, you have hardcore fans (likely what most of this blog compromises). I’m skeptical that people here feel “over-saturated”. Despite complaints about lame PPV cards and the like many of those core fans still buy them. They still watch second rate fight night events on Spike. I’m not sure that additional fights on TV is going to substantially alter that.
I also think the verdict is still out on Strikeforce’s long term viability. If that promoter fold, like Affliction, then you’ll have downtick in projected fights. Even then, I wonder if this is really a problem. There are how many football games a weekend? There are how many baseball games on any given night during that season? It’s too early to be concerned that the market is maxed out, imo.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Reading some of the comments on here are amazing.
But reading the comments makes it less surprising as to why Dana White can make absurd ridiculous comments and he’s still worshiped by his fan base.
They’ll believe and defend just about anything the guy says.
These same fans for some reason take a comment like Aoki vs Penn is a more appealing fight than Penn against any of the current crop of UFC lightweights as a personal attack on them. It’s mind boggling.
You are a nut huggin anti- nut hugger, and honestly, PLEASE tell me what, if anything, Aoki can bring to a fight with BJ besides his name. PLEASE.
by Austin Martin on Jan 15, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
simple
he’s the #2 ranked fighter in the world. Penn is likely on an entirely different level and would crush him, but Aoki wouldn’t be bringing the same stale boxing/wrestling combo to the cage that Penn eats for breakfast. Aoki would turn it into a grappling match or get KO’d trying.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jan 15, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I don’t like Aoki’s chances in a grappling match against a guy who has better BJJ and 15 pounds on him.
by ufc4 on Jan 15, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But is his
- ranking a product of over exposure? Or maybe that in the UFC you fight top competition EVERY time? So while Ken Flo is fighting tough people taking wins and losses, Aoki is being fed sub par fighters and moving up that way?
by Riney on Jan 15, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Subpar?
Since 2008 he has fought Gesias Calvancante, Caol Uno, Joachim Hansen, Eddie Alvarez, Vitor Ribeiro, and Mizuto Hirota at LW and is expected to fight Tatsuya Kawajiri and Gilbert Melendez next year. How is he being fed sub par fighters?
I guess you’re missing the point but I’m not surprised.
My point wasn’t that Aoki is going to kick any one’s ass my point is when someone has the opinion that they’d rather see Aoki vs. Penn than Penn vs. Edgar or Maynard UFC Fans get in an uproar as if you just insulted a family member. It’s ridiculous.
by scrambledeggs on Jan 15, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
i’m not missing any point. You’d rather see Penn in a grappling match than a sloppy standup fight. Oh wait, remember when he crushed 2 black belts in a row and then a brown/ black belt? Noone can grapple with him. That would be the same fight as Silva/ Leites
by Austin Martin on Jan 15, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No it wouldn’t at all, and Penn vs Aoki would be much more entertaining than the Penn/Edgar fight will be in April.
by scrambledeggs on Jan 15, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Not to mention
that Aoki is a BJJ black belt AND a judo black belt. Plus his creativity borders on insanity. Kenny is a pretty simple BJJ player, and Diego trains under the kings of simple BJJ. Also, Aoki doesn’t shoot for a single and work against the cage for it like Diego/Kenny did or Edgar is stylisticly inclined to. He shoots to pull guard. Which is about as smart as Simple Jack against BJ, but you can bet he’ll try it and we’ll see if his incredible squirliness is better than BJ’s top control. If nothing else, BJ can do a video blog later featuring a conversation with Mach Sakurai about how fun it is to make Aoki cry. And who wouldn’t enjoy that?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Such insane moves as:
The Flying Octopus Guard Pull
and The Hello Kitty Backpack
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
While that shit is crazy, is it possible that we over rated JZ?
by Matthew Roth on Jan 15, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody said that would happen.
All I said was that Aoki’s creativity borders on insanity. I’m not using the terms as in “Anderson’s striking is insane!” I mean he’s insane and creative like if Jackson Pollock decided the best medium for his art would be feces.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 15, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Disaster
That is what to call any attempt by Aoki to pull guard on BJ Penn. Aoki is a blackbelt in BJJ and Judo to be sure, but, as my own BJJ instructor has told me many times, there are blackbelts and then there are BLACKBELTS. Tim Credeur is a BJJ blackbelt, think he has anything to offer Ronaldo Jacare Souza on the mat? Think again. Aoki is a blackbelt. BJ is the first non-Brazilian in history to win the gold medal in the Mundial blackbelt division…better ask somebody. Plus, Aoki went to ADCC and got leglocked by Roger Gracie in like two minutes.
by Kimurafan on Jan 15, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Holy shit, really?!
Aoki lost to Roger Gracie? Arguably the best pound for pound submission grappler in the world, and undeniably top 5? Who outweighs him by over 50 lbs! What a compelling argument! Did you see Aoki get dominated by Fedor in that exhibition? Man, what a fuckin’ scrub.
Seriously, I’m not sure what you’re going for here other besides a less-than-earnest use of hyperbole. I already said in so many Tropic Thunder references that pulling guard on BJ is likely to be one of the dumbest things anybody could do, but we’ve never seen Penn on the ground with somebody that creative and insane. Aoki offers something new to BJ, and we get to see how it plays out. I know you say Penn has smashed BJJ black belts already, but he’s smashed just as many wrestlers with mid-tier striking. Edgar isn’t particularly differentiated from Stevenson or Sherk. Aoki is a new, and I use this word somewhat generally, challenge.
To Deo Wade: I often wonder what goes through that boys head in moments like those. I assume it’s along the lines of “If I pull guard, he might slam me. Well I’m not gonna let him do that, I’ll smack my own head into the ground. FUCK YOU! THIS HAPPENS ON MY OWN TERMS!”
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 15, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Only because it’s more fun to see Aoki get knocked out and wake up crying.
I don’t think Aoki would beat Edgar or Maynard a majority of the time.
by Chris Barton on Jan 15, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s the subliminal messages in those silly ass video logs
by KING FEDOR on Jan 15, 2010 4:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Co-promotion has nothing to do with making the best fights.
Co-promotion is about making the most business sense. The only organizations that are entertaining the idea of co-promoting is the struggling organizations that need to do it to help their business. For example this past New Year’s Eve event in Japan wasn’t done to make the best fights happen. It was done because it was a business decision.
Co-Promotion isn’t about seeing the best fights. It’s all about doing what is good for business. So co-promotion will never be an option with the UFC unless one of these other MMA organizations build themselves up enough to bring equal negotiating power to the table.
Since being critical helps the sport then maybe writing about the lesser MMA organizations and their troubles would be more effective then always being negative about the one organization that is successful. So here is a suggestion for Josh Gross. Try writing about the wrongs of the lesser MMA organizations. That way they will know what they are doing wrong with their business and they can fix them.
Just BE.
by mattman73 on Jan 15, 2010 3:33 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I totally agree. It’s fine to write critical articles about the UFC, but why not balance it out with some constructive criticism for Strikeforce or DREAM, both of which make plenty of crazy business errors in their own right?
by theplague on Jan 15, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Signing Fedor would have kept SF from becoming what it has and would have given the UFC a vice grip on the industry (moreso than they have now) but that still doesn’t mean that the UFC should have done it. Giving half the profits of a fight card to a fighter’s manager because he is signed to fight for him is a recipe for disaster, and while it would have given us a fight we want to see, it would have completely changed the only business model that has been working in the sport.
by Phildo on Jan 15, 2010 3:42 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
One simple question:
How many co-promotions have worked? How many have happened without things going wrong?
M-1 co-promoted with Affliction and Bodog and there were bad feelings in the end.
K-1 and several other companies were all going to work together…and that fell apart.
Elite and Strikeforce needed a legal ruling to work together and had issues.
The UFC and Pride had a working agreement on a couple of occasions that resulted in the UFC sending talent over and getting nothing in return.
Penn/Aoki sounds great, but it is awful that Penn might face the # 5 and/or #6 LWs in the world? I personally am not going to lose sleep if those bouts happen instead of Aoki.
For a co-promotion to really work, both sides have to be bringing and equal amount to the table. I don’t see too many companies bringing equal value to the table with the UFC.
Gross seems to feel that it is awful that Faber will face Aldo even though Brown has beaten Faber twice. Brown just lost to Aldo and Faber just beat a top ten fighter. Why is this awful?
by Lynchman on Jan 15, 2010 3:46 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
UFC’s refusal to co-promote has hurt the sport? Really? I don’t think so. Where have we seen co-promotion on a truly large scale in MMA history? M-1 and Affliction? Strikeforce and Elite XC? Well, I know that 50% of the promotions I just mentioned are now dead. Furthermore, Gross used terrible examples when bringing up the fact that no co-promotion prevents certain fights. Fedor vs. Randy? Really? Randy just got KO’d by a guy in his fourth professional fight, and then lost a handy decision to Nogueira, who Fedor brutalized on two separate occasions. I admit I was never on board the Fedor/Randy hype machine. And as for BJ Penn vs. Shinya Aoki, that is a one-sided affair to say the least. People say Aoki must be ranked number two in the world, but he’s been soundly beaten twice in the last two years. Before his win overe Hirota, h had a lackluster win overe Vitor Ribeiro, who didn;t want to engage him at all. He has two very high-quality wins over Joachim Hansen and Eddie Alvarez, but his resume is lined with one-sided victories over guys like Todd Moore, David Gardner, and Katsuhiko Nagata. Meanwhile you have a guy like Kenny Florian in the UFC who stops guys like Joe Lauzon, Roger Huerta, and Joe Stevenson, and gets handled by BJ. Why is Aoki so deserving of a shot at Penn that the UFC is in any way obligated to co-promote? Especially with the DREAM promotion in Japan, which nototriously spurned Zuffa when they were more than willing to run PRIDE in Japan just like the days of old. Furthermore, the UFC once sent its biggest rising star in Chuck Liddell to Japan for the PRIDE 2003 Middleweight GP with an understanding that PRIDE would send fighters like Wand and Sakuraba over stateside for big fights in the UFC, and the UFC got played out. Can you blame them for having such a stance on co-promotion now?
by Kimurafan on Jan 15, 2010 4:06 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
So,
Since co-promotion hasn’t worked yet, we should give up on it all together? Because that’s the main point that I keep seeing.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. " — Albert Einstein
by Steve4192 on Jan 15, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Well played but
"A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends."
Co-Promotion, son.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
UFC play hard to get. You're giving it out to easily honey.
2010 will determine:
1. If Strikeforce can hang with the UFC.
2. What the UFC’s fanbase limit is on PPV shows.
3. If 2009 was just the start or the peak for UFC/MMA.
4. If MMA will be a hit and stick overseas.
2010 is an adjustment year. All the promotions will find their limits and the smarts ones will adapt.
Btw, I would be ok with the UFC only doing 12 PPVs so they can build up to their New Years show and make it the Superbowl of MMA.
by snakecharmer1340 on Jan 15, 2010 4:19 PM EST reply actions
As a fan would I like to see Fedor vs Lesnar or Penn vs Aoki? Absolutely!
Am I daft enough to demand that the UFC put on these fights when as a company it would cost them a lot more to put them on? No Way!
They have little to no incentive to put on those fights outside a bunch of hardcore fans that hate that the UFC has a RNC on the industry. They’re a business like any other, the moment the UFC starts copromoting is the day that MMA is likely dying.
by pr0cs on Jan 15, 2010 4:27 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
The UFC will have to copromote on some level
Right now the UFC runs everything — they pay their commentators (Rogan et. al.), for example. The fact is, no legitimate sport is arranged like this. There are always multiple players. The UFC will have to begin opening its doors if it wants the networks to play ball in the long run.
No legitimate sport?
How many baseball teams are on networks owned by the team? how many basketball teams? Hockey teams? How many games are on the SEC network? big 10 network?
Why do people think letting someone else do the production will automatically make things better. A CBS employee called Slice Petruzelli the biggest upset in the history of the sport. FSN people screwed up the integrity of a hockey game last week by not sending all the replays to the league office for a review of a goal scored by the road team.
Co promotion for the sake of co promotion is stupid. If there was a reason to do it, they would.
by Phildo on Jan 15, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
What I think should be getting more attention concerning the future of MMA is the training process and dealing with injuries. As UFC 108 proved, you have to be prepared for the absolute worst situation and putting on a show you’d likely rather not. Furthermore, we could see problems with fighters on painkillers and what not. This sport, it’s training process and the actual competitions, may be more taxing on the body than even football. Their should be some serious research, time and money thrown this way.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
*there
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Jan 15, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
I wrote a fanpost disputing many of the points in Josh’s article:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/1/15/1253438/tearing-down-josh-gross-latest
by MMAEruption on Jan 15, 2010 5:00 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Josh is a great example of the benifits of getting in on the ground floor.
I like to watch MMA and follow his writings as he is proven wrong time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again and he continues to bitch.
Keep firing Assholes!
Melvin Manhoff is my favorite fighter.
by Ubernoober on Jan 15, 2010 6:13 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
UFC won't last
Think about it. This kind of thing has never successfully been done in history. There is no sport that I’m aware of, that charges $50/ppv and runs year-round and is successful. Football doesn’t go year-round. You can watch football for free.
UFC is a private company. Is it possible UFC sold more than just 10 % to Abu Dhabi? I think so. They are under no obligation to give us the real numbers. What if they sold the whole company? What if they sold the whole company and Dana and Fertitta Bros are being kept on for a few years as managers until the whole deal is completed. What if that is the deal? You wouldn’t know about it. Dana says, “one day, I’ll be out of the picture”. Under the deal, they wouldn’t be allowed to say what really happened. If they told you that the entire company was sold, people would flip out, boycotts would ensue. This way, everyone is still happy and Abu Dhabi takes over.
There is no sport that I’m aware of, that charges $50/ppv and runs year-round and is successful.
The UFC is
Keep firing Assholes!
Melvin Manhoff is my favorite fighter.
by Ubernoober on Jan 15, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Nascar started
with mooshine running rednecks racing their cars. Something tells me they didn’t think they would have the sport they do today.
The UFC’s refusal to co-promote means that fights that should have happened, like Randy Couture vs Fedor Emelianenko, didn’t and fights that still need to happen, like B.J. Penn vs Shinya Aoki, won’t. Instead we’ll get B.J. Penn against the likes of Frankie Edgar, Gray Maynard, etc.
Yeah because Edgar nor Gray would be able to hang with Aoki, Gross become more of a joke everytime he writes a horrible article like this. Simply put the overated effect that comes with guys outside of the UFC hasn’t changed even though we’ve seen the difference between being a great fighter in Japan and being a great fighter in the UFC.
by Raker on Jan 15, 2010 7:54 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Summary of Gross' article
Hey! Everyone look at me! The UFC is the greatest promotion in the history of the sport and has given us more great fights and put more money into fighter’s pockets than all other MMA promotions in the sport’s history put together- BUT, they will no longer be able to grow or even survive unless they COMPLETELY change the way they have done business up to now. Amirite?
by ufc4 on Jan 15, 2010 11:58 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
An even shorter summary of Gross’ article:
I hate MMA
by Matthew Roth on Jan 16, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Oversaturation...
Football will be well and truly done soon, bring on some oversaturation until August!
Randy versus Fedor + BODOG = $3 million
It is amazing how everybody tends to fail to mention that Randy Couture was offered $3million dollars to fight Fedor Emelianenko at a Bodog Event.
So who’s to blame for that particular fight not happening . . .
Couture
Fedor
or the UFC?
This was when he was not contractually obligated to the UFC.
Happy Holidays and A Happy New Year
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