Strikeforce Should Directly Challenge UFC 106 With Fedor Emelianenko
by Michael Rome on Sep 9, 2009 5:53 PM EDT
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For the last month or so, Strikeforce has played an extensive game of hide the ball. Or maybe it's more accurate to say Showtime is playing that game. They keep teasing Fedor's next fight without announcing the date, and they're even going as far as leaking several different dates to throw the UFC off. I can't help but think this is enormously counter productive.
If they're really doing a show October 10 with Fedor, that means they're going to give the fight 1 month of publicity. They'd be selling a huge event of theirs short just to avoid the dreaded UFC monster. They're making all this effort, and there's no evidence that counter programming even really hurts UFC competitors. When they did a live event against the first Affliction, Affliction got far more press than it ever would have on its own, and the show blew away industry expectations on PPV by nearly 80%.
Even worse, they're coming off as pathetic and weak. One side has declared war, the other side is trying to hide under shelters while the bombs fall. News flash: the UFC is not going to run out of bombs. What they should do is be proud of their product and put it up against UFC 106 in November. Showtime can easily advertise the fact that you have a simple choice that night: you can pay $50 to see a WWE superstar who doesn't even know how to fight, or you can see the greatest fighter in MMA history on Showtime. Sure it's manipulative, but it's no worse than what Dana's been doing to Fedor for years now.
If they do that, there will be a mountain of press covering the entire Fedor vs. Brock situation, and who is the more legitimate champion. And whose side do you think most reporters are going to come down on? When Dana couldn't stop slamming Affliction, he ended up on the front page of the L.A. Times sports section next to Donald Trump in a big piece focusing on their upcoming battle. Dana can't help himself, he'll go berserk if they do this, and it will drive a ton of publicity for their event.
Further, even though UFC 106 has the potential to do over a million buys, that's still just a million households. That's far less than would watch some big Spike TV show, and you're offering a cheap alternative to their expensive product. The success barometer for Fedor's first fight is probably the 400,000 viewer mark, a level that a press avalanche could push them across.
The other day, someone told me that the war between UFC and Strikeforce felt like a battle between Coca Cola and the lemonade stand your neighbor's daughter runs on Sundays. And thus far I think it's a perfect analogy. Strikeforce's main response has been to cringe and hope for mercy, but this is Dana White, there is no mercy until he destroys his competition. It's about time the people at Strikeforce and Showtime wake up and fight. If they don't, they'll find themselves in a deal room with the UFC in about 2 years signing papers and telling the press they're happy to be working with the UFC.
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But as a business if you go heads up and have a disaster it can cripple you as a company. Strikeforce wanted Fedor but wants to remain low key. After seeing the success Affliction had going head to head with the UFC Coker should play the duck and cover game.
Strikeforce will lose going head to head. They need to slowly and (most importantly) quietly build a fanbase and stable of fighters. Getting in Danas face gets you a black eye and KOd. Going quietly about your business in the back round will allow you to grow and build financial stability.
I hope the keep putting on their shows and putting on good quality fights with out attempting to hang with the UFC. I want too see fighters fight, not promoters. You can’t fight a company who has a majority of the fans, TV ratings, PPV buys and fighters. You build your company slowly from within. Sign the young and up coming fighters (see MMAsup fanpost) and continue with Showtime fights. If the product is good people will tune in.
by Riney on Sep 9, 2009 5:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Going quietly about your business in the back round will allow you to grow and build financial stability.
Unfortunately, that was last year. Dana has declared war. Dana doesn’t care what SF does now, so long as he destroys them. In a year or two, all their big stars will be signed with the UFC. It’s like watching a horror movie where there is a relentless killer. He doesn’t care who or what you are, so long as he gets to kill you. So you have a choice: die now, or die later? At least if you turn around and fight, you can go down swinging if need be, rather than waiting in some dank corner somewhere, hoping the relentless killer loses interest – which he won’t.
I love me some Sexyama!
“I’m not anti-Strikeforce,” White said. “I don’t dislike those guys. I dislike Showtime. That’s who I dislike.”
=)
It may be that all Dana wants is for SF to go back to where they came from and stay at the regional level. But Coker knows what he’s doing, and if it ever gets to the national stage, that would be a huge problem for the UFC. I’m sure if SF stayed regional, it’s fine, cause the UFC needs them as a breeding ground for up and coming talent. But I don’t think that’s what Coker wants in the long run. It’s certainly interesting to see what will play out over the next year or so.
I love me some Sexyama!
I was about to write abut how silly your idea was, but the then it hit me – it might not be that bad.
1) Showtime measures their success by subscribers. Even if it takes a hit to the number of viewers watching live, it could possible see an increase of subscribers – many who’ll be watching the fight later on tivo.
2) The added press can’t help but introduce your fighters, OK lets be honest, fighter, Fedor to the more casual UFC fan.
3) And the one major drawback – that it may enrage Dana even more. isn’t even a drawback. He’s still out to destroy them, so who cares how much they piss off the UFC.
If Strike force goes up against Brock Lesnar they will be out of business faster than i thought.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
This ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Rarely diasgre with Rome, but I dont see how on earth going up against the biggest star in the sport is a good business move.
The folks that SF wants to watch this fight dont know who Fedor is yet, many of them dont know who Strikeforce is for that matter. They know the UFC and they know Brock. I think the extra hype or media coverage for Fedor/SF goin head to head with Brock/UFC would attract more new viewers and existing viewers to the UFC card than to Showtime.
Even if the Canadian Football League had the best football player on earth (as recognized by the “hardcore” football fans) it would be pointless to showcase his first game in their league opposite of a primetime NFL playoff game. Fans would watch the NFL and google the other shit later. I know ill hear that this comparison doesnt work here, but you get the drift. Plus, would ESPN cover 106, SF, or both…. my guess is 106. Not all media outlets will cover both extensively… Honestly, their job is to sell papers or get page views, not to educate the public on the MMA world. Brock and the UFC is where the media will flock to I would assume.
I think this could possibly work for a second Fedor SF fight if he mauls Rogers and gets some good pub for it. But right now, no one knows who the guy is!
First you sign the biggest free agent and possible p4p best fighter in the sport’s history, but you cant get him in a title fight right away (while in the meantime their actual HW champ could lose an MMA match and K1 match before he ever sees Fedor in the cage). He may be a legend but he’s virtually unkown to the American public. To think that a few months of Showtime hype could ready him to go head to head against the UFC’s biggest draw is silly to me. If he KO’s two straight guys, maybe, but not his first fight.
If its on CBS sure its a little different. But is CBS really going to pick up his first fight without seeing how well he draws first? If I were CBS Id certainly wait for a Fedor title fight, maybe even with a Gina/Cyborg rematch underneath it.
Remember two things (great DMB cd) 1.) Brand Equity… UFC has it, SF does not. 2.) Brock isnt a UFC star, he’s THE UFC star (right now) , at this point Fedor may as well be invisible in the US.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Sep 9, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I'm going to have to disagree
I think this idea is a lot more sensible. The kay difference here is PPV. Those who are going to buy UFC PPV will buy it. But Strikeforce is shown on a premium cable channel. It’s NOT PPV. So the whole point of going against 106 is to get the media to focus on the ‘war’ between the two entities with the idea being that people who don’t normally watch MMA will tune in just to see what the big deal about ‘this Russian guy’ is.
Remember – Strikeforce doesn’t intend to destroy the UFC. What Strikeforce wants is survival and the ability to make a buck. And the way for them to do this is NOT to steal UFC fans (because that will never happen). It’s for them to enlarge the MMA pie.
I think the point you’re missing here is that, according to the Rome (and some others, I assume), the UFC has a 10-fight free TV card ready to go to announce as soon as Strikeforce nails down a date for the Fedor show.
If this is true, there’s no avoiding the UFC. SF is faced with either choosing to a) limit their ability to promote the event by being coy about the date in a futile attempt to avoid direct competition, or b) give themselves breathing room to promote and preserve their one marginal advantage, that of subscription cable over PPV.
The problem with this approach is that since UFC 104 is only two weeks later than Oct. 10th (and has a main event that probably appeals a great deal to the kinds of people that like Fedor to begin with), and 105 is on Spike, that leaves UFC 106 as apparently the best available upcoming event to go up against. And that event is headlined is by the UFC’s biggest draw.
So it’s a no-win situation. But it’s not out of the question that going head-to-head with 106 is the way that SF can lose the least.
Sorry but I’m watching Lesnar vs Carwin over Fedor vs Rogers if I had to choose one of the two fights. Call me a fanboy or whatever you want, but I can’t stand the announcers in SF, they pretty much ruin the fights for me especially Gus Johnson!! I’d rather listen to Mike Goldberg spew more nothingness than listen to Gus Johnson’s annoying voice.
Whatever, you know you like watching the skinless muscle fighters performing omoplatas.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 9, 2009 5:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
engorged organs
FTW
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Sep 9, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
One of the excellent features about Rome’s suggestion is that us hardcore fans wont have to chose. We can easily watch both PARTICULARLY if you were going to buy the PPV anayway. All you need is showtime and a DVR. Hell, I might just set my DVR to record SF then just go to the local bar and pay the small cover for UFC . The main point about the media jumping on the heated rivalry and the antagonism that would build is is key. Dana would get tons of questions about the head to head match up and the thing would have a life of it’s own. On the other hand, maybe it’s best to just do it on the same weekend. That way they can capitalize on the “who’s really # 1” question and still get all of the fans who would watch but would just prefer the UFC. Sunday 9pm E. 6pm Pac or does sunday night football mess that up too much?
They’d rather their show not be watched at all than be watched the next day, huh?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Sure they do.
There’s no constitutional right to DVR and keep shows in perpetuity. I guarantee there’s language in whatever contract you signed for cable/satellite that allows them to change the terms of usage with a certain amount of warning, usually included in your bill. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying they could do it.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
Nope
A) what does the cable/satellite company have anything to do with showtime and why would they piss their customers off even if they could do it?
B) so if you had TiVo (not a DVR) then Showtime would have to get TiVo to work with them as well? nope
C) seeing that DVR is the main reason that none of the networks make money anymore (nobody wants to pay for Ads) then why would every network just block everyshow? or even the big shows?
Seeing that this has never happened. I am pretty sure they can’t do this and would not do it. Just to spite UFC? haha…maybe in your mothers-basement MMA world
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9950082-7.html
How do CableCard rules apply?
A CableCard is an interface that enables U.S. consumers to view and record digital cable TV. It allows people to bypass set-top boxes and watch cable broadcasts on DVRs, computers, and TV sets, provided that they have been sanctioned by CableLabs.
CableLabs, a consortium created by the cable industry, must certify all CableCards. Microsoft’s Vista operating system supports CableCards, and this can effectively turn a sanctioned PC into a DVR.
CableLabs require CableCard-equipped devices to come with DRM and adhere to commands from broadcasters. Those commands include “copy never,” “copy once,” and “copy freely.” Typically, consumers bump into these flags only when trying to record video-on-demand or pay-per-view programming from premium cable channels. VOD is often protected with a “copy never” or “copy once” command.
To date, it is unclear whether any broadcaster has intentionally tried to use the “copy never” or “copy once” commands to limit recordings from over-the-air digital or basic cable. It’s safe to say the practice isn’t common. But EFF says the block of American Gladiators proves that it can be done, and O’Brien expects that broadcasters will be under pressure to try it in the future.
Do DVR owners have any rights?
You bet. “You have a fair-use right to record TV content, as specified by the Supreme Court in the now-famous Betamax case,” O’Brien said.
“The important thing to remember,” he added, “is that digital-TV viewers must not lose any of the rights they owned as analog users.”
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
It’s basic math—even the most successful possible Lesnar-Carwin fight on PPV won’t do anywhere near the viewers a big counter program show on free TV will do on Spike (think Anderson vs. Irvin pulling in 3 million households). If you’re going to fight, choose the dates of engagements wisely instead of being cowards and cutting your own time to advertise short by desperately avoiding UFC competition.
While I think it’s worth looking into, but here’s something to consider:
- Even though PPV sales would only be in the 1 to 1.5 mil household range that fails to take into count that a large number of people view the fights in a group setting (gather at a house or at a bar). So while households viewing may be low, the actual number of viewers would be much higher than that.
- Is there any possibility they could get this to be there first CBS broadcast? It would be much easier to compete this way if what you were offering something readily available. Also, the gatherings for the UFC card would be a plus. It would be very easy for bars to turn some of their tv’s over to the Strikeforce broadcast.
Also, the gatherings for the UFC card would be a plus. It would be very easy for bars to turn some of their tv’s over to the Strikeforce broadcast.
That would piss me off. I normally have to pay a cover to watch the UFC event at a bar. If I’m paying cover, they’d better have it available on all TV’s. It’s like paying cover to see a band, only to have another band on a side stage play at the same time, albeit on a smaller stage.
But I think you have a point about the cluster viewing of UFC events at bars and homes.
I love me some Sexyama!
at the Affliction show the bars I was at also showed the Spike TV event
the UFC put on. It made for some confusing viewing but worked out.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Yeah that’s what they did at the BWW’s I was at. And it was fucking awesome.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 9, 2009 6:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Come on Rome
Silva vs Irvin did approx. 3.1 million viewers, not households.
1 million PPV buys assumes 6-7 million viewers.
Check your ‘basic’ math.
You’re way off here.
by MickDawg on Sep 10, 2009 11:25 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’d love it if they followed this recipe if only to see the veins DW would blow trying to down-play everything said.
I agree though, the war has already been started, no point to try and make out like there is no war. They need to promote the fight anyway, might as well try and bait the UFC into commenting for free publicity.
you almost nailed it
There are two big advantages here that you hinted at but didn’t quite nail…
(1) Picking your UFC counterpart escapes counter-programming.
It’s not that you avoid the UFC, since Dana has shown that they won’t let you do that. It just means that you pick what your UFC competition is, which leads into point #2…
(2) Strikeforce is “free” versus a UFC pay-per-view at around $50.
Fine, so Strikeforce on Showtime isn’t exactlly free. But it’s still a hell of a lot cheaper than the UFC PPV. But that’s not quite the end of the story, since some of us like to see fights live (including me, which has led to many late nights and early mornings in Europe where the time is ahead by 5-6 hours). This can also work to Strikeforce’s advantage… if they seriously delay any re-broadcasts and go after any internet broadcasts or footage they find. But they need to be upfront about it. PPV events are always replayed and, these days, available “On Demand.” So Showtime can send the message that the UFC can wait, but Fedor-Rogers is either now or six months from now… and still much cheaper than UFC.
Using this strategy, Showtime also has an interesting selling point in Brett Rogers. He’s a largely unknown commodity who KTFO Arlovski, who is relatively well-known. They should sell Rogers as much as they sell Fedor. “The Last Emperor” versus the one guy who might surprise you and destroy the tsarist empire (sorry, bad Russian history reference). This isn’t just Fedor… it’s the chance to see a legitimate upset live on Showtime where the greatest MMA fighter ever might lose – BUT YOU CAN ONLY SEE IT LIVE – and then you can catch the UFC replay before seeing/hearing/reading the results. Or you can miss an historic moment in MMA history to see a fight that Brock will probably win.
That’s how you sell a fucking fight.
I felt the free v. pay aspect was kind of implied, but yeah, that’s a huge part of it.
Even if they “lose” this battle, which doesn’t matter, they do a lot of good for themselves through the press they create. Further, they set up a possible situation where Sportscenter that night could be running highlights of Brock getting KO’ed and Fedor dominating in one round. Much more likely than the opposite happening.
It was definitely implied (free vs PPV), but I suspect some readers didn’t quite catch it… especially with the Affliction comments, since they were going PPV vs free instead of free vs PPV.
The ideal situation is probably for Strikeforce to counter one of the European UFC PPV cards which tend to be weaker. The downside is that the UFC will then just make the originally-scheduled PPV free on Spike live in the afternoon and on tape-delay at night.
The current strategy of just holding back an announcement is stupid and won’t work… if all else fails, UFC can throw together a show on Spike, likely a recent PPV… or maybe even a special airing each of the most recent title fights for each division.
Strikeforce here benefits from some points Bloody Elbow has recently bought up about the UFC’s problem having main event fights on upcoming cards… they can pick the weakest ones to go up against.
Realistically, Strikeforce has to accept that Showtime cards will have to go head-to-head with UFC PPVs and CBS cards will have to compete with Spike TV counter-programming (either new live events or repeats of previous ones). This isn’t an option. It’s just a matter of picking the cards/shows that they will perform the strongest against.
by random_asshole on Sep 9, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Going against a European card would probably also give you the benefit of keeping the bigger names off the card.
It makes some sense, but the whole idea here is to use the press Brock Lesnar brings and to get a rub from the Fedor vs. Brock comparisons that all the mainstream outlets will do. I can only imagine a tale of the tape: 30-1 v. 4-1.
If you’re a lemonade stand in a war with gatorade, and gatorade is dedicated to destroying you, you choose the right battle. You choose to argue that your lemonade kicks the ass of their lemon drink.
UFC is better at 99.99999% of things than Strikeforce. But Strikeforce has the legitimate, linear heavyweight champion. That’s a PR battle they can win, or at least one they can do better in than any thing else.
Man, it will be easy for the UFC to win the PR battle. Here is all they have to say, If Fedor is really the legitimate heavyweight champ than why is he trying so hard to duck the UFC where all the best fighters are?
I doubt that it's as easy as you say
Fedor is the linear HW champ. The PR version would say – every fighter can choose where they fight. Fedor just doesn’t like the UFC. He’s not the only one. Lindland, Barnett, F. Shamrock, Miller – there are loads of people who say or who have said in the past (I know Lindland is keen to get back in the UFC fold) that they don’t want to work with the UFC.
So Fedor ‘ducking’ is not an easy PR battle to win for the UFC.
You seem to be under the impression that strikeforce has an equal voice as the UFC. The fact is if you aren’t in the UFC you don’t really exist in MMA to the vast majority of MMA fans in the US. It is an incredibly easy argument to make for the UFC.
by Dropkick434 on Sep 10, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I'm under the impression
that the general main stream media will do a little more research than just accept that anyone who fights in the UFC is the be all and end all of MMA.
This WON’T happen in most cases. But it will happen in some. And those are the publications that really count. We’re talking things like the NY Times. Those guys who are going to dig just a little bit deeper. They’re going to come to BE and find…hey presto….these MMA enthusiasts all unanimously agree that this Russian guy could kick the UFC HW Champ’s ass.
Ok what is going on here?……Then write an article about that.
Wow, you keep grasping at straws. First, there is no way it is a unanimous consensus that Fedor would beat Lesnar. If the media comes to BE and reads all the posts around the time he signed with strikeforce they will think no one gives a fuck about him anymore. You are being a shill for this stupid concept that going head to head with the most popular MMA fighter in the US is a good strategy.
Obviously
We have to agree to disagree. And I was obviously using hyperbole when I wrote:
MMA enthusiasts all unanimously agree that this Russian guy could kick the UFC HW Champ’s ass.
The point is still that Fedor is regarded unanimously as the number one HW in the world.
It comes down to this:
You – think that going head to head with Brock Lesnar would be worse than if Strikeforce went against a free Spike TV show.
I – think that going head to head with Brock Lesnar would be an overall better option for Strikeforce as opposed to a Spike TV show.
That’s it.
LOL
1) Challenge The UFC like Affliction and EliteXC did = You are crazy and doom is coming.
2) Don’t Challenge the UFC and Just Focus On your promotion = you are weak and doom is coming anyways, so, just challenge them.
=)
Or in my opinion:
3) Strikeforce keeps on doing what they have been doing, which is a middle ground of letting Showtime do the challenging and posturing while Strikeforce focuses on their own promotion and not others.
Anyone who still listens to MMA Supremacy on issues of going against the UFC is probably still listening to the Weekly Standard on the Iraq War. At some point you are so wrong so often you lose credibility completely. Stick to what you’re good at.
by Michael Rome on Sep 9, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
That’s fine, but going head to head is never a good option.
The short term exposure is not worth the backlash from hardcore and casual fans.
It isn’t an ideal situation, but it really isn’t an option. They are going up against the UFC, whether they want to or not. Might as well take your time and promote the show on the date that they choose. They had a hard enough time promoting their last card, trying to do it on short notice will not work as well.
didnt the last card do great ratings and a great gate??
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
It did pretty well, but I don’t think Fedor or M1 would be happy with a cut of those numbers.
That is SF’s problem right now. They were humming along just fine, but I don’t think continuing with those numbers will keep Fedor happy. And even if it does keep Fedor happy, it’s sort of a waste of his talent and a waste of one of his fights.
I’m not saying this is the ideal situation, the point is, they can’t get the ideal situation. They are going head to head with the UFC with Fedor’s next fight, it doesn’t matter when they do it, there will be a UFC card that day. Why handicap yourself further by not giving yourself the time to do a proper lead-in.
The ideal spot would be not going against the UFC, but that is impossible, so they have to do something creative. I don’t think trying to pull a fast one will be creative enough.
The ratings were very good by Showtime standards, but the attendance and gate weren’t anything special by Strikeforce standards in the HP Pavilion. 13K people and a $750K gate is nothing to sneeze at, but it is nowhere near their top end shows which have drawn as many as 20K fans and a gate well over $1 million.
The ratings and the 14K attendance is pretty darn good, though I agree, the gate could have been better, but try and find a promotion outside of the UFC who can consistently put those numbers while keeping a relatively low payscale.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 10, 2009 6:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Here is the problem.
Fedor throws out the “relatively low payscale” part of the equation.
SF is doing good, but not good enough to compete with the UFC, which they will need to do to keep Fedor happy.
The other thing on that is the location. SF could probably sell out the Shark Tank on 2 weeks notice, they have a very strong foothold and a bunch of SF fans in San Jose, that’s not the case in Newark.
Fedor only has 3 fights, and they will be co-promoted. People are making too big of a deal out of it. If Fedor was fighting on every card like Affliction, then yeah, I would be worried.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 10, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That wasn’t my point at all.
To make M1 happy, the co-promotion needs to work. Getting half of the gate the SF usually gets is way less than what the UFC was offering.
They need money to keep Fedor happy. What was a success without Fedor is not a success with Fedor.
When you have Fedor fighting, the definitions of good, pretty darn good, and great change.
Good thing the AFL didn't listen to your advice in the 1960s
or the ABA in the 1970s or the WHA in the 1970s…
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
Different econmic realities
In the 1960s and 1970s, pro athletes were making chicken feed. The AFL/ABA/WHA were able to pick up a ton of top talent and pay them well enough to keep them without breaking the bank.
Apples and Oranges. Let me know where all the promotions that tried to go head to head with the UFC are at the moment. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 10, 2009 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions
SF has to go up against the UFC. That’s what you are missing. There is no way on earth this card doesn’t get counter programmed with a live event.
The way you go about doing it is what is key. And if it does get counter programmed, so what? Gina vs Cyborg did with freaking UFC 100 replay and it was a success. We will see what happens.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 10, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I also think your strategy may have an outside chance to work, but ONLY if it was a CBS show. I don’t see it working that way for a Showtime show.
agreed… a CBS show against a PPV would be killer… that means EVERY bar that doesn’t pay the UFC ppv fees, will be showing the CBS show….
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Sep 9, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
If UFC puts a card up against yours it’s taking away your business, because it won’t put a dent in theirs.
This doesn’t work the other way around.
If Strikeforce puts a card up againt the UFC, it might as well be the UFC counter programming Strikeforce.
What your advocating is shooting yourself in the foot.
Since the UFC’s gonna counter-program regardless, it’s more like picking your poison.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
People don’t get the reality here. UFC has a card in the tank with 10 agreed-to fights ready to go on Spike to counter Strikeforce. Whatever it is, it will get more viewers than UFC 106. It will also be free.
Strikeforce needs to pick their battles here. Either way they are probably getting countered, might as well create a mountain of press for yourself opposite a show people will have to pay for.
You are correct my good man..
You’re going to go up against the UFC.. Might as well go up against the UFC when the consumer has to pay for it.. Although I wouldn’t be too shocked to see them throw in the Free fight that night and push the PPV back 1 week or so just to spite them.. The UFC has Vegas on lock and has the ability to throw a card together on a moments notice and still do decent gate sales and ratings.. Because UFC 106 is already slated for Vegas, they can throw a card in it’s place and push the PPV around if need be.. It’ll stay in Vegas either way.. Or they might even do a “free” Fight Night as a lead in to the PPV.. Making it an extra long night of UFC fights… Either way SF is doomed in the long run so it really doesn’t matter.. It was bound to come to this at some point..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
The easiest battle to pick is not to counter programme a UFC event, but to counter programme a WEC one.
Zuffa won’t compete with their own product so they would be stuck. But then WEC slots are on a Sunday…
WEC 43 is on a Saturday
Oct. 10, as a matter of fact.
Sergio Non,
MMA writer, USA TODAY
http://mma.usatoday.com
I hope Versus is back on DirecTV by then...
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
Zuffa has little or no interest in WEC. And that brings me to another question: When is Faber’s contract up? If they were was one potential star they could steal from Zuffa it would be him.
Do you honestly think Zuffa would let any of their divisional poster boys jump ship?
by Screwface on Sep 9, 2009 10:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Honestly no. But he’s one person who’s been vocal about his pay, and with the WEC fighters still not integrated into the UFC he would have a lot of leverage. Either Zuffa moves him into the UFC, or if they’re not ready, able, or willing to have featherweights, jump ship to Strikeforce. A "Norifumi Yamamoto fight would be ready as soon as the inked dry.
Agreed. At the very least, you come in with a bang. Dana isn’t gonna quit, so there is no use in turtling. No ref is gonna pull him off.
I love me some Sexyama!
I believe Brian Billick, former coach of the Ravens, said it best...
“When you go in the lion’s den, you don’t tippy toe in — you carry a spear, you go in screaming like a banshee, you kick whatever door’s in, and say, ’Where’s the son of a bitch?’ If you go in any other way you’re gonna lose.”
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Sep 9, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dude, it's Brian Billick
It doesn’t have to make sense, just sound good. There’s a reason he’s the EX-coach of the Ravens.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
I was just marveling at Billicks motivational skills. I remember when he was OC with the Vikes.
by John Nash on Sep 10, 2009 12:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Or you sneak in and stab the lion in the neck as it sleeps.
Keep firing Assholes!
ZE GOGGLES! ZAY DO NOZING!!!!
UFC has a card in the tank with 10 agreed-to fights ready to go on Spike to counter Strikeforce. Whatever it is, it will get more viewers than UFC 106.
What makes you think that? PPV buys != total viewers watching that PPV. If Brock/Carwin does 750,000 buys, that’s going to represent at least three or four times that amount of viewers if you include those watching at bars. Will a free card on Spike TV with say, Marquardt and Henderson headlining (and probably it will be a weaker headline than that) get over 3 million viewers? I think that’s far from a certainty.
Silva vs. Irvin averaged 3.1 million viewers and peaked at 3.8, and that was a year ago. UFC’s popularity has only grown since then.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
Their PPV buys have gone up but as Dave Meltzer recently pointed out, their tv ratings and viewership have stayed the same. Whether or not they would get more viewers on a card on Spike TV than they will from UFC 106 will depend on the card, and it is certainly not a definite as Michael Rome implied.
Mike, I don't think you get the reality here
You are essentially asking them to commit Hari Kari here.
LOL GUYZ LETS COMMIT RITUAL SUICIDE BY GOING AGAINST BROCK LESNAR
The idea is to get eyes on your fight. If they have any ability to market fighters, they will be able to do this. without committing Hari Kari by going against Brock Lesnar. Even if they want to go against a UFC on purpose, do it with the laughably weak UFC 105, where you might actually draw away viewers.
Nobody is skipping a Brock Lesnar fight to watch Fedor other than roughly 5-10K hardcore fans, half of whom will stream it online because they don’t have showtime. Other than that, NADA.
Now, plenty of people will skip a weak british card to watch Fedor. Fedor’s actually done a decent job of getting his name out there, and most casuals have at least heard of him.
This is like owning a British soccer club and scheduling Manchester United your first year of existence because “If you’re going to lose, you might as well go down screaming” No, how about the idea of not losing? How about fighting a tactical war instead of sending a Fedor suicide bomber which gets a lot of attention but leaves you with guts everywhere.
Going against Lesnar is a guaranteed loss. Do you have any idea how the typical UFC fan does their purchasing? They don’t read all the MMA media you are so excited about that wll cover this whole thing. Even if it gets mainstream attention, like ESPN/USA TODAY, this will cause them to say “Huh, the new UFC is gonna be a big one!” They won’t think for a second about switching from a Lesnar fight.
How about trying your damndest to market Fedor in a way that helps the company grow? Their showtime numbers were good last time without Fedor. They should keep that momentum going with him. Simple as that.
Jeremiah Johnson
Contributor
FightMatrix.com
by Jeremiah Johnson. on Sep 10, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s Showtime. It’s about percentages of viewers, 400k would be the equivalent showtime rating of something much better than what the UFC routinely pulls on Spike for their Europe shows.
No, its not. 500K viewers is a HR for MMA on Showtime right now (which only Gina and Kimbo have been able to achieve). If Fedor gets above 400K, it would be excellent news. Of course, Showtime and Strikeforce are hoping for 500K + again.
I'm obviously missing something here
If Strikeforce gets 500K viewers for a Showtime show against a UFC PPV with a million buys, how is that a homerun for Strikeforce? Twice as many households would have paid $50 to watch your competitor’s product rather than watch yours for no additional charge to your cable/satellite bill. How is that good news?
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
Pretty sure there is an additional charge on your bill if you have Showtime.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
No additonal charge if you already have Showtime
I guess I could have worded that better
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
Yeh you are missing something
It’s like if McDonalds had already been in a new emerging market (lets take Kazakhstan for hypotehtical purposes and potential Borat references.
McDs has been in KZ for 10 years. And they are dominating the landscape with close to 100% share of the fast food market. And some smaller regional fast food chain goes in with one kick ass product and is able to capture a substantial market share (say 10%) right off the bat. That would be a success.
Strikeforce isn’t looking to out-do the UFC. They’re not competitors on a level ground. We’re not talking Pepsi vs Coke (that’s not really an even fight anyway – at least on the soda level). We’re talking like Intel vs. AMD but MUCH worse.
So yeh – 500K viewers for Strikeforce against a UFC PPV with a million buys is a home run for Strikeforce.
The goals are relative to the stage your business is at.
Because you and many others are missing the point. They aren’t going to outright beat the UFC right now or in the near future. So why pretend you are going to or let them affect your plans.
They just need to do whatever it is they need to make themselves successful in a business and financial sense. By piggybacking off the massive media that surrounds Brock Lesnar and the UFC they will get coverage and exposure they could never dream of getting themselves. The media hype around the #1 HW in the world and the biggest drawing and #2 HW in the world could do them serious good.
The idea is NOT to beat the UFC but to use them and Dana’s ego/fierce competitive edge to leverage themselves into getting successful media attention and viewers.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Sep 10, 2009 1:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
^this
Finally someone who gets the picture clearly and is able to express it much more eloquently than myself.
If I had to chose.. I’d still go for the PPV and try to catch SF on DVR (or replay for people without DVR).. They usually replay the fights the following week much like HBO does..
I have Showtime and it sucks !!! Their programming is awful.. It was a free-be from my cable provider so I don’t mind otherwise I would skip it and just stream the fights I wanted to see online the following day.. I’ll pay for a product that I know I’m getting my money’s worth on a consistent basis..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Nope.. I liked Weeds & Dexter.. but they dont compare to Entourage & True Blood for me.. Kind of got stale…
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
But a true champion, face to face with his darkest hour, will do whatever it takes to rise above. A man fights, and fights, and then fights some more. Because surrender is death, and death is for pussies.
Kenny Powers Your fuckin’ out
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
ha!! thats my sig!
oh… showtime has This American Life… my favorite show.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Sep 9, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
his karate movie
is pretty hilarious too
by cagefightonacid on Sep 10, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
“they’ll find themselves in a deal room with the UFC in about 2 years signing papers and telling the press they’re happy to be working with the UFC”
I hope so.
by cagefightonacid on Sep 9, 2009 7:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I don’t want to see boxing… but I also see little benefit in having a monopsony. At least for the fighters.
to me
it’s a give and take… with a “monopoly” on the sport i believe it’s growth will be quicker and this will benefit everyone. in my opinion, the multiple orgs argument boils down to this: multple orgs dilute talent and keep the best fights from happening.
by cagefightonacid on Sep 10, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I do think a “monopoly” may actually be beneficial to the growth of the sport. But my concern was for a monopsony. A situation which is basically the inverse of a monopoly, where instead of one producer of a product, there is only one buyer. In this case the UFC would be the only purchaser of talent. Game theory shows how it dampens wages without competition. But if there is competition for employees between the employers in this case would maximize both wages and employment.
and keeps the best fights from happening
by cagefightonacid on Sep 10, 2009 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
For the fans that’s a problem. But for the fighters? I think they’d benefit with another org bidding for their services.
by John Nash on Sep 10, 2009 2:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
they’d benefit with another org bidding for their services
Then we still wind up with fights we can’t see. A union would help solve this.
I’m all for a union, except for the fact I can’t realistically see how one would be formed. You’re middle tier athletes are the one’s that would form a union, and, unlike in team sports they hold no leverage. In football and baseball the non-stars are valuable because they still are needed to round out a team good enough to win. But in mma how many people buy a card to watch Josh Neer vs. Kurt Pellegrino or Chris Lytle vs. Kevin Burns? If those fighters decided to strike to tomorrow the UFC could move up the preliminary card fighters and everyone would still buy it to watch Lesnar, GSP, or Couture.
While VERY true I don’t like having more than one major promotion either. Remember back to the PRIDE days where we never knew who was better? I hated that. I just assumed the guys in PRIDE were better fighters and had to swallow a pretty bitter pill.
I enjoyed PRIDE more than the UFC and wish it had “won the war”, but if the UFC is what we have than I want them to have all of the best so we don’t have to wonder (as much) anymore.
between the skinless bone and muscle people and gus johnson being a part of the broadcast i had to buy a dvr for watching the strikeforce fights. gus is seriously HORRIBLE as an mma announcer and the muscle people need to go. i would record the strikeforce fights to fast forward through all showtime and strikeforces bull shit but i would watch the ufc all the way through an enjoy every bit of it. got to admit joe rogen and goldy have grown on me very much
This could be the single dumbest thing i’ve heard in a long long time, so you want SF to counterprogram an enormous UFC show headlined by their biggest star with a guy who has no draw.
Honestly it’s not counterprogramming if no one cares about what your putting on the air, this isn’t a point counterpoint move. Brock is a known huge star he will draw a huge buyrate and is the guy everyone wants to see. Fedor regardless of what the hardcores say is a nobody and trying to go against any UFC ppv noneless UFC 106 would be suicide.
There is no playing offence against the UFC when it comes to a war because even when SF does well like Carano vs. Cyborg the UFC always does better. Dana would be laughing his ass off if Showtime tried this and so would anybody with half a brain. You can’t challenge a machine like Zuffa when you have nothing to counter it with regardless of how many fanboys band the Fedor drum. Because to the rest of the mma public he’s just another guy who if he was anygood he would be fighting in the UFC.
I think you're missing the point.
This suggestion is actually very sensible. The point is to increase the pie. To get the mainstream media interested. To get more people to hear about Fedor Emelianenko. To get the name ‘Strikeforce’ out there.
Right now pretty much no one outside San Jose has heard of Strikeforce. By putting Fedor up against Brock and Carwin at UFC 106 you get the media thinking ‘who are these two guys fighting for the UFC HW title?’. And who’s this Russian dude who EVERYONE (i.e. all the ‘MMA experts’) agrees is the number HW in the world.
Then people start thinking: Lesnar – 4-1. Carwin – 11-0 against lower tier comp. Fedor – 30-1 with that 1 defeat being by cut stoppage. And the loss was avenged.
Now you’ve got people thinking. Shit…maybe the UFC doesn’t really have the best fighters. Maybe they just have the best marketing team. Maybe they just sign pro-wrestlers who can’t really fight and ex-college football stars because they weigh 300lbs and look like the Hulk.
The worst thing for Strikeforce would be to have Fedor’s fight counterprogrammed by a free Anderson Silva fight on Spike.
Because then those questions don’t apply. The UFC has the legitimate pound-for-pound king fighting (some other top guy at LHW) and then nobody cares about Fedor. He’s just another good fighter who didn’t sign with the UFC.
I think what Roma has suggested here is the way to go for Strikeforce. They’re going to get crushed either way. This gives them the best chance of surviving and the best chance of spinning the PR in their favour.
Whatever you’re smoking please put it down my friend this sounds like the ramblings of a delusional Sherdogger. There is no debate the best fighters fight for the UFC, even the biggest haters don’t have any argument to go against that simple fact. The idea that somehow the rest of the sports media would start drinking the Fedor Jesus Juice, because of SF and Showtime press release is beyond the realms of reality. Simply put the brand is what matters to the rest of the mma public whose never heard or cares about Fedor in anyway possible going up against the Zuffa machine is retarded.
SF is in a lose lose situation but their one single ray of hope as longshot as is, that somehow they can use Fedor and his next couple of fights to make him a name value and possibly turn him into a viable draw in the US. It’s a 1 in 100 shot but it’s a shot, putting his debut SF fight against Rogers against a monster UFC PPV would put their chances of making him a draw at zero. It’s just something that hardcore fans don’t seem to understand is that just because we talk about this mma fighter or this mma fight that the rest of the mma fans feel or care about what we talk about and they don’t.
Tom Attencio? Is that you?
This plan sounds vaguely reminiscent of Affliction’s aborted plan to counter-program UFC 100.
"Showtime can easily advertise the fact that you have a simple choice that night: you can pay $50 to see a WWE superstar who doesn't even know how to fight"
Ummm….What?
Let us put YOU in the ring with Brock and see how he demonstrates his “NON-fighting” ability…..
my god….will people just STOP knocking Lesnar just ’cause he came from the WWE already??? This got old 2 Years ago……
Why are there SO many people missing the point of this article
Brock can fight. No one is disputing that.
The point is Lesnar CAN be knocked because he was a former pro-wrestler. It’s a PR battle that Strikeforce can fight (I didn’t say they’d win – but it’s the best battle to go for).
I have a feeling this response is going to be misunderstood as well but for the record the point is:
1. Everyone posting here knows Brock can fight.
2. The ‘mainstream’ doesn’t really know who can fight and who can’t. They just know what they get told be the media.
3. Brock is 4-1 and Fedor is 30-1. Fedor is the linear HW champ. MMA ‘experts’ believe Fedor to be the No.1 HW in the world.
4. Strikeforce can spin the media and try to make it seem like Brock is a farce.
Savvy?
You got to get CBS on board and I could see it having a chance. They don’t neccessarily have to broadcast the fight, but they have advertise it and hopefully talk about it during NFL games. Then you might see a huge spike in curious viewers tuning in to see what everyone’s talking about.
by John Nash on Sep 10, 2009 1:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You are giving the media WAY too much credit.
They are lazy. THey are more than happy to scarf down the pablum that the UFC feeds them. Sure, you might find one or two outlets who do some research and find that Fedor is legit, but most will simply parrot the UFC part line.
Fightlinker makes the CORRECT argument against this
The fact is that the vast majority of MMA fans in this country are essentially UFC fans. On top of that, Lesnar and Ortiz are two of the biggest draws in the history of the organization and the sport. Strikeforce would essentially be cutting out a major portion of their audience by putting the show against UFC 106 as most fans are going to tune in to see the latter.
In short, any potential increase in buzz from the counterprogramming situation will be heavily outweighed by the loss. There are other ways for Strikeforce to market this show — and Fedor specifically — without putting it head-to-head with the big giant that is the UFC.
These guys have the right argument against what Rome is suggesting. Here’s the thing though:
There are (in my estimates) about 80,000 hardcore fans who are the people who would pay to see Affliction and would tune into see Fedor fight no matter what if they could.
The problem is this. I think that no more than half of those 80,000 would have Showtime. This is just a wild guess. I have no idea about those numbers. So essentially by putting Fedor against 106 you’re instantly losing at least 40,000 viewers (those who HAVE showtime) to 106. Because even as a hardcore fan i’m more interested in 106 than Fedor v Rogers.
BUT – where do the other million plus PPV buys for UFC come from? UFC fans. These guys are the casual fans who will watch the UFC. They have brand loyalty and they don’t really care that much about Fedor. They’re going to watch a free UFC show on Spike over watching Fedor on Showtime. So when the UFC counter-programs Fedor’s fight with an Anderson Silva free fight – guess where those million eyeballs are going to be?
Ok so who’s watching Showtime? It’s a small number of hardcore fans plus whoever in the mainstream is generally interested in sports and has recently picked up an article or blurb about this undefeated Russian. It just so happens our mainstream Joe has Showtime and he tunes in. With the press from 106 – Rome is hypothesizing that this could well push the viewership to above 400K. I’m not sure it could do that but it definitely sounds like a better plan than getting crushed by a free Spike TV show.
Whoa, whoa, whoa….. I thought the Strikeforce PR machine and the sluething NY Times were going to expose Lesnar as a sham and bring down the face of MMA as we know it by making Fedor the most popular man in America? I guess the last article you read on a blog no matter which side it is on becomes your opinion eh?
If you read what I wrote
You would see that I’m still on Rome’s side:
With the press from 106 – Rome is hypothesizing that this could well push the viewership to above 400K. I’m not sure it could do that but it definitely sounds like a better plan than getting crushed by a free Spike TV show.
Nobody (not even Rome) is saying this is a sure fire victory for Strikeforce. I’m just saying it’s not a bad option and unless someone comes up with a better option it’s the best they have right now.
That’s pretty much what I have been saying around here and was told not to be taken seriously.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 10, 2009 6:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The outlook is unclear.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Ask again later.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 10, 2009 8:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Fightlinker doesn’t agree:
Rome makes an interesting point with the Affliction example, but his argument still fails. While the fact that the UFC scheduled a show the same night as Banned no doubt awarded Affliction some press, I wouldn’t go as far to say that that was the main contributing factor to the show’s success. The card was essentially a hardcore fan’s wet dream at the time, comparable to anything the UFC puts on. As a result, it was bought by a large audience of hardcore fans, many of whom started following the sport so closely only after the UFC boom of 2005. Sure, the programming war added some buzz to the show, but there is also no way of knowing what the numbers would have been had the show not been aired the same night as a UFC event.
I’m gonna give it to you straight cause I’m a straightshooter.
I’d watch the free one on Showtime and then score the UFC’s online for free somewheres afterwards.
I don’t have Showtime, and most of the people I get together to watch PPVs with have no interest in Strikeforce. I’ll be watching the UFC PPV with my usual crowd and download a torrent of Strikeforce to watch the next morning.
For the record, this is the exact opposite of what I did when the UFC countered Affliction: Banned. I was able to get people interested in watching that show, so I order the PPV and watched a torrent of Silva-Irvin the next morning. The problem is, I don’t have nearly as much to work with in selling my friends on Strikeforce as opposed to Affliction.
Except that Fedor guy, Shields, Jacare, Lawler, and few other peeps for their upcoming show. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 10, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure that going up directly against 106 is the best solution, but it’s not as absurd as some people are making it out to be.
Remember when Gina vs. Cyborg was going to get more media attention and hype than UFC 100? Yea…
The UFC, and in particular Brock Lesnar are media juggarnauts, and SF hasn’t shown that they are able to get anyone’s attention outside the mma blogosphere. If Fedor is fighting anywhere in the vicinity of Brock, the mma sites will have to talk about both at the same time. If MMA Live goes to the UFC 106 weigh ins, and Fedor is fighting the next day, they have to talk about it, and that will get people to pay attention.
I’m just using MMA Live as an example, but the point can be made for all mma sites/tv shows/whatever. All the mma sites are going to cover Fedor no matter he is fighting. They’re also going to cover whatever the UFC does. The only time people outside of the mma bubble care what is on mma live, or inside mma, or sherdog, or bloody elbow is around UFC fights, and even more of them care when Brock is fighting. If Fedor is fighting at the same time as Brock, he will get the same coverage he always does from the mma sites, but more people will be listening, and that is Strikeforce’s biggest problem. When they do stuff nobody cares and nobody knows.
Piggybacking Brock’s popularity and coverage will at least get people to know, then it’s up to them to make people care.
Good point. But I still think trying to pit Fedor against UFC 106 is company suicide for Strikeforce.
The walls have been breached. There are no reinforcements. You’re out of weapons, you’re outnumbered 20 to 1, the enemy intends to mutilate and torture you. you:
A) hide under the bed and wait
B) Make sure you go in a ball of fire. Enshrined in glory you run into the middle of them doing as much damage as possible before the inevitable.
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