FightMetric Breaks Down Over Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Randy Couture at UFC 102
FightMetric recently released their report for the UFC 102 main event between Randy "the Natural" Couture and Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira. The results, I suspect, would come as a shock to most.
Looking at the fight as a whole, the FightMetric Effectiveness Score gave Nogueira the nod by a relatively close score of 346 to 304.
Under the ten point must system, FightMetric judged the fight 29-28 Nogueira with round one going to Couture 148-118 and rounds two and three going to Nogueira 81-76 and 141-79, respectively.
I believe most fans would scoff at these results. Every single piece of analysis post-fight praised Couture simply for remaining competitive, but no one thought the fight was particularly close. Every outlet I followed live during the fight (Michael David Smith and Steve Cofield via Twitter, Bloody Elbow and Sherdog's live scoring) gave it 30-27 to Nogueira as well.
So, where's the discrepancy? I e-mailed Rami Genauer from FightMetric to find out:
The first point I would make is one I’ve tried to stress in the past: The Effectiveness Scores are not meant to be used to judge the fight. They are not bound by the same criteria as the Unified Rules (or any other system), so the numbers can’t be used in lieu of human judges. While watching it, I scored the fight 30-27 for Nogueira. After watching it more closely and seeing the numbers, I still score it 30-27 for Nogueira. I think that’s the correct score, based on my understanding of the judging criteria. More to your point, what we’ve found with an astounding level of accuracy, is that the Effectiveness Scores have a very high correlation with the consensus view of who "won" a round. The simple answer for why that isn’t the case here is that Round 1 was the perfect storm of an outlier round and an outlier fighter.
The Effectiveness Algorithm is a mathematical model, and all mathematical models will have a hard time dealing with outliers. For example, the PECOTA model used by Baseball Prospectus is probably the best performance projection model ever developed, but it cannot figure out Ichiro Suzuki. His talents and performance are so unique that they betray a model that has worked so well everywhere else. I’d recommend reading this great article by Nate Silver, the creator of PECOTA, explaining the Ichiro problem back in 2004.
He might not be as different as Ichiro, but when looking at his career, it’s safe to say that Nogueira is quite a large outlier. No one else has succeeded so well while being beaten so thoroughly...And so a model that has proven so valuable when dealing with so many other fighters has a hard time compensating for Nogueira’s unique physiology....Keep in mind, we have over 300 rounds scored with the Effectiveness Algorithm displayed on our website, and this is the first one that’s ever produced a truly "huh?" moment.
The action in the round was also anomalous. Nogueira did two very effective things (knockdown and sub attempt), while Couture was a lot more consistently effective. Normally, this evens itself out. The issue here, again, is Nogueira. Normal fighters don’t take that much punishment and still win the round very often.
The last point I would make is that we learn along with everyone else. We will never compromise our methodology, fudge the numbers, or hide from our findings just because the output seems strange or is unpopular. If these numbers indicate anything, it’s a proof for just how incredible Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira is. It may be a long time before we see anyone else like him.
I hate to quote such a lengthy e-mail, but Rami explains things very effectively. The idea that Nogueira has a special and unique quality to him probably comes intuitively to most, but I find that having more evidence than simple observation helps push the point.
Photo by Sherdog.
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30 comments
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Comments
I actually had it 29-28 for Nog, but I can easily see 30-27 for Nog as well. I never bothered to go watch the fight again and see what I thought because it dosen’t really matter, but I do find it interesting that FightMetric shared my score.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by kyfm621 on Sep 9, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rogerio vs. Couture? I must have glossed over that one.
But on a serious note, I’d like to see those two square off at LHW.
by Ahhhoki on Sep 9, 2009 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sooo.....
Nog’s chin is so good it fucks up math equations. Awesome.
by Tonley on Sep 9, 2009 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I forsee a Chuck Norris line of jokes.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 9, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nog's chin
is both the irresistible force AND the immovable object.
by rzor on Sep 9, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
although it can't apply to nog's chin, and i've tried
my favorite is “chuck norris doesn’t stub his toes- he accidentally breaks sidewalks, steps, and furniture”
by amadeus on Sep 9, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite one is...
Legend has it only Chuck Norris’ tears can cure aids. Too bad Chuck Norris never cries.
by poundnground on Sep 9, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Q:What would happen if Chuck Norris’ fist hit Big Nog’s chin?
A: The world implodes.
by grein on Sep 9, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weirdly detailed aside about PECOTA.
Incidentally, Nate mislabelled one of the datapoints on that chart – I e-mailed him about it at the time, but he never fixed it.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Sep 9, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If these numbers indicate anything, it’s a proof for just how incredible Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira is. It may be a long time before we see anyone else like him.
TRUTHNESS TO THE FULLIST!
by orcus on Sep 9, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The knockdown was why I gave round 1 to Nogueira. I don’t know who was actually hitting harder, but having Nog’s chin means it’s harder to make him look bad on his feet. BJ has a similar ability to not look any worse for wear after a tough round. Now I want to watch the fight again.
by Graven Image on Sep 9, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nog also has a huge head so count that also.
by 1WAYtiket on Sep 9, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Liddell had the same ability to take a big shot but come out ahead in the exchange, just like BJ. At least until his chin got melted from the repeated abuse at LHW.
I feel sorry for Randy as he landed some powerful shots on Chuck right before he got KO’d in one of his losses (Chuck hardly blinked). Essentially the same thing happened here, with Nog just walking through his power punches.
It’s tough to fight guys with a brick head if you can’t fight going backwards. They’ll at least trade with you when in range, or worse.
by bigweeze on Sep 9, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats how wandy used to be… chris lytle is similar.. it must be very demoralizing to hit someone with everything you have and have them not flinch
by amadeus on Sep 9, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but over time it takes a toll on their chins..look at Chuck, Andrey Arlovsky and even Wandy. and it has nothing to do with age but more with the brain. dont forget KO is a brain concussion. cant take too many of those and still be the same fighter. even their reaction time gets messed up too.
by 1WAYtiket on Sep 9, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chuck’s recent susceptibility to the KO doesn’t help his victims now though.
Best way to fight is to have a rock hard chin and not get hit either (like Anderson).
by bigweeze on Sep 9, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its the counter punchers worst nightmare. if over time your chin fails and your a counter puncher. your in deep crap. (dont forget brain concussion affect timing also which is a must if your a counter puncher)
by 1WAYtiket on Sep 9, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Chuck is slow on the trigger now, which is a death sentence since he holds his hands so wide apart. More and more, I see him and Keith Jardine as quite similar fighters.
by bigweeze on Sep 9, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. Don’t get hit, but don’t rely on your chin to always eat a shot on the way in. It’s like gambling for steals in basketball.
I thought of a better analogy when playing NHL online.
I much rather face the bad player with a great goalie instead of the skilled player with a bad goalie.
Sure, you may get robbed repeatedly by the bad player’s CPU goalie. But the skilled player will make sure you don’t get many scoring chances on his net, so his goalie is less of an issue (whether good or not).
by bigweeze on Sep 9, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s why he is dancing now, and not fighting. =)
by 1WAYtiket on Sep 9, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting blitzed by Wand in his day must not have been fun.
by bigweeze on Sep 9, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a long list of fighters whom you could ask about this.
The experience certainly is not something I would put on my bucket list.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nog’s skills are like a fine wine, they get better with age.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Sep 9, 2009 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
its the counter punchers worst nightmare. if over time your chin fails and your a counter puncher. your in deep crap. (dont forget brain concussion affect timing also which is a must if your a counter puncher)
by 1WAYtiket on Sep 9, 2009 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that headline
is teh funny… “FightMetric breaks down over Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Randy Couture” says to me they are sad, sobbing and emotionally unstable because of Big Nog v Handy… that one extra word says a whole lot lol
by chucharro on Sep 9, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That was a great response. He didn’t seek to defend it at all, he acknowledged a breach in his model. His attitude is exactly what every scientist/engineer out there should have.
Well done sir!
by Shaun32887 on Sep 10, 2009 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rami is definitely good peoples.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Sep 10, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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