Grading Mirko Cro Cop's UFC 99 Performance
by Mike Fagan on Sep 4, 2009 6:30 PM EDT
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Back in June, the big story coming out of UFC 99 revolved around Mirko Cro Cop allegedly breaking a verbal deal with Dana White and jumping ship to fight in Dream in Japan. Lost in the initial report from Yahoo's Kevin Iole was this little bit (emphasis mine):
Filipovic looked unsteady and hardly impressive in defeating Al-Turk, who is winless in the UFC. He never landed one of his vaunted kicks and the fight ended not from a punch but when he poked Al-Turk in the eye with his finger.
Referee Dan Miragliotta didn’t see the poke, so it was regarded as a clean blow and Filipovic won by stoppage.
You'll get little argument from knowledgeable MMA fans that Filipovic's abilities have taken a downslide as he progresses further into his thirties (and one should note that he will be nine days past his 35th birthday at UFC 103). That's what happens when you fail to develop past a very limited (if not dynamic) skill set in a sport that rewards well-roundedness.
Still, Iole's description of the fight - a sentiment that I don't think is unique to him - directly contradicts what I saw that night in June. To borrow a baseball catchphrase, I saw Mirko being Mirko. He patiently pushed forward, shoved Al-Turk off when he attempted to clinch, and unloaded strikes when he found an opening.
What I find particularly despicable about the passage is Iole's isolation of the unfortunate eye poke as being solely responsible for the referee stoppage. This ignores the action immediately proceeding, which saw Mirko chase Al-Turk on the fence with combinations and ultimately knocking him to the mat.
When he heads into the cage against Junior dos Santos, I'm not concerned about Cro Cop's fitness or form. If the June fight is any indication, we will get the same Croation we've gotten for the past couple of years. The test for Cro Cop will be whether or not he can overcome the size of dos Santos. At 6'4" and 240+ pounds, he compares very well to Alistair Overeem (6'5", 240-250 pounds) and Cheick Kongo (6'4", 230 pounds), who both found success bullying Cro Cop up close in the clinch.
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Completely agree here.
Though Mirko did admit he wasn’t kicking because of his knee. He is going to need all of his weapons to beat Dos Santos.
by Michael Rome on Sep 4, 2009 6:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Mr. Fagan there is one problem with your article – it takes Kevin Iole seriously.
by John Nash on Sep 4, 2009 6:40 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I with you on Crocop. I think he looked pretty good, better than he ever has in the Octagon. It wasn’t just the eyepoke. I’m convinced if that hadn’t have happened, Crocop would have still won by stoppage. Crocop looked determined, and I think if he can bring that same determination to Dos Santos, he could win. This fight will say a lot about each fighter if they both bring their A game. If Dos Santos wins, he’ll hopefully have beaten a revived Crocop, which is huge for him. If Crocop wins, we know he’s back.
I love me some Sexyama!
You finally finishing up some 2 month old articles Fagan? Up next, “What does Lyoto Machida’s Destruction of Rashad Evans Mean to the Rest of the Light Heavyweight Division?”
:)
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
It’s timely because he’s fighting again soon.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Did Cro Cop look better against Al-Turk?
Yes but remember it is Al-Turk, look at what Kongo did to him. Dude was 6-3 before Kongo and now is 6-5.
Now could Dos Santos be a fluke? Yes we have seen it before, See Alexander, Houston and Sokoudjou, Rameau Thierry.
If Cro Cop wins you go to Cro Cop/Nog 2 I believe but if Dos Santos wins where do you go with him and Nog?
Dos Santos vs Todd Duffee
Big Nog vs Mike Russow
Cro Cop vs Tuchscherer
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by Kid Nate on Sep 4, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Nog has earned a better opponent than Russow
Maybe Nog vs. Gonzaga?
Same with Dos Santos. Duffee is almost a step back. If he beats Cro Cop I say the winner of Mir/Kongo, if that fight happens, is next.
If Cro Cop wins I like Cro Cop/Nog 2 however if he loses Cro Cop/Duffee.
Finally I’d match up Russow and Tuchscherer.
FYI:Not trying to bash your suggestions just throwing out mine.
good suggestions
better than mine.
hope you’re not scared to disagree with me after my recent ban rampages!
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
If he beats Cro Cop Duffee is definitely a step back for JDS. But it would only be par for the course considering he was given Stefan Struve and Cro Cop after Fabricio Werdum. Both of those fights were steps back too.
I know I’ve racked up tons of comments about Dos Santos at this point, but I still don’t get why he’s regarded as he is by fans. The guy should have earned at least as high a profile as Cain Velasquez at this point.
Has Cro Cop a step back?
Because he is not the old Cro Cop? He is still a top 15 hw unlike Struve.
Dos Santos is regarded high because of a lot of reasons
1) He trains with Black House – do you know Black House? They train Big Nog, Lil Nog, Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida, Paulo Filho, Jacare, some of the best fighters in the world.
2) In his UFC debut he knocked off a highly ranked Werdum – you know Werdum who has beat Strikeforce hw champ Overeem, Aleksander Emelianenko, and Gabriel Gonzaga.
3)He is very young and guess what in a division where people are always claiming Randy, Nog, Cro Cop, etc.. are washed up you always are looking for the next great talent.
That is why this guy is regarded as high as he is. Guys like Fedor and Brock and Randy and Nog are not gonna be fighting forever so you want to find guys that you think might be the next big thing. Just like how Johnny Jones and Luiz Cane and Ryan Bader are thought of so highly at LHW.
Strikeforce hw champ Overeem
LMAO, and IFL HW champ Roy Nelson is now on The Ultimate Fighter. Unless your name is Fedor a title from any promotion other than the UFC means nothing.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
I meant that Cro Cop is a step back from Werdum. He’s a step forward from Struve, yeah, but still not of the caliber of Dos Santos’s first UFC opponent, which is a little weird to me. (I don’t consider Mirko a top 15 heavyweight anymore.)
And my point is actually precisely that Dos Santos is underrated, not overrated. I can see where my wording on both points was vague. When I say that he “should have earned at least as high a profile as Cain Velasquez at this point,” I mean that in my mind he HAS earned this, but that doesn’t seem to be the case amongst fans in general, for whatever reason.
by JRN on Sep 5, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Let’s also remember it was basically a warm up fight coming back from injury so it doesn’t tell us much. He looked slower, more hesitant, but Shogun Rua looked even worse against Mark Coleman, and look how much he improved by the time he fought Chuck (of course at this point beating Chuck isn’t saying much, but he did look better).
Against Dos Santos we’ll see if the old Cro Cop is back or if the new Cro Cop is just an old Cro Cop.
I hate Kevin Iole
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by funnytiger on Sep 4, 2009 6:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Apparently, Filipovic, who is from Croatia, wanted to fight in Germany and use the UFC bout as a tuneup. He did and is now Dream bound, but he’ll almost certainly never fight in the UFC again.
Are you saying Kevin Iole is mmalogic?
by John Nash on Sep 4, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know Dos Santos is a kickboxing champion in Brazil, and he’s certainly closer to his athletic prime than Mirko. At the same time…I think that title means a lot less than Mirko’s kickboxing achievements.
I think Mirko could definitely win this fight, but I’m picking Dos Santos, who is a very fast 240 and can probably outwork Mirko.
How many fights away do you think Dos Santos is away from a title shot if he wins? People are saying Velasquez is getting the next title shot if he beats Rothwell but if you look at there records Dos Santos would have better wins then him.
fightlockdown.com
I’m content to see him build more of a HL reel.
He doesn’t have much hype but I think he could get there after 2-3 more if he takes out CC and say Mir.
Putting him in with Cain would be sweet but they don’t want to derail any challengers. Unfortunately (fortunately for Nog) I think he’s part of Black House, as that would be a good one to book next if he beat CC.
Has CC gone downhill...
Or have people just caught on to his one dimensional style? I think he’s the same fighter he has always been.
That;s because you’re a typical MMA fan that thinks fighters are action figures and don’t deteriorate. Mirko’s style would work in any period of MMA. He only became predictable when he came in the UFC and tried to left kick all the time.
He was his best when he used his hands. I always loved how Mirko would stalk but counte at the same time.
Some fighters deteriorate, like Wanderlei, but some fighters just weren’t that great to begin with, like CC.
that's just silly
for several years Mirko was hands down one of the best in the sport. He battered Big Nog and hung with Fedor.
I think one thing people are overlooking is that Cro Cop’s style suffers in the cage since there are no corners where he can trap people.
Similarly Lyoto Machida benefits greatly from fighting inside the cage where he can’t be cornered. B.J. Penn trapped him in the corner and lit him up a few times. Think what Rampage would do.
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by Kid Nate on Sep 4, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ufc 92
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight what you saw, in the ring"
I missed the point. I thought Kid Nate was referring to how fighters perform in the cage. Although you fancy yourself as the universe’s superfan, you aren’t the only person to watch Pride. You can also call off your little lap dog, nottheface.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight what you saw, in the ring"
I just don’t see it. He’s famous for his losses and outstriking Josh Barnett. I’ve always thought he was overrated, and his biggest win is against an undersized Wanderlei Silva.
Yes thats one point.....
That isn’t discussed much. CC even admitted he was surprised the difference in fighting the cage as opposed to a ring. Like a whole different fight he said. There is none of the re-setting nonsense in the octogon and that makes a big difference because both he and Fedor used that to their advantage.
These aren’t mutually exclusive propositions.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I do really dislike that Mirko seems always to follow his opponents rather than cut off the ring
It’s frustrating to watch.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
If Eddie Sanchez steps backward to his left, Cro Cop should step right rather than forward.
Gonzaga did it too – they both moved only away from his power. He could have mitigated that at least somewhat.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
It’s certainly harder to corner someone, but the same principles apply with regards to keeping their back towards the fence. Mirko’s content to just follow after them though.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Ask Bisping about that…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 4, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not hate, I just don’t think he will win, and I imagine most people agree, that’s why JDS is favored.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
Well I don’t think he is favorite, but I still hope he wins. I want to see this match cause I want to know exactly where crocop stand. To me crocop is a legend of the sport and I won’t let go that easily.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
I never want to see crocop getting ko’ed ever again. Crocop/gonzaga was one of my saddest MMA moment, ever.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
Crocops chin leaves a lot to be desired; I’ve been watching him since he was in K-1 and he got ktfo a few times (once by Le Banner I believe)
by WanderleiNoooooo! on Sep 4, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent post
Great article, finally some level-headed analysis on Mirko. Mirko looked a bit rusty in the first minute of the Al Turk fight but then looked back in pretty good form.
For those of you that think Mirko’s always been overrated, he has to date been the only person to cleanly finish Heath Herring with strikes (herring’s lost by doctor stoppage, submission, etc), to stop Aleks Ememlianenko with strikes, and to KO Igor Vovchanchyn. He’s also beaten Josh Barnett 3 times and, while having a relatively easy path to the 2006 OWGP, he did win it.
Additionally, he’s doing this in a sport he didn’t even train for until his 20s, having been a successful enough K1 fighter to beat Le Banner, Bojansky, Aerts and Hunt.
this is a very good point
but let’s not forget that one of the wins over Barnett was because of a freak shoulder injury to Barnett and another was due to an eye poke.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Grading a fight based on a head kick
Is dumb… if that’s what Iole thought was supposed to be impressive…
I still think Mirko looked less than good though. He looked unsteady, a bit slow… but that could have been due to the knee. He didn’t look back in form at all in my opinion, but you can’t really say he was bad.
He still looked slower, nothing like he did in PRIDE as some people stated.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Mirko isn’t well rounded???
Is this the same Mirko who only has one submission loss in his career, whilst going against some of the best submission artists in the business? That out-grappled Josh Barnett, having him mounted and out-positioned throughout one of their earlier fights. That a prime Coleman or Randleman couldn’t take down? That Fedor couldn’t out-position whilst on the mat or submit?
Well roundedness isn’t Mirko’s problem at all. He is very well rounded, and has the best finishing ability of any fighter in any division. Fighting as Bas and Fedor say is 100% mental, and I think Mirko has a poor mental game. If Mirko can show up 100% mentally focussed, he can beat anyone out there.
Zelg Galeisic stated that Miko’s greatest asset is his timing, and that’s what we havn’t seen in Mirko for some time. In his best he is a patient counter striker, not throwing arrogant big kicks all the time, but patiently stalking and waiting for the opportunity. Which is what we saw in his last fight, which is why there is room for optimism in his next fight, he is sticking to his strengths and according to Fortunal and Mirko’s interviews his mental game is in a place it hasn’t been for years and years.
Mirko has nothing to fear on the ground from Dos Santos – a purple belt as I understand. If Mirko can out-grapple blackbelts and world class grapplers like Barnett, then he has nothing to fear from Dos-Santos. Santos’s style is very similar Igor Vov, a fast hard hitting aggresive kickboxer, and Mirko managed to handle him – albeit in his prime – with relative ease.
I think that from these seeds of promise that Mirko has shown recently, that Mirko’s skills are better than JDS everywhere the fight could go. However being able to put it all together and fight well counts more than skill. If Mirko can keep his mental game high then he should have no problems.
by Donk696 on Sep 4, 2009 8:03 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I don’t know… I’d like to see a Crocop win for old times sake, but I think he get’s dropped— he just doesn’t have the chin.
by WanderleiNoooooo! on Sep 4, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll green this. I want to see him win this and prove to me that the OWGP wasn’t a result of something that was chemically induced. I have my doubts, though. If CroCop’s game plan is to time a head kick to KO someone, then that is an absolutely wrong game plan. That may work before in Japan against inexperienced cans, but the athletes today are not going to stand still for a timed head kick. CroCop needs to deliver the head kick as part of an all out assault.
So far, all of his fights in the UFC seemed like the he was waiting for the perfect time to throw that head kick instead of trying to wear down fighters with strikes… a strategy that hasn’t work so well for him in the UFC. I have a feeling that CroCop hasn’t adapted his style to the modern era of MMA.
Hmmmm....
I seem to remember that Randleman slammed him and GnPnded him silly. Coleman and Randleman being prime at that time would be questionable. I would agree with the Mental part though. Even though it would seem that he is mentally shaky from his last few fights.
I suppose you and I have different definitions of “well-rounded.”
Let me ask you this: if Cro Cop fought a fighter who was significantly better than him standing, how would he win the fight?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I think by your argument, you could make an identical argument for Rampage not being well rounded because he only likes to stand and strike. But I don’t think anyone would agree with it seriously. Or perhaps Anderson, becuase he doesn’t like to take a fight to the ground and finish by submission.
Just because fighters wish to pursue the fight in a certain way doesn’t mean that they aren’t very skilled in other areas. Sure it’s not a smart strategy, but fighters are often more arrogant than smart.
In your example if Mirko fought someone who was a much better striker than him, then he would still stand and strike with them. Even if they were poor on the ground, i’m not convinced he would take it there. But in an earlier fight with Barnett, I remember him winning largely because he had him mounted for most of the fight, and on the feet he didn’t land anything much of significance – but that’s from memory. So he does occasionally chose to win a fight by those means, but in the majority of cases and in his own words he always fights for the KO.
But lot’s of fighters do that, when one says they are better than the other in one area, the other fighter likes to try and beat them there to prove a point. Fighting in a certain way isn’t the best strategy, but just because they choose not to display their skill in other areas it doesn’t mean they don’t have them.
Sherk is a good example recently, as in his last few fights he chooses just to box. In that area he isn’t bad, but just by looking at his boxing you wouldn’t make a statement that his wrestling is poor. I think the same thing is true for Mirko here, he has great skill on the ground, but just chooses not to perrsue it, like many fighters do. But for some reason he gets a hard time about, perhaps more so than any other fighter. Maybe that’s because he comes from a K-1 background in a sport that by enlarge has a grappling history, but I think the attacks he gets are largely not in proportion to what other fighters receive.
Maybe we’re arguing about the meaning of the words ‘well rounded’, but I take it to mean a skill set you have overall. Not necessarily one you draw from and use in a fight. I would say that this view is what is mis-understood about Mirko most of all, as it fairly trivial to say that he doesn’t choose to attack in a grappling sense. But as I said alot are guilty of that, even guys at the top, so I don’t think it’s a big issue, which is why I didn’t make my point from that point of view.
If your definition of “well-rounded” is simply “a skill set you have overall,” then by definition everyone is well-rounded. Each individual fighter has SOME skill in each facet of the game. I also don’t believe simply choosing to eschew other skills makes one less well-rounded as a fighter, though that certainly means they are fighting as such.
I’m short on time, so I’ll add more later.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I don’t think it would follow that every fighter is then well rounded. As take Ray Mercer for example, you couldn’t argue that he is well rounded because he has no ground game. So this is a counter example. So not all fighters then become well rounded by definition as in the case or Mercer he has a mssive chunk missing from his game.
But Cro Cop has a solid ground game, he just choses not to invoke attacking elements into his style. He will try to pass to mount say like he did against Josh, Kongo, Sanchez and others; or try to fight from the opponents guard as he does to most when trying to follow someone to the floor. But he won’t actively try and take someone down.
But then again, a lot of fighters employ that strategy and they are plenty, Anderson, Franklin, Vitor, Wand, Liddell and now even Sherk all employ a strategy similar to Cro Cop’s. But that doesn’t mean they all have non exiting elements just because they do not draw from them. Some people just have that preferance/arrogance.
Are you arguing that Cro Cop doesn’t have these other elements to his game? Pursuing a grappling fight with a gracie in Dream is a clear example that he feels more than comfortable enough in that area of the fight, but drawing from evidence from his fights is a clearer example of his overall game.
I do think you’re overstating his ground abilities. Working to “pass to mount…against…Kongo, Sanchez” isn’t something that qualifies as a good ground game to me. I’d have to watch the Barnett fight again to figure out what you’re referring to, but that still doesn’t prove anything to me.
You’re misunderstanding the point I made about your definition. Everyone has to have some skill in every facet of the game, regardless of how minute it is. Even if you’ve just watched UFC 1 and try to put a guy between your legs, you have that skill. So if you’re definition of “well-rounded” is “a skill set you have overall,” then yes, everyone is well-rounded. Clearly, the point is that your definition is too broad.
If Cro Cop has some slick ground game that I’m unaware of, he certainly hasn’t shown it in any fights. His entire career has predicated on maintaining a vertical base and striking. When fighters like Sherk or Rampage go through stretches where they begin to rely on one skill, that doesn’t disqualify them as having well-rounded skills. They certainly are fighting one-dimensionally, however, if that’s the case.
I’m also interested why you’re so offended about it. Not being well-rounded doesn’t say anything about the fighter’s ability to have success. You can be so dominating at one aspect of mixed martial arts that you can mask other deficiencies. Brock Lesnar’s a fairly good current example.
In addition, saying someone is one-dimensional isn’t saying they’re devoid of ability in other aspects of MMA.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
No, not offended at all. I just like a good argument.
But I think Mirko gets a very hard time compared with other fighters. I think there is almost a common assumption against him of not having an all round game.
According to Mriko he trains with world class wrestlers and very good submission grapplers on a regular basis. I just think that if a fighter is to be criticised then it should be done with examples rather than common knowledge which I think is anything but accurate.
There are few fighters that I follow, Mirko is one of them and the issue of him not being well rounded is something that I think I can have a good argument about and try and defend…
All the best Mike.
But I think Mirko gets a very hard time compared with other fighters. I think there is almost a common assumption against him of not having an all round game.
That’s what happens when you choose to only display one certain skill during your fights.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 6, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mirko can just kick him a couple times in the leg and maybe in the ribs,
Dos Santos has never felt kicks like Cro cop’s
"On the sixth day god created man,but on the fifth day man created god" - Todd White on The Book Of Lucifer:
The Enlightenment
Well don't forget what happened to him....
Last time he went in the cage with a big Brazilian that he assumed did have a kick game. Remember, your most vulnerable for a kick when your throwing one.
Some excellent analysis here.
But why do people still fail to mention that Mirko had his entire knee rebuilt this past January. The Al-Turk fight came only 5 months after this almost career ending operation. He also struggled with his knees and already needed surgery by the time he fought Overeem and H M Choi.
He battles back to fitness to defeat Al-Turk, yet people call him slow, fatter, plodding and not what he was. I would like to see how well most people would walk after that kind of surgery, let alone fight!
Now he has had an extended time to heal and get more training in, I am convinced that Filipovic is feeling good and ready to put in some excellent performances.
Mirko will win via stoppage first round, around the 3:20 mark, via punches. WAR CC!
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