Brett Rogers Relying on Improbable Strategy in Ground War Against Fedor Emelianenko
by Leland Roling on Sep 4, 2009 11:01 AM EDT
in MMA News
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Brett Rogers has been making some confident statements within the media regarding his upcoming bout with Fedor Emelianenko that are probably a bit too confident.Every fan knows that Rogers possesses some huge power that could put Fedor to sleep, but the ultimate question is whether or not he'll actually be able to impose his will in the stand-up game while avoiding the ground game. Rogers told MMAWeekly.com about the chances of a ground battle and what could happen:
"The way I see it, he's not going to want to stand with me. He's going to want to take me down and play the little ground and pound game because he knows damn well my hands are ferocious and he's not going to be able to handle my power. It's not going to happen."
Questioned how his ground game matches up against the Russian's, Rogers said, "If he gets lucky and takes me down, because I'm not an easy guy to take down, I'm a stand-up fighter, so I train real hard on standing up, but if he succeeds, I'm cool. I'm cool with it. I'm a patient guy. I'm just going to hold him and get back up and make him play my game, and he's going to have to try all over again."
This sounds eerily familiar to nearly every single opponent that was a more prominent striker than an actual ground fighter when it came to fighting Fedor, and the problem is that most of Fedor's opponents, while being fed to Fedor at a stylistic disadvantage, still seem to be optimistic that they'll be able to bring the fight back to the feet after being taken down. Arlovski was probably one of the better opponents recently that was able to avoid being thrown down, but he still succumbed to the speed and power of Emelianenko after a huge mistake.
While Rogers doesn't present danger on the ground, I find it strange that his sole tactic is to "be patient" and "hold him" until the fight is stood back up. I would have figured there would have been some concentration on trying to use his weight advantage to at least give Fedor a little trouble, but that would likely be wishful thinking. If he gets taken to the ground, he's probably going to have one of those moments in which he realizes that there is no potential way he can outgrapple Fedor to hold him down or get back to his feet.
If you are one of those fans that believes Rogers has some sort of secret ground game that he has yet to unveil in the cage, it looks like you're sadly mistaken. I imagine this will be a battle that Rogers will lose, and he'll probably talk about Fedor's speed and power after the fight as being "incredible" -- something nearly all of Fedor's opponents talk about after they've been destroyed.
We all know that the UFC has the better fights, but I think many of us were hoping for a bit more from some of the competition in Strikeforce. Overeem offers the most well-roundedness of any challenger in the promotion, but he's seeking the big money in K-1. The fact of the matter is that the Strikeforce Heavyweight crown doesn't mean squat, and it's interesting how other writers are upset about Overeem's reluctance to come over to the States. If Fedor destroys both Rogers and Werdum, why should we care about such a belt when it'll be clear that Fedor has once again set up a situation where fans will continue to clamor for his entry into the UFC to fight the best. Maybe Rogers will prove everybody wrong, but don't hold your breath.
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I feel like we are going to see Fedor KO Rodgers within the first 20 secs. of the 1st round. Then everyone is going to complain how Fedor only fights cans.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
That wouldn’t surprise me at all, but it’ll be sad if Rogers actually uses the gameplan that he is quoted as stating. If the fight hits the floor and Rogers tries to hold on for dear life, he’s going to get crushed into unconsciousness. It’s a given. I don’t see where the logic comes from with this statement.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 4, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah he should at least lie and say that hes been developing him ground game so maybe fedor would be at least a BIT leary about it. He’s basically telling Fedor, I’m going to try to punch you like i did to Arlovski and if you’re a man you’ll let me do it.
Fedor by whatever he wants (although i secretly hope Rogers will KTFoutta Fedor, and kill m-1)
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
me too LOL, I’m so mad at Fedor I hope he somehow loses (it’s not going to happen, but wishful thinking).
I’m tired of the whole UFC vs Fedor thing, and on their last round, UFC won me over and Fedor was left looking like a crook… (to me at least, I understand why many haven’t left that ship, I was there since the fall of Pride :P)
Do you own stock in the UFC or somehow profit when they do?
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
no, I just can’t stand ppl taking an “easier” route. I’m sure you may think there are better competition over at Strikeforce, I don’t see it that way.
I think Fedor was unhappy with the contract the UFC offered (or terms), and he has done enough in his career that irrational UFC fanboys shouldn’t call him a pussy because he won’t bend over for the UFC.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
hey man, I’m far from being a UFC fanboy, and trust me, I have had this debate quite a few times. I’m not going down that road again, because it won’t get neither of us anywhere. so we just have to use that great ol’ saying “agree to disagree” :P
pretty sure noone ever called him a pussy… orcus echoed my own sentiments that as fans we would like to see him fight the top comp, not scrubs with one legit victory or guys who refuse to fight in the US
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Saying that he is ducking fights to maintain his record, or “took the easier route” is saying that he is a pussy, a coward, etc..
You said:
dodging the fights the fans want to see just to maintain his record
Don’t backtrack now.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
just give it up mythbuster (I love that show btw)
this will be my last comment regarding this, peace.
don't put words in people's mouths
saying they want Fedor in the UFC isn’t calling him names.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I’m far from being a UFC fanboy
Absolutely you are.
I’m so mad at Fedor I hope he somehow loses
UFC won me over and Fedor was left looking like a crook
but yes, we’ll agree to disagree…
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
how about this
i’m a UFC fanboy, and i really don’t give a shit because they have their shit together. Deal with it
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
and also
i really dont understand how being a fan of the best org of the sport we all love can be a bad thing
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
for saying fanboy? really?
* sigh * ok… thought I finally had the rules here somewhat figured out. Back to having no idea wtf is going on regarding rules.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
I think he meant
that irrational UFC fanboys shouldn’t call him a pussy
I took offense to that, fanboy is fine, calling someone irrational is not… BTW, I never called Fedor a pussy…
In his world, you can’t be an MMA fan who favors the UFC over other orgs. You’re either a fanboy of one org or another.
My problem was the “hah I hope fedor loses hah” because he didn’t sign with the UFC. To me, in my humble, personal and in no way offensive opinion, I take that to mean.. I don’t want to say fanboy… I take that to mean that the person who makes the above statement, or expresses similar sentiment, is more a fan of one organization than others, and actively roots for them and all things associated with them. Especially when said person follows up with, “UFC won me over and Fedor was left looking like a crook”.
But I digress and say no more. Clearly this is a hot topic and a very sensitive issue, so along with religion and politics, I will leave this alone.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
it's a sensitive issue to you
you are the one taking offense to this. who cares who I used to be a fan of and am no more. this doesn’t change your perspective to fedor. how many times do I hear ppl wanting anderson silva (who I’m a big fan of) to lose? they have their reasons, do you think I’m going to call them up on it? to each their own, you don’t have to be sensitive to every opinion out there, everyone is entitled to their own.
wow
that’s even worse.
Saying ‘irrational’ gets an official warning. Awesome…
Shit, I need to start flagging peoples posts for nothing.
fanboy is fine
Kid Nate, he is fine with me calling him a fanboy. Can I get the warning taken off my official BE record?
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
That’s fine. And lets issue warnings for every other user who as used the word, or words meaning, irrational.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
While this is not a popular opinion, I think that it is better that Fedor fight in Strikeforce right now than in the UFC for one reason: THE CAGE. I feel that Fedor fighting in Strikeforce will get him acclimated to fighting in a cage instead of a ring. If Fedor went to the UFC he would probably get an immediate Title shot against Lesnar. However, if Fedor were not used to fighting in a cage, it could hamper his fight and could potentially end the night early for him. I mean, it is not unheard of to hear from top level fighters and just fighters in general that it can be a tough transition from fighting in a ring to fighting in a cage.
It just strikes me as interesting that UFC fans can articulate and take into account business decisions when they are done by the UFC but are at a loss when its done by Fedor. Who’s he ducking, grandpa Randy, Nog who he’s destroyed, Crocop who he’s beaten. There are probably 2 serious threats in the UFC but who’s to say that won’t change within the next two years. That has to be balanced with the fact that Fedor too is trying to grow his business too.
there was a time...
not long ago, that the UFC didn’t have a great HW division (affliction era, I still loved fedor!). This is not true today. but that’s just me.
I agree
To say Fedor is ducking anybody is just <insert non-offensive synonym for ’silly’>. He just fought Tim Sylvia, a former UFC champ and was very relevant at the time, and he fought Andrei Arlovski, which was considered a mega-match at the time.
The fact that he has enough that he doesn’t need to bend over for a UFC contract, or can, as you say, build his own business, is good for him.
He is generally considered the best in the world. It’s not up to him to seek out lesser fighters to prove himself – it’s up to the lesser fighters to seek him out to prove they are the best.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
Not sure if Sylvia was relevant then or not
I distinctly remember skipping that fight because I was pretty sure Sylvia would get KOed inside of 30 seconds or so
Thats ok
we all have our opinions. Naturally everyone knew Fedor was going to win, but that doesn’t take away from Sylvia being considered a legit contender at the time.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
I’m not one of the one’s that says that Fedor is ducking anyone, but I fail to see how signing this way makes sense business wise.
I haven’t seen anything that says that the deal with SF, even with co-promotion, can come close to what the UFC is offering. That’s what i don’t get.
The UFC offered a bigger money deal. Was it the exact deal Fedor wanted? no. but that doesn’t mean that it was a bigger money deal.
Maybe he wanted something other than money? I believe he probably has enough money to last him a lifetime or two.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
i don’t get what that thing could be though?
Every time Millen talks he mentions money. And, unfortunately, that’s all we have to go on because he’s the only one that talks.
If he just doesn’t want to fight for dana, just come out and say it. I’ll still think it’s stupid but it’s better than all the bullshit.
I recall something about him wanting to compete in sambo tournaments (UFC was against it) and exclusivity, so he can fight elsewhere if he wants.
I"m not sure if anyone knows the real details, but I don’t think money was the sticking point.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
That was the previous excuse. The UFC said he can fight in Sambo. They now complain it’s co-promotion or else. Then when the Internet went ballistic, they claimed the UFC offer was “bad.” This was almost the same offer that made Randy Couture a very happy man.
Randy is no Fedor.
Also, since it’s clear from his Sylvia and Arlovski fights that he isn’t ducking anyone, what’s your opinion on why he won’t accept the UFCs proposals?
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
dude as much as you love Fedor it makes no sence for fighters in the UFC to go after him. The fighters in the UFc are well looked after, to jump ship simply to go after a fairly unknown 230lb russan is silly.
The fact that Fedor has never seen Dana and company says alot about just know much he dont know about. Also in that press call Fedor said he would have signed if the rumours about the deal were true.
Fedor does not dodge fighters, M1 does. They want there cash cow to be safe. If Fedor loses the intrest in him will drop, what little interest that there is in him any ways. Hardcores know him well, but the casuals don’t. Hes not worth as much as M1 would like to think.
I am not sure....
That Silvia and Arlovsky are such stellar examples. Silvia was coming off 2 losses, one to 44 yr, out of retirement Couture, and to already conquered Nogueira. I think Arlovski was a better challenge, because at least he racked up some wins. But the fact that he had 2 recent losses to Silvia made a tactical advantage, IMHO. The fights with CroCop and Nogeuira hold much more sauce to me. After that, I think its gone downhill. And Rogers doesn’t approach that level to me.
The sambo excuse is bogus. They said he could do sambo this time, and Monte Cox said that he could do sambo whne Fedor first signed with M-1, that didn’t work out at all.
I really have no idea what the major problem is.
My guess
is that’s it’s a plethora of things.
Exclusivity
Eternal contract if winning, slashed contract of losing.
Sambo (who knows)
money ($30 million can quickly become much less given the right circumstances)
etc
etc
etc
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
It still doesn’t make sense to me. Even with all those things added up, I don’t see how he isn’t better off in teh UFC.
The combination of his past career, his drawing power, and his price tag make him almost worthless if he loses. Definitely worthless if he loses outside of the UFC, but there’s a chance of him coming back from a loss if it’s in the UFC.
It doesn’t make sense to me.
I think it makes more sense that there are non-money related differences between the two sides than that Fedor is afraid to fight the UFC fighters.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
I’m not saying he’s afraid to fight UFC fighters. It really doesn’t make sense for him to be afraid, but I really don’t get why they are staying away.
I can see why people would think that though, because the other reasons don’t really hold up.
Right, I didn’t mean you. Sorry if it sounded that way :)
But I do stand by my assertion that sticking points in a contract make more sense than Fedor ducking fighters.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
Haven't they already stated....
On several occasions that the deal killer was co-promotion?. If that was the deal killer then why all the speculation of other issues?
Its the whole reason they asked for co-promotion, they’re thinking of growing their brand in Russia and markets outside the U.S. where the potential is huge. Fedor, imo isn’t just thinking of himself as a fighter, regardless of what internet warriors think I’m pretty sure he was pretty honest when he stated he has nothing to prove, especially to the likes of DW and his minions.
I think he truly wants to bring MMA to his homeland with him as the representative and guardian. Business wise they’re looking 5-15 years down the line, not a one time deal to fight Brock… at least that’s my assessment.
Also
it seems (according to this article), the money was far from guaranteed.
Fedor said:
“On the flip side of that, if I had performed in a way that they didn’t like or I had lost, they could end the contract that day or have my purse decreased based on a poor peformance.”
And from this article:
“The number is based on Zuffa’s projections of what Fedor’s take of the PPV money would be, and the numbers they are projecting are based on selling a ton of PPV’s. The actual guarantee for Fedor is much more modest. It’s true that if business stays at record levels Fedor could walk away with $30 million. But that is no guarantee.”
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
PPV % by definition are not guaranteed. You think GSP or Randy are complaining that their PPV % are not guaranteed? Guys who make guaranteed only makes in the 6 figures.
Fedor walked away from a contract because he’s not guaranteed 30 million, but instead went to Strikeforce where the best projection is far less than that? The more you dig, the more it smells bad.
If it’s about the money, the UFC offer is the best. If it’s co-promotion, then they need to stick to that conviction. They don’t even know what excuses they want to use, always straddling between the two.
If he really had the best interests of M-1's long term future
He would’ve signed the contract and fought for the UFC to increase his own exposure, and then used the increased American fanbase to move M-1 to a viable competitive position. M-1 just wanted to be associated with the UFC in articles that made it look like Dana wanted him that badly, and then shunned him.
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“There were a lot of things in there that didn’t make sense and there hasn’t been any movement since then. Generally, one of the main issues was, if I was the UFC heavyweight champion then the contract was basically indefinite. And there were options and extensions, the contract would never end if I was their champion.”
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
Fedor walked away from a contract because he’s not guaranteed 30 million, but instead went to Strikeforce where the best projection is far less than that? The more you dig, the more it smells bad.
Only if you are caught up on the money aspect which, scents from all directions indicate, isn’t the sticking point.
If it’s about the money, the UFC offer is the best. If it’s co-promotion, then they need to stick to that conviction. They don’t even know what excuses they want to use, always straddling between the two.
Or it’s more than just one. Any other fighters have complained about UFC contracts, but not while in the UFC – that’s career suicide.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
Well.....
While the UFC definitely has its problems and limitations, that go along with any sports monopoly(or near monopoly). I look more to the Fedor contract talks from the big sticking point which was admitted by both parties. Co-promotion. In my mind I understand where the UFC is coming from. Fedor is not and has never been a proven PPV seller. I think his biggest selling show was estimated at 80-120K. So he is a big risk that needs development and allot of money in promotion. And asking to co-promote(sharing in 50% of revenue) is like going to a car dealership to buy a rare car, paying over top dollar and agreeing to let the manager and salesmen drive it half the time. It doesn’t make sense. Does that mean Fedor doesn’t want to fight the biggest challenges?, not necessarily. Thats another debate entirely.
I see your point, but it does cut both ways. Neither side should sign a contract they aren’t happy with, and if no middle ground can be reached – so be it, both sides walk away and do their own thing.
I am fine with that. What I don’t understand is the hostility against Fedor from the UFC aficionados because he won’t accept a contract he doesn’t like.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
"UFC aficionados"
hahaha, I really don’t think think they gave you the warning for using the word “fanboy”. Or did they?
either ‘fanboy’ or ‘irrational’. I’m trying not to take any chances. :(
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
it sure sounds like you’re sensitive about it, you mentioned it in three or more comments about it already… let it go dude.
He asked, I answered. Please stop trolling me.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
oh, so now I'm a troll?
sorry man, it’s just a slow day and your funny. but you seriously take things too personal, I guess you can’t take different opinions lightly… no problemo…
It’s not guaranteed, but what contracts really are guaranteed?
Yes, Fedor wouldn’t get millions if the PPV sold 100,000 buys, but is that really a concern at all?
I don’t think it’s out of the question to look at the payout for 1 million PPV buys as “guaranteed” for his fight with Brock
Maybe they feel burned because Affliction promised more than they were able to do, but it doesn’t make sense to question the UFC’s selling power.
As I said
I think money is only one of the issues, and it doesn’t even seem to be a big one at that. But the difference between guaranteed $30 million and possible $30 million is a big one :)
(disclaimer: I would accept either offer)
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
I understand that if you take everything from Fedor’s camp as gospel (not saying you’re doing that) there is a long list of problems with the UFC contract.
But, if you look at those things individually, it doesn’t add up in my head.
It would take 2 miracles, SF catching fire and doing awesome on PPV (or network TV) AND Fedor’s fpotential fights in the UFC bombing for the SF deal to be worth more money than the UFC deal, so i don’t count money as a legit reason.
I know they claim to have a bunch of reasons, but I don’t really understand any of them, forget all of them added up.
I understand that if you take everything from Fedor’s camp as gospel (not saying you’re doing that) there is a long list of problems with the UFC contract.
And vice versa – which is why I am convinced that it’s something in the middle. Neither side is to be fully believed.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
Why can’t it be that the UFC wanted to be greedy bastards and M1 wanted to be greedy bastards as well? What does one of them have a monopoly on being a greedy bastard?
lol
I think you’re probably right.
Both sides have their own interest in mind and try to get the most out of the deal. When neither side bends over, we get this stalemate.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
But isn’t wearing M-1 gear in the octagon do more for promoting M1 than “co-promoting” with SF?
Between the additional money and exposure he would get in the UFC, I don’t really see how any of that stuff applies.
Unless I’m missing something huge, if they think the SF deal is better financially, they odn’t know what they’re doing.
The problem M1 is....
They do not have good business sense. They have contributed disproportionately to the busting out of now how many promotions?. They have a bit too much hype without substance, sure they have the #1 heavyweight, but he is unproven from a marketing standpoint, yet they strong arm their way in and get way to much for what they are giving. I don’t know why people sign deals with them, honestly.
They must be doing something right. What they do benefits themselves, much as what the UFC does benefits themselves.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
I'm really confused...
what do you want him to do? Throw up armbars? Work a rubber guard?
It’s pretty typical “striker behavior” to hold on for the stand-up when you get taken down. Cro Cop made himself a nice little career doing just that.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 4, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
What’s confusing about it? It’s ABSOLUTELY ridiculous for a guy to come out and say… hey, I’m basically going to hold onto Fedor to get a stand-up instead of… here’s a concept, trying to IMPROVE my ground game enough to escape or stand back up. At least try instead of holding on to someone and holding down their posture.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 4, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude, if Nogueira couldn’t figure out a way out from underneath Fedor I don’t think Rogers is going to develop a good enough ground game to in a single camp. He’s strong enough that he has a much better chance of grab and hold than developing a ground game that is better than anyone else ever taken to the ground by Fedor.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 4, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, you’re probably right, but I’d rather the guy try to figure out some way to use his weight advantage to roll Fedor over than hold on for dear life. I don’t think he can hold Fedor down, so if Fedor comes out… slips one flurry and downs him… it’s over.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 4, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
This is what I was thinking too, Brent. The guy is speaking off the cuff and isn’t exactly going to go into detail about his strategy. “I intend to frustrate Fedor with my butterfly guard, then allow him to pass to half but only to bait him into an electric chair sweep.”
Not to mention that he didn’t actually say he was just going to hold on and wait for a standup. He said he was going to “hold him and get back up”. Waiting for a standup is one way to interpret that, but he could also be saying that he’ll try to control Fedor’s posture and work his way back to his feet. It’s really pretty vague.
by JRN on Sep 4, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
ummm
He is a can, and if fedor loses… then he lost to a can… what has rogers done??? please dont say AA
THE BIG "IF"
Rogers beats Fedor.. He’ll be signed to the UFC within 6 months to a year.. Fedor’s stock will plummet more so than it already has & Strikeforce will lose out on the momentum they tried to build up in Rogers.. Rogers want’s the UFC (he’s stated as much) He’ll go when the contract is offered in a heart beat.. Strikeforce is like Affliction at this point.. All their eggs are in 1 basket.. Gegard & Jake Sheilds are the only other 2 that the UFC would even care to pick up.. I dont think they’re as interested in Diaz as some would speculate either..
Jake has no competition and honestly neither does Mousasi .. ?? Honestly after this fight with Rogers, neither does Fedor.. So it all fall’s back on.. What’s the point ??? Not much to build on after this one.. Overeem isn’t appealing to anyone in the mainstream .. He wont fight in the US anyways..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
You really have no idea of what the term “can” actually means do you?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 4, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Please educate him.
"He built his whole reputation (as a) waffle house chef. They've been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes." - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
a can is a medal object that usually contains consumable goods inside. examples of this incredible technology is the coca-cola drink that has a can version. it’s very popular in today’s consuming goods!
can
is also a “krautrock” band formed in West Germany in the 1960s
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Such Technical Beauty...
Look at that wonderful defensive boxing and footwork from Arlovski that Rogers deftly outmaneuvered…
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Sep 4, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I can’t imagine how pissed Roach got when watching the fight.
by David_ on Sep 4, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What is your point with this? He knocked out a top 10 heavyweight in the first round. Does it not count because it was too ugly for you?
by JRN on Sep 4, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
By that logic, Shane Carwin is a can as well because he has done exactly what Rogers has done in MMA. They both fought lower-tier competition, yet their latest win is against tougher and more high-end competition.
"Cans"
do not defeat top 10 heavyweights, nor do they have undefeated records. Cans are jobbers—guys with records more like 8-42.
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
See Shannon "The Cannon" Ritch
"He built his whole reputation (as a) waffle house chef. They've been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes." - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
I think Werdum is more rounded than Overeem, he also has a win over him. But that’s just my opinion. As for Rogers, that’s really the best plan, to try to hold Fedor down and tie up the fight in hopes to get stranded back up. He’s really no match at all for Fedor on the ground.
I still think Overeem has better stand-up than Werdum, and Overeem is highly underrated in his top game. Of course, he’d have to get it there.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 4, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't sleep on Rogers
He is huge, and the size difference might give Fedor trouble in the clinch and with throws. Rogers also has knockout power in his hands, and Fedor has been caught before (see: fish dancin’ with Fujita). I think a lot of people are underestimating Rogers … including Fedor.
And don’t believe everything you read pre-fight about strategy. If Rogers did have a ground plan, why would he tip Fedro?
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
True.
but the “don’t sleep on him” cliche is becoming a little played out. Rogers is a heavy handed brawler with no ground skills whose only HW relevance was knocking out a guy who was weeks removed from being in a russian roulette contest.
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Funny how the most vulnerable Fedor has ever looked was against the Fujita.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
Disagree
I would say that the most vulnerable he looked was during all but the last few seconds of the Arlovski fight. In the Fujita fight he got tagged on the button. Practically everybody’s going to wobble from that. We knew that if he recovered though, he was going to be at a clear advantage once again. In the Arlovski fight he was being outmatched skill for skill. He didn’t have anything for Arlovski, and Arlovski was having his way with him. He looked like the weaker fighter.
We all know what happened next though.
The thing is, AA was using some really crisp Freddie Roach style boxxing to pepper Fedor (not much else). But Fujita nearly KO’ed Fedor! If it was not for Fedor’s cyberynetic implants, he would have lost conciousness, luckily for Fedor, whenever he gets hit that hard he just fights on auto-pilot.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
How is being completely out on your feet not the most vulnerable he’s ever looked? Give me a break.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 4, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I’m not taking the word “vulnerable” in the same way as everyone else. Everybody’s going to get wobbled or dropped by a flush powerful punch on the button. Yes, he was hurt against Fujita, but getting caught didn’t take anything away from his perceived skill as a fighter. His standup didn’t look vulnerable, he just got caught.
Arlovski was a different story. Arlovski’s done better than any other fighter against Fedor. He was out-fighting him for several minutes uncontested. Fedor’s standup looked absolutely vulnerable against Arlovski’s technical disciplined striking. Fedor had nothing for him. Then Arlovski tossed that discipline out the window, and the fight was over. Clearly the outcome says something about Fedor, but those first several minutes of that fight also exposed potential technical vulnerabilities in Fedor’s fighting game. That to me is a much more interesting statement, and take on the word “vulnerable”, than pointing out he got wobbly when he got tagged on the button.
You are correct, we’re talking about two different types of vulnerability. Fedor was vulnerable in the sense of almost out in the Fujita fight, and vulnerable in the sense of getting owned in the stand up in the AA fight. Although the Fujita fight was the most impressive comeback :P He was seriously out on his feet and on auto-pilot.
the most vulnerable Fedor has looked
was when he was neck-breaking suplexed by Kevin Randleman. I though Fedro was dead. But he seemed mostly unaffected thanks to his ability to tuck his head and take a fall (Judo FTW).
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
fish dancin' with Fujita
already mentioned above in my original reply.
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
the dead fish dance
is a patented dance move… try it at the bar, girls love it
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedor has looked vulnerable a number of times… Marc Hunt, Randleman, Arona… he just weathers storms. On top of his judo, sambo, grappling, submission and knockout strengths, he has a mental attitude in a fight that imho is unparalleled.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
by mythbuster on Sep 4, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Randleman was the same size. He was a 177 lbl NCAA champ. Now imagine him fighting monsters like Carwin, Lesnar, Valasquez, guys who were heavyweight champs. Guys who hit like a ton of brick. Guys who ground and pound people into submission. Now take into account that most of the guys Fedor beat have lost once they transitioned to the UFC by guys who nobody would have given a chance to win before they won. Fedor then turned down big money to fight in the UFC to fight in a lesser show with no PPV.
Is it any wonder that people think Fedor is ducking the UFC?
Well, that’s why there are 2-3 serious threats in the UFC and no more. Carwin, Lesnar and Velasquez imo are the only threats in the ufc but you have to take into consideration that Fedor and his management team are looking at it from a business perspective just like DW. They’re thinking about growing their company, not necessarily a three-fight deal with the UFC.
“Fedor turned down big money”… according to who, Dana White? You have to put in perspective, you’re thinking of big money for an individual fighter, they’re most likely thinking in company money down the line, you really can’t separate the two at this point.
Is it any wonder that people think Fedor is ducking the UFC?
Ducking the UFC?
As I said above, it isn’t for the greatest fighter to bend over for the lesser fighters, its for the lesser fighters to prove themselves against the greatest fighter. Couture tried to do this (but the UFC prevented that).
There is no reason for Fedor to sign a contract that he doesn’t like simply so UFC supporters can watch him fight the ‘flavor of the month’ (so to speak).
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
As I said above, it isn’t for the greatest fighter to bend over for the lesser fighters, its for the lesser fighters to prove themselves against the greatest fighter. Couture tried to do this (but the UFC prevented that).
This is such Fedor appologist logic. The UFC gave him a 30 mil deal to have him fight “lesser” fighters. He refused. You want the UFC fighters to leave the UFC to fight Fedor in Strikeforce? Ludicrous.
A non-guaranteed 30 million which could be cut at any time, and as has been said many times, money wasn’t even one of the biggest sticking points.
Also:
This is such Fedor appologist logic.
Actually it’s common logic. “To be the man you have to beat the man.” not “To be the man, you have to go around looking for people to fight, even if it isn’t in your best interest.”
Also.. “ludicrous”. It doesn’t offend me and I don’t flag it but be careful – people are sensitive around here to, ya know, words.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
A non-guaranteed 30 million which could be cut at any time, and as has been said many times, money wasn’t even one of the biggest sticking points.
That’s interesting because that is the excuse M-1 is using for turning down the UFC offer. BTW, all UFC fighters including Anderson Silva and Lesnar have the cut anytime after a loss contract . But whatever.
That’s interesting because that is the excuse M-1 is using for turning down the UFC offer.
Well, one of the reasons.
BTW, all UFC fighters including Anderson Silva and Lesnar have the cut anytime after a loss contract . But whatever.
Right, so I don’t understand your problem with Fedor saying it?
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
I don’t mind when people complain about Fedor not signing with the UFC. They can complain that he made a bad business decision (although “he turned down 30 million” is getting old, since it’s been proven false). They can complain he’s managed by morons. They can even complain that it just sucks because we can no longer see a lot of match-ups we were wishing for. It’s when people start saying he’s ducking fighters that I recognize they’re not fans or fanboys of the UFC, they’re zealots.
I’ve posted it before. Here a list of fighters he has either fought or planned on fighting in the last 18 months:
Tim Sylvia (rated #5 at the time)
Randy Couture (current UFC heavyweight Champion at the time)
Andrei Arlovski (#2 at the time)
Josh Barnett (#2 at the time)
Brett Rogers (top 10)
I don’t see him ducking competition. I see him not getting the fights done, which is something you can also complain about. But not that he isn’t willing to take them.
Absolutely
Contrary to an above exchange, I do think that saying he is ducking fights/fighters is calling him a coward, which has been shown, over and over, to not be the case
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
Not really...
It depends on your perspective, if your defensive and looking for a negative description. Then yes. But someone can be ducking for many more reasons than just the challenge of the actual fight/fighters. And I think it is clear that, despite what Fedor says, he is handled by some pretty serious and smart operators.
You need to stop including Randy in that list.
There was never a higher than 5% chance of that fight happening without him signing with Zuffa.
Well, Randy is a warrior and all that… top tier now? I’m not buying it. Randy and Nog looked like they were fighting under water.
No, I loved the fight and really respect both fighters, just pointing out that Randy, or Nog for that matter, should be considered threats to Fedor and is an illustration of less than top-tier talent in the UFC. I think Carwin or Velasquez would destroy either.
My underwater comment was a take on how slow each of them looked… did any one else think it looked crisp?
Affliction’s whole game plan was to have Fedor fight Couture. They were convinced they Randy could get out from his contract. I think their actions speak to this: Randy “retires”, doesn’t fight for a year: Mark Cuban signs to promote the fight; Affliction announces a three ppv deal with Fedor; Randy and Fedor shoot promotional material; Couture and Cuban take it court. Even though it never happened, it doesn’t take away from the fact that they planned on it happening.
The original plan for Affliction was for Fedor to fight TIm, Randy, and then the winner of Arlovski/Barnett. In June of 2008 that was viewed as a “murderer’s row”.
They’re plan was stupid.
There was no chance of him getting out, there was no chance of that fight happening outside of the UFC.
He doesn’t get credit for “attempting” to fight Couture then the same way he doesn’t get credit for Millen saying that he’ll fight Brock right now in a gym. Making an unrealistic plan doesn’t count for anything.
It might have been stupid, but everyone involved was convinced it would work, until extra-specially fucked it up.
And as for Lesnar, I guarantee you he would fight him tomorrow if it was a one fight deal. In fact they have offered that several times. And for good reason the UFC turns them down. Why would the want to give him the chance to win and become the ichiban of the HW class to all their fans? What does that prove, since it wouldn’t happen? Nothing, except to perhaps disprove the fact that he’s ducking fighters because he’s afraid.
the UFC offered Emelianenko a three-fight contract with a guarantee of less than $2 million per fight
“The number is based on Zuffa’s projections of what Fedor’s take of the PPV money would be, and the numbers they are projecting are based on selling a ton of PPV’s. The actual guarantee for Fedor is much more modest. It’s true that if business stays at record levels Fedor could walk away with $30 million. But that is no guarantee.”
http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/07/30/fedor-emelianenko-turns-down-three-fight-ufc-contract/
Was does everyone quote this and ignore meltzer coming out and saying that 30 million was very reasonable to get.
And it was less than 2 million guaranteed, but it would take the card bombing terribly to get him paid less than 2 million.
So it wasn’t “guaranteed” but it was essentially guaranteed.
Sidenote: why does noone cry poor when an NFL rookie signs a 70 million dollar contract and the only way for them to reach the max value is to win 2 super bowl mvps in the first 5 years of their career?
If you say he was offered a contract where he could potentially make 30 million I’m not going to complain. But by saying it was 30 million, as if it was guaranteed, that’s misleading – As in “He’s crazy turning down 30 million!”
At about 1 million buys, which is a big buy rate, it was supposedly close to 3.5 million dollars. That great money, but it isn’t 30 million. (I know it’s actually 21 mil over six fights but hey)
And as for the rookie: Because when a rookie signs such contracts it’s always reported as that they have the potential to make that much if they meet all their targets.
I’m not saying he’s crazy for 30 million, I’m saying he’s crazy for turning down the contract. period.
That’s fair, and your entitled to your opinion. My comments were specifically targeted towards two arguments: That Fedor is ducking fighters (as in afraid), and that Fedor turned down 30 million as if it was a confirmed number. Both of those seem factually false.
So it wasn’t "guaranteed" but it was essentially guaranteed.
Essentially guaranteed is not guaranteed. If it’s not in writing, it’s not guaranteed.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
But is really the only thing relevant to the discussion.
The amount of money Fedor would get for 500k ppv buys is not actually guaranteed, but it is guaranteed.
Lets say Fedor would get 3 million for 500k ppv buys (pulling number out of my ass)
The contract does not guarantee 3 million. But in the real world (where this all is taking place, not some dream world) He is guaranteed 3 million dollars because any fight he does with the UFC has to get that many buys.
guarantee
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
weoweoweo is the best… and I <3 Vera cause he is pogi.
THANKS mythbuster!
tried to post the Randleplex myself three times but couldn’t figure out how to cut-and-paste GIFs.
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
even if Rogers did, it would not affect the fight if he were to say he gives a 5/10 to his ground game (as it did not affect the fight with Maia vs Nate). He’s just being obvious, and it wouldn’t change the outcome of the fight if he were to say it.
As for the puncher’s chance, I’m kinda hoping it will land :P
I don’t buy it. I watched Fedor toss Blagoi Ivanov like a shot put during the Sambo Championships, and he was a bit bigger than Fedor, but weighed about 20-30 lbs. more.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 4, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly, and its not like he hasnt trained with/ fought against huge guys before. This isn’t huge in the Carwin or Lesnar sense either, its mass and man boobies
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
And in Sambo, those guys are specialists in defending and executing throws. Is Brett Rogers?
Still picking Brett Rogers by TKO.
Well, that was what the basis of the answer was:
He is huge, and the size difference might give Fedor trouble in the clinch and with throws.
In that arena, I think Fedor steamrolls him.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 4, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
If I was in Brett Rogers’ corner I would tell him to adopt a low fighting stance, and aim for Fedor’s chest so he has a chance at hitting something.
I’m telling you – bet on Rogers. He’s gonna be a huge underdog and the UFC’s luck has been so good that Fedor losing might be the next shoe to drop for the competition.
In his former life as a lowly street beggar, Dana White saved 28 children from a fire in an orphanage. God is now repaying him with the UFC.
The line’s already up. You can get Rogers between +400 and +475. And that’s nowhere near the odds you need to make that profitable.
But yeah, go ahead and bet on the guy who was changing tires a year ago.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
just to put underdogs into perspective
Tony Danza was just a lowly garbage man before he become the garbage picking, field goal kicking philadelphia phenomenon.
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL wow
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 4, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Rewatch the AA fight
“Arlovski was probably one of the better opponents recently that was able to avoid being thrown down,”
Fedor didn’t try to take AA downl; it was AA who tried to take him down.
And you’re blind…. thanks for playing.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 4, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedor loves big slow power strikers. His hand speed and accuracy just chews them up.
He’ll tag Rogers at will early in this fight and finish him with an armbar when Rogers throws his arms up to try and avoid the Russian’s ground and pound assault. This fight will be about as competitive as the Sylvia fight.
This is one of the big problems with trying to hold down posture against Fedor as well. Your arms are extended to his neck or back, and with his speed in the transition game… it could be over in a minute.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 4, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Rogers could fake an injury to bait Fedor too….
"There’s loopholes in everybody’s game, and in his game, the way I see it, he can sometimes get a little sloppy. He is a patient guy, but when he feels that he has to give, he kind of rushes it a little bit. Just on that, I can kinda set him up for a knockout just by faking an injury or something, just jump in and out his offense a little more than not. Hit and move. Hit and move. Fedor, he’s definitely done and proved to the world that he’s capable of doing whatever he needs to to get the job done. That right there –- that’s the type of fighter that I’m looking forward to fighting because it’s all about testing your might and he’s definitely got it to test."
Sherdog.com
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I don’t see this being effective too , but I’m still pretty sure that’s what Fedor did to Andrei … I think Fedor exaggerated the effect of that push kick to lure Andrei in. Just a theory tho…
Wand also used that tactic versus Chuck (though it didn’t work)
And Mark Coleman admits to ‘playing possum’ himself.
it was hilarious when wandy did it
and it was on the very first shot that Chuck connected. I thought to myself; “at least wait a little bit!”
One of my favorite moves is when Marcus Aurelio will flop down after being hit in hopes that the other fighter will pounce into his guard. I thought it was a great tactic, until I finally realized that no one ever goes for it.
a lot of BJJ guys used to do that, even Big Nog. I have always hated when they did that though, and would wait a long ass time to get up and looked around like they were baffled as to why the striker did not follow them to the floor.
im gonna put money on Rogers.
i’m a big fan of my fellow Russian! but for me its a win win situation if Rogers wins i get paid … if Fedor wins i see a great fight. win win anyway you look at it…and i do urge yall to do the following. you might make some quick cash!
Fedor wins he beats a can, Fedor loses everyone will sing from the roof tops. This is NOT a fight I was interested in seeing. Most fighters who join the UFC struggle and lose (Cro Cop, Nog, Rampage, Herring, etc). Their popularity still grow because of the level of competition they are fighting. If Fedor loses outside the UFC his mystic and aura will be gone. So will his paydays.
Being a UFC champ > any other promotion champ in the world today. If Brock defends his title 2 more times, I will have him #1 HW in the world. Fedor will have to beat Moses and Jesus to convince me otherwise. Being the homerun king of Japanese baseball doesn’t carry the same water as the MLB.
Hypothetial:
If Lesnar fights twice in the next year and beats Carwin and Nog and Fedor fights 3 more times and beats Rogers, Overeem, and let’s say Barnett after he has beaten Silva, would you rate Lesnar number 1.
To make it even more of a dilemma the Nog fight is very close, but Fedor destroys his opponents., would you still move Lesnar to #1?
I can give you
my account name and password if you would like to post for me. Otherwise please don’t post my opinions for me. Thank.
Maybe if he
beats Rogers, Werdum, and AO. I think AO is very very overrated, same with Barnett. If Brock struggles to win 2 and Fedor destroys those 3, I will still have Fedor #1.
This is how all comments should end after two parties have stated their cases!
by Riney on Sep 4, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If this was Sherdog I would have called you a “cocksucker” and you could come back at me with “faggot”
mmajunkie would be similar, but the cursing wouldnt be allowed so it would be a lot of nonsense insults.
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
thats perfect
+475 for Bret is good. and also Riney….dude common Brock will not pass through Shane. then Brock will be….# 29 with only 4 wins and 2 losses. cant wait. im very tired of the UFC hype machine. how can anyone say Brock is number one in the world with only 5 – 6 fight? plus he fought the same guy twice…..cmon
he crushed couture, mir, and herring.
if he bests carwin in a similar manner, i will consider him #2.
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
i already consider him 2, actually 1, but since i cant substantiate it with wins i have to say it like its in the future
by Austin Martin on Sep 4, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Rogers ain't a can damnit
Ranked 7th in Sherdog , don’t know where he’s at in bloodyelbow but bottom line he’s top 10 . It’s getting kinda old but I’ll keep saying it whenever I see Rogers is a can comments.
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