Antonio McKee Talks the Two Sides of MMA, Sport vs. Entertainment
by Leland Roling on Sep 30, 2009 4:30 PM EDT
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Jeff Sherwood over at Sherdog.com grabbed an interview with former IFL fighter Antonio McKee this afternoon on the Savage Dog Show on the Sherdog Radio Network. During the interview, McKee revealed that there has been some discussion that he will be taking on Takanori Gomi toward the end of October. While this is obviously a rumor, I wouldn't be surprised if McKee is pulling one over us. But I'm definitely interested in seeing McKee take on some better competition, even if he's nearly 40 years old.
Other interesting tidbits from the interview included McKee's view of his own fighting style. His interview with Jordan Breen in February was fairly controversial and upsetting to many fans because McKee stated that he doesn't really care about the fans:
Unfortunately my style of fighting is not really what a lot of fans choose to see. But, you know, it's the smart way to go at my age and, not only that, if you can't stop what I do than it's kind of hard for me to stop doing it.
McKee's conveyed the same sentiments in his interview, but he has stated that if he were paid more... he would be a more exciting fighter because he knows he'll take some damage if he tries to be more exciting. He talked about how he's been working to improve his submission game in order to finish opponents, and he's specifically stated he won two divisions at the U.S. Open BJJ tournament with four submissions.
McKee's major point that I found quite interesting was how the sport is still in the gray area between the WWE and being an actual sport because of the entertainment factor. He talked about how the NFL and NBA are sports, but also entertainment -- yet athletes in those sports aren't allowed to showboat excessively. The interesting part I found from his comments were that McKee simply fights to win and be the best at what he does. He does not care about the entertainment factor to any degree, but seeks "perfection". Perfection for McKee is taking hardly any damage and dominating his opponent.
As with any debate however, McKee's argument has flaws. McKee is still a guy, as Brent pointed out in a previous article, who is very selfish. He argues that he's the greatest fighter, promoter, and businessman, which is something I'd love to see him prove. While the man obviously has a huge chip on his shoulder, I'm one of the very few fans out there who doesn't really care about the entertainment side of the coin when it comes to match-ups, but I do understand its importance to the sport growing.
McKee also talks about fans "scoffing" when fighters win by not taking damage, and how it's ridiculous that MMA is this way. I'd have to actually agree with McKee here. I understand fans want to be entertained, but I'm still under the rule that if you can't stop a specific style like McKee's, you don't deserve to win. Obviously, it isn't going to win McKee a six-figure contract by any means, but you have to, at least, respect his hard work and dedication to becoming a dominating fighter. I mean, there are still fans who aren't sold on Machida because of his style, which is miles more entertaining than that of McKee's.
At the end of the day, McKee is truly somebody I'd like to see fight at a top level, at least once. If this Gomi fight actually happens, it's a true test to his style. McKee may be an outspoken guy who has some misconceptions about specific issues within this sport, but I believe that his view on the sport is respectable. He's simply wins performing in a "sport" rather than "entertaining".
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I actually like McKee
and would like to see him get a shot at some big time opponents but Gomi ought to be the kryptonite to his super-layandpray strategy.
I’d also like to see McKee vs Ishida sometime — we’ll see who the real power wrestler is.
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McKee vs. Ishida… would be awesome for fans of McKee, but I can see that fight being a real tragedy for fans on the UG who hate him. Of course, they probably hate Ishida too then.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 30, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Gomi has shit on wrestlers in the past.
I agree 100% with Mckee here. Winning is the most important thing first. Without a true ranking system, the arbitariness of titles and big fights will continue. Hokins may be the boringest boxer out there but he gets big money and big fights.
One of the examples he used was the Mayweather fight. Regardless of how boring he is in running and punching, he flat out tooled Marquez.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 30, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I also like McKee, a frustrating grind out leaving an opponent helpless. Smothering and relentless… it’s delicious.
LOL… it’s funny how there is a complete disparity among fans. You either love him or hate him, but I find it almost humorous how dominating he can be.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 30, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think the sport of MMA would suffer at all if fighters felt no pressure to entertain. Some guys would still go toe-to-toe (or go wildly for submissions a la Hideo Tokoro) because that’s how they feel most comfortable, and some wouldn’t. But since we’re in this middle ground that McKee describes, we get guys like Chris Lytle, who I honestly have no interest in ever seeing fight ever again.
by JRN on Sep 30, 2009 4:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
it is entertainment in terms of how much you get paid.
becasue the fighters who put the most butts in seats gets paid the most.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
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I do agree with McKee about MMA still in that fine line between sports and sports entertainment. I would also love to see McKee step up and face some top competition to try his style on. Just look at his record thats the problem most of those boring decision wins came over sub par competition that he probably could of finished off. The best fighter he ever faced was Karo and thats one of his L’s his best win’s are a split decision against Marcus Aurelio and a decision over Edwin Dewees
other then that Aurelio win his record is filled with lower to lower mid level competition.
I hate the sport vs entertainment argument because it’s nonsense, this is how the real world works.
QBs get more than linemen. Basketball players get paid more than lacrosse players. Actors get paid more than garbage men. The people that bring in the most money get paid the most, it’s a pretty simple formula.
How often does it happen in e.g. football that a QB who isn’t a top flight player nonetheless gets paid tons because the fans love his persona, or something like that?
I mean that as a real question. I don’t watch football.
I don’t see how that’s really relevant since that doesn’t happen in MMA, but I assume you’re trying to imply something about Brock, and tons of people in all sports get paid a shitload based on potential, especially coming out of the drafts. If you want a quarterback example the easy answer is ryan leaf. 2nd pick of the draft, many people said he should be picked ahead of peyton manning, he signed a 4 year 31 million dollar contract and played 25 games in 3 years with a record of 4 and 17 as a starter and 14 TDs and 36 INTS
Actually, Brock hadn’t even occurred to me. I was going for some analogy with dudes that get kept around or promoted because their fighting style is perceived as crowd-pleasing.
What I should have asked was: does it ever happen in football, or any other major team sport, that a guy gets paid big bucks by management for something that has little or no relationship to their value as a player (in terms of winnings games)?
Again, think Chris Lytle: the guy has made more money for himself fighting stupid, and putting himself in unnecessary danger, than fighting smart.
then i guess the sports example would be an enforcer in hockey, they don’t put up a lot of stats, but they help the team win.
Like Lytle or not, he puts asses in the seats, and he’s not as bad as everyone likes to make him out to be. All his losses lately (except marcus davis, and he’s top 20) have been top fighters. The BE rankings have him at 21. No matter what you think about that, he should probably be in the UFC.
If the enforcer helps the team win, then that’s not what I’m thinking of.
Lytle does belong in the UFC, but look at his career stats: 17 submission wins vs. 4 KOs or TKOs. And when’s the last time he bothered to take anybody to the ground? These days he wings wild punches and takes more head trauma than is necessary in a quest for FOTN bonuses. The fact that he’s still remotely effective is a testament to how good he might be if he fought smart, but that would conflict with his bottom line.
Since you brought up other sports as an example of how the sport vs. entertainment discussion is silly, I thought I’d ask whether there’s an analogous situation in other (non-combat) sports.
You don’t really have an example in mma, so I don’t see why I really need an example. say what you will about lytle, but he’s still one of the best fighters in the sport as a top 25 fighter.
People do stupid things all of the time.
Tony Romo played a great game monday night because he didn’t try to do too many stupid things, and his team won, against the giants he decided it would be fun to pretend he was brett farve, and his team paid for it.
OK, but we’re talking about a clear pattern here. It’s not just the Davis fight. I brought that one up because it’s a great example of a fight Lytle lost but should have won.
The point isn’t that Lytle is bad, the point is that he’s opting not to play to his strengths because it makes him more money. I know of no analogue in pro team sports.
His strategy has lead him to be a near top 20 fighter, I don’t know what more else you want from him.
People and teams in other sports make bad strategy decisions all the time for whatever reason. Shit, Jerry Jones just put a giant TV where it could interfere with the play of the game just to for publicity.
I would argue that it’s his grappling—note again 17 sub victories vs. 4 (T)KOs—as much or more than his striking that’s gotten him to where he is. And it’s his grappling that he’s largely abandoned as a strategic focal point in his last several fights. If he’s “near top 20” now, he could almost certainly be even better—again, consider that he most likely could have beaten Marcus Davis on the mat.
People and teams in other sports make bad strategy decisions all the time for whatever reason
But do they—players, I mean, with respect to their performance on the field—do it deliberately because they think they’ll make more money from it?
Players in the NBA and MLB always seem to play a lot better when they are going to be a free agent at the end of the year.
Lytle is a top 25 fighter, he gets paid like a top 25 fighter. if his ground game could propel him further up the rankigns, he is the only one that is suffering because of that.
Players in the NBA and MLB always seem to play a lot better when they are going to be a free agent at the end of the year.
OK, but this is playing better for money, not worse. It’s the exact opposite of what I’m talking about!
The whole point about Lytle is that he’s an example of how the sport/entertainment split plays out differently in MMA than elsewhere. Lytle performs less effectively in the interest of entertainment, which clearly conflicts with sport in a way that QBs getting paid more than linemen doesn’t. And the phenomenon extends beyond Lytle. Think Sherk vs. Penn, or Kosheck vs. Paulo Thiago.
by JRN on Oct 1, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I kind of beg to differ. QBs usually make more because they are more important to a team, having more control than other player over the offense. But a poor QB, even if popular with the fans, will not be favored over a more valuable linemen or reciever. For the Cleveland Browns Derek Anderson sells an infinite amount more Jerseys, and draws infinite more press and fan attention than Joe Thomas, but Thomas an OT gets paid more. Why? Because he was viewed as a more important asset to making them a winning team.
In team sports nothing sells tickets like a winner. Hell, the NY Knicks put together one of the ugliest, least interesting teams of the early 90’s and they still sold tickets, because they won. Generally players are paid for their skill level, or their perceived skill level, Endorsements is where they compensated for their personalities or style.
Yes! This is what I’m talking about. “Nothing sells tickets like a winner” is simply not true in the same way in MMA.
by JRN on Oct 1, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say it happens as much because of persona, but a lot of quarterbacks have a big season then resign for a HUGE amount based on that season and can never replicate it.
I agree!
Leland Roland, I got to give you credit! You made the Machida connection. Lyoto Machida has consistently stated that he will stick to Machida Shotokan karate. He has said he’s seeking perfection.
Anderson Silva has stated he is seeking perfection and trying to improve. He’s exciting with the striking game, not so much with the ground game. Silva concerns is about being able to fight without incurring little to no physical damage.
Kenny Florian has echoed the same sentiments, talking about how he really appreciates Machida’s style. Florian’s last to fights, the loss to Penn and win over Huerta tells you that although he “finishes” fights . . . he’s going to fight HIS fight.
Here’s another comparison for you.
Floyd Mayweather Jr. understands that fans LOVE the brawls like Corrales vs Castillo but he has said he would never be in a brawl like that. Why? Because it doesn’t make sense to take unnecessary shots like that.
I can go on and on with more examples but many fans fail to understand the risks involved, especially the rewards for some MMA fighters. At the beginning of most fights, the referee informs the fighters, “YOU MUST PROTECT YOURSELF AT ALL TIMES”
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BE readers please comment on this Mckee quote from a recent Fanhouse interview:
Mckee: "Dana White, they all know me. Who do they got to beat me? BJ Penn? C’mon dude. At 155 I’d kick BJ’s [butt] and everybody knows it that knows me. They’d go, “he would tool BJ.” Why? Cause BJ he ain’t got cardio. You see him lose every one of his fights. Why? Because he gets tired. McKee doesn’t get tired."
Not that familiar with Mckee. Is this just ego or can he really crush champs?
Forward Ever, Backward Never...
He has a solid record. He sounds very confident, hopefully he will talk his way into the Octagon and show and prove.
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by VeeisAnimated on Sep 30, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a bit of his ego talking…
But McKee’s cardio is ridiculous. I’ve seen the guy go through some wars, and barely be breathing.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 1, 2009 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions
he also had a similar interview with MMA Fanhouse where he said he plans to stand:
For me personally, I really don’t give a s—t about the fans. This is a sport, I don’t look at it as entertainment, and if I was looking at it as entertainment, I would go to acting school. I’m a very cagey fighter and I fight to win. This particular time I’m at a weight class where guys are weighing the same as me. At 155 pounds, which is more my weight class, I just don’t worry about getting hit or getting knocked out.
.
All I’ve been doing in this training, is that I got a boxing coach and I’m a very fast learned, very athletic, so once I learn the basic combinations, I was able to utilize my athleticism to take it from there. I think what’s going to be a key factor here is me being in there and out of there and not being able to be hit but able to hit. I haven’t done any ground for this fight. I haven’t trained any takedowns which I know that’s what they trained cause if you study any tape of me, one of the things you constantly see is me slamming people on their head.
.
So I think he’s going to come out gun-shy with his takedown and I’m going to knock him around a little bit and by that time — if I haven’t finished the fight already – he’s in la-la land and then I’ll take him down and ground and pound him or get back to his feet and finish him there. But either way, I’m looking to finish this fight, I’m not looking to go five-five.
On defeating BJ Penn, and the UFC guys:
Dana White, they all know me. Who do they got to beat me? BJ Penn? C’mon dude. At 155 I’d kick BJ’s [butt] and everybody knows it that knows me. They’d go, “he would tool BJ.” Why? Cause BJ he ain’t got cardio. You see him lose every one of his fights. Why? Because he gets tired. McKee doesn’t get tired.
…
I don’t know who you have to beat me at 155. Who? Clay Guida? Sean Sherk? I had a fight with Sean Sherk and he turned it down. Because my strength is their strength but I’m better at it. I‘m the best wrestler in mixed martial arts right now. There’s only one guy that’s running neck-to-neck with me and that’s Mo Lawal. And Mo would tell you the same thing, “McKee is probably the best wrestler in the game [of MMA].” Pound for pound? 155 pounds? I’m not trying to be cocky. I’m just telling it as it is.
"His interview with Jordan Breen in February was fairly controversial and upsetting to many fans because McKee stated that he doesn't really care about the fans:"
I wasn’t upset about that interview because he said he didn’t care about the fans. I was upset about that interview because he said “faggot” about five times while at the same time decrying how shitty it was to be a black guy in MMA.
He’s a homophobe and a hypocrite. That’s why his last interview sucked.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Sep 30, 2009 8:37 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
So this ended up being a very timely piece
My personal thought on this is that winning is what is most important. Being exciting has it’s own risks and rewards, and is generally preferable, but, for me at least, winning comes first.
Obviously this may not be the case for all fans, fighters, or promoters, but that is OK—the relative values underlying sport are not defined in stone, nor could/should they be.
As far as McKee himself goes, love him or hate him I think we can all agree that the man gives a heck of an interview. And his camp is top notch. I’d like to see him fight more top competition, but his somewhat confrontational attitude and positional style sometimes seem to work against him in almost as many ways as they work for him.
"Yeah we came up short today but I'm cool with things." -- Juan Pablo Montoya
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