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Dissecting the UFC's Welterweight Division

Georges St. Pierre battles Josh Koscheck at UFC 74 for a shot at the title he lost at UFC 69 to Matt Serra.

The UFC's welterweight division has recently become a major focal point of discussion around the MMA community and here at BloodyElbow.com. Mike Swick's concussion sustained in training for the #1 contender match-up with Danish kickboxer Martin Kampmann caused a major change in the plans by the UFC to pit the winner of Swick vs. Kampmann against Georges St. Pierre. Swick was replaced by newly-signed British Muay Thai striker Paul Daley, and it was perceived that Kampmann would be given a title shot when he defeated Daley. Unfortunately, Daley abruptly put a stop to that assumption as he stopped Kampmann with quick, heavy punching prowess at UFC 103.

Following the upset victory by Daley, there seems to be no clear-cut contender for Georges St. Pierre. BloodyElbow.com readers responded to our own Kid Nate's post asking whether a Grand Prix could revive the division, and three hundred-plus comments later... the debate hasn't been settled. Some fans felt that a Grand Prix tournament toward the lower-to-mid echelon areas of the division would bring about some solid contenders to the upper-echelon talent, new blood if you want to label them. Others felt that the Grand Prix tournament format could bring about a new #1 contender or a rematch battle for a fighter who has truly earned it. In any case, it's safe to say that the UFC will likely stay away from that format.

What can be done within the division? In order to get a better understanding of what would be a viable solution, let's take a look at a rundown of the upcoming bouts in the division:

Anthony "Rumble" Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida @ UFC 104
Mike Swick vs. Dan Hardy @ UFC 105
John Hathaway vs. Paul Taylor @ UFC 105
Jon Fitch vs. Ricardo Almeida @ UFC 106
Karo Parisyan vs. Dustin Hazelett @ UFC 106
Marcus Davis vs. Ben Saunders @ UFC 106
Phil Baroni vs. Amir Sadollah @ UFC 106
Thiago Alves vs. Paulo Thiago @ UFC 107
T.J. Grant vs. Kevin Burns @ UFC 107
John Howard vs. Dennis Hallman @ TUF Finale 10

List of Inactives: Matt Hughes, Martin Kampmann, Josh Koscheck, Carlos Condit, Dong Hyun Kim, Matt Serra, Frank Trigg, Paul Daley, Brad Blackburn, Johny Hendricks, Mike Pierce, Mike Pyle, Jake Ellenberger... etc.

Obviously there are an array of match-ups that have no meaning for contention on the list. Johnson vs. Yoshida is probably the cutoff when it comes to relevance. The winner of that fight will be within reach of gaining some more meaningful bouts. Swick vs. Hardy is a #1 contender bout at this point, and I would imagine that Fitch could be in line for a shot after the winner of that bout if he defeats Almeida. What the list does point out more so than the match-ups is the fights that cannot happen.

 

Star-divide

Matt Hughes is still the most intriguing fighter in the mix in terms of his record and legacy. While he's lost some fights in more recent times, he's only lost to a surging Thiago Alves and current champion Georges St. Pierre twice. I don't find it completely ridiculous that Josh Koscheck, even jokingly, calls out Hughes for a fight, and I don't find it odd that Paul Daley is now doing the same. Hughes is still ranked fairly high (he's #4 on the BloodyElbow.com/SBNation Consensus Rankings) on most sites because the losses were to top-notch fighters.

Daley and Koscheck are two of the names in the mix toward the top of the inactive list, and that might be a fight the UFC is willing to try. It would, however, force Koscheck to revert to his wrestling style, something they may not want to see. Kampmann won't fall down the ladder that far, but I'm wondering if they would be willing to risk a fight with Dong Hyun "Stun Gun" Kim after his loss to Daley. It'd be an intriguing battle as their skill-sets are fairly well-rounded. Trigg vs. Serra might be an interesting fight as well, although I'm still on the bandwagon to see a war of heels in Baroni vs. Trigg.

Ultimately, there isn't a real answer to how to solve the question as to who will take on Georges St. Pierre. The UFC is pushing to put new faces in front of GSP, and Swick or Hardy will suffice for now. Fitch is likely the next in line while the rest of the division battles it out until someone pulls away from the pack. A Grand Prix isn't such a bad idea when looking down the laundry list of names and trying to figure out a #1 contender, but I imagine the UFC will carefully try to create a contender with careful matchmaking.

My money is banking on Paul Daley being eyed as a potential sell for the UFC. Not only does he appeal to the British market, but his style is perfect for attracting both British and American casual fans. If they can somehow put him against competition that doesn't present a huge threat to him on the floor and justify it, I think he'll find his way into contender talk among the UFC brass, but probably not by us. Daley vs. Koscheck could prove to be a fight that could put him over the top, especially if Koscheck continues his hunt to be exciting and strike with such an accomplished puncher like Daley.

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picking nits with the picture caption… the ufc74 fight with Koschek was not for the title. That was during the Serra Era!

by Stanlee on Sep 29, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions  

i think the caption meant that he’s literally, DEFENDING against an attack

by nastyem on Sep 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Caption is wrong on the photo. He wasn’t champion during that bout.

by ACCBiggz on Sep 29, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, yeah...

I changed it before I posted, but I’m having problems with BE’s editing controls all day long.

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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hardy should NOT be this close to a title-shot.

What is happening looks like what happened in the middle-weight division and the UFC seems content to let it happen.

by nastyem on Sep 29, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

The problem with Fitch is

If you give him another shot at GSP he becomes Rich Franklin where he has to either move up or down to stay relevant.

Are Matt Hughes or Matt Serra ever gonna fight again? I have heard nothing on either man since UFC 98.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Ok that was in May

You look at the other fighters on that card.
Machida- Fighting again in October
Evans- Supposed to be December now most likely January
Sonnen-October
Edgar-December

I could go on but wont. Almost every fighter has fought, is scheduled to fight, or got injured before a scheduled fight.

That’s all I’m saying we havent heard anything about even possible opponents. I mean will they fight before May 2010?

by bigdmmafan on Sep 29, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Fitch gets beat again, which is a good possibility… I’m curious as to what he’ll do. Will he actually move to a different weight class?

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess he could stay but he would be nothing but a gatekeeper

at that point or I guess he could pray for GSP to lose because that is the only way he would get another title shot.

That’s the thing people dont understand about Dan Henderson and Nate Marquadt. Yes they earned their rematches but if Silva dispatches of both again then they can only become gatekeepers until Silva loses or retires.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 29, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, gatekeepers are normally referred to as fighters who are keeping the gate to the upper-echelon of talent in the division. Fitch continues to prove he’s one of the best fighters as he continues to win. He’d be in a similar situation to Franklin. The best “contender” in the division that can’t beat the champion.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

But eventually he would begin to lose relevance in mma

Kind of like Franklin. Dont get me wrong Franklin is still a good fighter but not considered elite like he once was.

Losing a close decision to Hendo, beating an over the hill Wand, and getting ko’d by a resurging Belfort is not helping his cause.

Yes the Hendo decision was close but going 1-2 in your last 3 fights doesnt help anybody and it really doesnt matter who the fights were against.

Franklin is going to be fighting at 205 and would anybody here consider him top 5? how about even top 10? and before you answe think about all the guys like Machida, Rua, Rampage, Evans, T. Silva, L. Cane, Lil Nog, Griffin, Mousasi, Jardine, and if you rank Anderson at LHW as well.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 29, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, he certainly would lose relevance as a contender with a second loss, in my mind, exactly like Franklin. Hence why I’m thinking he would have a decision to make…

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, that actually makes sense.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Underchamp?

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 29, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mid-Boss

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Sep 30, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Add in that he won’t fight AKA boys and he would be screwed.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Sep 30, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Fitch because he is a tough as dude,

but I cant realistically classify his losing as a “good possibility”. Even with the tiny gloves these guys wear, Fitch has relatively no power & essentially zero chance of ever defeating GSP. I feel bad for the guy, but the same thing has also happened to Franklin (another of my favorites) & in MMA thems the brakes.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Sep 29, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can’t classify Fitch losing as a “good possibility”? I think GSP might simply outwrestle the hell out of him.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I meant was saying his chance of losing is only a good possibility.

In my mind, it is more along the lines of an inevitable outcome.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Sep 29, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed…

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I feel bad for Fitch

just like I do for Franklin. They are just screwed & have no hopes of ever reaching the top of the divisions owned by Senor GSP & Senor Silva.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Sep 29, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m ok with Swick vs. Hardy for the title shot… I believe it’s the best the UFC could do.

by Nick Thomas on Sep 29, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Agree completely,

this really seems the only viable option at this time.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Sep 29, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I sort of disagree as hardy’s biggest win to date is a split-decision to marcus davis who is at best a gatekeeper.

He’d have to highlight reel Swick’s face into orbit to convince me he deserves the chance to be humbled by GSP in a title fight.

That’s just me though

by nastyem on Sep 29, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fine, then who would you suggest Swick

face to sort it out? Swick has said that he has no problem fighting other AKA guys, but I have yet to hear any of the other AKA guys say the same thing.

Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.

by dnevil001 on Sep 29, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Swick/Koscheck is definitely a winner for me but those AKA kids are a whiney bunch. And in the meantime get a WW GP started

by nastyem on Sep 29, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the meantime, give Paul Daley a shot. What the hell? I know he’s not Vitor, but having him fight Kos, Fitch or Alves, is likely to just prove he can’t beat GSP. Honestly, anyone with speed and knockout power has a better chance than a well rounded fighter, or a great grappler. GSP will not be out wrestled, or out grappled on the ground. Daley is as likely to land some good shots as anyone in the division…

by Kwisatz Haderach on Sep 30, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

There’s no downside to pushing Daley. If he loses, it was expected because his ground game was lacking. If he wins, it’s probably going to be via devastating knockout, which is great for building him.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 30, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Move him up to kill time. Dont give someone a chance just because there is no one else. We saw how that went with Anderson, it makes for boring fights. God forbid, a nondeserving and uncompetitive guy gets a freak TKO due to injury and we have to sit through a rematch. GSP going up can only help his credibility and gives the division time to sort itself out and generate hype for a big fight.

by ryanwk628 on Sep 29, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Trigg vs. Baroni?

If Baroni loses to Sadollah I wouldnt be shocked to see the UFC cut him. Hell I’m wondering if Rothwell loses to Velazquez if they will cut him. I mean he will be 28 at that point and I think would be a huge mistake but you never know with the UFC.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 29, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, the only logical reason to do that fight is because Trigg and Baroni have mouths. They both play the “heel”, and a public spat of epic proportions could come to fruition if paired. That’s the only reasoning behind it, and the UFC could sell it if Baroni causes enough talk to upset Trigg. Realistically, I’m not sure who the UFC gives Trigg, but I imagine on a competitive scale, they’ll give Trigg someone up-and-coming as a name for that up-and-comer to step on.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or Serra vs Baroni

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 29, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I didn’t think of that either. That would be interesting. The accents might kill off the population though.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is Matt Serra really even relevant in the division anymore? His match with Hughes was interesting because of the feud, but honestly, I’m really not interested in seeing him fight at this point.

by Chadsac on Sep 29, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

No less relevant than Trigg or Baroni, but that wasn’t the point of the thread.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 30, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Hughes is still ranked fairly high (he’s #4 on the BloodyElbow.com/SBNation Consensus Rankings) on most sites because the losses were to top-notch fighters evidently most MMA rankings are done by Matt Hughes fanboys.”

I fixed it for you. Though I could have been just as accurate with:

“Hughes is still ranked fairly high (he’s #4 on the BloodyElbow.com/SBNation Consensus Rankings) on most sites because the losses were to top-notch fighters the only thing less relevant than guesses are averages of guesses.”

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.

by jemaleddin on Sep 29, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions  

The difference is that some rankings try to be objective versus subjective. In the objective world, Hughes should still be in the top 5 or 7 realistically. If we add in factors such as his performances and how dominated he was by GSP, some fans would drop him further due to his drop off in skill.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

And how he was dominated by Alves.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.

by jemaleddin on Sep 29, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have asked this before and never get an answer- if Hughes should be lower who would you put above him?

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 29, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you think he could be Kos or Swick? I don’t. There’s 2.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.

by jemaleddin on Sep 29, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do I think he could? Sure. And Hughes doesn’t have a loss to a Paulo Thiago recently and it’s not like Swick has just been running through top 10 guys lately.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 30, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I don't put a lot of stock in the Paulo Thiago loss.

Paulo just kept putting his head down and wading in throwing overhand rights. It was sloppy but he got lucky. Good for him. But let’s not pretend his striking looked good that night.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.

by jemaleddin on Sep 30, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would imagine that all of the following WW’s would be betting favorites versus Hughes as of today: GSP; Fitch; Alves; Swick; Kos; Rumble. And I’d guess that Kampmann, Almeida, Hardy, Karo and possibly even Daley would all be close to even money bets. With that in mind, there’s no way Hughes should be considered Top 5 in the division, and even Top 8 is somewhat questionable until he beats someone other than a woefully undersized and one-dimensional Matt Serra. His last meaningful victory was 3+ years ago against Penn, who was fighting 15 lbs north of where he belongs.

by Velcro on Sep 29, 2009 5:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Except odds don’t factor in, nor do the perceived skill of the fighter. Wins and Losses do.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention future schedule.

Never forget the Fedor bump.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.

by jemaleddin on Sep 29, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t flawed logic. Rankings should be more heavily weighted towards a fighter’s present day ability, rather than past accomplishments.

by Velcro on Sep 30, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think it’s flawed logic at all… especially if you give yourself a timeframe. Fans want IMMEDIATE changes to the rankings all the time, but Hughes’ drop in ability will show itself in the end. He’ll eventually drop. It just pisses everyone off that he hasn’t yet.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 30, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

^^^Either that or guys who are fighting at a high level more consistently will eventually pass him. But the only remotely objective may to measure present-day ability is by fighting accomplishments. Until Hughes loses to lower-ranked guys, he won’t have shown how much his skills have really deteriorated, and he won’t drop.

by JRN on Sep 30, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would imagine that all of the following WW’s would be betting favorites versus Hughes as of today: GSP; Fitch; Alves

Those guys are ranked ahead of him so what’s your point?

Swick; Kos; Rumble

Maybe, maybe, no.

And I’d guess that Kampmann, Almeida, Hardy, Karo and possibly even Daley would all be close to even money bets.

And your guess would be wrong. Almeida? Karo? Seriously? Hughes would be minimum -200.

With that in mind, there’s no way Hughes should be considered Top 5 in the division

So because of the fact that you’re a horrible MMA handicapper Matt Hughes should no longer be ranked in the top 5? I don’t follow that logic.

His last meaningful victory was 3+ years ago

When was Johnson’s last meaningful victory? Or Karo’s? You are using some pretty poor arguments here.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 30, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Everyone seems to be forgetting Ricardo Almedia’s drop to welterweight. Though it is mentioned in your list, I think to a lot of peoples surprise, Almedia is going to beat Jon Fitch — and if he does so convincingly, I think he could get a shot.

Remember, Fitch has never really been stopped, so if Almeida dominates him and finishes him impressively, I think we could have a new contender in our midst.

by goodbones on Sep 30, 2009 1:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Almeida isn’t beating Jon Fitch. Almeida has some great BJJ moves, and I’ve been a big fan. He could be a top 5 guy in the division, but he’s going to get peppered from the outside by Fitch, or top controlled.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 30, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fitch’s biggest strength is his durability. His main game is to stifle his opponent on the ground and not do much else — the guy is unable to finish fights.

I think Ricardo is bigger and stronger than Fitch, and I think he could out grapple him.

by goodbones on Sep 30, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would love to see a tournament style competition done over multiple events. It would be huge for the UFC. Plus, I think there are some sleepers in that pool of talent that would do very well. Guys like Dustin Hazelett and even Marcus Davis could surprise a lot of people by making it deep.

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by Stay Down on Sep 30, 2009 6:40 AM EDT reply actions  

I totally agree with Kwisatz Haderach for Daley. Although I doubt he would beat GSP, he has the better chance than almost anybody in the division because he is faster and deadly on the feet. If GSP tries to stand just a little with him it could be lights out. I don’t think he’s earned it though.

I don’t know about you guys but I still don’t get why Swick is up there in the contendership, whjo has he beat? Marcus Davis? Ben Saunders? Same goes for Kampmann and Hardy.

Almeida has very little chance of winning against Fitch in my opinion, because winning is exactly what Fitch does. Fitch will grind out a decision, play it safe, not get caught. Fitch has excellent submission defense, and subbing him is Almeida’s only chance.

by blawa on Sep 30, 2009 7:56 AM EDT reply actions  

You don’t get why Swick is up there? Seriously?

Well, for one… he’s a new face. You’re right that he hasn’t beat the best competition, but the UFC likes to push fighters who are on the outside looking in who aren’t past contenders. He’s also had a number of exposure fights on SpikeTV, so he has a somewhat built fanbase with those appearances. It isn’t about skill here or who he’s beat.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 30, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I understand that, I just don’t know why he is considered a lock. He has just as much to prove in my opinion as most of the guys up there.

What I meant is: Why is he UP THERE, as in top 2 contender.

by blawa on Sep 30, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because he’s 9 and 1.

by goodbones on Sep 30, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

(in the UFC, of course)

by goodbones on Sep 30, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

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