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Alistair Overeem, Fabricio Werdum Won't Add Interest With Weekend Performances

The past weekend's array of combative sports' action offered many fans a look into two of MMA's most influential pieces to a fighter's skill-set. Not only were fans treated to seeing some of the most devastating kickboxers in the world at the K-1 World Grand Prix 2009 Final 16 event in Seoul, South Korea, but MMA fans were also given the opportunity to view the Abu Dhabi Combat Club world grappling tournament that featured a plethora of well-known mixed martial arts fighters. While the arguments are that both Werdum and Overeem have added some interest to bouts with Fedor due to their wins this weekend, I think Overeem only gained the potential to add a lot of interest down the road while Werdum didn't add any interest to a showdown.

As Kid Nate pointed out earlier, some writers have pointed to the potential benefits from having both Alistair Overeem and Fabricio Werdum participate in K-1 and the ADCC tournament respectively. Michael David Smith lays claim that Strikeforce could promote Overeem as the best heavyweight striker in MMA due to his win over Peter Aerts at the K-1 WGP Final 16, and Fabricio Werdum as the best heavyweight grappler in MMA due to his tournament win at the ADCC event.

Casual fans may believe those claims, but hardcore fans aren't that easy to trick. Fabricio Werdum was already considered to be one of the heavyweight division's best grapplers in mixed martial arts. He only solidified that statement with his win this weekend. Instead of saying that Werdum is one of the best grapplers, we can now say that he is the best heavyweight grappler? There isn't much distinction there, and I doubt casual fans will become overly excited about a Werdum vs. Fedor showdown when they hear the words "ADCC champion" sound out of their televisions.

Overeem's advancement to the World Grand Prix Final is more of a story than Werdum's accomplishment. Stating that Overeem is the best striker in the MMA's heavyweight division because he won a K-1 fight against a former three-time champion is a bit unfair considering the lack of crossover athletes to K-1 from MMA. I understand it's all about the marketing of the moniker, but it's a bit ridiculous. The potential of the situation is the true benefit to Strikeforce because Overeem may have the chance to truly prove he is one of the best strikers in the entire world, MMA or K-1. Defeating a fighter like Semmy Schilt or Remy Bonjasky within the context of their own sport would be huge, and Strikeforce could leverage that win in a couple of different ways.

Most notably, Strikeforce has talked about the possibility of holding a co-promoted event with DREAM in Japan. Whether this is simply a loan of fighters with a revenue share or an actual 50/50 split down the middle, Overeem's presence in K-1 could add interest to the co-promoted events between DREAM and Strikeforce, especially if he happens to win the K-1 WGP Final. The win would likely garner more interest in a Fedor vs. Overeem showdown in the States among hardcore fans, but it would also potentially drive a lot of K-1 fans in Japan to co-promoted events featuring Overeem. If Strikeforce could somehow co-promote a Fedor vs. Overeem showdown that worked into DREAM's television deal, it could do some big numbers overseas. It's a longshot possibility, but there isn't much more Strikeforce can leverage from Overeem's run in K-1 other than the added credentials.

I think it's a bit premature to believe Overeem's win over Aerts will suddenly give Strikeforce some sort of marketing edge in promoting a "best striker in the world" against "best fighter in the world" showdown with Fedor Emelianenko. Werdum's accomplishment, while a great individual feat, doesn't help Strikeforce. He was already considered a top-notch grappler in the heavyweight division, and the win at ADCC over the weekend isn't going to cause a stir among casual fans wondering who will fight Fedor. Overeem's accomplishments overseas have the potential to do so with the right marketing, and if he actually manages to win the K-1 Grand Prix... the skill gap that most fans immediately assume between the two fighters will becoming closer, adding more interest.

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Overeem knocking out Hari isn’t enough to place him as one of the best strikers in MMA?

The problem with both of these claims is that average Joe doesn’t know what K-1 is, or who any of the K-1 fighters are. Same for ADCC. So even granting a solid factual basis for these claims, the will still look like puffery to most people because they don’t know enough to be impressed.

by toxic on Sep 28, 2009 2:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You’re second remark is what I’m going after moreso than Overeem actually defeating Hari. K-1 has a big fanbase overseas, but ADCC is virtually non-existent to casual fans.

Overeem beating Hari was impressive, but I think the rematch will ultimately decide who is better. Hari was visibly scatterbrain when he fought Overeem. A second time, if Overeem beats him, it’ll be a legit concern for whoever Overeem would take on in the final.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 28, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overeem is a beast

All 3 of his recent K1 fights have shown his physical dominace. Even the “loss” to Bojansky seemed like a judges robbing to me.

He threw all 3 of these guys around like rag-dolls.

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Sep 28, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the Aerts performance shows what Overeem presents, although things change with smaller gloves obviously

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 28, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That knock down was legitimate. Overeem’s knees buckled. And to my eye, he spent most of the fight doing non-scoring dumps and generally looking like a hulking roid beast.

by toxic on Sep 28, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think a second fight with Bonjasky would be much more telling. I think I recall Bonjasky having problems with one of his legs/ankles/knee. That’s been Remy’s bread and butter throughout his career.. flying kicks, knees, and punch/kick combos.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 28, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For sure.

Bonjasky beat Overeem with a bum leg, and he would probably stop him at 100(ish)%.

I don’t even think it’s debatable that Alistair is probably the best HW striker in the game right now tho. A ton of people talk about how overrated he is, but I think that a good deal of the hype is warranted. Now that he seemingly has a gas tank and has hulked out, his already strong grappling just rounds out his explosive standup game.

Standing, you’ll get knocked around, in the clinch you’ll get kneed and/ or ragdolled, and on the ground he has that guillotine from the bottom (as well as being great at getting back up); if he’s on top of you, you’re either getting swarmed with strikes or keylocked.

The only guys I think can beat him are Fedor, and possibly Lesnar or Carwin (of which I give Brock a better chance).

Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.

'09 is the year of the FW's.

by ElliotMatheny on Sep 28, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overeem dominated Bojansky

Rewatch the match. The knockdown was from Overeem losing his balance more than anything. Bojansky just landed a little hook at the end to make it a knockdown. Shady scoring IMHO

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Sep 28, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He dominated Bonjansky with non-scoring technique. All those dumps he did are non-existent from a points perspective. Aside from that, he didn’t do much.

And the knockdown was a knockdown; he came in low, got hit, his knees buckled and he fell. It’s very clear from certain angles, other angles not so much. But it was legitimate.

by toxic on Sep 28, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overeem was holding his own in the beginning of the match, he even hurt Remy. It wasn’t a one sided affair at all.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regardless of who got the better of who in that match,

the president of K1 poisoned the judging pool with his pre-match comments on the match.

by Razreshat on Sep 29, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except That...

Rogan use to say K-1 level striker in every broadcast.
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah maybe these accomplishments don’t help strikeforce PROMOTE fights with werdum/overeem. but i think it helps them JUSTIFY the fights. it gives them some credibility within the industry to say that these guys are legitimate challengers.

by GregS123 on Sep 28, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I think the accomplishments over the past weekend could help justify those fights to hardcore fans. It certainly doesn’t help from a standpoint of selling the fight, and that’s ultimately what Strikeforce wants. We can sit around saying it justifies it, but it is a business after all.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 28, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said From Nate's Post:

I Will Take It A Bit Further than just talking about the HW’s…

Werdum
Jacare
Galvao
Cyborg Santos

…all had GREAT showings in ADCC for Strikeforce. This is without Roger Gracie competing, who would be considered the best Grappler in the world (who is now scheduled to fight the Nov. 20th event in Strikeforce).

Mousasi and Overeem have already shown to be successful in K-1, so Strikeforce should have no problems in marketing that they have some of the best grapplers and strikers in MMA.
 
Xande had a great showing as well (Sengoku) and Braulio Estima was a stud and a rising star.

For those that say K-1 or ADCC doesn’t matter because its not MMA. I can guarantee you that 99% of people now want to see Estima in MMA and will be highly touted, just like Jacare and Galvao were only about a year or so ago, and the many who have wanted Drysdale to make the switch. MMA is mixed martial arts, so when someone excels at a certain discipline, it will get people talking and it will definitely hype up the fighter.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

To be fair, Gegard beating Musashi doesn’t say a whole lot. He was MUCH more improved at this weekend’s past event, but Musashi is past his prime by far. I’d love to see Mousasi against some stiffer competition though.

For those that say K-1 or ADCC doesn’t matter because its not MMA. I can guarantee you that 99% of people now want to see Estima in MMA and will be highly touted, just like Jacare and Galvao were only about a year or so ago, and the many who have wanted Drysdale to make the switch. MMA is mixed martial arts, so when someone excels at a certain discipline, it will get people talking and it will definitely hype up the fighter.

I disagree. Casual fans, the fans that will pay the bills, don’t care. We, as hardcore fans, do care, yes. I’d love to see Estima make the move, and Galvao will only get better.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 28, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why are we talking about casual fans when it comes to Strikforce? Thats what Gina Carano and CBS will be for. I think Strikeforce should not be mentioned in the same sentence with “casual fans” until they get on CBS.

Gina Carano, Mayhem Miller, and possibly Cung Le are the only things that can be somewhat mentioned with “casual fan”, that relate to Strikeforce at this point.

What this does is add more recent credentials as best in the world against the best MMA fighter in the world.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who cares if it adds more recent credentials? I don’t understand why this is a huge addition. Because it justifies the match-up among hardcore fans? I don’t think it adds that much to it at all. Overeem vs. Fedor was already a fight people wanted to see, and Werdum vs. Fedor was an okay battle. It’s still the same stance.

Everyone knew Werdum was an awesome grappler.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 28, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe you are too hardcore to assume that Werdum was an awesome grappler already. Most people, even the semi-hard core fans don’t know, and only remember him for being KOed by Dos Santos, though, that doesn’t seem like such a bad thing the way DS has been performing.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you are underestimating the knowledge of hardcore fans with that statement.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 28, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am just saying that to most, it wouldn’t even matter because he got ko’ed by that one big dude before he left the UFC. Getting a little reminder here and there by winning ADCC and some K-1 fights give positive exposure, which has already been done by MMA Fanhouse, BE, and a few other websites.

More hype, positivity, etc towards a fighter is never a bad thing.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ponder me this

1. K-1 level versus MMA level is not that big of a difference like boxing VS MMA.

2. Fight with boxing gloves versus MMA gloves. Blocking is less effective in MMA. Accuracy counts more because it’s possible to knock a guy out in MMA even when the guy has his hands up.

3. Grappling. In K-1, pushing the guy down doesn’t count. In MMA, being taken down is the beginning of an all out assault.

4. Drug testing.

I’m not saying that Overeem isn’t some sick striker who’s naturally gifted physically. I truly, truly hope that he is. But I want to see him fight on US soil before I declare he’s the 2nd coming of Jesus.

by cyph on Sep 28, 2009 2:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hes fought for Strikeforce in 2007, and he was already starting to bulk up. All signs point that he will be fighting with Strikeforce by early next year against the winner of Fedor vs Rogers.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He weighed 224 when he fought in Strikeforce. I’d wager that is about what he weighed stepping into the ring in Pride (after re-hydrating). He was not ‘bulking’ yet.

by Steve4192 on Sep 28, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No really, that was the start of him bulking up and moving to HW.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m as skeptical as the next guy re AO’s size gains. But you’re fooling yourself if you think using this “chronology” is some smoking gun.

It’s so clearly edited to play some big visual tricks. The pictures are made progressively and markedly taller and wider to create over-the-top exaggeration of change. This stuff is gr. 5 level optical illusion.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Sep 28, 2009 6:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

The only reason K-1 is a huge difference is that they don’t need to worry about takedowns, giving them a bit more of an edge since they train specifically to strike.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 28, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seems like you are a seasoned poster already.
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overeem is a beast, but his accomplishments this weekend mean nothing.

If he can win the World Grand Prix, that may means something. It won’t to a casual fanbase, but it’ll create some huge buzz among MMA media, which may trickle down.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 28, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s beaten Hari and Aerts, and fought a good fight against Remy, something not too many men on this planet can say they have done. =)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which doesn’t mean anything to a casual fan, and it hasn’t received enough press to truly garner a trickle down effect from the media.

If he wins the World Grand Prix, he should receive a lot of interest.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 28, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah if he won the grand prix a fedor fight would make alot of sense in Japan.

With that accomplishment though I really don’t see him coming to the US to fight Fedor unless they break the bank on him.

At that point he could essentially continue to fight and finish his career as a K-1 fighter. I dont know how he’d weigh the risk/reward ratio in a Fedor fight.

by mmalogic on Sep 28, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"NYE" in Japan possibility?

Does the K-1 GP Finals leave enough turnaround time? I’m thinking no – but that would draw some pretty big bucks I’d say.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Sep 28, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overeem is fighting in NYE no matter what.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And he’s also fighting on DREAM 12.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 29, 2009 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alistair Overeem does not impress me. He wins his K-1 match by bullying the other guy, and not by technique. And what is up with Overeem constantly throwing Peter down in his match?

by Bishman on Sep 28, 2009 5:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree completely. They say its illegal but the ref never warns AO about it, but it really is bad enough that he should get points deducted. I’m here to watch striking, not somebody dusting themselves off.

by toxic on Sep 28, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly, I think he’s trying to show that he’s stronger than everyone, and it’s a bullying tactic.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Sep 28, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its called...

Intimidating your opponent and tiring him out. K-1 fighters don’t feel rigth when they are taken down.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I very much enjoy Alistair’s fake giant hammer prop.

by JRN on Sep 28, 2009 5:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That Hammer is so Japanese

by MSEMCEE on Sep 28, 2009 7:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thats a Dutch Hammer.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 28, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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