When Stardom Surpasses Value: The Tale of Miguel Torres and Urijah Faber
by Michael Rome on Sep 24, 2009 5:50 PM EDT
in MMA News
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Miguel Torres and Urijah Faber are big names in the world of MMA. They may not be champions anymore, but they were on top of the world for a long time, and now that they've been knocked off they realize they didn't make any money during their time on top. Accoding to Jonathan Snowden, Faber and Torres want more money:
Urijah Faber has one fight remaining on his WEC contract. He and Zuffa are far apart on contract terms. The WEC's other superstar, Miguel Torres is also unhappy with his current contract. Superstar dissatisfaction is the main reason that Zuffa is considering merging the WEC into the UFC. It would give Faber and Torres bigger potential paydays on PPV.
The Versus network, home to the WEC, was so worried that the promotion was leaving that they opened up tentative talks with Bellator, the Latino friendly group looking for a home after leaving ESPN Deportes earlier this year. As unhappy as WEC fighters are, it's nothing compared to Bellator's woebegone warriors. The promotion will be in a holding pattern through March at the earliest and in the meantime many fighters are desperate to make ends meet.
A lot of people saw this problem coming a long time ago. Urijah Faber often gets bigger cheers when he's shown on camera at UFC events than major UFC stars, but he gets paid peanuts to fight on a network where very few people ever see him. The reason for his low pay is simple: the WEC doesn't make any money. Faber is a huge star, but he's in a company with extremely limited potential to generate meaningful revenue.
A UFC/WEC merger is inevitable at this point in my mind. The UFC is suffering from a main event shortage, and introducing two new titles into the mix would help them handle a schedule that gets heavier every year. With Rampage apparently retiring, Matt Hughes a loss away from retirement, and Randy Couture on his last legs, the company is a stroke of bad luck away from a serious shortage of headline fighters.
I think the best idea is a season of The Ultimate Fighter featuring the stars of the Featherweight and Bantamweight divisions. Pay the fighters enough so it makes sense for them, and expose millions of fans to the warriors of the WEC on Spike TV. Make Brian Bowles and Mike Brown the coaches, and set up big title defenses for them at the end of the season, perhaps even against the winners of the show in each weight class. I think this would really serve as a major infusion of fresh blood into the UFC, and I wouldn't be surprised if a number of future drawing cards emerged from such a season. It would also be nice to actually see some good fights on The Ultimate Fighter.
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I heard Faber was “interested” in Strikeforce as well, as he would be a big star for them, specially since they are from Northern Cali and could use him as a HUGE draw there.
Yeah, but he is MEGA in Northern Cali.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 24, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If that's the case
Then he’ll have plenty of time to heal his hands because Zuffa won’t book him a fight for a long time.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
Thats why he hasn’t been booked yet. They are trying to get a deal done.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 24, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention that Faber vs Kid or Warren would be HUGE money makers.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 24, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
The Japanese know who Urijah Faber is?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 24, 2009 10:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yup. He wen there to corner Joseph in DREAM.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 24, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No, b/c DREAM made a big deal about Benevidez training with Faber. DREAM has spoken to Faber before, trust me.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 25, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Faber mentioned Japan as well
In a recent edition of Inside MMA (#337 – Guests: Urijah Faber, Joseph Benavidez, and Chad Mendes), they asked Faber about what he would do after his current WEC contract was up. He didn’t say anything definite, but he did make it sound like he won’t mind fighting in Japan either.
Here’s some clips from the episode (although it doesn’t include the discussion of what Faber will do next):
http://tinyurl.com/yb7ywa2
Yup..
He said DREAM and Strikeforce (somewhere else since they have a partnership).
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 24, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard Faber was "interested" in Strikeforce as well, as he would be a big star for them, specially since they are from Northern Cali and could use him as a HUGE draw there.
Which is precisely why there is ZERO chance the UFC will let him walk. They might play chicken with Torres, but there is no way they let a major NorCal draw like Faber sign with Strikeforce.
A UFC/WEC merger is inevitable at this point in my mind.
Isn’t this NOT possible due to Versus contract issues with the WEC and SPIKE. I thought they were pretty much going to rough it out until the contract was satisfied.
Well if WEC just closes shop, what can Versus really do?
They can sue Zuffa for breach of contract. The current contract I believe extends at least through WEC 50, maybe around WEC 55 even. It’s actually per-event.
That is all dpendent on...
How Versus pays Zuffa. If Zuffa got their money up front, yes, if they get paid based on ratings, then no. If a company folds, their usually is very little recourse for the parties effected (think EliteXC and CBS.) This includes companies that are owned by a parent company (I.e. Sprint and Nextel.) When Sprint purchased Nextel, they had zero obligation to NASCAR, but because something like that is so lucrative for the sponsor, they signed a new contract.
So without knowing the workings of the contract, Versus may be S.O.L….
Don't argue for the sake of arguing....
by Screwface on Sep 25, 2009 2:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They can add 135 and 145 to the UFC, and then use the WEC as a ZUFFA owned minor league for fighters, instead of just dropping them outright. Of course, they would need to add some of the heavier weights back into the WEC. This would allow them to stay on tv, still promote fighters, and ensure another route for fighters without letting them go to competitors
by MMAWrestling on Sep 24, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but Versus and the WEC would have to be okay with this, which is not a given. Who is to say that Versus would still honor their deal based on these “minor league” changes.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 24, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess it depends on what the contract says. Didn’t they just renew it?
by MMAWrestling on Sep 24, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Inevitable doesn’t mean next week in means in time. I agree. IF the UFC is going to put on as many shows as they said they only way to do it it is bring in more top fighters. At this point they pretty much have the market cornered at 155-265. The major area for expansion with good fights and fighters is the lighter wieght classes
All SOUNDS like a good idea..
But how much PPV exposure will they really get? How many fights will they get with such a large roster.
Imagine the bottom two fights on any recent UFC event aside from UFC100
and tell me two WEC fights between top guys in the 135 and 145 division wouldn’t be more entertaining. First one or two fights on the PPV could be the former WEC guys, the rest of the card is the UFC divisions we have now. Hell, keep the name WEC for the divisions. But I think it would improve the quality of the UFC cards.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
Torres is not a draw
They set him up for a big hometown title defense in Chicago and the place was only half-filled, and that was in one of the secondary arenas in town. The rest of his title defenses were at the tiny Joint at the Hard Rock. Faber is a big draw, Torres, as good of a fighter as he is, isn’t as big of a “star” as Faber.
the wec tuf idea...
is pure genius!
by cagefightonacid on Sep 24, 2009 6:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I like it.
I don’t know if you can make Bowles and Brown the coaches though, you’d have to avoid the conflicts of interest if a title shot is involved.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
Good idea
Although, putting both current title holders on the show would mean they wouldn’t be able to defend their respective belts. So that probably wouldn’t fly.
Better to use Faber and Torres as the coaches. Actually it would be cool to have Faber (who is a bigger draw than Torres) versus some other dude in the same weight division to generate a rivalry during the show. But there aren’t that many big names to pull from WEC. I think Faber and Torres would be a good alternative to Brown and Bowles as the coaches.
But yes, that is a sweet sweet idea man.
I LOVE the idea of incorporating the bantamweight and featherweight divisions into the UFC via the Ultimate Fighter. Here is how you do it…
Have two UFC names as coaches. Have 8 of the best WEC bantamweights and 8 of the best featherweights who are NOT title holders on the show with the winners getting a title shot.
would it be out of the question for faber to move up to lw? on his twtitter he’s recently said that he’s walking around at 160, saying it’s the biggest he’s ever been
Would need to add about ten more pounds of muscle to compete at LW.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 24, 2009 10:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think alot of casual fans look down on smaller weight fighters, I seriously saw a post that said the lightweight division needs to step up. I don’t think the casual fan will be that receptive to the idea and the division will have to be around for a while before those divisons achive success.
I don’t know. If boxing is doing one thing right, it’s their smaller weight classes. Between Mayweather, Hatton, De La Hoya, and Pacquiao, those guys have generated something like 6 million buys in 2 years and all those guys were fighting below 160.
I agree it won’t be an instant success, but if people watch the wars the smaller guys go through via a TUF or some other special, they will pay to see Faber as a co-headliner. You push Torres and you get all those loyal Mexican fight fans for those big weekends (Cinco De Mayo, Mexican Independence, etc.)
If Mexican boxing fans paid to watch JMM get his undersized butt demolished, I’m sure you could sell a focused Torres to them.
by black dragon on Sep 24, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you but casual MMA fans want to see Knockouts and fighter swinging wildly for the Fences you don’t get as much of that in the WEC or other smaller weight classes. In the Smaller weight classes grappling is more involed and casual fans are usually disintrusted. I’m crossing my fingers that more people will give the love the smaller weight classes deserve
by Erich Vowell on Sep 24, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm usually Pro Zuffa but...
Because the UFC is b.s. ing on putting their divisions inside the UFC they should go fight in Japan or for Bellator
I don’t think Bellator can really pay them any more than they’re getting paid in the WEC, especially when you take sponsors into it (yes, ESPN Deportes is really that much smaller than Versus even is). Dream or even Sengoku might be viable options for some of the top ones, particularly Torres and Faber, although any FW or BW would have to fight at 143 lbs. because they don’t have a lower weight class. Also, particularly in Sengoku they might have to deal with Japanese judging bias. Although if they view Faber or Torres as a big start that might not work against them, actually.
we’re already seeing garbage like Vera vs Couture to help carry an otherwise un-noteworthy PPV….we’re watching a ton of crappy higher weight class fights…..i don’t know that the UFC taking on the WEC would show the same number of currently entertaining fights we get on a WEC card…..seriously. we’re suffering with Emerson vs whoever, TUF alumni etc…..Rick Story practically stole the show the other night…..and Yushin Okami will fight Sonnen on an undercard…..
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei.
http://theworldsoldestsport.blogspot.com/
by theworldsoldestsport on Sep 24, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions
There's always going to have negatives with the positives though
And I feel that the positives definitely outweigh the negatives here. With 135 and 145 lb fights in the UFC, these fighters get more exposure which equates to more money for them. For the fans, not everyone has Versus, so having these fighters in the UFC will allow more MMA fans to see them. The quality of the fights will not go down either, but the quantity of seeing many 135ers and 145ers on one card will be lessened. Also, 155ers in the UFC will have the option of cutting further down yet allow them to stay with the UFC.
The Ultimate Fighter
I couldn’t agree more with the TUF idea. I said it in July and I still believe that it would work (barring any legal red tape between Versus and Spike)
MMAMoneyLine
Love the site buddy keep up the great work
by Erich Vowell on Sep 24, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see the WEC going away, but....
I think it’s possible that the UFC might add a FW class, and eventually lower weight classes than that. I wouldn’t mind if they eventually made the WEC into a feeder league for the UFC like it was originally intended to be. They could add a Flyweight class, and transfer the top FWs to the UFC once the Flyweight class was well established with a strong champion. Then they could add a Strawweight class (115) while they held a tournament for a new FeaW champion. Once the Strawweight class was well-established they could send the top BWs over to the UFC. Then they could eventually send Flyweights and Strawweights over at some point too, while rebranding the WEC as a league for developing fighters, something along the lines of “Tomorrow’s MMA Stars Today,” while adding WWs back.
Zuffa should merge the companies just before their Ultimate 2009 show and feature title defenses in both the 135 & 145 weight classes on the card. Round it out with Lesnar fighting someone and maybe Anderson Silva fighting Belfort and you’ve got a huge card that will give massive exposure to the new UFC divisions.
The lil guys need to get paid more.
Like i’ve said before i’m tired of the whinning and crying by fighters who are in no position to be complaining about anything, considering how a few years ago they would be making nothing without the WEC.
If Torres and Faber want to leave the WEC let them, they will find out the same lesson that everyone else finds out when you fight Zuffa. Both guys got stopped and really should be very smart about the next move in their careers, because one dumb move will make them the latest example of letting ego and agents get in you’re ear and mess up your career.
Also the idea that these guys would be instant draws by putting them on PPV is delusional. Very few people know about the lighterweight fighters let alone Torres or Faber, it would take years of building them up for that to happen and maybe even then they might not draw.
The WEC is fine running their org the way it’s been and if done smartly it will continue to grow over the next couple of years. Faber and Torres can either be a part of that or roll the dice but if they do they better be prepared to faill horribly and become jokes just like AA and Sylvia have.
by Raker on Sep 25, 2009 12:51 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I work at a club/venue which has hosted local MMA events.
Following one night of fights where the club was opened back up to the public a man came up to me, having noticed the giant cage in the room, and asked if there had been fights there that night. I told him there had been (obviously). He then asked me “Did Urijah fight?”
The moral of this story is that the popularity and name recognition of Faber and Torres is greater than many people realize or perhaps want to admit. Clearly, the person I spoke to isn’t the most MMA-literate, as evidenced by him asking if there were fights while standing next to a giant cage with people carrying away chairs and him asking if the (then) WEC featherweight champion had fought at our local event.
I would propose that Urijah Faber and possibly Miguel Torres are actually more well known than the WEC is itself and would be able to capitalize monetarily on such public standing much in the same way Andrei and Slyvia have.
In contrast, however, the careers of AA and Sylvia in no way parallel the dominance shared by both Urijah and Miguel prior to their loss of titles. It is insulting to compare two men who have a combined four losses in six years to the relatively inconsistent performances of Andrei and Tim and expect equal outcomes were similar, non-Zuffa paths ventured by Faber and Torres.
You are right it is insulting to Sylvia and AA who have both been part of big ppv’s to 2 guys who seem to think they are bigger than the org who made them names to begin with. Faber was just another fighter until Zuffa brought in Pulver and made him a name fighter and Torres was pretty much lesss than a nobody until WEC gave him a title shot at Chase’s title. The idea that these guys now think they are in any position after getting beat to be demanding anything shows once again how easily these fighters can be manipulated by their agents into making very dumb decisions.
IMO
Torres isn’t just a useless star in the WEC. Give him a match or 2 to improve his skills, and give him another shot against Bowles, and I do think that it will be a competitive fight.
And even though Urijah will likely never beat Mike Brown, he was game in the 2’nd fight, and went the distance with 2 broken hands. In fact, if he strings together another win or two, I see him getting a third shot against Brown. Which will do good ratings, for sure.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
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