"As if Kevin Iole saying last night that one million buys was possible for Mayweather-Marquez didn't kick off enough of a strange, near-violent reaction, I did some asking around myself last night after being somewhat perplexed by the venom the very idea of this brought forth. In short, I went straight to the man who had the sources: Kevin Iole of Yahoo! Sports.
The number could go as high as 1.6 million, as Kevin Iole told me last night over some back-and-forth messaging. Iole told me that a million is "definite," and says that HBO will release the numbers either today or on Thursday."
-Scott Christ at Bad Left Hook
over 2 years ago
Brent Brookhouse
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Before anyone freaks out...
I’m only putting this up because it’s pretty massive combat sports news. I’m not being all “suck it UFC!” by any means. I still think that as long as the UFC card is around 400k buys it’s a success. I never viewed the night as a heads up competition to begin with.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 23, 2009 9:53 AM EDT reply actions
Hater! We all know it!
=)
This is really huge if true. I put those numbers on my post last night and I still couldn’t believe what Iole was saying. Who knows what Pac-Man vs Cotto and the winner for PBF will do. Should be HUGE.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 23, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
The numbers are pretty darn impressive. I guess Mike Rome was right…
Keep sex away from a man long enough and he’ll happily fuck a goat at first sight.
by mmalogic on Sep 23, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but Rome and the rest of us didn’t see this level of enthusiasm coming. My prediction topped out at 600k. His at 800k. If this actually goes into 1.6 million, that’s far beyond what even the most generous among us were willing to believe could be achieved.
by Luke Thomas on Sep 23, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude, I thought 750K was high-end here. I felt like the fight gained some steam in the final days, but that was where I was topping out. A million is downright stunning. More than that is about as unexpected as Douglas over Tyson.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 23, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
The numbers are impossible to predict in this situation… even HBO didnt think it was going to do this well.
The insight of “Boxing fans starving for a big fight” is what I am applauding.
HBO re-tweeted a “Guess the buys” post I did the other day, which was nice of them, and their Twitter operator made a comment like, “We’re guessing 1 million.” I thought it was tongue-in-cheek at the time. Crazy like a FOX?
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 23, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually HBO’s president and Schaefer from Golden Boy predicted 1 million on Fox Business the week of the fight. I didn’t think it would but I’m pleasantly surprised.
Floyd post Oscar is a bonafide draw. And that is great considering fans truly are appreciating his defensive style. It seems most hardcores hate him but casuals love it.
Also what people need to understand is this..
When Dana refers to the UFC being bigger than both Boxing & WWE combined he is right.. This boxing card was in a sense a 1 off event. So while it does big numbers as it did, it still pails in comparison on a whole. The UFC put on 13 PPV’s a year.. They are consistently putting up good numbers for having their product run month to month. Boxing only has a couple big fight cards a year as does the WWE..
What really matters is how they add up as a whole for the year.. The UFC kills it’s competition not just from PPV but also from a total package standpoint. Add in the merchandising, gate sales, sponsorship dollars, etc..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Why does this have to be seen as a competition?
Dana makes it out to be one but it really isn’t and MMA (and boxing) fans feed into it which leaves people constantly scrambling. We had readers posting all over that 103 would beat this show, then it became clear that it wouldn’t so it became “if Mayweather doesn’t do double what 103 does, boxing loses,” now it appears that boxing more than doubled the buys of 103 so it becomes “they can’t do it consistently.”
How about this? How about the MMA number and the boxing number were completely separate things that say nothing about the popularity of one versus the other. The Mayweather card caught people’s interest so they bought it. They didn’t buy it as a fuck you to MMA. Just as when people bought UFC 100 they didn’t do it as a fuck you to boxing and pro wrestling.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 23, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think HBO could do 4 good/big ppv’s per year… the problem is they dont control matchmaking. every fighter is looking out for his own best interests. “Who can I make the most amount of money with the least amount of risk”.
The numbers are EXCELLENT even if they settle down to 1m but HBO isnt happy long term because with every buyer they activate with their promotion the actual fight deactivates a fraction.
You can only over promise and under deliver so many times without it eroding your promotional credibility.
The product now needs to rise up to the level of the promotion. Boxing has a rich history that continues to cushion its decline and forgive the greed that continues to go on – but this will last long.
Imagine if the fight was great… the effectiveness of the promotion increases exponentially.
Cotto vs Pac Man should do the trick.
HBO doesn’t make real money from PPV from what I understand… they get it from subscriptions.
I think people are lured into the event more so than the actual fight… as least the casual fight is unlike us diehards.
From all accounts it is good for HBO to not erode their brand equity like they have had with so many PPVs…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Actually, I think it would interesting to see if UFC or WWE makes more $$$
Besides PPV buyrates, does the UFC release financial info? The WWE is public, so I’m sure they release all their numbers every year.
Mayweather v. Marquez - 1 Million Buys
Literally unbelievable. I find it about impossible to believe that this fight did more buys that Mayweather v. Hatton.
Then again, what I don’t know about boxing could fill a barn.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
Also...
boxing’s shift to less of an “everything on PPV” model does drive buys up on events that SHOULD be on PPV. It’s not that boxing can’t run 13 major PPV’s a year, it’s that they SHOULDN’T and they finally realize that and are doing things the right way while new stars are being created through Showtime/HBO
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 23, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not THAT surprising domestically. The Hispanic audience in the U.S. is incredibly loyal and buy PPVs like mad. Bob Arum is making a small mint on $40 Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. shows right now, shows he couldn’t sell to HBO as a last wish on his death bed. And it won’t be that shocking if it overall tops Mayweather-Hatton, I guess, as Mayweather has become damn near beloved in the UK since he beat Hatton. They see Floyd way differently than a good portion of the US audience does, and part of that is that Floyd acts completely differently to the UK press and fans than he does here.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 23, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
its actually kinda sickening the way he acts over here
even regional title deciders for lonsdale titles here he’s discussed thoroughly mid fight
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Sep 23, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
...
this has to be the mexican contingent that brought in this kind of number; I don’t know any boxing fans from america that were actually interested in this “fight”
That’s more or less my point, too. There was no juice for this fight as far as I could tell. The only people I’ve seen who had mentioned the fight were Brent Brookhouse, Bob Arum, and Dana White. I know Floyd did a spot on a WWE show a few weeks back, but I find it hard to believe that it generated some great interest in the fight.
I understand that there is a large hispanic audience, but I’m surprised that said audience would be so enamored by this fight. Am I wrong, or has Juan Manuel Marquez not been much of a PPV draw prior to the match with Mayweather? I mean, I understand that Mayweather is a draw, but to my point about being surprised that this match outdrew the Hatton match, it seems to me that the Hatton match had far more promotion and it seemed to have captivated far more people that I noticed than the Marquez fight. Mayweather is a draw, but he’s not the draw that a De La Hoya is, as evidenced by a respectable but, to my understanding, somewhat underwhelming buyrate for the Hatton fight.
Then there was the debacle that they called a weigh in. I turned into it, since 101 was showing it following the UFC 103 weigh ins. Man, and I thought the 103 weigh ins were slow. The people in charge of the Mayweather v. Marquez weigh-ins should be fired immediately. Even Colonel Bob Sheridan’s turkey neck couldn’t save this abortion of a broadcast. Standard definition (in 2009!), atrocious pacing, D-list “celebrity” appearances (read: being shoved down our throats), and the absolute worst pacing I’ve ever seen for any sporting event, and I’ve seen backyard wrestling events.
Realistically, I know the weigh in means exactly nothing to the buy rate, but it was so awful that I was hoping that The Lord would intervene and destroy the arena, or have Marquez come down with Piggy Flu, or something, anything to ruin the fight.
On the plus side, we’re only one fight away from seeing the second boxing match I’ve been interested in since Lewis v. Tyson, that being Mayweather v. Pacquiao. I myself have purchased exactly zero boxing PPVs in my life; I will purchase Mayweather v. Pacquiao.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
With Mayweather guaranteeing himself a 10 million dollar plus payday + PPV % as well as with Marquez getting close to 5 million, you have the same scenario that has been the downfall of boxing for the last several years… a few stars and promoters sucking out as much money as possible from the fans for themselves and putting back very little into the sport.
$50 * 1,000,000 = $50,000,000 - $10,000,000 = $40,000,000 - $5,000,000 = $35,000,000 - Floyd's PPV % + Live gate = Success
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 23, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Plus they did the theater bit, and for the record, it’s not known whether that’s being counted in these estimates, but I have to assume it is.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 23, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that it was a success, but for relatively few people at the top. Is any of that $35 million surplus going to go into promoting young boxers? Putting quality fights on free TV to showcase young talent? Planning for future high quality cards? Promoting boxing as a whole? I doubt it. As an aside, I was chatting online with a couple of guys in Manzanillo, Mexico a few days after the fight. They both said they watched the fight Saturday, but then went on to say that they are much bigger mma and UFC fans.
Your question is basically the same as saying “did the money the UFC made off of their last PPV go to promoting young fighter? putting quality fights on free TV? Promoting MMA as a whole? …etc” Much as the UFC, they only have to promote their own product (the promoter’s fighters..etc).
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 23, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think I quite understand your response. Yes, of course the UFC spends the money they generate in promoting their brand and as an indirect result the entire sport of MMA benefits. That’s primarily the reason for the emergence of these local shows and why MMA related gyms are opening everywhere. Don’t get me wrong, I am a boxing fan. I still remember the days of Hagler, Hearns, Duran and when Iron Mike Tyson ruled the world. We’re far removed from that time though. When the supposedly best P4P boxer in the world guarantees himself a huge payday to fight a fighter he knows he will beat, and then deliberately comes in over the agreed upon weight to further his advantage, pays the monetary penalty (because he can) , then is unable to put him away (because he can’t) I lose interest.
People tuned into the fight AFTER the weigh-in so that clearly had no bearing on things. And the idea that somehow a bunch of people watching boxing doesn’t have the same indirect impact on smaller boxing shows that people watching the UFC has on smaller MMA shows is odd.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 23, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry Brent, I guess I’m slow because I still don’t understand the point you’re trying to get across. I was just stating that it doesn’t really matter how many buys this PPV did for boxing as a whole because there is only a small group of people that will be benefitting from those buys.
The sport of boxing is doing fine though. Just because you haven’t heard of most of them doesn’t change that fact
Like I said I am a casual boxing fan and I do read the blogs on Bad Left Hook as well as BE. I don’t see how boxing can be “doing fine” when people haven’t heard of most of its new “stars” and won’t be ordering their PPVs. I also don’t see how the sport can thrive when you have fighters like Mayweather doing all the taking and giving nothing back.
I also don’t see how the sport can thrive when you have fighters like Mayweather doing all the taking and giving nothing back.
What does that even mean? That sounds like a misconstrued Dana White talking point. Of course, when he uses it, he’s refering to the promoters who greedily prevent their fighters from facing off against the very best in the world.
I’m not exactly sure how a fighter, who goes out and fights, getting paid millions of dollars and drawing over one million people to purchase an event on PPV is not “giving back.” Hell, apparently he owes $5.6 million of his purse to the IRS, which to me is giving back in a significant way.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
Mayweather needed money to pay back taxes. He comes back out of retirement to take the safest possible fight balanced with the biggest possible payday. He dupes the buying public into thinking the fight would be fair, comes in overweight to further increase his advantage and decides he can afford to pay the $600,000 penalty since he has his big payday lined up and guaranteed. It was never about challenging himself as a fighter. It was about squeezing $50 out of any remaining boxing fans. And don’t you think Marquez was also hand picked as an opponent because he would bring in many PPV buys from the Latino community? Say what you will about the UFC, but don’t they showcase up and coming talent on TUF and free Fight Night shows, lobby governing bodies to sanction MMA, run free shows for overseas troops, raise money for various charities, and have their stars available for book signings and public appearances? That’s giving back and growing the sport as well as increasing their own profits. If Mayweather wants to give back and make a load of money at the same time, he should fight Mosley or Pacquiao. These are the fights fans want to see.
Isn't there a cut taken by the ppv provider....?
so wouldn’t this be
$50 * 1,000,000 = $50,000,000 -$25,000,000 – $10,000,000 = $15,000,000 – $5,000,000 = $10,000,000 – Floyd’s PPV % + Live gate = Success?
Still probably $10,000,000 revenue but after expenses…this pay model seems to need 1 mil buys just to get comfortably past expenses….
There’s also the live gate, the site fee paid by the MGM Grand (and believe me, that was a pretty penny), and the sponsors like Tecate, DeWalt, etc.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 23, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
How reliable is this news site....don't know much but they claim...
That no site fees are being paid anymore as recently as 9 months ago…..
http://www.boxingconfidential.com/articles.php?id=5949
Conventional wisdom is that Golden Boy garners huge site fees from the MGM Grand and Mandalay Bay but a veteran corporate executive with MGM Grand Mirage, which owns those hotel-casinos and others, tells Boxingconfidential that the conventional wisdom is all wrong.
This man said the site fee paid to GBP and co-promoter Top Rank for Manny-Oscar was, get this, ZERO. That’s right, ZERO.
The executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity, revealed to Boxingconfidential that, even for Pacquiao vs. De La Hoya, all GBP and TR get is a "four wall" deal which means that all the promotional companies do is rent the arena like a rock music promoter would.
The money is well deserved if they put on the best fights available… they don’t put on the best fights available and long term this hurts everybody.
Floyd doesnt care because he’s gonna get and milk his now… same with pretty much every other fighter once they accomplish something and have something to protect.
This is where Zuffa has the advantage in business model because they have to care even if the fighters don’t.
Floyd doesnt care because he’s gonna get and milk his now… same with pretty much every other fighter once they accomplish something and have something to protect.
No offense, but do you still think this is 1998? Guys like Oscar de la Hoya, Shane Mosley, Tito Trinidad, Bernard Hopkins, Joe Calzaghe, Juan Manuel Marquez, Ricky Hatton, Manny Pacquiao, Miguel Cotto, etc., have taken very tough fights after they’ve “accomplished something.” Floyd Mayweather is not representative of the entire sport. As Al Bernstein recently said, as the decade changed, so did the sport of boxing. There have been a lot of adjustments, fights that should be made really do get made most of the time now, and boxing is on a three-year run of actually giving fans fights they want: Oscar-Floyd, Floyd-Hatton, apparently Floyd-Marquez, Cotto-Margarito, Cotto-Pacquiao, the Pacquiao-Marquez rematch last year, the Vazquez-Marquez trilogy went from diehard fan’s dream to a minor phenomenon thanks to the internet, Hopkins-Calzaghe (it did crap TV ratings on HBO, but it was a desired fight and got made), and young stars have finally been getting promoted at least half-properly. Is there still work to do to become an efficient promotional machine like UFC runs? Without question, yes, but UFC has all the advantages there, too. Boxing’s improvements this decade have been remarkable and may have actually saved the sport’s place as even a niche, pay-cable entity.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 23, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Man do I hope the Super Six gets some steam. I mean that’s an idea anyone can get behind. “Prove who’s best by fighting.”
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 23, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
true… but can any of those guys make comparable coin without having to make those fights? Bernard Hopkins said the UFC was good for boxing because they helped force these fights to happen. I think the market forced it.
Besides Pac Man I dont see anyone of them being able to play mayweathers game anymore so yeah you are right. and in most ways the market forced boxing to adjust and boxing adjusted.. Except for Mayweather.
I want to see the best boxer in the world tested DAMMIT.
Oh, absolutely. B-Hop was totally right. Competition — and I hate calling it that or the fanbases feuding over dumb stuff, but if the industries see it that way, then it is — is good for everyone. Boxing had its hand forced in large part by UFC, they had to look at what UFC was doing and thank God what they took out of it was at least partially, “Hey, when fans want X v. Y, they make it happen.”
I think even with the rumored success of this show, Floyd might well be at the end of the rope with fights like this. There are really only three people out there he can fight: Cotto, Pacquiao or Mosley. Any of them are legit tests. Nobody else offers enough money, there’s nobody at 135 or 140 worth money to come up, and it’s not like he wants to get in there with no-money Joshua Clottey, who even Floyd’s dad is willing to praise as “nothing to fuck with,” and Floyd’s dad apparently doesn’t like anyone anymore. Andre Berto isn’t anything close to a draw and Floyd couldn’t get his big guarantee for that. It’s going to have to be one of the three. I really can’t figure out anyone else that’s even possible. Maybe he’ll retire for the fourth straight fight.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 23, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I read an article the Yankees want to hold fights at their new stadium and would like to hold Pac-Floyd
Why not?
Balls get knocked out of there often enough, what’s a couple of guys getting knocked out, too?
"That feeling after you win and they raise your hand... it's like you have this energy that releases from your body, and it's like you mingle with the cosmos, and you feel omnipotent"
lol
Boxing has its 1 or 2 shows a year, so any boxing fan will no doubt get the card.. I dont ever expect a low ppv card in boxing, MMA is all over tv so you can watch when ever you want, boxing is talked about and not so freely available all the time…. But all i can say to the 1.6 million is sorry you wasted your money on that boring ass fight… Mayweather was dominating and still couldnt put the underdog away.. Good job MONEY!
I dont ever expect a low ppv card in boxing
Late last year, HBO PPV hyped and put on two shows that flopped horribly: Pavlik-Hopkins did about 195K on PPV and then the next month, Calzaghe-Jones — with a “24/7” and everything — did 225K, and they expected 500K for that. That was their target. Needless to say they fell short. Those two fights — I really believe this — firmly cemented to boxing promoters that you need to be a little more careful about what you ask people to pay $50 for. Of course, boxing fans had been trying to tell them this for years…
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 23, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok i see what your saying, i guess they have to be pretty selective on who is on the cards if they want big buys. Pretty much have to stack the cards to make any headway on ppv buys
by gecko071980 on Sep 23, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to say my friends are the definitive word on ANYTHING, but,
I don’t know one person who ordered this fight. Not one! Out of the normal 20 or so people I watch MMA/Boxing w/ nobody wanted to get the Mayweather-Marquez fight. On top of that, nobody at my office saw it either. I don’t know man, potentially 1.6million PPV buys and I can’t find one person in Loudoun County VA that watched this fight. ODD.
"I'M GOING TO SHA-BOOMS!"
I do, I do…lol But none of them ordered it.. say they were interested but still didnt order it.
by gecko071980 on Sep 23, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't believe Nixon won
I don’t know anybody that voted for him!
"Yeah we came up short today but I'm cool with things." -- Juan Pablo Montoya
I Explained This In My Post...
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/9/22/1049321/mayweather-vs-jmm-boxing-ppv-beats
Golden Boy and Oscar DLH were promoting the fight like crazy in Southern California. UFC 103 wasn’t even mentioned anywhere other than a Cox or Time Warner commercial, but the PBF vs JMM fight was EVERYWHERE. They got a lot of people to order that fight in the last week. I heard DLH and PBF on the radio, on tv, news papers, etc.
Golden Boy, PBF, and HBO did a HELL of a job promoting this fight in the last two weeks.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 23, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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