UFC 103 Post Fight- Kampmann-Daley Stoppage Warranted or Not?
by ufc4 on Sep 20, 2009 11:36 PM EDT
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There has been an ongoing discussion in the comments of this article over whether Martin Kampmann should have been allowed to continue or if it was a good stoppage by referre Yves Lavigne at UFC 103 last night. The debate seems to revolve around the question "Was Kampmann intelligently defending himself?". So I ask you fellow BE readers, was the stoppage the right call or should the fight have been allowed to continue?
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This is the stoppage in question:
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 20, 2009 11:48 PM EDT reply actions
How about an option for “The stoppage wasn’t objectionable, but another two or three hits would have been ok too”? That would be my vote.
by thekiltedwonder on Sep 20, 2009 11:53 PM EDT reply actions
Not trying to be a smartass but if that is your opinion then you should probably just not vote, that’s more or less saying you could go either way.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
I voted for the first option because I think it was a correct call. I happen to also think giving it a few more seconds would have been acceptable, but the way the question was phrased I felt that the former was much closer to my opinion than the latter.
by thekiltedwonder on Sep 21, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t it awesome when you create a poll, and you write the questions and answers for it? Strange how it generally goes the way the pollster wants :)
Write your own & let's compare the results.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 21, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Give him a minute, he’s re-reading my post to try and find something he can spin to make it look like I fixed the results.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
Since we're re-hashing old subjects:
Brock Lesnar: Threat or Menace?
Keep firing Assholes!
The Leafs are back!
this^
You can’t even begin to know how seriously he is taking this post and this site.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
He was out on his feet. He wasn’t so much intelligently defending as much as he was cowering in pain.
After the second to last shot you could see his eyes go glassy.
Myth seems to think that flailing your hands in the air wildly is the same as intelligently defending yourself.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
Only if flailing them while running away.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 20, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
ufc4 seems to believe that holding your arms up to protect your head is the same as flailing your hands in the air wildly.
by mythbuster on Sep 21, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
How many of those punches did Kampmann’s arms actually stop?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 21, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Not really
If the arms, even if held up by his head, weren’t even blocking anything, is that considered an “intelligent defense”?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 21, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes? Punches get through intelligent defenses too, ya know.
It is a sidestep because we’re discussing ufc4’s definition of “flailing your hands in the air wildly”, not the accuracy of Daleys punches.
By the way, just so you know, ufc4 also thinks the fight was stopped a little early. He changed his tune when he decided that arguing about it would be more fun :)
Source?
Doesn’t matter to me either way – I thought it was fair all along.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 21, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The article this started in, in the thread that we were talking about it…
Here’s your source: scroll to the top of this page, where it says “this article”, click that and read the stuff that you’ve been replying to.
This?
It may have been a few seconds early but is there any doubt Daley would have just kept hitting him and he would have gone down after a couple more shots? Because in my mind there isn’t.
He’s saying it’s a good decision, not the best decision. You’re saying it’s a bad decision. Not the same.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 21, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually what I said is it MAY have been but I also said never said it was a bad stoppage. Like I said earlier, I wouldn’t have minded if Yves let him take a couple more shots but that wouldn’t have changed anything.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
Was he flailing – no. Was he blocking – no. Regardless of whether it’s a sidestep or not, I counted maybe 2-3 punches that Kampmann stopped and nearly all the rest landed. That’s not intelligent defense.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 21, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
What worked out?
And heaven forbid I introduce a new topic to the discussion. Now: was Kampmann intelligently defending himself?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 21, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I went to sleep, sorry. You and Subo tired me out.
Besides, I figured you needed a pee break from hitting refresh and giggling.
Subo?
And I guess you’re “side-stepping” now. Nyah nyah.
Was Kampmann intelligently defending himself?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 21, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
If this hadn’t have stopped it would have been like Kos/Yoshida
Keep firing Assholes!
The Leafs are back!
Aw…that would have been awesome!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 21, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, would people have called it an early stoppage if Kos was pulled back before the second punch, because Yoshida was still on his feet.
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Sep 21, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
You don’t want a MT champion hauling off on a guy who’s out on his feet.
Keep firing Assholes!
The Leafs are back!
Not saying that, just would you say it was a bad stoppage if Kos didn’t get that last punch in?
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Sep 21, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I would, I believe the only reason Yoshida wasn’t flat on his back was because the cage was holding him up.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Sep 21, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the reason there is such a commotion about this is because of the lack of standing KO’s in MMA. It’s a very real thing, weather people believe it or not. There was a point where Martin was completely sideways to Daley and doing nothing but hold his hands up. Just keeping your hands in front of your face is NOT enough when you are getting hit with shots that hard and are leaning against the fence doing nothing. Keep in mind, Daley says Kampmann’s eyes were rolling in the back of his head…
Yves did Martin a huge favor.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Sep 21, 2009 12:09 AM EDT reply actions
Weather people?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 21, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There is a margin for good stoppages, as all stoppages are arbitrary...
He could have waited a few more seconds, but the slow motion distorts the fact that even in real time the beating went on and on with no answer from Martin, so maybe Martin should’ve just…not gotten his ass completely kicked! Anyone who thinks this fight is the poster child for bad stoppages is failing…
by Kwisatz Haderach on Sep 21, 2009 12:19 AM EDT reply actions
It is up to the referee and that is all that needs to be said
As a fighter when you step into the cage you know the fight can be stopped at anytime by the referee and you accept that. Have referee’s made early stoppage’s? Yes but then people also complain when it is a “late stoppage” like the Rosholt-Leben match.
By agreeing to compete in any professional sports with a referee you leave a lot of decisions up to the ref and if you dont like it tough luck.
It’s not the ref’s job to do what the fans want. This particular ref thought Kampmann was not intelligently defending himself so he called a stop to the fight and now a bunch of people that were cheering for Kampmann or bet on him are pissed.
Shit happens guys. Your not always gonna agree with referee’s calls weather it’s mma, football, soccer, basketball, etc.. but you move on and deal with it and just so I’m people know I was rooting for Kampmann but he did get his ass kicked and the ref stopped the fight. Deal with it.
Honestly
Kampmann’s one of my favorite fighters, has been since even before my training @ Xtreme Couture, but it was obvious that he was done. The second he got hit by the shot that stunned him, Martin was pretty much done.
If he had his wits about him, he would’ve dove for a double or tried to slip the punches and get away, but he pretty much backed into the cage, covered up, and waited for the stoppage.
And this doesn’t make him any less of a man/ fighter, it just happens sometimes. Daley was the better guy last night, he stuffed Martin’s TD and emphatically outstruck him. I was on an airplane w/ a HW based out of team Quest (forgot his name), but he was talking about how he was Chael Sonnen’s training partner, and that sometimes a fighter will quit when things get to hard. Basically- Sonnen physically COULD’VE pulled out of the armbar that finished him, but mentally, he didn’t have the steam left to keep resisting.
I still think that Kampmann can recover, and that he has a bright future @ WW
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
Guys need to watch boxing
It happens all the time there. It saved Kampmann. Look at his reaction immediately after: he didn’t even know he was there. What type of sadistic fans want to see fighters go unconscious? This was like Hermes/Fisher
In fact there needs to be more standing stoppages. Perfect example is Smith-Diaz. Absolute no reason SMith was allowed to take hundreds of punches with no offense and continue to fight.
i’m a big kampmann fan, and i thought it was a good stoppage. he was still standing with his arms raised, but he was on queer street and daley was only a punch or 2 away from knocking him cold. this back and forth reminds me alot of koscheck/thiago, which was way worse imo.kos was knocked on his ass and his eyes rolled back and still people thought it was stopped too soon (i think someone posted a poll for it as well). i think alot of these arguments have alot to do with people losing money on what they thought was a sure thing. there’s never a 100% “sure thing” in mma.
Kampmann was out on his feet for the entire duration of this gif. If and only if Daley had backed off and given him a chance to recover, he might have gotten his bearings back. He was basically just working on instinct, trying to keep his hands up – and that wasn’t stopping any of the punches Semtex threw at him.
We need better refs in the cage but we also need to stop doubting each and every stoppage that does not end up in a guy convulsing on the floor.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Sep 21, 2009 3:25 AM EDT reply actions
He stopped Daley from knocking him out cold... plain and simple.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
i’d have to say it was stopped early. i’m totally against a fight being stopped ON THE FEET. that being said, there was 0% chance kampmann was going to come out of it, daley was going to continue pounding on him and put kampann in a risk of having permanent damage done. so i see why the ref stopped it, but i hate fights being called when a guy is rocked on his feet
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
So you don’t believe someone can be out on their feet?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 21, 2009 10:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What exactly happens when someone is flagged for trolling?
I am not being a smartass at all, I just didnt know this happened or what happened after.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I will settle this once & for all-
it could have gone either way. lol
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
I’m with myth. I wouldn’t say that the stoppage was completely unjustifiable and ridiculous; however, I think it is at least one step too far.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
That’s the general consensus, I think – it was the beginning of the end, even if it wasn’t completely over. Good stoppage, but not ideal.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 21, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
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