Does the UFC create their enemies?

by bigdmmafan on Sep 19, 2009 12:05 AM EDT

With the recent announcement of Strikeforce's Fedor vs. Rogers event I could help think to myself how the UFC has no one really to blame but themselves for having to take on other mma promotions. Now before you going telling me how wrong I am or how this is one of the worst fanposts you've ever read think about it.

Almost every non-Zuffa promotion gets their fighters in 4 ways.

1) Released UFC fighters- Yes you can argue that many of these fighters deserved to be released but I don't see how you can expect to release a fighter and not expect another mma promotion to try and use him for their gain. Tim Sylvia is a great example of this. When he was released he had 1 fight left on his deal and they choose to release him which in turn gave Affliction the second half of their main event at Banned. Had they choose to keep him I'm sure Affliction would have come up with something and yes Affliction mma did die eventually but there is the what if factor there.

2) Pride fighters- Again you can argue that outside of Fedor the UFC picked up the good Pride talent, however the UFC chose to let guys like Josh Barnett and Takanori Gomi stay on the market. Given both men's recent trouble, Barnett's failed banned substance test and Gomi's recent losses the move looks to be a smart one but leaving these 2 men on the market gave way to new mma promotions in Affliction and Sengoku.

3) IFL fighters- After being burned in a way by the Pride buyout, the UFC decided against buying mma organizations and not being guaranteed the fighters. Now after the collapse of the IFL the UFC decided to only go after certain fighters and well Jim and Dan Miller were great additions to the roster choosing guys like Reese Andy and Rory Markham over guys like Jay Heiron, Ben Rothwell, and Chris Horodecki was a mistake and allowed Affliction and now Strikeforce access to better fighters. Yes I'm aware that Big Ben is now a UFC employee.

4)Elite XC fighters- Now this one you cant really argue it was reported that the UFC did put in a bid to buy Elite XC and CBS/Showtime was looking for someone that was going to "work with them". That being said if the UFC had been able to buyout Elite XC, Strikeforce would probably not be on Showtime/CBS and guys like Rogers and Shields would be in your organization instead of Strikeforce. A guy like Rogers would be a huge addition, how many black heavyweight fighters are there in mma? Now chances are unless the UFC overpaid by a lot CBS/Showtime was not going to sell them Elite XC but you wonder if the UFC had pulled off the Elite XC purchase would Strikeforce be anywhere near as successful today.

This brings me back to my original point had the UFC kept a few guys and purchased the IFL and Elite XC could they have avoided dealing with companies like Affliction and Strikeforce or do you think no matter what you are going to have companies challenging the UFC? Now I'm sure Strikeforce would still be around but they would probably still be more of a regional show and a feeder to the UFC without the Elite XC buyout.

Interested to hear any and all feedback.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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Comments

The only way they could avoid all four of those would be to just keep on taking on fighters and never letting them go.

Obviously, thats impossible.

by Michaelthebox on Sep 19, 2009 12:52 AM EDT reply actions

So your point is that the UFC should of employeed everyone? How are they going to do that and who of the guys they have now should they of cut to make room for those other guys? The fact is there will always be other organizations out there because there will always be fighters outside of the UFC out there needing work, they can’t (and shouldn’t) try to put everyone under contract at the same time. That would just be too many fighters and not enough events for everyone. Beyond the couple of names that came out of the IFL and EliteXC there were just a lot of fighters out there already and more are being developed every day (which is also good for the UFC too). I think that is where your arguement falls apart, there are more than 4 places where MMA fighers come from.

by who me on Sep 19, 2009 1:23 AM EDT reply actions

Well I guess I should have been more specific.

Main event fighters in other organizations usually come from the 4 things I listed. Especially big main events. Look at Strikeforce since the Elite XC buyout the main events have been guys from Elite XC and the IFL. Affliction’s main fighters were ex-Pride and UFC guys.

Now there are always developing new fighters and so in a few years that might not be true.

As for employeeing everyone, I’m not a moron I realize that would not happen but at the same time there are fighters that could easily get replaced.

I would take a Brett Rogers over a Tim Hague anyday. Mousasi over Alexander. Shields over Kevin Burns. I could go on but I wont.

My whole point is Dana didnt like having Affliction in the game and now he doesnt like having Strikeforce being huge and if he had did a few moves different he could have prevented that.

There will always be mma companies but how big those companies get really depend on how the UFC handles their business. Like I said without the Elite XC acquisition, Strikeforce would be nowhere near where they are now.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 19, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Keeping those guys around would be paying more than they are worth to the UFC, and that also includes the worth of keeping them out of competing organizations.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Sep 19, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Well you are still talking about the same situation, those guys just plain cost more money. It’s a cost vs value equation that goes into a lot of fighters at that level. For example there is no way the UFC would of ever paid guys like Ben Rothwell what Affliction was willing to spend. That really goes into your comparisons there, of course they rather have Mousasi than Alexander, the two guys are on different levels and require different pay, you would have to switch out on the same level and that doesn’t change the fact that good fighters would be outside the UFC.

You also have to look at the fact that organizations like EliteXC and the IFL (and the Japanese orgs for that matter) have done the UFC a favor in terms of the long run of the sport, they spend money and time to develop these name fighters you are talking about. If you destroy all competition and control all the current name fighters then where does the next generation come from? The UFC can’t develop everyone and it saves them money with other orgs taking the risk on those guys potentially being big bust in the sport. Also some guys might be bust in the UFC first time around but can revive their careers outside of Zuffa and come back for second (or even third) runs with the UFC. Lets face it EliteXC and the IFL never really was competition for the UFC, even Affliction didn’t actually compete anywhere except in the minds of internet MMA fans.

by who me on Sep 19, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Everyone needs a good enemy.

Keep firing Assholes!

The Leafs are back!

by Ubernoober on Sep 19, 2009 2:03 AM EDT reply actions

Dana has declared "War!" on the following:

AKA fighters
EA (although displayed Fight Night ads on the mat)
Strikeforce
Showtime
IFL
PRIDE
EXC
Affliction
Fedor
People of Japan
Yakuza (lol)

Yes I would say they create it themselves. It’s childish in a way.

by gunranger on Sep 19, 2009 2:16 AM EDT reply actions

I take back people of Japan. But the Japanese public doesn’t like them

by gunranger on Sep 19, 2009 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Sherdog (Gross, Hunt, etc)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Sep 19, 2009 4:02 AM EDT up reply actions

#1-tim asked to be let go, they didn’t just cut him. they did him and themselves a favor with this one. same as arlovski. he chose not to re-sign. the ufc is never going to grossly overpay fighter like affliction, or take a shitty tv deal like elite did. if an org signs their ex-fighters, thats fine, the ufc can’t have them all, but when they sign former ufc fighters to go up against the ufc (ala affliction) then they MAKE themselves the enemy. SF could have stayed regional and not parterned up with m-1. as soon as they did that, they chose to make themselves the enemy, wether they meant to or not. obviously elitexc and affliction did mean too, and i think a person would have to be a bit blind not think SF is doing the same.

by bdw on Sep 19, 2009 2:18 AM EDT reply actions

Good comments

But if anything I dont think it was the partnering up with m-1 that made Strikeforce a player I think it was buying Elite XC and then getting the Showtime and CBS deals.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 19, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions

that too. SF seems like elitexc part 2, doesn’t it? except they replace kimbo with fedor, a much better figher, but not nearly a big a draw.

by bdw on Sep 19, 2009 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions

The answer to your question is YES!

But the reasons you cite are not why…

Showtime was created by DANA.

CBS was created by DANA.

Ever since Lorenzo took over this aspect of the business there has been zero blowback.

Dana was so good in getting these guys into MMA without positioning the UFC as the only logical choice during the negotiations he created competition.

Also when you get into high level negotiations you get certain documents signed so your data isnt used against you. Dana didnt want to delay anything so he just kept jumping head first.

by mmalogic on Sep 19, 2009 5:19 AM EDT reply actions

There are always going to be fighters that are worth more to one organization than another.

Gomi already had a name in Japan and could fight lesser competition at a higher salary. Sure the hardcore fans would enjoy watching him fight in the states, but the casual fanbase would not be buying PPV’s to watch some Asian guy get held down buy Griffin, Sherk, Edgar, Stevenson, Etc.

It usually isn’t in the best interest of mid-level fighters to sign with the UFC if they can’t hang with elite fighters. They can get paid more and not have to worry as much about getting dropped after a few losses and completely taking a hit in value.

I think the UFC has done an excellent job at gauging which fighters are going to be able to pull fans into watching other promotions. Other than Arlovski, I can’t think of anyone they let go that actually pulls in fans. As far as the guys they have chosen not to pick up, they know that without the UFC brand power, those fighters aren’t going to be major draws, so as soon as they decide that they aren’t going to be one, they let a lesser promotion spend a bunch of cash in an effort that has been unsuccessful in basically every scenario so far, i.e. turning them into a draw in America (other than Kimbo and Carano).

by jacksiwel on Sep 19, 2009 9:11 AM EDT reply actions