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The Week in Quotes: September 6th - 12th

Bob-arum_medium

MY NAME'S BOB ARUM, AND I'M OLD AND STUFF

"Our audience in boxing is ethnic, Hispanic, Filipino, Puerto Rican, Mexican and the hard core boxing fan who can’t watch, like me, UFC. The UFC are a bunch of skinhead white guys watching people in the ring who also look like skinhead white guys." - Boxing promoter Bob Arum, sticking foot firmly in mouth.  (Fanhouse)

"Ninety percent of the people in the audience wear tattoos." - Arum, describing MMA fans.  Ninety percent of people over sixty shouldn't voice their opinion.  Who do you think is closer to being correct?

"They watched it, it’s horrible, guys rolling around like homosexuals on the ground." - Arum, not sure what he's watching.

"I mean it’s not a sport that shows great, great talent." - Arum.  Like Tyson biting Holyfield's ear or Golota making Bowe's nuts his sole target or Klitschko dominating with a jab, right?

"There is no way the (UFC 100) pay-per-view generated the kind of numbers they put out. I know what the numbers were — south of one million. They’re not a public company. Who’s to check?" - Arum.  I'd wager a pretty large sum they were north of 1m.

Star-divide

DID SOMEONE SAY DONKEY SHOW?

"What happened when [Filho] came to America, he got beat up really bad. Now he’s back in Japan and he feels like a kid in a candy story." - Strikeforce light heavyweight champ Gegard Mousasi.  (Fighters.com via MMA Mania)

"I would say that he’s a little donkey on steroids. He thinks he’s a running horse but he’s more like a little pony." - Mousasi, does that mean little girls love Paulo Filho?

"I didn’t take any steroid. How could I have taken steroids before losing 9 kilos?" - Paulo Filho, responding.  As if that logic makes it impossible for him to be juicing. (Fighter's Only)

"He’s in good momentum right now but the Brazilian light-heavyweights are able to beat him up - and I’m one of them." - Filho.  Brazilian light heavyweights like Renato "Babalu" Sobral, amirite?

"If there’s an athletic commission test, he can fight me everywhere, everywhere he wants." - Mousasi

HORSE MEAT'S A HELLUVA DRUG

"I cannot be 100-percent right about the reason he is taking so long to solve his issues and come to fight, but it seems either that the gummy berry juice he is taking to give him super powers is (causing) him to avoid fighting here in America or he is afraid of having no arms to fight after facing me one more time." - Fabricio Werdum, calling out Strikeforce heavyweight champ Alistair Overeem, who hasn't defended his title in almost two years. (MMA Weekly)

"I will let him take some pictures with my belt and he will be able to keep good memories from his time as a Strikeforce champion." - Werdum.  Did Strikeforce hire a trash talk instructor? Goddamn.

KIMBO: "BAS TOOK MY BREAD"

"I guess with him, he pretended to be a friend but he really wasn't I guess. It was just business with him." - Internet streetfighting sensation and best heavyweight prospect alive Kimbo Slice, responding to comments made by Bas Rutten. (Fighter's Only)

"You pay a guy good money to teach you things and be a good teacher and they take your money." - Slice.  Well, that is one half of the transaction?

"But then they turn round and say ‘I tried to teach you stuff but its not working'?... Come on man, you're not a good teacher - so really he owes me some money right?" - Slice. You mean the "danga danga danga da's" and "leeeeeeever shots" didn't improve your game, Kimbo?

WHITE NOISE

"Boxing is doing it to you again. They’re giving you the fight that you don’t want. " - UFC President Dana White, ridiculing the Floyd Mayweather-Juan Manuel Marquez fight that will be going head-to-head with UFC 103.  Because everyone wanted Franklin-Belfort, right? (MMA Fanhouse

"Nobody asked for this fight with Mayweather and … what’s his name? What’s his name? Nobody even knows. Nobody in this room even knows who Floyd’s fighting." - White.  C'mon dude, why you gotta play Juan like that.  Also, this little bit was some pseudo-stand up comedy from Dana.  Very creepy.

"On that same night, on that UFC card, you guys can all tune in and you can watch not one fight, you guys can watch five great fights that night for ten dollars less than what Floyd wants you to pay to see him run around in circles, and lay on the ropes, and move around and not fight." - White, making me want to watch Floyd.

PARTING SHOTS

"I said to him 'Wanderlei, you’re much more handsome… If you had a long hair and a pretty mouth, you’d be like Angelina Jolie.'" - UFC middleweight champ  Anderson Silva, on Wanderlei Silva.  Does that make him Brad Pitt? (Tatame)

"Beat him now or beat him later, it doesn’t matter. I’ll have to fight [Nate] Marquardt eventually." - Former Pride multi-champ Dan Henderson.  More like beat him now because you aren't getting past Anderson, bro. (MMA Fanhouse)

"Age and wisdom can only take you so far before age catches up to you." - Frank Trigg, with a quote that would make Yogi Berra blush. (Yahoo)

"Let’s get real here, guys. I didn’t play Russian roulette because I was depressed that I lost to Brett Rogers. I wasn’t depressed. I was just in a bad mood." - Former UFC heavyweight champ Andrei Arlovski.  Dude, what the fuck would you have done if you WERE depressed? (Fighters.com)

"I don't think he's afraid. Maybe he wants to keep his perfect record. Maybe he thinks the UFC is too tough. Why he's not there, I don't know." - Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic, commenting on Fedor Emelianenko's decision to sign with Strikeforce. (MMA Torch)

"If I could drink all night and sleep all day I would. Shit, if I could have a chamber pot brought to me in my bed, I'd piss in that." - Don Frye (Heavy.com)

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You stay classy Mr. Arum.

by Zack Gobie on Sep 13, 2009 6:07 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

That’s a great response lol. Just conveys that when you run into someone that crazy, it’s not even worth it.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's so dumb

The thing that really gets to me is when someone actually questions the technique/martial art or sport itself (not the promoters or the fighters, but the actual essence of the sport). When people critique boxing, it isn’t the actual techniques or sport itself that gets critiqued, but the corruption or the multiple sanctioning bodies or the multiple weight classes, etc, but not the actual ‘boxing’ itself (outside of some saying that it is boring but as far as technique goes, no one really questions how much technique is needed in boxing). It is just ignorance at its finest, and with how fast the sport is growing and how much the fans of the sport are getting educated about the actual techniques, it just goes to show how ridiculous a person like Bob Arum sounds.

by chrisbboy82 on Sep 14, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The UFC in particular needs more diversity.

In the UFC name 5 african american fighters, I can think of 3 off the top of my head.

Rampage, Rashad, Guillard, and no I dont count Kimbo as he hasnt fought in the UFC.

Name 5 mexican-american fighters in the UFC, Again I only can think 3.

Huerta, Velazquez, Torres if he counts

Now this is top of my head if googled I’m sure I could find more

Now there are a ton of white mma fighters and a ton of brazillian mma fighters and a fair number of japanese fighters so it’s not like they are racist but they could do a better job of getting more diverse fighters

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Jon Jones, Anthony Johnson, Kongo, John Howard, Anderson Silva is black and brazilian.

Then again my uncle who is white was born in Africa and lives in America now and is an african american on paper, so who knows what you mean by this.

by DirtyML on Sep 13, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant African American

Meaning Black but American without saying rudley. I forgot Jon Jones and Anthony Johnson, and John Howard but I consider Kongo to be French and A. Silva to be brazillian.

Ok can you name me anymore mexican or mexican-american fighters tahn the 3 I listed?

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Diego Sanchez, Tito Ortiz are two that come to mind.

by DirtyML on Sep 13, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cain

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

karo and manny are from an east indian decent i think

by Riley_96 on Sep 13, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Armenian

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ahh i knew it wasent white also as i stated below another blak guy is Profesor x

by Riley_96 on Sep 13, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol that’s a first, Many and Karo are east Indian lmao. that makes me an Indian too. lol. no they arnt like Uber said they are ARMO , Armenian its in eastern Europe.

by 1WAYtiket on Sep 14, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Armenia is in the Caucasus mountains, which is one hell of a long ways from Easter Europe.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 15, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nate Diaz, Erain Escudero, Rolando Delgado, Kenny Florian(not sure but he speaks spanish), Diego Sanchez, and Cain Velasquez and Tito Ortiz.

by drano on Sep 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kenny’s Peruvian.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ahh thank you

by drano on Sep 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love the “he’s not black, he’s Brazilian” angle. It’s one of my all-time favorite trolls.

by Steve4192 on Sep 14, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Answers

5 African American Fighters

1. Cheick Kongo
2. John Howard
3. Melvin Guillard
4. Rashad Evans
5. Quinton Jackson

by KKamikaze on Sep 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kongo is french

He doesnt even claim to fight out of America and trains in the UK so how is that an African- American? Dude is African-French.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jon Jones

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 13, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok thank you everyone

I was wrong there are more African American fighters and Mexican American fighters than I thought.

That being said this sport is still dominated by 3 groups, whites, brazillians, and asians.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the NFL and NBA or

dominated by how many?

by Riney on Sep 13, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So what? There’s big fight cultures there.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Sep 13, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just pointing it out

No need to go ballistic. Yeah there are African American fighters, European Fighters, Mexican Fighters but they pale in comparison to the amount of fighters who are Asain, White, or Brazillian.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How could this comment go over looked!? Rec’d

"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate

by kyfm621 on Sep 13, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s what tends to happen when a sport is young. The people who started it, or people in similar areas are those who dominate the sport. Think about it, the sport is dominated by wrestlers, BJJ’ers and people who live in ‘warrior’ cultures. Give it time, it’s just now getting popular.

Side Note: I don’t know anything about Amateur Wrestling, is it still considered a "white dominant’ sport?

by CliChe Guevara on Sep 13, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know about “White Dominant” but there is definitely a slant towards Caucasians.

by Captain7 on Sep 13, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except everywhere else in the world

Where it is dominated by Central Asians, Eastern Europeans, and the Middle East.

by loboplata on Sep 13, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rumble Johnson
X porwhatamafuk

YAMATO DAMASHII

by R.T. on Sep 13, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Professor X

by Riley_96 on Sep 13, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Koscheck is biracial, Anderson Silva, Jones, Kongo, Rumble. There was also Soko, Terry Martin, Marvin Eastman, Gideon Ray, & Kevin Randleman. I’m not getting into the “African-American” issue, but at face value, they’re all black.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Sep 13, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why kongo can’t be on that list just because he is from france lol, what are we even talking about :p ? I don’t think the UFC is blocking any “minorities” or person from certain origins.

You don't look like a Tanaka.

by spectaa on Sep 13, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fuck I missed the ARUM quotes lol, ok now I know where all of this comes from.

You don't look like a Tanaka.

by spectaa on Sep 13, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He can’t be on the list because some people think it’s racist to refer to people of african descent as “black.” So, we’ve been brainwashed into thinking of blacks as “african americans,” which would be fine, except that it has become so heavily ingrained in us, that we now think of all blacks as african americans, despite their nationality.

So, in order to be politically correct (whatever that means), the original poster asks for us to name african americans in the ufc, even though since the topic is racial diversity, he should have asked for blacks in the ufc. Most of us understand this, and we answer in kind, but some of us will call the technicality that guys like A. Silva and Kongo aren’t americans… despite the fact that they contribute to the racial diversity of the UFC.

by Shaun32887 on Sep 13, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

rec'd

If the UFC were stopping minorities from competing then this would be an issue. But it seems like they actually promote minorities and have no issues with a champion from a different race.

by Captain7 on Sep 13, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Elliot Marshall is biracial too

by CliChe Guevara on Sep 13, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

black and jewish

www.knees2thehead.com
Check it out!!

by BJJDenver on Sep 13, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yves Edwards & Din Thomas too

by CliChe Guevara on Sep 13, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BJ, GSP, Anderson Silva, Lyoto and Brock are all ethnic minorities.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brock?

Is redneck considered an ethnic minority?

by Captain7 on Sep 13, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brock likens himself to a black man, haven’t you heard?

by CliChe Guevara on Sep 13, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s pretty funny

by drano on Sep 13, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just read that entire entry about Gorillas.

They are pretty awesome.

by DirtyML on Sep 13, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hate it when people post wiki links. I’ve spent the best part of an hour therenow, starting at Gorillas and ending up at the first Burmese War somehow…

by -Sam on Sep 13, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

also Spanish- American…

Diego Sanchez, Nate Diaz, Leonard Garcia, Tito Ortiz, Eddie Sanchez, Manny Tapia, Efrian Escudero, Joe Stevenson.

I have to disagree with you bro. The list goes on an on with Brazilians, African-Americans, Asians,Middle Eastern and Europeans. The UFC is pretty Diverse…

by stevew1524 on Sep 13, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would definitely have to agree and if you look outside the UFC there are alot of mexican fighters and fans just look at Bellator. I guess when you get to be Arum’s age you can just say whatever you want and don’t have to worry about dumb things like facts.

by drano on Sep 13, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spanish – Americans? I don’t think any of those guys are Spanish.

'Ello G'vnor!

by IHateMMA on Sep 13, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

George Sotiropolous

Is Australian (Of Greek heritage)

'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko

by Well Read Idiot on Sep 14, 2009 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you realize how close the UFC was to having no white american champions?

It was very close to being BJ, GSP, Anderson, Rampage, Nog: which is hawaiian, canadian, brazillian, black, and brazillian.

even now, it’s hawaiian, canadian, brazillian, brazillian, white.

Just because there aren’t many mexicans and you don’t know any black fighters doesn’t make the sport lack diversity.

by Phildo on Sep 13, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except fpr the fact that Couture came back

and Lesnar beat him but wait Mir beat Nog so even if Couture and Lesnar never fought the champ would be Mir who is white.

Also I didnt say the sport I said the UFC and I said the UFC lacks diversity which if you compare the amount of black and mexican fighters to the amount of white and brazillian fighters then yes the UFC would be lacking diversity.

And I didnt say American fighters I said no black and mexican fighters. BJ is american and if you gonna call Lesnar white instead of American then you have to call GSP white and not Canadian.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You’re little semantics all add up to the same thing. there’s only 2 white champions, or 2 “american” champions, doesn’t seem like a lack of diversity to me.

The only thing you have going is that there aren’t a lot of mexicans, and that will probably change over time. In the smaller weights we have Garcia as a top fighter also.

This is no argument, the sport, and Zuffa’s companies are plenty diverse.

by Phildo on Sep 13, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do you want the UFC to do?

Start giving non-white fighters and non american fighters extra points on the judges scorecards to help promote diversity?

They pay them to fight. Actually winning and earning a title shot is up to them.

by Fibbus on Sep 13, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nm

thought this debate was about ethnicity of champions.

Still dumb. I lost 1 IQ point by participating even a little.

by Fibbus on Sep 13, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn’t Lyoto Japanese/Brazilian?

by CliChe Guevara on Sep 13, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes-half Japanese, half Brazilian, half ninja.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 13, 2009 10:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

that's one and a half...

he’s that elusive we can’t see his third half!

by Anton Tabuena on Sep 13, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are plenty of places to point out disparities in social accessibility among ethnic groups and subcultures

MMA and the UFC are the least of your worries and I wonder why on earth it would be a priority. Socially disadvantaged ethnic and cultural minorities in the states do not demand accessibility to the sport of MMA. They demand accessibility to JOBS, fair housing, good education. You know, the fundamentals. An affirmative-action policy in the UFC doesn’t help anyone. It does not break patterns of cyclical poverty, cyclical inaccessibility, cyclical oppression.

In short, I think you’re missing the point.

Perhaps you’re responding to Arum’s claims. I think there is only one response: Arum is a fool. MMA is one of the most cosmopolitan sports available, probably second only to soccer. It exists both because nearly every part of the world has a combative system, and because of the social and cultural exchanges of the colonial world and post-colonial globalization. There is no part of what Arum said that is remotely defensible, and it really warrants no response.

by loboplata on Sep 13, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

One of the greatest weeks of quotes ever.

When did AA play russian roulette and why did he talk about it? How did that even come up?

by DirtyML on Sep 13, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Read here.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Sep 13, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow that shit is sad to read. Hope he gets some help.

by DirtyML on Sep 13, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He didn’t blow his head off, so that’s a good start. Someone upstairs likes him.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s too bad I always liked Arlovski and thought he was gonna be a force to be reckoned with when he started training with freddie roach

by drano on Sep 13, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know, Arum is right in a way about boxing reaching a much more ethnic audience and UFC reaching a more whitebread audience. Other than that, he is kind of an asshole. A big one at that.

Dana really isn’t much better talking about JMM like that. As it has been said, Franklin/Belfort why?

by HizaGiri Nightmare on Sep 13, 2009 6:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think Bob knows what a skinhead is.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is boxing vs. mma plain and simple

Of course Arum doesnt like mma it is becoming huge but you think Dana is better calling a reporter a “f’n moron” and pretending that he doesnt know who Juan Manuel Marquez is.

Let’s just leave at this both White and Arum are pricks using bad language to bad mouth anyone who they feel is a threat.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Putting Dana on the level of Bob Arum? Wow.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How is Dana not as bad as Arum?

Using the word f@**ot and publically bashing a female reporter by calling her a “f’n moron” and badmouthing boxing

is that better than

using the word homosexuals calling a group of fans skinheads and badmouthing mma?

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What Dana said was less worse that Bob.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not at all...

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 13, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes at all………calling an entire fanbase racist and skinheads is worse than calling ONE reporter an f-ing moron or anyONE a faggot

by JaTinkles on Sep 14, 2009 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both of theier comments show a lot of contempt for the groups being offended, imo.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Sep 14, 2009 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

their*

Anyway, this whole thing is a false dilemma. Both their comments are awful, and it’s futile to try and parse through which is “worse.” The Holocaust and Stalin’s exterminations were both bad, there’s no reason to try and figure out which is “more bad.”

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Sep 14, 2009 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Stalin killed more, but Hitler was more efficient, so…wait, that rhetorical, isn’t it?

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Sep 14, 2009 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey-o!

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Sep 14, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dana uses bad language, Arum is a delusional moron.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right

But I don’t think they are comparable. Further, Dana (at least half-assedly) apologized. He may not understand the implicit misogyny and homophobia of his statements, but he knows what he did was fucked up.

Arum’s homophobia has (so far) gone under the radar as far as I can tell. It may actually say something about who cares about boxing (or its promoters).

by loboplata on Sep 13, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nobody? :-)

Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

by DrunkinMidget187 on Sep 13, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lets say Dana used ethnic slurs to degrade boxing fans…

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

reread the quote

Let’s just leave at this both White and Arum are pricks using bad language to bad mouth anyone who they feel is a threat.

It applies to both men. Ok so Bob Arum is more of a prick than Dana White. Dan White is still a prick and my quote still apllies to both men.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dana haters have a lot in common with Bob Arum.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well first I'm not a Dana hater

but second since you believe I am what do I have in common with Bob Arum?

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The guy answering this better be careful.

You don't look like a Tanaka.

by spectaa on Sep 13, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy crap, you’re not a Dana hater but you put him on the same level as Bob Arum? I can’t think of a worse insult, so I’d hate to see what you say about someone you do hate.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Everyone now only thinks Bob Arum is a prick after these quotes. If I had compared him to Bob Arum before this most people would have taken it as a compliment.

Now Dana may not be on the same level as Bob Arum but he is still a prick and takes shots at a lot of people and the only reason most people dont care is because they love mma and love what Dana has done with the UFC.

Dana is a prick and says stupid shit bit a lot of people like yourself think its funny when Dana say dumb shit but offensive when Arum does.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arum says that MMA is full of homosexuals and that the fans and fighters are all tattooed skinheads. And then you say that Dana is just as bad.

Just recapping in the hopes that you’ll see how insane you sound.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This guy is offensive in so many ways. Dana can sound immature, but this guy, man this quote was pure evil.

You don't look like a Tanaka.

by spectaa on Sep 13, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dana called a woman a “fucking dumb bitch” and used the word faggot like it was going out of style. Even if you disagree that Dana’s as bad, the point can still be made.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Sep 13, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not excusing those comments, but at least in that case they weren’t unprovoked, and they were nowhere near as stupid or offensive as the comments from Arum.

Dana called one woman a dumb bitch, Arum called several million people tattoed, homosexual skinheads.

C’mon now.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Did you read what Lorreta Hunt said that made Dana go off

She said the Rich Franklin was a “poster boy” of the UFC. She didnt blast Dana personally. She didnt go after his family. She called Rich Franklin a “poster boy” and said the UFC didnt want him to lose.

That isnt a sin. The UFC doesnt want a lot of people to lose. Brock Lesnar, Chuck Liddell.

Yeah and I conceide what Arum said was much worse but Dana is still a prick and blasted a reporter unprovoked and on top of that was dumb enough to post in on youtube.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it had to do with the credentialing of people backstage. All his comments were directed at her for using anon sources, and at the anon source.

by soadtrails on Sep 13, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was part of it too

Part of it was the Rich Franklin poster boy comment and part of it was her using anon sources of people saying that Dana didnt want all these people backstage.

It’s no so much the fact of what he was mad about it was the way he responded by posting a video blog tirade.

If he wants an example look at Joe Lauzon. This guy blasted mma in an article in the Boston Globe and Joe didnt go cursing him out on a video blog. Joe wrote an article correcting this guy and showing him he was wrong.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think both are deplorable.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Sep 13, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Without White, there may not even be MMA in the US. For Arum, this is just the latest in a long string of controversies that included everything from racism to bribery.

You’d HAVE to be a Dana hater to draw a comparison.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You’d have to be a hater to draw the comparison that both have said some pretty messed up shit? Sounds moe like you’re an apologist.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Sep 13, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hitler said some pretty messed up stuff too, so I guess he and Dana White are pretty similar too lol.

Haters are silly.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's not about that

Razzel you miss the point.

No one here is saying Bob Arum isnt dumb and his comments were absurd at best but acting like Dana isnt wrong is just as dumb.

Calling someone a dumb bitch maybe better than calling millions of fans skinheads but it still stupid.

Like I said below it just needs to stop. I know its not just Dana but just start ignoring these people. If Floyd bashes the UFC you know what you do you say whatever and move one and talk about the great night of fights you have coming up.

People now know Fedor not because of how great of a fighter he is but because anytime you mention his name around Dana he gets pissed.

Bob and Dana have both said some messed up shit. Last time it was Dana this time it was Bob who knows next time.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I’m not saying Dana doesn’t say stupid stuff once in a while, I’m just saying I think he is on such a higher level than Bob that I think it’s insulting to compare the two.

For Dana, the bad has never been this bad, and the good is so good it outweighs everything else anyway.

I mean take the fact that he says dumb stuff once in a while, I would rather that than him never saying anything stupid but always just spouting the company line in his interviews.

Add to that he almost single handedly brought MMA to the edge of mainstream by putting on awesome fights and fighting to get the sport sanctioned everywhere, and it really is insulting to compare him in any way to Bob Arum.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree but I'm letting it go

Dana still needs to learn how to watch it. If you go up a few posts I wrote how Joe Lauzon when a guy bashed mma wrote a well thought out article in response.

That should be Dana’s thing. If he disagrees with someone do it smartly and go about it the right way.

Bob Arum is not smart and if you visit a boxing sit like bad left hook you will see boxing fans are embarresed by his actions.

Like I told ubernoober it’s just time to let it all go. It’s like politics. Dont tell me why I shouldn’t but Myaweather/Marquez but convince me 103 is better. I was saying that from a casual fan perspective because I’m buying both.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i like the way dana shows how he feels even if it means he has to apologize later for what he said.

by cagefightonacid on Sep 13, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank god

I was getting worried that Fedor couldnt possibly get mentioned in this thread……

by MrBlond3 on Sep 13, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did Hitler really say some silly stuff? I din’t know then, but the YES, I guess Dana and Adolf have something in common.

by David_ on Sep 13, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

get off dana’s balls man. he is a prick even though i could care less. but to make a point u need to understand that he did what he did for MMA for his pocket first. and then for the sport.

by 1WAYtiket on Sep 14, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dana’s gist: Boxing fans are getting screwed over again by another lame Mayweather fight. Watch UFC 103 instead for better value

Bob’s gist: MMA is garbage and groundfighting is gay. MMA fans are tattoed skinheads.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But that is Dana's opinion its not a fact

I’m gonna watch the Mayweather fight after 103 and of course Dana is saying the boxing fight gonna turn out to be garbage because he wants everyone to order 103. The boxing fight could be a great fight.

It’s not like we havent been screwed over by the UFC before on a promise of great fights. Depending on the night and the fighters fights in boxing and mma can either be great or suck.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t care about the factuality of the statements, I care about the intent of the message. Bob’s intent was much nastier, but he gets away with it because he’s set in his ways.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention, the end result of the fights doesn’t take away from the fact that the UFC puts on consistently great matchups. Sometimes the fights end up being dull, but the UFC can’t change that.

Is he really equating UFC with Boxing now? This is getting crazy.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boxing is still a good sport

If you hate boxing you wont respect it but both mma and boxing can put on great fights and boring fights its just turns out like that sometimes

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They both CAN put on great fights, but only the UFC does so consistently (and every now and then for free) because it is willing to promote their athletes. Boxing is full of scumbags who won’t put any money back into the sport.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

boxing does free fights

It just depend on if your a boxing fan or not

If your a boxing fan the names on espn are as big as an UFN but if not then you think boxing on espn sucks

and boxing on hbo is just as good if not better than strikeforce on showtime.

boxing is in a bad spot not because they wont put money back into the sport but because you dont have almost all the top talent in one organization which makes it harder for great fights to happen.

It’s alot like why you dont see Fedor in the UFC.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t see how I would know the fighters. The UFC has reality shows and hype shows in addition to their free events, while boxing has…..nothing. Outside of the big names, how am I supposed to know anything about anybody other than doing my own research.

That’s the problem with boxing.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only reason you know mma names is because you watch

Does the UFC hype up Gray Maynard? No but you watch mma on a constant basis and you get to know these people. Same with boxing if you watch ESPN’s Friday Night Fights or boxing on Versus you get to know these fighters but if you dont than of course you dont know these fighters.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But I didn’t just up and start doing my research on MMA. The UFC constantly put on easily accessible shows to get me interested and educate me about the fighters. Boxing doesn’t do that.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bob isnt getting away with it

go to bad left hook and look this up boxing fans are ashamed that Bob Arum has said this but just like we cant control Dana they cant control Bob.

The fact remains they both say stupid shit but have the posters on here think its funny when Dana uses terms like f@**ot and f’n moron but think Bob Arum should be banned from sports for calling mma homosexuals rolling around on the ground

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dana apologised and retracted the f-bomb.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So if Arum apologized does that make everything ok?

Look dont get me wrong what Bob Arum said was dispicable and I hate that he cant see mma is a good sport with good fans but Dana isnt an angel either.

Dana say dumb sh@t all the time. Weather its taking shots at JMM or blasting reporters who he thinks are wrong.

Both men should procede to act more like grown up men and act civilized. Like I said I’m an mma fan and I appreciate what the UFC has done but I’m also a boxing fan and appreciate watching a good fight.

Move on to both men, instead of bashing the other’s product give people reasons to watch yours instead.

It’s a lot like a political race I dont want reasons not to vote for the other guy but I want reasons to vote for you.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

An apology would be a step in the right direction.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But you have to admit

It just needs to stop, on both sides.

Quit trying to convince people not to buy the other product but convince them to buy yours.

Instead of blasting Mayweather/Marquez just ignore it and tell people how you got this great night of fights and why they should tune in.

If anything Dana especially brings more attention to the things he hates when he goes on these rants. I dont even thin half the people that know Fedor would know him if it wasnt for Dana White.

Let people do their own thing. Convince people your the best product and worth watching over everyone else.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yah they should both stop saying dumb shit. In this one instance Dana’s shit was at least 42% less dumber than Bob’s.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

About which of White’s quotes are you all talking about?

by David_ on Sep 13, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The most recent marquez/mayweather stupidity.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

100% agreed

even though i never watch boxing, doesnt mean millions of other ppl dont. and in my opinion instead of bashing each other, or the sport, they should just do their best, and trust me ppl will follow.

by 1WAYtiket on Sep 14, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"But that is Dana's opinion its not a fact"

Did you just insinuate that Arum’s quote was fact?

by Screwface on Sep 13, 2009 8:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Christ read before you post

Ubernoober posted this which is what I responded to:

“Dana’s gist: Boxing fans are getting screwed over again by another lame Mayweather fight. Watch UFC 103 instead for better value

Bob’s gist: MMA is garbage and groundfighting is gay. MMA fans are tattoed skinheads."

And I even explained that it is Dana’s opinion not a fact that the Mayweather fight is going to be lame and boxing fans are getting screwed over.

Of Course Dana is gonna say that hell if 105 had a main event of Bisping/Kang, Dana would try and sell that it is a better main event the Cotto/Pacquiao. It’s what Dana does he sells his product.

If Dana was promoting the Mayweather fight you would hear how that would be better than UFC 103. He sells his product.

by bigdmmafan on Sep 13, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hit the brakes turbo...

It was a joke.

by Screwface on Sep 13, 2009 9:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

It's not boxing vs. mma

Most boxing writers called Arum an idiot for his comments. This was Arum vs. MMA, not Boxing vs. MMA

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 13, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well it was originally Franklin/Hendo II, but they scrapped it for Franklin/Belfort because everyone was complaining.

by Zack Gobie on Sep 13, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Franklin/Hendo II was an even more poignant example that the UFC doesn’t always put on fights people want. They one was universally hated.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Sep 13, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except they didn’t put on the fight.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s also a point that they listen to their fans

by CliChe Guevara on Sep 13, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They do listen to fans.

Dana even texted me back “good night”

Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

by DrunkinMidget187 on Sep 13, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no disrespect

but I am totally excited that vitor is back and being tested by someone like rich. i hate how hard people are on this match-up.

by cagefightonacid on Sep 13, 2009 7:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I for one am pumped for Franklin/Belfort.

by Razzel on Sep 13, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’d wager a pretty large sum they were north of 100m.

How much do you want to bet Fagan? Because I’m fairly certain the total is less than 100 million.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 13, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Haha. Where would I be without you on my ass with everything.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Sep 13, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s what she said?

:)

by Captain7 on Sep 13, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like it.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Sep 13, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But does ufc4 like it?

by Captain7 on Sep 13, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You kidding me? Of course he does.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Sep 13, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fagan is authorized to speak for me whenever I’m not around.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 13, 2009 8:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Probably a lot better off. So how did the sightseeing at the football game go the other night?

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 13, 2009 7:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

How did it GO that is.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 13, 2009 7:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Sig Bet, 103, wanna play?

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know I don’t really care for any of my options. Who you got on the fight night?

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 13, 2009 7:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Diaz
Maynard
Condit
Quarry
Stout
Silva

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok I’ll let u know later tonight when I get back home.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 13, 2009 8:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Our audience in boxing is ethnic, Hispanic, Filipino, Puerto Rican, Mexican

I stopped reading after that.

'Ello G'vnor!

by IHateMMA on Sep 13, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I want to state for the record- the UFC isn’t dictated by some bullshit law like affirmative action

They employ the best fighters- if they are all white then they are all white. If they are black then they are black. If they are martians, then they are martians. Get over it.

Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

by DrunkinMidget187 on Sep 13, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lyoto Machida already beat Predator.

Keep firing Assholes!

Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.

by Ubernoober on Sep 13, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder how many drinks it would take to get a midget drunk. Tolerance will vary with experience and race but I’d bet that 4 drinks would get the job done.

by HarryBolsagna on Sep 13, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

as long as your mix them write- just enough coke to change the rum’s color (so people don’t think im a drunk or anything)

furthermroe- when the hell si there going to be a 95 lbs division? I’d tear it up!!!

Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

by DrunkinMidget187 on Sep 13, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fact: Affirmative action actually benefits White Women more than anyone else.

by CliChe Guevara on Sep 13, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

affirmative actions is a set back to society

Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

by DrunkinMidget187 on Sep 13, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

one word to prove this “mma is for skinheads” shenanigans to be just that

Bellator

Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

by DrunkinMidget187 on Sep 13, 2009 7:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In addition the Hispanic, Puerto Rican and Mexican audience, Boxing also has the black, colored, and African American market and are making headway into the Asian, Chinese, and Asian-American market.

BOOSH

by Farthammer on Sep 13, 2009 8:33 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

ooooohhhhh waves hands in air

Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

by DrunkinMidget187 on Sep 13, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can’t even look at this post anymore. so many god damn generalities

Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

by DrunkinMidget187 on Sep 13, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You really said “colored” huh?

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Sep 13, 2009 8:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

HE DID!!!

OMG, RACIST!

Lol

I know you were just covering all the bases, seeing as how Kongo isn’t black, or whatever bigmmafan was trying to prove earlier.

by Screwface on Sep 13, 2009 9:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Colored People?

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Sep 13, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do do do do do. Do do do do do. Man I miss that show…

by black dragon on Sep 14, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arum's comments are just an old man rambling about things he doesn't understand...

MMA, and the UFC especially, looks like the freakin’ Olympics compared to the more popular sports in America, and ethnic pride and diversity is more on display because it’s an individual sport. It’s his thoroughly ignorant claim that there isn’t much talent or skill on display in MMA that really pisses me off…

by Kwisatz Haderach on Sep 13, 2009 10:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

They don't punch like boxers

Clearly they are hacks.

Same goes for hockey players, their footwork is all wrong when they fight; therefore they are untalented as a whole and their sport is a farce.

by Shaun32887 on Sep 14, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man if that A Silva quote isn’t the most distubing mental picture I will get today, I want out right now.

by brad23 on Sep 13, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ufc is very diverse.. and as soon as they realize that boxing is shit and mma is the future, you will see more black/mexican athletes in mma, already seeing a bit of it. if anything i say boxing is not as diverse, as you see mostly just blacks/hispanics, vs. ufc where you see koreans/japanese/brazillian/french canadian/armenian etc. when was the last time you saw a boxing bout that featured a japanese vs. a brazillian

by kanodogg on Sep 13, 2009 11:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

White, making me want to watch Floyd.

Pretty much. With the crap he says, he makes me want to actually pay for boxing pay per views.

I really think that Boxing and MMA need to stop bashing each other. It’s taking them nowhere. And it’s only hurting.

http://twitter.com/FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Sep 13, 2009 11:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Pay no attention to bigdmmafan. He once said on mmajunkie (and I quote) “The UFC only wants white, english speaking champions.”

by Rob H. on Sep 14, 2009 2:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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