Dan Henderson Holding Out for Big Pay Day to Fight Nate Marquardt at UFC 105
by Kid Nate on Sep 12, 2009 7:49 PM EDT
in MMA News
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Michael David Smith has the scoop:
Now Henderson is a free agent, and the UFC badly wants him to agree to a new contract to fight Nate Marquardt at UFC 105 in nine weeks. On Friday Henderson told me that if the UFC is going to get him in the Octagon with Marquardt, the promotion will need to meet his salary demands.
"I'm holding firm for what I think I deserve," Henderson said. "I think I've earned that."
What he thinks he deserves is more money than the $350,000 he made for beating Bisping, a salary that consisted of $100,000 to show, a $150,000 win bonus and a $100,000 Knockout of the Night Bonus....
Henderson said he hasn't talked to rival promotion Strikeforce, and he wants to use his leverage to get a good deal with the UFC -- not to get a good deal outside the UFC. He's confident enough that the UFC will give him that good deal that he said he's going to begin training hard on Monday, with the idea that he'll probably be in the Octagon some time later this year.
"I'm getting in shape like I'm going to fight," Henderson said. "I want to stay in the UFC."
Dan is clearly aware that at age 39 he has a very limited number of big time pay days in his future. He is also very aware that Nate Marquardt is no joke and that there is a very real possibility that he could lose this fight. That means he needs to get paid championship money to headline a PPV card at UFC 105 whether the UFC middleweight belt is on the line or not.
Personally, I think the UFC should pay Dan what he wants. The guy is a legend of the sport -- the only man to ever hold title belts in two PRIDE weight classes at the same time among other things -- and a credit to MMA.
Plus Anderson Silva is clearly ducking both Dan and Nate Marquardt in search of bigger pay day opponents like Randy Couture or Vitor Belfort.
And UFC 105 is in desperate need of a credible headlining fight. UK fans are tired of getting second tier fights to headline their shows.
Make the deal Dana.
UPDATE: Everyone seemed to object to my use of the verb "ducking" to describe what Anderson Silva is doing vis a vis Henderson and Marquardt. I thought I made it clear that Silva is looking for bigger paydays, not avoiding them out of fear.
And to be a smart-ass, here's the definition of "to duck" from Merriam-Webster: "to evade a duty, question, or responsibility."
I used the term correctly and I stand by it. His reasons for ducking Henderson and Marquardt are open to debate. The fact that he is ducking them both is not.
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Plus Anderson Silva is clearly ducking both he and Nate Marquardt in search of bigger pay day opponents like Randy Couture or Vitor Belfort.
I don’t like calling it “ducking”. That sounds like he’s avoiding them out of fear, & I doubt that’s true to any degree. I’d say he’s “snubbing” or “bypassing” them, but maybe I’m just being picky & reading too much into it.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 12, 2009 8:03 PM EDT reply actions
when you're refusing to fight the #1 contender
that’s the definition of ducking.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
dont think its ducking when you’ve already beaten them pretty convincingly
by brazary on Sep 12, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s all fine and dandy but what does it have to do with Dan Henderson’s contract status?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 8:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
a lot, actually
Since Henderson’s goals play into his contract. Henderson has made it clear he wants Silva; right now that won’t happen. UFC needs/wants him to fight Marquardt instead, and he knows his pricetag goes up since they want/need him to fight Marquardt.
So you think if his next fight was against Silva for the title he wouldn’t want as much? Because it seems to me he’d want just as much or more.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 9:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Did I say that?
I said the pricetag goes up since they need him for a fight. I didn’t say it goes up as opposed to fighting Silva.
He’s a free agent, and they need him to add stability/legitimacy to their MW division. If they can’t retain him, it makes their weakest division even weaker. And with Silva’s desire to fight at LHW, the last thing they need is Hendo to walk. He knows that, they know he knows that, and for him to stay and fight against someone he isn’t interested in fighting (in his apparently less-preferable division), they’ll have to pony up.
2. To evade; dodge: duck responsibility
4. To evade a responsibility or obligation. Often used with out: duck out on one’s responsibilities.
In this case it could be claimed that Anderson is ducking (evading) them not because he’s scared but because either he’s disinterested or looking for more profitable fights. Either way he’s using the term correctly.
thanks
especially annoying since that’s exactly what I said.
it’s obviously a matter of money, not fear.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
My issue is that to say “duck” or “evade” sounds like he’s scared of them. When someone says “Fedor is ducking the UFC”, they mean he’s afraid to fight Lesnar, to where Luke even put a stop to it as fighter bashing. It’s a loaded word. In a strict, technical sense, it may fit, but it carries implications beyond that (i.e. Sliva is scared of Nate & Dan).
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 12, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
if Silva refuses to fight
legit contenders he can deal with that connotation.
Fedor has signed a contract with a separate organizations and is something of a special case. If we didn’t have 200 morons hating on him in every thread we wouldn’t have to be such tight asses about it.
Anderson Silva, of whom I’m a huge fan, is clearly pulling all kinds of weasely bullshit to get the big pay day fights he wants.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I agree he’s being a bit of a prick about it – I would love to see him against a Nate 2.0, though I doubt a rematch with Hendo would go any differently. I just don’t think he’s avoiding them out of fear (i.e. “ducking”); rather, he’s gotten greedy, as though he really will retire & wants to milk his P4P status while he can.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 12, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I tried to be clear in the post
that Silva’s motivation is money.
Although I think both Henderson and Marquardt would do better in a rematch. Nate obviously has upped his game and become aggressive. But Henderson seems to have figured out how to condition his body to fight at 185 for the first time in his career.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I get the money aspect, which is why I think using "ducked" is poor word choice.
If someone says “Fedor ducked Brock”, do they mean “over money”?
When people said Karo ducked Fitch, did they mean “over money”?
When Mayhem says Jacare is ducking him, did he mean “over money”?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 12, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don't understand why.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 12, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
because he's clearly refusing to fight Henderson and Marquardt
because unlike the fans he realizes they’re actually dangerous and he could lose and thereby lose his mega payday.
he’s making a risk/reward calculation and concluding that they’re not worth the risk.
They have earned title shots by the normal UFC criteria.
Anderson Silva and his management are refusing to fight them ergo they are ducking them.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Do you enjoy just making this shit up and then declaring it as “clear” or that it’s some sort of fact?
by Chris Barton on Sep 13, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Here I think your wording makes it sound as if he’s ducking in pejorative way. Here’s the reason:
He wants bigger pay- day fights. He doesn’t think either of them will help draw enough to make it worthwhile to risk a fight against such a dangerous opponents. It’s probably not because he thinks he’ll lose, but he knows they could possibly beat him and it aint worth it for the amount he could get with other opponents. Now that his contract includes a cut of the ppv he definitely wants to go against fighters that will draw. And that’s mostly fights against higher weight class fighters.
“A special case”, LMAO, sure Nate, if that’s what you want to call it.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 9:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s a combination of that word and calling either Marquardt or Henderson the #1 contender. There can only be one #1 contender at a time.
sadly both have been declared the #1 contender
by Dana White.
and normally the UFC prefers to not have elimination fights between top contenders so as not to waste title fights.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Yeah, that was silly. To be honest, I don’t think he should ever have said that about Dan. It’s too early for him, and Nate has done more.
Nate has done more?
by losing to leites? hendo meanwhile has the style to beat silva, and beat franklin recently, something nate couldnt do. Nate is good, no disrespect to him, but dan is 39 and its his time. Nate is 30, he has a little time.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He’ll get it. If he’s the best, Dan will get his shot. But yeah Nate has clearly done more than Hendo in the last couple years. He lost to Leites, but anybody who has seen the fight knows he didn’t really lose. Even with that though, he’s 4-1 with 4 finishes while Hendo is 3-1 with 1 finsh and 1 controversial win.
It’s no even close IMO.
Losing to Leites?
He lost because of Mazagatti’s erroneous second point deduction. He absolutely smothered Leites all three rounds of that fight and was never in danger of being beaten.
Leites got his title shot based on that awful performance, I’m not surprised his fight with Silva went the way it did.
Post-Leites, Marquardt has steamrolled everyone they’ve put in his way – Kampmann, Gouveia and Maia were soundly beaten.
Hendo, great fighter as he is, has decision’d Franklin and Palhares and KO’d Bisping.
I think they’ve both earned shots. Silva is simply avoiding them because they’re not money fights for him this close to retirement.
I finish beers at 1:55.
Only
We don’t know Anderson is doing that either. Just because KN says so doesn’t make it true. Anderson is not obligated or evading a responsibility for ANY reason yet.
When Dana tries to match him up with one of these guys and he doesn’t fight them then, and only then, is he ducking.
by Chris Barton on Sep 12, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
why believe me
when Anderson Silva’s management have said it on the record.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
That’s not what they said. This is getting REALLY dishonest. You seem to be willing to manipulate anything to try to justify a horrendous word choice.
What part of what you linked indicated that Dana made the match? If he hasn’t then there is ZERO responsibility put on Silva to fight them.
In fact, Danas quote of
“I’ve got to figure this thing out and think about it. Obviously [Marquardt and Dan Henderson] are both in the mix for a title shot against Anderson.”COMPLETELY contradicts your entire reason for using the word.
by Chris Barton on Sep 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
“[Silva] wants to fight the biggest fights possible,” Soares said. “Right now, I think Nate Marquardt had a great fight tonight. I think the fight that should happen is Nate Marquardt vs. Dan Henderson for the No. 1 title contender. That’s what I believe.”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
not wanting to fight someone is not ducking
until you actually refuse to fight them.
btw
even if you believe your word choice is technically correct it’s obviously inflammatory which i would argue is still poor word choice
it's a blog
I’m an opinion writer.
deal with it.
if you want safe and boring, go somewhere else.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Which, even if you’re right, doesn’t make it “ducking”. You posted the definition and you’re STILL wrong about how it’s used.
Add to that your entire basis for him not wanting to fight Nate or Hendo is based on nonsense assumptions taking quotes and reading into them what you want. Which is fine really, but when you declare those assumptions as some sort of “clear” fact or gospel it’s no longer fine and that’s why you get called out on this stuff.
by Chris Barton on Sep 13, 2009 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Its only ducking if you’re not in the UFC ala Fedor
by BruceLeeroy on Sep 12, 2009 8:19 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Shhhhhhh be quiet!
If you talk badly about Fedor Lightning will strike you and your balls will turn to dust…
Just a warning.
They should give him $250k to show, 200k to win, 4 fight contract.
He would not be highest paid and also get no PPV %, but it is a fairly fair salary to Dan given the likelihood of him losing, and the kind of competition his next fights would be against.
He probably wants a higher base salary cuz he knows there’s a good chance he’ll lose, that’s most likely the sticking point.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 8:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
100 to show and 150 to win isnt fair. same caliber fighters get 250 to show.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Give Dan more money!!
The question is how much more. I say 200 to show, 200 to win. He should be making at least as much as Nog.
Plus Anderson Silva is clearly ducking both he and Nate Marquardt in search of bigger pay day opponents like Randy Couture or Vitor Belfort.
As others have pointed out, this is borderline ridiculous. It would be borderline ridiculous to say he “is” ducking them, but to say he is “clearly” ducking them is beyond what I’ve come to expect from the fine writers here. I’m disappointed in that assessment.
On the subject of Henderson, I hope they do pay him. And I hope Marquardt retires him. I’m so far finished with Dan Henderson and his sense of self-entitlement based on his past accomplishments in Pride that it’s not even funny. The guy seems to think he’s done something since coming to the UFC that merits him being able to demand whatever he wants and have the organization just bend over backward and give it to him. What it is he has done lately to merit that, I have no idea.
I said he was ducking them because he wants to make more money
not because he’s afraid of them.
LOL.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I even looked it up
and added the definition to the main post.
Duck: “to evade a duty, question, or responsibility.”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Is it his duty or responsibility to fight two guys he has already beaten? Sorry but I don’t see how that definition helps your argument. I think the word you were looking for is “avoiding”, not “ducking”.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 8:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Semantics. Too many people are concerned with the connotations of the word “Ducking” and not paying attention to Kid Nate’s explanation.
by CliChe Guevara on Sep 13, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I said that I thought Nate’s word use was bad BECAUSE of the reasons Nate listed.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 13, 2009 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Where do you get that from?
His sense of entitlement? If you mean his desire to get a title shot based on his accomplishments since the loss to Silva (and even the fact that he’s the only man to win a round against the Spider in the UFC) and his skillset which make him the most logical threat to Silva in the UFC, then yeah, guess he has a sense of entitlement…
his desire to get a title shot based on his accomplishments since the loss to Silva
… which is what? He was given a decision that arguably could/should have gone to Franklin, he won a decision against Palhares, and Bisping (who pretty much everyone felt was overrated) walked right into his right hand. As far as I can tell he’s given everyone exactly zero reason to think a rematch will be any different than the first fight, which wasn’t really all that long ago.
Marquardt, on the other hand, has demonstrated a lot of growth and development since his loss, and has been patient enough to wait for it.
I have always been a fan of Henderson. Now I’m tired of him.
bisping a striker, walked into hendersons hand, nate knocked out maia who is not a striker. I dont want to argue about this, Im fine with hendo vs. nate. I just want the ufc to sign hendo tomorrow.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Maia is Nates biggest win and he was not even tested against the top of the division and look what happened when he was. Maia is amazing dont get me wrong but he needs some form of stand up if he hopes to become a champion. Dan beat Franklin and as for the decision if thats the case maybe Wand should have beat franklin of Guida should have beat sanchaz, but the decision was for Dan, when fights are close its hard to discredit the win. Either guy could have won but Henderson did
allow me to retort....
lost a 3-2 decision to rampage at 205, lost to silva but wasnt dominated like everyone else, beat franklin at 205, sent bisping back to the drawing board and is ranked #2 at middle weight and should beranked higher at 205. Pay the man dana your throwing money at evryone else.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
not dominated in silva fashion like franklin twice, leben, forrest etc.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC 101 salaries?
A little off topic, but why weren’t they released?
Probably don’t have to in Pennsylvania, usually unless it’s in Nevada salaries aren’t released.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 8:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ahhh, thanks. Sucks, I was wanting to know what Silva was making nowadays. I heard his contract changed after the Leites fight.
Yeah I was looking for his salaries online thhe other day and the last one I could find was his fight against Irvin and since then he’s fought in Chicago, Canada, and Philly.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 9:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
it's easy to say pay the man...
but i agree, pay the man!
by cagefightonacid on Sep 12, 2009 8:36 PM EDT reply actions
it’s easier to type it!
Even a broken clock is right two times a day.
by Chris Toffer on Sep 12, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, it’s very easy to say when it’s not your money. Just giving these guys whatever salary they ask for is probably not a good precedent to set.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 8:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
if he's headling PPVs
he’ll earn it. The UFC pays out a far lower % of net revenue than any other major sporting promotion.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
But it’s growing, and rapidly. The percentage was close to 35% for UFC 102. They’ve been smart about slowly growing the pay base, because it can rapidly get out of control.
by Michael Rome on Sep 12, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
but clearly Henderson can save the UFC 105 PPV and make it a must see event instead of a so-so event. In taking that fight he’s risking a loss that would permanently eliminate him from title contention at the end of his career.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
UFC 105 is gonna be must see anyway, because it’s free. They will get a good rating either way.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 9:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think he could save it by giving the UK fans something worth watching. They seem to be getting pissed lately with the quality of shows over there.
And after KOing Bisping, he’s probably a pretty marketable fighter to the Brits.
They should be getting fed up with their fighters not improving, that isn’t the UFC’s fault.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 10:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Have you noticed the ufc income?
other than the portland show, the ufc does like 4 million at the gate. Their fight payroll is always less than that. The PPV covers a staff of 100 plus other expenses. The money is there.God knows what tito is getting, What about matt hughes and his big contract? Just sign Dan, we only have a few more years of the guy. Its not like he is a 27 year old prima donna.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
and it is our money
as fans we have a right to say when we believe an athlete deserves a larger % of OUR MONEY that we give to the UFC.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Sorry but that just doesn’t work. If you want to support a fighter buy his walkout shirt, telling Lorenzo Fertitta what to do with money that he earned by putting out tens of millions of his own money back in the day when they were losing their ass isn’t our responsibility.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 10:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
A $2 mil investment that’s now worth over $1.2 bil. I don’t think there’s been an owner of a sports franchise that’s ever seen a 6000% increase in value in less than a decade
On top of that they are making pre-tax profits in the 10’s of millions. I would say he has been amply compensated.
and their future cash flow depends on keeping the fans happy
it’s our money we can choose not to spend it on the UFC.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
That’s the problem Nate, most of the fans could probably care less if they see Dan Henderson fight again, that’s why the UFC doesn’t want to give him a big raise. The casual fan doesn’t know that Hendo held two belts simultaneously in Pride, but they DO know that he couldn’t win either title fight when he came into the UFC. If he was a big name he’d already have been paid, unfortunately for him he’s not.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 10:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the casual fan knows who nog is?cro cop? rua(who has a big contract)?, lyoto machida? Just pay dan.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t believe any of those guys make significantly more than Hendo.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 10:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
not much more but the $ to show im pretty sure is higher.I think rua is 250 to show.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I think $250k to show with a $150k win bonus is fair but it seems like he’s looking for more than that.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 11:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed, but he also shouldn’t be asking for Chuck Liddell money when he doesn’t draw.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 11:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe not Chuck, but I think he can ask for a lot more than he ever normally could get, or is even worth. And the reason is because I don’t think the UFC can even risk letting him go to StrikeForce. The last thing they want is a top UFC fighter to jump over to this upstart “StrikeFarce”.
We don’t know if Dan is a draw post-TUF or not. There is no arguing that.
by Screwface on Sep 13, 2009 1:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Henderson has a ton of fans
after the TUF series and his UFC 100 performance.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Perhaps but what do you honestly think a north American ppv headlined by Hendo would pull in terms of buys against someone like Marquardt? 400,000? It’s not like he’s all of a sudden turned into GSP.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 11:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he's got to ask for more than he expects to get
it’s called negotiating.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
How do you know he won’t draw better? I’m not trying to be a dick, but if we raced our cars and you win, and I go spend $20k in upgrades, you can’t say that you’d win again without racing me again.
by Screwface on Sep 13, 2009 1:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The point is he has NEVER been a draw to this point, so without any proof that he is now a draw why would the UFC pay him as if he is one?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
To put it in terms of your anology, the UFC giving Dan a big pay raise would be like us betting on the race and me paying you before we even race, simply assuming I would lose.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
If pay corresponded solely to popularity and not to performance. In tennis’s Grand Slam events pay is based on winning. If you are a popular draw you can capitalize on that with endorsements. I would love if somehow the UFC could duplicate that. Don’t know how, just saying I would be happier camper.
The biggest difference is, the UFC is now invested in Hendo. Three fighters got highlights on SportsCenter after 100, Hendo, GSP, and Brock. He is now a commodity wherever he goes. Plus his fight against Rampage was the highest rated free show on Spike. I’m not saying he deserves 500k to show, but 250 to show + 250 to win is not out of the question.
by Screwface on Sep 13, 2009 4:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They may have only “invested” $2 mil initially but they lost $40+ mil to get it where it is today, and that was through their hard work, nobody handed this to them. They deserve whatever rewards they get.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 10:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They must be doing something right, UFC talk has us talking to eachother over a computer on a sat night on a website called bloodyelbow. God damn it Dana, PAY THE MAN, announce the headline mon morning.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I am a capitalist, so I do believe they deserve whatever money they make off their investment. Except for the fact that we have currently have a monopsony and their “rewards” are inflated by their employees depressed pay. “Depressed” in regard to what the labor supply market should dictate.
That’s not true, if there were someone willing to pay them more they’d be getting it. Why do you think Affliction is out of business? Because guys like Matt Lindland aren’t worth $300,000 a fight, that’s why.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 10:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That’s partly my point, there is no one else willing or able to pay as much. Affliction, even with the best stable of HWs in the world could only muster 100,000 PPV. How much do you think that card would have done with the UFC logo in front of it? Supposedly those huge salaries were based on the prediction that eventually Affliction would sell 350,000 in PPV sales. If that’s all it takes to cover all of Afflictions massive payroll than I believe the UFC could afford more.
Keep in mind Affliction would have been ok breaking even as the shows were basically one big ad for the clothing company. The UFC has a helluva lot more things to worry about than Affliction did.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 10:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
affliction paid sylvia 800k to fight fedor and 500k for arlovski. Of course they went out of business.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep in mind too though, that the UFC has many more avenues for revenue- sponsors, video games, collectibles… outside of payperview and the gate.
your right
ufc make 3-4 million at gate, 800k ppv buys equals 40 million. bud light pays? 800k? movie ads? 100k?share of venue concessions? they gross 50 million per show. if the expenses for all is 30 million which i doubt, dana and brother split 20 million 5 times a year. not bad.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously you don’t know a whole lot about how the business works if you think the UFC clears $40 mil from 800k buys.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 11:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
ok walla idiot:
50 dollars times 800,000 equals 40 million. ask your calculator not me. Second I wrote that it grosses 50 million with everything. Their is a difference between “clearing” and gross. I wrote that they clear 20 million at most. Maybe you work off the books so your not familiar with the difference. “Obviously you dont know much about reading comprehension”-you just got hit like bisping.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC gets less than half of the PPV money.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
And keep in mind that is why the UFC has held over a hundred events while Affliction held two. Would you rather get a job at company A making $200,000 a year but they go out of business in a year or company B where you make only $50,000 a year but they will be around for at least ten years?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 11:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I have a no problem with them being somewhat conservative, but when your company’s value is up 6000% and pre-tax profits hover close to $100 mil a year
http://www.mademan.com/2008/08/someone-wealthier-you-dana-white-and-his-rise-multi-millions_04
I think we’ve reached the point were fighters could get a much larger piece of the pie. Think Dana’s net worth has gone from 0 to an estimated $100-200 million, along with a salary (estimated at $2 mil a year) plus 10% of profits ($10 mil a year?). That’s f-ing incredible. I don’t begrudge the man’s success (OK a little bit) but when compared to his payouts it seems as if the fighters are getting below what their labors demand.
And I think fighters are getting a larger piece of the pie as shown by the contracts recently signed by Randy Couture and Matt Hughes. Perhaps salaries aren’t growing as quickly as some would like but let’s keep in mind that Zuffa is reinvesting a lot of those millions back into the company so the guys ten, twenty, and fifty years from now CAN be compensated better and so the company can keep growing.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 13, 2009 8:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
speaking of being around for 20 , 30 years, Dana has mentioned a Pension for the fighters so that they dont go broke like almost every boxer does past 50 years old. thats a real company. Take that Bob Arum and your white, skin head remarks.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 13, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Before we digress anymore, my point is the UFC is basically a monopsony. They have no competition for the labor of their fighters – with maybe the exception of StrikeForce, and right now they have a limited influence. If we had a more “normal” labor market, fighters would make a much higher cut, and I would be happy for the millions the Fetrtitas and White make.
I think there are a certain number of guys who bring in a big number of viewers and those guys are compensated as such. For the most part everyone else is a replacable part. Is it fair? No, but that’s life.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 11:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That why I am against a monopsony. And if no other competition can form to compete for fighters, I would love to see a fighters’ union – but I won’t hold my breathe.
Just mail your favorite fighter a $20 if you feel that strongly about it.
Keep firing Assholes!
Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.
Gina won't give me her address...
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 12, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
well put!!
awesome point! i was just saying it’s a complicated issue and easy to relate to both sides, especially since we don’t know the exact numbers being thrown around.
by cagefightonacid on Sep 12, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
This is why all the fighters should be thankful for StrikeForce. Do you think Dan would have any leverage if there was not another company out there that could compete for his services?
Hey Dana I want $500,000 for my next fight.
Is there any other promotion that could pay you more than $100,000?
No.
I’ll give you a $110,000.
Too bad guys, Dana needs to save some extra bucks so he can buy this T-Rex skull for his bedroom.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
Dana already has a T-Rex skull, he uses it for a toilet.
You’re way off base if you think that 100k off of Hendo’s salary goes directly in Dana’s pocket. You have to play a little tough or else you end up all bloated and farty like Affliction did.
Keep firing Assholes!
Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.
Don’t act like seeing him buy that saber tooth tiger skull wasn’t some of the coolest shit you’ve ever seen.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 9:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Vitor would not be a bigger payday than Henderson. Even Couture coming off a loss would probably only be 100k better. Soares is notorious for being an idiot about what will draw for his clients, probably being stupid here too. Henderson came off the reality show coaching team America, and knocked the foreign opponent the fuck out on the most watched UFC show of all time. There will never, ever be a time Dan is a bigger draw than now.
less he beats Nate in similar fashion. then its a very clear HUUUUGE fight. Or if nate beats hendo in spectacular fashion. either way, id imagine one coming out on top with a great showing is gonna double the hype for the nat/dan vs. anderson fight
Even a broken clock is right two times a day.
by Chris Toffer on Sep 12, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way, new UFC star contracts have provisions for Spike TV shows where PPV escalators are changed to TV ratings escalators.
UFC should give Dan a small base and a huge escalator, he’s never going to be a huge PPV draw anyway.
I agree with that, that would actually make dan talk a ton of trash hyping fights.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s worth what the UFC is willing to pay him, and the UFC ain’t paying him more than how much profit they can make off of him. I can see where he’s coming from. this is his last hooraw, he needs to do whatever he can to make the most of it.
Ducking someone in MMA has taken on the connotation of fear, which is why people are mentioning it. Regardless of what the dictionary says, words are ultimately defined by their surroundings and context. Not that I give a crap.
Dave
Dan’s a great fighter indeed…but that ain’t enough to pay the bills. At this point, Kimbo, who isn’t even in the UFC, is a bigger draw than he is.
Honestly, Kimbo is a top 5 draw. Ask any moron on the street. They have heard of lesnar, kimbo, maybe chuck maybe couture. By the way Hendo would beat kimbo.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
What he thinks he deserves is more money than the $350,000 he made for beating Bisping.
Clearly Hendo is delusinal if he thinks he’s in any position to be demanding anything from the UFC considering he’s hardly a draw. The idea that he thinks he’s going to be getting 350k a fight is laughable and just shows just how out of touch some guys are with reality sadly for him he’s going to find that out how little he means to the UFC.
ok. the 185 lb class is weak, and he can fight 195 and 205. he got 350 for bisping, 100 was ko bonus, and 150 was for winning. that 100k to show, alot of ufc fighter get 200-400 for showing. dan should get some more gauranteed.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions
The only guys who get $400k for showing are HUGE names-Couture, Liddell, St Pierre, Lesnar.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 12, 2009 10:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you forgot one thing:
that not including their ppv %. those guys make millions each fight. Lesnar 3 million his last fight. chuck hasnt made less than a million per fight in years. hendo for a total of 350k and no more is well well worth it. couture made almost 2 million vs. gonzaga.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but there is a reason they get thier % of the ppv
Look at Hendo
UFC 75 – Yes it did well but partly because it was free and partly because the LHW belt was on the line.
UFC 82-325K buys no bad but not great
UFC 88 – 480K buys but that was with Chuck main eventing
UFC 93-350K buys again not bad but no great’
UFC 100-1.7 MILLION now I’m sure Dan and Bisping accounted for a little of that but let’s be real people order 100 because it was 100, Lesnar, and GSP.
I dont know all these guys you think make 400k to show. I can think of Lesnar and Liddell. Yeah GSP and Rashad are 200k to show but they are bigger stars than Dan.
It’s not just about how good you are. It’s about ability to draw.
You are a big mma fan.
I surrender.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I can only think of 2 that get 400k+ just to show.
Lesnar and Liddell
GSP got 200k to show and 200k to win
Randy got 250k to show at 91 and 102.
Nog at 102 got 250k to show and 150k to win
There are beggining to be a lot of guys that get 200k to show but two guys get 300k+ to show Lesnar and Liddell who are huge in mma.
Im going to refi my house:
and buy 15,000 ppv views when hendo fights just to help prove everyone wrong.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
not sure if you have an excel spread sheet somewhere of the salaries but how much does rua, forrest, rampage, hughes, penn, wanderliei get?
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish
If I need facts I just google. And for like Randy or Lesnar I just remember the last ppv they’re on and google UFC __ salaries. Sorry.
I know, I was half joking.
“Just the good half”-Henry meeting karens mother for the first time in goodfellas.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 12, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
to help you out with how much they make off ppv – Under terms Couture revealed during a press conference in October 2007, his PPV bonuses breaks down like this:
100,000-175,000 buys: $1 per buy
175,000-300,000 buys: $1.50 per
300,000-330,000 buys: $2 per
330,000+ buys: $3 per
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/josh_gross/12/05/mailbag-12-05/#ixzz0QxBo91Ok
thats what makes it so tricky. we know hendo is worth more than his last deal. I dont think thats being debated.
but is the dude asking for PPV % liek that? cuz im sorry… I’m a HUGE hendo fan. a big ole fanboy. But he just isnt the draw to get those % points. If he is askin straight pay- I think he can def be one of the higher paid guys (sure GSP get 200k to show, but I think he gets ppv % too)
Its just so hard to judge, and Hendo isnt stupid enough to tell the world what he wants and piss the UFC off.
Even a broken clock is right two times a day.
by Chris Toffer on Sep 12, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
so for a Theoretical $1,000,000 PPV Event he makes
75,000(1) + 125,000(1.5) + 30,000(2) + 670,000(3)
75,000+187,5000+60,000+2.01million. So 2.3 mill roughly. Not too shabby.
That depends on who you talk to.
The following events were “reported” to do over a million again no saying it is true but it was reported.
UFC 66
UFC 91
UFC 92
UFC 94
UFC 100
UFC 101
UFC is like the Yankees?
why doesnt the ufc do what the yankees do and just defer the money over a few years. Clemens last contract was paying him until 2020.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 13, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
As long as you have a dictionary handy
Why don’t you look up the words
“Connotation”
“Denotation” (to note the difference between the two)
and
“Context.”
by Fibbus on Sep 13, 2009 12:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'd rather not have Hendo and Nate fight...
… I’d rather have Silva just fight both, but whatever, fuck it. Hendo needs to get paid. I say pay the man. He’s more than deserved it.
I love me some Sexyama!
Dan Henderson made his name in Pride, not the UFC and he hasn’t done a whole lot in the UFC to be paid like one of the top guys. Everyone is acting like the UFC should pay him for what he accomplished in Japan.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
Like I said, that’s all from what he accomplished in Pride. If he wasn’t Dan Henderson would he be ranked that highly simply by what he has done in the UFC? A 3-2 record with one of those wins very controversial would not have him ranked that highly if he didn’t accomplish what he did in Pride.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
Find me someone who has entered the UFC and has gone the distance with Rampage in his first fight, won the only round Silva has ever lost in the UFC in his second fight, than won three in row against Palhares, Franklin, and Bisping, and I bet you that guy would be a star.
he is ranked #2 mw and #16 lhw. You think he is worse than that? Bisping would be considered a star if hendo didnt KO him so brutally. UFC wanted bisping silva in manchester. plus dont forget beating franklin. I dont see nate marquardt going 5 rounds with rampage.
by mid.vill.queens on Sep 13, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions
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