Do MMA Fans Expect Less From British MMA Fighters?
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 11:08 AM EDT
in News
83 comments
Dan Hardy talks to Sherdog.com regarding the issue of American fans being "down" on U.K. fighters:
"I think all the British fighters will probably agree with me when I say I think that we feel we’re up against it as far as fan support goes," he said. "I think people expect less of us because we’re from the U.K., because they assume we don’t have the right kind of training and coaching in the U.K., which is why I spend so much time (in the U.S.)."
Hardy stays in the U.S. for months at a time studying from trainers like Freddie Roach and Eddie Bravo before traveling back to England and his Rough House team to share what he’s picked up.
...
"Everyone’s been down on the U.K. for a little while, and I think that’s partly due to the fact that the British fans are so vocal about the British fighters because it’s such a new thing for us," said Hardy. "We haven’t had any fighters that can compete at that level."
It's an interesting issue, and Dan Hardy surprises me a bit with his answer because I haven't heard other British fighters state their awareness of the real reason why some fans are down on British MMA fighters. While a lot of casual fans saw Michael Bisping's arrogance as a detractor on The Ultimate Fighter, there are plenty of fans out there that are reluctant to embrace British fighters due to the perceived skill gap. I would be one of them.
I've been watching British MMA for quite some time, and I had come to the conclusion, similar to what Hardy states in the article, that the training in the British scene isn't up to par with the type of training that American or Japanese fighters receive. The biggest difference is obviously the wrestling game. The U.S. not only has high school programs, but amateur collegiate programs littering the Midwest scene. It's become a staple within a MMA fighter's skill-set, and British fighters are at a disadvantage without heading out to different camps to become exposed to high-level wrestling skills.
While that's definitely a big problem, I also found that the early culture of MMA still resides within the scene in Britain. If we think back a decade, a lot of regional events and even battles in the UFC were reliant on the "slugfest", and British MMA is going through the same type of infancy stage in their own regional promotions. While there are legitimate fighters getting better in all aspects of the sport, regional promotions such as the now-defunct Cage Rage looked to brawlers for entertainment. Neil Grove, released by the UFC in May, was one of the bigger forces within the promotion because his style was fairly simple to understand... he wanted to knock you out.
Thankfully, the solution is presented by Hardy in the interview. Heading to different camps within the U.S. is something that is probably essential for British fighters looking to be successful, but Bisping also has the inside edge as well. Bringing over top-notch fighters from the U.S. to not only help him train, but help his teammates train as well is helpful. It'll also expose up-and-comers from Britain to the wrestling that they'll need to succeed. Brazilian jiu-jitsu has already made some real strides in the country, and we can see that from some of the current British UFC fighters already.
British MMA will continue to grow, but I'm still not too keen on the number of prospects coming out of the country that exude quality. It is improving though, but it's nice to see that the most successful British fighters truly see why some fans are reluctant to support them. It can only help them realize the type of training they need to succeed.
0 recs |
83 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Grove was cut from the UFC.
http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl
by Venom77 on Sep 10, 2009 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ahh, you’re right.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting topic. i assume there will be better and better british fighters emerging as the sport gets more popular over there.
the lack of a wrestling culture/system in that country is worth debating. but isn’t there a similar lack of wrestling in brazil, where obviously so many strong fighters come from?
by GregS123 on Sep 10, 2009 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but Brazil is a different debate. They have a huge base of Brazilian jiu-jitsu practicioners, and they use that style of combat to counter wrestlers. The big problem, however, is that there seems to be more of an advantage for strong wrestlers to defeat those jiu-jitsu fighters on a consistent basis. Of course, there are outliers such as Demian Maia.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup, so then the question is what unique talents/strengths might british fighters bring to the table. boxing?
by GregS123 on Sep 10, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think they do. I mean, they have some solid boxing trainers up there, but you wouldn’t know it if you watched MMA in Britain 5 years ago. Lot of looping punches and brawls went on. I think, ultimately, that’s their striking base is a strength though.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wrestling vs. BJJ
has consistently produced my favorite fights and match-ups. Why do you feel strong wrestlers have more of an advantage jiu-jitsu practitioners in MMA? Are there statistics somewhere that have shown fighters who predominantly specialize as wrestlers have won fights more consistently over BJJ fighters?
by rzor on Sep 10, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, there are a lot of top controlling wrestlers that just have that style to stay out of guard and crush jiu-jitsu guys. Of course, BJJ evolves just like anything else. Look at Demian Maia. A few guys come to mind though, and you can look at some fighters that are known as solid BJJ guys that fail to defeat wrestlers a lot. Nick Diaz is one, but I think wrestlers know that the combination of muscle, power, strength along with their wrestling is a huge thing to overcome for technicians in BJJ. Of course, power grapplers could be the counter to that. Strong, strong guys with great jiu-jitsu. Paulo Filho normally gets thrown into that category, but his major problem is that he has ridiculously bad stand-up.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those wrestlers succeed because they study BJJ… sure, they are concentrating on the defense, but its not power or strength or wrestling, its BJJ counters to BJJ techniques. All that guard passing and posturing up and sitting on hips for GnP or flattening out a half guard is still BJJ.
by judonerd on Sep 10, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't BJJ designed and hardened against wrestlers?
Meaning that it would be the same thing in reverse. Studied for defense, but still … Same thing with striking, they learned enough to avoid it and hit the clinch, etc.
Same iwth all martial arts, I suppose.
by asa on Sep 10, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with finding such a statistic is that it would be grossly inaccurate and wouldn’t really point out the truth. For example, Chael Sonnen and CB Dollaway are good wrestlers with bad submission defense. I feel that wrestling and submission defense are two different things. Add in striking in MMA and a BJJ practitioner can potentially soften up a wrestler to set up a submission.
by chrisbboy82 on Sep 10, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think your poll sorta assumes that everyone thinks that British MMA sucks.
My answer is No, it did not change.. Not because i think they’re bar room brawlers, nor is it because there are only a handful decent fighters, and the rest still suck.. It didn’t change because i never thought they were bad anyway, and the increasing number of British fighters in major MMA promotions just further confirms what I have been thinking..
if you look at the average fighters, the US, Brazil and Japan are slightly better i think, but compared to the all the other countries in the world, they’re pretty good..
How many other countries can match their level of talent?
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 10, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Good points here,
I will concede that comparing UK to USA & Brazil is unfair on the Brits, but given that is where most of the others come from it cannot be helped.
In London, the Carlson Gracie BJJ schools have been exploding with new attendees as of late, and there are several MMA training centres around the place, so hopefully it is only a matter of time until lower tier fighters are the same level as the top MMA countries.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another good point I was going to mention. BJJ has began to flourish in Britain, and it’s evident from the Ultimate Fighter show and from other British fighters fighting outside the UFC. It is only a matter of time.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting point of view.
My poll isn’t saying that British MMA sucks… but rather it’s hinting at the progression of it to a higher level. I’ve watched so much British MMA over the years that I can generally look at an event from the past and see the majority of a British card as having glaring weaknesses, likely due to the lack of training partners, coaches.
I think it’s improved a bit, but not substantially. As Hardy states, he had to go to the US to find those trainers, and Bisping is doing something different by making his gym one of the elite and bringing over fighters.
But yes… compared to other countries, Britain has an edge. I was going to actually include that viewpoint, but to not make this really verbose I didn’t.
France is the perfect example. MMA might actually still be outlawed there, can’t remember if they lifted that or not, but Muay Thai is allowed along with kickboxing. So a lot of those guys come out with great stand-up, but haven’t got a way to learn jiu-jitsu from solid coaches. Of course, there are outliers. But Britian is probably at least top 4.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep.
Compare it to the other countries that the UFC wants to venture in, Germany, Ireland, Korea, Russia, Philippines etc etc.. they have produced a few UFC fighters, but the average won’t even come close to the level of talent the British guys have..
so the Brits might not be as good compared to the US, Japan and Brazil, but they certainly aren’t bad because none of the other countries can even come close..
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 10, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Germany definitely lacks, but Koreans have some advantages due to the Judo scene. Russia has some problems because it seems like a lot of the guys coming out of there have problems with wrestlers and strikers. Fedor is a Sambo genius, and people don’t realize that… because you really don’t see people on his level coming out of there at all… not even close.
I think the reason Britain gets some more focus than those countries is because they have fighters at the UFC level, but they also produce a lot more fighters too.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s legal in france since spring 2008. We don’t do wrestling at all. The first time I heard of a wrestling club it was on a campus. But many people do Muay Thai. We don’t do much sport at school (never competitively, no inter school tournaments and stuff like that) , if you want to do a sport you train in a club. Wrestlings is really non existent here.
What’s really strange is the lack of judo with french MMA fighters. You can find a good judo club anywhere, we got plenty of medalist, but I can’t think of one french fighter with a judo background.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
by spectaa on Sep 10, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My pleasure, and I might add that we had UFC PPV back in the 90s, then they banned UFC from TV. UFC events came back on TV recently, like 6 month ago, and they are trying to shut it down once again. So we had no UFC on TV for like 10 years. But we did had Pride events on DVD, and they worked pretty well. Most young alpha males know who crocop is here :D.
Leland: Yeah, there are some MMA gyms. I know two guys, both training in different gyms, and they don’t live very far away, so I would bet there are quite a few, at least in/near the big cities.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
by spectaa on Sep 10, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How good are the coaches out there? Some solid credentialed people?
I feel like I live in kind of a similar area to France… lol. I live in Central IL, and there are some wrestling trainers here.. but for the most part, jiu-jitsu is very hard to get quality trainers for around here. The highest level I’ve seen is a blue belt.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really have no idea.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
by spectaa on Sep 10, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting… I know Muay Thai was huge even when MMA was illegal, and I know Muay Thai is the preferred stand-up style there. Are there BJJ gyms beginning to open up? MMA gyms?
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cant forget about the Canadians, unless you’re lumping them in with the americans
by brazary on Sep 10, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’d even go so far as to say i’ve never cared about any fighter’s nationality. it’s kind of pointless considering that they can cross borders to train anyway. this whole us vs. uk stuff baffles the hell out of me and i really only noticed it was for real when so many people got off on hendo’s late shot on bisping. i thought it was just the gimmick for a show, i didn’t realize how many stupid people there were who’d created a rivalry in their heads.
by K Krush on Sep 10, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely agree with this point of view
Just have a look at the card for 105 for evidence. Not alot of excitement on that undercard compared to recent UFC events…
Bisping Co-main eventing as well behind a fringe top 10 debutant.
Marquadt v Hendo would go a long way to making this more enjoyable for me!
I will still go, but all the UK fighters on the card certainly bring the quality down.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Props to Hardy for willing to expand his game. He recently just got his Purple (i think) from Eddie Bravo.
by I Can't Feel My Face on Sep 10, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He still looked totally lost in his top game against Davis though.
Only watched that fight once but I remember that was the impression I had.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The article mentions High School wrestling but fails to mention byt that time many kids have wrestled since they were 5.
I do not dislike British fighters. I do agree that the level of training there is well below what we have here and one of the reasons I have said Bisping would be a much better fighter if he went to a ATT, AKA, Jackson Academy or Xtreme Couture. Wolfslair is not doing squat for him as a fighter.
www.mmagospel.com
www.blogtalkradio.com/MMAGospel
by Stay Down on Sep 10, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Look at Kongo’s wrestling for evidence.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha jinx… plus all this stuff happening with salmon.. i want rampage to get outta there
by amadeus on Sep 10, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
Their gameplans suck, their fighters don’t seem to fill the holes in their game, what would anyone want to go there for?
Granted, this is just basing it off the most recent fights by Kongo, Page & Bisping
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kind of quick to jump to this conclusion.
since kongo lost to cain v, does that mean that everyone who cain has beaten has a sucky gameplan?
since bisping lost to henderson, does that mean that everyone who henderson has beaten has a sucky gameplan?
maybe it’s not greg jackson’s camp, but seems to me like wolfslair is building a good team.
by GregS123 on Sep 10, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is not about the loss, it is about their gameplan!
Did you watch the fights?
Kongo SHOT & CLINCHED with Cain when he almost KO’d him 3 times. Great game planning? No.
Bisping, as everyone with access to the internet knows, got KTFO by circling into the powerhand of Hendo. Great game planning? No.
Rampage only barely got the job done against Keith Jardine! He has become one dimensional and has looked shaky when he does not KO his opponent with his boxing. Even one takedown now and again with his wrestling could have made the victory alot easier for him. Once again, great game planning? No.
None of these fighters seem to be developing the aspects of their game which are deficient, especially Kongo. Don’t get me wrong, they are good fighters, especially Page, but I want to see fighters DEVELOPING at their camps, which from all evidence I have seen, does not appear to be happening at the Wolf’s Lair. This is why I do not think it is a good team.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good points but i think you are holding wolfslair to a higher standard.
a lot of other camps you could deconstruct their fights and point out how bad their gameplans are. effective gameplanning is very tough, and even the best get it wrong, ie; Rashad Evans against Machida.
by GregS123 on Sep 10, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could be right about holding it to a higher standard. As far as UK gyms go it is probably far ahead of the others.
I just can’t help but wonder what could have been with Bisping, or how good Page & Kongo would be right now if they had spent the last few years at AKA or Jacksons instead of messing around over here. When they finish theirs careers, sure come and open a gym in the UK. This for mine is the best way of nurturing the thomegrown talent; have your best go to where the best coaching is, and bring it home when they are done.
A semi-relevant point: James Wilks recognised that USA was the place to be for training if he wanted to be a fighter, and moved there years ago.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dan hardy said the same thing in the article above…
by GregS123 on Sep 10, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you watch the Kongo/Cain fight and the Bisping/Hendo fight you can clearly see (and hear!) their corners freaking out for what they were doing during the round. Bisping’s corner man was literally screaming at him for circling left. I don’t think you can attribute those loses to poor planning, they were just beaten by better fighters.
How appropriate, You fight like a cow.
by MaturdayNight on Sep 10, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just went back and rewatched Hendo Bisping
You are spot on. Bisping is just dumb.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 11, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kongo is a bit different though. He comes from France, a country that outlawed MMA, so there probably isn’t a huge market for someone to say “France would be a good idea to open an MMA gym.”
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wolfslair seems to not be doing much for anyone, look at Kongo as well
by amadeus on Sep 10, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sort of question bringing in Salmon as a wrestling partner. He isn’t that solid or quick.,
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes but he’s a master of unconventional submission escapes
by GregS123 on Sep 10, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is better at escaping cuts by getting submitted.
by Invictus on Sep 10, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Bisping, Kongo, Rampage…..the camp is awful IMO and we will not see a top tier fighter come from that camp.
www.mmagospel.com
www.blogtalkradio.com/MMAGospel
by Stay Down on Sep 10, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No..tell me one top tier fighter they have produced? Name one and I wil, shut up. Do not even say Bisping because he is not top tier
www.mmagospel.com
www.blogtalkradio.com/MMAGospel
by Stay Down on Sep 10, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well, i guess it just depends on your definition of top tier. if you only mean the top 5 guys in the world, then i suppose you are right.
but bisping is a great fighter even if he got KTFO and will probably never be champ. he’s still a bad man.
by GregS123 on Sep 10, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok but
how can you include saying “Rampage” and then saying they’re awful? that makes no sense at all
by I Can't Feel My Face on Sep 10, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wolfslair is only responsible for a tiny fraction of the success Rampage achieved throughout his career. So no, the UK did not produce him.
by dv8shun on Sep 10, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
stay down’s FIRST argument was that the whole camp was awful. regardless of who produced who.
it’s just not a great argument unless you start adding all kinds of random qualifiers.
by GregS123 on Sep 10, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean when people ask follow-up questions
he should ignore them?
by asa on Sep 10, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never said he was a product of wolfslair. i just don’t understand how including Rampage’s name helps the argument for saying that they are an awful camp.
by I Can't Feel My Face on Sep 10, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bisping is much better than most of the fighters that the country has produced, and Hardy is a solid fighter in all areas for a British fighter. They haven’t attained titles yet, but the prospect of that happening is much better now than it was 5 years ago.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think hes just talking about wolfslair tho.
by I Can't Feel My Face on Sep 10, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about other fight fans
But for me, the UK cards (While free, which I appreciate) tend to be pretty weak in general and because it’s usually the same UK guys on the cards, you can’t help but think “God, these UK guys are bringing down these UK shows”. As illogical as it is.
If anything, I think the UK guys or their managers should make a point to Joe Silva or whatever to fight anywhere, anytime and not just sit back in the gym and wait for the overseas events to come along. Oh and saying stuff like “I love fighting in my backyard in front of you UK fans” or whatever isn’t exactly going to endear you with the non-UK fans. It comes across as an unintentional slap to the rest of the fanbase. That’s just me.
by dv8shun on Sep 10, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but the UFC is a business. They’ll push UK faces in front of UK fans. It’s just naturally that way.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting if that’s what people feel. the UFC is putting all these UK guys on the cards because they want to drum up ticket sales and interest from the locals.
same reason you put GSP on a montreal card.
but maybe they are taking this strategy too far.
by GregS123 on Sep 10, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow i’ve never seen a more wrong statement, sorry
by amadeus on Sep 10, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why I said:
“But for me” and “That’s just me.”
by dv8shun on Sep 10, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
chronologically, geographically, and, um, skillalogically, the UK is behind the leaders. Fact.
But, as a relatively wealthy and advanced nation, it won’t take long to level the playing field.
Smaller or less affluent countries will have a harder time catching up.
Be water, my friend.
http://martialfarts.fightlinker.com
http://twitter.com/martialfarts
by Martial Farts on Sep 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
I believe UK is ahead of USA on time difference, which would be chronologically and geographically right?
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Canadians don't wrestle, either.
But then, we’re also not big on school sports. Most sporting activities here occur through clubs rather than schools, so there’s less penetration.
You’d think our hockey training would make us good at dirty boxing, though.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Sep 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You’d think our hockey training would make us good at dirty boxing, though.
I’m sure they’d be better if more people wore gi’s. It’s hard to pull the jersey up over the head trick when a guy isn’t wearing a shirt.
by Steve4192 on Sep 10, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re Wolfslair and Kongo – could people stop ignoring the fact that Kongo blew out his knee a week before the fight? Thanks.
by An0nymous on Sep 10, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Really?
I did NOT hear that anywhere. Was it bad?
If you have a link of any sort it would be great.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/kongos-trainer-analyzes-recent-loss-future-18132
Kongo (13-5-1) took the bout on three weeks’ notice to replace an injured Heath Herring. Many fans are asking why.
Sherdog.com: What went through your head cageside as you watched him fight Velasquez?
Light: "Get off your back," is what I kept thinking. It was hard for me because I kept seeing glimpses of who he really is in the fight. I’ve just never seen him so exhausted. He fought like a warrior. He didn’t quit, but the exhaustion was what got him. He twisted his knee real bad before the fight, which stopped him from running. We sparred only one day before that fight –- one session is all we got. Knowing that, it hurt to watch the fight.
by An0nymous on Sep 10, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow! Thnx for that. Good info.
Short notice AND no training. That is terrible.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 10, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the fact that Kongo blew out his knee a week before the fight
He twisted his knee real bad before the fight
Just an FYI, but twisting you knee is not the same thing as blowing it blowing it out. Blowing out your knee implies surgery. Twisting your knee implies an ouchie.
No fighter ever comes into a fight at 100%. I’m sure Cain had a few nagging injuries of his own, but since he won, no one felt the need to make excuses for him.
by Steve4192 on Sep 10, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And already had nagging injuries, and couldnt hardly train at all, and still almost got the ko a few times.
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Sep 10, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The British are making progress, hopefully more interesting fighters will come. Ricky Hatton should move to MMA, that would be sick!
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Sep 10, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Please do not tell me that you think Kongo has good wrestling skills!
As for my wolfslair comment, yes Rampage is a part of that camp but no, they have nothing to do with his success or lack there of thus far.
I questioned his decision to go to that camp from the get go. Makes no sense to go to a camp where you are the best guy they have.
As for Bisping, until he improves his sub skills and his footwork he will not be a top tier guy
www.mmagospel.com
www.blogtalkradio.com/MMAGospel
by Stay Down on Sep 10, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Please do not tell me that you think Kongo has good wrestling skills!
Who are you taking to? Who has suggested that? The point is that the Cain fight can’t be used as an accurate judge of that or of Wolfslair’s gameplanning. Really we haven’t really had an opportunity to see Kongo wrestle since Herring so we’ve no idea how far he’s come along.
Although at his age it’s always going to be a weakness.
Bisping has good footwork btw, better than most MMA guys. Definitely not one if his weaknesses.
by An0nymous on Sep 10, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bisping has good footwork btw, better than most MMA guys.
He’s got better footwork than guys who are primarily grapplers and windmilling neanderthals like Leben, but his footwork is sloppy for a guy who wants to make his living as a technical striker. Hendo even said after the fight that after watching film on him that Bisping always circles left. Bisping’s own corner was screaming at him for making the same mistake over and over again and Dan took advantage of it by baiting him with the inside leg kick and then unloading with the right hand.
If a rudimentary striker like Hendo can manipulate him that easily, then his footwork is far from adequate.
by Steve4192 on Sep 10, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seriously need to learn "reply"
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am well aware of how to reply thank you.
www.mmagospel.com
www.blogtalkradio.com/MMAGospel
by Stay Down on Sep 10, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly, you aren’t. What thread is this aimed at?
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 10, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for Bisping, until he improves his sub skills and his footwork he will not be a top tier guy
There is nothing wrong with Bisping’s submission skills. Tito and Dean Lister both said he gave them fits on the mats during TUF 3, and that was years ago.
Bisping’s problem is that nobody fears what is supposed to be his bread & butter (striking). He’s fallen in love with sticking and moving and doesn’t sit down on his punches anymore. Problem is, he doesn’t have the kind of footwork needed to succeed with that style and it saps what little KO power he has.
by Steve4192 on Sep 10, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking from my own experience of where I live, which is sort of Britain, whilst wrestling is non-existant, kickboxing in particular is very popular here, along with Tae Kwan Do. I live in a very small town but there are 2 kickboxing clubs, and pretty big kickboxing events pretty regularly. I could see more and more British MMA fighters emerging in the future with this as their main skillset, which is sort of the case with guys like Daley and Hardy.
I think the standard will catch up, but it will still take a bit of time for the level of training to improve to make fighters more well rounded. Wrestling is a pretty big part of MMA though, and I think it will take a while for it to improve here, I can’t see it being taught in schools here like in the US
by StevenGiles on Sep 10, 2009 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
