Lyoto Machida and Mauricio Shogun Rua Promise a Battle of Styles at UFC 104
by Kid Nate on Sep 1, 2009 7:22 PM EDT
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At today's press conference for UFC 104 in Los Angeles, both UFC light heavyweight champion Lyoto Machida and his challenger Mauricio "Shogun" Rua declined to make their upcoming bout personal but they did promise to make it a clash of styles.
Shogun said he is an aggressive fighter and Machida is a counter-fighter. Also, Shogun said it was an opportunity to test his Muay Thai style and prove that it can beat Machida's karate style.
For old school fans this has a disorienting back to the future quality. When MMA first burst upon the scene in the US and Japan in the early 1990s it was seen as first and foremost a test of styles.
Coincidentally the UFC was part-owned by the Gracie family who had a very effective style of their own in Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Initially it seemed that only grapplers like Gracie or wrestlers like Ken Shamrock had effective styles for the Octagon, but with the emergence of Muay Thai striker Marco Ruas in UFC 7 it seemed that a style of striking that worked in MMA had been found.
Even with the emergence of boxer/wrestlers like Tank Abbott and Don Frye and kickboxers like Maurice Smith and Igor Vovchanchyn, Muay Thai still dominated as the preeminent striking style for MMA. The emergence of Brazil's fearsome Chute Boxe camp seemed to cement Muay Thai as the most versatile and effective standup style for MMA.
Ironically, before he trained in Muay Thai at Chute Boxe, Shogun trained in Brazil's traditional capoeira style -- a style whose exponents had fought against jiu jitsu fighters in Brazil for many years, even picking up a huge win over jiu jitsu at the dawn of the modern MMA era. But although Shogun has shown off some crazy spinning kicks from his capoeira roots a time or two, he's predominantly a Muay Thai fighter no doubt.
For most of the past decade the conventional wisdom had been set. Certain styles worked in different phases of MMA: for takedowns wrestling and judo, for submission grappling jiu jitsu and catch wrestling, and for striking it was boxing, kickboxing or Muay Thai.
Other styles -- TKD, Karate, Kung Fu -- didn't work, we "knew" this.
The rise of Lyoto Machida and his strong case for the effectiveness of Shotokan Karate techniques in MMA (as part of a well-rounded fighter's arsenal, etc etc) has turned that conventional wisdom on its head.
Machida showed in his win over Thiago Silva that he can handle a graduate of the Chute Boxe academy, now we'll get to see if he can handle the man many believe is the best to ever come out of Chute Boxe in Shogun Rua.
-- image via Sherdog.com
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I think you should extrapolate:
The rise of Lyoto Machida and his strong case for the effectiveness of Shotokan Karate techniques in MMA (as part of a well-rounded fighter’s arsenal, etc etc) has turned that conventional wisdom on its head.
And break it down into a more complex discussion of how exactly Machida’s well rounded arsenal becomes even greater with the addition of his particular style of karate, and how this will match up against Shoguns more traditional Muay Thai background.
And then have a poll where all 3 options are “This was a great article.”
Yeah but there is nothing about his other skill sets, which is what I meant.
He has a great martial arts background and I think it is how all of his arts combine that really make him truly great, with his karate probably playing the most dominant role. But I believe he has an extensive sumo background as well as BJJ and maybe other things that I do not know.
I wonder how Machida handles aggresive fighters? Let's ask Thiago Silva...
I’m a huge Shogun fan, but Machida is just too damn good. Unless Shogun can land a leaping overhand like he did on Chuck, he’s probably going to lose. Machida is too damn cerebral. As much as I wanted Rua to rule the LHWs, I look forward to the technical brilliance of the Machida Era.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 1, 2009 5:25 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I totally disagree. Shogun feinted and swarmed that whole fight. Coming forward, choosing openings with lots of head movement. His KO was the first, last and only strike—no exchange or first strike thrown from Chuck.
by judonerd on Sep 1, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is going to be the greatest Light Heavyweight fight in the last half-decade, at the very least.
http://twitter.com/FlyByKnite
This.
It will probably be a battle. I give it to the guy with better punches and BJJ. I’m definitely a Machida fan, but you won’t see me writing off Shogun as just one more aggressive fighter. Rashad isn’t 25% of the fighter Mauricio is, so it will be interesting to see Machida take another step up in competition.
Last time I remember being this excited for a LHW fight I think was Chuck/Rampage 2, because the first one was such a grueling beating, never really saw Chuck look that bad, and thought the second time would be more of an even paced war.
I hope Shogun looks his best so that people can really see how great Machida is.
I love to watch Machida, it’s a lot like watching Jordan play in his prime. He is so talented and in my opinion a little underrated. I will never forget watching him utterly dismantle Rashad.
I really like this matchup only because I see Shogun being able to land a few shots on him, I just don’t think it’ll be enough to KO or take a decision.
by Screwface on Sep 1, 2009 5:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Machida’s power, to me, is in the way he balances his mastery of the different disciplines. He shines the most when he dives into his karate, but doesn’t use it as a crutch the way many fighters use their primary disciplines (particularly Muay Thai fighters and wrestlers).
Guys like Tito and hughes and Wandy will die trying to impose their discipline on their opponent, where it seems like Machida is okay relying on his BJJ, clinch and wrestling, and not even using his karate much.
I can’t wait for this. I always got especially excited when Shogun was about to fight. I now have that same feeling whenever Lyoto fights so the fact that I get to see the two of them go is a wonderful privilege. I’d be crazy not to pull for Lyoto. Feels like a sure thing.
are you referring to
Ruas Vale Tudo? Which is what Marco Ruas called his style?
I didn’t bring it up because it was just Muay Thai + Luta Livre (essentially no gi grappling based on catch wrestling + judo).
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This fight would be even cooler if they made them fight in suits like the one Machida wore today.
Sergio Non,
MMA writer, USA TODAY
http://mma.usatoday.com
I still have questions about Rua’s gas tank – I don’t think we can say the Chuck fight proved anything on that front. He definitely looked a lot sharper and in better shape.
And his TD’s – I’m not sure if he’s strong enough there to make Machida really sweat…a big part of his game has been that while he’s a hyper aggressive fighter, he’s not a wild, charging forward fighter (like Thiago) he smothers opponents and overwhelms them standing and in the clinch, with constant takedowns, on the ground, in scrambles, etc.
I really don’t think he can impose that style on a guy like Machida who’s so solid defensively.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
I think shogun iin true form is a tougher fight for Machida than Rampage.
If shogun can use his speed and striking to take Machida down that will be interesting. I think that’s the key. Put Machida on his back.
Machida relies on distance and timing – Can shogun vary this up enough to exploit the small windows of opportunity?
Will we see more karate implemented in MMA ? or is Lyoto just so good at what he does most will not be able to compare
there are lots of people who apply karate to MMA
GSP, Chuck Liddell, lots of K-1 fighters. It’s Shotokan where Machida alone has applied it successfully.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I think its the latter… Machida Karate sounds great – but Gracie JJ was being implemented successfully by non athletes like Royce. and the success of the art has been duplicated. While royce was kicking ass in the states his brother was kicking ass overseas and other places and people continue to use it. In fact if you dont have this training you wont last in MMA.
WIll Machida Karate have that same affect?
So far I see Machida only having success with Machida Karate. Who knows maybe more will be produced. I see Anderson trying to incorporate some of it – like perfecting distance but I dont know if thats Machida Karate.
From what I see Lyoto maintains near perfect distance and has great timing… combine that with his striking and grappling skils and its almost impossible to beat him.
The only times when he’s open is when he gets aggressive. Rashad hit him when he ran in with that cheesy karate one two. Tito got him when Lyoto jumped on him to try and finish.
Yeah, definitely too soon to say what effects Machida Karate has on MMA. Machida may be a once in a lifetime kind of fighter that just has it all, on top of Machida Karate. Unless we see more fighters coming through incorporating that specific style, I don’t know how it could compare to the rise of BJJ in MMA. Realistically, it would have to take more than someone learning a few moves from Machida Karate and incorporating it into their arsenal. You’d have to see fighters with a predominantly Machida Karate background in order for it to achieve the success Gracie JJ has had.
I love me some Sexyama!
Machida has a brother who is also an expert in Machida Karate… I have a feeling he would get his ass kicked in MMA.
That was the difference with Gracie JJ. Every single one of them including their cats went out and started kicking everyone’s ass in competitions.
You are correct. The karate that Machida does, which is really just JKA shotokan karate, will never have the effect the Gracie JJ has had because it takes a good eight years to get proficient at it. What people may see, however, is that TMAs is great to start when you are young because of its emphasis on technique. Machida, GSP, Lidell, A. Silva all started in TMA. When I say TMA I do not mean the strip mall buy a belt McDojos — but good solid traditional karate. That, I think, will be the lasting effect of what Machida is doing with karate in MMA. No 19 year old is going to spend 8 years learning karate if he wants to compete in MMA. The reason it takes so long to learn that type of karate is simply because it takes a long time to learn to fight at that distance. Standup is about technique, timing and distance. These are strongly emphasized in Machida’s karate. JMHO
by artelussonnier on Sep 2, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Also to note: Shogun has never been KO’d or TKO’d.
His only losses came from freak injury or Submission. Unless Shogun Gasses I dont see Machida tapping him.
For old school fans this has a disorienting back to the future quality. When MMA first burst upon the scene in the US and Japan in the early 1990s it was seen as first and foremost a test of styles.
This is why I am so excited about this fight, besides seeing Machida back in action. The Karate vs Muay Thai battle is a great angle to sell the fight from. With Shogun’s aggressive style and Machida’s, well… Machida-ness, we have the potential for a really amazing fight. I’m expecting Shogun to come in all guns blazing and Machida to just be his awesome self. Can’t wait!
I love me some Sexyama!
Did Bloody Elbow have anyone at the presser?
MMA Weekly got credentialed and so did a few other websites and papers I’d never heard of. The questions they asked were awful.
They said they would be doing another conference before the fight (this time with Dana White who couldn’t make it at the last minute due to “transportation issues” (aka negotiating some kind of deal)) and it would be pretty cool to have some BE representation at that one.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
Anyone care to mention other fighters with interesting fight stances for fun? i only bring this up because lyotos karate stance makes him so unique to watch
Keith’s = failure.
The only unique stance I’ve seen be really effective in any combat sport, besides Machida’s, is Pretty Boy Floyd’s…
by Screwface on Sep 1, 2009 7:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Genki Sudo
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 1, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Kalib Starnes
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 2, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he stole that from Usain Bolt
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Wow, the hyperbole is strong with this one
Seriously? MMA has EXACTLY ONE good Karate fighter and now:
“The rise of Lyoto Machida and his strong case for the effectiveness of Shotokan Karate techniques in MMA (as part of a well-rounded fighter’s arsenal, etc etc) has turned that conventional wisdom on its head.”
What? The things that work for Shogun do not work for anyone else. It’s like arguing that the skyhook is the greatest shot in basketball because it worked so well for Kareem. It sure did work, but that was more about Kareem than it was the shot itself.
This kind of talk is one step from believing that GSP’s nipple tweak is the key to victory. How’d that work out for Jardine last weekend?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Don't underestimate the nipple tweak!
GSP rubs his nipples all over his opponents. Jardine didn’t get a chance to put his nipples on Silva to utilise their magic.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 2, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
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