The UFC Heavyweight Division Is the One to Watch
by Kid Nate on Sep 1, 2009 2:10 PM EDT
in MMA News
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Jake Rossen points out the obvious:
Thirty-two and with only five professional fights, Lesnar is already the UFC’s biggest star. That he also happens to own their version of the Toughest Man in the West branding is setting that division on a path similar to boxing’s in the 20th century.
No confusion, preamble or qualifiers: If you have the UFC’s heavyweight belt, you are not one to be messed with.
This cache is attributable partly to Lesnar’s athletic pedigree -- unlike sea monsters of the past, he has a legitimate combat sports education in collegiate wrestling -- and the growing pool of talent prepared to challenge him. Lesnar’s belt isn’t made of paper: If he’s still champion a year from now, it will have been earned.
This was not always the case. In 2005, the UFC promoted a bout between then-current champion Andrei Arlovski and Paul Buentello, possibly the weakest title main event in the company’s history. (Buentello was knocked out in 15 seconds.) Most of the dangerous big men were earning tax-free dollars in Japan’s Pride promotion: An ocean’s distance and a stateside disrespect for MMA kept that championship off radar.
But now with a credible and popular champion in Brock Lesnar and compelling contenders in Shane Carwin and Cain Velasquez, the UFC is clearly the big leagues. As Rossen pointed out, former PRIDE stalwarts Antonio Rodridgo Nogueira and Mirko Cro Cop Filipovic are coming off of wins and add credibility to the division.
Last but not least there is a new wave of young talent, like Todd Duffee:
Though the American Top Team product did not earn "Knockout of the Night" honors -- they went to middleweight contender Nate Marquardt -- he remains one of MMA's most exciting young talents. He has a plethora of natural tools at his disposal, which, when coupled with some experience, could pose a serious threat to the UFC's heavyweight division. In his last outing before entering the UFC, he dominated Pride Fighting Championships and UFC veteran Assuerio Silva at Jungle Fight 11 en route to a second-round stoppage victory. At 6-foot-3, 260 pounds and sporting a physique that would make Charles Atlas blush, no one doubts the 23-year-old's potential. The real question surrounding Duffee's career is simple: with only five fights under his belt, has he proven himself ready for prime time?
...When asked at the post-fight press conference what his plans were for the young lion from ATT, (Dana) White did not dance around the question.
"[Duffee] came up to me in the back and said, ‘I want to fight again. I want to fight soon.' I know I have managers and everything else [to deal with before making a fight], but I want to get him in there as soon as possible," White said. "I want to fast-track him. I want him to fight good guys right now. This kid is fired up, and I like that."
And that's not even mentioning the sixteen big hosses that will be featured on The Ultimate Fighter's tenth season. Any reality show field that includes Roy Nelson, a one-time USAT/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings top 15 heavyweight will be a serious gauntlet for new talent. We'll be doing more previews as we get closer to showtime, but I'm expecting big things from the cast. It could be the biggest talent infusion in a UFC division via TUF since season five doubled the depth of the 155lb class.
But you say, what about Fedor Emeliananko, the no-doubt consensus #1 in the world? Well, Rossen comments on that as well:
A small dose of that might be a good thing. Lesnar is the UFC’s absolute champion; Emelianenko is the stray who puts Lesnar’s dominance in some doubt. That’s watercooler talk that keeps energy and enthusiasm churning: The occasional hypothetical fight is fuel for the fire. (Ten or 20 of them, as in boxing, is just diffusing.)
Ultimately, one of two things will occur: Either Emelianenko will burn through Strikeforce’s opposition and sign with the UFC simply because he lacks any other human worth beating up, or someone -- possibly Brett Rogers, possibly Alistair Overeem, possibly someone we’ve not yet heard of -- will pull a Balboa and KO the invincible man.
There is also bad news for Strikeforce fans eager to see Alistair Overeem in the cage defending his title against Fedor:
K-1 announced Tuesday that Overeem is taking on Peter Aerts on the September 26 Final 16 card. He's also expected to fight in Amsterdam in October, and if he beats Aerts he'll return to K-1 in December for the Grand Prix Final 2009. That's an awfully full dance card for any fighter, especially one who has already postponed two fights because of a hand injury, and it makes it a near certaintythat he won't be fighting for Strikeforce until 2010.
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I was at UFC 55…. Not only was it a marginal event at best, the main event was nothing short of disappointing. Technically, UFC 53 was worse (Arlovski vs. Eilers), but in the UFC’s defence, Eilers was a replacement.
As for the UFC’s Heavyweight Division…. It really is good now. And not only does it stand on it’s own two feet as a credible division, but the other MMA organizations completely lack credible MMA divisions. DREAM & Sengoku combined have Antonio Silva, Josh Barnett, Satoshi Ishii, & Sergei Khariarnov, Alistair Overeem. Overeem barely competes in MMA anymore…. And Ishii is too new to be fighting Silva or Barnett. Basically, they don’t have much at all. Strikeforce has 4 legit fighters, but Werdum poses no threat to Fedor, and is Overeem even signed to Strikeforce? Lastly are the free agents. There really aren’t that many now. Arlovski & Sylvia’s stock have plummeted. Little Fedor has Hep C. Monson is solid but nothing special.
In the past, a fighter like Jeff Monson got a title shot beating basically nobody worthy. Joe Silva was required to participate in their sort of machmaking due to a lack of depth. Now, the division has tiers, just like the rest of their divisions. They have the top tier (Lesnar, Couture, Mir, & Nogueira), the contenders (Cain, Carwin, etc….), and the gatekeepers (Kongo & Herring).
I don’t think the Heavyweight Division will ever have a lot of depth. It’s just not normal to see inshape athletes who walk around at 230 lbs +. And the majority of those guys are in the NFL or NBA. Still, I think the division is in the BEST shape I have seen it since Pride ruled the division.
And for a guy named Fedor Emelianenko…. For him to not be in this division really hurts his credibility as a fighter. Carwin or Lesnar will lose. UFC Heavyweight’s will continue to pick each other off. Many fans will say: “Well, Fedor is still winning, and Lesnar or Carwin just lost, so that’s a pointless fight now”. They kind of miss the entire point. Fedor needs to be WITHIN that division….. Even if those guys lose, they are still fighting other top tier guys. Being outside the UFC Heavyweight Division now really means being obscelete in more ways then one.
As for Alistair Overeem….
1. He doesn’t deserve the Top 10 ranking that anybody has given him. His biggest win is against Paul Buentello and that was almost 2 years ago.
2. It is painfully obvious that he doesn’t want to fight top level MMA competition on a consistent basis. That is perfectly fine. If he wants to concentrate primarily on K-1 and do some MMA once in a while, i say more power to him for making a living at what he enjoys best. What that does mean is that he shouldn’t really be in the discussion of top MMA fighters until he devotes himself full time again.
3. It seems like his hand healed very quickly. Very odd…………….
4. Does Strikeforce even have him under contract? Has they yet to be confirmed?
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i like it
although the camping kettle clearly isnt… that pot is a freakin muckraker, or is colorblind
by Austin Martin on Sep 1, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
And about Overeem,
Since 2000, has only lost to the best fighters in the world as a LHW: Shogun, Chuck, Lil Nog, Arona, and some really good HW’s in Werdum and a prime Kharitonov.
As a HW, 5-1 since 2007, not including this incredible win over Badr Hari. In this span, he toyed with Mirko, Buentello, Lee, Goodrige, and Hunt. Most impressive is that he has finished two of his last few fights in submissions while beating one of K-1’s best fighters in standup. He has improved his game and has one of the best skill sets out of any HW. His only problems have ever been his chin and gas tank.
K-1 fights have basically no relevence to MMA. Two different sports. You sound like Sherdog.com’s Rankings that cited his K-1 performance while ranking him in the Top 10. It is comical at best.
5-1? Let’s break that down….. So sticking to his MMA career…. He was a .500 fighter in Pride who constantly lost to the best guys. At Heavyweight, he looks extremely big and has gained a large amount of muscle in a short period of time. His biggest win is against Paul Buentello since moving up to Heavyweight. The Lee & Goodrige fights were basically pointless. Hunt hasn’t been a factor at Heavyweight in more then a few years. The Mirko fight ended on a ball shot…. I love it how people use that fight as a way of trying to win their case for Alistair Overeem suddenly being this highly skilled Top 10 MMA Heavyweight.
The guy obviously lied to Strikeforce about his hand, as the K-1 event is less then 45 days after the Strikeforce card was scheduled.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think overeem is great and all, and is probably the biggest threat to fedor outside of the UFC,
I just don’t like how he hasn’t even defended the belt since he won it years ago.. and that he’s rising up the rankings based on kickboxing matches..
The guy’s last MMA fight was against grandpa gary goodridge on 2008, yet his rankings still kept rising this year.. and people who have been ranking him are even denying that it isn’t because of kickboxing fights.. They should at least be honest about it.
On his overall MMA game though, i think it’s pretty good.. I think he can own rogers easily, and will be a pretty decent test/barometer for Fedor.
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 1, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don’t like how he hasn’t even defended the belt since he won it years ago.. and that he’s rising up the rankings based on kickboxing matches..
I am not sure why people say this. The reason why he never defended it was because SF did not have any HW fights and basically shied away from the HW class. Starting this year is when they started to focus on the HW class again.
my point really was about the rankings..
this year, he has been constantly rising up the HW ladder without even fighting.. he hasn’t fought MMA in 2009 and the last person he beat was 40+ years old.
I like the guy and i think he’s really talented, but i sure as hell don’t think he deserves to rise up the HW rankings.
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 2, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
This is why the MMA media needs to be “purged”…. or at least let the people who know the fight business do the rankings. There are people for editorials, for news, and for rankings. Some are qualified to do 2 things, some even 3 things and others only one.
This needs to be identified and properly delegated.
Luke is right that “new media” is the present and future… but the INPUT needs to be refined to get better output.
More on Alistair Overeem
1. He’s ducking top fighters or
2. He’s holding out from fighting Fedor for a larger payday. Just as Randy and Lesnar were able to get large, new contracts based on the threat of eventually leaving to fight Fedor, Overeem has a lot more value than his name recognition and record warrant based on the fact he is the only fitting challenger to Fedor outside the UFC.
No, its called a plan.
Strikeforce is saving an Overeem vs Fedor fight for either CBS or PPV. Overeem has always been scheduled to participate in teh K-1 WGP, so everything is going according to SF and FEG’s scheduling.
Let’s talk about the Elephant in the room with Alistair. Is he not fighting in the US because he doesn’t want to take a piss test before the fight?
That can only be an assumption… There are many more.
1. his contract with strikeforce sucks relative to his current perceived value.
2. If he loses now he can never cash in on this “perceived” value.
3. So far this new “perceived” value has never been demonstrated in a drug tested fight.
The obvious thing is he doesnt want to fight in Strikeforce… the reason is anyones guess.
Does he have a fight left on his Strikeforce contract?
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
he still has at least one fight on his contract.
If I had to guess… he’s going to milk his K-1 stint for as long as it lasts. I dont think he’ll fight mma again until the K-1 money runs out. Could be a year or could be a few years.
Which could put Strikeforce in a huge pickle if Rogers & Werdum loses, and then Overeem is supposed to be for the title…..
Except no title, no Overeem, and no real contender for Fedor. Makes Coker look weak.
If I was Overeem, I would be milking K-1 money as well. They have more of it, and he can have more success at it then being KO’d by Fedor. Not to mention he can still lose at K-1 and then falls back on the “He’s only a MMA fighter” speak….
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
This is starting to get ridiculous…
I say strip Overeem already and make Fedor vs. Brett for the HW title.
watchkalibrun.com
by Nick Becker on Sep 1, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Overeem is no dummy.
He knows that if he can milk the K-1 thing long enough, he can basically name his price after Fedor dispatches Rogers & Werdum. He will be in an incredibly strong bargaining position.
Why is Strikeforce not setting up future viable opponents.
There’s Satoshi Ishii, Bobby Lashley, Roger Gracie, and maybe even Ray Sefo to build up into recognizable competitors. Or what ever happened to the rumored Sengoku-Dream HW tourney. If Strikeforce, through co-promotion, can broadcast this on Showtime you could easily build the winner as the next challenger to Fedor. (And if it’s Barnett, man you hit the jackpot)
MMASuPreMaCy, what’s the deal?
Do you actually think any of those will be viable opponents for Fedor?
This is boxing 101 Vadim is manipulating you with.
I am saying from Strikeforce’s point of view they could be viable opponents. Without a plan b fighters like Overeem have got you over a barrel. Are they up to the challenge, no, but only a few years ago the UFC was having Paul Buentello and Justin Eillers fight Arlovski for the title because no one else was available.
And, yes, if Josh Barnett won the Sengoku-Dream HW tourney he would be a viable opponent for Fedor. Maybe even more so now, considering how reviled he’s become.
because as i recall, strikeforce only has a 1 year, 3 fight deal with Fedor..
they wouldn’t need to build them up yet as they have Rogers, Werdum and Overeem already..
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 2, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
But the “PLAN” as you put it was for him to fight already in the states… so what exactly are you talking about regarding this “PLAN”.
lol, ok… she changes what she “means” alot.
by mmalogic on Sep 1, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Overeem is far from the top ten, and I really can’t believe he’s even ranked in some rankings including the IWMMAR that I’m a part of. It amazes me that he moved from 7 to 6 on that list by doing NOTHING.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you stalling? He asked a very easy question that you should be able to answer….
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is her standard operating procedure… say something that makes no sense and then once someone points it out claim she meant something else.
by mmalogic on Sep 1, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
K-1 has no relevence in a MMA discussion.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, you have one guy who now has a 1-2 record, 1 K1 fight, 1 sub over a k-1 guy with a losing mma record, and a pic from a fight that was a no contest. You’ve certainly proven your point.
WAIT A MINUTE!!! I’ve got it!!!
Drew McFedries has DEVASTATING FINISHES!!!
Time to rank him in the Top 10 now too.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah and he actually does have devastating finishes…
This clown shows one finish of a japanese can they found off the street.
That arm triangle against Kampmann was pretty devastating...
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
If you are going to troll, at least do a good job at it.
Beating up a now Middleweight?
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Somebody now post gifs of real devastating finshes…
You know like the ones done to overeem.
Shogun – twice.
Chuck
Kharitonov
etc…
On his jock? Come the fuck on, if they wanted him that bad for that long he would probably be there by now, the only fighter who they actually want that has never signed is Fedro.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
There’s a difference between wanting and being on someones jock. They wouldn’t offer Gomi or Overeem a contract anywhere near what they offered Fedro.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 1, 2009 6:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the Mark Hunt myth
for one
of course he had help from a couple of middleweights
I think next he’ll go on mythbusters and prove a thing or two about pop rocks
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes
I enjoyed Rossen’s article today and agree with the heavy majority of what he wrote. He mentions, though, that boxing’s heavyweight division doesn’t really have an undisputed champion. I would argue that, right now, they have more of one than MMA. In your opinion who, besides W. Klitschko’s brother, has a legitimate claim to having earned the title of boxing’s best heavyweight? MMA proponents go back and forth with very valid arguments for both Emelianenko and Lesnar. Overall, though, I very much agree with the article and there’s no doubt in my mind that MMA’s best heavyweight will have a lot more clout going forward. It’s the first time that I’ve been very interested in that weight class in awhile.
Overeem fighting in K-1 is just another example of open contracts with promotions getting in the way of seeing fights that need to be seen. When you have fighters that can move from one promotion to another, that can fight in one sport and then another, that’s great for the fighter, and it definitely opens up good cross-promotion fights that people want to see, but the opposite is true. As we can see, it can tie up a title for a long time with nobody defending.
I mean, Overeem hurts his hand, so he can’t defend his MMA title, but he can later fight in a K-1 match? That’s just brutal for Strikeforce. They may have to tighten up some contracts in the future if they ever want to see their belts defended. Just look at Cung Le who apparently is more interested in being a d-list movie star than an MMA star. Looks like there will be more interrim title belts given out.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Sep 1, 2009 2:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Word to this
Exclusive contracts make more and more sense when you see instances like this.
I finish beers at 1:55.
I hear steroids can be used to accelerate healing
just sayin
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes
Yeah everyone thought Fedor was going to fight in the UFC after the pride purchase because their would be nobody else to fight…
Then everyone thought Fedor has to fight in the UFC after Affliction folded because there’s even less for him to fight now than before…
Fedor, or his management or whoever do not want to fight in the UFC. They want to choose his opponents and protect his record. This is boxing 101.
Everyone wants co-promotion yet those same people bitch about the malignaggi decision and boxings corrupt judging. WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS WITH CO-PROMOTION? Invariably there are 2 vested interests and guess what? the interest that has more pull gets their way and the sport turns into shit.
in a co-promotion atmosphere every promoter protects their fighter, pads their record and never ever fight the fights their supposed to from a competitive stand point.
Do you think Lesnar would fight Carwin? HELL FUCKING NO.
He would fight couture again… It wouldnt matter if Randy just lost.
Then Lesnar would fight Tito. Then Lesnar would fight Franklin
Does this sound familiar? Fedor fighting lindland. Fedor fighting Zulu. Fedors playing footsie with Gegard… Talk of Fedor fighting Tito… etc…
Rashad would have never fought Machida. He would have fought Chuck again. And then he would have fought Randy. He wouldnt even fight Rampage because Black doesn’t sell yet… so chuck may not have even fought Rashad to begin with.
Franklin would have never fought Anderson. Franklin would have fought Chris Leben.
Randy would have never fought Big Nog… he would have fought Monson.
First the Zuffa haters were complaining about “exclusive” contracts… Overeem is the classic example why you have exclusive contracts. Without exclusive contracts nobody would invest in the sport.
Then the Zuffa haters were complaining about pay in a sport tin its infancy o an organization that pays the most and continues to increase… The ignorant fail to understand that large sums of money need to be invested in the next 10 years to ensure you still have MMA and at the same or better quality.
Since pay doesn’t carry traction anymore the new “buzz” word is “co-promotion”. These idiots have no idea what that would do to the sport. I gave you just a tiny glimpse above.
Zuffa is doing everyone a favor and some don’t even realize it yet. Its like your mom shoving vegetables down your mouth. You just dont know how good it is for you until later.
by mmalogic on Sep 1, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions 13 recs
Back in the 1990’s, I was like some of the fans now. Clamouring for the UFC and Pride to work together, yada, yada, yada. I have seen so many new companies promise the world and fall flat on their faces. I have seen fighters out of work for 6+ months while organizations try to figure out how to work through the contracts have the company that just went under.
I have also seen Liddell/Wanderlei, Couture/Nogueira, & a few other big fights happen 5 years after they should have.
No thanks. While the UFC’s system isn’t perfect, it is 100 times better then the alternative. Over the last year, a lot of the newer fans are finally starting to realize this. They have been around through more then 1 MMA business cycle. Fans like me have been around more then 3. Once you experience it, things like “co-promotion” sound less and less realistic and more of just an annoyance.
Then again, there are always a few like MMA Supremacy… Who don’t realize that if their dreams of a competitor to the UFC actually came true, it would hurt the sport forever.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Pride and UFC copromoting would have been fantastic
too bad those sneaky bastards at pride screwed the UFC on that one.
Fool me once shame on me. Fool me twice, uh…. um… fool me can’ tget fooled again.
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes
Rec'd like H-E-double hockey sticks!
Particularly this point:
The ignorant fail to understand that large sums of money need to be invested in the next 10 years to ensure you still have MMA and at the same or better quality.
A smart business man knows how important it is to maintain capital within the company to ensure not only future growth, but possible downturn. Yes, the UFC is growing and seems recession proof, but that’s not guaranteed. Stupid business models have brought companies to their knees in the past year during this recessession, not just in MMA.
Fedor, or his management or whoever do not want to fight in the UFC. They want to choose his opponents and protect his record. This is boxing 101.
This is why I am so over Fedor. Fuck him. All those fighters saying he’s ducking competition are right. Do I want to see him fight Brock? Definitely. But he’s got no intention to fight in the UFC, so forget him.
First the Zuffa haters were complaining about "exclusive" contracts… Overeem is the classic example why you have exclusive contracts. Without exclusive contracts nobody would invest in the sport.
Totally agree. See my post from above regarding the stupidity of the Overeem and Cung Le situations.
I love me some Sexyama!
Can we get rid of the “Fedor’s ducking the UFC” meme already. He wants to co-promote. He wants a big chuck of a million ppv buy card. Who’s to say that the UFC brass are the only ones to make the big bucks of this sport? From his perspective Dana and the Fertila’s are the late comers to the party. He was fighting before the even bought the UFC and was in big shows in Japan when they were trying to keep it afloat. Is he being unrealistic? I would say most definitely. But eventually it’ll either work for him, or it won’t and he’ll fade away. You can hope he fails because you don’t want the sport to degenerate into boxing, but let’s not get mad because he wants as big of cut of the pie as possible.
How can you talk about Dana and the Fertita’s being late to the party and Fedor wanting his piece of the pie.
He wants a piece of the pie that Dana and the Fertita’s baked. he is the one that was late to the party, because he’s been off doing his own thing in japan and for 100k ppv buys with affliction (or less for bodog) while Dana and Zuffa have been swimming in money.
by Phildo on Sep 1, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m saying from his perspective they’re late to the party. And yes he wants a piece of the pie they made in the US, but again, from his perspective he thinks he deserves it because he’s doing the actual fighting. He’s looking at boxers making $20 or $30 million on 1-2 mil ppv buys and sees that he has a chance at that too. Randy was thinking the same thing last year but gave up when he saw that either it wouldn’t work or it wasn’t worth the effort. Fedor is still trying. Maybe he’s delusional, and to tell you the truth I am not hoping he succeeds in self-promotion (but I am wishing the best for strikeforce), but I am not going to hold it against the guy for trying.
I think you over estimate Fedor’s ability to think.
His manager wants the basically complete access to his money. Co-promotion is a way to do this.
His manager wants a way to keep the gravey train going. It only continues if he doesn’t lose. Co-promotion and picking your opponents is a way to do this.
Fedor is either too stupid, too naive, or too scared to sign with the UFC. And when I say scared, I mean of Vadim, not the UFC Heavyweights.
Your point would make sense if Fedor’s name would be on either a UFC OR Strikeforce contract. But it isn’t. His name would be on a UFC contract. It isn’t on a Strikeforce contract.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Zuffa apparently offerred Fedor an insane contract but he turned it down. There’s definitely more to it, like the co-promotion angle, but I still think Fedor is ducking competition. Even if Zuffa doesn’t agree to co-promotion, what is the harm in fighing the UFC fighters and making 30 million or whatever the stupid number was? That would go a long ways in helping M-1 and their promotion. The risk, of course, is he loses and he loses all leverage. The only thing keeping Fedor in the number one spot right now is his record. Nobody outside of hardcores give a crap about Fedor. He’s got so much more to lose than your average fighter, so I think that’s why he’s avoiding the UFC. There’s also the fact that Dana was a dick to him and he just doesn’t like the guy. There’s certainly something rotten going on, and I really question whether Fedor is even in the driver seat anymore (or if he ever was).
I love me some Sexyama!
Listen, I don’t know if Fedor is being brainwashed by Vadim, but he says he’s not so I’ll take his word for it. And yes, the UFC offered him alot, but when you compare it to the amount boxers make, it’s peanuts. Like I said I believe Fedor and M1 might be delusional in the kind of draw they can make Fedor.
And as for ducking Fighters. Here is the list of fighters Fedor either fought or planned to fight in the last 15 months:
Tim Sylvia (at the time #5 in the world)
Randy Couture (at the time ranking UFC HW Champ)
Andrei Arlovski (at the time #2 in the World)
Josh Barnett (at the time #2 in the world)
Brett Rogers (currently ranked top 10 – although not sure it’s justified)
There was a story about how Monte Cox wanted to set up warm-up fight for Fedor before Tim and Fedor and his management told him they aren’t worried about losing. They would fight anyone.
it’s stupid to be looking at boxing money because no one in mma is making boxing money.
You also can’t use the money argument and then sign a contract that’s worth less money.
by Phildo on Sep 1, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s the point, he’s looking at boxing numbers, and that’s why I also say they may be delusional. But from him or his management point of view, I think they’re holding out for some big co-promotional fight. It’s probably a pipe dream and, as I said before, they’re also probably overestimating the potential drawing power they have in Fedor, but in their heads they see (or probably saw since Randy is definitely out of the picture) a future 1 million ppv where they get $20 million. You do two fights like that and nothing the UFC offers compares. Plus you add the future potential of getting cuts off of other fights that he and m1 co-promote and the numbers are out of this world.
My other point was, even though I disagree with this model, I can’t blame him for trying to do something that others have already done, but, as you have pointed out, only in boxing. And that’s what I think makes it so tempting for them, they can see it working in their sister sport, and it keeps them holding on to this dream.
They said that they wouldnt sign without copromotion, and the UFC couldnt copromote because M-1 is a shady org and a bunch of stuff related to the fertittas casinos.
Am i going nuts? i thuoght all of this info was dealt with a month ago
by Austin Martin on Sep 1, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The shadiness it part of it, but I don’t think that part is relevant.
What’s the point for M1 to copromote if they can get more money not copromoting?
Even if M1 wasn’t shady, it wouldn’t make sense for Zuffa to give away half the money from 1 card to them, so while their shadiness might be A reason for Zuffa saying no, it’s not THE reason.
An article came out before about rules and regulations of business contracts with companies that own gambling venues. If the UFC wanted to copromote, it would cause both parties to be investigated. Which means that something would probably be found about M-1, but ALSO could be found about Zuffa.
by Austin Martin on Sep 1, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC 30 was Feritta & White’s first UFC…. That was dated: 02/23/2001
Fedor Emelianenko was 4-1 as a professional by that time.
You need to check your facts before you bash others for their comments.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. He was already in the sport before they started. And within a year he was fighting in Pride who had been putting on big shows since the late 90’s, so from his outsiders view he doesn’t view the UFC as saviors of the sport. That is the parochial view.
And I don’t think I was bashing mmalogic, I merely wanted to express another view point. If he believes I was, I apologize.
so you say money is his motivation… when the entire 3 fight strikeforce contract wont net as much as his first fight in the UFC…. right.
No they want to be able to choose his opponents and control his purse… they are willing to take less money now so they can control it and hope he will be a draw after 3 fights so then they can continue to choose his opponents, control the money and sell ppv’s.
Where the money goes, Who controls it, and at what risk are the determining factors.
I cant believe Fedor is a liar because so far I have never heard him lie or describe something that was off base… So I have to believe these guys are manipulating him because he called the contract offer “miserable”.
The same contract offer Tito is french kissing Dana white for… The same contract offer Randy signed gleefully, and the same contract offer Brock the biggest ppv star signed.
So either Fedor is a liar or he’s being grossly misled. I happen to think he will be seeing alot less money than what he’s actually earned by the time his career has ended.
If you’re his management and you have this one cash cow – your gonna do your best to control the cash and make sure the cow isnt in any danger of losing.
by mmalogic on Sep 1, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
It’s the ducking part that gets to me. If at the beginning of 2008 someone told you that Fedor was planning to fight Tim Sylvia, Randy Couture, Andrei Arlovski, Josh Barnett, and Brett Rogers (I know for the last one you would be saying “who?”) you would probably thinking, wow, what a murderer’s row. Now, I know a couple of these fights fell through, and a couple of the fighters haven’t looked the same afterwards, but the intent still matters. He had no problem fighting any of these guys, and I see little to suggest anything has changed.
this is Boxing 101… not a murderers row. If I can choose my fights I can decide not to fight the guys who are the worst matchups for me and still look like Im fighting.
Lets see who he has fought:
Matt Lindland
Hong Man Choi
Mark Hunt
Tim Sylvia (after he was handled by Randy and beat by nog)
exhibition with aoki
Arlovski ( a guy who had 2 shots at the UFC title but couldnt pull it off when the division was at its weakest)
Exhibition against Mousasi.
The worst matchup for Fedor is an excellent wrestler who has very good submission defense.
Is it a coincidence that his next 3 projected matchups do not fit this mold? They are all one dimensional.
Is it a coincidence that UFC specializes in this type of animal.
Fedor has almost zero chance in losing with Strikeforce… Fedor doesnt have the same probability working his way through the UFC gauntlet.
Even GSP loses in the UFC.
At the end maybe Fedor is fooling us all and just wants to get used to the cage while fulfilling his M-1 contract so he can ditch them and keep all the money he will get in the UFC.
I have no idea.
And in the UFC, it is CONSTANT. If they run out of Heavyweights, they will give him Machida or Silva. The way Fedor has been, he likes to have 1 or 2 tough fights then a few easier fights. That would not work in the UFC. And over the period of a few fights, that can take it’s toll….
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s hard to defend his record from Dec 2005 through Dec 2007. But since then he hasn’t backed down from an opponent. He was ready to fight Randy and Barnett, both possessing the skills you describe.
“He was ready to fight Randy and Barnett”.
Are you saying he wouldn’t have fought Randy if he got out of his UFC contract? Or that he Fedor or M1 had anything o do with Barnett failing his drug test?
And while I’ll agree with that Barnett’s wrestling, outside of his catch wrestling submission skills, is overrated, you then will have to agree that many people have been claiming for years that Barnett was the man with the skills to beat Fedor.
I’ve worked in an industry that is heavily dependent on agents working on behalf of their clients. However, I can’t think of one company that we did not meet with face to face once a strong offer was presented. Even if we didn’t think a deal could be struck, you still have a face to face meeting because it is suprising what can be accomplished with everybody in the same room. Emails, phone calls, and second hand word of mouth information never does any situation justice. And that is with honest, good people doing the deal.
The fact that Fedor Emelianenko has never met with Dana White or Lorenzo Fertitta is extremely alarming. It sends a huge red flag that Vadim is doing something he isn’t supposed to, or that Fedor doesn’t know about. Even if Fedor disagrees with everything Dana White had to say, a good agent would always set up that face to face meeting, especially when it is such a big money offer.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The other red flag is how Strikeforce & Showtime handled the situation. Some people will take this as a UFC vs. Strikeforce post, but it isn’t. No matter what industry you are in, people follow the leader. What I mean by that is….. If the leader in the industry does something, everybody else takes notices.
The fact that Strikeforce saw those red flags between the UFC and Fedor…. Not to mention all of Fedor’s past MMA organizations experience…. And they signed a deal so quickly is a sure fire sign they didn’t properly think though the entire situation.
Scott Coker, in the long term, might have still made the best deal possible for Strikeforce. but when the UFC has a problem signing Fedor, a good businessman would take a step back, analize why it went wrong, and then do double or triple checking of the deal and all possible angles before signing it.
With the speed in which Coker signed Fedor, it is obvious he did not do that.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s all showtime… Coker basically gave away his business when he signed with showtime.
Showtime, Mark Cuba, Vadim, all want to turn this thing into boxing. break everything up into little promotions have the producers and maybe some sanctioning bodies.
Showtime and HD net can then become players as the producer and guys like vadim can become the real don king. Where not only can you steal money from your fighters but actually have fans pay you to do that because the “afflictions” of the world are gone now.
Tito is the most selfish fuck around..if he thought he could make a nickel more with this model he would not have signed with Zuffa. IF he thought he could make 80 cents on the dollar of what Zuffa was offereing he would NOT HAVE SIGNED WITH ZUFFA!
If Couture thought he could make money pursuing the Fedor fight with this new "boxing"model" he wouldnt have signed.
This is all showtime throwing out projections from their Mike Tyson days and Vadim eating it up… There’s a reason why showtime isn’t HBO.
Imagine if GSP skipping guys in the top 5 and fighting the #8 welterweight, #10 and #12.
This problem will be crushed at the source: showtime.
by mmalogic on Sep 1, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Makes sense. Only problem is that even at Showtime’s best, they don’t have enough revenues or eyeballs to make a serious run at it. And CBS is not a viable option only 4 times a year. Neither is having your fighters competing in various other organizations. And don’t forget Josh Gross into the conversation. He has been demanding this boxing model for years. Horrible idea….
And speaking of the Tyson/Showtime era…. that is the last time Showtime has had a PPV attraction. And he was fighting scrubs for years during that time.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
As for Mark Cuban, he basically has no impact on MMA now. HDNet has too few viewers. And to the casual fan, their telecasts come off 2nd rate.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Sep 1, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah thats why showtime is not HBO…
If showtime gets any real traction HBO will simply sign with Zuffa. But they wont get anywhere…
I mean there is nothing they can do without being checked.
Showtime is supposed to be a premium channel… they dont have premium mma content. With Zuffas new schedule they surely will not have premium mma content.
It will be like showing B rated movies… A premium channel is supposed to show content that is not available on Free or Basic TV. That’s its whole purpose.
Its one thing to have lower grade content than HBO… its entirely different if you’re a step below Spike or any other free content network…
When Dana says Zuffas gonna kick showtimes ass this is what he means. Would showtime produce content if a better version is on espn or another similar free network? No because ultimately it would hurt their brand. That’s exactly the opposite of what a premium network is supposed to do.
Showtime can have a show every month… there will be Live UFC content every week after that on most likely 3 different broadcast stations… what kind of momentum can they build? They are just feeding the beast.
They are converting their boxing/sports/movie fans into UFC fans.
“Showtime, Mark Cuba, Vadim, all want to turn this thing into boxing”
And why can’t that pertain to Fedor? Why can’t Fedor have bought into this too? Your argument was that Fedor (or his management) was ducking the UFC. And my reply is that I still don’t see him ducking anyone.
And, whatever your answer is, it won’t matter, because fairly or unfairly everything you say comes with the caveat that you are “shill” (I say that with no malice) for the UFC. So, maybe Vadim has Fedor blinded to reality, and maybe Showtime is destroying the sport, or maybe Dana White and the brothers are walking away with tens of millions on the sweat and labor of their fighters. I don’t know. You may, but unfortunately I will not be able to accept your answer at face value.
Hopefully, this doesn’t come across as rude, because I actually appreciate and enjoy most of your comments. It’s just that on this subject matter,I question your impartiality.
Fedor will fight who ever M1 tells him to fight.
Fedor will sign what ever M1 tells him to sign
Fedor will say any thing M1 allows him to say
That cluster fuck of a confrence call that M1/strikeforce had should be a sign just how shady this is. Vlad leaving the call when ever a tough question came up. Fedor said in his own words “if the deal was the one being spread around the internet we would have signed”. I mean come on Fedor is kept in the back room with the light off when contracts come out.
Yes. He was already in the sport before they started. And within a year he was fighting in Pride who had been putting on big shows since the late 90’s, so from his outsiders view he doesn’t view the UFC as saviors of the sport. That is the parochial view.
And I don’t think I was bashing mmalogic, I merely wanted to express another view point. If he believes I was, I apologize.
How about the HW Title fight in ufc 65
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