Questions Surround Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Following Impressive Performance at UFC 102
In the wake of Randy Couture's defeat at the hands of PRIDE legend Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira, there are a few topics of interest circulating among MMA fans as to what might happen next within the upper-echelon of the UFC's heavyweight division. Most notably, will the UFC remain steadfast on the idea of giving Cain Velasquez a shot at the winner between Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin? Did Nogueira's performance at UFC 102 help him raise his stock in potentially squeezing into title contention? Was Nogueira's performance an improvement over his performance against Mir because he was injury-free, or is Frank Mir simply that much improved?
To answer these questions, one would need to gauge how impressive Nogueira's performance was on Saturday night. After all, the UFC brass would still consider the younger, more explosive athletes in the division above an older fighter unless that older fighter happened to show spurts of his former self. The latter is what would describe Nogueira's performance against Randy Couture, and it was spectacular to watch for those of us who have seen the dominant Nogueira during his PRIDE reign.
What exactly was phenomenal about this bout? Most notably, Nogueira was much more nimble on his feet, and his boxing was as crisp as we've seen it in the cage. His length on the floor was used very effectively, and his Brazilian jiu-jitsu expertise worked to nullify anything Couture could muster on the floor while also putting himself into prime position to punish Couture. Of course, a dominating performance can also have a strange effect on fan opinions. Specifically, some fans have began to wonder whether it was Couture's age finally catching up with him.
I wouldn't cling to that reasoning. I would, however, believe that Nogueira was severely hindered by a staph infection and knee injury leading up to his bout with Frank Mir. While Mir has already stated that he's "disheartened" at Joe Rogan's comments during the UFC 102 main event regarding his bout with Nogueira and the injuries Nogueira sustained leading up to the fight, Rogan had a point and Mir needs to be reasonable. A lot of fans would rather argue that all fighters show up hurt to fights, but as evident in his performance against Couture vs. his performance against Mir -- there is a significant difference in the challenge that Nogueira's opponents actually face when he's healthy.
An injury-free Nogueira was the sole reason why he was so dominating in his victory, and it'd be a tough sell for anyone to try to convince me that it was because Frank Mir improved in his striking game substantially. While I believe Mir looked much better standing, it was evident that there were problems for Nogueira. No head movement, a stumble in his step, and an almost lethargic trance to his movements could only signify a tired Nogueira who didn't get the training he needed and likely had something significantly wrong. Nogueira should have pulled out of the fight, but the warrior inside him just wouldn't let fans down.
Now that Nogueira is back to getting the training he deserves and showing the fans a dominating performance against a very tough Randy Couture, what's next for him? Nogueira's future at the top really depends on how well he can maintain his current state of health. Barring staph infection, knee injuries, cuts, and any other injury, I think the UFC should definitely slot Nogueira into a title contention role following the Carwin vs. Lesnar fight. If Lesnar loses, push Nogueira into a title shot against Shane Carwin. If Lesnar wins, put Nogueira into the title fight immediately. This will allow Cain Velasquez to continue working to become a complete fighter, and it'll give him more time to build up the name that he could potentially become down the road for the UFC.
If Nogueira and Lesnar do meet in a championship title fight, can Nogueira actually contend with the much larger and stronger Lesnar? Nogueira contends that it'll likely need to be a war of attrition in which he sticks and moves to avoid Lesnar's power. He'll eventually tire out the behemoth on the feet, and in patented Nogueira form -- submit the giant in the late rounds. Seems like a lot of wishful thinking on the Brazilian's part, doesn't it?
While that gameplan could work, Nogueira seems to be forgetting one key element that Couture has publicly stated will always be a significant problem for his opponents, Lesnar's reach. If Nogueira intends to stand on the outside landing shots, he'll undoubtedly need to wade in Lesnar's reach. One blast from one of his massive meathooks could spell disaster, so the chances of defeating Lesnar standing become slim. Of course, Lesnar may simply overpower Nogueira on the ground and devastate him in quick fashion. We won't really know the huge strength difference until the fight happens, but one thing is for certain -- Nogueira will want to stay as far away from Lesnar as he can. Can he do it? Does the Brazilian submission master have one more David vs. Goliath match-up in him?
-- image via Sherdog.com
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Well put. I think Nogueira stands a better chance of beating Lesnar than Carwin does. Shane can give it out on the feet but the Gonzaga fight showed that he can’t take too many either. Nog has shown that he can moderately threaten his opponent with punches and Brock’s biggest strength somewhat plays into Nogueira’s. Not to say Lesnar couldn’t finish Rodrigo in the guard…
by Ahhhoki on Sep 1, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think in terms of well-roundedness, yes. Carwin really only presents a stand-up advantage with his power, but even that’s questionable if he can’t hit Lesnar, who will have lengthy reach. It’s an interesting fight that really can’t be answered without happening.
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by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
carwin
is the only chance of us seeing Lesnar’s chin truly tested, unless Todd Duffee starts working guys. Gonzaga hit Carwin with a SHOT though, and Gonzagas power is definately underestimated. It’ll be a tough battle but i think Lesnar is a better version of Carwin… although he trains at Jackson. I cannot pick a winner, and i won’t be mad whoever wins
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re saying Carwin poses more of a standing threat to Lesnar than Kongo or Mir? I think that’s vastly over-estimating Shane’s striking ability. His boxing is very sloppy – slightly better than Brett Rogers. He throws zero kicks (understandably), zero feints, and never anything more than a two-punch combination. If he beats Lesnar (which I hope he does) it will be because he got lucky.
by Ahhhoki on Sep 1, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the only way for carwin to win is by “luck”, but I understand where you’re coming from
by cagefightonacid on Sep 1, 2009 1:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe lucky isn’t the word. But trust me when I say that I hope Lesnar gets knocked out.
by Ahhhoki on Sep 1, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up quicker.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 1, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Carwin is the only UFC HW with power huh? OK sure.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 1, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to see Nogueira/Lesnar…just have to…
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by Kelvin Hunt on Sep 1, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope Rogan doesn’t make Mir feel “disheartened” when the motorcycle accident that killed some of his own performances gets brought up.
Mir shouldn’t knock anyone’s commentating – he shows a ridiculous level of favoritism when commentating fights.
by MMAEruption on Sep 1, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Mir
though he plays favorites, is a better commentator then Rogan. Rogan screams that a guy is done when he gets hit with a good punch or almost is being submitted. He constantly explains the same moves. I think i’ve heard him explain a kimura 1000 times. Mir is obviously more knowledgable.
Plus, Mike Goldberg is an effing moron. I cannot stand him, since he said anderson silva’s striking “precision is well, precise”
and pretty lowblow to use the accident against the guy.
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being more knowledgeable isn’t necessarily a good thing because Rogan is playing to casual MMA fans. Mir doesn’t exactly explain things in detail very well at all on the WEC broadcasts, and he’s sometimes completely lost. Rogan is phenomenal for the most part.
Mir also plays to his favortisms way more than Rogan. That last time I truly think Rogan was blinded was the Belcher vs. Akiyama decision, but that’s an opinion I suppose.
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by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rogan and Goldberg also benefit from the chemistry they have, which helps offset some of their shortcomings. They screw up but they’re funny and entertaining.
by MMAEruption on Sep 1, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rogan: “Who do you get to mimic this guy”
Goldberg: “Him”
A moment in which Goldberg was actually funny.
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by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i actually find goldberg very entertaining on Shaq Vs.. as well
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but you can tell all of that banter is scripted. It’s much easier for him on that show. The only time it’s remotely candid is during the actual events, and even then… they could tape it and script it later.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is it a low blow? Mir brings it up all the time as why his career fell off track. But nobody can bring up Nog’s injuries going into their fight? I give Mir credit, he won the fight, but come on.
by MMAEruption on Sep 1, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Rogan screams that a guy is done when he gets hit with a good punch or almost is being submitted"
maybe it’s just me, but it seems like mir does the same thing every time he commentates.
by woooburn on Sep 1, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mir screams “It’s OVER!” prematurely in nearly every single fight. I don’t see how Rogan is so terrible either.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this debate has been raged before
Lets just all agree Mauro Ranallo is an idiot and move on.
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
But he’s still a better commentator than either of the UFC men and definitely way more knowledgable.
by ludakrish on Sep 1, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my entire case
is based around the fact he once said kimbo was to MMA what Tiger woods was to golf.
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was promoting EliteXC, people need to understand that. He was hired by EliteXC.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i understand that. completely. It was on network TV and he had to say it. I dunno, just something about his voice makes me want to punch him in the face. Similar to the cage announcer for the WEC, whatever his name is.
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I’m not a fan of Mauro either, so I hear ya.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree to agree for reasons other than the original reasoning for posting, if that makes sense.
I know this website is west coast based so you guys don’t get the pleasure of watching Don Orsillo and Jerry Remy kill it for Red Sox games, but i wish those guys announced everything. I may make a fan post later about commentators. I also hate Joe Morgan and Dennis Eckersley. And now i’m just venting through an electronic medium.
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
West coast-based?
Most of us are from the Midwest or the East Coast.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just assumed, because everything was Pacific time based. my mistake. I’m an east coaster, even though everyone hates on boston thats my city.
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you look at the reader map, we’re mostly East Coast and Chicagoland and outlying areas-based.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, most people are asleep before 12pm ET..
and usually, the only one posting after that is Michael Rome.. He’s in California right?
I know, cause that’s 12pm here and i’m wide awake at that time. haha.
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 1, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. I think he doesn’t know a percentage about jiu jitsu or striking as compared to Rogan. I have no idea what Goldberg knows so I’ll leave him out of it.
by Ahhhoki on Sep 1, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Rogan just rubs me the wrong way, but Ranallo knows his stuff (creep as he may be). Even Big John McCarthy attested to that.
I wish Bas Rutten would commentate for the UFC (after sacking Goldberg). El Guapo is the man!
by ludakrish on Sep 1, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Twitter: @EugeneSchelfaut
by Eugene Schelfaut on Sep 1, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is an ongoing debate as to who is legitimately a good commentator in two areas, in my opinion. There are the over-the-top guys like Mauro, Schiavello, Ferral, and then there are the legitimately analytical guys who do the color commentary like Rogan, Mir, etc.
Some people like Schiavello, which I don’t, but he’s legitimately entertaining at least. I don’t really like him all that much, but I can see why people would. Personally, I like Rogan. I think Gus Johnson is a decent play by play guy, although screaming at the Kimbo finish was way over the top. Honestly, I think Pulver would be a phenomenal color guy.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would love pulver, agreed
I also enjoy florian’s guest appearances.
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pulver is pretty awesome. He’s a lot of fun.
Gus Johnson is not an MMA guy.
Florian’s not especially colorful but he does a good job of being evenhanded – even on MMA Live talking about his teammates.
by MMAEruption on Sep 1, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would also like to hear Bas Rutten rooting (haha made myself giggle) but seriously, i would enjoy his commentary. I love inside mma
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bas Rutten is an awsome commentator. You should see the old Pride shows when Quadros and Rutten handled the mics. I think quite unanimously the best commentary team in MMA ever.
by ludakrish on Sep 1, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want Rogan's mic!
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 1, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I loved the Bas/Quadros team. Quadros gets a little carried away at times but he’s usually pretty reserved and objective. Towards the beginning of his PRIDE days, he would almost always say that the ref should stand the fighters up if there wasn’t a submission or pass going on. Bas is flat-out great. I also like Joe Rogan, although he’s definitely a little biased towards some guys. He’ll also spend minutes venerating the rubber guard (which I won’t discount it’s potential) when there are tons of other aspects of fighting that are less obscure and more important, such as technical boxing, kicks, footwork, etc.
Kenny Rice makes me feel like I’m watching a hockey game. I’m not really into Gus Johnson or Frank Shamrock. As far as fighters go, I think Randy is the best at commentary.
by Ahhhoki on Sep 1, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How dare you dislike The Voice. It’s like having the internet doing the PBP every time he does a show.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Sep 1, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way too over the top and trying to be witty and clever.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Sep 1, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Gus to death but I just feel like he’s a bit of an MMA neophyte.
by woomikee on Sep 2, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps I need to rewatch
but Nogueira seemed to take almost as many punches in the Couture fight as he did in the Mir fight. Mir was able to slip more of Nogueira’s punches compared to Randy, which could be attributed to a number of disputed factors. Does Mir pack more power in his strikes than Randy? I don’t know. Does Lesnar pack more power than Mir or Randy? I believe that is true.
by rzor on Sep 1, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The main difference I saw was that the punches weren’t direct shots to the schnazz or chin. A lot of the shots were glancing off his head or to areas that weren’t vital to maintaining consciousness.
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by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was definitely a solid shot. Probably would have downed Nog if it had hit his chin.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Nog is definately lucky he tucked his chin when he threw the right
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im sure he intends to tuck the chin in when he throws—he’s a pro fighter
by judonerd on Sep 1, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happens
when one of the big boys in the division land that shot?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Sep 1, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mir is definately not one of the more powerful guys… he means Velasquez, Carwin, Brock, Gonzaga, and now maybe duffee
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Carwin lands that shot, Nogueira is probably down for the count.
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by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Between the three options of
Nogueira’s chin is back because he’s healthy now, Nogueira didn’t get hit with as many solid strikes as the Mir fight, or Couture didn’t hit as hard, which do you think was more likely (please don’t say all three)?
by rzor on Sep 1, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’ s a combination of a healthier Nogueira (in-shape) and the fact that Couture doesn’t have a streak of monster knockout power.
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by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not-so-secretly
you wanted to say all three:
The main difference I saw was that the punches weren’t direct shots to the schnazz or chin.
I’m just trying to slow down the Nog-Train before it gets a little out of hand. I think if Randy had a little more power behind those shots, Nogueira would have fallen.
I had picked Randy to win by UD, but hindsight shows me Nogueira’s crisper striking (compared to the Mir fight) combined with Randy’s size and reach disadvantage on the feet led to a pretty good match-up in Nog’s favor. I don’t think Nogueira will find that advantage as often in the rest of the HW division.
by rzor on Sep 1, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may be right. I think someone like Carwin landing that shot crushes Nogueira.
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by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carwin landing that shot crushes everybody.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Sep 1, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Carwin lands that shot Nog's head might pop off
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 1, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Sapp already taught us that Nog is unkillable.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Sep 1, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whether or not somebody goes down is more situational than having much to do with the conditioning, power or speed of the athletes. It’s more about hitting the right spot at the right time, although having brick-like hands doesn’t hurt your chances. Think about Anderson’s jab-finish on Forrest. Hardly any power compared to hundreds of shots Forrest has taken in the past.
The reason that Nog didn’t go out in this fight is because he did a lot of smaller things right – better footwork; the Mir fight, he was constantly flat-footed with his chin up.and hands wide. A little bit of head movement and balance can go a long way.
by Ahhhoki on Sep 1, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for the Forrest fight, a wall has terrible punching technique but it will knock you out if you run face first into it.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Sep 1, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How nice would it be to have that ESPNHD logo in the corner of an actual live event
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Sep 1, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nogueira did get hit. The difference was Couture got knocked down whereas Nogueira didn’t. Nogueira dominated, but he didn’t “own” Couture in the stand up other than knocking him down when he did hit. If Lesnar loses, Nogueira should get the title fight. If Lesnar wins, Nogueira needs to get a rematch with Mir to settle the “staph infection” question once and for all.
An excuse is an excuse. Just as I won’t say that the reason Nogueira knocked Couture down was due to Couture’s chin failing, I’m not going to give Nogueira a pass for a “staph infection.” Please, if you fight at not your best, then you still got beat; leave the excuses at home.
by cyph on Sep 1, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn’t be opposed to this idea at all.
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by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously, I rather have Nog fight Mir again than having him go for the title already, he’s only 1-1 on his last two fights, so he needs another win. Definitely have him fight Mir again, UFC should just scratch the kongo fight and give it to Nog.
by orcus on Sep 1, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1-1
in your last two fights should get you a title shot? I think not.
Dont get down on Forrest, no one has moves like Anderson Silva.
by ryanwk628 on Sep 1, 2009 11:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Really??
Maybe you should take a look @ the current champs resume. He was 1-1 in UFC when he got his shot. And he’s a monster that I think can hold onto the belt for a while. I’d like to see Nog get a shot while he still has something left.
by frickshun on Sep 1, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I slept with cardboard cutouts of Brock with a WWE belt too, I’d probably ignore the obvious facts and go straight for the ones which help my case as well. Well done.
by Ahhhoki on Sep 1, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I saw I thought Brock deserved it? Nope. Good one. Youre a winner.
But Brock was rapidly improving with dominating wins, and had been dominating Frank Mir in his only loss. Add a little submission defense to his game and he looks untouchable. Compare their two losses to Mir. One looked like he would be competitive in a rematch, the other not so much.
Dont get down on Forrest, no one has moves like Anderson Silva.
by ryanwk628 on Sep 1, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is true. But I do believe that Nogueira stands a better chance against Lesnar than, say, Rothwell or Velasquez.
by Ahhhoki on Sep 1, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let Nog beat Mir, then I say give it to him. Brock can wait for that.
Dont get down on Forrest, no one has moves like Anderson Silva.
by ryanwk628 on Sep 1, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you wanna play that game he’s 4-1 in his last 5 fights.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Sep 1, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not? the guy holding the belt was 1-1 going into his title shot.
by nastyem on Sep 1, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
^ oops, that was a response to the guy above
by nastyem on Sep 1, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that, but it discredits the belt if people dont have to earn a right to a title shot. Look at it like this: a BJJ school the purple belt class needs some more guys, so they let a kid who just got his blue belt move up. It discredits it because it was not earned.
Dont get down on Forrest, no one has moves like Anderson Silva.
by ryanwk628 on Sep 1, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Terrible comparison.
There are requirements for earning those belts, you can have as many or as little as they want.
There is 1 championship belt. The requirement to get it is to beat the man that has it, that’s it. You can’t talk shit about someone getting a title shot without bringing up a viable alternative because someone needs to fight for the belt.
by Phildo on Sep 1, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand there is one belt, but as Anderson has proved, a dominant champion needs something to do in between challengers or else youre left with boring noncompetitive fights with a dominant champ and a guy who really shouldnt be matched up against him.
Let Nog beat Mir, then I say give it to him. Brock can wait for that.
Dont get down on Forrest, no one has moves like Anderson Silva.
by ryanwk628 on Sep 1, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anderson is in a different situation.
He has recently beat most of the other top ranked fighters in his division, and he is not taking other fights in 205 to “have something to do.” he’s doing it to make money, which you said was not an acceptable reason before.
The fights in the HW division are money makers, the fights for Anderson right now are not, so it’s not a good comparison.
by Phildo on Sep 1, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought they brought Anderson up to 205 because he was not challenged at 185… aka, bored. He cant fight (beat) Henderson 10 times and expect people to keep buying the ppvs. Who else is there?
Dont get down on Forrest, no one has moves like Anderson Silva.
by ryanwk628 on Sep 1, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s about money. It’s about money, it’s about money.
by Phildo on Sep 1, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
why always title shots
why do they always hype title shots in HW. Lesner so early, Carwin early. If the heavyweight division is week give it some time to build up with great fights let some people put a string of victories together before getting a shot. Two fights is not a run its two fights. Am I the only one who would love to see Mir vs Nog 2?
by son of miss the mark on Sep 1, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It isn’t very deep at the moment. That’s the main reason.
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by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because the champ has to fight somebody.
by Phildo on Sep 1, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Other than making more money, why should the champ fight unless there is a worthy challenger? I dont see a problem letting Brock fight once a year.
Dont get down on Forrest, no one has moves like Anderson Silva.
by ryanwk628 on Sep 1, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as a fan, you’d really like to see him only fight once a year? the guy will have under 10 fights by the time he retires
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that, but dont want to see the HW challenger become a round robin of whos turn is it now to loose to brock? Once this division gets deeper it shouldnt be a problem.
Dont get down on Forrest, no one has moves like Anderson Silva.
by ryanwk628 on Sep 1, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why say “other than making more money”
Fighting is the champion’s job. Why would he not do it?
by Phildo on Sep 1, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People who make comments like this rarely have a better candidate for the title shot. HW is a division where anything can happen. dude’s get KO’ed and there are upsets all the time. It’s hard for anyone who is fighting top level opponents to string together 4-5 wins in a row, so if you waited for that you’d either get a guy who built his record on scrubs or you’d never see a title fight.
Carwin has won 4 fights in the UFC in a row, but his shot is early? And instead of him they should have Brock fight who? Nog, who just beat a former champ and is a former champ shouldn’t be in the mix?
Also I’d like to see Nog-Mir 2 just because that win was BS and it’s added to the already overrated Mir’s resume. Amazing that a guy beats Tank Abbott and Wes Sims twice, breaks Tim Sylvia’s arm and comes back to a string of horrible losses is considered somehow amazing. UFC’s hype train is in full effect on that guy.
by Jason H. on Sep 1, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point exactly
why would you want to hold a title in the in a division thats sub par compared to all the other divisions. The U.F.C should say make a tournament over five u.f.cs and the winner takes the title. Four HW fights per ufc two main event two under card. 20 fights that could make the division deeper.
by son of miss the mark on Sep 1, 2009 11:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s fine when there is no champion.
Dream’s first tournaments built a lot of excitement and made some stars. But what do you do after that? The champ needs to fight. Even using Dream as the perfect example. They had 2 tournaments, crowned a LW and MW champion. The LW champ got hurt, the second best guy “won” the wamma belt* and then went into a WW tournament, and the MW champ vacated the belt and moved onto a super hulk tournament. Things started stagnating.
The champion needs to fight. People whine when a title fight (or any fight) gets pushed back for 4 months because of TUF, imagine doing it for a whole year for a tournament?
by Phildo on Sep 1, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
becuase they have a new TUF heavyweights coming up that will make the division deeper.
by JaTinkles on Sep 1, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would they do that? The division is getting much deeper already, no need for a tourney. Maybe for strikeforce, who has about 4.5 heavyweights
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UFC HW is a deep division. There is a false assumption that just because the #1 guy isn’t there that it’s not deep. They have the top 4-5 HW, and the deepest young up and comers at HW. They have the two of the best JJ HW in Mir and Nogueira. They have three future stars in Valesquez, Dos Santos and Carwin. They have the #2 guy. They have up and comers like Duffie. They have gate keepers like Herring, Gonzaga and Kongo. They also have an aging former superstar in CroCop. CroCop would destroy most fighters at LHW if he just moved down in weight. The notion that the HW division is “weak” compared to LHW is bizarre.
Werdum is not top ten because he’s one dimensional. I like Rogers but I have a feeling he’s the other side of the coin of Werdum, strong standup and no ground game. Arlovski has a glass jaw even if he has great striking. Overeem is another Gonzaga. He’s a destroyer when fighting lesser fighters, but the moment they punch back, he will fold so fast your head will spin. Really, no one other than Fedor can match up with the fighters in the UFC. This is coming from a guy who watches all the Strikeforce events in San Jose live.
by cyph on Sep 1, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eventhough Werdum was the #1 contender in the UFC, now all of a sudden he couldnt even compete. One loss (fluke) does not take away what kind of fighter he is. He would have a very real chance of beating everyone in that division. Overeem and Arlovski would also compete in the UFC HW division. Rogers I do think he is unproven, but not anymore so than Carwin, and hes fighting for the title off of one good win (over a guy that Werdum KO’d twice)
by xbuckeyex05 on Sep 1, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re not a contender if you got KO’ed and released. Werdum was mostly hype as he came from Japan, the land of anything goes. Once in America, he had a horrible fighter against Glass Jaw Arlvoski where he played patty cake with him and lost. Then he beat Gonzaga (legit win) and Vera (yawn), one gate keeper and one has-been. Then he was quickly KO’ed by Junior Dos Santos.
If you’re going to downplay Carwin’s win, then you may as well take Werdum out of your argument. Both beat a guy with no heart. Carwin is a guy with a 100% finish rate. Can you say the same against Vai Cavalo?
by cyph on Sep 1, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your attempt to discredit Werdum here makes no sense.
He was not “mostly hype.” The guy was a BJJ world champion with a solid record coming from Japan, hot off a win against Aleks Emelianenko. He beat Gonzaga twice before Carwin ever got a crack at him (by TKO both times, which doesn’t help your argument that he’s one-dimensional). And Werdum might have a 100% finish rate too if he was fighting the kind opposition that Carwin fought prior to Napao.
I mean, if Dos Santos is a “future star,” it’s purely because he beat Werdum. If Carwin is a “future star,” it’s on the strength of a win Werdum had pulled of twice already. But in your own estimation, Werdum is a one-dimensional non-top-10 non-contender. Somehow I get the feeling you’d be hyping him if he hadn’t got released over a contract dispute…
by JRN on Sep 1, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alot of stars are built on the back of CroCop. Does that make him a contender right now? The winner becomes stars, the loser are moved back to the end of the line. Don’t pull the UFC nuthugger card, that’s weak.
by cyph on Sep 1, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There would seem to be a difference between Cro Cop, who was last seemed like a top contender around 2007 and then incurred two consecutive disappointing losses, and Werdum, who lost to Dos Santos less than a year ago.
I look at it this way: you can say “Dos Santos is a rising star because he beat Werdum,” or you can say “Werdum clearly isn’t very good because he lost to Dos Santos,” but not both. Either it’s a good win because Werdum is good, or it’s meaningless for Dos Santos because Werdum was all hype anyway.
Don’t pull the UFC nuthugger card, that’s weak.
I can see it now… “They have three of the best JJ HW in Mir, Nogueira, and Werdum.” Be honest with yourself, cyph. It feels good.
by JRN on Sep 1, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where do you rank Dos Santos? Where do you rank Werdum? Neither Dos Santos or Werdum are in the top ten.
Werdum is not top ten because he’s one dimensional.
This is my quote. Did I say he’s not good? I said he’s not top ten. This is true statement. Sometimes people on the Internet just love to argue to prove they’re right. They don’t even read what people wrote.
by cyph on Sep 1, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d put Dos Santos and Werdum at #9 and #10 respectively. What 8 fighters would you suggest be ranked above them?
You didn’t outright say Werdum wasn’t good. But you did say he was “mostly hype,” that he had a “horrible fight against Glass Jaw Arlvoski where he played patty cake with him,” and described him as having only one legit win, with the caveat that this win was over “a guy with no heart.” His other UFC wins were, in your words, against one has-been and a gatekeeper.
So let’s see—you suggest that he’s overrated, denigrate him for his losses and discredit his wins, and insist he’s one dimensional, not top ten, and not a contender. Maybe I’m crazy, but it seems like you’re implying that Fabricio Werdum is not an especially good fighter. But that’s right, you never used the phrase “not good.” My mistake.
This is all to say nothing of the weirdness of ranking fighters based on assessments of their fighting style (“not top ten because he’s one-dimensional”) rather than their fighting accomlishments. It’s especially weird in the case of Werdum, who is a BJJ expert whose biggest win came by way of strikes in the clinch.
by JRN on Sep 1, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you actually agree with the B.E. consensus heavyweight rankings, you’re crazier than I ever imagined.
by JRN on Sep 1, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My argument is that Carwin had ONE good win as does Rogers, and to me a win over Arlovski is a hell of a lot better than a win over Gonzaga. Throw out the rest of their wins over cans, who cares if he has a 100% finish rate. he hasnt proven anything more than Rogers but somehow to all of you its ok that Carwin gets a title shot
by xbuckeyex05 on Sep 1, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dos Santos was a nobody before he beat Werdum. Gonzaga was a nobody before he beat CroCop. Lesnar was a nobody until he beat Couture. I’ve already said that Rogers is the best thing going for Strikeforce. I am high on Rogers not because he’s undefeated but how he win in that streak. Having said that, his competition isn’t close to Carwin’s, and his dominance isn’t even close. They’re both very good prospect, but only one guy is a wrestler with credentials.
by cyph on Sep 1, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t think its that deep. There is a disparity between the upper and middle echelon of talent. While they are beginning to become deeper, there is still a slight disparity. I think some of these guys are filling that though.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Show me why the LHW division is so much deeper.
by cyph on Sep 1, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Show me where I said the LHW division was deeper…
I’m just saying… the HWs aren’t that deep. After TUF and with the recent influx, it’ll be deep as all hell.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand. If you don’t thik the UFC LHW division is deeper, then you have to admit that they’re both the same depth. I believe the LHW division is deep, so by extension the HW is just as deep.
Depth: Top champion, lots of good contenders, good gatekeepers, good up and comers. I don’t see how that’s not deep.
by cyph on Sep 1, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LHW has a lot of talent, I think it’s deeper. But I never said it was deeper above. I don’t even know why we are discussing LHW.
We’re talking about HW. And I have the same criteria as you do, but I also look at a disparity between the top level and mid level fighters. If you look at the MW division, it’s similar to what I think isn’t a very deep division. It’s deep in regards to middle and low level talent, but the space between the top contenders and the champion flat out… sucks for fans. Most guys have to battle each other out for fight after fight just to get a crack at Anderson.
The UFC is doing a great job at creating solid fights in those contender roles, and while the HW division isn’t unbelievable shallow at all, there could be a disparity soon. Right now, it’s fairly deep, but I think the LHW is deeper (there, now I said it) I wouldn’t say they are even, but they are close.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No dominant champ =/= deep.
I don’t agree that just because a division has a guy who’s so above everyone else that it’s shallow. It’s no fault of the division that the champ is so much better than everyone else. it just means that the champ is so much better than everyone else. The LHW was competitive for a while right after Liddell lost his belt. That doesn’t make it a deeper division than Middleweight, it just means it didn’t have a dominant champ until now.
by cyph on Sep 1, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying it’s shallow. I’m saying that it hurts the depth of the division at the top. The mid to low level portion of the division could be very deep, but might not have the talent to run at the top of the division.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would make sense for SF to do a small one to build up to Fedor’s 3rd fight. It doesn’t make sense for the UFC to do it because Brock needs to fight, and there are people with enough names to fight Brock now.
by Phildo on Sep 1, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good points
I just went on the ufc roster and had to really dig and also clean out the whole division to get the fighters for that. tuf alway produces at leased two good fighters. in a year it will be different regardless. But how many times will Brock fight one maybe. We would get to see a lot of good match ups and barring injury a fighter gets sharper with a few fights a year 3 tops. Grim has potential but watch his fights tomato can is being nice when you talk about his early opponents
by son of miss the mark on Sep 1, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cain > Rothwell = Cain for title shot regardless of Lesnar/Carwin outcome.
Rothwell > Cain = If Lesnar loses then Lesnar vs. Rothwell with the winner getting a title shot bc it is
a win, win situation with either a guy that just beat Cain and Lesnar, or Lesnar gets his rematch.
Nog would then fight Carwin for the title.
Rothwell > Cain = If Lesnar wins then Rothwell will fight the Dos Santos/Cro Cop winner for the next title shot while Lesnar will fight Nog.
This is my guess on how it will go.
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Sep 1, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
See, I’m not sure I like Cain in there already, but I don’t see any reason not to do it.
This seems like a legitimate plan, although Rothwell winning isn’t likely.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t either but it seems this is the route they will take with Cain.
I wish they would give him a few more fights first maybe in this order: Rothwell, Cro Cop/Dos Santos, Mir.
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Sep 1, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rothwell nor Velasquez should be getting a shot before Nogueira or DS/CC winner.
by Ahhhoki on Sep 1, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I don’t see why everyone wants to fast-track Cain Velasquez into the title picture. He’s got six fights and his best win is Cheick Kongo. Hey, where’s Heath Herring’s title shot?
by JRN on Sep 1, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isnt Rothwell 1-1 in his last two?
He got crushed by AA. who would get destroyed. If he wins he will just screw Cains chances up. Cyph makes a great point. What other promotion has even half the HWs. Handy and Nog made the division relevant with such a strong performance. The more I look at it I am starting to change my perspective. The world of HW just isn’t that big compared to the other divisions. Good for the UFC for trying to build the division. IF Cain is really impressive he could get the nod but I think there are a few variables that could play into that equation. One more big win for Nog. Dos Santos vs Valesquez /Cro Cop. Not to beat a dead horse but I do really like Nog Mir 2. But Mir Lesner 3 sounds shitty.
by son of miss the mark on Sep 1, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The major downside of Nog defeating Lesnar for the title
is it will keep Fedor atop the rankings for longer. A solid run of dominance against top opponents while Fedor continues to fight cans should move Lesnar to the top of the rankings.
But that won’t happen if he loses – particularly if he loses to someone who lost to Fedor.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Sep 1, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think so. Fighting better competition should move you up the ladder, even if you have lost to someone before. If Fedor than decides he wants to be number one again, and Nog is holding the belt (supposedly), than he’d need to come to the UFC to fight his long time rival. It’s been over 5 years since they’ve met.
by orcus on Sep 1, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, can we just add a button that when you click it inserts a comment that says “NOG IS OMNIPOTENT NOBODY CAN BEAT HIM IT WAS STAPH NOBODY COULD EVER BEAT HIM I LOVE NOG OMGLOLFAG”?
Cause it would save a lot of people a lot of time.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Sep 1, 2009 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You mean we can’t debate? That sounds so…. encouraging.
by orcus on Sep 1, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What debate? There appears to be a consensus that when Nog loses it’s because his strategy of getting pounded until he reflexively pulls a sub ran out of time, but that in a long enough fight he’ll always win.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Sep 1, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
your argument holds no water, Nog has avenged every single loss he has had (with the exception of Fedor and Mir). No one ever, EVER said if he had more time in the Fedor fight he’d have won. We all pretty much knew that Fedor was the better fighter in both of their fights together (that went the distance).
by orcus on Sep 1, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not think anybody has made the argument that Nogueira is omnipotent, or even anything more than the #3 HW. As Rampage has said a few times, every time somebody loses there’s an excuse. And for the Mir fight, Nog’s excuses were valid. Yes, Frank Mir won. That’s why he got a title shot. If people were discounting Mir’s victory, there would have been a lot of tears about him getting a shot at Lesnar but I do not recall any sort of debate about that. But facts are facts, and Nogueira had staph and a bum knee. Maybe it didn’t effect anything, but judging on what I’ve seen and heard, it seems like it did. Nogueira looked almost as bad as Paulo Filho did. When it is such a drop-off in performance, there’s usually an actual reason for it.
by Ahhhoki on Sep 1, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
forget it, ppl like jemaleddin can’t look at someone else’s position. It’s like a republican mind, “just don’t listen to nobody else, I’m right, they’re wrong. Me Me Me! oh yeah, and there is no global warming” :P
by orcus on Sep 1, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh no the Barakalypse is upon us.
When did this post become a political,religious, and Grammar web site?
by son of miss the mark on Sep 1, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just trying to be funny too, believe me I’m not the one to be a grammar police, I make mistakes all the time!
by orcus on Sep 1, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh. You must be new around here. Don’t worry, you’ll get to know me better than that.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Sep 1, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not exactly hard to notice.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Sep 1, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you say it as if it were a bad thing. Am I not supposed to comment?
by orcus on Sep 1, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mir got a shot becaue he beat Nog
but also because he had already beaten Lesnar. that was a key ingredient
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget about the Interim title.
The winner of Nog-Mir had to fight Lesnar in order to unify the belt.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Sep 1, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah Nog is beatable, it’s just really, Frank Mir is not a very good fighter at all. Never has been. So him dominating Mir was definitely a fluke.
by Jason H. on Sep 1, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i completely disagree that he’s never been a good fighter.
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait, you mean a guy who was a heavyweight champ before he was 25, got into an accident that could’ve killed him and came back to the sport, to challenge some of the greatest fighters in the world, and being in the top 15 HWs in the world DOESNT make him a great fighter? what is your criteria?
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
his accomplishments in life are inspirational
I think the fact that he was able to over come tremendous adversity and become relevant and a champ is great and certainly worthy of high praise. Champ at 25 good. How well did he defend as champ injury*. I also don’t care for his persona in public. I have never met him, but to me he appears a bit stand offish and not the kind of person I would seek out to train with. unlike Nog , Handy , Jackson/winklejohn. etc. he doesn’t seem approachable. Maybe that is why I don’t see him as great. To compare one with another he’s like the Riddick Bowe of the UFC.
by son of miss the mark on Sep 1, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
criteria for a great champ
minimum of three title defenses. with #1-5 contenders
by son of miss the mark on Sep 1, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya, fighters like Mir never make excuses... when they loose
by son of miss the mark on Sep 1, 2009 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm not the grammar police
but for the love of god, loose is not lose. So many people make this mistake
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah this one crops up far too much! It is more effort to get it wrong than right, which flies in the face of most typing errors.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 3, 2009 5:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanx must'ave bean mine grate edacation form pubelick scools
by son of miss the mark on Sep 1, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
spell checks flaws exposed my ignorance now i'm tryin to be funny
For the record Fedor is omnipotent. Unless he loses to Grim. Then he suck just like Dana always said.
by son of miss the mark on Sep 1, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Then hesucksucks just like Dana always said.
:P
by orcus on Sep 1, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Mir improved his skills for Nog AND Nog had staph infection and torn miniscus, they need to have a rematch to clear up this matter. It was stupid for Nog to take a fight so injured, so he deserved to get beat down.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Sep 1, 2009 1:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
dont get me wrong, I love Nog. I want to bake him a cake.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Sep 1, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m surprised there aren’t more people calling for it. Let’s settle it once and for all to see how Healthy Nog does against Mir.
Sergio Non,
MMA writer, USA TODAY
http://mma.usatoday.com
by Sergio Non on Sep 1, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s tough for me to want to see Mir vs. Nog II, not because it’s an interesting fight. I just don’t know how much of Frank Mir saying he “beatdown Nogueira the first time” and how he’s going to “put a steel plate in his arm” that I can take. Mir’s cocky attitude, while understood, is annoying and I can’t stand it.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I almost vomited when he was using the baking analogy during the UFC 100 countdown when he was describing the knockdowns of Nog before finishing the fight. I would have to skip a countdown of any rematch entirely.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Sep 3, 2009 5:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Nog and that was a great fight
but his standing defense is not good. I actually think Couture caught him with the cleaner punches but his hurt Randy a lot more. That being said Nogs hands are always down and just about every punch Randy threw he landed. If Nog fights a guy with the power of Lesnar or Carwin those shots are gonna put him to sleep.
by xbuckeyex05 on Sep 1, 2009 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but neither Lesnar nor Carwin can strike like Couture though.
by orcus on Sep 1, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that we know of. Lesnar hasn’t had to stand and trade as of yet, hes too busy breaking orbital bones and crushing dreams.
by amadeus on Sep 1, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not technically but with how wide open his face is any fighter could catch him
by xbuckeyex05 on Sep 1, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So yet another Nog thread turns into a make excuse after excuse for him getting destroyed by Mir pathetic fanboy rant. Give me a break make all the excuses and rationalizations that you want, the fact is that when Nog fought Mir he got destroyed end of story. It’s incredible the lenghts people will go to defend their favorites instead of just accepting what happened it’s no wonder i’ve soured on Nog and his fanboys.
by Raker on Sep 1, 2009 6:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
NOG IS THE BEST!
:P
I just like imagining you having a huge red face when reading that.
by orcus on Sep 1, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And this post by Raker is exactly the type of crap I hate to hear from fans. Yeah, excuses like a staph infection and a blown meniscus are bullshit, you give ME a break.
Nogueira is far from a favorite of mine, yet you make this glaring generalization.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whereas your tireless excuse-making for Noegueira is just music to my ears. I can’t wait to hear what causes his next loss. I know it won’t be his fault!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Sep 2, 2009 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve actually always had respect for Nog and everything he represents, the thing I can’t stand is fighters and their fanboys making excuses after getting destroyed. Nog didn’t get beat in a close decision, he got beat up knocked down repeatedly and stopped there is nothing to make excuses about accept the loss and move on.
by Raker on Sep 1, 2009 6:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So, if you were hospitalized with a debilitating staph infection, come out of the hospital, and blow your meniscus.. you’re saying none of that matters. And to be fair, Nogueira mentioned NONE of that and took the fight anyways.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watch Diego v Coschek and tell me Diego’s staph infection didnt affect how he fought. Then rewatch the Nog v Mir fight and be enlightened by how similar Nog fought with his staph infection.
No one has said Nog’s loss was due to the staph. People have simply stated his performance was affected by the staph.
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Sep 2, 2009 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once you decide to step into the octagon all the excuses and bs goes out the window, no one put a gun to his head and told Nog to fight. He chose to step in and fight Mir and got destroyed end of story, for him or anyone to come back afterwards and make excuses is pathetic. You want respect for fighting through injuries like a man than you take your losses like a man too, you can’t cherry pick what excuses you make after the fact.
by Raker on Sep 1, 2009 7:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dude... use reply.
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by Leland Roling on Sep 1, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excuses? I just want to see a healthy Nog with 2 knees fight Mir again. The hyperbole you’re dropping on your posts is smothering any argument you’re trying to make. Nog is asked about how much his injuries affected him, he answers and immediately says he didn’t want to take anything away from Frank’s performance. He didn’t make excuses and personally, as a fan, I want to see them fight again at some point.
by woomikee on Sep 2, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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