Quote of the Day: Dana White - "Fedor Will Put Strikeforce out of Business"
by Nick Thomas on Aug 6, 2009 6:45 PM EDT
in MMA News
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"They have no money, no fighters. They're a small-town show." "Cung Le hasn't defended the title since like 1997. Josh Thomson hasn't defended the belt in like two years. Who's their other champion? Alistair Overeem? He hasn't defended the belt in like two years. It's Strike-Farce. It's a little regional show with no one in it."
"Fedor will put them out of business." "They have no money and no distribution. You know how many people watch their fights? Their last fight [on Showtime cable], 245,000 people watched that fight. That's nothing."
"Strikeforce should have stayed the way they were." ... "If they want to fight me, we’re gonna fight. We know how that goes, and we know how it ends."
-- Dana White fires the first shots in the UFC-Strikeforce war.
HT: Fanhouse.com, Sherdog.com
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White was asked a question about Strikeforce, whose NBC late-night show drew a record-high of 1.1 million viewers recently, and in the answer he praised the regional promotion for doing things the right way.
“I think that’s awesome. I think that’s great. Strikeforce is a good show. They’ve been putting on good fights for a long time. They run a great business. It’s good. That’s a good thing. It’s a positive thing.”
“These guys run a real promotion,” added White. “They know how to run a promotion. They don’t try to tamper with fights. They don’t have (expletive) goofballs from backyard barbecues fighting. It’s a good thing. I hope they do ten million viewers next week.”
by DirtyML on Aug 6, 2009 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
it's politics
he’s not going to praise them now that it might end up being a real competition to the UFC.
I thought you said recently?
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 6, 2009 4:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The whole thing was a quote I believe.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 6, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
"Strikeforce should have stayed the way they were."
With that line, we can now throw out any good words Dana ever said about Strikeforce in the past.
And with Kimbo in TUF10, we can throw out any “backyard barbecue” quotes as well.
by TheConcreteKid on Aug 6, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
What was strikeforce going to do? NOT sign fedor? it makes no sense what dana white is saying. He says strikeforce is a promotion with no fighters etc etc. and when they do sign someone with a name they are a farce? these statements seem to contradict.
by pandaboy99 on Aug 6, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They signed a guy they can’t afford to fight competition that’s beneath him.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't recall
Dana ever saying he thought Fedor wasn’t a top 10 HW… He’s said he didn’t think he was #1, that’s for sure. Any reference for this pandaboy?
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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i just googled it…my mistake he didnt say top 10 hw he said he was never a top 5 hw during a press conference. But my point still stands that overeem, werdum and rodgers arent that beneath him.
They’re a lot further than Brock, Randy, Nog and Mir, and arguably lower than Carwin, Cain, Kongo and Dos Santos
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
i dunno i think overeem could kickbox kongos ass and Brett Rodgers could flash KO Mir Brandon vera style
Fair enough – I think Carwin or Cain would GnP the shit out of both of them
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Carwin
Yes.
Cain for whatever reason still needs to do more to impress me, which I am sure is at the top of his list.
BOOSH
why is that UFC fighters are critiqued much tougher to their non UFC counterparts?
It is very true that Cain has further to go but how is it different to Rogers? Both need more time to develop yet the UFC fighter gets put lower on the pecking order and the non UFC guy gets put on a pedastool and is supposedly ready to fight the arguably best HW in the world?
I wouldn’t be suprised if the likes of Carwin/Cain/etc would be “ready” to fight fedor right now in they weren’t in the UFC
I totally agree
Fedor was a FREE AGENT, and therefore was not the property of the UFC nor was he a former fighter of their organization. So does this mean that Strikeforce CANNOT sign whoever the UFC doesn’t want them to sign. For example, Bobby Lashley is a free agent right now, so if the UFC has their eyes on him but have not signed him, then Strikeforce is NOT allowed to make a bid for him either? I can kind of see it in a business sense, but otherwise, I do fail to see the true logic in making Strikeforce an enemy. Strikeforce signed Fedor, which they had every right to do, because it is not like they snatched Fedor from the UFC since he was not under contract with them to begin with.
Also, if the UFC wants to crush Strikeforce, then MMA fans are saying that another promotion will just pop up. However, I would rather have Strikeforce around then some other organization because they are doing three important things for MMA: 1. They are signing fighters that have been released by the UFC or are not UFC-caliber talent and putting them in a position to be seen on television and give them exposure, 2. They are pretty much the premier organization in the US right now for Womens MMA, 3. Strikeforce does run an MMA promotion with a good business model and brings fights that MMA fans would like to see. While it is in the UFC’s prerogative to make war with Strikeforce and ultimately crush them, that would do no real favors to many MMA fans and fighters alike.
In the end, crushing Strikeforce really does nothing for the UFC. Unless Strikeforce is directly taking viewers away from the UFC (which I am guessing they are not), I see no real benefit in the UFC being at war with Strikeforce.
They can sign whoever they want. They just have to reap what they sow.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 6, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Personally, and this is just my opinion, but I would be much more understanding if Strikeforce snatched Fedor from the UFC IF Fedor was under contract to the UFC. Otherwise, this just makes Dana White look ridiculous (and I am a huge fan/supporter of his) in that he comes across as extremely short-sighted. With or without Fedor, the UFC will still be number 1 and make great business and make money. With Fedor, Strikeforce will still be the number 2 MMA organization out there and be no REAL threat to the UFC. While many will argue that Strikeforce made the first shot by signing Fedor, I argue that the UFC is making the first shot by declaring war on Strikeforce for something that they had every right to do and won’t TRULY affect their own business.
Stuff is happening behind the scenes. This is really Zuffa against Showtime and people looking for boxing promoter style MMA fights.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 6, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Succint.
Hadn’t really thought of it this way before.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Dana is a smart man but the problem I have with Dana is that he bad mouths anyone who doesn’t agree with his position. Fedors contract is for ONE year not forever. Its not like Fedor lesnar cant happen a year from now after his three fights are up. Dana just loves to burn bridges which just lengthens the negotiation process because you have to rebuild that bridge that just burned down like the whole Tito Ortiz. You dont see GMs of major sports teams cussing out other managers because a star player took the other deal, at least not to the extent dana white does.
The analogy is inaccurate.
To compare Dana and the UFC to a GM and a national sport franchise from the NBA/MLB/NFL just doesn’t work, because there is nobody else on his/their level. They stand alone on the top of the heap.
It would be a little bit more like the GM of a MLB team complaining about a star player from Cuba signing in Japan for less money, simply for the purpose of promoting his image by playing against inferior competition.
Sure, you don’t see that type of thing very often (ever?), but I think that further illustrates the oddity of this whole situation. These things simply don’t happen, because top-of-the-world competitors always prefer to battle the best available opponents. You don’t get to the top of the talent pile without that mentality.
All of this stuff points a dirty finger M-1’s way.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I see what he did there
He took the name Strikeforce, and changed it to Strikefarce. Brilliant.
BOOSH
i think Suckforce wouldve been better.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Aug 6, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
IT’S TIME FOR WAR
L2+R2+Square+Triangle)
by Sokonojudo on Aug 6, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Pretty sure the UFC already used this one
"He built his whole reputation (as a) waffle house chef. They've been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes." - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Damon O. on Aug 6, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love the UFC AND I love Strikeforce, but it was only a matter of time. As they got bigger and better they were destined to go from ‘a well run model’ to ‘Any Which Way But Loose with a camera and no Fido Betto’, hehe.
Anyway, this does not bode well for Strikeforce. Matter of fact, it probably means the bell is begun to toll, but I hope not. I really really like Strikeforce but Dana is right about their champions not defending the title in years and that their roster being thin. Seriously, other than Rogers and Overeem who do they have that could even have a punchers chance at beating Fedor? They will pay him more money and give him less competition…not hard to see why Fedor signed with them. Still, everyone in the world wants to see what Fedor will do with Brock. The longer Fedor waits the better Lesnar will get and the older Fedor will get. Now is his best chance, to be honest. Fedor isn’t invincible and neither is Brock, but as time goes on…especially years…the more it favors Lesnar. Fedor has said many many times that he wants to fight the best…well the best fighters in the world are in the UFC.
I love that everyone acted like Dana and the UFC wouldn’t declare war on Strikeforce for this move. Of-fucking-course they would.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 6, 2009 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Those people were dreaming, as they always do, of a non-UFC dominated landscape.
Good luck with that.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Though yeah, you have to be pretty damn naive to think Dana and the UFC actually respected someone enough to not put them out of business.
WHAT THE HELL DOES DECLARE WAR MEAN!!!!????
does it mean more name calling? or does it mean more fights, more free fights?
if its more free fights? then war is what the fans want right?
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Aug 6, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
War is using the warchest and revenue the UFC makes to either steal Strikeforce’s fighters or price them so high they become liabilities.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
That's the longer-term attack vector,
but the near-term is to siphon off their revenue with counter-programming that doesn’t really cost the UFC anything. That hit will hurt, but Strikeforce probably won’t feel it as acutely as the other promotions that came before them.
They’ll likely survive long enough to actually feel the pressure from Zuffa out-pricing their top talent.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
this is all promoter b.s. He likes strikeforce. He doesn’t like that they got Fedor, but he likes the way they do things generally.
He liked the way they did things that didn’t impact his compny. Signing up Fedor did impact his company.
"I'd love to be a Cheick Kongo looking brother that could actually move and do a lot of funky stuff - Jiu Jitsu, takedowns, kicks and stuff." - Jon Jones.
"The training's going great for UFC 101. I'm making sure not to overtrain." - B.J. Penn.
this is all promoter b.s. Helikesliked strikeforce. He doesn’t like that they got Fedor, but helikesliked the way theydodid things generally.
fixed it for ya
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 6, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I laughed out loud about Cung Le not fighting since 1997.
People need to stop getting their panties in a bunch about Dana, he says some pretty funny shit if you just don’t really care.
by Phildo on Aug 6, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
This is true.
And in between his swears, he typically predicts the future.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 6, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Nostradana
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 6, 2009 4:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
hehe
me likey!
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
dude... awesome.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
That was a funny rant.
Yet, he keeps failing to sign Fedor in free agency because he keeps doing this.
This
It’s not Dana’s fault.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering the number of unusual concessions Dana was willing to make (like sambo every Thursday), I don’t see how anyone can blame him.
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 6, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Dana just contradicted himself here, so who knows what was in that UFC contract unless youve personally seen it.
I’m going to trust Meltzer on the contract – and by the way, wouldn’t they have said something other than ‘we will only co-promote’ if that wasn’t the ONLY sticking point?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
They didn’t mention the money, and they didn’t contradict Lorenzo’s statement that Sambo could be worked out.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
“We only sign if it’s co-promotion” and “We would sign if it’s that much money” are total contradictions. Who’s lying here?
by cyph on Aug 6, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The first was said by Finkie, the second by Fedro when Finkie wasn’t around.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
And thats what should be throwing up some red flags.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 6, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How did he contradict himself?
a year ago he said he liked the way Strikeforce did business. They just changed the way they do business. He’s allowed to change his opinion.
by Phildo on Aug 6, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He didn't contradict himself
Strikeforce pre-Fedor and present-Strikeforce are two completely different organizations in terms of their relationship with Zuffa. Signing Fedor was a game changer, so the things Dana said about pre-Fedor Strikeforce do not apply to the current organization.
SADNESS!!!!
i like strikeforce, but they knew that when they got fedor, it would be the end!!
Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit.
Here’s the thing: he’s right on both counts. He’s right in praising them for knowing how to run a successful small level promotion and work within their means, but he’s also right about their fighters. There’s two sides to every coin, and right now with their potential rise as a solid #2 and their signing of Fedor, he’s got to focus on the negative side of the coin.
It’s like you spent a lot of time and energy trying to get this hot chick to go out with you only to see her out with a less attractive guy with a shittier sense of humor and a smaller wallet. You might have had no problems with that dude beforehand, might have even shook his hand out at parties and shot the shit with him, but now he’s affecting you negatively so you’re going to let people know why he sucks. Obviously, Fedor is the hot chick in this aweomely thought out metaphor, and Strikeforce is the ugly dude.
by dropkick101 on Aug 6, 2009 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
You also realize that the hot chick is judging/scoring men on a very different criteria than you feel she should. And you get to the point where you say ‘man, if that chick isn’t buying what I’m selling, that’s her fucking problem.’
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course, just like real life, one hot chick with an ugly guy makes all the other hot chicks think “what does that ugly guy have, I’m really interested!” and then they all chase the ugly guy.
Dana’s response: show everybody that the dude is ugly and the chick ain’t all that.
So basically, he’s being a douchebag. If you’re confident with yourself, you can say “her loss,” and move on. Being all pissy about losing out just makes you look more jilted and immature.
yea... because looking jilted and immature has been such a problem so far...
For all his faults… Dana’s positives have balanced the equation pretty well so far
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Hey, I’m just arguing the analogy…and the people that look up to Dana for what they believe to be “acting badass,” when in reality, if what they say is true, it’s just a bitch move.
Nah dude, it’s annoying and stupid if all you do is go around and yap into everybody’s ear about what a whore she is and what a douche the dude is. But, at the same token, if someone asks you about the situation, you don’t have to sugar coat it to sound “mature.” Part of being a man is calling it like you see it, or at least putting others down to make yourself feel better. If that’s being “immature,” I plan on being immature for the rest of my life. Pussies.
by dropkick101 on Aug 6, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Part of being a man is calling it like you see it, or at least putting others down to make yourself feel better.
Respectfully, I’m going to have to disagree with that last bit.
I thought it was obvious that I was half-kidding.
by dropkick101 on Aug 6, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I Rec’d it for that line. I thought it was funny.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Where are you now
The people who were claiming that Dana wouldn’t go to war with Strikeforce.
Scott Coker you mean? I don’t remember anyone else claiming that.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
No, he means the posters here at BE. Plenty of people thought White and the UFC were going to carry on without “going after” Strikeforce.
No shit? How’d I miss that?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Here was one link
SteveXXXX (I forgot the numbers). What a joke of an argument. Pardon the Jihad use.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/7/31/970354/handicapping-tomorrows-announcement
Lets also not overlook the simple fact that Dana may actually believe they are mistreating the sport now, whereas before he was fine with them. Giving the keys to the city to Vadim, who increasingly looks like a gangster crook, is hard to justify as treating the sport the right way.
by Foxskinrug on Aug 6, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
If by “sport” you mean pissing off Zuffa, then, you are correct.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 6, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Finkie is shady as all shit, he does not apply for a license for any of M-1’s shows, he rather piggybacks off another promoter. Whne asked about this he disappears.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
How can I learn to disappear when the shit gets heavy like that. It’s awesome.
When my girl asks me about seeing me get all chatty with some other girl, I’d love to have this skill.
It involves a dog, a windstorm, a car alarm, a Russian translator and a conference call.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 6, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Please. Even without Zuffa, co-promoting with gangsters is an insult to the sport and to the fighters. If he’s not a gangster, he’s a leech, still an insult to the sport and to the fighters.
by Foxskinrug on Aug 6, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Scott Coker - "I Don’t Think This Will Escalate"
Hahahaha!
It was funny when he first said it, now it’s hilarious.
I can’t really believe he didn’t see this coming.
Of course he knew.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Classless guy in MMA
After the insults directly toward Fedor, now he turns his jacket on Strikeforce and start to insult them too.
I have rarely seen a sport manager so classless. He should be more professional. His behavior could hurt him back one day.
White failed to sign Fedor. Strikeforce was able. No need to start a war over a fighter who picked what seemed to be the best offer for him.
This is so childish. He is a great manager for the UFC, but should seriously stop acting like a spoiled child.
I think he should keep doing exactly what he’s doing (short of cursing out journalists)
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm SHOCKED that you of all people would think that
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Aug 6, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You know, I really don’t care anymore – the alternative is to be one of these idiots that thinks a fragmented sport is better, and I’d rather jump off a fucking building than be that stupid.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you look at the world around you and aren’t angry, you should have your eyes checked.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 6, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Hey, it’s still true.
Have you heard of Darfur? North Korea? Read about that chick who ate her baby? The lady who blew up her 6-year-old disabled son for the insurance money? The cop who tasered a 72-year-old woman?
If these things don’t make you angry, it’s you.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 6, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're right
It’s me. I hear of those things, get angry for like 2 seconds, then go play with my puppy or go to the gym. Hell, maybe I’ll read a bit or go buy some groceries!
I guess some people could get super-angry about those things…that’s their choice.
BOOSH
Not to go too far off the deep end here,
but it’s perfectly normal to have both reactions. They’re essentially the tectonic plates of a society. Eventually, the people who can’t just let go of their anger snap and do something drastic, which calls attention to the issue which caused them to snap, and allows society to consider whether or not they should amend the issue in some way.
As long as puppies and books keeps the masses in check, everyone more or less agrees it’s ok to maintain the status quo.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
In all fairness to the cop, that lady deserved it.
by cyph on Aug 6, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I was going to make the exact same comment.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Yes, there’s no way a man his size could have restrained her without the taser.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
It was a joke.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Pissy comments like ‘well of COURSE you think that.’ Why yes, of course I DO – seeing as how I’m normally right and pretty damn smart.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I meant in regards to people who want competitive companies...
…they can have an opinion without being stupid and being idiots. Like people who think if a fighter passes a scheduled, non-blood-taking drug test, then he is clean. I don’t call those people stupid idiots.
BOOSH
In a year or two, all we’re going to have to talk about is upcoming fights. The UFC, by then, will be unassailable as the top of the sport.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Please stop calling people stupid and idiots for their opinions.
“Fragmented” sports already work.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Modern professional wrestling has always been more successful with two big American promotions.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
This isn’t pro wrestling. People want to bet on this. That’s the difference.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
If you can’t accept the very legitimate comparisons between the Zuffa and WWE models, I’m not going to discuss this with you.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
(stomps feet, walks away)
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Its a similar business model, but its a fundamentally different product. A straight up comparison just doesn’t work.
I’ve never suggested they were completely parallel comparisons.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Have to agree here. The comparison ends with the similar pre-fight trash talk that essentially excites fans in all sports. I used to be a HUGE pro-wrasslin’ fan and no I try to check it out once every few months but the product is dated and stale to me.
The better comparison is to the major sports. Every major sport in this country is monopolized by one major league (see: major promotion) which houses all the top athletes of the sport. In that way, all the top athletes can compete against each other and it’s much easier to discern who is the best.
Sure, there are certain points like player unions and team models that don’t directly translate, but none of the major sports in the US started with player unions — they emerged out of necessity over time when it became clear that the sport needed them to continue operating at a high level. Unions will eventually emerge down the line.
If it isn’t already apparent, the UFC is the clear-cut major league in the mixed martial arts world and continuously puts on high level events with fantastic match-ups without any real domestic competition. Competition is good when it gives companies incentives to improve their product; the UFC globalizing itself and getting even bigger is incentive enough for Dana and the Fertittas. They don’t need competition to put out a quality product.
by dropkick101 on Aug 6, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can you not read things if they’re surrounded in (these)?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
While not 100% parallel, the main point stands. If you want to be the best football/baseball/basketball (etc) player, you play in the top league. I know people hate the major sports to UFC analogy, but sometimes it makes sense.
Why isn’t each fighter deemed his own “team” competing against other teams? There are obvious differences but there are a lot of similarities which you’re ignorning based on the sole fact that the UFC isn’t a “league”.
While we’re on the subject, what about the former IFL? Given the idea, is that not a basis for an NFL like company? Add in a fighters union and your argument holds even less water.
Please post here more.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
“Sure, there are certain points like player unions and team models that don’t directly translate”
You mean the entire framework of the model?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
It’s almost like people are AFRAID of the fact that the “Pro Wrestling Model” IS the relevant model here.
No. There are a bunch of similarities and things that MMA has taken from the world of scripted fighting, but the whole “we need two major promotions” is not one that translates.
The WWF and WCW both experienced booms in the late 90s due to a variety of factors, including the fact that all the major stars of the previous era had signed with WCW (Hogan, Piper, Flair, Sting, Nash, Hall), while the WWF had a host of younger guys who were taking the industry by storm (Rock, Austin, HHH). The product had become increasingly stale with the same storylines recycled over and over. Upon the emergence of Austin in the WWF and the nWo in WCW, both companies started embracing a model of breaking character and creating fake storylines based on real life occurences that fans who followed the behind-the-scenes action knew about. Thus, the product of both companies improved due to the rivalry between them and each of their respective needs to update with the times.
MMA no doubt has a theatrical element to it, but what makes for a good product is much different than it is in pro wrasslin. Simply put, a good MMA product is solid matchmaking that includes quality, top level fighters. It’s that simple. The UFC has the majority of top talent in the world and books them all against other top talent on a regular basis. Having a major competitor housing a similar amount of top level talent will only split up the talent pool and keep top fights from happening. The product of each company will get worse because of the dillution of talent, whereas having all the top talent in one place guarantees a higher quality product as long as those running it know what the fuck they’re going.
by dropkick101 on Aug 6, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 15 recs
Yes.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd for unadulterated truth
"He built his whole reputation (as a) waffle house chef. They've been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes." - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
I would really like to see the counterpoint to this argument.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Where’s Kid Nate?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I respectively disagree with the idea of a union eventually appearing in the UFC. The difference between MMA and other league sports is that the lesser players have value. The stars never need protecting. In Football or in the UFC the top players will always receive compensation way beyond a union minimum so there is no incentive for them strike by them. But the non-stars in football have value (if you sack the QB enough watch how soon he’ll start clamoring for his linemen) . If they sit out the quality of play plummets. It’s usually the number of quality second tier players that win championships (how many championships has LD won). Now in MMA what would happen if the second tier went on strike. They’d cancel the undercard and maybe lose the a quality 4th or 5th fight. People would still tune in for BJ versus Florian and Silva versus Forrest, so those second tier have no leverage to force them to cave in.
soccer doesn't work in the US
because the US does not have great soccer players, and because the US really dislikes soccer. if they didn’t, it would have already been one of the big sports in the US, since it’s not, it never will be.
You know, it’s all theory and conjecture at this point. You and I differ on such fundamental issues as whether or not the PRIDE deal worked out, so I don’t expect us to agree here either. I want one organization with all the top twenty talent and you do not. Fair enough.
The awesome thing is that the UFC is actually going to become what I want it to be – then we’ll see if I’m right or wrong.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
We won’t see anything. The sport isn’t going to collapse whether or not Zuffa owns the whole world or not. We still won’t know if things would have gone better or worse with the alternatives.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
LOL.
Fair enough. We can also conjecture that four separate NFL’s would be better than the one we have or that Texas would’ve won a college football playoff last year, but I don’t think Goodell or Florida fans are missing much sleep over the issue.
Zuffa’s going to own the whole world, Mike. Admit it. It feels good. And because they will, we’ll see if they do what people fear and start fucking fighters and run the sport into the ground.
I don’t think they will.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Zuffa will never completely control the world of MMA.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Top twenty fighters in every weight class, give or take a few – think Warren Moon in the CFL.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
They will control the world of MMA that matters...
That’s all that counts
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
I think that’s already the case.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Aug 6, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fedor's fans would be wrong
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 6, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
They usually are
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
Florida would have beat Texas down.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Pfft
The Utah Utes would’ve smashed all.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Go Mountain West!
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
God, please let Air Force go on a run this year.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
They will...
They will run right down the toilet. Ever since Fishe DeBarry left…. they are a lost cause.
No further comments on Bruce Wayne.
by Gunslinger20 on Aug 6, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
lol...
OMG… you didn’t just say that Florida would have beat Texas down…. probably best not to get into a discussion of college football.
No further comments on Bruce Wayne.
by Gunslinger20 on Aug 6, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Texas was overrated.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Time for a Kid Nate poll:
Is JackO the most naive poster on bloodyelbow.com?
1) Yes
by Foxskinrug on Aug 6, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The only way Strikeforce signed Fedor
was by basically selling half of the company to Vadim!
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
dana should do what he thinks is best..he has so far and look at ufc now… how about you guys who thinks he is doing everything wrong start up your own fight club.. another m1 maybe
I hope this ends up on Dana's background on his computer...
<img src=“”http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g17/jayshaw638/?action=view¤t=chickenhawk_400_02_4_1.jpg" target="_blank">
"/>
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 6, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Right now Zuffa is in discussions with EA for the WEC and using Zuffa’s distribution channel for their MMA game.
If this deal gets done EA will be out of the entire equation… divide and conquer.
by mmalogic on Aug 6, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Oh, please let this happen – a good quality game engine + tiny fighters could = awesome.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I want double flying knees. That’s all I’m saying.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats a damn clever way to avoid the whole raise the payscale issue.
Just cut out a couple of Strikeforce’s legs while attaching them to the Zuffa freak-o-nature. Let Strikeforce collapse on their own.
by Foxskinrug on Aug 6, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
mmalogic is back
After his “guaranteed , Fedor will sign with the UFC” another prediction?
Actually...
He guaranteed that Fedor’s next fight will be with the UFC. Lemme check my watch. Nope Fedor hasn’t fought yet.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 6, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It still doesn’t hurt his credibility. Zuffa made an offer almost nobody thought he would turn down. mmalogic has been right on many other things.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 6, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Get it right, you very suspicious poster who only joined recently and has bad English come and go, he said “100% Fedro’s next fight would be in the UFC.”
Fedro hasn’t fought yet, nobody has announced who Fedro is supposed to fight.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
After reading some of his posts,
I think JackO left two “F’s” of his SN when he made it
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 6, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Check out Russian Bomber on the UG, same join date, 7/28/09, same bad English, spamming about the UFC should co-promote with M-1.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
bad english = I am not american
Co promotion= I challenge you to find one post of me saying that the UFC should co promote. You won’t find that. I am not idiot , I understand totally why the UFC would not copromote with M1 and I would not If I was in their position.
It isn’t they both have bad English, it is they both have the same patterns of bad English. Which often disappears. They both joined on the same date, Russian Bomber on the UG, JackO here. They both present things from the M-1 side.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
They probably think Zuffa will reward them somehow if they do some propaganda. At the end, they are just worthless fanboys and very poor fans of the sport.
Says the guy that thinks the WEC isn’t successful.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
The WEC is not successful. That’s just a fact. I like their shows but I am being honest.
The UFC is successful, the WEC isn’t. The WEC is all but mainstream. And if you think that making a game about the WEC would be big, you are wrong.
They’re both successful. The WEC makes money and puts on great fights. It’s also home to the majority of the talent at 145 lb AND 135 lb.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
They have good talents and maybe make money, I don’t know, but they are still small.
People barely speak aout the WEC, UFC fans in their majority don’t follow the WEC. They have small live gate and payroll. They have to keep the cost very low.
There is a reason Torres and Faber would like to be in the UFC, they are not paid what they deserve. WEC is great but not mainstream and not really successful.
Switch out ‘WEC’ for ‘Strikeforce’ and tell me that doesn’t still make sense.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
"they have good talents and maybe make money, I don’t know"
The thing is you shouldn’t be so affirmative if you don’t know, that’s the basic rule if you don’t want to look like a fool. Being small and being successful are two very different things.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
Not sure I agree with the “paid what they deserve” part. Are they underpaid? Probably, but Urijah Faber isn’t going to pull in the same amount of PPV’s Brock Lesnar or GSP do so they aren’t worth as much money. Nobody would even know who these guys are if not for Zuffa and they are doing a good job building them up, if they stick around long enough they will make enough to retire by the time they are too old to still fight.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
How is the WEC not succesful? It’s one of three major MMA corporations in the world operating in the black right now and gaining fans and sponsorships by the day, exactly what is unsuccesful about that?
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
WEC makes more money than strikeforce…
WEC has more top 10 fighters than strikeforce.
WEC has more pound for pound best fighters than strikeforce.
WEC is not even close to its ceiling of growth – while strikeforce looks to have thrown their last hail marry pass.
by mmalogic on Aug 6, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Is this a joke or are you trolling?
Strikforce won’t sell Tee-shirts, there we are even.
On another note.
logic, what do you say about Fedor saying that if the offer was really about 5 millions per fight he would have signed?
Mousasi was lied to about Zuffa’s offer…
Fedor’s brother says Vadim lies to Fedor.
Meltzer basically confirmed the 6 fight 30M contract. (if ppv’s bombed he would make 3m a fight and if they did well he would make over 5m)
What do you think happened?
by mmalogic on Aug 6, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Truthfully I think Fedor and M-1 are trying to set up a boxing like payday. It would explain why they are obsessed with co-promoting. They look at De La Hoya and Mayweather and then thiink if we can get into promoting in America and somehow luck out and arrange a fight with Couture we could be looking at a $50 million purse. Unrealistic, I know, but just the thought has got to be tempting.
by John Nash on Aug 6, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting...
I hadn’t considered this was all a setup to one ginormous payday for Fedro. I always thought it was about building a brand recognition for M-1’s stable of fighters and their international (read; USA) coverage.
I guess I haven’t thought about this enough. Great point.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I’ll be the first to make fun of him for the Bentley/3K comments…but he hasn’t been proven wrong yet. His 95% guarantee about fedor at UFC103 is in jeopardy, but he’s still fine on the Fedor-UFC comments.
BOOSH
He was saying that Fedor ’s management was just there for the money and I asked him why they did not take the UFC offer. He replied that they will but that it would last longer than excpected.
He did not see at all Fedor signing with Strikeforce.
Are you Russian Bomber on the UG?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe you. I didn’t see Fedor signing with SF, either, in the same way I don’t see Albert Pujols signing with a AAA team.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
SHHH about
Pujols. If he leaves St. Lou I am done with baseball.
I can totally understand the sentiment.
Albert Pujols is a god. When we lost AROD it hurt pretty badly, but I honestly think it would be nothing compared to losing Albert.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
So will Fedor, Babalu, and Mousasi fight in the LW, FW, or BW divisions?
More like, how awesome would it be if the WEC + the other promotions in EA Sports MMA are all in one game. =)
no actually… if the deal gets done they wont even be in the game.
Sucks for Randy, Fedor and anyone else who had backend points on the deal.
by mmalogic on Aug 6, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They would pass on Couture and all the others best to promote the WEC who is quite cheap?
Strikeforce is already bigger than the WEC. I doubt what you say. You have been wrong a lot of time lately.
Zuffa distribution channel? They are going to sell games in casino or UFC events?
EA wants to be a big player and to sell a lot of copies. I don’t think that making a WEC game will make them a profit.
Maybe if Zuffa promises them the next UFC rights when they are up.
Zuffa owns the mma paying audience and viewing audience. which avenue would an MMA game sell more?
by mmalogic on Aug 6, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah…
Affliction is a closer comparison as they want to sell their tangible product to this market. They could have made a deal with striekforce for ALOT less and they hate Zuffa – so it just shows which distribution channel matters in this industry
Out of subject.
Affliciton wen back to the UFC, not the WEC. If the UFC proposed them to be only sponsor of the WEC they would have laugh as WEC mean less than Strikeforce.
The Wec is nothing compared to the UFC. A WEC game would be nothing like a UFC game. Nothing.
Zuffa owns UFC and WEC.
UFC is popular and successful, WEC isn’t.
EA wants UFC rights not WEC. As simple as that.
WEC isn't successful
Congratulations! You’ve successfully invalidated everything you have said or will say in the future. That is, if nothing else, impressive.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
WEC is successfull? Since when?
You are kidding yourself if you think that a WEC game would beat a game with all the non UFC fighters.
Wec is just less known and I seriously doubt that EA would accept to make a game about the WEC.
The WEC with Zuffa pushing it, would probably do better than any other MMA game, with anyone else pushing it forward.
If you can’t see that, you’re not thinking very clearly.
Zuffa knows how to market things better than anyone else in this industry, that is a fact.
I don’t think that the WEC is more known that Strikeforce, as Strikeforce is bigger , especially if they land on CBS as expected.
And you forget Japan. They are crazy about videogames in that country. And Europe. Nobody know WEC outside USA.
Taking those into account, WEC is still bigger than Strikeforce. They get bigger spikes and more overall hits. However, based on your inability to even understand how American business and legal systems work, I doubt you will figure out how to look at the spikes and volume and drawing accurate conclusions.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
You’re wrong about Strikeforce and it doesn’t matter how popular the WEC is by itself.
It matters how well Zuffa is at getting people to buy shit.
Why did Affliction go back to Zuffa? because besides not knowing how to promote MMA, sponsoring fighters in every org in the world that isn’t Zuffa was not as profitable as sponsoring fighters with Zuffa.
If the EA game is WEC, there will be ads on every UFC PPV, every UFC show, every WEC show, every time zuffa goes anywhere they will be pushing it.
The others guys can’t even push their own fights, how the hell can you expect them to sell a video game on top of that.
The advertizing for the WEC in UFC shows does not lead people to watch the WEC. Else the WEC would already have done PPV.
People are buying the UFC game over the WEC game any day. The only room available is popular fighters who are not in the UFC game.
WEC has been in massive
upheaval for the last 12-18 months. Decapitated title pictures, altered weight divisions and all of the general MMA chaos has not done them any favors.
They’re reorganizing, essentially, and they’ve more than held their own along the way. I’d say it’s been impressive.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
EA Sports will choose WEC. A few reasons:
1. The cost of production will be a lot cheaper. The WEC can get all the fighters together and do all the leg work. It’s much easier then piecing it together the way EA was going to do it before.
2. EA will be able to use Zuffa’s mailing list and advertising capacity to sell the game.
3. MOST IMPORTANT…. EA will do a better job at the game and try to get the UFC contract when it is up with THQ. This is the perfect “in” for EA.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 6, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You keep trying to kick that football.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Hey you two!
Don’t make me come back there! I’ll turn this car around…..
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
Prarie Home Companion
had a pretty good song that featured that scenario.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
You boys like Mexico?!?!
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 6, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It’s an awesome event, too.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
So where is your fanpost about it? You do one for every other single promotion that you think not enough people are paying attention to. Oh wait, it is Zuffa affiliated.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 6, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think this is appropriate for Strikeforce's current predicament...
"He built his whole reputation (as a) waffle house chef. They've been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes." - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Damon O. on Aug 6, 2009 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
This is going to kill Strikeforce.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure Dana will let Coker wax his Ferrari and shine his Crocodile-skin loafers when SF goes under.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 6, 2009 5:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cutthroat Business 101 here folks, Dana is a master at kicking ass and taking names, weather people like him or not.
Thats the great thing about the UFC, they have held such a high standard for so long by, for example, not letting networks control production of the UFC, and blocking a network deal being done (even though that is not the case now apparently), they’ll be able to sweeten a deal with anyone if they need to make something happen fast. Believe me, the UFC will be pulling out the big guns, expect them to pull some shit no one saw coming…
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 6, 2009 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Is it just me ... or...
IS the Dana/UFC vs. Fedor/SF/M1/Dream/Showtime a much more intriguing matchup than Fedor vs. Lesnar ??
LOL
I like it.. I like how the lines have been drawn in the sand and it’s time to go to war…
Not really. There’s some doubt as to who would win the Lesnar/Fedor match up.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Aug 6, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It's a compelling matchup,
no question about it. I still enjoy watching the gears of the industry turn. It seems we’re always watching massive shifts in the landscape. It never gets old.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I need someone to explain to me how one org without a fighter union is a good idea.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
Explain to me about how a fighters union forms without one org.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 6, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Same thing I was driving at.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 6, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The whole thing is a non-issue, as long as the KOTR, VFC, and every other small-time local MMA production is around, the UFC would have no reason to honor a fighter’s union or even go into talks with them. However if it is deemed that they have a monopoly on the MMA market, the government will intervene and make a union a necessity.
by Screwface on Aug 6, 2009 5:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Um, kind of.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I need someone to explain to me how one org WITH a fighter union is a BAD idea.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 6, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A fighter union would hurt fighters, they would have no say in how the deals gets done, and a top level fighters would lose more money, and it would be hard as hell to cut bad fighters, and sign new talent.
If the fighters wanted a union, there would be one.
Wow, spoken like a true capitalist. The NFLPA, MLBPA, NBAPA and NHLPA and their members would strongly disagree with your assertion. The only thing a player’s association does is ensure you have a base salary and have basic things like insurance, a pension and representation when entering into negotiations.
by Screwface on Aug 6, 2009 5:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s not Dana’s job to make a union.
Find one industry in the history of the world where management started a union.
IF Zuffa takes over, and IF they start being assholes, then the fighters would have to unionize and go to battle, but it’s not up to Zuffa to start the union. If it’s needed, it will appear.
sure, and want to be blackballed by the ufc! He only has to keep the top guys happy because no one cares about the rest of em
Won’t work. If he blackballs enough fighters, a secondary organization can show up and sign all those fighters for pocket change, because they can’t go back to the UFC. With fighters fighting at way less than market, they can directly challenge the UFC. Dana and company are too canny to allow such an obvious method of challenging the UFC. Thats why they continue to increase payouts, in spite of the fact that there are no other organizations capable of paying out comparable money.
not the top guys
he can pay them enough to stay out and get rid of the undercard guys who speak up but no one outside of the internet nerds hard cores know.
How is it a bad idea ???
What have unions done for other major franchise sports ? They dont prevent negotiations.. If you dont like their rules you dont play in that org.. Pretty much most of the successful franchises in Sports are run in the exact same manner..
You have to look at it like this.. The fighters & their management are the teams.. They’re the suboutlets.. The UFC is the franchise.. No different than NFL, NBA, MLB NHL etc.. There will always be feeder orgs and minor leagues.. but there need only be one major league.. So we wont have to deal with the “what if’s” & the “who’s better”…
I'm arguin they should.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
And I’m asking why they should ???
What has a union “really” done in franchise sports history ??? Nothing of significance that would alter the outcome of a negotiation between owner and franchise or owner and player for that matter ??
A union is fighting for equal rights across the board.. But in reality not everything is equal.. Union’s don’t prevent deals from being done and dont protect too much in the sporting world, regardless of what you’re lead to believe..
You want MMA to go on strike because Tim Sylvia wont be asked back into the UFC ??? lol See where I’m getting at ??
Haha, yeah, guaranteed contracts and minimum salaries suck.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
What has a union done?
Ask Donald Fehr if players in MLB are better off than they were since he took over the Union.
BOOSH
MLB players got screwed for a long, long, long time before they unionized.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly my point
Am I missing something here, or does MMAuthority sound like he’s arguing that unions have never done anything?
If he is, than I disagree with him and agree with you.
BOOSH
would a union be good at this point before there is one single mainstay for all the fighters, like the UFC for say, and not a dozen other promotions going around holding top flight, or semi elite fighters from being together
"I pulled my groin"..."I dont care, hit him with your groin".....GSP/Alves Final Round
And Assumptions run rampant..
But you dont see or hear anyone really crying foul ball either when it comes to money ??
MLB has a long history of in and out corruption .. I’m arguing that fighters have guaranteed contracts.. If they dont perform up to standards they get cut.. How is it any different than in any other sport ?? If they perform, they’ll get their entire contract..
There is already an established “minimum salary”.. They pay model is based on a salary plus commision basically..They get a base (in this case minimum) and then they get a commision (performance incentives) plus other discretionary bonuses awarded outside of base salary and win bonus.. It’s pay model is based around performance incentives basically… It keeps the player honest in this case.. Otherwise what’s the incentive to want to win ?? Dont give me honor.. It gets pretty lackadaisical if there is no incentive to earn or work..
Thats like being a salesman on a flat salary.. Do you think he outsell’s the guy that is on pure commision ?? I doubt it very much.. What does it matter to him ?? He is getting his money either way.. so hey let’s take a couple days off here and there and not show up to work either.. But the guy that “has” to earn his pay and gets rewarded based on performance shows up to work “everyday”…
The UFC is no different.. regardless of popular belief…
In the contract they have a base salary guarantee.. If they get cut before the total fights are not serviced, they are still owed and paid the remainder of the base salary… It’s not like the UFC cut you and you get nothing.. It’s unethical for one and the UFC would not be allowed to condone that type of business practice when dealing with the federal athletic commisions…
Do you have some sort of proof or link? I’ve never heard this.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Either have I, and I don’t believe it’s true. It’s like the NFL, you can be cut at any time and not paid the remainder of your contract, that’s why signing bonuses are so important in the NFL and when you hear a new contract announced you hear two different amounts reported- the guaranteed money (what matters) and the total value of the contract (an amount of money that player will never receive).
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
Exactly my point.. You can be paid astronomically for services never rendered….
You do know that when Eli Manning gets a contract for 97.5 million dollars he is not “guaranteed” 97.5 million dollars right ?? He’ll get a base salary and then the rest of that contract is with his added performance incentives.. He has to meet certain criteria to meet all demands and thats what he “stands” to make.. If he gets hurt or injured and released he’ll still get his base salary.. But nowhere near the 97.5 mark… Just common sense contract services…
NFL doesn’t have guaranteed contracts. I never said they did.
MLB and NBA? You give Kevin Garnett $100 million, then Kevin Garnett is getting $100 million.
BOOSH
Wrong
Thats the total amount “with” incentives"…
Has nothing to do with guarantee’s.. No one is guaranteed 100 million in any sport.. That’s a number used as “total earning potential” .. If KG doesnt get to the All-star team, doesnt make it to the NBA all first team & doesnt lead the league in some catagory of the owners choosing, he wont be getting that full 100 million.. They are paid off of performance incentives..
I’ve many friends in the NBA & NFL from college that I have helped during negotiations..
....Really? If you're guaranteed 90 mil without incentives, you're getting that.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
No one is guaranteed 100 million in any sport..
That’s not true, in baseball the player receives every penny of their contract even if they get hurt in the first year and never play again.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 6, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, there are very few avenues to achieve
nullification of financial commitment from the team to the player. But it doesn’t work the other way around.
Essentially, you’re purchasing an exclusive option for a player. Not a real contract, at least in the sense most of us consider a contract to be binding both ways.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
right
but in those leagues you have teams competing for athletes which drives up their salaries. Here its whatever dana thinks your worth.
Thank you.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 6, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
thats not the point
the point is now you are giving fighters less options when it comes to where to fight. The UFC has the best fighters and a lot of guys want to be there… but its good in contract negotiations (if you want to protect your rights as an employee) to have other options as fedor just demonstrated.
Fedor didn’t demonstrate anything of the sort. He demonstrated how little he cares about money and how little he cares about fighting top competition. That’s it.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
he showed that by having a choice in the matter a fighter can choose not to put up with Dana’s shit.
there are people who care about other things besides money. Say, the success of your side business, doing something good for your community, working for someone you like, protecting his record (happens in sports all the time)… for normal people its things like being close to your family, working for a good boss, 401k…
And his buddy Musasi showed that if you’re manager is an asshole that lies to you, you’d probably be better off if you only had the UFC contract to take, because you wouldn’t be getting screwed.
by Phildo on Aug 6, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fedor can fire his management at anypoint so he is only swindling himself, unless he really is blinded by finklestink, the way that there are reports not that Gegard Mousasi was misled by M-1 about the deal UFC offered him
"I pulled my groin"..."I dont care, hit him with your groin".....GSP/Alves Final Round
attn scott coker: your milkshake is in trouble
by woooburn on Aug 6, 2009 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
That was an incredible movie.
Daniel Day Lewis is unbelievable.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
The question is
If you are Coker what do you do? Do you keep your mouth shut, do you play to Dana’s ego and sweet talk him in the media, or do you go balls out and go to war with him and run your mouth any chance you get?
If you’re Coker, you make sure your affairs are in order and start looking for a nice suit.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
When life gives you lemons, burn them.
Keep firing Assholes!
Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
When God gives you lemons, FIND A BETTER GOD
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 6, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
And make as much money as you can in the meantime. Then you dissapear for about 10 years and come back with some stupid event like YAMMA.
Watching el Dana pick on other promoters is a lot of fun.
Here is a video of a killer whale eating a seal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNnx_X5ue2c
Keep firing Assholes!
Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
I dont understand if the consensus aditude is that the UFC should rule the world. Why do hardcores get offended when people use the term Ultimate fighting.
Because you don’t watch NFL, you watch football, you don’t watch MLB you watch baseball, etc, etc…
by Screwface on Aug 6, 2009 6:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But more importantly it you are talking about combat sports it’s not WBA, it’s boxing.
by Screwface on Aug 6, 2009 6:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But you don’t call up your buddies to head to the park and play some NFL. Personally, I don’t have much grief with the term Ultimate Fighting and I doubt it is going anywhere.
Yeah, but it’s usually at the bar with about 10 busch lights in me.
And I understand that the WBA is not the only boxing authority, I was using it as an example.
I don’t get uptight about people calling it ultimate fighting, but I can generally gauge where their knowledge of the sport is, based on whether or not they call it such.
by Screwface on Aug 6, 2009 8:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My point is if someone uses the term Ultimate fighting ,their either a total fan boy or don’t have a complete understanding of the sport. But it seems like the comments I have been reading latley would suggest that it is actually appropriate .I love watching MMA and there is so much out there besides UFC and WEC. We have Senguku ,Dream,hd net,Strikeforce, etc. And the more the MMA that I can watch the better I dont care about rankings ,belts or P4P status, I just want to see entertaining fights. The UFC is not in a position where they can put on fights every week nor do I think they will ever be accepted in Japan What would happen to that market if the UFC was the only show in town? Not mention in a free market competition is almost always good .
Just as an FYI, MMA was coined to describe worked fights by a Professional Wrestler.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 6, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A league is not a monopoly?
There seems to be a group arguing that leagues like MLB and NLF is not a monopoly and that they are somehow “competing against” each other unlike the UFC. That is false. The leagues are monopolies. The only competition among them are in the sport sense, not the business sense.
Leagues are collectives that are in it to help themselves grow as a group. Each team has its own “territory” that no other team can infringe upon. Can a team decide to move onto another team’s “territory” to compete for the fans? For example, the SF Giants are fighting the Oakland A’s move to San Jose because they consider San Jose their territory. In pure competition, there would be no salary cap and no territories. Teams can come and go as they please and compete for fans without any restrictions. The best teams would destroy the weakest teams in revenue if left to their own devices, but that is just in terms of wins. Teams do not compete with each other directly for revenue. They share revenues instead! The league share revenues with each team and the home team share revenues with the away team. The only competition for business for sports league are other sports league.
The UFC is no different than a sports league in that sense.
by cyph on Aug 6, 2009 7:23 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Truthfully I think Fedor and M-1 are trying to set up a boxing like payday. It would explain why they are obsessed with co-promoting. They look at De La Hoya and Mayweather and then thiink if we can get into promoting in America and somehow luck out and arrange a fight with Couture we could be looking at a $50 million purse. Unrealistic, I know, but just the thought has got to be tempting.
Of course he’s going to say that. He’s a promoter.. He’s going to go on and say what he’s going to say, but we’ve been in business a long time and I think we know how to operate a business and forged a relationship with Ken (Hershman) and Showtime and M-1. I feel confident that we’re going to have some great big shows with Fedor.
"Under the current circumstances, is anybody surprised? …I don’t think so."
Don't underestimate the competition Scott....Don't do it.
"He built his whole reputation (as a) waffle house chef. They've been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes." - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
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