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The Correct Way to Use Fedor Emelianenko in Strikeforce

Fedor-emelianenko_mediumI've slowly come to terms with the fact that I won't be watching Fedor fight in the UFC any time soon.  So now what is bothering me most is the idea that Strikeforce wants to build up to a Fedor/Overeem pay-per-view fight.  While I openly admit that Overeem is probably the toughest fight for Fedor on the Strikeforce roster I just think there is a better way to build to a PPV event that gets Fedor and his opponent some drawing power and hopefully makes for a must see event.

The fight they should be building to is Fedor vs. Brett Rogers.  Allow me to play fantasy matchmaker for a few minutes here:

Step 1: Book Fedor vs. Overeem ASAP and call it a champion vs. champion fight on Showtime.  Even if you build him a little bit I don't think Overeem has near the potential drawing power of a guy like Rogers who is big on charisma and has a GREAT personal story to use to hype an event, so get Alistair out of the way now.  At the same time put together a Brett Rogers vs. Bobby Lashley fight.  Two undefeated guys with considerable charisma and looks means that if somehow Lashley wins you're not out of a marketable future.

Step 2: Fedor vs. Werdum on CBS with a Gina Carano fight to be your selling point.  Again, you're increasing Fedor's visibility with a fight he is probably going to win.  The winner of the Rogers/Lashley fight should be booked against Andrei Arlovski on the same card.

Step 3:  Hopefully Brett Rogers came out as your challenger for Fedor's third Strikeforce fight and the first event on PPV.  If so you talk about his past, his day jobs, his family, how this is his chance to provide for them bigtime...etc  You sell him as the guy fans should want to win.  The hard working undefeated American vs. the unbeatable Russian.  If it's Arlovski you play up the fact that he was winning the first fight and earned his rematch.  If somehow it's Lashley that is an easy sell too, and he'd have actually earned his shot.  Also, you've built up a few fights worth of footage to use in selling the PPV fight (something you don't actually have now).

Right now what Strikeforce needs to work toward is a PPV main event that will sell.  This means you don't worry about what will be the most competitive fight.  The endgame is a fight that makes people pay money to watch it.  Alistair Overeem probably isn't that guy in the end and Fabricio Werdum certainly isn't.  The idea should be to build to hopefully Brett Rogers and if not your fallback of Arlovski or Lashley can still sell an event.

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For those keeping count...

this is my FIRST post about Fedor in Strikeforce

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 5, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If everything you want to happen happens, do you think they’ll crack… hell… 110k buys?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Aug 5, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They could hit 150-200k. Fedor was doing 100k in Affliction with zero television. They’ll have CBS and Showtime to help.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve actually heard a lot of doubt as to whether either Affliction card did 100k.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Aug 5, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They’re in the 80-100k range. I think the second one actually did 100k.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least SF might be able to make money at 150K buys, Affliction needed to hit twice that to not be in the red.

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kind of depends how much they pay Fedor AND what his opponents get – now that Affliction set the bar of Fedor’s opponent’s pay at $800,000 and over a million just to show, nobody’s taking that fight for less than $500,000. Rogers wanted Tim’s salary.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Aug 5, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

On network TV they can make up the difference in sponsorship money, they aren’t gonna pay that much for an opponent for Fedor, I’d bet $200-300K tops.

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you think they can double it? I mean, maybe, but you know that every single person that ordered an Affliction card had ordered at least one UFC card with either Tim or AA (or, hell, both).

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Aug 5, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

SF doesn’t need to double it, they aren’t paying Matt Linldland $250K or Tim Sylvia $800K.

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don’t get me wrong, it’d be nice, but it’s not a necessity if they keep the rest of their payroll in order.

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Read above sir – they’re going to HAVE to pay WHOEVER fights Fedor a boatload.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Aug 5, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Says you

I disagree. Do you really think they are gonna pay Brett Rogers 25x what he’s been making when he’s already under contract?

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he’ll demand it. He’ll say ’I’m not fighting a guy that’s getting paid more than double what I am’. And Strikeforce is fucked if he does. They don’t have other opponents lined up. They’ll have to either bench Fedor or pay Rogers. I think they’ll pay Rogers and end up regretting it when they hang the ‘closed’ sign outside their HQ in a year and a half or so.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Aug 5, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What makes Fedor so f’ing special? Did Nick Diaz refuse to fight Frank Shamrock because he was making a ton more money? Did Jardine refuse to fight Rampage? If I’m Scott Coker I say “OK Brett, if you prefer to go back to Sam’s Club and make $10 an hour instead of taking $150,000 for one fight then go ahead, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.”

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually all Zuffa fighters who fight as a main event like jardine, fitch, etc… make way more than what they negotiated on their contract.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well sure

I realize that, but Rampage probably still made 3-5 times more than Jardine did.

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

your right… but Jardine made more than 5 times what rogers will make on his current deal.

So either way Fedors opponents will either have to be paid more or they will fight lesser comp to complete their contracts.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

But do you agree that they won’t make the ridiculous amounts they made in Affliction?

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem is that for the “Fedor Cards” there are too many hands in the cookie jar.

M-1 gets a piece. Showtime/CBS gets a piece. And then Strikeforce gets a piece.

This is why co-promotion (and with other reasons) is bad. Too many “managers” and not enough fighters getting the money.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fuck M-1

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never knew Subo had a twin.

by Sokonojudo on Aug 5, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a twin but we do seem to see eye to eye quite a bit. It’s odd that he’s always arguing with Fagan.

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah they want to turn this into the boxing model but the math doesnt work in the end.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neither does the risk. In boxing, you can protect a fighter. Everybody in MMA loses. So when you start handing out big contracts for every title fight, you run the risk of paying everybody tons of money once the title can’t stay in the hands of one fighter very long.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In boxing, they split the gate+PPV revenue based on percentages. They don’t really have high guarantees.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I think Rogers will have to be paid over 400k

350k you can make the case either way… but for 200k I would think he or his manager is making a big mistake.

IF he loses to Fedor he will almost never make that kind of money again. If he completes his contract undefeated he’ll have a 7 figure contract guaranteed.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess the main question is how many fights are on his current deal? The more fights he has left the less they have to pay.

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

one fight left

by Sokonojudo on Aug 5, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hold on, one fight?

That changes everything. If he wins, he can hold out for HUGE money from Strikeforce, or take a giant Zuffa offer.

So yes, he’ll have to be paid probably in excess of 500k to make it worth his while.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UFC can offer him after PPV Buys, $1 Million per fight.

If he takes it, the UFC overpaid for him, but took away a contender from Strikeforce.

If he takes the Strikeforce offer, then still overpaid for him, and suffer financially.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

win-win

Isn’t it a beautiful concept.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well that changes everything

If that’s true then SF is fucked.

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was before Arlovski so it's one
MMAFighting.com: Where are you at with your Strikeforce contract right now? How many fights do you have left on it?

Brett Rogers: Right now, if I’m understanding right, I have two more fights. So hopefully I can win those two and get a larger contract with them, because I know Strikeforce is going to be around for quite some time now. I can’t see them flopping. For one, they’re very professional. It’s not going to get any better than Showtime, possibly CBS in the future, (and) pay per view events. It’s only going to get better. The future holds a lot.

by Sokonojudo on Aug 5, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All the more reason that Rogers-Fedor right now is the way to go. If he loses, UFC’s demand for him diminishes. If he wins, the Strikeforce is pretty much fucked anyway.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A way out would be the old Zuffa, “you’re not fighting until you sign an extension,” and make sure the extension has huge payments for possible Fedor fights with huge amounts if you beat Fedor.

But that would be hard because it might be worth it to wait till the last day of your contract, fight a scrub, then go to uncle Dana and get paid.

by Phildo on Aug 5, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Especially because a yearlong holdout is just as good to the UFC as them signing him now.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it’s the one place i think managers have been failing the most lately.

A 4 fight, 2 year deal sounds good on paper, but it’s hard to build momentum if you don’t fight very often, and if you do fight often they have your balls.

by Phildo on Aug 5, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dana White can do that because they are going to offer more money then anybody else. At least anybody else who will be in business in a year.

Doesn’t work when you are the small company….

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Rogers were to beat Fedor I think Dana would have an orgasm, and then he’d buy Rogers 5 houses and put a signed picture of him on his desk with the slogan FUCK YOU CRAZY RUSSIANS

by Sokonojudo on Aug 5, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As long as he’s under contract I’m not sure he’s in a position to demand anything . They might give him a bonus but definitely not the ridiculous Affliction paydays . If he’ll cry about the Affliction paydays they’ll just tell him to look at what happened to Affliction …

by JoelMan on Aug 6, 2009 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No sane manager would allow his fighter on his current contract fight fedor without renegotiating the purse.

If the fighter loses his value disappears conversely if the fighter fulfills his contract without losing there is big money for him.

So either way strikeforce has to either pay now to make the fight or pay later.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

Affliction kind of broke the realistic fight purse thing with Fedor. Now if you fight him you get to demand a crazy amount of money.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 5, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

This is bad for Strikeforce. If you’re Rogers or AO you can basically hold out since you know they don’t have anyone else to fight Fedor.

by Sokonojudo on Aug 5, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alistair Overeem has been holding out this whole time… he will be hand picking his opponents utill his contract is up and he can negotiate with Zuffa.

Unless strikeforce ups the ante I dont see any of them running to fight Fedor in striekforce.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Do you think his hand injury is legit? Or was he not offered enough money?

What a lot of people don’t realize is that Zuffa has the upper hand here. They either steal the talent away or force Strikeforce to raise their salaries beyond what they can afford. Especially with M-1’s hand in the cookie jar….

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zuffa is at defcon 3…

Everyone has 2 words painted on their chests:

“JUST BLEED”!

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They hired Tom Lawlor?

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 5, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can’t see where this is coming from , you can demand whatever u want but no one guarantees you’ll get it . Just because Affliction went crazy doesn’t mean the UFC or StrikeForce will go crazy and the fighters should know it . BTW Affliction paid ridiculous money regardless of fighting Fedor , I think AA made about a million for fighting Rothwell and Lindland got 250 . This is not the money StrikeForce is going to pay if they’re smart .

by JoelMan on Aug 6, 2009 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well sure, they can renegotiate, that doesn’t mean they are gonna pay Brett Rogers $500K for one fight. If they gave him a raise to $100,000 he’d make more for one fight than he has his entire career.

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well that’s for him to decide… he doesnt have to take the fedor fight.

He has to weigh what he would be worth finishing his contract undefeated versus fighting fedor…

If an extra 100k now makes more sense then fighting easier competition and completing his contract then he’ll take it. but something tells me strikeforce will have to cough up alot more than that seeing as how Zuffa is letting it be known that certain fighters in strikeforce who finish their contracts without losing have a sweatheart deal waiting for them :)

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

This is just a hunch

But this guy probably doesn’t have a lot of money. Does he have kids? I thought I heard he did. He didn’t fight for a year because of the ExC mess. He had to beg for his job back changing tires at Sam’s Club. Is he in a position to turn down a guaranteed 6-figure payday?

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rogers made $40,000 for fighting Abongo Humphrey. You have to figure he made at least that (probably more) for beating Arlovski. I’d turn down an initial low six-figure salary if I could potentially get a 4-500k fight for Fedor in the future.

by Sokonojudo on Aug 5, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there are risks to both paths and he probably knows better than me whats best for him…

All I am saying is he has another path to fighting Fedor and so does any other fighter there.

Zuffa has a sweat heart deal waiting for them and they all know by now.

So now its up to them which path they want to take.

It aint easy competing with Zuffa when you have to renegotiate with the fighters you already have on contract… forget about when they become free agents.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Logic, buddy...

Its sweetheart and sweet…. I don’t think hearts can sweat and i don’t think that would be considered a term of endearment.

No further comments on Bruce Wayne.

by Gunslinger20 on Aug 5, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you’re right.

by mmalogic on Aug 6, 2009 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really. When has “not fighting Fedor” ever been a ticket to success? At least if you do fight Fedor, you have a chance of winning and cashing in bigtime.

Holding out for more only works if they have no other options. They don’t have any other options if they want this all to work out, but I don’t know if Strikeforce knows that.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not so sure your first statement is true. Let’s say Rogers beats Fedor, does he have the name value to be recognized by fans, or will he just be “the guy that beat that one Russian dude.”

To the hardcores, he’ll be a huge name, and I’m sure Dana would have no problem paying him a large salary, but I don’t think a win over Fedor automatically guarantees you a huge payday.

I’ve had many friends watch MMA with me, even the shows on CBS that Rogers participated in, and when we saw him on Strikeforce in June, they had no idea who he was.

I think the hardcores would demand Rogers get a huge money, but to the casual fan, I’m not so sure he has the recognizable image to warrant it….similar to Fedor right now.

Just my two pennies.

Contributing writer for MMA-Analyst.com

by Joe Schmitt on Aug 5, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And one other thing

Don’t call me sir.

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am under the impression that M1 knows the correct way to “use” Fedor

by crinow on Aug 5, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They sure are waiting a long time to break out this master plan and cash in on it.

by Phildo on Aug 5, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

^ This.

Contributing writer for MMA-Analyst.com

by Joe Schmitt on Aug 5, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Business pop quiz:

You have an unbeatable Russian monster with questionable ties and a friendship with Vladimir Putin. Do you build to:

a) a match with a dutch fighter who doesn’t even have a google trends ranking because nobody ever searches him and who nobody knows in the U.S. besides internet fans; or

b) an undefeated heavyweight with a compelling story coming off a 15 second KO win over a former UFC champion.

Outsider vs. Outsider never draws. Overeem may be Strikeforce’s champion, but he’s still an unknown. Rogers is the fight to build to.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Rogers is definitely the fight to build to, but man, he’s still very green. Outside of Arlovski, who’s chin has always been suspect, he still has a lot of unanswered questions about his skillset, namely his ground game.

Contributing writer for MMA-Analyst.com

by Joe Schmitt on Aug 5, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn’t be so sure Rogers would beat Lashley. We haven’t seen any of his ground game, and a strong wrestler may be all it takes to beat him.

by michaelgaryscott on Aug 5, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's the point...

in the end you have a fight that you can sell. If Lashley wins that is just fine. Fedor/Lashley will sell PPV’s too. Plus he will have EARNED the fight in this scenario.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 5, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Takes too long. Throw Rogers at him and lashley gets winner.

A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who

by thetakeover on Aug 5, 2009 7:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Plus, I don’t think Lashley would take a fight with Brett Rogers at this stage of his career. He isn’t even signed with Strikeforce.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

but he’d sign with Strikeforce if they offered him any sort of money.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 5, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's the biggest problem with this plan

We’ll have to get someone else to build up Rogers. Dave Herman?

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 5, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shane Del Rosario?

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shane Del Rosario is a tough fight for anyone.

by Nick Thomas on Aug 5, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right...

it’s a fine rematch that leads somewhere

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 5, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think this is a good bet, especially because if Overeem beats Fedor, he can probably be marketed much like Fedor, as the badass outsider. He doesn’t have the same record, but he’s bigger, more badass looking, and if he beats Fedor, it’ll probably be in exciting fashion. Then you can rematch him vs. Werdum, and follow the same gameplan.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 6:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Right...

the point here is that this makes for way less bad outcomes. Fedor/Overeem as your final ending point is very probably a ball drop. Outsider vs. Outsider (as Rome put it) and two guys with very little name value (Overeem is basically zero name value)

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 5, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really think Overeem is a future superstar, but they can’t put him up against Fedor on PPV before he builds up his name recognition toward becoming a superstar. Fedor/Overeem vs. Rogers/Lashley is almost certainly the best bet for PPV success.

What this really shows though is how huge a gamble this whole thing is for Strikeforce. They’re basically screwed if Werdum beats any of the PPV hopefuls, if the PPV matchup ends as Overeem/Arlovski, or any of a number of other fuckups. Their lack of depth is a huge problem.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Valuable link: Google trends for Rogers and Overeem in the United States.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=Alistair+Overeem%2C+Brett+Rogers&ctab=0&geo=us&date=all&sort=0

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Plug Fedor into that graph and you get an idea of how much more marketable he is than those two. But then plug Frank Mir (nevermind Lesnar) into the same graph and realize the challenges ahead for Strikeforce if they’re attempting to build any fight they can offer Fedor into something huge.

by kid_eh on Aug 5, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are limits to google trends, they tend to show strong numbers for big internet favorites. For example Pride had these great numbers going into its shows and then bombed on PPV. That’s what happened with Fedor. You can’t set a general rule, but they are useful. It’s worth knowing that there aren’t even enough searches for Overeem to justify a ranking.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the hardcore fans really lack a sense of what sells to the casual fans.

Overeem & Werdum are basically useless in terms of creating a big fight.

Werdum likely being on the undercard of the upcoming card doesn’t help matters.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

^ This.

To me, Werdum is a terrible opponent for Fedor. He’s basically Big Nog without the chin, and worse standup. I don’t even want to see that fight and I’d consider myself a “hardcore fan.”

Contributing writer for MMA-Analyst.com

by Joe Schmitt on Aug 5, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

int'resting..

andrei arlovski
1.00
  
fedor emelianenko
4.00
  
brock lesnar
16.0
  
chuck liddell
8.00

by pl4tinum on Aug 6, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

Dude I’m loving your ideas!! Forward to Coker, quick! This is UFC matchmaking right here ladies and gents. :)

If this were the way Coker were to start Fedor off I would be very happy indeed.

GSP: I pulled my groin.

Greg Jackson: I don't care Georges! HIT HIM WITH YOUR GROIN!

by xFenixKnightx on Aug 5, 2009 6:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree.

Rogers is the fight to build up to for sure. As much as I kinda want to see AA vs Fedor again, I figure it’s tough to market that without the Affliction highlight reel, and AA would have to win a few to erase that 15 second loss to Rogers. So the way Brent suggested seem the best way. Undefeated, blue collar American vs Mysterious Super Russian is a great sell. Even SF couldn’t fuck that up, right? Heck, play Eye of the Tiger during the hype trailers for all I care!

Of course, that’s provided Rogers and Fedor continue winning until that match.

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on Aug 5, 2009 6:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

They need to feed him Werdum, Rogers, or Overeem right away or fans will have a field day with attacking Strikeforce. And the guy who fights Fedor last on that list of 3 will need to have a worthy challenger in the meantime or people will say they are protecting him.

It’s an up hill journey….

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. And I think that Rogers has the quickest path to rehabilitation. That said, Overeem is not a big enough draw to hang a PPV on.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t even know they were trying to build to a PPV. However, I still believe that if you’re doing that, you build to the REMATCH.

I think that Rogers-Fedor can be sold right off the bat as the homegrown young upstart trying to defend his turf (and his spot) against the Outsider. He has been calling out Overeem (just like he called out Kimbo), and he can’t get his break. He knows that Fedor will jump ahead of him, so he steps up to face him. He probably loses.

HOWEVER, the path back to Fedor is a gauntlet. There’s Werdum or Monson, submission specialists. There’s Lashley, who has the wrestling base and the “big name.” And then there’s Arlovski, Overeem, Buentello, or Yvel, the kickboxers. If he can run that table, the shot against Fedor is compelling.

But in the meanwhile, I think Fedor can face Overeem, then Barnett in Japan on New Year’s Eve, then whoever is winning fights BEFORE Rogers getting that rematch, where he shows that he is ready for that rematch.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That looks like a much bigger gamble for me. Remember, you’re working with a three-fight time frame, so what you’re looking at is Fedor/Rogers, Fedor/somebody, Fedor/Rogers. Thats a fast rematch, unsellable if Rogers gets crushed in the first fight, which is very likely. You may try and squeeze in two rebound fights for Rogers in that time, perhaps then doing the Rogers/Lashley and Rogers/Arlovski matchups, but its still a risk. If Monson or Werdum or somebody else creeps in, Rogers is at a much higher risk of a loss. If Rogers loses in the rebound, Strikeforce is in real trouble.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is a gamble, but if you want a Plan B, it’s Bobby Lashley. Sign him to a long term deal, and have him fight every 8 weeks, whether Strikeforce, DREAM, or M-1 cards, with favorable matchmaking every step along the way. Put him against pro wrestlers and Ken Shamrock in Japan. Let him appear on TNA for the exposure, and have him wear a Strikeforce t-shirt. Do for him what EliteXC did for Kimbo, and then have Rogers call him out. From there, you make the Rogers-Lashley fight his big pre-PPV CBS fight, and whoever wins gets Fedor.

So for Rogers, it’s: Fedor, Buentello/Yvel (remember those guys?), Monson/Werdum, then Lashley
For Fedor its: Rogers, [fight in Japan, maybe Monson], Overeem, then Lashley/Rogers winner
For Overeem its: Werdum, Fedor, then maybe Arlovski
For Lashley, its: Cupcakes—————>Rogers, Fedor

And on PPV, hopefully people will likely care about Fedor vs. either The Black Lesnar or a rebuilt Rogers.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For mine...

Rogers loses to every one of those guys you matched him up with. He is green as grass, and those matchups are against crafty vets who will have watched the Arlovski fight and won’t go in with the same gameplan.

'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko

by Well Read Idiot on Aug 6, 2009 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brent and I were talking about this earlier. There are a MILLION things you can do to promote Rogers.

a) he works to put food on his kids’ table

b) got passed over for a Kimbo fight to protect kimbo

c) Was screwed over by Elite going down and almost ended up homeless

d) beat Andrei Arlovski in 20 seconds

e) he’s AMERICAN

f) he’s undefeated

g) he almost got to fight fedor, but affliction imploded

He is one of the only guys in Strikeforce that is a big potential draw and also a top 10 fighter. DONT BLOW IT

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 6:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The problem is that he’s black. Black dont sell ppv’s in MMA.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The UFC is about to change that.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No…

Rashad, Rampage and Kimbo Tuf thing is not to get black ppv buyers but the “wanna be black” market.

The white kids who buy the hip hop albums and the black clothing style. This is the money market.

There’s a way to get to this market and thats with getting the UFC in style with the “homeboys” and then the white kid “wannabe’s” spend the money bankrolling the “style/trend/product”.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

And that won’t boost PPV buys for black fighters?

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So it works out for Strikeforce/Rogers anyway.

Is the UFC ever going to make an actual attempt at getting a black fanbase? I figured that was the point of Rampage/Rashad, but you’re saying its not.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“working class black man” doesnt get a black fanbase nor the “wanna be black” white fanbase…

Zuffa will get the black fan base not because they buy ppv’s but because they set the trends for the “wanna be black white kids” who actually spend money.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But how? If the black fanbase sets the trends, they’re the opinion leaders, you can’t get them by drawing in the opinion followers.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look at which rappers and artists sell…

Its the Rampage and Kimbo types… not the goofy (blue collar) Brett Rogers type.

Rashad is the “athletic” black guy for the middle class black market.. which is a good market but they dont set trends.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But thats what I’m asking, is what their plan is for building an actual black fanbase. That of course assumes they don’t already have a large black fanbase, which I was under the impression was the case.

I’m not asking this in regards to Rogers or TUF, just as a general question in regards to how the UFC intends to continue its pursuit of world domination.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, you need the “hip hop” black fanbase because they set trends which the “wannabe white kids” then bankroll/subsidize.

If there were a way to give where this “hip hop” blacks could steal the ppv’s without it getting out of hand outside this market that would money for Zuffa.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In other words, Zuffa doesn’t really care too much about a large black fanbase because they’re all too damn broke or unwilling to buy their own PPVs?

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well that’s kind of harsh but…

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But…Brett Rogers is the Linear Iron Ring Heavyweight Champion…

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's true!

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 5, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Iron Ring represent!!!

Brett Rogers doesn’t come off like a guy who can sell even 300,000 PPV Buys. Heck, I question if him vs. Fedor could do 100,000….. And that’s assuming they stayed undefeated in order to fight each other.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read, as a black MMA fan. I’m pretty sure us black people love combat sports (like boxing) and have a history of buying ppv’s (Iron Mike Tyson?). So this is looking more like MMAracism than MMAlogic. Fact: there are more white people on welfare.

by CliChe Guevara on Aug 26, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This explains why the MMA hardcore crowd(99% white) is enamored with King Mo.

Bloody Elbow Pound-for-Pound the Best in Ultimate Fighting (UFC) Commentary, News and Community

by ronniebonnie on Aug 5, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really hope that I’m not the only black guy on Bloody Elbow.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everybody point at the token black guy!! lol

Don’t worry it’s cool. I voted for Obama!!

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No i heard there was one other.

Bloody Elbow Pound-for-Pound the Best in Ultimate Fighting (UFC) Commentary, News and Community

by ronniebonnie on Aug 5, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You’re not.

There’s like 4 of us I think.

by Tonley on Aug 5, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy shit, I figured out who Logic is

He’s Kanye West!!!

No further comments on Bruce Wayne.

by Gunslinger20 on Aug 5, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like you've studied this before`

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Eminem effect?

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Aug 5, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brett Rogers “working class black guy” doesnt get the “wanna be black” white kids.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you’re working in far too broad of generalizations. Dude has a ton of charisma, he’s marketable. Working class guy screwed by politics, he’s American, trying to beat a big Russian.

Is it Brock Lesnar? Fuck no. But it’s way better than AListair Overeem.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everything is comparative. UFC has 20 guys that would draw better. That’s not the world we’re working in.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol, yeah…

But I do agree with both you and Rome that building to Rogers is way better than building to another foreigner exotic.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Aug 5, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, this whole thing has much in common with Oregon Trail. If they leave too early, they can’t find food and Rogers dies. If they leave too late, they eat Rogers. Even if they do everything right, their whole roster may come down with syphilis.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Dysentery always killed my group.

by Sokonojudo on Aug 5, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Even if they do everything right, their whole roster may come down with syphilis.

No, they didn’t sign Tito, remember?

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s great.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 5, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chalked full of win!

by Estrada on Aug 5, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’d love to make a productive comment here, but this made me laugh out loud.

by black dragon on Aug 6, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Better relay that message to Jackson and Evans

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 5, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rashad, Rampage, Tuf and Kimbo is a trojan setup in getting the “wanna be” black market. (the white kids who actually spend money).

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don’t people think that if blacks were that marketable, that more shows on network TV would be featuring all black casts?

I hate to generalize that much, but it’s true. Even movies that have a lot of black people in it tend to suffer financially.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought he was worth 4 bajillion?

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Give or take a few bajillion

Dude’s got absurd cash

BOOSH

by Farthammer on Aug 5, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s because white people tend not to watch things that are viewed as “black” unless they are “urban,” and can attract the white wannabe gangsta types.

Also, advertisers think that blacks aren’t a favorable demographic, so their shows don’t feature blue chip sponsors.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah you have all of about 4 black actors who play every “black” role in every movie.

by mmalogic on Aug 5, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How did Rampage do @ 96?

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Aug 5, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He did okay, much better than it had any right to do consider the piss-poor promotion.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

500-600K?

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Aug 5, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, it was 350k but he fought Jardine with no other fights. Jardine is a disaster now.

His other performances include: Big one against Chuck, all time tv record against Dan, strong one against Forrest, and then considered internally at UFC primarily responsible for the big buyrate at UFC 92.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Honestly, that doesn’t strike me as anything special. Even with no draws, the UFC floor on a US show has gotta be close to 300k.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you did Jardine-Thiago Silva next month as the main without Randy, that show does 200-225k buys, max.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But thats not a weak show, thats a literally nothing show. You can’t compare Rampage with Thiago Silva, you have to compare him with other headline-quality fighters. As those go, Rampage is a weak draw.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UFC 102 is a very solid main card. Better then most actually. But I agree with Rome, with Couture/Nogueira it is a flop. With Couture/Nogueira it should at least do over 400,000. Then again, it’s in the same month as Silva/Griffin which might hurt it slightly.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We’ll see in December. This hasn’t been tested, and Rampage has a good PPV record.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its probably a negative, but not a promotion-killer. Anyway, this upcoming season of TUF should bring in a lot more black fans, which will counteract that skew to some extent.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But if you don’t test him right away, he comes dangerously close to being a protected fighter instead of the guy being ducked. Bottom line is that Rogers has earned either (a) the Fedor fight or (b) the title fight with Overeem. Werdum getting promised the title shot was BS. Regardless of whether Strikeforce sees the Fedor-Overeem fight as a big fight or not, it isn’t PPV sellable, and Fedor needs to be fighting for a title as soon as possible. Overeem hasn’t defended the title in over a year, so an Interim Championship fight between Fedor and Rogers is within the realm of possibility.

Personally, my problem is the idea that Strikeforce has ANYTHING remotely resembling PPV-worthy in the next 6 months. They need to be building to the CBS show, and for that Fedor-Overeem, “Champion vs. Champion” suits me just fine.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is just worrying way too much about what the internet says. Repeat after me: Tito-Ken 3, the fight nobody wanted to see, set all the records on TV. It doesn’t matter what the perception of hardcores is.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

But that’s not even comparable. EVERY CASUAL MMA FAN knows who Tito Ortiz and Ken Shamrock are. Of course that fight does good free TV. However, there’s no guarantee that fight is sellable on PPV.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sigh, if you’re going to miss the point of analogies I won’t continue to try.

The fact that internet fans start seeing it as protecting him doesn’t mean shit. What matters is you build a character that fans care about, not his legitimate place in the rankings. He already earned that by killing Arlovski.

Nobody in the United States gives a shit about Alistair Overeem.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sigh, if your analogies are going to be that bad, you probably shouldn’t.

While your knee jerks, your brain misses the idea that you’re attempting to craft a storyline to promote Rogers. and that storyline begins to fall apart if things don’t fall exactly how you want them to. Then what? What if Rogers ISN’T all that you want him to be? What happens if nobody buys him as a PPV contender after you tried to invest 6-8 months building up Rogers instead of spending 6-8 months making people care about Fedor. I say you can do both, but your PRIORITY should be Fedor. And that means feeding him credible opposition. Rogers isn’t going to get more credible, even if he gets more popular. If he gets more popular, the loss can be chalked up to inexperience and overlooked (see Florian, Kenny).

But I keep saying that Strikeforce is a year off from PPV. In that year, a lot of fighters can have their reputations rehabilitated. But I agree, Rogers is their best hope for a POPULAR, homegrown, American fighter to develop the grassroots following to have fans pay money to see him win.

Or have you forgotten that Rocky LOST the first time, and won the rematch?

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you should protect him...

protect protect protect….sorry but you’re trying to build a promotion here not please the message boards

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 5, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who said anything about protecting anyone?

All I’m saying is that when you “build to” a fight, you run the risk of a guy getting derailed. I’m saying make the Rogers fight right now, because he won’t have more momentum than he does now. If he’s going to beat all of those guys you named, then you can use those wins to REBUILD him.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its not a notable fight now.

Everything revolves around the PPV fight, Fedor/Rogers does nothing now, and its an unsellable rematch if Fedor crushes Rogers. If you’re playing russian roulette, for god’s sakes skew the odds in your favor in every way you can.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m still dubious about Strikeforce putting everything into a Fedor-headlined PPV.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we all are. But without a marketable matchup for Fedor, they’ve got no other path to success. UFC can bleed them dry.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rogers does deserve the fight

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Aug 5, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

forgot to add almost the half-mil he was gonna get fighting fedor

by The Bronzeville Bully on Aug 6, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the best idea I have read yet, no matter how the match up goes it would work for Striekforce. Well done.

by VegasBatman on Aug 5, 2009 6:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This is the right way to go about things with Fedorforce.

Probably isn’t going to go this way though, Fedor fights Rogers first.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Aug 5, 2009 6:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

they’ve already basically made it known that they want to build to Fedor/Overeem on PPV

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 5, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What the hell are they thinking? Thats the Affliction gameplan. Stupid.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If they are anything like UFC then Strikeforce will be reading the message boards and finding out that the hardcores don’t like his idea of builing that fight up.

GSP: I pulled my groin.

Greg Jackson: I don't care Georges! HIT HIM WITH YOUR GROIN!

by xFenixKnightx on Aug 5, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is stupid. The Rocky fight is the way to go for sure.

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on Aug 5, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The real danger for Strikeforce with their current plan

They’ll do Fedor/Rogers immediately and Fedor wins.

Then they do Overeem/Werdum which Werdum very possibly wins.

Then what? Fedor/Werdum on PPV? that’s a huge money pit

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 5, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This is the most likely outcome.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeeze. SF’s choices seem pretty shallow. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s exactly how it plays out.

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on Aug 5, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can Bigfoot fight in the US ever?

by Sokonojudo on Aug 5, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its a maybe, depends if the CSAC feels like forgiving him.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Aug 5, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

possibly not even real, all video evidence up until this point has been proven invalid. I’ve seen photos of the footprint though, that would be a tough fight for fedro.

by crinow on Aug 5, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

How about GAH-ZILLA?

Antonio “Bigfoot” Silva

by Sokonojudo on Aug 5, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how does everyone feel about a fight with the lochness monster?

by crinow on Aug 5, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha, Rec'd

'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko

by Well Read Idiot on Aug 6, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey

Kind of sounds like they’re fucked.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Aug 5, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I beg you Strikeforce

Don’t throw Rogers into the fire. Build around him!

Giving someone the Paulo Thiago/Sokoudjou treatment is just wrong.

Imagine if the UFC saw Jon Jones’ spinning elbow and thought “Let’s cash in now” and booked an immediate fight with Lyoto or Rampage.

by Sokonojudo on Aug 5, 2009 7:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Kinda like they gave Brock Lesnar a fight with Randy when he was 1-1?

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wasn’t the Brock fight part of the deal to get Randy back into the UFC?

Different kettle of fish there sir.

'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko

by Well Read Idiot on Aug 6, 2009 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m just glad to read a post in which we’ve all accepted the reality of situation and back to just being fans. Enough finger pointing and speculation bout who is at fault for what.

Ahhh…sweet relief….

oh crap, subo is here. i’m out. but wait, logic is here. must lurk more.

and yes, Rogers should be built up….not thrown into the fire.

if they do book fedor/overeem we just need to ensure that fedor doesnt use a croatian made cup. they are inferior to khazakstani cups…also number one exporter of sodium…

by Headkick on Aug 5, 2009 7:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Brett Rogers vs. Roger Gracie is another good fight. Marketable, and win/win for Strikeforce.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 7:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

problem is you probably have to kidnap gracie to get him to take this fight.

by Michael Rome on Aug 5, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah. Just hire some Luta Livre trainers for Rogers. That’ll tick em off enough to sign.

by Sokonojudo on Aug 5, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I forgot about Gracie. He’s a huge plus, in that they can just market him as “hey look everybody, a Gracie, a Gracie!”

Maybe they should match him up on a separate track as a failsafe if everything goes to hell with the Rogers/Fedor track.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do you guys think of my little Rogers Fedor Mixup

http://www.apture.com/view/qtr8Yo8NUp/

by pelechati on Aug 5, 2009 7:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Everything aside, I really really hope Strikeforce listens to your step 1.

by Nick Thomas on Aug 5, 2009 7:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i agree with Brent with a little bit of a change.

I would…..

1. Book monson vs Fedor. Same card as overeem vs werdum.

Overeem can redeem himself while Fedor show cases his stand up.

2. Book Rogers vs any strikeforce hw like Herman let Rogers show case a high light reel ending.

3. After those 3 fights hopefully the three favored fighters come out clean. Hopefully overeem beats werdum nicely and set up overeem vs Fedor on CBS.

4. Rogers vs lashly also on the card.

5. Winners face each other. Exposure from CBS and the hws always on the same card will make timing nice and people get to see two fighters win on the same night and compare who might win before future fights are booked. Making for anticipation

"What do you want from me?..... A Slap?"

by xtremecouture on Aug 5, 2009 8:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair this was before Overeem gained 30lbs of solid muscle and zero body fat due to his “unbelievable workout regimen”.

Bloody Elbow Pound-for-Pound the Best in Ultimate Fighting (UFC) Commentary, News and Community

by ronniebonnie on Aug 5, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was also his second loss to Rua (I think) and the end of a three fight losing streak at LHW before he moved up

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Aug 5, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

are those insulin needles? overeem is diabetic?

by crinow on Aug 5, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do you have to remind me of Saw 2? The needle pit was the worst thing I’ve ever seen.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Aug 5, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

100% agree. Worst thing i have ever seen.

by MMAussie on Aug 5, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i didnt know horse came in pill form.

by woooburn on Aug 5, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The biggest problem for Strikeforce is that:

1. They need to work their way up to PPV. In order to do so, they need to first use Showtime, then CBS, and then PPV.

2. Fedor needs legit competition throughout. So each step of the way, they another Heavyweight who is out of the picture.

3. By the time Strikeforce & Fedor make it to PPV, they are either out of challengers or nearly out of challengers.

Not to mention that by then his contract is basically up and he could jump ship….

Where is the payoff for Strikeforce again?

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 7:47 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

This is why it’s a bad idea to go to PPV. If the game plan was “Showtime, CBS, CBS,” it’d be all good, and if Fedor walked at the end of his deal, there’d be no hard feelings. But this other way is fraught with danger.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem then becomes the co-promotion. There is no payoff in co-promoting on CBS. The money just isn’t there.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Pro Wretling model of Booking Fedor

I know a lot of MMA fans resent any comparison to pro wrestling, but there are certain concepts of match making that pro wrestling gets right whether despite it being fake. You not only want to build your challenger (Fedor), but you need to build your champion too (Overeem).

So I would be against matching Fedor or Overeem right away, because nobody knows anything about the champ. I would book Fedor in a rematch against Andrei Arlovski to start with. I know he got caught, but I don’t think AA has diminished the way others seem to because he got caught . . . many people where calling for a rematch after the fight. You could sell it on Arlovski’s showing in the first fight and his chance for redemption.

Meanwhile, I would go ahead with the Overeem-Rogers title fight because that would sell. Its win-win. If Overeem wins he gets some American cred for beating a guy that is developing a following.

Then I would put Fedor up against Jeff Monson, again, to build momentum. Then let the winner of the Overeem-Rogers fight take on Fabricio Wedum for the title. Again, building Fedor versus building the champion.

If all works out, you get a title fight for either a big CBS show or, perhaps, their first Pay Per View where Fedor is the challenger who has now been exposed fully to an American audience versus a champion who’s proven to have earn the belt AND has actually made the Strikeforce heavyweight tile mean something. Another problem with Affliction was they were basically the all-star game of MMA where it was just random good fighters matched up against each other with no build-up, no story, no nothing. Nobody had a reason to care why Matt Lindland was fighting Vitor Belfort other that hardcore fans who knew who they were.

Now I understand the difference between wrestling and MMA is that in wrestling you can make that happen, but the reason I believe in the concept of the long road is that it gives good exposure to Fedor on Showtime and CBS, it gives the champion Overeem (or whomever) credibility and exposure in America as well . . . and it gives importance to the Strikeforce heavyweight title.

You know, a heavyweight division of Fedor Emeliankeno, Alistair Overeem, Brett Rogers, Fabricio Werdum, Jeff Monson, and Andrei Arlovski isn’t that bad. Sprinkle in some Mike Kyle, maybe an eventual UFC heavyweight castoff (like a Gonzaga if he loses again) and it might not be as shallow as we think. What Strikeforce needs to do is get these guys in the cage.

ps-I’m aware Monson isn’t signed, but since his passport was taken I’m pretty sure it won’t take much convincing for him to sign.

by mason_beer on Aug 5, 2009 7:51 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

If you really want to go “pro wrestling,” remember when Ric Flair went to the WWF? Why not have Fedor continue to wear and defend the WAMMA belt?

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Monson will get an offer from the UFC as well to bring up the asking price.

If Fedor/Arlovski 2 happens, Strikeforce will feel such a negative wrath it will alianate the majority of their fanbase.

Unlike the UFC who relies on casual fans, Strikeforce relies on fans like us.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s an absolutely useless rematch. Arlovski not only lost to Fedor, he lost to Rogers right after that. So that gets him a rematch with Fedor?

Backlash!!

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I look at it as more feeding him to Fedor, a la Herring-Nog when Nog showed up in the UFC

by mason_beer on Aug 5, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nog/Herring 3, which was equally as pointless started off a PPV, didn’t headline it.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it won't matter if its on Showtime

Part of Strikeforce’s appeal is since they don’t run monthly shows they can continue to use their top starts on each show. Nick Diaz, Jake Sheilds, Gina Carano – they can all be on the same show and the stars sell it. There is a backstory, Fedor will still likely win, and it will be a good fight! The Herring-Nog fight introduced Nog to the UFC audience and it worked. This can too

by mason_beer on Aug 5, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I'm an idiot,

but I’d pay to see AA vs Fedor 2 if there was something else on the card worth watching…

by pl4tinum on Aug 6, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem they will face though is that the hardcore fans can’t/won’t pay for Fedor. It doesn’t matter who they match him up with, they need to find a way to attract casual fans, and if it means alienating the hardcores, so be it, they’ll go back, they always do.

by Phildo on Aug 5, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they don’t have to pay when its on CBS or Showtime. There is a certain freedom in that, to be honest.

by mason_beer on Aug 5, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And if you go that route, they won’t make enough money to actually PAY Fedor.

Network TV is good, but Elite’s cards on CBS couldn’t pay their expenses, what makes people think Strikeforce will be able to pay for Fedor?

by Phildo on Aug 5, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But Elite spent a TON of money buying up companies and overpaying for their set. Their infrastructure was bad.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That doesn’t even really matter.

They couldn’t sell all the commercials for the show, that means there isn’t as much money in these cards as everyone is imagining.

by Phildo on Aug 5, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rogers' ground game

If you watch some of Rogers’ early fights, where he seemed to face a lot of wrestlers, he has really good takedown defense and a good defensive ground game. He has shown to be pretty average in the clinch, with his only weapon being knees from the thai plum. I imagine that his trainers are working hard on teaching him how to create distance when clinched, as his striking seems to be most effective at range.

My guess would be that he would be suceptable on the ground against a jiu-jitsu guy, as he doesn’t seem to have the agility that would make you think he could avoid getting caught in submissions (and he has pretty long arms). But from what I’ve seen, he would have a pretty good chance of defeating any heavyweight wrestler outside of the Cain/Lesnar class.

by Trust Doesn't Rust on Aug 5, 2009 7:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Randy Couture?

I personally believe Randy Couture will do anything to fight Fedor. Does any one remember what the details were of Couture’s contract? Now that Fedor is in America signed and sealed for a promotion that seemingly knows what its doing, does anyone think Couture might make a power play on Dana? When the Nog fight is over, there is literally nothing left for Randy to do in the sport besides fight Fedor.

by mason_beer on Aug 5, 2009 7:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Brock, or some more LHW (Machida :D)

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Aug 5, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, waiting for Randy to finish out his deal might be the safest approach of all.

by madiq on Aug 5, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

People need to stop buying the Randy/Fedor hype.

The entire Randy situation was about money, it will always be about money. Maybe Randy would walk to fight Fedor, but the money would have to be right. Strikeforce will not be able to pay Randy enough to walk from the UFC (again) and fight Fedor.

by Phildo on Aug 5, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. The UFC is filled with huge money fights for Randy right now, Strikeforce would have to pay him many millions to pry him away.

by Foxskinrug on Aug 5, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And it’s just not fighting money.

It’s about getting his Xtreme Couture fighters into the UFC. It’s about having an announcing job once he retires.

The UFC is his retirement plan (if he wants one). I think he has learned his lesson…..

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 5, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a single UFC star will move an inch unless they are guaranteed 12 million dollars…

Affliction had to guarantee Arlovski over 3mil and he’s hardly a “couture” – well the price now is a 12m guarantee plus-plus if you want a UFC star. CALLING ALL SHOPPERS!

And this only goes for the none title holders (because the title holders are locked up and you would need 18 months to 3 years for the possibility of getting out of the champions clause).

Here’s the biggest indicator on whether or not strikeforce can sign away a star from Zuffa: TITO ORTIZ.

He was the biggest free agent and nobody could sign him save Zuffa.

by mmalogic on Aug 6, 2009 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/mma/post/2009/08/m-1strikeforce-deal-for-fedor-changes-competitive-balance/1?csp=34

“This does not close the door on Fedor fighting Brock Lesnar,” Millen says. “It just means now it would be Strikeforce, M-1 Global and UFC.”

by Nick Thomas on Aug 5, 2009 8:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh FFS

Millen is a toolbox

by VegasBatman on Aug 5, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah like co-promoting 3 ways will make more sense to the UFC. Jerry should go do some investigative reporting in N Korea.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Aug 5, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The door is still not closed on me marrying Arriany either.

by Phildo on Aug 5, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You, Huerta, and ?

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 5, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might wanna learn how to spell her name first

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the impact on his chances is negligible.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 6, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still, he needs all the help he can get.

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 6, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes people are beyond help.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 6, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Photo Caption contest

my entry:

“Back Street’s Back … All Right!”

A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who

by thetakeover on Aug 6, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can’t believe he spent Fedor’s money for somebody to do that to his hair.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Aug 6, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK here is my track for 3 Fedor fights:

1) Fedor vs. Overeem for the title right away. Build it up as much as can before the fight.

If Fedor wins (likely)

2) Pair him off against the winner of Rogers and Werdum on CBS. Hopefully it’s Rogers and you dual promote him as this blue collar fighter and the new badass on the block. If it’s Werdum make sure Carano and Bobby Lashley are on the card (see below)

If Fedor wins again your options are:
A) Randy Couture – best case scenario he leaves the UFC on two wins (Nog and either Cro Cop or Dos Santos). Give him a big cut of the PPV and you MIGHT have a deal.

B) Pair Bobby Lashley against Rogers (if he lost to Werdum or Monson if not) and Satoshi Ishii against Roger Gracie. Winners face each other for the right to face Fedor. If it’s Werdum or Rogers or Monson, maybe they have to face Andre Arlovski first. If it’s Ishii you stage it in Japan and Strikeforce or M-1 get to co-promote.

C) If the rumored Sengoku- Dream merger and Heavyweight tournament happens you wait to you get a winner out of that. Hopefully it’s Josh Barnett (for selling point, not because he deserves it). After four straight wins, whoever comes out of it is going to be highly ranked.

D) Lesnar freaks out and slams the Bud CEO on top of the ESPN CEO and gets kicked out of the UFC.

by nottheface on Aug 5, 2009 10:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I just wanna point out there is a press conference to talk about Fedor, but not about Carano and Cyborg

by The Bronzeville Bully on Aug 6, 2009 12:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

They already had one

I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva

by ufc4 on Aug 6, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know they did but with fight coming, I expected to see a stronger push than what Im seeing now. There is too much talk about Fedor signing and very little about this fight

by The Bronzeville Bully on Aug 6, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Im still giving it time for Carano to surpass UFC 100 in media coverage.

by The Bronzeville Bully on Aug 6, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ive been thinking about this one all morning. Heres what ive come up with.

1. Book Fedor/Rogers for early fall. You dont want to delay his debut so you can capitalize on all the buzz that they have right now. Im afraid that Overeem won be ready in time. You can even make it for an interim title to avoid the why isnt Fedor fighting for the title question. Also, you can just say that Overeem isnt ready to come back from the injury yet. Also you dont want to risk Rogers losing before this fight. Its a great human interest story but hes undefeated.

2. Unify the titles near the end of the year or beginning of next year with Fedor/Overeem. This will be your big sell. Have Lashley/Werdum on the same card (Assumming Werdum gets through Kyle). This is a number one contenders match for the third event.

3. Have Fedor fight the winner of Lashley/Werdum. If Lashley wins, you can capitalize on his popularity to sell the fight with Fedor. If Werdum wins you have to rely on the the buzz he will get from beating Lashley plus Fedor haveing main evented two events (hopefully one on CBS).

I think with the plan in the original post you are relying too much on Rogers to win in a title eliminator. That fight is never going to get better. Capitalize on his buzz now while he is still undefeated.

by Rabbit915 on Aug 6, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You thought about this all morning and came up with a plan to build to Werdum-Fedor? That is the worst possible fight they have.

by Michael Rome on Aug 6, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, okay i was thinking about it while i was in the shower. That was all morning at that point.

And second, the entire point of my plan was that building towards a fight is the worst possible plan. They need to make the big fights right away and worry about that third fight later.

by Rabbit915 on Aug 6, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They are in a play big or go home scenario. The big play is to build towards something. Anything else they go home.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 6, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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