The Lost Art Of Civil Debate
by MMA_Messiah on Aug 4, 2009 7:37 PM EDT
50 comments
I think people will look back on these past three weeks as being pretty significant to MMA's growth.
The events that have occurred have caused an apparent sudden surge of interest in MMA websites. Unfortunately along with this surge I've noticed an alarming drop off in civil debate. Sherdog, MMA Junkie and Bloody Elbow are three of the biggest Forum sites on the net and they all seem to have been inundated with antagonizing posters.
Granted when you're on Sherdog it's hard to tell if things have gotten worse....Pissing into an ocean of piss and all, but MMA Junkie certainly has gone down hill, so much that I find that I no longer visit very often.
Bloody Elbow is my last refuge.
Now I'm perfectly aware that I have only contributed a handful of times, but I assure you that I have an 8th Degree Blackbelt in Lurking.
Here are some of my thoughts about posting:
1. How you defend your opinion is more important than what your opinion is.
There will always be people that have an opposing position. That's what makes forums work. The key is to try and make them see things from your perspective not make them want to leave and never come back again.
2. Less is always more.
Carpet bombing a thread will only cause people to start skipping your posts. Three dozen bland comments will often mask the one or two gems you've written.
3. This isn't real life...Stalking won't get you laid.
Arguing with the same person across multiple threads is never helpful. A person's opinion depends heavily on context and thus may change depending on the thread.
4. Argue opinions, not points of view.
Telling someone that they only think that way because they are a "Tuf Noob" is pointless. They can't go back in time so they will always have the point of view of a "Tuf Noob". If they hate the UFC they will likely always hate the UFC.
5. Pretend you're married...know when to drop it.
Sometimes a debate will turn into a lost cause and it's best to give up and move on. It's often easy to tell because posters will start to gang together. Once the wagons start to circle it's nearly impossible to change any one's mind.
I'm sure everyone has a couple forum pet peeves...lets hear'em
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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I don’t really want to touch on this too heavily… Arguing about arguing should be the cardinal sin on your list.
I STILL poop rainbows.
by Blackout612 on Aug 4, 2009 7:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rec’d with a vengeance.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 4, 2009 7:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
so true...
junkie is so bad nowadays, i dont even bother. theres alot of people just swearing at eachother and telling on another to kill themselves, its really childish.
like you, bloodyelbow is my last refuge. i have commented once before about how the quality here is top notch
by bluejitz on Aug 4, 2009 7:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m the most civil motherfucker you’ll ever meet.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by subo on Aug 4, 2009 7:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't you know I would never say fuck!!!!
I would never fucking ever fucking say that!!!!!!! – Ron Burgundy
by MauiPimpin on Aug 4, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everything you said is wrong.
Post links to refute what I said.
In all honestly, I think things will clean up if someon really disappeared, he managed to railroad almost every post over the weekend.
Fedor seems to get a lot of people worked up for some reason. It’s usually good over here, cooler heads should prevail in a few days.
by Phildo on Aug 4, 2009 8:05 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
For some reason Fedor is one of those topics that gets people going crazy (Brock Lesnar also seems to be one, as does anything that comes out of Dana White’s mouth).
My main issue with a lot of what goes on is that there are people who obviously can’t separate internet debate from the real world. People actually seem to take this stuff personally and that just isn’t healthy. We are here for our own entertainment and education about the sport not to try and win at the internet (not to mention that I doubt any of our fan discussions is going to actually change the thing we are discussing).
by who me on Aug 4, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with everything but this
1. How you defend your opinion is more important than what your opinion is.
Eloquence and courtesy are poor remedies for idiocy, and the hostile and illiterate are no less capable of insightful commentary.
by George Lucas on Aug 4, 2009 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Translation: “If you disagree with me, eloquence and courtesy still makes you an idiot. If you agree with me, then you can be hostile and illiterate all you want.”
by cyph on Aug 4, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“4. Argue opinions, not points of view.”
This is super important. I don’t want to see people saying, “So-and-so just wants to see the UFC fail,” anymore. Unless someone specifically comes out with an opinion (i.e. subo’s view that the UFC should swallow the MMA univerwse), of course.
Also, every should really read about this
list of fallacies. I’m going to start being a dick about people arguing logically, so be prepared.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Aug 4, 2009 8:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That quote should be this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_logical_fallacies
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Aug 4, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think everyone here is an expert on False Dilemma :)
by MMA_Messiah on Aug 4, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s a bunch on that list that pop up constantly here.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Aug 4, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Aug 4, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, you’re going to start being a dick?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by subo on Aug 5, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Start being a bigger dick, imo.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Aug 5, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those emails lie to you Mike.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 5, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great post
thank you
The SB Nation community moderation tools are our secret.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 4, 2009 8:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for putting up with our crap.
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Aug 4, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
When debates degrade into childish squabbles it’s no fun.
by ludakrish on Aug 4, 2009 9:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Love this...
Well said sir
No further comments on Bruce Wayne.
by Gunslinger20 on Aug 4, 2009 9:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
“I’m sure everyone has a couple forum pet peeves…lets hear’em”
MetsGod and FredPancakes.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 4, 2009 10:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 4 recs
Has MetsGod managed to get himself banned yet? He seemed to be working really hard at it.
by who me on Aug 4, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Disintegration -- I'm taking it in stride.
AbsurdMeridian
Follow me on Twitter.
by Eugene Schelfaut on Aug 4, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Story Time!
Anyone got the quotes that got him the ban?
by Sokonojudo on Aug 4, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
About time, I only flagged him twice yesterday.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets aren’t a real Major League team.
Evidence
They’re the Mets. I rest my case!
(ok fine, they’ve just had a lot of injuries and Tony Bernazard. They at least keep their players unlike Pittsburgh)
by Sokonojudo on Aug 4, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they’re one uninjured player just fell down the steps.
Wait a minute, screw you the mets are awesome.
by Phildo on Aug 4, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are the “Amazinngs”. Amazing at what I’m not sure.
by Sokonojudo on Aug 4, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to green this one...
Do not know of MetsGod but the other name’s flaming is flat out irritating…. I’ll leave the scary mancrush on Fedor out.
No further comments on Bruce Wayne.
by Gunslinger20 on Aug 4, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pancake’s heart is in the right place, he just needs to learn when to STFU. Mets on the other hand….
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Aug 5, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I agree… I will leave it at that then.
No further comments on Bruce Wayne.
by Gunslinger20 on Aug 5, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s see, he (MetsGod) called jemaleddin a doofus and gay, was one of the ones who caused Brent to have to warn everyone who said “Fuck Fedor” with being banned, called Fedor retarded, and is apparently an anti-semite.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen MMA_Messiah, Amen.
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Aug 5, 2009 12:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To expand on number 1, some MMA fans will defend their opinions with utterly self-serving arguments that carry no real logic (for example, “so-and-so is over-rated” or “so-and-so has not fought TRUE top competition” yet do not have any real evidence for such a statement). Self-serving arguments would be a HUGE pet peeve of mine when it comes to debates.
by chrisbboy82 on Aug 5, 2009 1:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Question:
does stalking get you laid in real life?
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Aug 5, 2009 1:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post
I might also add that maybe some of the regulars not be so harsh to the new posters (there is a slight tendency of ganging up), no need to scare off people new to the sport/ site. Jake Shields being hot post aside maybe being a little gentler to the noobs. Unless the noob is a complete dick then feel free to tear them apart.
by despisedIcon856 on Aug 5, 2009 4:35 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
We’re a loyal bunch, even if we cant ever agree on anything.
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Aug 5, 2009 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Aug 5, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the new people bring something halfway intelligent to the conversation then they’re more than welcome, if they are gonna start spewing the same bullshit we can read on Shitdog or the UG then they deserve whatever they get.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 5, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll green that comment...
Its true, getting new points of view on here is awesome as long as new arrivals don’t act like flaming assholes.
No further comments on Bruce Wayne.
by Gunslinger20 on Aug 6, 2009 12:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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