Assessing Strikeforce's Chances to Make a Go of Promoting Fedor Emelianenko
by Kid Nate on Aug 4, 2009 1:54 PM EDT
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Dave Meltzer breaks it down. After pointing out that Fedor will be marketed as the No. 1 heavyweight and the legitimate champion in the world as long as he doesn't lose, Meltzer concedes that none of the three likely opponents for Fedor on the Strikeforce roster will create the kind of hype needed to draw general public interest, much less sell a PPV. But he goes on to make the long-term case:
But there are several more factors in the long-term. Strikeforce’s television contract includes options with CBS, which is in the same Viacom corporate umbrella as Showtime. If Emelianenko’s second fight is on CBS in a prime-time slot, he will get a measure of exposure in this country the likes of which he’s never come close to receiving. There is value in being considered by most as the best heavyweight, and of a second MMA organization having someone of his stature on its major events.
Both sides can benefit long-term from the visibility, and quite frankly, two years down the line, if Emelianenko has built up his name to the average sports fan in the U.S. during that period, there would be more interest, past just the hardcore audience, in seeing him face whomever the UFC champion is at the time. It could give him significantly more leverage with the UFC than he has now.
...
Ultimately, for the deal to pay off, Emelianenko will have to keep winning, and either draw strong network ratings or become a pay-per-view attraction. Emelianenko has been a star in Japan for six years, headlining numerous big shows, but has never been a strong television ratings draw in that country. ...
Last year’s Elite XC-on-CBS experiment showed that when it came to drawing network ratings, an interesting character (Kimbo Slice) and a pretty face (Gina Carano) drew eyeballs. The promise of a great fight (Robbie Lawler-Scott Smith II after a great first fight) or seeing a highly ranked fighter (Jake Shields) flopped in prime time.
Can Emelianenko be marketed to draw people who otherwise wouldn’t watch MMA on television like Slice and Carano did? Pay-per-view requires not only Emelianenko’s presence, but also a strong opponent that people believe will be a challenge, as well as strong promotion and a strong storyline. It’s imperative Emelianenko doesn’t lose in the interim, which would kill the most important thing he can be sold as to the big audience, which is that he is the real world champion.
As much as people have criticized Strikeforce for making the move to sign Fedor, they really had no choice. In order for their deal with Showtime to really be viable, they need to put together a breakout show that can get them on CBS. Having Gina Carano headline their August 15 event is part of that strategy. Carano was an excellent ratings draw at all of her EliteXC fights.
But you can't build a fighting promotion around one headliner. With Frank Shamrock clearly slipping and Cung Le preoccupied with his movie career, Strikeforce was desperate for a marquee name who could headline a CBS broadcast.
Quietly staying on Showtime and gradually improving their ratings isn't an option. CBS/Showtime are interested in MMA because they are looking for breakout programming. Even though it ultimately ended in disaster, as long as Gary Shaw and EliteXC managed to protect Kimbo Slice, it was a win for the network, if not the promotion. Kimbo and Gina delivered great ratings.
CBS wants more of that from their 2.0 try at MMA. But this time they want the promotion to be built on a solid footing. One that won't drop from a jab in 0:14. Strikeforce is under a great deal of pressure to step up their game.
They spent months negotiating with Tito Ortiz and presumably building plans to market shows around the UFC legend. But ultimately, Dana White moved in and re-signed Tito. If anything was the trigger to the current UFC vs Strikeforce hostilities, it was the UFC signing Tito.
Once the option of building network shows around Tito was removed, they really had no option but to at least put in a bid for Fedor. Luckily for them, Dana White's smack talking seems to have permanently alienated Fedor. Here's an open letter Fedor wrote Dana white in February 2008:
Numerous times have I read mister White's statements on Internet concerning myself. In my opinion, allowing yourself to say those things is not a sign of a gentleman or a grown man at all! If he candidly wants to prove himself right then let my fight with Randy happen or let me face the reigning UFC champion Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. In the future I wouldn't want to hear those statements in my address ever again and I won't tolerate that.
As I've repeatedly elaborated, my take on the UFC/M-1 negotiations is that M-1 wasn't going to make a deal with the UFC under any circumstances. Dana's habit of bad mouthing fighters has alienated Fedor. His most recent eruption after the Strikeforce deal was announced didn't do anyone any good.
Dana can counter program Strikeforce all he wants (which he was probably going to be forced to do anyway) and it's highly likely that Strikeforce and Showtime/CBS will fail in what they're trying to do. But the reality is this, had Dana White not made an enemy of Fedor in the original PRIDE acquisition and continued to make it worse with 18 months of epic (and pointless) smack talking, the UFC could have signed the greatest MMA fighter in history and the unquestioned #1 heavyweight in the world last week.
That would have been game over for Strikeforce (and DREAM) or anyone else looking to break into the top levels of MMA. Instead the MMA wars will continue. Sure the UFC is the odds on favorite to win, but fighting wars you could have avoided is a real bad long term strategy.
The coalition of Fedor/Strikeforce/DREAM/CBS/EA Sports could be a very formidable combination. If Strikeforce manages to put on one successful CBS show headlined by Fedor, there are a number of heavyweights on the UFC roster whose contracts will be over in 18 months. Fedor vs Randy Couture on CBS in late 2010? Fedor vs Chuck Liddell? I certainly wouldn't even put it past Brock Lesnar to screw over the UFC if he gets the chance. He's jumped ship before.
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good write up...
“…the UFC could have signed the greatest MMA fighter in history and the unquestioned #1 heavyweight in the world last week.”
by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 4, 2009 1:44 PM EDT reply actions
Good read. We’ll have to see how the Fedor/Strikeforce/DREAM/CBS/EA Sports coalition plays out against the UFC. One thing to keep in mind is that I’d argue the UFC has faced similiar coalitions before such as EliteXC/Showtime/CBS/Kimbo/Strikeforce and Affliction/Fedor/Golden Boy/Trump/Mark Cuban and came out on top. It’ll be interesting to see how this one plays out.
difference being
That EXC and Affliction were never built on solid foundation the way Strikeforce is.
Even if Strikeforce isn’t able to truly break into the “Big Time”. They should still be able to run profitable shows and carve out their own niche.
They’ve been doing just that for several years now. Well before Showtime and CBS came calling.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Yeah, there’s a huge difference indeed. Kimbo was keeping the EliteXC boat afloat with the help of Gina. Gina was actually a legitimate fighter though, Kimbo was unproven. Affliction’s problem came with payroll. Trump merely lended his name and connections.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
In the end, the winners will be
1. The fighters
2. The fans
Nothing better than seeing 2 well run companies actually competing for market share.
Capitalism at its finest!!!
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Aug 4, 2009 1:48 PM EDT reply actions 11 recs
Capitalism at its finest!!!
This also includes the bigger fish raping and then eating the smaller fish.
I love me some Sexyama!
That would be Survival of the Fittest.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
And it’s part of capitalism, so it’s funny when you see the same people rejoice about this competition and then cry when Zuffa tries to kill the competition, you can’t have it both ways.
People cry b/c it sucks for the fans, But, you can blame Zuffa for that.
"Not everything that is faced can be changed. But nothing can be changed until it is faced."
-James Arthur Baldwin
*can’t
"Not everything that is faced can be changed. But nothing can be changed until it is faced."
-James Arthur Baldwin
I was trying to say...
From a business perspective it makes sense for them.
"Not everything that is faced can be changed. But nothing can be changed until it is faced."
-James Arthur Baldwin
well.....
if the Lakers (fedor) left the NBA (UFC) for the ABA (SF) because the NBA wouldnt “co-promote” the finals with them… I dont think any basketball fans would be happy.
And I dont think the Lakers bringing the Clipper’s, Grizzlies, and Kings (possible HWs leaving UFC to chase Fedor) with them to the ABA is much of a consolation prize for the fans.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
As much as I agree that Dana’a bad-mouthing didn’t help anything…I think the co-promotion requirement would have killed any future deal anyway.
by MMA_Messiah on Aug 4, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think Fedor ever intended to sign with the UFC because of Dana’s mouth unless the deal was way to good to pass up. And that is where co-promoting with the UFC comes into play, because presumably a co-promotion deal would have kept Fedor occupied (and created a revenue stream far greater than he has now) until his death as part owner of M-1. So, IMHO, Fedor (M-1) threw out the idea of co-promotion at the negotiating table, which he/they definitely knew was a longshot, just to see if the UFC would take the bait. Once they realized it wasn’t going to happen, they agreed to the deal with Strikeforce and the rest is history.
“AssessingStrikeforce’sStrikeforce/M-1 Global’s Chances to Make a Go ofPromotingCo-Promoting Fedor Emelianenko "
I fixed it for you.
With that out of the way: you forgot to include how much easier it’s going to be for Strikeforce now that they finally have a great partner like M-1 Global around to help them promote. Please address all the great things M-1 will be doing and re-submit.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 4, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
M-1 is just there to foot 50% of the losses on the Fedor shows. Strikeforce should come out of this deal ahead. I once thought that Coker would never take this deal because it doesn’t make sense. Now that I see how the deal turned out, I think he made a brilliant move.
by cyph on Aug 4, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m still not swayed.
And is M-1 not doing anything besides providing Fedor?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Yeah, that’s not promoting. That’s financing. And even then, it’s not really.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
No, that’s promotion. If they make money, M-1 shares in the profit. If they lose money, M-1 shares in the losses. Co-promotion is a two edged sword. M-1 overestimate how popular Fedor is. The UFC deal is guaranteed money. The Strikeforce deal is anything but.
No, that’s promotion.
Here’s what I’m trying to say: that’s not what being a promoter means. Not in any traditional sense. If you’re saying that that’s what M-1 means by “co-promotion,” that’s fine, but it’s NOT promoting according to the dictionary, wikipedia, common sense, the meaning of the root word “promote” or anything else.
“The Strikeforce deal is anything but [guaranteed money].”
Except Fedor’s payday. Which gets routed through M-1 first.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Definition from Wikipedia: Promotion involves disseminating information about a product, product line, brand, or company. It is one of the four key aspects of the marketing mix. (The other three elements are product marketing, pricing, and distribution.)
The product, brand, and company is Fedor/MMA. Strikeforce/M-1 global is the brand and company. That’s promotion. Marketing is done by Strikeforce and Showtime, distribution is by Showtime. Promotion cost money which has to be paid out. Profits gained from sales of product is what M-1 and Strikeforce wants. This is the definition.
Promotion is also a noun. Strikeforce is a promotion and M-1 is a promotion. I don’t even know why we’re even arguing about this.
It’s still not a bad deal for Coker. M-1 will have to pay half the losses, and if their assessment of Fedor’s popularity is wrong, they will stand to lose money. Coker still has other events in which Fedor will not be a part of including the smaller ShoMMA shows that he can at least make some profit from. M-1 only gets a cut on Fedor headlined shows, so three shows out of the 48 Coker is contracted isn’t that bad of a deal.
It’s a shot in the dark, I think, to hope that Fedor’s popularity rises with each show. He also has to win all the fights, so if it doesn’t work out. Coker will go back to making these small profits. Eventually, that’ll hurt Strikeforce. If the UFC ramps up payroll, most of SF will leave the promotion and head to the UFC. Of course, then it becomes a logistical issue for the UFC along with paying out more money to put on shows because their roster will be enormous.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Really, you know that 100% for certain?
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
Have you been reading the news the past few days? Look up “UFC M-1 co-promotion” then “Jerry Millen.”
- We are going to co-promote with M-1, M-1 doesn’t get 50% of Strikeforce, it’s just a revenue split of the event
I don’t see anything about covering losses
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
Yea, but people have said that the 50/50 thing was only with the UFC.
Revenue is different from profit, they said they wanted a 50/50 split of cost and profit with the UFC, now Coker is talking about revenue, that’s an entirely different thing.
No matter what, every Strikeforce show will have revenue, and M1 getting a part of that doesn’t mean that they are necessarily getting a part of the profit, or paying much of the cost.
If you want to get strict with what he said, then revenue is not profit at all, it is what you bring in before subtracting cost. I highly doubt Coker is willing to split half his revenue while taking paying for all the cost.
Since this is clearly insane, I would not take what Coker said literally.
And since we have not seen the details of the deal I’m not taking what you say literally either. Nothing personal.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
I don’t think it’s a 50/50 split of revenue, that would be stupid. A 50/50 split of profit would also be stupid. It could be a smaller split of revenue, which seems like a similar deal that they had with Affliction, since they didn’t manage to lose a ton of money on those cards either.
The problem is that there are different contract requirements for Zuffa and for everyone else.
Yeah, and the reverse of Fedor signing with Strikeforce is him not signing with Strikeforce but they didn’t say anything about that either.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
no they are not… they are not paying 50% of the losses. They accepted less money that the Zuffa offer for Fedor and taking 50% of the gate and overseas rights to the shows.
by mmalogic on Aug 4, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s our semi-weekly visit from logic!
So which card can we expect Fedor on? 107? 108? :-P
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 4, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think You're Putting More Weight on Dana's Comments...
than the fact that M1 reportedly might be misrepresenting UFC’s offer to its fighters, and the fact that they’re requiring Co-Promotion anywhere they go…
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
obviously the first part is speculation...
but still.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Dana talking shit plays right into their hands
Will someone tell me who benefits when Dana smack talks Fedor?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Wrong, UFC
No SF signs Fedor and they go out of business.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
No+w
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
yep..
disrespecting the guy won’t make him want to sign a deal in the future.. Fedor isn’t tito and dana needs to understand that and tone down a bit…
that being said, i get how Dana is real hurt about this, he is in fact a fanboy after all..
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 4, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You are correct sir.
It is fun listening to Dana talk Fedor though.
"Will Rogers never met Barry Switzer."
But it’s a 3 fight deal. They’re going to come in and ravage Strikeforce financially and leave, like they do to everyone else.
There are ways it could work. There were ways Affliction could potentially have worked. The odds are against it.
This is a company that can’t even promote Cyborg vs. Carano. A first year marketing student should be able to hit that one out of the park, but they’re completely incompetent. If they can’t figure that one out, how will they promote Fedor?
by Michael Rome on Aug 4, 2009 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
I disagree with you for once
Strikeforce will have three co-promotions out of 48. They will get money from Showtime/CBS to cover the Fedor salary. They will get on CBS which is huge. They will only have to foot 50% of their losses for the Fedor shows. It’s a stroke of genius.
The problem with Cyborg VS Carano is it’s on Showtime. It’s really not Strikeforce’s fault. They do fine selling out their venue in San Jose. They are making the most of what they have.
they have 1 year to get it right..
I hope you’re right and they don’t die..
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 4, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d generally agree with Cyph’s view here. It’s only three shows. It isn’t going to ravage Strikeforce. We’re not talking tens of millions of dollars in the loss column. They aren’t big enough for that.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, marketing Fedor is a tough sell for Strikeforce. Everything you said about Gina and Cyborg is true, so if SF can’t market a pretty face like Gina’s properly, how will they market Fedor? a) he doesn’t really look like a fighter. More like a teddy bear. (a teddy bear that can armbar you in a second, but a teddy bear none-the-less) b) he’s got no charisma. The guy comes across like a wet fish. Gina has more charisma in her pinkie than Fedor does, but SF still can’t promote her properly.
Dana is one nasty and viciously bitter bald man when he wants to be. The next year is gonna be u-g-l-y!
I love me some Sexyama!
Also, SF probably won’t have access to Affliction’s highlight clips. No Affliction clips, no Pride clips… tough one for sure.
I love me some Sexyama!
I agree
THAT really sucks to not have access to that footage.
"Not everything that is faced can be changed. But nothing can be changed until it is faced."
-James Arthur Baldwin
Strikeforce: “just trust us fans, please…just trust us on this one… he is a bad bad bad man. he may look pudgy and kind, but he’s a real animal. We’d show you some of his carnage if we could, but you’ll just have to trust us on this one.”
Strikforce Viewers: “pass the remote.”
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
This is not going to work
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
But the reality is this, had Dana White not made an enemy of Fedor in the original PRIDE acquisition and continued to make it worse with 18 months of epic (and pointless) smack talking, the UFC could have signed the greatest MMA fighter in history and the unquestioned #1 heavyweight in the world last week.
You don’t know that, for all we know the main sticking point in the deal was the UFC’s refusal to co-promote, something neither side was willing to budge on. I think if the UFC was willing to do that Fedor would have been signed fairly quickly.
If Strikeforce manages to put on one successful CBS show headlined by Fedor, there are a number of heavyweights on the UFC roster whose contracts will be over in 18 months. Fedor vs Randy Couture on CBS in late 2010? Fedor vs Chuck Liddell?
Fedor vs. Randy is already a fight that is losing steam by the day, you think it’s going to be any more interesting 16 months from now? And a fight with Chuck is even less interesting. Sure, it might draw in the casual base, but what makes you think that in a year Strikeforce is going to have the money to put on one of these fights at a cost of $4-5 million? Hell, SF might be out of business by then.
I certainly wouldn’t even put it past Brock Lesnar to screw over the UFC if he gets the chance. He’s jumped ship before.
Yeah, like Strikeforce will be able to pay him $5 million a fight.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 4, 2009 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
it seems very clear to me
that the co-promotion requirement was a poison pill to kill the UFC negotiations. What they are doing with Strikeforce is no where near as onerous as what they were demanding from the UFC.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
But they are still co-promoting
Just as they have done with EVERY OTHER promotion Fedor has been a part of. The only reason the SF deal is better is because they don’t bring in 10% of the revenue that the UFC does.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
In that case
Why are you blaming Dana for the failure of negotiations? They were never ever going to sign anyway.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Anti-Zuffa sentiment, that's all.
It’s ok to have a certain bend on an issue. Nothing wrong with that at all.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
But how do we know they were trying to kill negotiations because of Dana’s trash talking and not because of a desire to avoid fighting under the Unified Rules or because they didn’t want to risk Fedor’s record against the UFC’s top fighters?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Aug 4, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
We don't
That’s an assumption
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed entirely.
Kid Nate has been pushing the “Dana White’s past negotiation tactics killed the deal”-angle, and Luke has given the same opinion. I think most of the facts and actual statements that have come out recently suggest otherwise though. I’ve commented on this a couple of times and didn’t hear any responses that would give me any reason to buy into this theory they’re selling us.
by Meeaaat on Aug 4, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Lesnar Fedor happened...
even under the Strikeforce banner, it would be the biggest event in MMA history. I’m sure if they have a ‘chunk of the PPV’ clause in there $5 mil would be on the cards – provided neither of them lose any time soon. Anybody with rights to that fight would market the shit out of it.
like so many other potential money opponents for Fedor
Kimbo has been signed by the UFC.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
FEDOR vs. SETH PETRUZELLI!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
I'd bring Seth forty virgins
if he could pull that one off.
Dunno where I’d get ‘em, but I’d figure it out somehow.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
No
His contract most likely makes him property of the UFC for a year or so after the show, whether they fight him or not.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
Some people get cut, some people still get signed.
It would be pointless to let Kimbo just walk. The only way would be if he got destroyed in his first fight in the house and then quit or something.
It would be dumb to not at least use him for 1 spike card, if not more.
Right
Dana said Kimbo’s contract is much different from the standard TUF deal
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
if he were to win, he said it'd be different.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
You think they’re gonna give him 2 months of hype and buildup just to let him go sign elsewhere if he doesn’t win the whole thing?
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
if he loses, they’ll pick out (1.) the guy in the house easiest for Kimbo to beat. or (2.) the other loudest personality in the house and have them fight on the finale.
I would imagin Dana wants to make as much money off of Kimbo as he can.
I smell a Kimbo/Seth rematch on Spike to couterprogram Fedor vs. (insert #10-#30 HW here) on Showtime.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Exactly
They would probably like Kimbo to win, but he won’t so they’ll use him as best they can to draw in viewers
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
The next year will be key...
I think there is a year window now, for both the UFC and Strikeforce, to solidify their footing. Maybe 15 months. Basically, the UFC has to do what it can to destroy SF, to make it known that the pastures are not greener with SF, and that if any of their fighters jump ship, it would be a short term move that could jeapordize their careers. The UFC can do this by poaching top SF talent and counterprogramming, as well as using all legal venues to block Affliction fighters from fighting.
As for SF, they have to get those ratings. I think the time line is even shorter for them, because they need to build Fedor up to the N. American fans quickly and effectively. They have a decent shot at it, since Fedor would pretty much squash any of SF’s heavyweights, IMO. Whether the general public will get attached to the silent Russian destroyer is another variable.
I love me some Sexyama!
I love that UFC and SF are basically the only promotions left that matter. Like it or not Fedor has some pretty good fights to look forward to in SF. AT least, I’m looking forward to them. I’m writing this simply as a fan, BTW. I don’t care about financials and all that crap so please spare me. The EA videogame is a great thing for Strikeforce as well. Something EXC/Affliction/IFL all those dead promos didn’t have. I hope they do indeed get on CBS with Fedor headlining. Fedor, for free? Yes please!
GSP: I pulled my groin.
Greg Jackson: I don't care Georges! HIT HIM WITH YOUR GROIN!
I think the poll on Sherdog says it all..
If the hardcores can be swayed against the all mighty Fedor in less than a week.. Imagine what’s gonna happen when the UFC PR machine gets behind Dana to discredit Fedor for signing with SF..
Imagine whats gonna happen when Jim Rome starts calling out Fedor for ducking Brock & the UFC.. ?? Just imagine what will happen if/when Fedor loses ??
How are they going to market a man with zero marketability ?? The big case for the UFC was that people didnt care that Fedor would come to the UFC. They’re hoping he comes in to lose. He would be marketed as the best fighter ever, but people would tune in to see him fall.. not to succeed..
Just imagine what will happen if/when Fedor loses ??
This is a real possibility when you have guys like Overeem and Rogers. Honestly, I think Fedor beats anyone in the SF HW division, but it’s a real possibility someone like Rogers hits Fedor in the right spot and drops him.
I love me some Sexyama!
Ken Pavia (Rogers manager) on the UG:
…The Grim is going to introduce the old school MMA fans to something that is call reality. That is 290lbs of street that is not putting on an act. He is so not affraid and plans on giving the man a Minn beat down.
Pavia’s a crook.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s also a possiblity that Fedor’s stock soars if he destroys Rogers, Werdum, and Overeem inside one or two rounds, especially if any of those guys have tune-up fights in which they crush someone. We’ve seen the MMA community shift in one day before… it happened when Fedor declined the UFC deal.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Its a valid point...
But didnt he just recently destroy two much more known (and x UFC HW champs) in under a round in an org not named UFC?
How will stopming Rogers or AO or Werdum be anymore impressive to the casual fan?
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Yeah, I suppose that would be right as well. Although, casual fans hadn’t seen AA in the UFC in a long time, and most casuals didn’t like Sylvia’s style. But, that is a good point.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess the difference is that many many more people will see the SF fights than saw him in Affliction, so who knows, those 3 potential fights could do more for Fedor than the two Affliction beatdowns.
see… we’re both right.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
That’s possible. Affliction PPV model vs. Strikeforce’s Showtime model. Cheaper way to get viewers as you get a whole suite of channels for less than the cost of a UFC PPV. I don’t know if it’ll give them more subscribers though.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, iv heard quite a few comments around the MMA interwebs about fans getting Showtime then canceling it after the fight and paying a small fee of some type.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Well, Showtime isn’t very good for movies. Some of the original series are good, but I’m not a fan of the channel overall. Boxing and MMA is my only reason.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
if if if if if if if if....
All of Strikeforce/M1’s plans with Fedor begin with a huge “IF”. IF they can market him right (wighout fight footage?), IF they can get enough interest for a CBS fight, IF UFC’s counterprograming efforts dont work, IF Fedor wins all three fights… etc.
Seems like a huge investment on an IF. The risk/reward just doesnt add up to me at this point.
Were Fedor in the UFC, most of those “if’s” become “when’s”. He would be matched up against the most known fighter in the world, who happens to be the next highest ranked HW after Fedor. He would have the UFC hype machine fully behind him (All Access, Countdown, even a possible 3 part’er like GSP/Penn II had). UFC would have his Pride footage to show. He would be seen by an audience multiple times larger in his first fight than would see him in Strikeforce. etc, etc, etc…
It just seems like even though Strikeforce stole the most prized MMA free agent from the UFC, they just dont have the audience, solid business model, stable of competition, or right plan to profit off of someone like Fedor.
Of course, I love MMA and will enjoy Fedor’s fights even if it is against lesser competition, but Id much rather him fight the best of the best, not the best of the rest.
This common phenomenon is already taking place where people immediately elevate Fedor’s opponents (or potential opponents) status just because they are fighting Fedor. Overeem isnt any better today than he was 3 weeks ago, but now everyone seems fine with him fighting Fedor. Brett Rogers was still changing tires at Sam’s Club when Fedor had already beaten 5 former UFC HW champs a total of 8 times! He’s tough, and hits hard, but to say he deserves a shot at Fedor is laughable. Werdum? go ask 1000 people on the street what a gogoplata is… then ask the same 1000 people who Fabricio Werdum is… You should have the same number of yes’s for both questions.
Strikeforce signing Fedor is kind of like getting the keys to a brand new car, only you dont have a lisence to drive it, or money for gas…
I just dont see it working as well as Strikeforce hopes it will. They were doing well with their business model befor signing Fedor. But now thay have a fighter who costs more than he’s worth and they woke the sleeping giant to get him.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Of course, it is all “What Ifs”. I think that’s the most annoying thing for everyone. It’s a big waiting game. We won’t know for quite some time how everything is going.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
True.
I was coming from the angle that Fedor would be much much closer to a “sure thing” in the UFC. SF is paying for him but im not sure if they have the resources or know-how to use him properly.
Even if Brock beat him, more people would still watch Fedor fight Cain/Carwin/Randy/Nog/Mir/Kongo in the UFC afterwards than would watch him in SF even if he swept AO, Rogers and Werdum.
But yeah, the waiting game is awful. (95% confidence in Brock/Fedor at 103 sounded a lot better)
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
starting to notice a pattern with all of kid nates recent posts….
by brazary on Aug 4, 2009 2:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
“Dana is bad”
“No fighter bashing!”
“Aoki has pretty pants”
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 4, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
lol
sorry if i’m not fitting into your Dana good/Fedor bad paradigm.
No one seems to have noticed the point of the post.
The Tito acquisition forced Strikeforce to make a desperate lunge for Fedor.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
How does that follow?
They didn’t get someone that would make the UFC declare war, so they had to make a desperate lunge for someone that would make the UFC declare war? Why couldn’t SF just be happy with putting on good cards and making money?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
Unfortunately I think that all of this is going to fail but not due to Strikeforce, but rather because CBS/Showtime want big ratings far too quickly. Particularly when they need to do a better job promoting current stars (e.g. Gina) and future opponents for Fedor (not to mention Fedor himself, though with only 3 fights you want each of those to be against someone perceived by the casual viewer as a tough opponent), which will likely take more time than CBS/Showtime will give them (not to mention the promoting prowess displayed for the upcoming Carano/Cyborg match is woefully inadequate).
I hope I’m wrong, or at the very least we’ll get to see some entertaining fights for free.
because they're doing neither
they only have one headliner in Gina Carano and even she’s not enough to get them on CBS (yet).
Tito was the headliner they wanted, someone who could sell fights and get attention. Also he was a UFC washout so it wasn’t directly challenging them.
But once Tito was gone, there are no other headliners on the market, except Fedor.
With the Showtime deal, Strikeforce is on an upward or out trajectory. They can’t just keep selling out their home arena and thinking that’s enough. Showtime/CBS want more.
Plus Cung Le and Frank Shamrock are on their way out, so Nick Diaz has to carry the Sacramento market solo.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 4, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
With the Showtime deal, Strikeforce is on an upward or out trajectory. They can’t just keep selling out their home arena and thinking that’s enough. Showtime/CBS want more.
They could’ve hummed along as a profitable, successful company that put on good fights and a good product.
And now they’re going to go broke.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, they probably couldn’t. Eventually, the UFC could probably up their payroll scheme and take away all their relevant fighters. That might happen anyways.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it definitely will happen now.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Ultimately, this may be a problem for any promotion that has a fighter who can successfully beat run-of-the-mill UFC dropouts. It, at least, proves they can handle that type of competition, and if the performance is impressive, the UFC will probably want them. Raising their own payroll is going to drive everyone toward them.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is that a bad thing?
When your fighter is routinely beating UFC-level competition, the UFC gives him a raise and you send him off with your blessings. How fucking hard is that?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is it that you assume that my argument was to say it was a bad thing? Furthermore, why is it that the tone of your questioning day in and day out is consistently argumentative?
It isn’t a bad thing, nor did I state it as such. If the UFC can do that, it works for them if they maintain solid profits.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Ultimately, this may be a problem for any promotion that has a fighter who can successfully beat run-of-the-mill UFC dropouts,
That part where you said it? That’s why I assumed your argument was to say it was a bad thing. What I’m saying is it can be good for both the UFC and the org losing one of it’s top fighters – the UFC gets a new fighter, the smaller org gets recognition (they could lend out dude’s highlights for Zuffa usage on air, for instance) and if their guy doesn’t hack it he gets to come back with a nifty ‘UFC Veteran’ label for fight posters.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
How is that saying it’s a bad thing? All I said was that it may be a problem for those promotions. It doesn’t necessarily mean my opinion is that it’s a bad thing.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, I see.
If I were a regional promoter, I’d be happy to send off a successful champion to the Big Leagues.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
For fans, the UFC upping their payroll would eventually be a great thing. The UFC would probably attract everyone to their show, and we’d see all the best vs. best fights.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
This is, as you may have guessed, my dream – well paid fighters challenging themselves in the same place, under the same rules, over and over again.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know where the theory that the UFC doesn’t do this comes from though.
They constantly up the payroll, and anyone who has paid more than them has run out of money.
You can’t expect them to make boxing, football, basketball, hockey, whatever money when they are as young as they are and they don’t have the same money coming in.
CBS still hasn’t committed to a show. They will wait and see how the first Fedor show does on Showtime.
It just hits me that they’ve failed horribly at promoting so far since getting to Showtime. I don’t think they’ve shown anything suggesting they can figure out promoting Fedor. I get the feeling if they got Fedor vs. Randy handed to them they’d promote it around each’s favorite ice cream. They need some kind of consulting help with promoting pronto.
by Michael Rome on Aug 4, 2009 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I think they’ve failed at promoting the Carano fight as well, and that could spell disaster. CBS is waiting for solid numbers, and they may not get them due to the incompetence in promoting the Aug. 15th card.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think that’s the key here.
When it comes to MMA, no one has been able to promote like the UFC.
DREAM does ok in Japan. Strikeforce can fill up an arena in CA. M1 can have shows in Europe (I have no idea how do).
Will some combination of the 3 of these and EA be able to match what the UFC does? I have my doubts.
People greatly overvalue the importance of EA here. They dominate sports video games when they went out and got exclusive licensing rights to the big leagues, so to assume they’ll do something different with MMA when they have no license is a bit of a stretch to me.
There’s a chance this could work, but I don’t think they’ll be able to catch up with the UFC as quickly as they’ll need to with the added pressure of Fedor being on board.
EA is huge…. but Iv lost several hundred hours playing Tony Hawk video games, however, id rather watch paint dry than the X games.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
great point,i feel the same way.
and it’s true w/e my non hardcore friends watch strikeforce…well they can’t watch it b/c their production is sadly so cheap.
dream and ufc are great at putting on a good visual show,the same reason why espn is the sports network leader.
strikeforce is gonna have 2 ascend 2 another level in less than 13 days.but i know i’m still watching.
Just heard the tail-end of Jim Rome discussin Fedor going to SF on his radio show.
I know most people dislike or love to dislike Jim Rome, but I love the guy. Always entertaining. and talk about a 180 turnaround on MMA. He talks MMA at least twice a week on his show now (radio).
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Atta boy, Romey
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright... Chris
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Actually, ESPN News ticker said Fedor signed with Strikeforce because UFC wouldn’t co-promote and is part owner of M-1. It still amazes me they didn’t go with something as Fedor is afraid of Brock. Good job ESPN News.
Remember you said that because pretty soon people will start accusing ESPN as being “bought and paid for” like they do yahoo sports…
ONLY ONE MMA CAN SURVIVE
Defending Heavyweight Champion MMA “=)” Supremacy will look to retain his belt against top contender MMA “I GAURANTEE” Logic for the undisputed Bloody Elbow Propaganda Belt of the world.
The Ultimate Fighting Championship presents a card for the ages UFC 101: Shilling* on August 15th at the Mandalay Bay Center and Arena in Las Vegas.
ONLY ON PPV
*alongside co-promoters Affliction, M-1, Strikeforce, Dream, Sengoku, Bodog, Bellator, YAMMA, KOTC, and WARGODS
by Sokonojudo on Aug 4, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awesomeness...
Though, it should be:
mma “100% Guaranteed…I drive Bentley GT and make $300 an hour..well…well…well…kneel to Zod.. m’f*ckers” logic
…if you ask me.
=)
Colin Cowherd and his sportsnation show just said the same thing.
He also thinks that nobody will watch carono v cyborg b/c most males do not want 2 see women fight and bloody each other up(i guess we only care if whip cream and/or mud is involved)
but he said guy’s might watch it if they find carano sexy enough 2 keep their interest.
his co-host,is female, said she’s all 4 women’s fighting n thinks other women feel the same way
at least mma is getting coverage!!!!
only caught a minute of it...
but he said it was a mistake on Fedor’s part. From the part i heard, he didnt seem too educated on the role of M1 in all of it though,
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
The only thing worse than Jim Rome’s show is Jim Rome’s goatee.
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Aug 4, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hated the guy until
i saw the clip of him repeatedly calling JIM Everett, CHRIS Everett (sp?).
Romey’s got balls.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
What? The UFC and Fertittas Love To Co-Promote
Lorenzo Fertitta prior to UFC 31 in May of 2001 when he described Zuffa’s vision for the growth of MMA:
"We believe that there is certainly enough room for everybody to be successful in this sport, and for this sport to grow and evolve, you need to have organizations work with each other as opposed to trying to break each other down."
They believe workign with others is how the sport will grow. When they sent Chuck to PRIDE and he fought Overeem and Rampage. MMA at its finest right there. I have to agree with Lorenzo here.
=)
Things change
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you blame them for things changing? How did that working together end up working out? When did all the Pride fighters come back to uphold their half of the bargain.
CO-promtion entails that both sides would benefit, at least somewhat close to equally. The terms presented by Gary were in no way beneficial to the UFC, so it doesn’t make any sense for them to accept them.
by Phildo on Aug 4, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just b/c Pride screwed them, doesn't mean they can NEVER Co-Promote again...
But, I agree, in this case it makes zero sense to do it w/ a company who can’t carry their share of the load.
"Not everything that is faced can be changed. But nothing can be changed until it is faced."
-James Arthur Baldwin
Forget About Co-Promoting
Just read this part:
“We believe that there is certainly enough room for everybody to be successful in this sport, and for this sport to grow and evolve, you need to have organizations work with each other as opposed to trying to break each other down.”
=)
UFC 31: Locked and Loaded was a mixed martial arts event held by the Ultimate Fighting Championship at the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City, New Jersey on May 4, 2001. The event was seen live on pay per view in the United States, and later released on home video.
Things change in 8 (lucrative) years
There was room back then.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
It’s like me opening a burger shop out of my kitchen and wanting mcdonalds to do a 50/50 split with me just because I have a good cheeseburger recipe. Get real, it’s fucking ludicrous.
by Michael Rome on Aug 4, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Don’t you have super moderator powers to hide this and reply at the proper place?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
He does. I’m the only one who takes advantage of this, though.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Well, on each person’s “Inspect Member” page there’s a list of how their comments have been moderated. For instance, since last October you’ve had three comments hidden or deleted.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Where do I find this page? The best I can find is ‘View Recent Activity’
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this is another moderator thing.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Yeah. I miss it when I’m on a blog I don’t moderate.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Aug 4, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Does that count include ones hidden because of a comment above it being moderated?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
No.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Aug 4, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm…would like to know what I said.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
No idea.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Man, I want these stats on myself! And what about recs?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
You’ve received 326 recs, 3 inappropriate flags ad 2 troll flags. You’ve had one comment deleted and been warned once.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Compare that to subo’s 1130 recs received.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
Ooh, ooh, do me too
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
Last One
16 comments hidden (11 by me).
1 warning.
0 flags received.
448 recommends received.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
I am just putting it out there, and in no way I am implying that they co-promote with M-1. Just pointing out Zuffa’s mindset just a few years ago.
If by 'a few' you mean 'eight'
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Quote was from 8 years ago, Chuck fought in PRIDE in Nov. of 2003 when he got his first Rampage beat down, so more like 6 years ago.
=)
Iole Mailbag: “The Fedor Show”:
• Emelianenko-Overeem: Overeem has good hands and would have a size advantage on the Russian, but Overeem has been highly inconsistent in his career while Emelianenko has been the very definition of consistency.
You can’t rule a guy with Overeem’s power, strength and grappling skills out, but Emelianenko is far more gifted and would defeat Overeem in the first round.
• Emelianenko-Rogers: Until he faced Andrei Arlovski, Brett Rogers had never beaten anyone of note and it would have been a huge stretch to suggest he would ever be in a fight against Emelianenko.
Rogers knocked out Arlovski in just 22 seconds in June and proved his power is legitimate. But he has nowhere near Emelianenko’s all-around game. Rogers could win if he could hit Emelianenko with a wild shot, but the more likely scenario is that the fight gets to the ground and Emelianenko submits Rogers early.
• Emelianenko-Buentello: Buentello isn’t close to having the kind of all-around game to defeat "The Last Emperor."
• Emelianenko-Werdum: Werdum has a good all-around game, but you never know what you will get from him. He has good jiu-jitsu and judo and his stoppage of Gabriel Gonzaga proves he has the power.
But he looked horrific in a loss to Arlovski in 2007 and was blown out by Junior Dos Santos last year.
A focused Werdum has the complete game to make it a fight, but Emelianenko would find a way to win around the midpoint of the bout.
I’ole’s “Fedor Is To Blame 100%” piece was priceless.
Can always count on a good laugh from Ioleeey.
=)
Yahoo and Iole are very pro-zuffa. You dont hit an MMA link on that site, you hit a UFC link.
Also remember Iole also was the first to call Randy Couture greedy after the split with the UFC.
He’s not a complete retard or anything. He’s been trumpeting Carwin and Vasquez before it was popular.
Not an idiot
Just a complete company mouthpiece shill.
Next somebody is going to say that Billy Mays DIDN’T think the “Mighty putty” was the greatest invention of all time?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Changing the UFC link was to get more people to look at their content. Most people know UFC, not MMA. Their football link is NFL for example.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
that’s because they’re obvious nfl shills.
by Phildo on Aug 4, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pro-Zuffa and shill are totally different. There are lots of pro-Zuffa commenters on this site. Are they all shills?
Yahoo.ca is still an MMA link...or at least it is when I visit.
Interesting that they would only change the .com one.
Meltzer on Fedor
Was the centerpiece, lead story on the top page of Yahoo sports last night. No other major sports website led with Fedor yesterday. Not ESPN, not FOX, not SI. They had Fedor as a headline link at best.
You can say what you want about individual writers, but Yahoo gives the whole sport of MMA bigger play than any of the major sports site.
Not just Fedor... What if Gina loses?
Cyborg isn’t exactly as marketable as Gina & has an excellent shot at beating the poster girl of MMA.
With the Gina-Cyborg signing we acknowledged it as no big deal, Strikeforce being the home for women’s MMA & Dana being hesitant to commit to a female division.
But with the acquisition of Fedor, it’s obvious Strikeforce is looking to compete on the highest level now. Regardless of whether or now Showtime was pushing them to do so. So it’s game on for the UFC, time to crush the competition – not because they don’t want what’s best for MMA, they want to be MMA. They’re a business afterall, so don’t fault them for aggressively trying to bring Strikeforce down now.
As for Fedor in the UFC, I think the future is clear after everything that happened these past few days – Fedor will never fight in the UFC:
- Fedor has never considered himself “the best”
- Fedor doesn’t feel the need to “prove himself”
- Fedor is not a MMA “fan” (he doesn’t watch fights or want to go to them)
- Fedor simply doesn’t care about whether he fights in the UFC or not
- Fedor doesn’t care about being “famous”
- Fedor doesn’t care about where HE will make the most money
- Fedor is content sitting back & letting Vadim make all his decisions for him
- Fedor definitely likes icecream
He’s beaten a lot of cans as well as quality opponents. But he’s shown vulnerability. If he was in the UFC he would not remain undefeated forever… and I think it’s only a matter of time before he loses outside of the UFC as well.
Rogers can KO him. Overeem’s tough. Werdum has submissions (but is a snoozer that’s not gonna go over well on CBS/Showtime regardless).
As for Kimbo… if he were to lose the 1st round on TUF, Dana would still keep him. If he lost his 1st fight in the UFC, Dana would still keep him. Same with his 2nd. I’m guessing Kimbo has 3 UFC fights outside of TUF before Dana let him go. With 3-4 months in-between those fights, that would tie Kimbo up long enough to 1) squeeze the most money out of his name, 2) keep Strikeforce from selling Kimbo vs Fedor, & 3) prove to the ignorant & very casual fans that UFC fighters are monsters compared to Kimbo “YouTube” Slice.
Brock, Chuck & Tito aren’t leaving UFC to fight Fedor, that much I guarantee.
The odds are definitely now against Strikeforce.
Keep Swillin',
Bruz
If Gina loses the fight…. the world keeps on spinnin. Unless Cyborg rips her breasts, thighs, ass and smile off.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Aug 4, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this will not work because...
fedor is: a) a funny looking guy, b) with a funny name, c) with zero personality & d) fighting watered down competition. strikeforce is going to bleed cash, good luck your golden ticket is very tarnished.
You can’t be serious.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Give me a break.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
While I think you are correct that M-1 was not interested in signing with the UFC, I don’t think the deal would have been done even if Dana had kept his mouth shut.
They have ALWAYS made it clear that co-promotion is the only way that Fedor will compete.
Also,
I am not a major Lesnar fan, but your shot is unwarrented. He disliked pro-wrestling and quit. It is not as though he left the WWE for more money with another pro wrestling company.
One very big aspect here is whether or not the UFC signs a network deal. If so, it is very untlikely that anyone will walk away.
Spike TV has made the UFC.....
I think people are too focused on network TV to realize why the UFC has been so successful. I’m not saying CBS won’t be successful with Strikeforce, but I believe they won’t be even close the UFC anytime soon and here’s why….
1. We know how big TUF was for getting the UFC off the ground, and how big this season is going to be.
2. Spike CONSTANTLY plays UFC programming OVER AND OVER. CBS and/or Showtime isn’t going to put that kind of time commitment into Strikeforce.
3. People will look at Strikeforce as the minor leagues. The UFC had the history behind it, and as pissed of as “branding” makes me, it’s the way products exist in America.
Strikeforce has an uphill battle. As long as they don’t try to get too big too fast they will be here for a long time.
There are so many things wrong with this article I almost don’t know where to start but here we go…
Dana can counter program Strikeforce all he wants (which he was probably going to be forced to do anyway) and it’s highly likely that Strikeforce and Showtime/CBS will fail in what they’re trying to do. But the reality is this, had Dana White not made an enemy of Fedor in the original PRIDE acquisition and continued to make it worse with 18 months of epic (and pointless) smack talking, the UFC could have signed the greatest MMA fighter in history and the unquestioned #1 heavyweight in the world last week.
It’s one thing to drink the kool-aid it’s another to take a bath in it, Fedor being the #1 greatest thing every in the history of sports is ridiculous and reeks of fanboyism it really needs to stop.
Secondly if Fedor is butthurt because Dana swears too fucking bad, the self importance that M1 and Fedor have of themselves as compared to what they mean to the rest of the mma fanbase is incredible.
The coalition of Fedor/Strikeforce/DREAM/CBS/EA Sports could be a very formidable combination. If Strikeforce manages to put on one successful CBS show headlined by Fedor, there are a number of heavyweights on the UFC roster whose contracts will be over in 18 months. Fedor vs Randy Couture on CBS in late 2010? Fedor vs Chuck Liddell? I certainly wouldn’t even put it past Brock Lesnar to screw over the UFC if he gets the chance. He’s jumped ship before.
Again what is with this fantasy talk, you’re meaning to tell me that Randy is going to leave huge paydays in the UFC to go and fight for pennies in another promotion?. Stop it it’s getting embarrasing to see people throw out ridiculous situations that will never happen all so they can try and spin how SF signing Fedor is a good thing.
The only thing that coalition is going to do is join all the others who thought they could fight the UFC and win, the IFL/WFA/Elite/Affliction/Trump/Cuban/HDNET in the mma graveyard.
by Raker on Aug 4, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
fedor is the #1 greatest thing ever in the history of mma….
by Headkick on Aug 4, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not even close. He just hasn’t lost in the thinnest division in MMA.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
nuh uh. im right, no backsies….
seriously, i do believe he is the greatest. there are some more technical or who are more athletic, but mentally he is unbreakable. i envy that and want that. i would train with team red devil in a heartbeat.
i think maybe opinions are divided between those who compete in martial arts and those who dont. you dont fight,right? i’m not trying to discount your opinion, i’m just trying to figure out how two people who I presume have seen all the same fights can feel so differently.
So Dana hurting Fedor’s feelings is what killed the deal…
It had nothing to do with the fact that M-1 is pissed Zuffa is growing so fast overseas and that was supposed to be “their territory”.
It has nothing to do with their “agendas” that is apparent with them lying to mousasi about Zuffa’s offer.
It has nothing to do with M-1 deciding they rather Fedor fight easier competition.
People are so fickle…
HELLO… Tito Ortiz was just a free agent. Before you start counting your chickens with “Brock leaving” or “couture v Fedor” at least look at the present and if you can afford to give a little more thought look at the past.
Affliction also had a 3 fight deal… IT COST THEM 4M dollars in guaranteed money to get ARLOVSKI who is hardly one of the stars at Zuffa.
Instead ask yourself which one of these strikeforce fighters (rogers and overeem) will be willing to fight Fedor on their current contracted pay… now that Zuffa is opening its hand that if their contract completes without a loss there is big money waiting for them.
So before this fedor coalition can even start thinking about taking Zuffa fighters – which will never happen – they need to worry about Zuffa taking their possible opponents off the table or making them more expensive before their contracts are fulfilled.
Striekforce needs 500k viewers on showtime to bring CBS to the table. What viewers is Fedor bringing to the table that didn’t already watch strikeforce? Their past few shows did around 300k or less.
Based on M-1’s multiple agendas this is not a horrible deal for them. .. they are not sharing in the costs. They are getting 50% of the gate to make up for some of the difference between ZUffa’s pay and strikeforces pay and they are getting the overseas rights to the shows to try and make up the rest and market M-1.
If Fedor wins his next 3 fights then he’ll have more equity but he’s already over valued. so his equity might get closer to half his asking price.
They are ducking the UFC gauntlet which almost no fighters have survived to fight easy competition.
by mmalogic on Aug 4, 2009 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
They are protecting Fedro’s record. Pure and simple.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 4, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
just riddle me this
Who does Dana’s shit talking benefit?
What purpose does it serve to insult Fedor?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
It probably doesn’t even cross their mind. That’s the funny part.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn’t benefit… I wish he would simply read a well prepared statement – but to think it’s his statements that killed the deal you are kidding yourself.
Dana and Lorenzo called their bluff and gave in on pretty much every issue… then all of a sudden they have new “issues” that they never brought up before like sharing in 50% of the profits. Their bluff was called and they tucked and ran.
This is “Frank Shamrock” redux.
by mmalogic on Aug 4, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do you recall Frank Shamrock saying he wouldnt fight in the UFC unless he got half the company or some stupid shit like that… This is all a ploy.
Look how long the fanboys bought into his shit until his own handpicked opponents started kicking his ass… The Fedor camp is trying to do the same thing so the fanboys can say “oh it was because Dana hurt his feelings” or “oh its because Dana wouldnt give away half his business”.
The only winner in all of this is M1. The fans, strikeforce and Fedor are the losers here.
by mmalogic on Aug 4, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They are ducking the UFC gauntlet which almost no fighters have survived to fight easy competition.
That Anderson Silva guy and Machida guy coming over from Japan sure put a good beating on the UFC gauntlet. They should go back and fight in Japan where the competition is easier.
=)
“…almost no fighters…”
You give two examples of guys who have survived. Two doesn’t seem like a small number to you? Also, what purpose does referencing a Chris Leben quote serve other than to make it harder to take your arguments seriously?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
The point is that Silva and Machida faced the gauntlet and won. Fedor hasn’t. You’re pulling a red herring. When things make sense, you should just accept it.
It's over?
If what you say is right:
Why just Zuffa did not give up and move on definitely ?
You are yourself saying that Fedor will never fight in the UFC , give a lot of supposed reasons and yet you can’t explain your thought on Fedor still fighting in the UFC for his next fight.
Have you finally gave up on Fedor fighting in the UFC for his next fight? It seems that yes.
Fedor and the UFC Guantlet
I don’t really see much of a guantlet in the UFC Heavyweight division. Outside of Lesner of course, who I will concede might be the most dangerous man on the planet., the next best fighter might very well be Randy Couture. Carwin. Cain. Their names keep popping up like they’re the next HOF, but the juries still out. And on top of that, they have to fight each other, which means really only one is a contender for Brock in the next year. So if Fedor had come to the UFC and beaten Brock, his guantlet would have been Cain or Carwin followed by Randy or Nog or Dos Santos or Cro Crop. Is that really murderer’s row? (Again Lesnar would be the real test0
Note: The UFC HW depth is great now. The TUF and Affliction additions have strengthened it greatly. I know that. I am only talking about top tier contenders.
Now in Strikeforce-M1-Dream who will he face? Overeem – a solid fight. Not Brock but nothing to laugh at. Rogers if he can beat Werdum. Another top 10 opponent. After that? How about the Dream-Sengoku Heavyweight tourney winner? That fighter is bound to be top 10 after four straight wins. And if it’s Barnett? Wow talk about a gimmic. Of course, maybe Rogers and Carwin knock Fedor and Lesnar out and the whole thing gets put to rest.
Regardless of who you think is good enough, it’s beside the point. The best fighters of the past (Couture), current (Lesnar), and future (Cain, Carwin), etc are in the UFC. That’s the gauntlet.
Let’s not forget that had CroCop and Nogueira never fought in the UFC, people would still think they’re the best fighters in the world and guys like Gonzaga and Mir wouldn’t be able to touch them. What fans believe and what is reality are two separate things. The guys you think may not be a challenge to Fedor may very well beat him if they fought.
Carwin is older than Fedor.
And who decided than Carwin and Velasquez were the future instead of Rogers, Roger Gracie, Ishii or Del rosario?
Plus Fedor already beat Nog and Mirko very decisively. Randy will be going on 47 if Fedor ever fights him.
It’s been a while since I saw the fight, but I though CroCop acquitted himself fairly well in that fight. Fedor controlled it no doubt, but he didn’t finish him. Gonzaga, who barely cracks most people’s top tens murdered Cro Cop and head kicks aren’t as “lucky” as say a guy jumping into your fist. I haven’t seen either of the Nog fights, but those were by decision as well, where as Frank Mir was the only guy to actually stop him.
Does this mean I think Mir and Gonzaga are better than Fedor? No, just that I think they’d provide tougher competition than the last few guys he’s fought or will fight in Strike Force.
I’d love to see Frank Mir on the ground with a guy roughly the same size as him instead of a beast like Brock. I doubt Fedor is as suffocating as Brock is.
How does the Gonzaga that KOed Cro Cop match up?
I don’t know. Having seen Werdum and Rogers fight, I can’t see how they would be more appealing than:
Mir (probably the best jiu-jitsu guy at heavyweight)
Gonzaga (motivated, he can do good stuff)
Couture (ultimate game planner)
Carwin (much bigger than the wrestlers Fedor has faced in the past)
Brock
And when did Overeem suddenly a legitimate challenge Fedor? After he tried to turn Cro Cop into a Eunich? When he didn’t defend his title in going on two years? Did I miss something? He’s lost to pretty much every big name he’s ever fought, including Wedum, who had the next title shot, and twice to Big Nog, who was people constantly point out, lost to Fedor twice.
The only thing going for Overeem is that he will still be champ of his promotion when/if he fights Fedor and that might motivate him to put on a big time performance.
