Scott Coker Talks Fedor on the Carmichael Dave Show
by Nick Thomas on Aug 4, 2009 11:33 AM EDT
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Scott Coker was also on Tapout Radio (audio):
- Fedor was the hottest free agent on the market
- We were bidding against 4 or 5 people (including UFC)
- I'm very lucky we have Fedor on board
- We are going to co-promote with M-1, M-1 doesn't get 50% of Strikeforce, it's just a revenue split of the event
- I’d like to see Brett Rogers, Fabricio Werdum and Alistair Overeem against Fedor
- We have an alliance with DREAM
- We are talking about having a card with the best of DREAM, K-1, M-1 and Strikeforce (Manhoef vs. Lawler or Aoki vs. Thomson)
- This will be the first time you see Fedor fight in a cage
- We'll have an opponent named by a press conference on Thursday
"Although the deal with Strikeforce is an exclusive one, it’s far from a contract signed in blood as Fedor is currently contractually obligated to fight for Strikeforce for just one year."
"Basically it’s three fights over the next year, and we’ll start in the Fall some time…The very first fight that Fedor fights will be on Showtime, and then the roll-out of television from there forward hasn’t been determined 100%, but his first fight will be on Showtime."
"[Fedor] and Alistair Overeem should be an amazing fight, and people that haven’t seen Alistair, you know, he’s an amazing fighter.. I think we should do a couple of fights and build that one up, and then let their champion fight our champion, and let’s see what happens."
"We’re hoping that Alistair will be ready to fight in the Fall, and we can put him on one of the cards with Fedor, and not fight against each other but fight against someone else, and let’s build that fight up."
HT: Sports1140.com, fiveouncesofpain.com, weoweoweo
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I listened to this last night… Most notably, Fedor’s first fight WILL BE on SHOWTIME.
by Leland Roling
Well, Fedor’s signing with Strikeforce is further justifying my subscription to Showtime. So, I have that going for me, which is nice.
by Brett Jones
M-1 Dreamforce
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
WOW – Vadim gets to take down 2 organizations for the price of one!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Ugh, give me a break. That’s been the worst trend in every Fedor article.
Someone even said he brought down RINGS… I mean, come on.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
His name value couldn’t keep the companies making money. That is for sure.
At this point, you could put Brock Lesnar on an internet only feed that charged $10, and the company could turn a profit.
Some people sell as a headliners. Some people don’t. Fedor doesn’t.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 4, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s such a bullshit excuse. You have a case for Affliction, but people saying that he screwed RINGS over are completely delusional. He didn’t even have a name back then. BodogFIGHT was already in financial rubble. PRIDE died from losing a TV deal because of the Yakuza connection. I mean, it’s misinformation at its finest.
Affliction… yeah, you can make a case. The rest… give me a break.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think you are getting what I am saying.
When Fedor is the champion of an organization, their business suffers. He is not a draw in Japan, America, or Russia. or any country for that matter.
Was it his fault that the organizations went out of business? No. However, it has been proven that his name as champion can’t save a company. It has been proven time and time again.
Put Lesnar on top of any card by any company, and that company will not go out of business because he is such a draw. The same can’t be said for Fedor.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 4, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m coming off my initial point. You’re point is valid. It always has been. I’m simply stating that the assumption that he sinks promotions is absurd.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
K-1 at the Coliseum disagrees. They had Lesnar as a main event.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 4, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Much as I like dinging on Brock, I think that show had other problems. :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
that was a really fun show… sak vs gracie sucked but it was a fun show…. i was there and people were haveing a great time, not sure why people hated on it?
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
Oh, I’m not saying he did it with his paychecks.
I say he took down those organizations with THE POWER OF HIS SAMBO!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
I’d add the promotion that would become Adrenaline in there as well. The Monte Cox M-1 promotion was supposed to be this colossus, this great legendary thing, and yet they put Tim Sylvia against Ray Mercer in their main event.
M-1 certainly didn’t destroy the Monte Cox promotion in the same way it can be argued they destroyed Affliction, but their relationship can most certainly be categorized as a failure.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
Yeah, he probably invented abortion and created Hitler too.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Flagged for fighter-bashing.
Also, Godwin’s law.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 4, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
LOL
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Vadim, I hear YAMMA is looking to co-promote another event. Give ’em a call.
by MusicCityBeatdown on Aug 4, 2009 10:04 AM EDT reply actions
If you're a lazy asshole...
Most notably, Fedor’s contract is for three fights while he still is within a four-fight deal with M-1. The first fight will, in fact, be on Showtime, not on CBS, and Coker stated that an opponent had yet to be determined yet. Names that have been thrown around are Brett Rogers, Fabricio Werdum, Alistair Overeem, and Sergei Kharitonov. I wouldn’t put it past Coker to even bring in someone like Jeff Monson either.
The co-promotion deal was stated as being much like the Affliction deal in that it isn’t a 50% deal in which M-1 is a part of Strikeforce as some sites have speculated. It is a revenue share for only the events in which Fedor Emelianenko is a part of the main event. It will be a “Strikeforce & M-1 presents” moniker to the show.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Furthermore...
DREAM – Strikeforce – M-1 alliance.
Kharitonov was the most notable opponent Coker talked about in taking on Fedor… not intriguing.
Manhoef vs. Lawler will be epic! And Fedor will probably be put on some NYE shows. If DREAM buries the hatchet with Sengoku for NYE, we could see Barnett vs. Fedor I suppose.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
He won't fight overeem immediately..
…I don’t see how they can give Werdum a fight with Fedor coming off a KO loss.. and yep, Kharintonov isn’t appealing to anyone… So i guess/hope it’s Rogers..
yes, Manhoef vs. Lawler would be epic.. and Aoki vs Thompson would be entertaining too..
The contract is for three fights in one year…. If the UFC succeeds at delaying the fight when they go to court, i wouldn’t be surprised if Fedor’s contract expires with less than 3 fights (maybe even zero if the UFC really has a strong case with the affliction contracts).
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 4, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought the same thing about the Affliction fight left remaining.. We are all wrong.. I found he was signed directly to M1 and Affliction was just the base promotion for him to perform in. Again it’s a case of Fedor’s handlers being great at manipulating the idiotic.. lol
PRIDE nor BoDog Nor Affliction ever had Fedor locked down.. M1 somehow could though ..lol
You found?
I thought everyone knew this already. I’m almost positive in almost any dealing Fedor has done with the exception of maybe PRIDE… Fedor was on lockdown by M-1. Hence why I thought the whole contract dispute was bullshit to begin with. Maybe that was part of the debate though, but I was always under the assumption that M-1 had him under lockdown, and all the UFC rumor mill bull regarding how the UFC could stop his fight was hogwash.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
YEah I meant I found out before he signed on with the Affliction thing.. M1 locked him down when Sibling Sports LLC came in the picture with Montey Cox as the President of M1.. I’m not sure how that all played out, but either way it left Fedor on bored and attached to M1 for 6 fights..
Hence Fedor is signed to M1 and not Afflcition.. So the 1 fight remaining wasn’t to Affliction. It was contracted to Affliction to promote. The terms of the contract are owed to M1.
Hence why Coker said Fedor was still locked in with M-1 for four-fights. The whole co-promotion ordeal only takes fights off his M-1 contract. The three-fight deal with Strikeforce is simply terms as to how long he’ll fight for Strikeforce, but he’s ultimately taking fights off his M-1 contract. It works perfectly.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Overeem vs. Fedor is the holy grail for Strikeforce, so obviously that’s why Coker said it’s a build-up that will be required. Werdum will beat Kyle most likely, so doing Werdum vs. Fedor seems stupid still with that win. Fedor vs. Rogers is more likely.
The UFC won’t succeed in delaying the fight. That rumor is such hogwash. Coker already stated that the Mousasi vs. Babalu rumors are untrue. He didn’t say there wasn’t a C&D, but it seems to me his overly confident that the fight will happen. If the UFC does end up having a case, so what? They don’t give a revenue split unless Fedor is on the card, so it works out for Strikeforce regardless… and they got a bunch of PR from the signing.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I want to see Fedor in the UFC against Brock,
but i hope youre right and he doesn’t get stuck in contract limbo..
Fedor vs Werdum Sucks.. pls don’t do it coker.. A fight with Rogers and AO are the only two fights i’m interested in.. well actually the rogers fight would be kinda.. mehh.. but it would be a good build up for a fight against AO..
also, it’s hard to be happy for Strikeforce, when you are also worried about them dying cause of the same reason..
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 4, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m almost positive that M-1 entered into a contract with Affliction to have Fedor fight for Affliction, but that M-1 maintains the sole rights to him. He’s probably free to do whatever he wants, and the problem is that the UFC probably has to file some sort of seizure or something in order to actually STOP the fight on 2 weeks notice.
If the UFC has the power, I’m sure it’ll come up after the fight happens in some sort of lawsuit, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. I mean, I’m not against it since I’d rather see these guys in the UFC, but I just don’t see it.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Lol @
Robbie V Melvin.
Prepare the stretchers.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 4, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I know there was still a lot of people that didn’t understand the 50% split, but in relative terms, it still the same thing. Fedor is not worth 50% of any promotions business. He is one fighter, & without another marquee name across the ring or cage to sell him, he cant fight. He doesn’t draw on his own anyways..
So for the cards he is on, they at that point have to give up 50% of their market share for said event.. Co promotion is all fine and dandy for the fans, It leads them to believe they get to see the fights that everyone wants to see, but the real problem is that it all boils down to money. So the business side doesn’t have a lot of positive in a co-promotion. SF has to co-promote, they, like the other promotions, simply don’t generate enough income to stand on their own. They don’t. have enough money to support a bigger franchise. So for them co-promotion makes sense to sustain themselves and split cost & returns evenly. But that also henders you capability to build yourself up. The more hands in the pocket leaves less change … Does it not ??
The UFC has built their brand from the ground up. They have been in the green for the past 3-4 years outdoing the year previous in each successive year. What benefit does it make to allow someone to come in on any card and get 50% of it ?? Regardless if it’s simply that one card ?? And especially when the fighter they bring in doesn’t have a great track record to pull any profit from ??
Honestly, it isn’t that bad of a deal. We aren’t talking UFC money here, Strikeforce doesn’t make insane amounts of money, so with Fedor on the card… they may actually make 2x the money because it’s not HUGE amounts.
If Fedor can’t fight, Strikeforce doesn’t have to share revenue for other events. Works out good, in my mind.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but that’s all speculation at this point.. SF took a gamble on a name, not a draw.. It was a huge risk vs. reward type play..
Mainly because SF cant afford him on their own.. So they are reliant upon other businesses to help support their endeavors.. IT’s like throwing good money at bad money.. It’s like playing the stock market when you know the price of the stock is going to drop from NASDAQ to OTC.. lol
What happens if somewhere down the line the business relationship turns south for let’s say Showtime.. They pull out… Then what ??? How can SF afford to uphold their end without the financial support of the other businesses ?? See where I’m going with this ?? Now how can SF make 2x the amount on returns when they have to split the pot 3 ways ?? Fedor doesn’t warrant that type of return.. His numbers are abysmal at best..
Well, we don’t know those details of the contract terms. CBS/Showtime might be bound to paying that half of the salary, regardless of if they pull out of the promotion business with Strikeforce. Coker surely isn’t an idiot, and I’m sure he has that set in stone.
Besides, it’s only a one-year deal. CBS/Showtime can pull out later after the one-year, and Coker can just say… I can’t afford Fedor. Done deal. Fedor can move on.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
SF is signed on with SHOWTIME.. Showtime has an option in the deal to televise cards on CBS. CBS has no financial bond to any deal with SF. CBS is the parent company of Showtime.. But CBS has absolutely no ties to SF or Fedor.. Their deal was done exclusively between SF/Showtime & M1..
And your point is what? I knew all of that already, but I’m seeing no point to what you’re saying. CBS does have ties. They are the parent company. Regardless of what you believe in the exclusivity of the deal, CBS still has power over Showtime and they are likely interested in the profits and revenues regarding the MMA promotion’s deal with Showtime.
But anyways… that still has nothing to do with my previous comment. Showtime could be locked in with Strikeforce to PAY for half of Fedor’s salary for the remainder of his contract. Even if they pull out, they would still have to pay. Contract ends, and Fedor leaves because Coker doesn’t have Showtime anymore. Coker can move on.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with what your point is and everything you’ve said.. :)
I was just pointing out that in business, it’s always better to be able to stand on your own. If you cant sustain a market share on your own for your own endeavors, then some time’s it can be very risky to say the least. The more you have to bring in to split the bill means the less you’re going to make if you’re in the green when it’s all said and done..
And while you argue that “you” knew some of the things I’ve pointed out, there are “MANY” that are reading that didn’t.. It can be very confusing to many that don’t understand the business side, but are still relatively interested in knowing little details.
I’m confused about all of this.
I get how the UFC makes money on PPV cards: they sell tickets to the event and PPVs – each purchase gets divvied up between the UFC/fighters/service/arena/tickemaster/whatever. But on TV, doesn’t the network just sign them a check up front?
So how is Fedor going to double their profits? Is Coker going to argue to Showtime that he’s worth more? Raise ticket prices? We need an article on how Strikeforce makes money…
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
No SF has to ‘pay" to be on the network.. They have to put up a “retainer fee” and then negotiate a deal. Their deal is not with CBS. It’s with Showtime. Showtime will probably do the same as they did for EliteXC and front the cost of production and venue. SF pays the salaries. The money generated is from Showtime subscriptions. Once they opt to go on regular broadcast CBS for a televised card, they’ll be looking to sell Advertising slots in their show.. The key is how appealing is it going to be for advertisers on a CBS card.. Showtime I’m sure has opted to foot some of the Fedor signing bill. However, dont be fooled into thinking they didnt cover there end like they did with EliteXC.. All money spent on anything related to MMA in their deal is owed back by SF "if the event doesn’t materialize enough to cover expenses.. It’s more of a marker or loan if you will..
If the subscriptions dont cover the cost in production and venue then Showtime will drop them like a psychotic girlfriend.. It pretty much loks to be the same deal EliteXC had as well.. CBS has no money or ties to SF. The deal is strictly between SF & Showtime. Showtime is the reason they could air a card on CBS. Showtime has an option in their contract for regular CBS broadcasting, but you must know it drives up the cost tremendously to put the venue on, because CBS doesnt sell primetime slot’s for cheap.. It’s up to Showtime & SF to make their money back selling advertisement slots in their allotted time bracket..
With up to 48 shows to book, that’s a lot of work. But according to another source with knowledge of the negotiations between Strikeforce, ProElite, Showtime, and CBS, the deal will prove very lucrative to the San Jose, Calif. promotion.
The source, who chose to remain anonymous, said Strikeforce stands to make $25 million dollars in license fees over the course of its three-year deal with the broadcast network and its premium channel sibling.
http://www.mmaweekly.com/blog/2009/03/strikeforce-deal-with-showtime-and-cbs.asp
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 4, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
25m over 3 years sound like a lot, but let's put this in perspective
25m over 3 years is less than 30m over 6 fights
25m over 48 shows comes out to around 500k a show
500k a show is less than 1m fees per show estimated below
This sounds like Strikeforce is taking a loss on the Fedor shows just to make money on the non-Fedor shows. That may be a brilliant move by Strikeforce afterall. M-1, not so much.
Coker knows what hes doing, like I have been saying all along.
Plus, when Fedor fights and if they lose money, it sill be split with M-1 plus they come out positive on all other shows, so, its all good. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 4, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
25 million over 3 years is “not” a lot of money.. Not to mention the fact that out of that 25 million, 5 % had to be paid back to Pro Elite.. Now factor in how many shows they have to put on over the contract length, 48.. Now divided up by 25 million (less the 5 % to Pro Elite) & they means they make a gross holding of 489K per show.. Not very lucrative in terms of fighters salaries beingowed when one of the marquee names is Fedor and you owe him 500K on your end alone … Makes more sense that way doesn’t it ??
All of this breaking down of the deal has already been done when SF first signed the deal. FYI.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 4, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Of Course It Has
But when you dont break it down.. Just throwing out 25 million without the “intricate details” seem’s like a lot of money.. But when you break it down and analyze the fine print it doesn’t seem as impressive now does it ??
IT was probably a great deal at that time. I wont argue that. SF had minimized it’s overhead and spent conservatively. But now you’re talking of expansion and playing in a bigger market to earn the rate of return needed to offset the overhead spent to make the deal justifiable..
Without a huge pay model like PPV, I dont see how they can expect to expand their business following this plan. They have to let “outsiders” into their market and share the wealth. IT may mean share the losses too, but if it did turn a profit, it just makes it that much harder to consistently grow and expand when someon always has their hands in your pocket.. Then if the relationship goes south at any point, you’re left with a huge loss.. Not easily to recover from.. M1 gets to walk as they have always done.. But in the meantime, you’ve spent the last 12 months building into a future competitor who esentially has the notion to leave you high and dry if it fails…
P.S. Fedor only signed a 3 fight deal. They can only lose money on 3 fight cards max, while making money on the others. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 4, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s just licensing fees. That’s fucking phenomenal for JUST licensing fees. We aren’t evening talking about gate revenues, advertising, sponsor deals, etc.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
If that post was even remotely accurate, why would Coker ever work that kind of deal?
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
…In a business, it’s acceptable to give out freebies to hook people in. They will lose money on Fedor while they make money on the rest.
Hey, don’t answer a question with a question!
If it’s only a year deal, with three fights… then conceivably, he could only lose money on those three events… but get added exposure with Fedor on the card. While Fedor isn’t a big draw, it’d still be increased viewers. Maybe that’s his selling point. To be perfectly honest, it still isn’t that bad.
I just wonder if they make much on those ShoMMA cards at all.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe they do make money on those shows due to the very low fighter pay and same ownership of the arenas.
Their last ShoMMA Card drew 2,836 attendees for a live gate of $85,805.
STRIKEFORCE CHALLENGER SERIES DISCLOSED FIGHTER PAYROLL: $198,500
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=9059&zoneid=13
If you click on the link you will notice on those salaries the win bonuses wasn’t even disclosed likely pushing the payroll even higher.
Are you sure they are making money on those ShoMMA cards? If they are it can’t be very much.
Just BE.
You can’t just take gate and fighter salary as indicators. SF also receive money from Showtime everytime they put on a show as a licensing fee.
Hypocrite.
Don’t say you can’t do something that you just did yourself.
I believe they do make money on those shows due to the very low fighter pay and same ownership of the arenas.
You sited two reasons they might be making money in saying you thought they made money because of low fighter pay and some ownership in arenas.
I sited two reasons they might not be making money because of the gate and their payroll for a show. Plus one of my reasons contradicts one of your reasons which was very low fighter pay as a reason they might be making money.
Just BE.
The original deal
Was actually a god one for SF.. The whole Showtime thing was a great deal at that time.. Do we blame him for making a play at the # 1 free agent on the market ?? Hell No !!! You’de be a fool not to.
But for the very reasons the UFC has maintained it’s dominance is due to the fact that they “dont” get into bed with anyone elese. They take the lumps and pumps by themselves.. Rule # 1 in growing a business.. Never try to expand, if you dont have enough capital to stand on your own.. The moment you have to bring in other businesses to expand your own, you’re giving up valuable market share.. Of course it sounds good to split everything.. It means less up front cash on your end.. It also means less on the back end.. All profits are materialized in business off the back end.. The more you cut into them the less likely you’re able to grow your own..
The sour point is M1.. Everyone know’s they’re a leech in the waiting and have jumped ship numerous times and left everything around the come crashing down.. If M1 was as financially stable as they claim, why not help your “partner” in their time of need ?? It boils down to the laws of business.. M1 is sitting at a conflict of interest in so many ways it hurts.. I just find it amusing to see them “dupe” yet another unsuspecting victim in Coker..
Coker seem’s to have been lured like all the other’s by the glitz and glamour of everything surrounding Fedor’s name.. Sad because if the deal turns out bad as they all have in the past, it’ll be one less company down and M1 takes none of the “meaningful” losses..
Lorenzo Fertitta prior to UFC 31 in May of 2001 when he described Zuffa’s vision for the growth of MMA:
“We believe that there is certainly enough room for everybody to be successful in this sport, and for this sport to grow and evolve, you need to have organizations work with each other as opposed to trying to break each other down.”
He was in a position of weakness. PRIDE was the big dog then.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
SF gets ZERO money from advertising.. It’s money spent by Showtime and recouped by Showtime. Advertising is never a net gain.. It’s considered an acceptable loss.. So anyone thinking you’re making money in advertising dollars is ridiculous.. Unless of course you’re the company that “sells” advertising.
Gate revenues is where they “hope” to stay afloat, much like EliteXC.. If the gate fails, then they cant pay their end of the “deal” which is fighter salaries. The moment that happens, Showtime’s done… Licensing fee’s are not net gains worthy of contentment either. Anyone in business knows that a licensing fee is sort of a nice kick back, not enough to float you.. Sponsorhip money is another form of earned income for the promotion, but again it now has to be split 3 ways.. So not as much “net gain” as there could have been..
There is a logical reason on why SF did it.. But there is no logical reason for wanting to do it.. Very big differences between the 2…
It is a revenue share for only the events in which Fedor Emelianenko is a part of the main event
Let’s thinking about this logically:
Revenue:
Ticket sales: 500k
Showtime fees: I’ll be nice, 1 million
Fees: Event set up 500k (conservative)
Marketing: 500k (conservative)
Fedor: 500k
Fedor opponents and rest of card: 500k
1.5m – 2m = -500k.
50% co-promotion: -250k
Congrats M-1, what a deal!
LOL at a 500K marketing budget.. That wouldnt get very much advertising..
The print add’s alone would total over 500K .. Billboards, magazines, flyers, posters, etc..
Radio & TV add’s are pretty expensive.. A typical 30 second TV slot to run in primetime I would say cost’s on average of about 10-20K a spot alone.. Now multiply that by the amount of days consecutive they would need to run it… lol
The UFC’s marketing budget per event runs easily over 10 million.. EASILY !!!
Haha no.
If you seriously think they pay 10 million dollars per event on marketing, I don’t even know what to tell you.
Pics or GTFO? =)
You can’t possibly be comparing Strikeforce with the UFC, right? Showtime and CBS may foot the advertising bill leaving Strikeforce with going the Internet and local route for advertising. It’s not out of the real of possibility. As I said, 500k is conservative.
Again CBS has nothing to do with this deal or SF’s TV deal with Showtime. CBS just happens to be the parent company of Showtime. Of course they are footing the advertising budget on their end. But to think that that an advertising budget doesn’t exceed 10 million for the UFC is CRAZY.. The amount of advertising they do is crazy.. Print, Radio, TV, Internet, etc. all throughout “various countries”.. ??? LOL
I may have been born, but I wasnt born yesterday…
Do you know what the cost of running a billion dollar company is on advertising in a year ??? LOL it far exceeds 120 million…You do know that some of that cost’s has been offset with big money sponsorships right ?? the UFC is a global brand that spans numerous countries.. Do you think they only spend 1-2 million a month to promote in Vegas & the west coast ?? lol They have to advertise in all the countries they have their product in.. 10 million was being generous…
Dude, I never said UFC’s budget isn’t 10m, I said Strikeforce wouldn’t be.
When Strikeforce is on Showtime, they will get ads on Showtime. When they are going to be on CBS, CBS will advertise it. That’s free advertising.
The advertising is per event. Advertising budget depends on the industry. Stop lecturing me about business. I don’t run “multiple companies” like you (haha), but I do have an MBA. Give me a break already. Next thing you’ll tell me is you make 3k an hour and drives a Bentley GT.
Sorry Cyph
comment wasnt directed towards you :)
It was directed to the guy above you.. :)
I agreed with you about Showtime picking up the advertising, as I know that to be standard practice for that type of deal..
Fedor vs. Kharitonov — because that’s the way for Fedor to show that he’s looking forward to fighting the “top” competition available in Strikeforce. As big of a fan as I have always been of Fedor when he actually gets in there to fight, I’d laugh myself absolutely silly if he lost to somebody like Kharitonov in his Strikeforce debut.
There is no way he loses to Kharitonov. The guy does the dumbest shit to get beat.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
A one year contract? Scott Coker isn’t coming across as the genius he was made out to be. I f Fedor gets any kind of legitimacy with casual TV fans after only one year, can you imagine how expensive it is going to be for Strikeforce to extend their relationship? It is a good way to overcome the lack of HW opponents as he won’t be there long enough for it to be exposed.
by ProCannonFodder on Aug 4, 2009 10:23 AM EDT reply actions
I wouldn’t necessarily want to sign Fedor for more than a year if I were Coker. There’s a non-trivial chance that Fedor is going to get beaten by somebody. It’s a cage, Overeem isn’t a joke, Rogers might not be a joke, Fedor is possibly past his peak physically. You don’t want to ink a 3 year co-promotion deal when its entirely conceivable that Fedor will be a laughingstock this time next year.
The backlash once he loses will be immense.
We can’t really blame Scott for signing Fedor. It was a smart move for his business. Strikeforce isn’t on the same level as the UFC so the co-promotion works for them. In the end the UFC and it’s fights will always be the benchmark for most rankings while Fedor is on the outside fighting guys who, while entertaining, won’t mean much for his legacy.
A lot of really good points here...
Allow me to pick at something much less relevant- what about Affliction’s cage made it… not a cage?
"The wise have something to say, the foolish have to say something."
hm.
Apparently I have lost my damn mind. Isn’t there a promotion that uses/used a very tall cylindrical cage? I was so sure it was Affliction…
"The wise have something to say, the foolish have to say something."
by PistonHyundai on Aug 4, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Affliction never used a cage. EliteXC used a round cage, in fact I preferred their set up to most of the others.
Either way I’m excited to see Fedor fight in a cage, MMA is not suited to a ring IMO.
bullseye
Just got my deceased promotions mixed up.
"The wise have something to say, the foolish have to say something."
by PistonHyundai on Aug 4, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I know you’ve already figured this one out, but I can’t help but say it: What made Affliction’s cage not a cage was that it was, well, not a cage.
:)
by Kierkegaard on Aug 4, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
well played :) haha
"The wise have something to say, the foolish have to say something."
by PistonHyundai on Aug 4, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m just saying….
1. I wouldn’t do business with Japanese MMA companies. If the UFC/Pride stuff tough us anything, is that those companies are not to be trusted…..
2. I wouldn’t do business with M-1. They are leeches who have sunk every organization that they have sunk thetre teeth into.
3. Call me a negative, but I have seen this stuff announced and talked about for years. Each time it fails and goes down in flames. I will keep my negativity until proven otherwise.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 4, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
“We’re hoping that Alistair will be ready to fight in the Fall, and we can put him on one of the cards with Fedor, and not fight against each other but fight against someone else, and let’s build that fight up.”
This is what Boxing does. It’s a bad way to do business in MMA. So many things can go wrong. The UFC has tried this by giving Cro-Cop a tune-up fight before fighting Randy. Gonzaga’s leg ended that one.
Jardine vs. Liddell was supposed to be a warm up fight for Liddell as well. Didn’t go so well.
MMA is not the sport to be doing that.
oops…. top part is a quote… the bottom part are my comments.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 4, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
all this behind the scenes ridiculousness aside… i’m pretty excited about the possibility of watching him fight three times in a single year. something we haven’t seen since ’05.
yea. that is a plus...
but I like strikeforce, and think in the end this is gonna hurt them…
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I want to see what else is on the card before I get excited.
by Zou want a piece? on Aug 4, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Too many negative nancies around here… It’s much more fun to think about the DREAM M-1 Strikeforce alliance of epic match-ups than thinking about contracts.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Wrong
It’s more fun for the same 5 people to make negative comments, rec each other’s negative comments, then make a slightly different negative comment, then rec those…until a Brock or Dana post comes up, then they can rec one another’s positive comments.
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Aug 4, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I’d rec this but it is lacking anything about Fedor, Brock, and does not meet my minimum levels of negativity to receive praise.
Try harder, Daniel-san!
LOL
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Too many negative nancies around here… It’s much more fun to think about …mmmmmmm, Manhoef…wait what was I talking about again?.
Fixed ;)
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 4, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that tapout radio link was painful to listen to
that lady kinda sounds and acts like palin, they need to get some good radio talk show hosts.
by Orcus on Aug 4, 2009 12:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Crooklyn... lol
Yeah, I’m not a fan. She needs to stop sounding so nervous, and the Palin reference is funny.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
im still not sold on this whole things
1. Someone said earlier what If showtime backed off strikeforce and that very well could happen. Let’s just say in theory here that showtime takes the gamble and has Fedor headlining vs Brett Rogers. Now hypothetically say Rogers knocks fedors block off, then Fedor has zero marketability.
2. At that point they give Fedor a gimme fight in which Dana and mma fans are already degrading Fedor for being overrated or can’t fight in a cage etc,
3. Showtime pulls the plug since now an overeem fight isn’t marketable after Fedor loses.
4. Then strikeforce is losing money thus 50 percent on each card for a non profitable card is adding up.
5. Rip Strikeforce
"What do you want from me?..... A Slap?"
by xtremecouture on Aug 4, 2009 12:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Is the UFC the real problem?
Hypothetically speaking, if you were to remove the UFC from the equation, the fighters would have to fight somewhere. Right? That would leave Strikeforce, Dream and M1 as the most viable options.
Well, these organizations appear to be willing to co-promote/become partners (or whatever you want to call it). From this, you can surmise that any fighter contractually obligated to fight for any one of the aforementioned companies could presumably fight any other fighter with the same obligations.
So, if you were remove the UFC from the picture, you would have a situation where any fight is not only possible but also probable. Therefore, the UFC’s desire to monopolize the market is what is really obstructing the fans from seeing fights such as Fedor vs. Brock.
Because if Brock (or any other top tier fighter) were to sign with Strikeforce, for instance, and Fedor were (I know he already is) to sign with M-1, these two organizatin’s would be – as they are know – willing to come to an agreement to get the fight done.
This would be dependent on the fighter’s continuing their careers and not electing to do something else with their lives if the UFC were to cease to exist, of course.
I know it is only because of the UFC that MMA is where it is today, but this does not necessarily mean that everything they (the UFC) do what is best for the sport.
Just an idea, though.
Well, it works both ways. You can either say that the UFC’s desire to monopolize actually obstructs these fights… OR fighters are obstructing the UFC’s willingness to bring all the best fights to all the fans in one promotion by not signing over their lives.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 4, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
any fight is not only possible but also probable
Have you ever tried to get people to work together? The more people, the harder it is.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Have you ever tried to get people to work together? The more people, the harder it is
Agreed. More people usually equates to more difficulty. However, it’s not as difficult as you make it seem. A vast majority of organizations on this planet are engaged in some form of partnership. If a desired outcome can be reached, a solution can almost always be found, depending on how much control one company wants over the process. If they are all on equal footing, collaboration is much more easily accomplished.
willing to co-promote/become partners
Only because they have to. Co-promotion is a massive sign of weakness.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Co-promotion is a massive sign of weakness.
Depends on how you look it. Sometimes the easiest way to achieve a goal is to bring in the assistance of others. You may see it as a sign of weakness, others may see it as a business strategy.
Rule # 1 in business
Dont share your market value.. The object in business is to gain market share and corner your market. The main objective being money. The more you make, the more of the market share you’re going to take up.
Sharing your business is a sign of need. You dont do it unless you “:have to”.. While it may be a business “strategy” as you put it, it certainly isnt one that successful companies look to follow. They try to keep their market share contained… Not release some of for the sake of a few quick bucks.
The only time it makes sense is if you’re sharing your market with someone that has zero interest in “expanding” into your share. Like if I brought you on board to help me design a part for a project I was building, but you dont care enough to want to be in the business as a front runner.. M1 is in multiple business relationships that are both unethical & conflicting to say the least. They’re essentially a proposed direct competitor in the waiting. The moment they can gain enough notoriety in the market, they’re going to branch off and look to expand on their own.. Which leaves it’s partner’s fending for the market share they split with them to begin with. Now all of the sudden That 10-15% of the market that SF had has been divided into 3rds with 1/3 of the parties looking to expand over you.. Sometimes everyone makes off the cuff decisions, especially when the thought of potential big money comes in the short term.. Who know’s maybe Coker had a plan to build to a certain point and then sell out to the highest bidder.. Because outside of that scenario I dont see how this is benefitial even in the 12 month short term.. Not when he was doing so well without them ??
They’re essentially a proposed direct competitor in the waiting
Not even in the waiting, M-1 is having a card in California on the 28th.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
But that’s the benefit of their “co-promotion” for the short term.. They can leech fighters off of SF right now.. I mean in the waiting because the moment they get a certain amount of notoriety & feel secure about severing the co-promotion to expand their own interest’s, they will..
As of right now they dont have a choice, SF on the other hand did… SF was doing more than ok in their current model. As long as you can operate in the green without giving up any of your market share.. You’re doing great, regardless of profit levels..
Being a 12 month deal seems more plausible to the effect that he is gambling on using it to expand and knowing full well he wont be keeping Fedor in the long run. I guess I could see him trying to utilize the brand like EliteXC did with Kimbo.
Lorenzo Fertitta prior to UFC 31 in May of 2001 when he described Zuffa’s vision for the growth of MMA:
"We believe that there is certainly enough room for everybody to be successful in this sport, and for this sport to grow and evolve, you need to have organizations work with each other as opposed to trying to break each other down."
That was before they could make $70mil off of a single PPV.
by Screwface on Aug 4, 2009 3:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
might it b a mistake to not have overeem/fedor first since it would be the fight to gain the most interest from fans?
i mean if they pit fedor v werdum and it does horribly,how would showtime react 2 that(unless they’re full in).
i wud love 2 see brett rogers get 1st shot but if he loses,you just killed the momentum of your young star.but i guess that’s the path they r going.
IN A CAGE!!!!
but with elbows??? if there are no elbows, i’m going to be so f$#%ing pissed…. changing rules for a athlete’s advantage over another is the weakest thing i’ve ever heard in competition sports
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