M-1 Challenge fighter Toni Valtonen displaying his Nazi swastika and "Born to Hate" tattoos. His "White Pride" tattoo isn't visible in this pic. Michael David Smith has more.
6 months ago
Kid Nate
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Yikes...
Good thing M-1 Challenge only pulls in ten viewers.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 31, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And btw...
I wouldn’t have “Front paged” this pic…he deserves no publicity for his stupidity.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 31, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, definately not. Just what we want people to perceive MMA as
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This type of person bothers me because I have sleeve tattoos and am going bald so I just shave my head, and I always get lumped into this type of category by people. Even though I have plenty of friends of all races.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 31, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not in the business of censoring news
to protect MMA.
We believe in the power of sunlight and open dialogue at Bloody Elbow.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
I didn't mean...
censor it I meant just put it in regular fan shots…Not trying to be a dick at all. It’s just gonna create all kinds of drama haha.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 31, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
drama is good
M-1 and HDNet need to answer for this.
And if Valtonen is seriously reformed like he says, he’ll get the tatoos removed permanently.
I know some ex-nazis who became solid citizens but they got their tats removed and renounced racism (long story, some guys I met at Public Enemy concert many many years ago).
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd.
And if Valtonen is seriously reformed like he says, he’ll get the tatoos removed permanently.
This is EXACTLY what I thought as well. Yeah, he apologized for the tats and yeah, he said he had a rebellious youth, but there was no actual apology for any of the beliefs behind the existence of the tattoos. I echo your sentiments: If he’s seriously reformed, he should remove them.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Aug 31, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he’s seriously reformed, he should remove them.
Completely agree.
by JAYGK95 on Aug 31, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno about removed but covering them up (with a tattoo) is an option too…Although haveing to burden the pain of a laser burning your skin is probably good punishment for being racist.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 31, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep..
tattoo removals are just a hassle, and it doesn’t look good..
he should have just covered it up with newer tats..
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 31, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like “Brown people are okay with me!” and a smiley over his swastika.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Toni Valtonen vs. Melvin Costa
for the M-1 Global White Pride Championship belt.
by rzor on Aug 31, 2009 12:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
because he also has similar tats...
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 31, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stay classy M-1.
Point of discussion:
Obviously his tattoos are abhorrent and ignorant – but how much different is it for him to have a “White Pride” tattoo than Cain Velasquez to have a “Brown Pride” tattoo? If he only had a “WP” tattoo and didn’t colour its meaning with the other clearly white supremacy symbols, would it be as offensive to have it?
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Aug 31, 2009 12:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
you just read my effing mind
If he didn’t have the swastika, would “white pride” be acceptable? probably not because of its historical context
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're not going to have this discussion at BE
There is a huge difference, namely that “White Pride” and the Swastika have been the symbols used by movements and governments that murdered and enslaved millions of people.
Consider the topic closed or I will start banning people.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
topic closed, but i think both of our discussions revolved around the “white pride” aspect singularly. Any rational person would have problems with the race. Sorry to incite people if i did.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I was starting to get worried about where this going…
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by funnytiger on Aug 31, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*was
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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by funnytiger on Aug 31, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry – consider it closed.
I only meant the phrase “White Pride” on it’s own and in all honesty whether you’re proud to be “white” or not – the phrase is probably much to engrained in racism to be taken any other way. And on the flip side, for someone of Cain’s heritage his people were probably made to feel as though they should not have pride in being a different color so its a phrase of empowerment rather than belittling to others.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Aug 31, 2009 12:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Its not that simple (and you can ban me for having a discussion about race). Saying Cain’s tattoo “brown pride” isn’t as racist as “white pride” is Racism itself, i.e., “Minorities can’t be racist because they have no societal power”. Sure, history gives “white pride” so much more context, but if you know anything about the La Raza movement or the divisive mentality in the southwest concerning native peoples and land ownership, you might not be as quick to defend Cain.
by judonerd on Aug 31, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you've made your point
It’s clear that Cain’s tattoo is controversial and I don’t mind some discussion of it.
You’ve made your perspective clear and that’s cool.
now stop.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to sound dismissive...
But this seems to come up every time Cain Velasquez fights. The Cliff’s Notes version: white pride has long been tied to racism.
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by Dodectagon on Aug 31, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
When Hispanics conquer a continent and slaughter most of the native residents, then enslave and import millions of people from another continent, and then have a war on yet a third continent in which they industrialize mass murder of yet more millions based on religion and ethnicity, then we can complain about Cain’s tatoo.
In the mean time… we live on a planet call Earth in 2009 AD.
The political realities are what they are and won’t be changed by a discussion on BE.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well to be fair… Spain/Portugal did conquer a continent, slaughter most (if not all in some cases) native residents, enslave and import people from another continent and then have war on a third continent in which they industrialized mass murder based on religion and ethnicity.
But if we’re talking Latin America/South America only, they’ve got their fair share of despicable actions, they were just on the receiving end during the colonization days.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Aug 31, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Keep in mind, I in no way endorse or rationalize crazy ignorant racist crap, I just want to keep it in mind that racism is a cross culture thing.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Aug 31, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, it’s unfortunate that any sort of promotion would accept this guy without stipulating he have the tatt’s removed.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Aug 31, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's great
and there are a TON of nuances to this discussion.
Unfortunately it is not something appropriate for discussion on BE.
Our site has a lot of people from all different backgrounds and educational levels from all over the world coming to visit.
We talk MMA. Not politics, not history.
There are kids reading this site who need to know that Nazi is not cool or acceptable in any way shape or form and that’s as far as we can go here.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. It definitely isn’t acceptable.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Aug 31, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hispanics did conquer and slaughter u idiot!
When spain Conquered an Entire Continent they slaughtered most males and enslaved all women and children. You r not very smart or never took a history class. Brown Pride means the exact same thing as White Pride does. Now the swastica and all that other thing is something different.
by oldskooljjsu on Aug 31, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my bad
I misused Hispanic to mean Latin Americans of mixed descent. Obviously the Spanish and Portuguese are “white” for the purposes of this discussion.
I’m also warning you for calling me an idiot.
We don’t allow name calling here at BE and you’re also violating rule #4 — pissing off the moderators.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you say that white pride and brown pride mean the same thing, and then in the same breath say the swastika is something different? I’m just curious how you came to that conclusion. I only ask because if I hear someone say “white pride” I assume that they are racist in the form of Nazi or supremacist. Again, I’m trying not to sound like a dick, this is a very touchy subject with a fine line to be walked.
by proflex on Aug 31, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DISCUSSION IS CLOSED
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when do white people get to live this down though? i’m native american and irish, kinda a dictomy but i never did this to anybody and neither have my parents or grandparents etc. i love people of all races.
by cagefightonacid on Aug 31, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
some day in the future
but not yet.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on. I honestly don’t have a problem with his tattoos showing when he fights. I believe he’ll be more likely to have them removed if they’re exposed for all the world to see and condemn. But I’m tired of hearing this kind of “argument.” EVERYTHING human has a context. Can you honestly tell me that the ideas represented by “white pride” and “brown pride” are equivalent?
I see that Kid Nate already posted along these lines as I type so I’ll leave it at that.
by cmsove on Aug 31, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was gonna post something very similar. Racism is racism, and alway disgusting, regardless of the race of the racist.
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by mythbuster on Aug 31, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think its racist to be racist against racist, hypocrisy runs further then visible
by Silverobot on Aug 31, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
“Racist” is not a race
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 31, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Might not be what he meant but..
he’s describing prejudice, not racism. You can be prejudice of racists, but not racist against racist. That shows an ignorance of the term. Completely misused.
by Fairtex,AZ on Aug 31, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that goes back to the whole thing about race not being a legitimate term and only perceived as such.. there is only “race” in society, its not a legitimate scientific term.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is true
but well off topic for BE.
The social reality is that “race” has a very real impact on people’s lives despite not being scientifically valid.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If hating ignorant motherfuckers is racist, call me David Duke.
by Chris Nelson on Aug 31, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I hate racists too, I can’t understand it, more like I don’t want to, but I’m by no mean racist, so that puzzles me a bit.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
by spectaa on Aug 31, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you mind explain this to me?
It’s racist to be racist against racist? Racism is racism, ok fair enough, but what’s the idea here?
You don't look like a Tanaka.
by spectaa on Aug 31, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ANYONE WHO WANTS TO START DEFENDING WHITE PRIDE
and rationalizing racist bullshit will be banned.
Bloody Elbow is not the place for these discussions.
We will discuss this matter as it pertains to MMA only.
And we will all recognize the reality that our society condems this sort of thing in a way it does not condemn expressions of pride by other ethnic groups.
The whys and where fores are better left to other sites that are more appropriate.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
I think this post should have the comment function removed in this case
As it is obviously going to start debate that will turn bad.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we will be moderating
and if fools can’t behave themselves we want to know so we can ban them now.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, i’m not trying to incite, but since this was a picture that was simply to illuminate his tattoes and nothign about his abilities, it breeds discussion of this context. In that light, do you want the entire convo stopped or just the part about the specific context of white pride.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
there is lots to discuss
1) what should M-1 and HDNet do about this? They have already covered the tattoos when he fights but they don’t stay hidden.
2) what should Valtonen do — he says he’s reformed and renounces the mistakes of his youth. I say he needs to permanently alter or remove the tats.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In that case i’d say if he’s renounced his background, he should cover the tattoes up. Maybe M-1 could help pay the bill. But then again, this delves into another huge issue of personal freedoms.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fighting on TV isn’t a right – it’s a privilege. People who have chosen to use their bodies to spread this kind of hatred don’t have a right to a platform to further the spread of their message.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Exactly, you have the right to get those tattoos.
I have the right to think whatever I think about those tattoos.
The people who will have to deal with a bunch of shit if they put you on TV with those tattoos have the right to not put you on TV.
by Phildo on Aug 31, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, would it be ok for a UFC fighter to have a swastika on the poster his corner displays behind him before a fight?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Aug 31, 2009 1:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
M-1 is already forcing him to temporarily cover the tats
but they covers have come off during fights.
He needs to make a permanent solution.
Look, being a professional fighter is a privilege, not a right. Being in a fight broadcast by a network is also a privilege, not a right.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said anything about rights.
Its more like on the level of how testing commissions can’t force invasive tests.
but i totally agree he should have to get the removed.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ALSO
One more thing… since the swastika is originally a buddhist symbol, also Hindu, would a buddhist or hindu fighter be forced to cover up if they brandished the symbol in that context? I have an Indian friend who’s family has religious imagery that contains a swastika in their house. They constantly get shit for it, but in reality its a religious symbol to some still.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
again
that is an interesting and valid point.
It’s also not appropriate for BE.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow i wasnt defending racist i was just saying not treating them like anyone else is discrimination i have friends of all races even homosexual. we are all human and as some have different color skin other have different colored opinions and i think just being hateful doesnt socially evolve into anything
by Silverobot on Aug 31, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its also a matter of teaching people
what sorts of behavior and expression are not acceptable in a multicultural society.
Please stop now.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is an entirely separate conversation.
I think it’s safe to say that a swastika in a white circle on a red flag + white pride + born to hate = bad.
by Phildo on Aug 31, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that conversation is closed.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont think he should do anything about his tats…this sport is about fighting, not politics or ideoligical beliefs….and we do live in america where ppl can believe whatever they want and you are free to disagree…but to try and demand something is ridiculous
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by baldspot23 on Aug 31, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Supposedly he changed his views and is no longer racist.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 31, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If this guy stepped into the octagon everyone that has ever been an opponent of MMA would be all over the place talking about how MMA fighters are nazis and the sport should be banned.
He has the right to his opinion. He also has to deal with the consequences of that opinion.
by Phildo on Aug 31, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the deal dude
HDNet and M-1 Global are business ventures who will get serious backlash for promoting a fighter wearing this kind of stuff on his skin.
It is the socially agreed upon convention that nazi and white pride tattoos are not socially acceptable.
That will not be changed by a discussion on BE so we will close this discussion.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not hanging on this post anyway, but this should be green.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
by spectaa on Aug 31, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's the point of greening a moderator? :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to show some love
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bah! Look how many people are commenting on your site, dude – if you aren’t aware of how well loved you and this site are, go back and read Ryan’s tweet from the other day. That’s worth a thousand recs in my mind.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is I’m fuc*ing tired of reading stuff like this over the internet. I’m in no mood for this right know see ya all on a happier subject :).
You don't look like a Tanaka.
by spectaa on Aug 31, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why post this at all then? You should have known exactly what you were going to get when you posted it.
by Patrick79x on Aug 31, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bloody Elbow
is a rational and self-governing community.
I have confidence in our abilities to handle this discussion.
Provided that the moderators lay down the law.
This shit is important. We’ve got a fast growing global sport here, we need to learn how to deal with political views that are outside the pale of acceptability by society.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more reason to hate M-1
What’s nice is that between the Fedor nonsense, the Mousasi nonsense and this nonsense, I’ll be saving a pile of money by not wasting it on M-1 promotions.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Some historical context
Finland, Valtonen’s homeland was invaded by Soviet Russia in 1939 and bravely fought them off for several years. Unfortunately they became allied with Nazi Germany as a desperate gambit to survive.
Being trapped between Stalin and Hitler was a very bad experience for the tiny country so there is some context in Finnish history that might lead some young people to have a distorted view of Nazi Germany.
Having said that, Valtonen appears to have been mixed up with your standard Nazi skinhead idiots in his youth and needs to do more than renounce, he needs to remove the tats.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe M1 can use some of the extra money they’ll be pulling in via their copromotion with strikeforce to spring for some laser removal surgery.
by Phildo on Aug 31, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for posting this.
Honestly, I had no idea this guy even existed, but I am thankful for having this posted. Why? Because if MMA is gonna go mainstream and get as big as it is, I think it’s important to discuss this stuff and expose it for what it is. I’d rather have this be brought up and discussed by the MMA community first, instead of being sandbagged by mainstream media on this as a potential reason for why MMA could be bad. There are some people in the media that will latch onto anything negative just to bash MMA. MMA is not known for this and it is not prevalent in our sport, and we should make it known so. I think HDNet and M-1 should do more to denounce this.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Aug 31, 2009 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
All of you are reading it out of context. it’s short for DANA WHITE PRIDE
by nottheface on Aug 31, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
He has a sawstika tatoo! That is fucked up. I would like to see a Jewish or black fighter knock him out.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Aug 31, 2009 1:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
U know – that’s not totally an unreal situation , I remembered reading that the WWE considered promoting Lesnar as a semi-nazi in a fight against Goldberg (jewish) , but thankfully they decided it’s too much. I hope M-1 or other orgs won’t be tempted to try this . I’m sure such a fight can cause a lot of interest but it would be BAD for mma , and as a jew I can certify that I would be BUMMED if the jew loses!
Anyway I really hope it doesn’t happen…
This nazi dude should either put on a shirt when he fights (I think that’s possible tho might put him in an disadvantage) or at least get rid of the swastika…
by JoelMan on Aug 31, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that sort of shit is very volatile
and would rapidly kill the sport as a legitimate proposition.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if a promoter ever built a fight as such
I would never watch that organization again.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he tried to get rid of the tatoo, wouldn’t it just be a large scar in the shape of a tatoo? Once you get a tat they are really hard to get rid of I thought.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Aug 31, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That depends. But regardless of what it looks like, it’s the intent that counts. If he’s truly sorry and regrets this, he should have them removed.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Aug 31, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, meant to say “it’s his actions that counts.”
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Aug 31, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude you’re making it sound like the alternative of being perceived as a effing nazi is so much better …if I was him I wouldn’t remove it but just ask that they alter it to something else – a square , an octagon , who the hell cares … ? It’s not that big anyways , he can totally remove it if he wishes to
by JoelMan on Aug 31, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the giant
WHITE PRIDE across his back will take more to cover. but it’s doable.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or: “Was certainly a mistake of my misspent youth.”
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone mentioned that it said dana white pride before.
Just put Dana in the front and FC afterwards. Put a heart in the middle and the lightning bolt/hand symbol underneath.
by Phildo on Aug 31, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
U would be suprised what a good tattoo artst can cover up. I know from experience unfortunately.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 31, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep..
i’ve seen a lot of people cover up the names of their ex’s on their body with bigger and good looking tattoos..
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 31, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know a guy who got his name misspelled on his shoulder
his name is Will.
the tattoo read WLIL
He got a black square to cover it up.
I also knew a guy who had a tattoo reading “Born Looser” instead of “Born Loser”
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by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had a friend whose older brother got his favorite band on his shoulder. When we told him what “QUEEN” was supposed to mean, he took a knife to it. I don’t know how to feel about my role in that…
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Born Looser" is classic
I knew a guy that had the Green Bay Packer logo tattoo’d backwards…as a Bears fan I couldnt give him enought shit.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 31, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just put a new tattoo over it,
much better than tattoo removal.. hurts less too.
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 31, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could cover the entire flag with black ink.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 31, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This nazi dude should either put on a shirt when he fights
If that happens, Shinya Aoki will have swastikas all over his legs..
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 31, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where does this guy train by the way? Anyone know?
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Aug 31, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There are Latino gangs with the Brown Pride name. Does this not tarnish Cain Velasquez to some extent?
And just to be sure:
I am NOT racist.
I am NOT defending the White Pride racism concept
I am NOT trying to equivocate Valtonen and Velasquez.
by Patrick79x on Aug 31, 2009 1:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it's not the same
and the pushback Cain gets everytime his tattoo comes up show that it’s not a 100% accepted thing.
But there’s a difference between controversial and outside the pale of civilized society.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you for answering without being dismissive. I appreciate it.
by Patrick79x on Aug 31, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok…sorry dont boot me out, i love this site :)
"The most used phrase in my administration if I were to be President would be "What the hell you mean we're out of missiles?"
The Glenn Beck Program, January 12 2009 lp.org
by baldspot23 on Aug 31, 2009 1:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
we're good man
just trying to keep things nice and civilized around here.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i will say you've done a tremendous job moderating
Most sites would have discussion MUCH farther off tilt.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks man
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a Kid Nate lovefest today.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's all about banning the right people
;)
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When is somebody going to bring up Jeff Monson's Hammer and Sickle Tattoo?
Oh, hey! I did!
Ban Jeff Monson!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
communism is gonna ruin our country soon….still like jeff monson tho
"The most used phrase in my administration if I were to be President would be "What the hell you mean we're out of missiles?"
The Glenn Beck Program, January 12 2009 lp.org
by baldspot23 on Aug 31, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what does the hammer/ sickle represent?
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
Maybe Stalin’s regime that killed millions of people?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no need to be sarcastic, i thought it just represented russia
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s ALWAYS a need to be sarcastic.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What represents Russia is Vodka and Fedor sir.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Aug 31, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s the globally recognized symbol of communism. It’s supposed to represent the proletariat work force (sickle for agriculture, hammer for industry).
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Aug 31, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
thanks for the non-sarcastic answer, appreciated
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For a complete discussion of the hammer and sickle, see here: http://tinyurl.com/kt8kth
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clay Guida's carpenter's union?
=)
by poundnground on Aug 31, 2009 1:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
communism…it was there symbol much like the swatika
"The most used phrase in my administration if I were to be President would be "What the hell you mean we're out of missiles?"
The Glenn Beck Program, January 12 2009 lp.org
by baldspot23 on Aug 31, 2009 1:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In related news,
Grim Reapers holding babies have vowed to boycott Alexander Emelianenko’s future fights.
by Patrick79x on Aug 31, 2009 1:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW isn't Vadim Finkelshtein jewish ?
Or at least part jewish ? Finkelshtein is a very jewish name … I should know. I’m not sure how it adds to the story but if he is jewish or part jewish it makes this story even more ‘picante’…
by JoelMan on Aug 31, 2009 1:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to sound like a dick
but I don’t think I can comment on this without sounding like one. I realize the intention was to merely inform people of someone who has a shady past, go figure involved with M-1 no less. But do you not think it was slightly shortsighted, and all most reckless to post something about about a swastika and “white pride” and all that other garbage on this guys body, and then tell everyone to watch the racist comments. What did you think was going to happen when you post something like this on an internet community? The whole point behind this guys tats is racism, through and through, it’s hard to punish people for a topic that you started. If this was such a non issue and you where worried about the possible problems with it then you shouldn’t have put this up there.
by proflex on Aug 31, 2009 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the point was to make people aware that there is someone like this out there and fighting for a semi-large promotion.
I think the close moderation is so people don’t get the wrong idea and start ideological debates and try to keep it at least mostly associated to MMA. This makes sense, it’s not a political forum or a forum that specifies in any sort of ideological debate (other than Fedor vs. Anderson), so keeping the comments somewhat reigned in to the theme of MMA is pretty ok with me, I just didn’t know where the boundary was, and now I do.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Aug 31, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
please see the rest of the thread
I think its gone well so far.
I knew it would be controversial and require hands on moderating but so far so good.
Logical, rational and polite discussion has a track record of solving some of the toughest problems humankind has faced.
I’m not giving up on the power of dialogue and education, even in an MMA community.
This topic is important and the fact that the discussions of these topics turn into recruiting grounds for white pride idiots with smooth spiels in so many other MMA communities mean its important to me to have it out here in the open.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
It’s good to know what kind of people are out there in the MMA fighter community, I just think that you are walking a fine line with this one, doing a pretty good job at it I’ll add, but it’s still a balancing act that. Like I said I didn’t want to sound like a dick, I apologize if thats how it came off, but this was one of those hot button issues that could have been avoided.
by proflex on Aug 31, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In addition
These are the kinds of posts that can go south real fast and the kind that you can’t really bring back or apologize for, guys Kid Nate is right, we should be able to discuss this sort of thing, but chose your words carefully.
by proflex on Aug 31, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I choose the word: Ergasiophobia, do I win? I chose pretty carefully and it’s a pretty badass phobia.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Aug 31, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
White supremacists are inbred web-footed dumbasses. Nothing more needs to be said.
Keep firing Assholes!
ZE GOGGLES! ZAY DO NOZING!!!!
by Ubernoober on Aug 31, 2009 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Correction, all racial supremists fall into that category.
by Patrick79x on Aug 31, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
it is my experience that everyone is racially prejudiced to some degree, its just a natural thing. To say some black people, some jewish people, indians, Inuits, black white brown red blue… Everyone has historic instances of racism, not just white people.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s true yet I for one never made my body a bulletin board for hate symbols …
by JoelMan on Aug 31, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that wasn’t meant to incite, I’m just pointing out how much i loathe the conception that white people are the only ones who can be racist. thats my point, and now i’m done venting.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The irony is that putting racists into one basket and labeling them is predjudice itself. It may be less damaging, but its prejudice based on a stereotype.
I personally am quite hateful towards nazis, but I recognize the contradiction.
by judonerd on Aug 31, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly, its the concept of reverse racism
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s elliptical racism? If we’ve got reverse racism we have to have elliptical racism, also I need a definition for upside down racism and racism in the 4th dimension.
Can we get some racism calculus going on in here? Gotta define this shit!
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Aug 31, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the dumbest term ever. Are you arguing that there’s a right way to be racist and a wrong (reverse/backwards) way?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 31, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nope. I’m not, and I’ll save my opinions for a “lit up”discussion with my buddies. I love Nate the Great. and that is all.
by amadeus on Aug 31, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you've made your point
twice now.
That’s plenty, now stop.
BE is an MMA site, not a political site. time to stop.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, philosophy over. But why did you post the photo? This guy isn’t worth the BE bandwidth.
by judonerd on Aug 31, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
M-1 and HDNet
are.
And they need to bad publicity for letting a fighter with Nazi tats fight on their cards.
So that they will take corrective action.
Same for the fighter, if he’s really changed his ways, that’s great, change the tattoos and I’ll be happy to welcome you back to the sport.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also ducks, or half duck half donkey hybrids.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Aug 31, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reply FAIL
This was @ Patrick79x comment
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 31, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This will probably make no sense...
To lots of you guys, but coming from someone who has been brought up and raised very similar to Cain Velasquez’s past(I come from a very traditional Mexican family and was born and raised in Compton/ Lynwood, ca), the “Brown Pride” tattoo truly has nothing to do with hate and or racism. Its more on a personal level. Anyway, I read Kid Nate’s comments so I’m not gonna come on here and write a huge essay on what a “Brown Pride” tattoo means and represents. I just wanna put that out there, coming from someone who would have a better understanding on that subject.
Believe me, “Brown Pride” tattoos aren’t meant to offend anyone (although some may see things different) as to having a “white pride” tattoo is. Especially when following it with Vikings, bolts, wizards and other shit that’s known to represent hate and racism. No mas on this subject, Sorry Nate!
by poundnground on Aug 31, 2009 1:30 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
that's cool
I don’t mind people saying their piece in a polite way and then stopping.
And its important for folks to realize what it means to come from a marginalized community and accomplish something and be proud of where you come from and who you are.
There are many many ways to be proud of being a european or a european-American and to celebrate that heritage without offending anyone or endorsing loser nazi racist bullshit.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and to slightly change topic from racism to international MMA:
For all you people who live outside America, i think this is BIG BIG news..
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 31, 2009 1:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Best thing to do in these posts. Stay away.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Aug 31, 2009 1:32 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Why can’t we all just love each other?
I’ll give him a hug.
'Ello G'vnor!
by IHateMMA on Aug 31, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
comments are closed.
We had a good discussion and some important points were raised. Time to end while we’re ahead.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Aug 31, 2009 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
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