Is BJ Penn's Legacy on the Line at UFC 101?
by Michael Rome on Aug 3, 2009 11:10 AM EDT
in News
83 comments
At UFC 101 BJ Penn finally gets to answer all the questions. Is he really the best lightweight in the world, or is he overrated? Fans have started questioning the strength of his wins at 155, starting with the win over Jens Pulver. Pulver's gone on such a bad losing streak that the win isn't impressive in retrospect. He got a nice win over Joe Stevenson, but Stevenson went on to suffer a first round loss to Kenny Florian and a decision to Diego Sanchez. His win over Sherk looked impressive until Frankie Edgar easily outboxed Sherk.
I'm not a fan of picking apart records like this. You can go through any fighter's record and start discrediting wins, and it's really not fair to great fighters to go back and nitpick records. Penn earned himself a number of enemies with his behavior after UFC 94, and those enemies want to discredit everything he's done in MMA. I'm sure if Penn beats Florian his detractors will claim Florian was never that good anyway, but a win over Florian effectively secures his spot as the best lightweight in the world.
This won't be an easy fight for Penn. He has better boxing, wrestling, and jiu-jitsu than Florian, but Florian has better cardio and a number of weapons from range he can use to effectively nullify Penn's advantages. Florian has become an evasive counter striker on his feet; I expect him to make BJ chase him and try to catch BJ with body kicks when he closes in. The key for Penn in this fight is to resist the urge to fight standing and get Florian down. Penn's offensive wrestling is underrated; he definitely has the ability to put Florian on his back, and that's where Penn can really do a lot of damage.
From my perspective, Penn's legacy in the sport is secure. But a loss to Florian at this point will give a lot of ammunition to those who have long believed he has never lived up to the hype.
0 recs |
83 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
if mma had a “legit” HOF he’d be first ballot…his legacy is fine with or without the win.
by Reaser16 on Aug 3, 2009 3:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Your position on the matter is well documented :P
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Aug 3, 2009 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His legacy is very much secure but there has always been question marks about BJ living up to his full potential.
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Aug 3, 2009 3:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t the fact that he often under-performs tarnish his legacy a bit?
He’s definitely the more skilled fighter, but, unless we see a brand new Kenny Florian, if he loses on Saturday it’ll be because his training wasn’t up to par or his head wasn’t in it. I think saying his legacy is “on the line” is a bit of an exaggeration, but a loss would lend more credence to the argument that BJ will be remembered as an incredibly gifted fighter, but not necessarily a great one.
That said, I hope we see him in top form.
by kid_eh on Aug 3, 2009 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As Mr Rome says, BJ has done enough to secure his place with the greats. It’s all now a question of where he ranks in the list – near the top, or near the bottom?
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Aug 3, 2009 4:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If BJ had fought his entire career at 155 he would be contemplated as one of the two or three best of all time, unfortunately he chose not to go that route.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 3, 2009 8:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
disagree
I think the fact that he went up to WW and beat Hughes and is one of a very very few people to own belts in two divisions (Randy and …?) is a big part of what secures his legacy as one of the top two or three of all time.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Aug 3, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hendo in Pride
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 3, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said he wasn’t, just that you really don’t hear his name in the discussion other than from his hardcore fans much. No doubt the Hughes win was a great point on his resume but there’s no overlooking the fact that he has a less than stellar record above LW.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 3, 2009 2:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad the article mentioned discrediting former opponents
I really hate it when MMA fans discredit victories by discrediting their opposition. The worst is when a fighter is highly ranked but an MMA fan puts ZERO value in that fighter beating mid-tier competition (i.e. Nate Marquardt, Rashad Evans before fighting Griffin, etc). It is just so utterly ridiculous because any fan can discredit any fighters’ record using self-serving arguments (i.e. Rich Franklin is on the decline of his career, so and so is looking old, so and so is overrated, so and so hasn’t beaten top five competition to deserve to get a title shot, etc). BJ’s legacy is secured unless he gets totally dominated in his next fights at Lightweight. He is fighting the fighters that he needs to fight to prove he is the best lightweight.
by chrisbboy82 on Aug 3, 2009 3:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
All those fighters you mentioned are great fighters. Anyone who discredit Marquardt, Evans, Griffin, or Franklin is a fool.
by cyph on Aug 3, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BJ will be fighiting in the WEC in 2010.
by steveoc24 on Aug 3, 2009 3:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Will follow in the same steps as Pulver, guaranteed!!
by steveoc24 on Aug 3, 2009 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BJ should win almost every fight that he is in. Will he? That is a different story.
BJ Penn’s biggest enemy is BJ Penn. Certain guys like GSP and Machida among others seem to like the grind and the hard work to get to where they are.
BJ loves winning and loves being at the top he just doesnt love the hard work to get there.
I’m going with BJ Decision simply because BJ loves to prove people wrong. People always love to write off BJ until he comes back better than before but we will see 101.
by bigdmmafan on Aug 3, 2009 3:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think anyone likes the grind
by drudog1715 on Aug 3, 2009 4:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Naw, some people relish the feeling afterward, and then associate that with the work to get there. This is a common way to develop life habits right? This habit continues until they send you a card in ’Ospital.
by asa on Aug 3, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one likes the grind, but certain people are able to deal with it much better because of their mindset. Forrest Griffin always says he’s not particularly talented but he takes pride in being a hard-working dog. BJ on the other hand, has long been content to coast, and could get away with it, as he was indeed a prodigy (going out to party before a match with GSP?). Like the hare sleeping on the side of the road, he may eventually get passed by someone less talented but more dedicated.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Aug 3, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Upset
Who’s got Florian for this one? I might throw some dough down on him
by drudog1715 on Aug 3, 2009 4:18 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I do
For some reason I have a hunch Florian takes this one. I think if Florian can keep this a kickboxing match, he can utilize his great kicking game to neutralize Penn on the feet. If Florian can pull this fight into the later rounds, he could possibly outwork Penn en route to a decision victory.
by filipinomix2oo0 on Aug 3, 2009 4:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I put some money on Florian but I have BJ winning this one. It’s not Florian’s time just yet.
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Aug 3, 2009 5:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s time for Kenny to kill that master.
by brad23 on Aug 3, 2009 5:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nope...
Penn is going to dominate this fight.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 3, 2009 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I like watching KenFlo fight and I’d be picking him against any Other LW, just not against the greatest LW ever.
I don’t think they’re actually going to let him kill me... And if he does kills me, book sales will really go up. Boom…win-win, bitch.- Forrest Griffin on Anderson Silva
by ufc4 on Aug 3, 2009 8:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Aug 3, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say no.
Win or lose, BJ Penn has already cemented his legacy. He has already been champ of two different wieght classes. That is a pretty big acomplishment.
by Bandaka on Aug 3, 2009 4:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No.
His belt is, but he’s always going to be The Prodigy. That legend will never die.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by subo on Aug 3, 2009 5:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BJ has created a legacy, but just how impressive that legacy is is unclear. He is a solid fighter, but perhaps hype and potential outweigh his actual achievements. Sure, Pulver, Stevenson and Sherk are solid wins, but they are also his only wins in the last 4 years. In that same 4 years Frankie Edgar has wins over Sherk, Franca, Fisher, Griffin, Miller, Bocek and Taurosevicius and nobody speaks of Edgars legacy. Why not? The only answer I can come up with are his back to back wins over Gomi and Hughes years ago. Those wins certainly still count for a lot in my book but if we place value on his win over hughes, we must also take into consideration all his losses at WW. Even with a win over Florian, I still think BJ is fortunate to be ranked #1.
by GeeDub on Aug 3, 2009 5:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There used to be an argument to be made for Aoki at #1. Not so much anymore. And if you think Alvarez should be #1 for beating up on Bellator’s LWs, you’re nuts.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by subo on Aug 3, 2009 5:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like alvarez,
but people shouldn’t rank him #4 in the world..
and geedub,
are you saying Sherk, Franca, Fisher, Griffin, Miller, Bocek, Taurosevicius, etc > Pulver, Stevenson, Sherk, gracie, gracie, hughes, gomi, serra, etc?
Cause i surely don’t agree with that..
also… Legacy, is for the entire career right? if you take only recent wins, then guys like Chuck Liddell, and even Fedor’s, “legacy” wouldn’t be as impressive..
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 3, 2009 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Legacy is the sum of the career
with the time periods of each victory also coming into account. BJ beat JOE when he was ranked top ten in most ranks (far as I remember)… Pulver hadn’t looked horrible yet… Sherk was (and is currently) a top tier LW , who many believed to be in the top 3 at LW at the time (tho ranks might have had him off due to his suspension, or maybe around 7 if he was still on)… Hughes was unstoppable… etc…
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on Aug 3, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Penn is the guy who took Joe Stevensons heart. Penn put such a vicious beating on him that Stevenson has never looked the same (the Nate Diaz fight withstanding, that was a pretty good performance).
by AboveThisFire on Aug 3, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or it could be that Stevenson stepped up in competition with
Penn, Florian and Sanchez and found out he just isn’t as good as they are?
by Razreshat on Aug 3, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, not really sure I buy that but I do see your point. I tend to look at it in how he fought, in the fights before Penn he was aggressive, used his wrestling and jiu jitsu, controlled fights and outworked people.
In the Penn fight he couldn’t do any of those things and in the fights following against Florian and Sanchez it seemed like he had lost the ability to really pull the trigger and initiate his own game.
by AboveThisFire on Aug 3, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair...
Stevenson has just recently achieved a Black Belt in BJJ. Penn’s BJJ credits are well known and legendary. Florian is an amazing talent in BJJ as well and Sanchez is a powerful wrestler.
I think the more likely reasoning is that Stevenson went into all three fights assuming he was at a disadvantage fighting on the ground and therefore focused on keeping the fight standing.
by Razreshat on Aug 3, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think BJ deserves to be viewed more highly than Franca, but Franca has a more impressive record over the last 4 years and fewer blemishes. And I agree, you need to look over a fighters entire career but its not like BJ has a plethora of consistent wins over a long career like Fedor or Anderson. He has a very splotchy, infrequent career in different weight classes with both impressive and unimpressive performances. And if he is getting credit for beating the gracie’s, hughes and serra, he must also take a few steps down due to his losses to hughes, pulver, GSP and even Machida.
And I hear people saying already, “But all other LWs would lose to GSP, hughes and Machida.” Maybe so, but the fact is that they havent whilst BJ has. He is 1-1 against Pulver. 1-1 against Hughes and 1win, 1 draw against Uno. Thats not exactly domination. A great effort to get those wins sure, but he has been too inconsistent and dropped too many fights for me to think a win against Florian would cement some unparalleled legacy.
I love watching BJ fight but I value consistency pretty highly so he is still 2 or 3 wins away from really establishing himself at the top of the food chain.
by GeeDub on Aug 3, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean Edgar? I agree Edgar has a better LW record recently. There are arguments to rank other fighters above BJ in LW, purely on competition fought. However I have yet to really see anyone say another LW would beat BJ Penn in a fight, and that often affects rankings when it shouldn’t.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 3, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, sorry, I meant Edgar.
And I agree, people often compare 2 fighters went determining rankings. Thats why I try to follow systematic rankings as opposed to any kind of popular rankings.
I favour Florian to take the chocolates at 101. I think he is gonna be hard to hit and could very well control the fight on the feet by keeping the distance and working from the clinch. On the ground……I got no idea. Both guys have been really solid on the ground with great RNC executions. Really looking forward to the fight to see how it plays out.
by GeeDub on Aug 3, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is there no Argument for Aoki anymore? He just beat a legit top 10 in Shaolin who was 20-2 with wins over Ishida, Mitsuoka, Hansen, Kawajiri…..etc. Sure, he lost to Mach, but he is still 16-2 over the last 4 years with 3 or 4 wins over top 5/ top 10 fighters. Plus, if you wanna include WW results in your LW rankings theres no way BJ is ahead of Aoki..
by GeeDub on Aug 3, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aoki has no chin and is too vulnerable to the standup game. I think someone with a good sprawl and ability to keep distance would tool Aoki every time.
That said, he’s a brilliant jiu-jitsu artist who is fun to watch.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Aug 3, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A legacy is ALWAYS on the line
Even when a fighter like Fedor fights he takes the chance he “ruins” his legacy , at least a little . If in legacy u mean how the fighter is going to be remembered – then definitely , it’s always a risk . Just imagine BJ gets KOed or submitted in the first round , u think it won’t hurt the way people will talk about him when he retires?
by JoelMan on Aug 3, 2009 5:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Even if fedor loses his next few fights,
It wouldn’t change what he has accomplished before..
Even Ali lost 3 of his last 4 fights… Doesn’t mean his legacy is tarnished, because it doesn’t change what he has done in his career….
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 3, 2009 5:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand what he’s saying though. A couple of bad losses at the end of your career does take away from the ‘invincible’ mystique he has.
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Aug 3, 2009 7:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s all theoretical – Fedor will always have a small but very hardcore and faithful group of fans , but what about all the other people ? Fedor is already taking heavy criticism for not joining the UFC . Who decides what Fedor’s legacy is , is it me , you ? or the media and most of the fans ? right now Fedor is skating on very thin ice …he may be remembered as the guy who dominated Pride and didn’t want to fight in the UFC even for A LOT of money. He may be remembered as the guy who dodged Lesnar…
by JoelMan on Aug 3, 2009 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And one last thing do u really think if Fedor fought Lesnar and got dominated it wouldn’t influence his legacy as being the best heavyweight ever ? It defintely would .
by JoelMan on Aug 3, 2009 7:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree here. A loss to Brock would probably make a lot of people call him a can-crusher.
by CliChe Guevara on Aug 3, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could also be asking the question, does Kenny Florian deserve a title shot? He’s on a big winning streak but there are some very valid questions about the quality of his competition and his wins.
Is it just luck that Kenny hasn’t had to fight Tyson Griffin, Edgar, or Gray Maynard on his way to his title shot?
Nothing against Kenny, but if BJ destroys him this is what people will be saying after the fight.
by MMAEruption on Aug 3, 2009 7:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To keep champions fighting good opponents, the contenders shouldn’t have to fight each other until a clear best contender emerges, that leads to champions either not fighting very often or ending up switching between awesome opponents and crappy downtime fights waiting for the next awesome opponent.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 3, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention, Kenny got his shot by beating Stevenson quickly while many here are trying to downplay BJs win over Stevenson.
by Dropkick434 on Aug 3, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If his legacy is JUST holding belts in two divisions, beating Matt Hughes at the top of his game, beating Gomi, etc., etc., etc….
Then yeah, his legacy is secured.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Aug 3, 2009 7:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think BJ's legacy is secure...
its just that legacy includes some things that aren’t so nice.
Great ability, great victories…but also unrealized potential, poor training, too many excuses, lawsuits in order to refuse responsibility, letters by his mother to the NSAC, etc…
by Razreshat on Aug 3, 2009 7:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
B.J.‘s legacy will remain in tact for people who’ve followed him from before Ultimate Fighter Season 5, for people who latched onto Penn after that… maybe they’ll jump bandwagons on their opinion.
B.J. always fights the best competition he can be given, he crushed Gomi when Gomi was tearing people up like a buzzsaw, he beat Hughes when Hughes was dominating everyone else, he beat Serra before Serra starting eating too much pasta, he fought Machida to a decision (and not because Machida was just being “evasive” it’s a hell of a fight), he crushed Sherk (and essentially took the fight out of Sherk, something nobody else has been able to really do, Sherk didn’t even look like he wanted anything to do with B.J. in that fight), and he also beat a Caol Uno in Caol’s prime.
Even the fights that Penn has lost (GSP, Hughes, Machida, Jens) are against guys who either at the time, or now are considered some of the best fighters in their weight classes and essentially no question Hall of Famers. It’s also pretty important to note that Penn is fighting guys in any weight class he can get his hands on, he doesn’t turn a fight down unless he thinks he can get an even tougher fight.
If you really want to get down to his legacy you can just look at what he did before the UFC as well, he’s one of the fastest promoted individuals to Black Belt in BJJ history, he’s the first non-Brazilian (not just American) to win gold in the Mundial black belt division, hell I’ll just cut and paste this real fast to accentuate the point:
" * May 1997 – Enters first tournament in Bakersfield, CA and wins both his weight and the open weight class.
* June 1997 – Enters the Joe Moreira tournament as a blue belt winning his weight class.
* June 1997 – Wins submission grappling tournament
* 1997 – Receives blue belt from Ralph Gracie
* 1997 – Enters Brasileiro and places 4th in his weight class, blue belt category
* 1997 – Continues to enter tournaments upon return from Brazil placing first consistently
* 1998 – Silver medal at Brazilian Mundials competition in his weight division; receives purple belt upon return
* 1999 – Bronze medal at Brazilian Mundials in heavier weight class as a newly promoted Nova Uniao brown.
* 1999 – Gold medal, Copa Pacifica Tournament in Los Angeles, CA
* 1999 – Receives Black belt from Andre Pederneiras just 3 weeks before the 2000 Mundials
* 1999 – Joins Nova Uniao Competition Team (reserved for the four top team competitors)
* 2000 – First non-Brazilian to win gold medal in black belt division of the Mundial World Championships held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil."
That is an absolutely sick record, put that into context that he also has no problem punching the living daylights out of people and you get an absolute monster of a fighter. Not to even mention his natural talents.
People who want to question his legacy are out of their mind, I’m pretty sure his legacy is solid at this point; the only thing he can prove to people is that when it comes down to it, he’ll put the work in.
by AboveThisFire on Aug 3, 2009 8:34 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
This is always odd to me. Basically Penn has lost one fight in his life in the weight class he belongs in. The win over Hughes was a huge moment because Hughes was at the peak of his career and I value that win a lot more than I do the losses to GSP or Hughes because it was an extraordinary effort to win. The Machida fight is another where it was well outside of the weight where he should be fighting.
It’s not like he drags a lot of people to decisions, he dominates in his weight class and has for his entire career. There’s no way I see a loss to Florian really ruining his legacy. …there is also no way I see a loss to Florian happening.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 3, 2009 8:35 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
agreed,
I’d also like to not that his performances in GSP1, and Hughes 2 were not bad performances… (nor was his loss to Machida)….
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on Aug 3, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was kinda impressed by his fight against machida.
I think you can always tarnish your legacy, but for someone like BJ he got more chances to do it outside the octagon. If you want an example of tarnished legacy I got this illegal headbutt to matterazzi (“mais pourquoi?” → but why?lol). The worst part being he retired right after that match.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
by spectaa on Aug 3, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he really wanted to play Zidane could play in MLS today…almost any team in the league would sign him as their designated player…
by Reaser16 on Aug 3, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Maybe if GSP moves up and defeats Silva and Hendo and then moves up three weight classes to beat a rising HW like Velasquez will I stop giving BJ credit for not only moving up and fighting these much bigger guys but then either beating or holding his own with everyone except GSP in the second fight.
by rabrown on Aug 3, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Penn has a chance to make a big statement by beating Florian. Whatever legacy he has is as a LW fighter. He has 1 title defense at this point, so he needs to fight and beat the top LW fighters. His foray into WW got him brutally beaten by GSP, and the prefight and postfight antics of Penn seemed to indicate he cares more about PR than actually fighting to prove what his legacy is.
Florian is the toughest matchup Penn has had at LW, so this fight will be telling. Penn can earn his props with a big win, instead of having his religious nutso fans try to explain why various losses in the past actually should count as wins.
by Hardcharger on Aug 3, 2009 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm digging all the love for Penn here.
The fact that his legacy is being mentioned in the same breath as GSP, Hughes, and Fedor says a lot about what has already been determined. A loss to Florian followed by another loss to some mid-tier fighter might relegate him to the senior circuit, like Hughes.
by rzor on Aug 3, 2009 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why is Hughes in the senior circuit? He’s only recently lost to Alves and GSP. That doesn’t = senior circuit to me.
by CliChe Guevara on Aug 3, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hughes' last fight
was versus Sera, which was nothing more than a grudge match against an older fighter on his way to full-time trainer. After two losses to the champion, it’s also going to be very difficult for Hughes to gain another title shot. Hughes himself has acknowledged he is in the twilight of his career. In my opinion, Joe Silva can either use Hughes as a gatekeeper (e.g. the Thiago fight) or let him finish his career with a couple more wins versus older fighters and grudge matches.
by rzor on Aug 3, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Verrrry close fight as well
I thought Serra won.
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Aug 3, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen the fight in a while
but I was surprised people thought the decision was wrong. I saw it as a definitive Hughes win, but I also had a biased opinion, being a fan of Hughes (fan of Penn and Hughes? What’s wrong with me?!).
by rzor on Aug 3, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am fine with either fighter winning...
a draw would even be fine with me.
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Aug 3, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BJ got Kenflo's number
hes gone fuck kenny up and then will see him vs diego sanchez his tuffiest test in thast division
by SHOWMAN 56 on Aug 3, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've got Florian for this one
I’m not a huge fan of either fighter. I have found Kenny to be a lil too high on himself in the past and although he has seemed to tone it down, first impressions are lasting. As for BJ, liking the blood of your opponnent off your gloves at the end of the fight is nasty, and disrespectful.
I think that Florian’s hight will be an advantage and his muy tai is spectacular. If he can implement a similiar game plan that GSP had, it’s in the bag for him. Kickbox for the first round, keep him at a distance and when he shoots for the inevitable takedown, clinch up and use his muytai and killer elbows. Florian via TKO 2nd round.
by Annie83 on Aug 3, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've got KenFlo for this one too
Although I have to agree, he does seem to be awfully full of himself lately. But hey, sometimes you gotta pump yourself up.
I don’t know if KenFlo will WIN, but I am definitely rooting for him!
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
by funnytiger on Aug 3, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freddie Roach has said that BJ Penn is the best boxer in MMA. Being the best boxer might not account for much but BJ also is a prodigy in jiu jitsu and knows how to mix his game very well. Your first paragraph has nothing to do with fighting skill except for noting that BJ gets his opponents blood on his gloves a lot.
Furthermore, Florian is only 1 inch taller than BJ. And Florian will not be able to adopt a similar gameplan as GSP unless he all of a sudden becomes the best wrestler in MMA and outweighs BJ by 20+ pounds in the ring. You severely underestimate BJ Penn’s striking ability.
by Dropkick434 on Aug 3, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
those were awesome Nick!
Thanks!!
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
by funnytiger on Aug 3, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bj gone finish him
by tko or subimmision in the round 1 and florian will bloody mess when its all set and down
by SHOWMAN 56 on Aug 3, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The key for Penn in this fight is to resist the urge to fight standing and get Florian down. Penn’s offensive wrestling is underrated; he definitely has the ability to put Florian on his back, and that’s where Penn can really do a lot of damage.
I agree, but I don’t see BJ following this advice. His arrogance is the one enemy he has never been able to conquer.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Aug 3, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BJ seems determined, but so does Florian. I’m going to give this one to Florian, based on game plan, intelligence, and cardio. I also think he is more technical, although I’m sure a lot of people will disagree.
by goodbones on Aug 3, 2009 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So if BJ’s win over Sherk means nothing, than what does Florians loss to Sherk mean?
by Dropkick434 on Aug 3, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BJ losing to Florian
Is not indicative of BJ Penn. It just means Florian has finally come into his own. BJ Penn is great fighter. Kenny Florian is also one bad ass motherf*cker.
by cyph on Aug 3, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Close Fight
BJ’s an all around fighter. KenFlo Is also. I want to see kenny throw some nasty elbows like the ones he threw at Sherk. I Really want to see Kenny lick BJ’s blood of his glove. I got KenFlo TKO 2nd Round
by Call me No Touch on Aug 4, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
Related FanShots on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
