Bloody Elbow: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Holy War Week Brings out the Worst in Fans

UFC 102 Preview: The Tournament Where Randy Couture Almost Fought Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira

Randy Couture gets the takedown on Valentijn Overeem at RINGS King of Kings 2000.

Randy Couture gets the takedown on Valentijn Overeem at RINGS King of Kings 2000.

Josh Gross reminds us of the historic RINGS King of Kings 2000 tournament where Randy and Big Nog nearly met in the final round:

...the pair will meet for the first time at UFC 102 knowing they could have as easily done the same eight years ago in their primes during a historic tournament that helped shape the sport.

Four months removed from recapturing the UFC heavyweight championship in 2000 against Kevin Randleman, Couture advanced into the semifinals of Japan's RINGS 32-man "King of Kings 2000" tournament, considered at the time the best heavyweight field ever assembled, before being upset by the talented but heady Valentijn Overeem.

Defeating Nogueira in the finals would have given Couture ownership of the title as MMA's best heavyweight just when Zuffa assumed control of the UFC. Instead, when Couture tapped to a guillotine and Nogueira secured an arm-triangle against Alistair Overeem's older brother, it was the jiu-jitsu pioneering Brazilian who walked away as the sport's top heavyweight -- thus signaling years of debate about the caliber of competition between U.S. and Japanese fight organizations.

No one could have known it then, but that loss, which gnaws at Couture's competitive soul, played a major role in the growth of Japanese MMA and its reputation from 2000 through 2006 for showcasing MMA's best heavyweights.

This great piece by Shu Hirata gives more background on that tournament, and its 1999 predecessor, why it had the funky no striking to the head on the ground rules. Here's an excerpt:

K.O.K. (King of Kings) was Akira Maeda's answer to the world in regards to the rapid invasion of "The Black Ship" named Gracie Jiu-jitsu and Vale Tudo in the Japanese fight sports community. The public was definitely shifting towards "real fight." The fans were hungry, anxious to see, who truly is the strongest. And no striking to the head on the ground was Maeda's answer. The fans, especially those hardcore well-informed types, were thrilled with Maeda's invention.

This was back in 1999 when everyone was still debating, regarding both the sports and entertainment aspects, and which would be the most suitable rules for MMA. PRIDE was experimenting with different rules such as 60 minutes (Renzo vs. Kikuta) and 30 minutes (Kimo vs. Severn) matches so Maeda believers in Japan thought, hey, these K.O.K. rules could turn out to be the more interesting to see as a spectator sport!

This, also, was a historical conversion for RINGS because it meant that they had finally decided to just concentrate on the competition. The era was thirsty for real fighting, and this was no longer just indispensable. In order for them to stay competitive in the Japanese professional sports market, this decision was unavoidable.

...

RINGS started to experiment with K.O.K. rules in the "World Mega-Battle Tournament" which opened on October 28th 1999. Maeda began implementing his invention with a 5-minutes-per-round-for-2-round system in this 32-man tournament.

No striking to the head and no stalling. These two points were the backbone of K.O.K. rules. Maeda and RINGS wanted to create a sports-like MMA show without any smell of street fighting. So Maeda first got rid of elbow shots and in the next, he took out kicking to a grounded opponent. Then finally, and most importantly, Maeda took out all strikes to the head on the ground. Then he came up with something very revolutionary and that is the concept of "no stalling" which was applied to refereeing under K.O.K. rules.

In the end, RINGS lost its promotional war with PRIDE and the rules set of the K.O.K. tournies is now seen as an odd aberration in MMA history, a wrong turn if you will. But at the time it was a valid experiment in conducting sporting fights.

The 1999 and 2000 RINGS K.O.K. tournies were part of a consolidation of world-wide MMA into one top tier talent pool After half a decade of the top fighters mostly beating cans in smaller events, RINGS and PRIDE brought the best fighters in the world together in three open weight tournaments: the 1999 and 2000 RINGS K.O.K. tournies and the PRIDE 2000 GP.

The 1999 K.O.K. line-up was stellar and the 2000 was even more so. In addition to Couture, Nogueira, and Overeem (the brother of Alistair) it included Brazilian aces Renato "Babalu" Sobral, Carlao Barreto, and Roberto Traven, RINGS stars Tsuyoshi Kohsaka and Kiyoshi Tamura, Russian stars Volk Han and Mikhail Illoukhin (plus a fairly unheralded new comer named Fedor Emelianenko), American independent circuit aces Bobby Hoffman, Jeremy Horn and Dave Menne.

When Nogueira won the K.O.K. 2000, after losing in the finals of the 1999 tourny to Dan Henderson by split decision, it established him as indisputably one of the top fighters in the world. When he moved over to PRIDE and beat Mark Coleman and Heath Herring in fairly short order, he became the undisputed top heavyweight in the sport.

I'll be writing more about the K.O.K. tournaments in my MMA History series soon, but this was a timely occasion for a little preview.

Videos from the event in the full entry.

Ufc_102_button_medium

Star-divide

Randy Couture vs Valentijn Overeem
RINGS King of Kings 2000 Final February 24, 2001

Image_asset

 

Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira vs Valentijn Overeem
Rings King of Kings 2000 Final February 24, 2001

1 recs  |  Comment 22 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Good stuff

Very interesting. I know some about early MMA, but this was new to me.

by SES 84 on Aug 29, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Also, Randy fought the winner of TK and Fedor.

by Jahbulon on Aug 29, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Reading this makes me want to go out and buy the KOK tournaments on dvd!

for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.

by Bandaka on Aug 29, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So I hope this puts to rest the idea some people have that TK “won” against Fedor for any other reason than to have a fighter move on in the tourney bracket. No elbows allowed —> cut caused by an illegal elbow —> any other fight it would have been a DQ or NC.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Aug 29, 2009 2:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

no dq or nc in the UFC. SF doesnt have elbows to a downed opponent as well. how convienient.
“me no care for elbows”. :)

by bdw on Aug 29, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well the apparent lack of appetite for elbows is another story… :)

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Aug 29, 2009 3:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

ya, and Fedor got a BS decision “win” over Arona…

what’s you point? Fedor has a loss, big deal, people try to take the loss of his record or give excuses for it, well in the same tournament he should have lost a decision to Arona (at worst a Draw)…works both ways…

by Reaser16 on Aug 29, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree with you Reaser16

IMO, Fedor lost to Arona fare and square!!

Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit.

by mma is #1 on Aug 29, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How is it a B.S. “Win” when he won according to the rules – winning in the overtime round?

Vs.

Opponent hits you with an ILLEGAL strike that causes a cut which requires a stoppage. Under any other circumstance he (Fedor) wins via DQ or if the cut is accidental its a NC – but they needed to put someone thru to the next round and obviously the guy with the cut can’t go on. The EXACT same thing happened in the HWGP finals with Nog – headbutt causes a cut and the fight needs to be stopped —> NC not a win for Nog.

I seriously don’t get how anyone conflates that to a “loss” with any kind of logical thinking, other than an attempt to pile on someone they have an obvious agenda to hate on (surprise, surprise).

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Aug 29, 2009 3:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t care either way, and it’s clear you’re the one with the agenda…this post wasn’t even about Fedor and you come in going on about how Fedor’s loss shouldn’t count (yet it does)…I haven’t watched these fights or even talked about them in a while but here’s what I remember seeing…

1. The strike was accidental, he didn’t “throw” an elbow, arguing that he threw an illegal strike is akin to saying someone should be DQ’d for hitting another guy in the back of the head when his opponent tries to duck a punch and it hits in the back of the head. Doesn’t count…

2. The strike didn’t cause the cut, cut was already there, it re-opened a previous cut…

3. You’re arguing Fedor only lost because of tournament rules and it shouldn’t count, then you want to count his win over Arona which was also due to tournament rules. Can’t pick and choose, either you don’t want to count tournament rules in which case Fedor still lost to TK and would have had a Draw against Arona (tho Arona “won” the fight in most neutrals eyes, officially would have been a draw)…or you want to count tournament rules and Fedor lost to TK and got a BS decision win over Arona, choose one or the other and stick with it…

by Reaser16 on Aug 29, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I missed something in that I wasn’t aware it was a “tournament rule” that if an illegal/accidental strike caused a stoppage cut the other fighter went on. Wouldn’t that be a pretty big motivation to accidentally throw an illegal stike?

Hitting someone in the back of the head in the way you said it is not the right comparison. The more proper one would be where a fighter throws a groin shot and the guy cannot continue – it was accidental but the person doesn’t get to benefit from it.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Aug 29, 2009 5:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

how do you purposely accidentally throw an illegal strike??

it’s a loss, it will always be a loss, it should have been a loss and he should have also lost the decision to Arona but got a BS decision in his favor…big deal…

you’re so stuck on this alleged illegal strike, it wasn’t like TK loaded up an elbow strike and it cut Fedor, TK threw a normal strike and it re-opened a previous cut, Fedor couldn’t continue, its a TKO…just like Diaz lost to KJ Noons by TKO (Cut)…same thing…no one who can’t continue due to a groin strike loses by TKO (groin strike) (unless of course ref misses it which isn’t the point here)…my comparison was legit…

Fedor lost by TKO, fact…is it weak to lose by a cut, yes, but it’s happend to many more fighters in mma than Fedor, and it’s a TKO loss…

Fedor beat Arona by a very debatable decision, the fight wasn’t finished/stopped unlike Fedor-TK, it went to decision, a decision most/many neutrals (don’t like or hate Fedor) believe Arona should have won, making Fedor getting the win bullshit…not sure why that’s so hard to understand or why you feel the need to fabricate what happened and make non legit comparisons to groin strikes and head-butts…two things that aren’t even close to a strike causing a cut which ends the fight which makes it a TKO (cut)…obviously you have some agenda or you’re on Fedor’s bandwagon so it’s pointless to keep arguing…most of us know what happened…

TK beat Fedor, gifted but legit win due to cut…
Fedor beat Arona, gifted and debatable win due to judges fucking up…

evened out, like I said in my original response to your post…

by Reaser16 on Aug 29, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh, I guess last thing…

you originally say TK only won because it was a tournament and someone needed to advance…

which would be the exact same reason Fedor “beat” Arona, because it was a tournament and they needed someone to advance, which is why after a draw, it went an extra round…yet you have no hesitation in “counting” this win for Fedor…hmmm
(and Arona should have got the decision so judges fucked up)

I said you can’t have it both ways, somehow that blew your mind…

by Reaser16 on Aug 29, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So Draw —> OT round —> winner of OT round = winner of fight

Is the same as:

Illegal (accidental) strike causing a fighter to not be able to continue the fight (or to the next round) causing a clear NC to be a TKO?

Right – you really are blowing my mind genius.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Aug 29, 2009 6:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

ugh, which goes back to my example of throwing a punch and the opponent ducks or moves and it ends up hitting the back of the head causing a KO…

Striking the back of the head = illegal
Both fighters standing…in “mid” strike opponent moves so strike accidentally hits back of head = not considered/ruled/called illegal
Result if fighter is KO’d = KO (not NC or DQ)

In this case, elbows were illegal…

Elbow strike = illegal
Standing strike the elbow accidentally catches Fedor re-opening cut = not considered/ruled/called illegal
Fighter can’t continue do to cut caused by strike not ruled illegal = always a TKO

the TK-Fedor result happens regardless of tournament or not…
the Fedor-Arona result only happens because of tournament (and bad judging in the extra round)…

either way, Fedor got a cheap loss and a cheap win, in the same tournament, again, which is why I said it equals out…

maybe you’re fabricating things and freaking out because you want to consider Fedor undefeated??? Why let facts and actual records stand in your way, consider him to have never been beaten, never lost a round, whatever makes you feel better about being a bandwagon Fedor fan…

I, like many others, will continue to count the TK loss because that’s the rules, TKO (cut)…and I, like many others, will continue to think Arona got screwed on that decision…

by Reaser16 on Aug 29, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how are you not seeing this…

you keep saying TK-Fedor fight was a clear NC but because of the tournament it was ruled a TKO…
(wasn’t a clear NC but to help you understand)

so what you think would be the normal result changed because of tournament in your eyes? right?

Fedor-Arona, was a draw but because of the tournament they fought an extra round which was given to Fedor…
(Arona should have got the decision but disregard so you comprehend)…

so normal result (draw) became a win for Fedor after an extra round which was fought because of the tournament…

how do you not get this???

hypothetically if there was no tournament and these were just single fights on a normal card;
TK beats Fedor by TKO (cut) or in your eyes TK-Fedor is a NC
Fedor-Arona fight to a draw

You keep saying TK-Fedor result was changed because of tournament, do you not see how the Fedor-Arona outcome was affected by it being contested in the same tournament? really? fuck dude, come on…

by Reaser16 on Aug 29, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who’s purposely accidentally throwing illegal strikes?? Wtf are you going on about.

Accidental groin shot (i.e. When GSP kicked Hughes in the cup), is pretty close to TK accidentally using an elbow to (re)open a cut with an elbow (which wasn’t re-opened with a punch, but an elbow – which accidental or not is an illegal strike). And just like no one who cannot continue bc of a groin strike (accidental or not) loses via TKO neither should a person who can’t continue due to an illegal strike (accidental or not). Apparently due to a a decision to have a fighter who could go on to the next round, TK got the TKO victory – so of course its on the record as a loss. But whatever you yell the loudest pal and don’t seem to get it, especially with this hard on about the Arona decision…

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Aug 29, 2009 6:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

you said “Wouldn’t that be a pretty big motivation to accidentally throw an illegal stike?”

which “motivation” = purposely accidentally throwing an illegal strike…you said it, not me…genius

by Reaser16 on Aug 29, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also pretty sure the comment above mine explicitly says “Randy fought the winner of TK and Fedor”, as well as he being mentioned in the article itself and comments. So…

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Aug 29, 2009 5:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I really don’t see a way that Randy wins tonight unless he muscles Nogueira against the cage for three rounds, which is unlikely. Nogueira won’t let Randy just sit in his half-guard and work for nothing the entire 15 minutes either. Randy actually will have to work for this win and I think Nogueira has the advantage wherever the fight goes except in the clinch.

http://twitter.com/FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Aug 29, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone know

what flag Nogueira is waving at the end of the Overeem fight?

by loboplata on Aug 29, 2009 6:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken
Start posting on Bloody Elbow »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Weoweoweodotdeviantartdotcom_by_weoweoweo_small
TUF 10 Contestant, Darrill Schoonover to Return to Active Army Duty
Tracy_lee_martin_mcneil_small
UPDATE: It's (99%) on: Machida / Rua II on May 1st
Headkick-lg_small
Judging Change: Reward Flashy Fighters?
Small
The REAL Controversy at UFC 106
Mirkneebaraim640_small
Georges St Pierre vs. Dan Hardy to Headline UFC 109 in February?

Recent FanPosts

Small
John "Doomsday" Howard Talks Hallman, Hughes
Weoweoweodotdeviantartdotcom_by_weoweoweo_small
How's Taste My Tweet Tweet? Mixed Martial Arts on Twitter for the 4th Week of November
Alvarezavatar_small
UPDATE: SRC x DREAM NYE Event Now OFFICIAL!
Weoweoweodotdeviantartdotcom_by_weoweoweo_small
Ben Saunders Still Wants a Rematch Against Mike Swick (UPDATE)
Picture_010_small
What if: Dan Gable would have been a fighter?
Neil_lomax_small
UFC vs. Boxing PPV dilemma (May 1, 2010 edition)
Weoweoweodotdeviantartdotcom_by_weoweoweo_small
Dan Hardy: "Josh Koscheck Is Like A Piece of S*** That Just Won't Flush."
Picture_010_small
What if Kimbo beats Houston Alexander?
Just_tiger_small
Kim Couture (10K) top earner at Strikeforce Challengers V

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

MMA Rankings

USA Today / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings