USAT/SBN August MMA Consensus Rankings: Lightweight

by Kid Nate on Aug 29, 2009 8:20 AM EDT in Rankings Comment 45 comments

Rank	Fighter	%	Promotion	Last Rank
1	B.J. Penn	100	UFC	1
2	Shinya Aoki	93	DREAM	3
3	Eddie Alvarez	87	Bellator/DREAM/Strikeforce	4
4	Kenny Florian	82	UFC	2
5	Frank Edgar	73	UFC	6
6	Tatsuya Kawajiri	69	DREAM	7
7	Gray Maynard	64	UFC	9
8	Diego Sanchez	63	UFC	8
9	Joachim Hansen	59	DREAM	5
10	Sean Sherk	49	UFC	11
11	Josh Thomson	43	Strikeforce	12
12	Gesias Cavalcante	35	DREAM	13
13	Mizuto Hirota	27	WVR	27
14	Gilbert Melendez	26	Strikeforce	18
15	Satoru Kitaoka	25	WVR	10
16	Tyson Griffin	23	UFC	14
17	Jamie Varner	21	WEC	21
18	Eiji Mitsuoka	20	WVR	15
19	Joe Stevenson	20	UFC	17
20	Spencer Fisher	19	UFC	20
20	Clay Guida	19	UFC	19
22	Kurt Pellegrino	18	UFC	30
23	Takanori Gomi	18	WVR	16
24	Roger Huerta	15	UFC	23
25	Nate Diaz	14	UFC	25

Rankings compiled by Richard Wade.

With his sound defeat of #4 (former #2) Kenny Florian at UFC 101, #1 B.J. Penn has once again attained a 100% ranking as the unanimous #1 lightweight of all the top sites in MMA.

Ironically, the drop he caused in KenFlo's ranking has allowed DREAM's Shinya Aoki to rise to #2 and Bellator's Eddie Alvarez to get back to #3.Bellator/'s Eddie Alvarez to get back to #3. Aoki is coming off a rather lackluster decision win over Vitor Ribeiro at DREAM.10. He'll next face #9 Joachim Hansen in a title bout at DREAM.11 in October. This will be a rubber-match for the pair, having split their first two bouts.

B.J. is expected to defend his belt against #8 Diego Sanchez at UFC 105 in October.

#7 Gray Maynard will next fight against #24 Roger Huerta at UFN 19 in September.

UPDATE (from the comments): In response to a couple of good questions I wrote the following to explain why this division is a bit of a mess:

The thing with the lightweights is that a lot of the top guys fought each other and created some ugly loops. I’m thinking of Melendez losing to Ishida and Thomson, Kawajiri losing to Melendez and Alvarez, Calvancante losing to Kawajiri and Aoki, Aoki losing to Hansen, Hansen losing to Alvarez and Mitsuoka, Ishida losing to Melendez and Uno, Gomi losing to Kitaoka (and that other guy), Kitaoka losing to Hirota, Mitsuoka losing to Kitaoka….etc etc

I think if the DREAM/Strikeforce and WVR pools could settle on one top fighter the way the UFC has there would be huge demand to see that fighter against B.J. Penn.

But as long as the Japanese lightweight pools are gripped by parity, there is no pressure on the UFC to make the big acquisitions and as long as B.J. Penn keeps cleaning up on the UFC lightweight division, the Japanese guys will be dominating the #2 – 5 spots.

About the consensus rankings:

Based on the premise that all MMA rankings are subjective but that it’s still useful and informative to know who the online MMA community as a whole ranks as the best fighters in MMA, we collect and average the rankings of the top MMA websites to produce our consensus rankings.

Show more " We compile the top MMA rankings from each of our sources and award 25 points for a first place ranking, 16 for a 10th place ranking, 1 for a 25th place ranking. A formula is used to "normalize" the data so all fighters are awarded points from those lists that do not include a full 25 fighters. This formula ensures that each ranking site awards the same number of total points regardless of how many fighters they choose to rank. Each fighter’s total is divided by the number of possible points to determine their standing in the Consensus Rankings.

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Could Eddie Alvarez actually beat any of the other fighters in the top 8 other than Kawajiri?

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 27, 2009 11:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He could, but I think he’d have to be considered the underdog in those fights were they to happen.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 27, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well yeah, that’s the point I was getting at. Brett Rogers could beat Fedor but anyone who bets on it (even at +800) is crazy.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 27, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but current Kawajiri would win.

Crusher is the best

by Meshuggeth on Aug 29, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Finally got fustrated enough to add a disclaimer about the Consensus Rankings?

Keep firing Assholes!

ZE GOGGLES! ZAY DO NOZING!!!!

by Ubernoober on Aug 28, 2009 10:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hasn’t that always been there?

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Aug 29, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not front and centre

Keep firing Assholes!

ZE GOGGLES! ZAY DO NOZING!!!!

by Ubernoober on Aug 29, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sad to think how far JZ and Ribeiro have fallen due to injuries. Before his injury, Vitor Ribeiro was arguably top five.

http://twitter.com/FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Aug 28, 2009 11:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Maynard was a guy i have been watching for a while. Its good to see him up in the rankings. I believe he may have the tools to give BJ a hard fight, not sure if he will be able to beat Bj at this point and time but maybe in 3 or 4 fights. Also sherk NEEDS to get back to his wrestling base, his stubby T-Rex type arms make it for a field day for any one looking to stand with him.

by Riley_96 on Aug 28, 2009 11:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hirota is in World Victory Road by the way.

by Meshuggeth on Aug 29, 2009 12:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks for pointing that out

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 29, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sherk is top 10?

Hasn’t he dropped 2/3 fights since his suspension? Even the one he did win against Griffin wasn’t convincing or all that impressive. It’s like he turned into a boxer.

by Johnnynumber5 on Aug 29, 2009 2:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Iiiiish – wow. I don’t think I realized when I made my Eddie Alvarez comments that he was ranked #3. In my head I thought he was 8-10. No wonder I got dogpiled!! That’s a bit much for sure.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Aug 29, 2009 3:04 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Ya know, looking at this again, you really have to marvel at the fact that two years ago this division was stacked from top to bottom. Now, outside of about five guys, there’s really no one to keep an eye on.

http://twitter.com/FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Aug 29, 2009 3:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It is still stacked, just the perceptions have changed.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 29, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what happened

is that a lot of the top guys fought each other and created some ugly loops. I’m thinking of Melendez losing to Ishida and Thomson, Kawajiri losing to Melendez and Alvarez, Calvancante losing to Kawajiri and Aoki, Aoki losing to Hansen, Hansen losing to Alvarez and Mitsuoka, Ishida losing to Melendez and Uno, Gomi losing to Kitaoka (and that other guy), Kitaoka losing to Hirota, Mitsuoka losing to Kitaoka….etc etc
I think if the DREAM/Strikeforce and WVR pools could settle on one top fighter the way the UFC has there would be huge demand to see that fighter against B.J. Penn.
But as long as the Japanese lightweight pools are gripped by parity, there is no pressure on the UFC to make the big acquisitions and as long as B.J. Penn keeps cleaning up on the UFC lightweight division, the Japanese guys will be dominating the #2 – 5 spots.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 29, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

The loops are frustrating, and trying to rank people in two pretty separate pools is frustrating. Scratch that, ranking anything is just plain frustrating.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 29, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was well said

"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight what you saw, in the ring"

by crinow on Aug 29, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

More then any other division in the sport, a consensus Top 10 for lightweights is pointless. The top guys in the UFC haven’t fought the top guys outside it. I might be missing a fight or two, but only BJ Penn and Clay Guida have fought non-UFC fighters on that list. There just isn’t enough crossover to make any list credible. This is a case where a UFC Top 10 and Everything Else Top 10 makes the most sense.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 29, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Suggestion for a new disclaimer for the consensus rankings

“Listen here asswipe, if you have a problem with the rankings, don’t bitch at us. We don’t write the shit, we just compile the numbers. If you disagree with where someone is ranked that’s fine, say it, but don’t say “LOL who is the idiot who wrote this Tim Sylvia is still ranked ZOMG what a bunch of morons” because that just makes you loook stupid, not us."

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 29, 2009 11:31 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs

Wow Cerrone at #26 huh? And Gomi and is over him.. WIth “Tougher Competition” at that.. How bout they humor us and make that quick switch for those 2. IMO Cerrone belongs in the UFC’s LW division anyways.

I Got Chocoloate Bubblegum!!

by MrRuination on Aug 29, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Kenny Florian does not deserve to be at #4. Maynard and Edgar deserve to be higher than him – both have beaten much better guys.

Visit MMAEruption.com!

by MMAEruption on Aug 29, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I cant wait once all these problems of guys not fighting in different pools of talent, different rules, etc… are gone so a clearer and more accurate picture develops.

I mean how many butt scooters have done well in the UFC? almost none. Maia’s guard pull to top position is rare and he’s still not at the top of his division so the jury is still out.

One dimensional fighters dont last in the UFC but they seem to kick ass elsewhere which says something about the competition ranked behind them…

by mmalogic on Aug 29, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah

I can’t wait until you guys succeed at driving real submission artists from the sport so we can enjoy ever more sloppy versions of Griffin vs Bonner.
The UFC has really molded Sean Sherk and Jorge Gurgel into exciting dynamos — nothing better than seeing decades spent mastering the arts of wrestling and BJJ thrown out the window so the world can enjoy more shitty kickboxing. FIGHT OF THE NIGHT BONUS BABY!!!!
I’m just busting your balls, but really. Some of us will always enjoy seeing fights in the ring as well as the cage — in my mind its the clay court and grass court of tennis.
Personally I always preferred the UFC rules and the cage to the PRIDE rules and the ring, but if the ring is erased from the sport and we no longer get to see artists like Shinya Aoki practice their craft, then it will be a sad day.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 29, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

Yeah, I like the different styles represented in the UFC, sure some are more exciting than others but the really boring ones will be gone in short order so that’s not a concern. If I wanted to see shitty boxing I’d order Showtime.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 29, 2009 12:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Clay court and grass court… that about sums up my position on the ring/cage debate. Nice.

And even though it impedes round-by-round judging, which I think is more practical, I would miss the 10-minute opening round if we lost it, too.

by JRN on Aug 29, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gurgel didnt change his gameplan when he went to strikeforce…

I would love to see a top submission guy get to the top – It just hasn’t happened.

A top striker or wrestler gets to the top because their a master at one and very good at the other disciplines… I have yet to see a master in BJJ become very good in the other 2 disciplines except for BJ penn.

Maia is a master at BJJ and has darn good wrestling. If he becomes very good at using striking then he could be the first.

BJ penn = Master at BJJ and very good at striking and wrestling.

GSP = Master at wrestling and very good at striking and wrestling.

Anderson = Master at Striking and very good at BJJ and very good at wrestling.

Machida = Master at Striking and very good at BJJ and wrestling.

Is there a wonder why these guys are at the top. Fedor is also at the top but the HW division has always been the weakest division in terms of talent. He has a hole in his game… he cant stop the takedown from a very good wrestler. A fighter who can get on top of him without being submitted first will beat him.

The HW division has evolved and continues to.

While Fedor has been and continues to sharpen his saw with dull blades the HW’s in the UFC have been on the the bleeding edge with the best steel to work their metal on.

I’d bet on the Randy of Randy v Brock… Id also bet on Brock over Fedor. Maybe even Carwin.

A great wrestler with very good submission defense is Fedors kryptonite…

Regarding where fight dynamics are heading:

Right now the biggest gap is in Striking…. this sport was created on BJJ and wrestling. That’s in everyones diet. The Master Strikers who are very good at wrestling and BJJ will own tomorrow because the gap is very wide in this category. Anderson and Machida look like Royce Gracie fighting in the 90’s.

When I say “MAster” and “very good at” i mean in THE USE OF IT in MMA… ultimately all of this is glued together with transition. Transitions are key to gel everything together.

by mmalogic on Aug 29, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

@mmalogic

Brock wouldn’t make it out of the first round against Fedor at this point in his career. Maybe down the line but they aren’t even in the same discussion at this yet in their careers. Lesnar is the most overhyped and overrated fighter in the sport today. Lesnar hasn’t shown me anything to prove he is hands down better than Rogers, Dos Santos, Velasquez and Carwin. All of those guys have one impressive win on their resume (Couture, Arlovski, Werdum, Kongo & Gonzaga) and other than that not much else to speak of in terms of strong competition. Don’t overhype these prospects who have the potential to be great but haven’t prove anything yet. I have a real strong feeling that Carwin is going to knock Lesnar out.

Lesnar is the current day Bob Sapp. He has size, strength and is a freak of nature. Everyone thought Sapp was unbeatable just like most think of Lesnar. I would like to see someone test his cardio because he looked pink in the face during round 2 against Couture. You take Lesnar into deep water and it’s good night Irene. All that muscle works against him at that point. I would also like to see someone shoot on Lesnar and see how he fights off his back. Until I see Lesnar tested in different situations and how he does then I can’t say he is one of the better HW’s in the world. He is just a good thats a good PPV draw who is an athletic freak of nature. As long as the UFC protects him by throwing him has beens and not the best fighters in the world I’ll continue to believe he is little more than unproven hype.

by Johnnynumber5 on Aug 29, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lesnar pounding mir out from top position doesnt impress you?? beating the shit out of herring also doesnt work?

Couture is in a different league than werdum, Kongo, sylvia, arlovski etc…

Bobb Sapp? are you aware Lesnar is NCAA champ?

IF beating the snot out of Frank Mir, Randy Couture, Heath Herring means he is unproven hype then your argument is not even worth addressing further..

by mmalogic on Aug 29, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I honestly think the Mir win does little for proving much about Lesnar. Mir’s “elite” status has been bootstrapped to Lesnar’s rise in the ranks bc he snatched a sub on a complete and utter noob with little experience. Mir has been and probably will be one of the most overrated HW’s this side of Josh Barnett.

I think the wins over Herring and Couture say a lot more for him. For the detractors on those wins, I’m sure that there’s question marks about: (i) Couture’s age, rust from 18 months on the sidelines and not in full training and the gigantic size difference and; (ii) Herring’s pitiful wrestling and takedown D and gatekeeper status. But honestly, I think if you beat Herring (and of course Couture) you’re a top tier HW – he is the epitomy of gatekeeper and I mean that in the most respectful way.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Aug 29, 2009 3:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Mir is better than Sylvia and Arlovski.

Mir beat Sylvia when sylvia was at the top. Mir beat Nog when sylvia couldnt. Mir also has never been knocked out cold. Mir also beat Brock when Herring or Couture couldnt – ultimately lost but still…

Arlovski’s best win is werdum in a lackluster fight. He has fallen short with every other big opponent. He has never beaten a top tier heavyweight.

What impressed me about the Mir win is Brocks positioning… he was never in danger of a sub by one of the best submission guys at HW..

by mmalogic on Aug 29, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So you say….
“Don’t overhype these prospects who have the potential to be great but haven’t prove anything yet.”

And in the next sentence you say Carwin is gonna knock him out. You just contradicted yourself. You also say Brock has no gas tank, at least he has seen the second, and even third round, Carwin has never seen the third minute.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 29, 2009 4:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

I was gonna say the same thing re: gas tank point. Carwin’s got about 10min total ring time. Brock had more in the Herring fight alone.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Aug 29, 2009 5:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, this guy just seems to ne like another one of those “Brock used to be a pro wrestler” haters. If you aren’t impressed with what the guy has accomplished in just five pro fights then you are clearly biased.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 29, 2009 6:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Just because he hasn’t seen the third minute doesn’t mean his gas tank sucks. Just means he’s proficient at finishing fights.

I can assure you that Carwin’s tank is quite large.

http://twitter.com/FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Aug 29, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How exactly can you assure that when he has never been in that position? I don’t know if it is or it isn’t and I’m not gonna pretend like I do.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 29, 2009 8:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Has Carwin ever looked winded after a fight? You can bring up the Gonzaga fight but his nose was broken which causes distorted breathing. Knowing how hard Shane trains, I’m willing to say that his gas tank is not as small as the distance he goes in fights. That’s a common misconception among fans when talking about fighters. They think a fighter’s gas tank is only as long as the time he spends inside the cage. Training where Carwin trains, you just know that his tank is adequate enough for a long fight with Brock. Same with Brock’s tank.

http://twitter.com/FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Aug 29, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No he has never looked winded, he’s
never made it halfway through the first round.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 29, 2009 9:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Should that be used against him in regards to his tank?

http://twitter.com/FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Aug 29, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no but his point is that the other guy is assuming his Gas tank will last longer than Brocks who has been in fights longer than Carwins entire career.

by mmalogic on Aug 29, 2009 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not counting it against him but it’s kind of silly to ask a question like ‘has he ever looked winded after a fight’ when the guy has never been in a fight that would tire him.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 30, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs