USAT/SBN August MMA Consensus Rankings: Middleweight
by Kid Nate on Aug 28, 2009 11:47 AM EDT
in MMA Rankings
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| Rank | Fighter | % | Promotion | Last Rank |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Anderson Silva | 100 | UFC | 1 |
| 2 | Dan Henderson | 93 | UFC | 2 |
| 3 | Nate Marquardt | 89 | UFC | 3 |
| 4 | Yushin Okami | 87 | UFC | 3 |
| 5 | Demian Maia | 81 | UFC | 5 |
| 6 | Jorge Santiago | 81 | WVR | 6 |
| 7 | Robbie Lawler | 64 | Strikeforce | 7 |
| 8 | Vitor Belfort | 61 | UFC | 8 |
| 9 | Chael Sonnen | 57 | UFC | 11 |
| 10 | Yoshihiro Akiyama | 53 | UFC | 10 |
| 11 | Paulo Filho | 34 | DREAM | 13 |
| 12 | Kazuo Misaki | 27 | WVR | 15 |
| 13 | Patrick Cote | 24 | UFC | 20 |
| 14 | Michael Bisping | 22 | UFC | 14 |
| 15 | Alessio Sakara | 20 | UFC | NR |
| 16 | Thales Leites | 19 | Free Agent | 9 |
| 17 | Ronaldo Souza | 19 | DREAM | 16 |
| 18 | Nick Diaz | 18 | Strikeforce | 17 |
| 19 | Ricardo Almeida | 18 | UFC | 30 |
| 20 | Cung Le | 17 | Strikeforce | 23 |
| 21 | Hector Lombard | 16 | Bellator | 18 |
| 22 | Jake Shields | 16 | Strikeforce | 19 |
| 23 | Alan Belcher | 16 | UFC | 21 |
| 24 | Gegard Mousasi | 14 | M-1 Global/Strikeforce/DREAM | 12 |
| 25 | Dan Miller | 14 | UFC | 29 |
Rankings compiled by Richard Wade.
After what he did to #5 light heavyweight Forrest Griffin at UFC 101, #1 Anderson Silva is really playing hard to get with the middleweight division.
#2 Dan Henderson may have KTFO'd #14 Michael Bisping at UFC 100 and he's been promised the next title shot by Dana White, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on Henderson vs Silva II.
Meanwhile, #3 Nate Marquardt and #5 Demian Maia will face off at this weekend's UFC 102. It's the kind of bout that would earn the winner a guaranteed title shot in any ordinary division. But middleweight has long since ceased being ordinary.
At UFC 103, prodigal son #8 Vitor Belfort will return against #8 Light Heavyweight Rich Franklin in a 195lb catchweight bout. If Belfort wins, don't be shocked to see him rushed into a title shot against Anderson Silva.
The same can't be said of poor #4 Yushin Okami who will be fighting a very tough #9 Chael Sonnen on the undercard of UFC 104. Okami will have to do something really dramatic to get a title shot anytime soon. It's unfortunate he was injured and stepped aside to make way for #16 Thales Leites at UFC 97.
No word on what's next for #6 Jorge Santiago. He apparently missed a payment on his Josh Barnett fan club membership, causing a string of freak events that culminated in the cancellation of his scheduled Affliction: Trilogy fight with Vitor Belfort.
It's interesting to note that the men who will be fighting for the Strikeforce interim middleweight title, #22 (#4 welterweight) Jake Shields and #27 Jason "Mayhem" Miller are barely ranked among the top middleweights in the world. Of course Strikeforce champ #20 Cung Le is barely ranked himself. Regardless, I expect the winner of Shields vs Miller to take a big jump in the rankings once that bout is in the books.
Based on the premise that all MMA rankings are subjective but that it’s still useful and informative to know who the online MMA community as a whole ranks as the best fighters in MMA, we collect and average the rankings of the top MMA websites to produce our consensus rankings.
We compile the top MMA rankings from each of our sources and award 25 points for a first place ranking, 16 for a 10th place ranking, 1 for a 25th place ranking. A formula is used to “normalize” the data so all fighters are awarded points from those lists that do not include a full 25 fighters. This formula ensures that each ranking site awards the same number of total points regardless of how many fighters they choose to rank. Each fighter’s total is divided by the number of possible points to determine their standing in the Consensus Rankings.
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Lots of movement in the 11-25 range this month. I must have missed the good performance by Cung Le that allowed him to move up 3 spots. Thales Leites is dropping faster than Paris Hilton’s panties.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
That’s a result of the sites who still rank him highly being among the few that updated recently enough to make the cut.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Aug 27, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I see, I would think at this point most sites would just drop him completely.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
cung le is going to make a sick comeback
Heed my words, Cung is the MW version of Machida, and when he comes back to MMA everyone will be calling his name to the UFC
by Austin Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Cung Le is Asian version of Chuck Norris. He hasn’t got 50% skills that Machida has, and hasn’t achieve in MMA anything besides beating Frank Shamrock. He owes Frank Shamrock his fame…
by dancingChicken on Aug 28, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
UNDEAFEATED IN SAN SHOU
He could be undeafetwed in voo doo, but that still doesn’t make him great MMA fighter, cause he only beat (not with ease) Frank Shamrock.
by dancingChicken on Aug 28, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
san shou, shidokan, K-1, and MMA
that is pretty incredible
by Austin Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not impressed. He hasn’t fought anyone relevant in K1, and to be honest, his fights were under K1 rules, it’s not K1 the organization
by dancingChicken on Aug 28, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
el diablo, its like spanish for a fighting chicken, with the claws....
I’m not trying to argue or make you believe. just mind the words, and remember who said them. I just wish he was 5 years younger. He is still a force
by Austin Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying that he is a bum, but putting him in the same line with Machida and Spider (in terms of skill or achievments) is not right. Cung Le fought 11 min with Fryklund, Spider Ong Baked him in 2min.
by dancingChicken on Aug 28, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
he has achieved far more than spider in striking only sports
And i never mentioned him, i mentioned Machida… They both have kick first games backed up by a rounding in virtually every other area that allows them to win by precise striking
by Austin Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
My fault, you didn’t mention Spider, but…
Silva was Muay Thai champion, and I guess competition is a lot tougher in MT than San Shou, but whatever…
There’ are some similarities between Machida and Le, but c’mon, the guy fought bums, how can you prove yourself as a fighter fighting bums? There are a lot of fighters that have traditional martial arts background and look great against low level competition ,but we are talkin about one of the best fighters in the World.
by dancingChicken on Aug 28, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Excuse me if I my comments look offensive. I have nothing against Le, just got carried away :)
by dancingChicken on Aug 28, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Cung Le
is an excellent wrestler which is the thing most people who bag on him miss.
With his unconventional and effective striking combined with great wrestling he’s a threat to anyone.
His big weakness is in the submission game but so far that’s been untested.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
my two concerns with Cung
are
1) his age and inactivity.
2) his size — he’s too small to be fighting at middleweight IMO.
Personally if I was doing rankings I’d X him out for inactivity, but that’s separate from his ability as a fighter.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
why would you shoot
if you can break a mans arm en route to TKOing him.
Machida doesn’t shoot often, and Silva never does
by Austin Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry i mistook the point
and i agree with what you said right below this lol
by Austin Martin on Aug 28, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
that is horseshit and slander
Shamrock of the busted knees shot on him once and got shucked off.
Others have shot on him and gotten thrown.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
lol, go hang out at some of the local shows… you’ll see the no-shoot bonus is quite common.
So far Cung’s opponents havent shot for shit… whether thats because his opponents suck or have broken knee caps or are paid not to or decided for the hell of it to just stand with a stand up fighter can be debated.
By the way if you really watch Franks “shot” he didnt really shoot in. The position was given to him and it looked like something clicked in his head and then he just stopped going for it. Could be shot knees…
It’s a weird division, despite having a lot of talent. It kind of feels like the ugly step child compared to the Light Heavyweight and Welterweight Divisions.
Not to mention of the Top 25…. Almeida, Shields, & Diaz are all natural Welterweights. And Mousasi is now a Light Heavyweight. And Cung Le hasn’t fought in almost 18 months. That;s 1/5th of the Top 25 right there….
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 28, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions
that is false
GSP has made the division look weak but it is a stacked and murderous division.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Having Belfort x Franklin makes about as little sense as Silva(W) x Franklin.
It just doesn’t really do anything for anyone – its almost like a gatekeeper to A. Silva but even if Franklin wins it does little to help his standing at 205. Just let him move up already and stop killing potentially exciting match-ups for Anderson.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Aug 28, 2009 11:56 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
SERIOUSLY
I’m a Franklin fan and have gripes about hows he’s treated. His only career losses are to the #1 p4p, a fighter ranked top 10 at MW AND LHW, and the #1 at LHW. He should be getting fights to build himself as a contender at 205 for sure.
by Austin Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s interesting to note that the men who will be fighting for the Strikeforce interim middleweight title, #22 (#4 welterweight) Jake Shields and #27 Jason “Mayhem” Miller are barely ranked among the top middleweights in the world. Of course Strikeforce champ #20 Cung Le is barely ranked himself.
Interesting, but not too surprising. Cung Le is all but retired essentially, since he’s more interested in hollywood than fighting. He hasn’t fought in well over a year, and hasn’t even defended his title since winning it. And Shields is really a welterweight struggling for competition when all his ideal fights are in the UFC.
How in the name of all things holy is Alessio Sakara at #15? My faith in these rankings has officially been shook…
Shamelessly self-promoting since 1997...
by E. Spencer Kyte on Aug 28, 2009 12:02 PM EDT reply actions
Ditto on Diaz and Shields too. Shields beat Lawler, who shouldnt be ranked, and Diaz only beat Frank Shamrock. They should only be ranked at WW
by Austin Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
both guys fought their last bout at middleweight
and several sites have rules that push them into the last division they fought at AND carry over accomplishments from the previous weight class.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
i'm not saying that the rankings you took from these websites aren't legitimate
but the qualifications are ridiculous
by Austin Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
several sites have leapfrogging provisions
and once Sakara beat Leites he jumped above him in the rankings. Since Leites was top 10 on most lists….
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Vitor, Chael, and Akiyama have all beaten better competition than Robbie Lawler who just lost to a fucking 170lber.
Vitor killed Lindland. Chael beat Philo. Both Lindland and philo were ranked top 3 for a long time.
Robbie lost to a 170lber and most significant win was against fucking Scott Smith.
This is why these rankings are a joke.
i think people underestimate chael because he has a crappy personality
but i think he has a great chance against okami… and akiyama def won the belcher fight, i don’t understand why people thought that was a bad decision
by Austin Martin on Aug 28, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
these rankings = the whole online mma community
you will continue to bitch about them until Zuffa has signed every top fighter and blackballed the rest.
shill is as shill does.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
That’s my point… the mma community (media) is filled with a bunch of retards. if you add 60% garbage with 40% quality you get garbage.
I keep telling you to get 10 people who know what’s going on and you can have the most respected rankings in the industry. you have the damn venue; USA fucking TODAY just not the content.
This is a hole nobody is tapping into and you better do it fast because Zuffa is gobbling everything up…
If you don’t claim this market space soon it will be too late.
The concept of universal rankings is kind of pointless anyways. There should be Zuffa Rankings and everything else.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 28, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
To further my point….
Of the Top 10 guys…. 54 of 70 are signed by Zuffa
Of the Top 25 guys…. 104 of 175 are signed by Zuffa
And those are with rankings that are typically skewed against the UFC in many ways. Fighters ouside of the UFC constantly get ranked higher then they should be. So with all that into consideration, Zuffa still has a lock on the vast majority of talent. And it seems to only be increasing by the day.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 28, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah the mma sites will soon be ranking joey villasenor to the top 10 because they’ll be no one left to make their rankings worth anything. These sites place non-zuffa guys in there top lists to make their rankings relevant. because if their all ZUffa guys who needs geeks in their moms basements telling them who the best is when Joe Rogan can do it.
by mmalogic on Aug 28, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think zuffa would be on board for this.
If there was a separate ranking, eventually people would start thinking that the 2 rankings were equal or equivalent. Then there’d be more whines for co-promotion so we could have #1 vs #1 to see who is truly number 1.
Using LHW for an example, Mousasi is a legitimate fighter and would probably do well in the UFC, but putting him at #1 on a list would give him more credibility than he deserves.
that is horseshit
and I’ve debunked it before.
You’re making a logical fallacy called the appeal to authority.
The problem with so-called experts is two fold —
1) conflicts of interest
anyone with the level of knowledge you’re proposing as a barrier to entry is almost certainly professionally involved in MMA. This means they likely have a deep tangle of relationships and business interests that would give them an incentive to cook their rankings.
2) time
anyone with the level of expertise you’re proposing will likely be busy training, fighting or managing. The people who do the best rankings in my opinion are those who have the most time to watch fights and obsess about making rankings. Its got less to do with talent for appraising horseflesh than the time to put into it.
Therefore, with all rankings basically being a hopeless task, we compile the consensus rankings to reflect the opinion of the community.
Therefore, unlike ALMOST ANY OTHER POSSIBLE RANKINGS SYSTEM it is objective fact rather than subjective opinion.
We’re documenting how fighters are regarded by the MMA fan and pundit community, not who is the best fighter.
Our system is fair, transparent and almost impossible to manipulate.
It’s that last part that really gets under your skin.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
and no matter who was signed up on your mythical list of experts
you’d shit on them unless they were zuffa shills.
Who would be on your panel? Kevin Iole, Greg Jackson, Ricardo Liborio, Brock Lesnar’s coach, Chuck Liddell? Joe Rogan?
How about we get: Big John McCarthy, Matt Hume, Ken Shamrock, Don Frye, Juanito Ibarra, Frank Shamrock, Josh Barnett, Monte Cox, Josh Gross, Matt Lindland, Loretta Hunt, Sam Caplan etc etc?
Then there’s that netherworld of guys who would sometimes be on and sometimes off depending how they’re getting along with Dana: Pat Miletich, Tito Ortiz, John Hackleman…
Clearly the first panel is as qualified as the second and the second is as qualified as the first (all veteran fighters, top trainers, experienced MMA writers) but the criteria you’d like to see is Zuffa loyalists, anything else is a “bunch of retards”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
no you get guys from within the mma media so you have “buy in”… every mma media outlet has 1 or 2 smart guys surrounded by a few idiots..
once the core fan base accepts the rankings as the “authority” then your work is done.
You can even use the compiled data as the starting point but add in this panel as the “filter”.
The bottom line is you need to get this to be THE rankings of the industry soon. If you think your current method is the ideal approach then by all means have at it… we’ll talk in 18 months to see where it goes.
every mma media outlet has 1 or 2 smart guys surrounded by a few idiots..
whats the implication?
by Austin Martin on Aug 28, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
That assumes that we wouldn’t lose USAToday if we changed our methodology.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Aug 28, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
yes big assumption… obviously that takes precedent. But if you know how to make a deal you can make a deal. USA today also wants to be the “Authoritative Source” so its just a matter of putting it together… but again I am also assuming that you would like this to be “the authoritative” source for rankings like Rings is for boxing.
Every sites rankings is a microcosm of this entire compilation. Like I said 1 or 2 guys who know the game and the rest are fanboys who would be posting on bulltein boards if domain names werent 8 bucks.
40% quality plus 60% junk equals junk… Filter the junk out – get it accepted by the majority of the hardcore community and your done. I probably still wont like the rankings but most likely be the best rankings. cream rises to the top.
I believe I'm better acquainted with the politics of the MMA online
world than you are.
And what you propose wouldn’t work for us IMO.
You watch what we do.
Check our traffic.
Check SBNation’s traffic.
We play our own game and we do well.
Check back in 18 months and we’ll see which of our competitors we’ve surpassed and which we’ve absorbed.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I dont doubt it… like I said “cream rises to the top”… This about the only place left for intelligent debate.
but unfortunately the argument wasn’t about traffic…
like Zuffa
we play a game of raw power.
The more traffic, the more influence.
But your argument changed in the middle. originally it was asserting that the rankings were weak because of the sources.
Then you switched to a claim that if we had an “all star” rankings panel, then our rankings would be accepted by the mma world and we would become the de facto rankings source.
We can do the latter without solving the problems with the rankings — there are a couple of areas where there is legit criticism —
1) when fighters jump around in weight class
2) when fighters fight for distinct promotions and have little or no crossover
I don’t know of any ranking systems that solve those criticisms. having a panel wouldn’t stop the bitching.
Ultimately our reach and our partners will determine our influence. I think we’ll continue to do well with both.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
ok both arguments have nothing to do with traffic…
Look at sherdogs traffic… It’s almost 10 times yours and they are partnered with espn… are their rankings the defacto? no.
hardcore acceptance is the key… this is the hole that is waiting to be filled. partners and reach only lend to that.
Ofcourse you will never end the bitching. But you could fill this whole and take up the mantle. All you need is majority acceptance.
But i’ll drop the business angle and simply stick to busting your balls about the content of the rankings in the future after this last suggestion:
Instead of changing the deal with USA today try to improve the quality of the source content…. this way you dont have to change the formula you created and data compilation. Just hand out guidelines or better yet create it with each site so they have buy in and things will slowly improve.
A simple thing of educational emails for ranking guidelines to each player on each site will help. have the players participate in coming up with the guidelines themselves.
Just courtesy emails, im’s, etc… repeated over and over.
so rings magazine should throw their rankings out the window (which everyone follows) and go round up 20 boxing blogs where geeks in their basements spend there time running inbetween watching pro-wrestling because it is OBJECTIVE FACT rather than subjective opinion.
RINGS does their thing
we do ours.
We thought it was interesting and informative.
USA TODAY liked it enough — BECAUSE of the methodology, no other reason — to pick it up as their official MMA rankings.
That’s that.
I note that you didn’t respond to a single substantive point.
Refute my points about conflict of interest and time.
Refute my points about 3 equally qualified panels selected based on their positive/negative/alternating relationships with Zuffa.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
That wouldn’t fit in with his MONTH of astro-turfing, shilling and spinning. It’s really easy to “argue” when you side-step someone’s valid points, make vague assertions and offer zero insight. But I guess that’s why some of us drive Bentleys in Dubai and some don’t.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Aug 28, 2009 5:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
all your points can be refuted by my rings example…
everyone follows rings… guess who owns it? Goldenboy. conflict of interest, negative positive interests, etc… all refuted.
But hey if you say this is the only way it gets publsihed on USA today then fine.
But whats the “asset” then? compiling a bunch of lists? why does USA today need you to compile a bunch of lists. They can pay someone in India 10 bucks to compile the lists.
With a panel you then have an “asset” which you can take to any medium if god forbid something happens with the newspaper relationship.
Stop getting your panties all tied up… Im giving you business advice… if i was trying to manipulate you for Zuffa’s sake like your suggesting It would be more prudent for me to invest my time on sherdogs rankings.
If I wanted to manipulate rankings for PR I would only need to focus on sherdogs…
The point is not to make the rankings more zuffa friendly but THE AUTHORITATIVE SOURCE. if you can get the mma hardcore communitty to buy in then your done… the dividends will pay off for decades.
If you think your current formula is the way then have at it.
thanks for the advice.
But I don’t think you understand — BE is my hobby. I do it because it’s fun. Or at least used to be.
We’ve been successful and that’s fun, but believe it or not we’re not all manipulative calculating types who cynically assume editorial positions to drive traffic.
If I thought it would be fun or interesting to deal with a bunch of MMA people to try to get them to submit rankings in a timely fashion maybe I’d do that.
(But wait that was what Sam Caplan was doing for WAMMA.)
But I don’t think that would be interesting.
The Consensus Rankings are what they are. We like them.
The Rings rankings are totally manipulated and a big part of why boxing is the corrupt disaster that it is.
Not interested in gaming the system for my personal advantage.
I am a fan and a blogger. Period.
I’ll leave the world conquest to you.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Thanks for the advice.
The issue you’re raising is one we’ve grappled with privately. Rest assured we’re always interested in tweaks to the format to produce more meaningful and accurate results. But we also have to make adjustments only after very thoughtful consideration and incrementally.
I’m sure above all others you know these things take time. Hell, we JUST added bantam and featherweights to the mix and they aren’t even on the USAT page real estate yet. We’re just getting started.
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