USAT/SBN August MMA Consensus Rankings: Heavyweight

by Kid Nate on Aug 27, 2009 8:57 PM EDT in Rankings Comment 80 comments

Rank	Fighter	%	Promotion	Last Rank
1	Fedor Emelianenko	100	M-1 Global/Strikeforce	1
2	Brock Lesnar	95	UFC	2
3	Frank Mir	87	UFC	4
4	Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira	85	UFC	5
5	Randy Couture	80	UFC	6
6	Josh Barnett	79	Affliction*	3
7	Shane Carwin	66	UFC	7
8	Andrei Arlovski	62	Strikeforce	9
9	Brett Rogers	62	Strikeforce	8
10	Alistair Overeem	59	Strikeforce/DREAM	10
11	Cain Velasquez	41	UFC	11
12	Fabricio Werdum	34	Strikeforce	14
13	Jeff Monson	34	Free Agent	12
14	Junior dos Santos	31	UFC	13
15	Mirko Filipovic	27	UFC	15
16	Tim Sylvia	23	Adrenaline	16
17	Cheick Kongo	23	UFC	17
18	Gabriel Gonzaga	21	UFC	21
19	Ben Rothwell	20	UFC	18
20	Roy Nelson	19	UFC	19
21	Antonio Silva	18	WVR	22
21	Aleksander Emelianenko	18	ProFC	22
23	Heath Herring	17	UFC	24
24	Paul Buentello	17	UFC	24
25	Marcio Cruz	17	Art of Fighting	26

Rankings compiled by Richard Wade.

It was just announced that #1 Fedor Emelianenko will face #9 Brett Rogers this fall for Strikeforce. Not the dream Fedor vs Lesnar match we were all hoping for, but probably as good as we're going to get.

The UFC has deemed that #2 Brock Lesnar will have to satisfy himself with #7 Shane Carwin at UFC 106.

Either of those fights could go against the favorite, but in all likelihood they won't.

Coming up this weekend at UFC 102, we've got #4 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs #5 Randy Couture with the winner likely in line for a title shot.

At UFC 103 we'll see #14 Junior dos Santos against #15 Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic. The winner of that bout will also be propelled into title contention, but I'll be surprised if they get an immediate title shot.

#11 Cain Velasquez had been rumored to be getting a title elimination match against Carwin at UFC 104, but will instead face #19 Ben Rothwell. This fits the UFC's recent style of putting their top contenders on parallel tracks.

Based on the premise that all MMA rankings are subjective but that it’s still useful and informative to know who the online MMA community as a whole ranks as the best fighters in MMA, we collect and average the rankings of the top MMA websites to produce our consensus rankings. Show more "

We compile the top MMA rankings from each of our sources and award 25 points for a first place ranking, 16 for a 10th place ranking, 1 for a 25th place ranking. A formula is used to "normalize" the data so all fighters are awarded points from those lists that do not include a full 25 fighters. This formula ensures that each ranking site awards the same number of total points regardless of how many fighters they choose to rank. Each fighter’s total is divided by the number of possible points to determine their standing in the Consensus Rankings.

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does the 100% mean he has highest possible rating (all first place votes) or does the best ranked always have 100%?

by David_ on Aug 27, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

All first place votes.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 27, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

100% means he has highest possible rating

Creator of the FightMatrix rating system.

by JCS_FM on Aug 27, 2009 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting that Arlovski leapfrogged Rogers

Creator of the FightMatrix rating system.

by JCS_FM on Aug 27, 2009 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

411 Mania, MMA For Real, MMA News, MMA Ratings and Sports Illustrated all missed the cut last month, but were included this month. 411 Mania and MMA Ratings both ranked Arlovski higher than Rogers with MMA Ratings actually not ranking Rogers at all.

by Richard Wade on Aug 27, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so tell me what’s the point of following not reliable sources? Isn’t it better to make a computer program ‘ala boxrec.com and do something proper actually? I know I repeat myself but this rankings are simply astonishing in it’s moronic super-power

by UniversalSoul on Aug 27, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

they're reliable

the variable is the timing of when they update.
Here’s the deal dude, after spending months compiling all the various rankings, I concluded, they’re all basically moronic. Some are better than others but none is perfect, this is our attempt to contribute something to the discussion by aggregating the opinion of the various leading sites that rank fighters.
clearly you are missing the point.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 27, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're also violating rule #4

don’t piss off the moderators.
we work too hard on this site for no money to have to put up with morons insulting us.
I don’t recall reading your genius rankings anywhere.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 27, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey kid, no offense man but there’s always going to be differences of opinion.

And sometimes, you get called names ‘cause the opposing person can’t start a rebuttal without using a “You Suck” statement against you.

It’s a human failing, I know. :)

by BNTHIS on Aug 28, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The thing is these rankings aren’t the opinion of anyone, they are the answer to a mathematical equation.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 28, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and just like when i'm at home in my house

and some one calls me names I throw them out, if you come to BE and call me names, I’ll throw you out.
I’ll do the same if you call each other names too.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 28, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey it’s cool, man. I’m just saying that people are like that in general.

Don’t hesitate to show them the door if they act up….

by BNTHIS on Aug 28, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh believe me brother

I know how people are! especially MMA fans.
lol

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 28, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its insane that this comes up every month.
Obviously no rankings are perfect but in general I think these are the most complete.
Its interesting that by combining several flawed rankings you get one that is somewhat less flawed.

I dislike Matt Hughes.

by MonkeyCHops on Aug 27, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I suggest putting the whole “we collect and average the rankings of the top MMA websites to produce our consensus rankings.” part before the jump and in bold. It’s probably frustrating that people say “wait..this guy is above/below this guy?! What are you thinking?! RAWBLAGGRAGE” but maybe it’ll get the point across that it’s not the opinion of BE in these rankings.

by Tonley on Aug 27, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Heavyweight Picture is going to look a lot different in 1 year. Probably more so then any other division in the sport. There is a slew of up & coming talent that is really the next big wave of Heavyweights. And most of them are in the UFC. Should be very interesting.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 27, 2009 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Total agreement. I think Brock and Fedor will be at the top – quite possibly swapping 1 and 2 and honestly if Brock takes out Carwin, Cain and another top 10 I will put him there, regardless of whether I think Fedor is better/would beat him – but the rest will be a real big shake up. Or maybe we’ll have been too quick to crown the up and comers as contenders and the old guard will put them in their place, but I doubt it.

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Aug 27, 2009 11:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

How crazy is it that Brock is already #2?

by jrobb20 on Aug 27, 2009 8:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Crazy as in it’s amazing that he’s already the #2 HW in the world or crazy as in you don’t think he should be there?

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 27, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Personally, crazy that he’s already the #2 in the world, but, I was kind of leaving it open to interpretation.

by jrobb20 on Aug 27, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll tell you why. Brock in my opinion is the no1 heavy weight in the world because he fight only with top guys, and beats them. He’s fighting only top opponent’s. If you look at this diagram in his last fights he did beat #3 (Mir), #5 (Couture). If you look at Emelianenko on the other hand, he beat #8 Arlovski and #16 Sylvia in his last 2 fights. No matter what kind of argument you will pull – Brock fought more credible opposition. Couture beat and Gonzaga (who ko’d Cro-Cop) before entering the ring with Lesnar, Mir did beat Nogueira in his last one before Brock. The most important thing is who you fought (and won) in you last fights, not during your lifetime, otherwise Muhammad Ali is no heavyweight in boxing, not W. Klitschko. And it really does not matter if he’s 4 fights or 400 fights, as long as he fights top opposition and beats them convincingly, he’s number one. Period.

by UniversalSoul on Aug 27, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

except when Fedor beat them

Arlovski was #2 and Sylvia was #5 or #6 I believe.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 27, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup...

Timmeh was #5 and AA was #2.

by Tonley on Aug 27, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not to mention the fact that Couture

wasn’t even active in the heavyweight division when he got the shot against Sylvia. So if beating Sylvia doesn’t mean anything, Couture is left with beating Gonzaga.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 27, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like AO

by Riney on Aug 28, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Arlovski does not have a contract with Strikeforce, he is a free agent.

by Lynchman on Aug 27, 2009 8:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In my consensus rankings Brock is #1. I prefer a fighting champion.

A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who

by thetakeover on Aug 27, 2009 8:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs

How is he not fighting. He was supposed top fight on the 1st.

by Meshuggeth on Aug 27, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it’s hard for you to have consensus rankings.

Unless you are schizophrenic, if that’s the case I apologize.

by Phildo on Aug 27, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The voices in his head reached a consensus:
1. Brock Lesnar
2. The neighbor’s dog is telling me to kill people
3. Brock Lesnar

by who me on Aug 27, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

Lolz

by rainmaker6 on Aug 27, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i always thought it was burn stuff down, not kill??

Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit.

by mma is #1 on Aug 27, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Our neighbors might have different dogs.

I dislike Matt Hughes.

by MonkeyCHops on Aug 28, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This rankings are strange to be honest. Definitely Arlovski above Rogers is a mockery. Rogers ktfo’d Arlovski in his L-A-S-T fight. Iti’s not something from the long time ago! It’s like in boxing they’d put Tyson above Lewis, right after Lewis knocked the crap of him. Nonsense. I fully understand that it’s just a mix of 20 different mma media ranks – but it only tells how ridiculous are the people writing in there.

It’s the same situation with Dos Santos and Werdum. We all know that Dos Santos annihilated Werdum in UFC a few months ago and Werdum has aboslutely no notable wins after that + Dos Santos has no losses. So where is the point of all that? Let’s better figure out a computer program to do the ranks – it works much better and it doesn’t do such a stupid mistakes. Like boxrec.com in boxing for example.

I know the argument, that figther A who lost to fighter B can be above him, but this situations happen usually after fitghter A wins at least one good fight after that, with more credible opponent or/and fighter B loses to someone after his win over fither A. Other than that these types of situations simply don’t happen.

And an argument about overall career achievments is nonsense, unless this are “all time” ranks, not actual present situation. After Holmes beat Ali, Ali wasn’t number one anymore! He was way down the list. Which did not change the fact that in “all time” ranks, where we look at all their careers, Ali is head and shoulders above Holmes.

by UniversalSoul on Aug 27, 2009 8:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

sounds like your argument is really with the sites that are doing the rankings instead of the one compiling them.
totally shooting the messenger imo

by Reeferbot on Aug 27, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have an idea-purchase a domain name, design your own website, and make your own rankings so a bunch of idiots can come and criticize you.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 27, 2009 10:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs

that's just the ticket!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 27, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think http://www.upyourskidnate.com is available.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 27, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not for long, hehe

by David_ on Aug 28, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What? Where's Ricco Rodriguez?

I would have thought for sure he’d be in some serious top 40 talks considering he was in discussions for the next shot at Fedor…. (major sarcasm)

Excellent work as always Richard, brilliantly flawed in how other sites rank these guys… but your work is excellent.

He was like 'You hit like a bitch.' I'm like all right. And I stood up and slapped him. I go 'Now you just got hit like one.'" - Kurt Pellegrino.

by Gunslinger20 on Aug 27, 2009 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thank you.

by Richard Wade on Aug 27, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done"

by UniversalSoul on Aug 27, 2009 9:10 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

So why did you write that comment

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 27, 2009 10:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

how?

They really need someone to change how they rank fighter. How is Andrei Arlovski even in the top 10. The highest he should be is 17th under Tim Sylvia. This list is crazy was someone smoking crack?

by mmapunk on Aug 27, 2009 9:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

do you understand what we do here?

I’m so tired of explaining how the consensus rankings work.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 27, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Somehow, I don't think the word "consenus" is registering with the critics...

Apparently, Google is NOT their friend….

Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "

by duck on Aug 27, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

apparently there isn’t a consenses as how to spell consenus.

= P

by rainmaker6 on Aug 27, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is your only post on the site so far? Seriously if you were only going to post once shouldn’t you at least take 30 seconds to read the whole article before putting your foot in your mouth?

by who me on Aug 27, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now we can watch as Carwin and Rogers get pulled towards the top without fighting by being scheduled to fight the top.

I dislike Matt Hughes.

by MonkeyCHops on Aug 27, 2009 9:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

They have to move up by attrition.

Unless something very strange happens, one or both of them will pas the loser of Couture v Nog and they both should go past josh barnett.

by Phildo on Aug 27, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t see why they would jump Barnett. Even if some sites had a policy to drop suspended fighters, Bernett was just denied a licence, he can apply at any other commission at any time, maybe even California.

by David_ on Aug 28, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Technicality.

If a site has a rule that they don’t rank suspended fighters, they should drop barnett; He failed a drug test, he should be out.

by Phildo on Aug 28, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is prevented from applying for a licence in California for the length of a steroid suspension I believe.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 28, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rogers will be #2 by the time the Fedor fight happens…Carwin will stay in the same place up to the Lesnar fight…(over-exaggeration on #2 but non-UFC guys get over-inflated especially ones about to fight Fedor)

by Reaser16 on Aug 27, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rogers won’t be top 5 the moment he steps in the cage. I’m willing to bet on that.

by David_ on Aug 28, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

for future reference everyone

when you call the rankings “stupid” and “moronic” you’re insulting the staff and will be banned.
violating rules #1 and #4 — don’t insult people and don’t piss off the moderators.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 27, 2009 9:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"Don't insult people"

You mean like this:

“we work too hard on this site for no money to have to put up with morons insulting us.
I don’t recall reading your genius rankings anywhere.”

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 27, 2009 10:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

yeah but it's usually done with less wit and flair

there’s a double standard here, let’s not kid ourselves. I try to play nice but this gets soooo old.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 27, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL, I don’t blame you Nate.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 27, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be honest perhaps you should just turn off the comments on the rankings post. It never fails some dude who just fell off the turnip truck bumbles in and starts going off on the rankings because he doesn’t know what “consensus” means. As much work as goes into the rankings you shouldn’t have to also deal with people who even after a year of constant explanation as to what these rankings are still doesn’t get it and wants to grouch.

by who me on Aug 27, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure most of these guys are new to BE

and I think we usually end up answering some good questions.
discussion is what BE is all about, even when it is tiresome.
what i may do is stop reading the comments myself.
lol

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 27, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rankings can lead to real interesting discussions it’s just there always seems to be a couple of guys who don’t get it. You would think the fact that the methodology and process is included in every ratings post would make it obvious to even the newest member but for some reason “consensus” is just beyond them. I guess it just goes with the subject but it is a pain in the butt.

by who me on Aug 28, 2009 8:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

I think that these rankings are done perfectly....

It is the other sites who you use that sparks my interest; that’s what i want to talk about.

I guess you guys (esp nate and rich) need to understand if someone is questioning these rankings it doesnt relfect on the work you guys do; but the way other sites rank fighters…

for example : cage potato …. there rankings are fedor > barnet > brock > MIR > big nog > overeem > randy > carwin > monsoon > rodgers…..WTF?

by Beren on Aug 27, 2009 11:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think the mods understand this

but they still feel a need to respond to the morons who don’t.

by rainmaker6 on Aug 27, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But still, when someone doesn’t take the time to understand what it is they are reading it gets annoying.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 27, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually I would generally agree with those rankings apart from Overeem.

Barnett was No.2 for awhile. He just got bumped down because of the steroids thing. Not due to actual fighting.

by rainmaker6 on Aug 27, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

him getting up to being ranked No.2 was also not due to actual fighting…

by Reaser16 on Aug 27, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

people not knowing what consensus means is only slightly less annoying than people now knowing what lineal means…

by Reaser16 on Aug 27, 2009 11:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What happens if the Grim...

…brutally destroys Fedor, takes his Chapter 11 Bankruptcy powers, and Eats Fedor’s soul?

by BNTHIS on Aug 28, 2009 12:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I assume he would then be ranked #4 right behind Jesus, Zombie Michael Jackson and something else thats unlikely to exist.

I dislike Matt Hughes.

by MonkeyCHops on Aug 28, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and something else thats unlikely to exist.

UFC HW champ Fedor Emelianenko?

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 28, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You mean a NON-Corrupt Politician?

by BNTHIS on Aug 28, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cain is fighting Rothwell? big ben got owned by glass jaw arlovski if i recall, i guess cains fight with kongo has lowered his status somewhat

by pandaboy99 on Aug 28, 2009 1:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Why are most people still ranking barnett?

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 28, 2009 5:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In short: It’s way easier that way (and I’m guilty of that action)

PS Hooray for the tables. I can now laugh at every site that still has Barnett above Lesnar.

by greco-roman airlines on Aug 28, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

411 mania, cagepotato, tagg radio, inside mma and mmanews

they all should be ashamed of themselves..

the guy tests positive for steroids and not only did they still rank him, but they’re ranking him over Lesnar, Mir, Noguiera and others who are way more deserving…

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 28, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs