Bloody Elbow: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: RSL Soapbox for Real Salt Lake Fans!

UFC 102 Preview - Randy Couture vs. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira: A Study in Athletic Decline

102

When we did our staff picks for UFC 97 I got a little flack from colleagues and readers for talking about athletic decline in fighters regarding the Liddell/Shogun Rua fight.  I was extremely confident by looking at Chuck's recent performances that he was in the final stages of his career.  I've spoken a little bit more about the theory of athletic decline when talking about the upcoming Randy Couture/Minotauro Nogueira fight at UFC 102 and I'm starting to realize that it is a concept that may not fully be understood in the MMA community.

I've been following combat sports since I was a very young boxing fan and I've seen many a fighter hit the point in their career where they are unable to handle all but those fighters who reside comfortably below them in their sport's hierarchy.  With Liddell I saw his hand speed change, his footwork looked sluggish...etc.  It isn't that he got knocked out against Rashad and Rampage, it was that he didn't seem able to fight with his normal style and put himself back into a solid defensive position as he executed his gameplan.

Trying to determine where a fighter is at when looking at the end of their career can be tricky.  It's a lot like looking at an NFL wide receiver.  You're not necessarily looking to see if he is still able to catch passes, you're looking at the small things like explosiveness off the snap and the ability to create separation from a defender within the first three yards.  With fighters it's harder than with "major sports athletes" as we get to see them in a competitive environment far less often.  The other part of the equation is the style that they use and how hard it is for them to succeed in that style once skill levels begin to erode.

Looking at a guy like Randy Couture I can see that, yes, athletically he isn't quite where he was when he emerged as a born again superstar in defeating Liddell and Tito Ortiz.  But I also see a guy who was able to wrestle with Brock Lesnar somewhat successfully and looked very solid against Gabriel Gonzaga and Tim Sylvia.  Randy benefits from a style where if he loses some footwork it should only delay his ability to get inside and work his clinch game.  The grinding, dirty boxing style of Randy can survive longer than a wild, wide swinging style of a guy like Chuck or Wanderlei Silva because it relies on technique over natural gifts (punching speed..etc) that erode with time.  As long as Randy is doing whatever he is doing to remain strong enough to work the inside game he will probably remain effective and I see no proof that he has hit a point in athletic decline to where he can't work HIS style.  Could Randy be successful fighting like Machida?  Probably not.  But Randy Couture can still be successful fighting like Randy Couture.

Nogueira on the other hand looks like a guy who is athletically shot.  Since coming to the UFC he has looked like a guy who wants to use boxing techniques but his footwork is shoddy, his hands look slow and inaccurate and he doesn't seem to have enough explosiveness left to get the fight to the floor reliably.  When you add in that he has fought a style that includes taking a lot of damage en route to wins, it isn't a formula for long-term success.  Fighters who take a lot of punishment over their careers tend to fade earlier.  I do believe that something was wrong with Nogueira when he fought Mir, but I don't think that he is a ton better than he looked in that fight at this stage in his career.

Trying to predict what is going to happen in this fight depends entirely on your ability to interpret what you've seen from the fighters in their last few times in the cage.  Me personally, I feel very comfortable looking at these two legends and saying that Randy Couture is going to be much more effective in working his game.  No matter the outcome this is a conversation that will have to be revisited after we get more data on Saturday night.

2 recs  |  Comment 17 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Hormone replacement therapy by decision.

Keep firing Assholes!

ZE GOGGLES! ZAY DO NOZING!!!!

by Ubernoober on Aug 26, 2009 12:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

your comment pisses me off.

by shuhite on Aug 26, 2009 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Could Randy be successful fighting like Machida? Probably not. But Randy Couture can still be successful fighting like Randy Couture.

But the real question is, could Randy Couture be succesful fighting like Randy Couture against Machida?

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 26, 2009 1:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I’m seeing a repeat of the Ortiz fight except it would end with a violent K.O. by Machida.

"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn

by Day Man on Aug 26, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a chance.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Aug 26, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big Nog’s style of “getting punched in the face until you submit him or run out of time” isn’t the healthiest tactic.

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Aug 26, 2009 1:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You know, I thought his boxing looked alright against Herring aside from when he got cracked. He wasn’t able to do much against Tim but survive untill he got that nice sweep. Everyone knew he was just waiting to find his opporitunity. He only truly looked aweful against Mir. I’m sure the infection he had was a factor but the most significant factor was that a Frank was bigger, quicker, and more agile. He also anticipated Nog’s moves/ striking and had stiff counters ready. I take your point that Nog’s game (to be effective) requires a lot of agility and quickness that he no longer posses in abundance but I think we’ll see a much better and quicker Nog than the last outing . Still wont be enough to get the Natural but i think he will show that he’s got a few good years left. If he gets KO’d in the 1st then I’ll eat my words.

by naturalist on Aug 26, 2009 1:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There it is. Nog isn’t gonna win this one and this is the most lucid explanation why that ive seen.

by judonerd on Aug 26, 2009 1:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think I smell a huge payday for the gamblers betting on Nog.

by BSurely on Aug 26, 2009 1:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nog has always been one of my favorite fighters, his wars with Fedor were legendary. I can’t believe people are calling Nog washed up already and the fight has not even started. I discount the Mir loss becuase he had that infection. If it is true that Nog has been getting Ko’ed in training sessions for this fight, I would imagine that this is his last fight ever. Very sad if true.

Randy on the other hand, seems like he is like fine wine, he gets better with age. I want to see Randy fighting at least till he is 50

by Bandaka on Aug 26, 2009 1:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The bright side for Nogueira (as compared with Chuck), is he doesn’t have to win standing. He can get a submission. I just don’t see him submitting Randy in 5 minute rounds in 2009, but he could certainly pull a triangle on bottom, he has the ability to do it.

One thing I’ve noticed is Nog’s hands have become…less accurate. He seems to miss a lot more often than before, though that’s just a casual observation.

Nog absolutely has to win this fight standing to have a chance, because if Randy is lighting him up when they box Nog is not going to be able to take it to the ground, and Randy will just keep it up.

by Michael Rome on Aug 26, 2009 2:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Brent, everytime you write it’s like a treat. I agree with everything you said, and it’s a very level headed look at things. Bravo.

"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate

by kyfm621 on Aug 26, 2009 2:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Fortunately for Randy and Nog

they benefit from fighting in a division that does not generally have a pressing requirement on speed. In the lower weight-classes, a drop in hand speed often leads to shorter careers. This has often been seen in boxing as well, I believe.

The follow-up question might be who is the next fighter or fighters that will show a rapid decline in abilities. We’ve all been waiting around for Hughes to really hit the wall, if he hasn’t already. As a big fan of Vitor, I’ve been wondering whether his reliance on speed may cost him as he ages. What will we look for from Anderson Silva as cues to his eventual decline as well?

by rzor on Aug 26, 2009 9:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I’m pretty sure that Hughes is done as a top-level welterweight; though he could hang around for a few more years fighting other older big names or young up and comers, he doesn’t seem interested in fighting if he’s not going to get a shot at the championship. Which, actually, is unlike Randy who has to know that he’s a long shot to be able to fight for the strap again but looks to be taking some “super fights” instead.

Vitor looks better at 185 than he has in years at 205; I hate the thought of him going back up because I think he finally found his optimum weight class.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 26, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Randy wants money, Hughes’ chose to get a tractor for his time coaching TUF. One lives in Vegas, the other lives somewhere in the country.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 26, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

With the exception of one takedown (half-guard pull to sweep) on Sylvia, Nog has looked like day-old crap in every performance in the UFC. I’m a huge fan but I get nervous watching him now.

by judonerd on Aug 26, 2009 11:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken
Start posting on Bloody Elbow »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Weoweoweodotdeviantartdotcom_by_weoweoweo_small
TUF 10 Contestant, Darrill Schoonover to Return to Active Army Duty
Tracy_lee_martin_mcneil_small
UPDATE: It's (99%) on: Machida / Rua II on May 1st
Small
The REAL Controversy at UFC 106
Mirkneebaraim640_small
Georges St Pierre vs. Dan Hardy to Headline UFC 109 in February?
Nav-logo-hover_small
UFC 106: Pros Pick Forrest Griffin and Tito Ortiz fights

Recent FanPosts

Small
Why do people think UFC has the best Heavyweights?
Just_tiger_small
Kim Couture (10K) top earner at Strikeforce Challengers V
Just_tiger_small
Josh Burkman KO's Brandon Melendez at Throwdown Showdown V
Headkick-lg_small
Judging Change: Reward Flashy Fightres?
Alvarezavatar_small
Update On SRC x DREAM NYE Event
Small
Fantasy match-making in the UFC Light HW Division
Small
Mixed Martial in South Asia

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

MMA Rankings

USA Today / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings