Did the WEC Postpone WEC 43 Because of Versus' Dispute With DirecTV?

by Luke Thomas on Aug 25, 2009 10:27 AM EDT in News Comment 51 comments

Wec_logo_medium Dave Meltzer is suspicious:

Dave Meltzer: "I think that what happened is is that they that they don’t want to do that show on September 2nd if DirecTV pulls them on September 1st. So, they’re giving them so they’re pulling the show so they have, because it makes no sense for WEC, you know, I … it’s how I read it. I mean maybe Ben Henderson really is hurt, but the thing that’s really strange me to is it’s like if he really was hurt, they would just put, why don’t they just do the match on the next show? I mean, they’ve never postponed an actual show over someone being injured, they always have a replacement."

...

Dave Meltzer: "No, I don’t either. Plus, it’s September 2nd and September 1st is when at this point they may go off DirecTV so you know that seems to add up and plus the other one is is that there, the show isn’t going to be in Youngstown when they do the remake of the show on October the 10th, so to me that also seems to indicate that they sold no tickets in Youngstown plus the Versus thing, so I’m thinking there’s both of those things, I mean I don’t know what the advance was in Youngstown, no one ever told me. And the fact that no one ever told me, probably means it was poor or wasn’t great, if it was great I would have heard."

Can you blame them? The bottomline is either the WEC needs all of the support from the UFC machine or it needs less fragile relationships and partners. This is not a long term recipe for success.

UPDATE by Kid Nate: Jordan Breen has several tweets on the topic:

- Low brand power = Merge, Zuffa.

Pros: Purse parity, greater starpower, all divisions benefit from UFC tag. Cons: Don't get to rub elbows with bullriding on Versus.

It's circular. They can't carry PPVs because they aren't UFC fighters. Only UFC branding and recognition allows fighters to draw.

Tiny jockey sized fighting sells just fine. Ask Oscar, Floyd, Manny, or Ray. It's about Zuffa's marketing juice, nothing more or less

And Steve Cofield adds a new angle to the conspiracy theory, same day weigh ins:

The Ohio Athletic Commission has done a nice job of hosting some big MMA events in the past, but the news that WEC 43 would be administered under a different set of weigh-in rules was a bit troubling. It also reeked of disorganization. Dann Stupp from MMA Junkie reported:

Unlike some regulatory bodies, the Ohio commission does two sets of weigh-ins – one on the eve of the show, and one on the day of the event – and fighters (in all weight classes) can't gain more than 13 pounds between the two times.

...
The reason listed for the WEC 43 cancellation was an injury to main event fighter Ben Henderson. That's pretty unusual for a Zuffa event to be scrapped on the basis of one fighter going down. Seems like there's more to the story.

0 recs | Comment 51 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

When I heard it was in Youngstown I thought “what the hell is in youngstown?” It sounds like a world of things spelled the end of this show, but there first mistake was putting it in youngstown unless there is a huge fight culture that I am unaware of in Youngstown. The Directv thing is stupid BS that will get settled, but if they drop it for a while and miss a WEC event or two, then that hurts big. Injury could have been the out they were looking for.

by szucconi on Aug 25, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Direct TV thing probably will get settled, but it wouldn’t be totally shocking if Vs was off Direct TV for a day or two, or that it will be settled (or an extension agreed upon) on Aug 31. Either one of those situations would be bad news for WEC.

They don’t have many shows, so losing (or the risk of losing) that much exposure is a big deal, and leaving something like that to the week before won’t be good.

by Phildo on Aug 25, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree. Most likely they will settle the dispute, but it is not uncommon to see a station off the air for a few weeks.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 25, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Youngstown is a big boxing town. Kelly Pavlik is from there and so is former champ Ray “Boom Boom” Mancini. Plus it’s relatively close to Pittsburgh, so I think they were hoping to draw people from all around the area. Didn’t seem to be working.

Twitter.com/mmagroundnpound
www.mmagroundnpound.com

by bigtim on Aug 25, 2009 10:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

@jordanbreen just posted a retweet of this article with the addition of “Low brand power = Merge, Zuffa.” Now I get this advantage of a merge, but I don’t see it having an overall gain. Anyone else have an opinion?

by szucconi on Aug 25, 2009 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

more shows, higher salary for the fighters that get in, more interesting fights

and better sales..

The lower level lightweights in the WEC will probably get cut..

but as a fan.. why not? the positives weigh more than the negatives..

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 25, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe, but I prefer a great free show. the negative I could think of are
- It adds to the list of fighters that have to get on cards in the UFC, not an easy task.
- It might add more shows to the UFC line up, but they won’t stand out in any way.
- The lighter weights are not established enough to carry a card, yet. LWs are only now starting to headline big cards.
- The WEC fighters that stay on will get paid more. Thats a positive for the fighters, but a negative for the company when they won’t be drawing in fans like the TUF house guys can.
- It adds titles that the UFC can promote, but those are fights that need heavy support if the merge happens soon.
We are talking about folding a meaningful org because of one event hiccup. They hold two #1 ranked fighters in there div and they can’t out live a postponement? Folding them into the UFC is fine, but an investment in the long term of the FW and BW div along with the yet unknown FlyW div. I always thought that the WEC was so that Zuffa could make a small investment and let the lighter weights develop. I don’t think that work is complete.The time is not right.

by szucconi on Aug 25, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

- It adds to the list of fighters that have to get on cards in the UFC, not an easy task.

There could be more shows, not an easy task, but very possible.. Especially if they get a new TV deal…

- It might add more shows to the UFC line up, but they won’t stand out in any way. – The lighter weights are not established enough to carry a card,

Miguel Torres, Brian Bowles, Urijah Faber, and Mike Brown, beg to differ… Cerrone, Henderson, and others could co-headline PPVs or even headline fight nights.. You are underestimating how easy it is to market a UFC title fight..

-but a negative for the company when they won’t be drawing in fans like the TUF house guys can.

TUF guys drawing more than the small guys is irrelevant.. WEC guys still surely draw more than what they’re drawing right now.. plus future TUF seasons could be at LW, FW and BW too, so that won’t be a problem, especially in the long run..

- It adds titles that the UFC can promote, but those are fights that need heavy support if the merge happens soon.

again, you are underestimating the marketing arm of the UFC.. it’s now a UFC title, and people, including casuals will care a lottttttttttt more since it is now from the UFC brand.. Remember how all the WEC guys get pissed off when casuals ask them when will they go to the UFC?

-because of one event hiccup

it’s not just cause of one event.. it’s because of all those positives that could happen too.. as you said, they have the #1 ranked fighters in BW and FW.. that would be easy to market..

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 25, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am skeptical. I don’t think its the right move. I think it will be the right move, but the WEC is doing fine and its good to be diversified.

by szucconi on Aug 25, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cerrone, Henderson, and others could co-headline PPVs or even headline fight nights.

I’m fully in favor of a WEC merger but to think that Cerrone/Henderson could co-headline a PPV or even headline an Ultimate Fight Night right now is kind of laughable. I like Cerrone but this was going to be the weakest WEC main-event in quite a long time, and if it was in the UFC and wasn’t for a title it’d be lucky to make the main card on an average PPV.

Otherwise I generally agree with you.

by Chromium on Aug 25, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

have you seen the Fight Night Headliners recently?

guillard? ..really?

At least they can market this guy as a WEC champion, much like what they did for condit.. and also, when you have a PPV with a headliner like Brock vs Randy Couture or something as big, the undercard doesn’t need to be that great..

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 25, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

David’s quotation is some of the worst English I have ever read.

The WEC needs to merge with the UFC. Admittedly, it would add more fighters to the UFC’s already full fighter stable, but I think the speed and excitement lower weight classes bring to the table will greatly help UFC’s fight cards that seem to be full of a lot of LNP as of late. Plus the WEC’s fighters will get more exposure and better pay out of a deal. I honestly see the possible merger as a win-win.

by Screwface on Aug 25, 2009 10:13 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

It’s from his radio show. It’s the way he talks. It’s hard to rea, but not that hard to listen to if you have the audio.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 25, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

cofield thinks that Same day weigh-ins might have ruined it:

Unlike some regulatory bodies, the Ohio commission does two sets of weigh-ins – one on the eve of the show, and one on the day of the event – and fighters (in all weight classes) can’t gain more than 13 pounds between the two times.

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 25, 2009 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

grr

was just about to post that. You’re too fast Weo :P

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cagewriter/post/Did-same-day-weigh-ins-contribute-to-WEC-cancell?urn=mma,184972

by mythbuster on Aug 25, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well nick thomas seems to be absent lately.. he gets to the news faster than anyone else… ;)

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 25, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

from cofield:

Huh? Where was this for the four UFC events in Ohio? Oh, it was waived. Why did that happen? It’s the same company, Zuffa overseeing both promotions. I understand the basic idea behind the dual weigh-ins but the precedent has been set and you can’t hold one promotion to a set of standards that others don’t have to adhere to. Plus it makes little sense with fighters who are 135-155 pounds. The bigger worry comes with the 170, 185 and 205 weight classes.
.
Fighters should have to endure the rigors of cutting weight once. If they want to blow up in the 24 hours before the fight, that’s their choice.

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 25, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the best thing for the WEC would be to get off Versus altogether and get on Spike.

by agentsmith on Aug 25, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You think WEC can pull in the ratings needed to get on spike?

by mythbuster on Aug 25, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Zuffa puts its marketing machine behind it full-tilt, then yes.

The UFC Fight Night cards don’t typically feature big-name fights, but they do just fine on Spike. I don’t see why the WEC couldn’t too.

by agentsmith on Aug 25, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the UFC and WEC merged their rosters

we could easily have fight nights every week or two. 52 weeks * 8 fighters is only 416 total fighters needed, so if you factor in guys fighting 3 times a year that number comes down to about 140 fighters needed. If you did every two weeks it would be even less fighters need.

MORE FREE MMA

by amadeus on Aug 25, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am all about that, but the logistics of that don’t work out.

by szucconi on Aug 25, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Free MMA makes myth a happy buster.

I would worry about the saturation effect tho. With a fight card every week, how fast until people get tired of it?

I do agree that merged rosters would help WEC.

by mythbuster on Aug 25, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i thought of the saturation effect

i decided i’d rather have a thursday fight night like every 2 weeks. That way i could see all the smaller fighters coming up and the big names would get the PPV

I’m worried what the LW merge could do to the WECs lightweights tho

by amadeus on Aug 25, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the WEC roster isn't that big enough that the UFC will have to put weekly cards anyway..

most LW will get dropped. so it’s just the top LW’s, FW and BW guys that are coming.. It would mean more shows, but weekly? not even close..

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 25, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Help the WEC fighters, yes. But it can’t help the WEC because the WEC will no longer be in existence.

by szucconi on Aug 25, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we could easily have fight nights every week or two

But in the real world, SpikeTV has limited resources. They have already turned down live broadcasts of numerous PPV events for budgetary reasons. What makes you think they can find the money to pay Zuffa for an additional 25-30 events per year?

by Steve4192 on Aug 25, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What makes you think they can find the money to pay Zuffa for an additional 25-30 events per year?

The fact that the WWE has been doing in for 20 years.

However, i think Zuffa knows that it would be dumb to merge right now. The UFC and WEC both outperform SF, or at least the WEC has the potential to, so why would they merge 2 market contenders that aren’t competitive to each other into one, when they can outdraw and kill all competitors?

by amadeus on Aug 25, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Zuffa puts its marketing machine behind it full-tilt, then yes.

Maybe, but I’m not sold on that. Historically the smaller fighters get much less interest than the bigger ones. It could be different in MMA, but in boxing the fans usually want to see the big guys bang it out.

by mythbuster on Aug 25, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not hardcore boxing fan by any means, but haven’t the 140-147 pound classes been huge in boxing forever?

http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com

by Beer Monster on Aug 25, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe among the hardcores

but the casual fans tune in for the big boys.

Everyone knows who Tyson, Foreman, Lennox, Holyfield, etc. are. Not sure many casuals know who the champions of other weight classes have been.

by mythbuster on Aug 25, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like DLH, Mayweather, Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, etc?

http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com

by Beer Monster on Aug 25, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look how far you had to go back. There are exceptions, of course.

by mythbuster on Aug 25, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You used the work “historically” and I used the word “forever”. Hence the older comparisons. I could have come up with a lot more. My point is that while HW is undeniably the most popular division in boxing (when it’s good), some of the lighter weights do get a ton of mainstream exposure.

http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com

by Beer Monster on Aug 25, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll agree with that :)

by mythbuster on Aug 25, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pacquiao

The end.. thank you. have a nice day.

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 25, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

shake n' bake

magic man and el diablo.. spanish for fighting chicken

by amadeus on Aug 25, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ask the average person who Pacquiao is. Take a camera to get all the confused expressions.

By the way, I’m talking about in the US. Dunno what it’s like in other countries.

by mythbuster on Aug 25, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn’t De La Hoya/Mayweather the highest grossing PPV of all time?

by Zack Gobie on Aug 25, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

After a quick google search, it seems to be.

by mythbuster on Aug 25, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

same thing when you ask the average person about MMA...

but the fact is were talking about PPV numbers in the US, and drawing power right? well Pacquiao is the smallest guy that draws a lotttttt..

and there’s also de la hoya, mayweather, and the other they mentioned..

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 25, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

but the fact is were talking about PPV numbers in the US

Actually we’re not, we’re talking about how it would do in free tv. See above.

You think WEC can pull in the ratings needed to get on spike?

Not sure anyone in the WEC comes close to the names you mentioned, and even if they did they wouldn’t pull in the casual audience needed for free tv week after week. See above for saturation effect.

And I would bet more people know Chuck Liddels or Brock Lesnars name than do Pacquiao.

by mythbuster on Aug 25, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if a card was headlined by UFC draws, like BJ Penn and Co headlined by Urijah or Torres,

i think it would still sell..

then the WEC guys will be UFC champs… after sometime they’ll get more exposure by co headlining, then they’ll be big enough draws to headline a card..

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 25, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if we increase the exposure enough for all the fighters

we won’t need to worry about name recognition for headlining… people would remember the faces or have heard the name for most of the guys. A card wouldnt need to have 1 huge fight to support 3 smaller fights, all the fights would have relatively equal drawing power

by amadeus on Aug 25, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

PLUS

we could have regular unleashed episodes with WEC fighters as well, i could watch Aldo kneeing Cub and Demacio K’ingTKO of Marcos Galvao DAILY

by amadeus on Aug 25, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As mentioned Youngstown is a big fight town, but this was just done poorly all around. The biggest thing is of course the DirectTV deal. Secondly, there wasn’t the type of ad campaign for WEC in Youngstown needed. Also, schools are starting back up and so forth and this was set for the middle of the week. No offense, but it’s harder to travel for a show on a Wednesday than a Sunday.

Overall, yeah, just a perfect storm of bad decisions and poor luck.

by ACCBiggz on Aug 25, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Postponement of WEC Event

The dispute with VS and Direct TV does play a factor in this, but for the most part, they didn’t sell enough tickets for this event so they changed the venue.

by Fairtex,AZ on Aug 25, 2009 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I completely agree with jordan breen..

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Aug 25, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I honestly don’t care why it was cancelled, whatever the excuse it’s bullshit and something I would expect from a lesser org not one tied to Zuffa. To me this is inexcusable to cancel a show with a week before it happened reeks of Affliction type behaviour and something that I would bash them all day for.

Henderson isn’t important enough to cancel a show about Cowboy is the draw for that fight you’re telling me that Castillo wouldn’t want a shot at the interim LW title?. The WEC needs to get their act together, you won’t find a bigger fan of the org than me but this better be a one time exception because if not them i’m done with them.

People need to stop with the WEC/UFC merge talk it makes no sense the UFC already has too many fighters and enough weight divisions the idea that they would add 2 more is ridiculous and makes no sense. The WEC needs to stand on it’s own and it’s been doing a great job with the exception of this show, whatever is going on let’s hope for their sake that Oct. 10’th this goes off because if not the lightweight fighters might be fucked.

by Raker on Aug 25, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It makes more sense to do it, than not to.

WEC’s fighters are grossly underpaid, they have hit the ceiling on general public exposure, and it would bring more excitement to the UFC.

I suppose Strikeforce has way too many weight classes too?

Additionally, there are many fighters in the UFC that I believe would drop weight to fight at featherweight rather than lightweight. If the UFC can obtain an agreement with ESPN/ABC it opens the door to have either a weekly series or entirely free ‘PPV’ broadcasts.

Unless you are 100% against the progression of WEC’s fighters to better pay and more exposure, I don’t see how you can say a merger is a bad thing or that it shouldn’t be done.

by Screwface on Aug 25, 2009 7:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Simple guys in the WEC are being paid what they deserve the idea that these guys are underpaid when they’re lucky to be making as much as they are thanks to the WEC just shows how wrongheaded this argument is. The UFC has too many fighters and more than enough weight classes and events adding 2 more weightclasses is overkill on all counts. As long as The WEC gets it’s shit together, they will continue to grow and make more money and everything will be fine in the longterm which is why Zuffa has been as successful as they’ve been they don’t think short term like other orgs have and failed.

by Raker on Aug 26, 2009 4:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs