is Amateur Wrestling Doomed?
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 10:51 AM EDT
43 comments
An interesting article in the Columbus Dispatch highlights one of the possible victims of MMA's popularity - amateur wrestling.
As MMA gets more popular, and payouts get larger, less people are choosing amateur wrestling as a career and foregoing the Olympics for the Octagon. With wrestling being perhaps the easiest skill to transition to MMA, it seems inevitable that athletes would choose to make the transition.
"People doing MMA now didn't have the dream of being a UFC champion" as a kid, said former Ohio State national champion Tommy Rowlands, who works in the MMA industry but doesn't fight. "That's where wrestling is really going to take a hit if we don't do something. (Today's) kids are going to become adults and then they are going to say, 'Forget the Olympics. I want to be a UFC champion.' "
The temptation is everywhere:
"I might take a fight right after worlds," [member of the US wrestling team, Shawn Bunch] said. "You could do both, but it takes a lot of time. It's very tempting. I've got a lot of friends in (MMA). They try to (persuade me), flashing their money."
In response, USA wrestling has chosen to sweeten the amateur wrestling pot a bit, offering $250,000 for a gold in 2012, $50,000 for silver and $25,000 for bronze. But, as Tommy Rowlands points out, the promise of fame and wealth in MMA may be too much for some.
"You could make $18,000 in your first MMA fight ... and be a star," Rowlands said. "The only way you become a star in wrestling is if you win the Olympic gold medal."
I think amateur wrestling will survive, but it will definitely take a hit as wrestlers who aren't top level will see no reason to avoid MMA. The trickle down effect, while not devastating, may very well hurt the sport as people choose fighting over competing, mentoring, training others. Time will tell, but I wonder if some of these guys aren't shooting the hand that fed them a little.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
1 recs |
43 comments
Email
Print
Comments
They are forgetting more people have wrestling heroes like Hughes, Randy, Tito, Sherk, etc who are showing that wrestling is a really useful martial art.
Keep firing Assholes!
Romans, be it your duty to rule the nations with imperial sway … to impose the rule of peace, to spare the humbled and crush the proud.
by Ubernoober on Aug 22, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Right
but as Phildo points out below, once they are out of high school or college (assuming scholarship), they will head to MMA rather than compete in wrestling internationally. So while it may help amateur wrestling at the high school and college levels, will it beyond? I’m not so sure.
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is there beyond college really?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 22, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I admittedly don’t know much about wrestling, but there is the olympics and international competitions, as well as working as trainers for upcoming wrestlers. Along those lines. When the older wrestlers no longer exist, it will be that much harder for younger wrestlers to get the training and mentoring that helps them so much.
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is there was and is no money in doing that.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 22, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
until MMA, these guys didn’t have much of a future in store for them (generally speaking). A few could become pro wrestlers, or try out for other sports, but aside from that I agree, money would never be flowing into their accounts.
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, the trouble is for the olympic wrestling program. The olympic wrestling program was made of the best college wrestlers who went on to be college/high school wrestling coaches and were still able to compete at an international level. This path really doesn’t ivolve getting that much money, unless you won at the olympics, and even then, it wasn’t that much.
Now the top level people will be looking to move into mma sooner, because the money is there, and it’s going to be getting better in the future.
The people wrestling after college did it because they loved it and it was the only way for them to make a living doing it. MMA is another way to do it, and looks like it will be more lucrative soon.
by Phildo on Aug 22, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
and they will do so instead of becoming coaches, which may very well hurt amateur wrestling in the long run.
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If someone with the wrestling mentality wants to go gold at the olympics, they aren’t getting distracted by anything, let alone MMA.
Also, increasing the size of the talent pool increases the chance of coming up with a genetic freak like BROCKLESNAR!!!!!!
Keep firing Assholes!
Romans, be it your duty to rule the nations with imperial sway … to impose the rule of peace, to spare the humbled and crush the proud.
by Ubernoober on Aug 22, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The real obstacle wrestling has is college sports budgets. Wrestling just doesn’t bring in the revenue the way sports like football and basketball do.
Long-term, MMA will help wrestling. Kids that aspire to become fighters are going to join their high-school wrestling teams to get training. Like Ubernoober said, kids that want to be the next Randy Couture or Matt Hughes (God help us all) will gravitate towards wrestling.
by MMAEruption on Aug 22, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t mean to put words in your mouth – point is, kids look up to these guys and that will lead them to wrestling.
by MMAEruption on Aug 22, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the problem is that those people will bail out on the US wrestling program right after college, because MMA is such a more profitable thing for them to do.
Hendo went to the olympics twice, Randy was an alternate 3 times and went to the trials again in 2000. That’s not going to be happening much lately. The time commitment to try and be an elite level wrestler (after college) is too much, that it will be hard to do both. I figure people will take one shot at the olympics then switch over to mma full time, which will disrupt the way the wrestling world operates.
by Phildo on Aug 22, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. Also it may well become the circular problem where: people don’t train pure wresting anymore, so no one to mentor the younger wrestlers.
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only college sports budgets, Title IX hurts it as well.
It’s tough to have football carrying 100 men and add in a wrestling team with 25 men and keep your numbers similar.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Aug 23, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure how you could have amateur wrestling as a career and that is their real problem not MMA. It’s not about flashing around money it’s about getting any money at all for doing it, the only real reason for doing amateur wrestling after college is the Olympics and for the vast majority of the amateur wrestlers coming out of college that isn’t a career choice at all. So yea MMA may hurt the Olympic team but over all MMA isn’t going to kill amateur wrestling it’s going to save it by actually giving young people a reason to take it seriously as a potential career post college.
by who me on Aug 22, 2009 11:58 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
People who wrestled in high school and/or college, unless they got useful degrees, I think would go on to manual labor jobs or jobs in the wrestling industry. So truly, not much of a wealthy future lay ahead for them. In that respect, I think MMA will help these people out. But long term? I’m not so sure.
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would a guy with college degree go into manual labor?
The guys who don’t wind up in coaching end up becoming white collar workers, just like most people who graduate college.
by Steve4192 on Aug 22, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necesarily (yes, I never can spell that word right). Athletic scholarships don’t mean people will wind up either educated or employable in the white collar sector if they do complete their degree.
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In general amateur wrestling was a more upper scale sport (in a intellectual sense) than the big college sports. It’s not like we are talking about guy who get college scholarships for basketball but can’t hardly read, amateur wrestlers are probably a lot more likely to use the college opportunity to actually get a college degree for their future. Besides they know going in that wrestling has no future beyond college unless you are Olympic caliber. I mean honestly even if they did want to coach just how many coaching jobs for wrestling exist out there? Amateur wrestling has been a dying sport for a long time, any interest in it at all for just about any reason is a good thing for it’s future. For that matter as Satoshi Ishii proves winning at the Olympics can be a path to earn big bucks in MMA too.
by who me on Aug 23, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other side of the coin though is that mma has made it “cool” to be a wrestler at a younger age. When I was in high school most of the best athletes wanted to play basketball or whatever else because its was cooler, and these kids would dream of playing in the nba whether it was realistic or not. Overall i think mma is getting more kids into wrestling than ever
by moopwontplay on Aug 22, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I understand your point. But what happens when these kids grow up and start fighting at the local smokers rather than furthering their wrestling careers (such that it is), and helping others to develop their wrestling?
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
An increase in interest at young levels into amateur wrestling because of MMA will translate into more people getting involved in the sport which will translate into more chances for people to make a better living as wrestling coaches(there just isn’t that many high schools that even have programs currently). More involvement creates a larger talent pool in general and that helps everyone with an interest in the sport surviving. The more people involved young and the higher the profile the more people coming out of college wrestling going into every possible path. Lets face it just like not every amateur wrestler could ever get to an Olympic level even if they wanted to not every amateur wrester will be able to translate that into MMA either, there will be plenty of “coaching canidates” to go around. A rising tide lifts all boats.
by who me on Aug 23, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has MMA hurt Jiu-Jitsu, Muy Thai, Karate, or boxing?
by Bandaka on Aug 22, 2009 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I suppose in some ways yes and no to all. But, as Conan would say, that’s another story. :)
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically, that would be the Wizard (Mako’s character), not Conan.
[/geek]
by Steve4192 on Aug 22, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are all these wrestlers making $18,000 in their first MMA fights?
by JRN on Aug 22, 2009 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lesnar?
;)
But seriously, I thought that was a bit odd too. Even most WEC guys don’t make that much (source). Only Leonard Garcia($24,000) and Miguel Torres ($25,000) made more than $18,000 in the last WEC event and these are professional fighters, not amateur first timers.
I wish the interviewer would have followed up with that question.
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrestlers who are good enough to make Olympics and Worlds will,and probably stay on after to make the next Olympics. but that only a small percentage of a vast amount of guys that wrestle.It help the sport in that more and more kids growing up on UFC will want to wrestle,and thoose that are good enough will go to the Olympics and then do MMA but everyone else will just do mma alot faster
Sometimes you wonder, do they understand the game of football? They have a few drinks and probably the prawn sandwiches, and they don't realise what's going on out on the pitch.
Roy Keane
by RealIrish on Aug 22, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At the very least I feel that the growth of the popularity of MMA leads to more instructor positions for wrestling coaches in gyms nationwide. It’s great to learn from well rounded coaches and fighters but it seems that even elite fighters have trainers that are specifically expert in one discipline. I know doesn’t pertain to amateur wrestling per se but I had no interest in wrestling before learning about MMA, now I study videos of it and train in wrestling at a local gym just to be an educated fan. It would be a shame for any amateur circuit to dry up but guy’s got to get paid.
by HarryBolsagna on Aug 22, 2009 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Title IX has hurt Wrestling waaaaaay more than MMA ever has.
by Zack Gobie on Aug 22, 2009 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
I agree (as of now)
but as Conan the Wizard (Mako’s character) would say, that is another story :)
by mythbuster on Aug 22, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Said the same thing before I read this.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Aug 23, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amateur wrestling World Championships and in the Olympics is going to suffer. I expect MMA will only help wrestlers on the high school and collegiate level. Wrestlers finally are being acknowledged as badasses, and it’s a very solid base and something that most male high school athletes can do right at their school competitively. Now if only collegiate boxing would make a comeback, and if only collegiate judo could be more than an intramural sport in the U.S.
by Chromium on Aug 22, 2009 6:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This mirrors my thoughts on the matter. It doesn’t seem very likely to me that one of the few profitable endeavors that amateur wrestlers can enter professionally while still competing in a legitimate sport would lead to the downfall of the very discipline that allowed them to achieve success.
The pursuit of World Championships and Olympic gold—in any sport—is arduous, intermittent, highly exclusive, and not at all lucrative. The existence of alternative outcomes for time spent honing ones wrestling skills would seem to me to be a strong incentive for people to enter wrestling programs and to stick with it. Granted, if a significant number of people start-cross training early, as might seem to be a logical step, this itself could work to reduce the pure wrestling ability of the pool of amateur wrestlers.
Nevertheless, I see this as a positive thing for a sport that hasn’t offered a whole lot to its participants over more recent decades.
It ends in an armbar or a strangle regardless.
by capital L on Aug 22, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how many times this article has been written.
by Simco on Aug 22, 2009 9:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Once
Kid Nate had one that I found while searching for a photo to use, but his just related the news story. Mine is a commentary and discussion about the future of the sport.
Thanks for joining the discussion in a meaningful way, tho! :)
by mythbuster on Aug 23, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In the broader sense, people have been wringing hands over the death of amateur wrestling in North America for decades now.
It ends in an armbar or a strangle regardless.
by capital L on Aug 23, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I admire your knowledge of every article ever written on the current state of wrestling. I wish I felt confident enough in any subject to state that only one article has ever been written on it. Unfortunately, you say there was only one article yet cite Kid Nate as someone who found another.
It’s a puzzling method of making a point.
I’d also like to add that you didn’t write an article, you commented on one. As did I.
I’m not sure why you felt personally threatened or that I would be directing my comment to your addendum.
You seem to have many tendencies that are over my head.
by Simco on Aug 29, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe on the Olympic level, but wouldn’t it actually help on the college/high school level? You gotta think kids growing up seeing guys like GSP, Hughes, Lesnar, ect would be inspired to take up wrestling. I know a few kids in high school at the gym I train at have taken up high school wrestling to give themselves a good base.
by Zack Gobie on Aug 23, 2009 1:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
