Learning From Kids: How Urijah Faber and Norifumi Yamamoto Relate to Brock Lesnar and Fedor Emelianenko

by Mike Fagan on Aug 21, 2009 9:03 PM EDT in News Comment 23 comments

Faberyamamoto_medium

What a difference a year makes.

Last July, I wrote this FanPost extolling the virtues of a Norifumi Yamamoto-Urijah Faber superfight. Here's how I summed it up:

From my perspective, Emelianenko/Couture is the only dream fight more intriguing. Unlike the heavyweight fight, however, the trans-Pacific kids are both in their physical primes. And with 38 wins and only 2 losses between them, it's a shame we may miss out on it.

Since then, that combined record has fallen to 39-5. Faber's losses, to his credit, came to wrecking machine Mike Brown, the first by brutal KO and the second in a grueling five round decision. Yamamoto, on the other hand, lost a close yet decisive fight to Joe Warren, who came in with only one professional fight under his belt. Following that loss, Korean fighter Jae Hee Cheon, who also came in with one fight - a loss, trainwrecked KID in a K-1 rules bout.

The downfall of Faber and Yamamoto highlights the fickle nature of MMA matchmaking. What was once one of the most sought after fights for hardcore fans now stands as a quaint little matchup. The failed Fedor Emelianenko-Randy Couture serves as another reminder. When Couture dropped his fight at UFC 91, current UFC heavyweight champ Brock Lesnar gained all the momentum with regards to a meeting with the Russian.

Now with Strikeforce's signing of Emelianenko, one has to worry about a super fight with Lesnar being derailed by a loss from either party. By all accounts, it looks unlikely on paper. Lesnar dominates opponents with his size and athleticism and will head into UFC 106 even bigger than an also gigantic Shane Carwin. Emelianenko, meanwhile, has shown no signs of slowing down and will face a less-than-Murderer's-Row of Fabricio Werdum, Brett Rogers, and whatever else Strikeforce can find in the heavyweight division outside of Zuffa's domain.

Yet, I wonder if twelve months from now I will pen an article detailing the failure of Zuffa and Emelianenko's management to come to terms and put the fight together. Lesnar and Emelianenko may be heavy favorites against everyone else at heavyweight, but the nature of being a heavyweight comes with a certain level of variance. When a 250 pound man lands a punch with the right technique, the right force, and on the right spot, even the most sturdy of chins can go down, and all the anticipation, excitement, and glory with them.

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nice piece

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 21, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Fedor/anyone in the UFC will never happen

Dana wont co-promote and unless the UFC starts free falling in the wrong direction nothing is going to change that.

Fedor and his management wont cave in unless there is co-promotion. Even if Strikeforce goes under M-1 will find another partner that will agree to co-promote.

People Fedor in the UFC will never happen but people will talk about it until the day Fedor retires and probably after that as well.

by bigdmmafan on Aug 21, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Fedor has 3 fights left on his deal with M-1

if he sweeps through some mix of Werdum, Rogers, Overeem, and Barnett in Strikeforce and DREAM, we could easily see another round of negotiations to get him into the UFC. Especially if Lesnar doesn’t lose in the meantime.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 21, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

KidNate

do you really see another round of negotiations going any differently than the last 2?

then you add in the fact that Fedor is a co-owner of M-1 so I see him either resigning with M-1 or still demanding a co-promotion with M-1 which I never see the UFC doing.

Assuming Brock doesnt lose many people will think that Brock cant beat Fedor and will call for the co-promotion at least 1 time but I believe Dana wont do it. Dana understands that no matter how good Brock is there will always be that chance that he loses.

The only way I could see it happening is if Fedor does good in Strikeforce and forgets co-promotion.

People forget that he has never fought in the cage before and the idea of having your first fight in the cage be against Lesnar cant be appealing. Not saying he’s scared but who wants their first fight in the cage to be against Lesnar?

Like I said never see it happening but people will continue the talk for a long long time

by bigdmmafan on Aug 21, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fedor has certainly hinted in interviews that he might not resign with M-1 after the three remaining fights. How serious he was we can’t know, but certainly has brought up the possibility himself. At this point that seems like the only chance for him to get into the UFC:

On the other hand, M-1 is almost fully based on Fedor, losing him would basically mean disintegrating the brand. So Finkelstein would of course do everything he can for this not to happen.

by Sventsh on Aug 21, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sadly, the Russian Mafia and Corruption likely rule Fedor’s career more then pure competition at this point.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 21, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would love to see Fedro fight those 3 fights then drop M-1 like a tumor.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 21, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Evolution

This is the key to the sport. Its what makes it impossible to predict. If you don’t constantly improve your game in every dimension you’ll fall behind those that do or have answers for you in your weakest dimension.

Add-in people who are coming into this sport now who have based their developmental “Bar” on the best in the game and staying on top becomes harder and harder. Every weakness and chin expose shows up in the hours of footage for up-and-comers to watch and study.

And then there’s the fact that we haven’t even seen mixed martial arts yet. The recipes are still being developed. What we consider a “style” now will likely be considered limitations in 5 years.

And we get to watch!

by asa on Aug 21, 2009 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes

I am starting a teaching career, and kids these days still play traditional sports, but a lot also have been training at MMA academies since they were 7. Just wait until those kids are 22 and fighting as pros. They are assuredly the next evolution.

BOOSH

by Farthammer on Aug 21, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Depends

What are they training? If they’re all some wrestling/kickboxing, then there won’t be much evolution because there isn’t much variance. Evolution will come from the Machidas and Anderson Silvas and Cung Les – the ones who bring in radical new styles & techniques that force everyone else to devise new strategies. Adapt or die, bitches.

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Aug 21, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They are all training MMA…so BJJ/Wrestling/Kickboxing/Boxing. My point is that the majority of fighters today have a strong base of one discipline, and a good base of others. These kids are going to have strong bases of everything.

BOOSH

by Farthammer on Aug 21, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But isn’t there some doubt as to whether that’s actually the best approach? Most of the top fighters in the world have one clear area of expertise, and in most cases it’s a discipline they studied in isolation. Jack of all trades/master of none types (JOATMONs, I call them) tend to have short rides at the top if they get there at all (c.f. Forrest Griffin).

by JRN on Aug 21, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We won’t really know until we see fighters who’ve trained MMA instead of individual disciplines.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Aug 21, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The thing is, they will stil be known as: “The All-American Wrestler” or “Former Kickboxing Champion” etc….

The young people who train from an early age will still likely want to compete in college wrestling to get the experience, or in the professional ranks of boxing or kicking…. once again for the experience.

That high level of competition outside of MMA is really needed to excel in that discipline to the highest level. GSP is a true exception with his wrestling.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 21, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did you seriously just put Cung fucking Le in the same sentence with Loyoto and Anderson?

by Razreshat on Aug 22, 2009 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fedor...

is so far the one constant in that equation. Brock has yet to prove himself, and as much as I’d like to see him fight Fedor, if he loses in his next few fights nobody will care.

by ludakrish on Aug 21, 2009 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How has Brock not proved himself.

After his original mma debut he has fought 3 very tough opponents and avenged his only loss.

Nobody will care if he loses in his next few fights? People will still care maybe not as much as they do now but will still want to see it and then whoever beats Brock would move to the top of the chain.

If anything there is more pressure on Fedor. He loses at anytime and people are gonna have a field day. If he loses and Brock is still winning most people will call for Brock to be #1 in the hw rankings weather he deserves it or not.

Like it or not there is always a lot more pressure on the #1 fighter in each division then any one else because if they lose they lose the #1 spot.

And if Fedor loses and Brock is winning the UFC would have the #1 fighter in each division finally and that is what Dana wants bad.

by bigdmmafan on Aug 21, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Proving himself

He’s talking about constancy. Even if he had won the first fight with Mir, there is no way to prove constancy in just 5 fights.

by David_ on Aug 21, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brock is 4-1

He’s fought only 3 fighters out of the UFC’s sizeable HW division.

by ludakrish on Aug 21, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This picture in the post looks like Kid and Faber were about to announce the weather.

by dancingChicken on Aug 21, 2009 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The problem is, the UFC fighters are always more likely to lose. They get put through a pressure cooker of competition, while Fedor is going to be handpicking his opponents.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 21, 2009 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Something only tangentially related I’ve thought about a lot is the re-education north american MMA fans need. We scoff at handpicked fights and easy matches, but then we’re so quick to cast fighters into irrelevance as soon as they lose a few times. If we’re going to have a sport where the best are always fighting the best, we’ll soon have to accept that only a very, very small group of fighters will win the vast majority of their fights.

You’d think reading what fans say sometimes that the only good fighters are Lyoto Machida, Anderson Silva, and GSP. Everyone else is overrated for some reason or another. One can only imagine how many morons would claim Fedor was never that great if he lost to Brock Lesnar.

Nogueira-Couture is a good example of this. Instead of celebrating seeing two legends at similar career points colliding, we’re all chomping at the bit to insist the loser retire.

by Michael Rome on Aug 21, 2009 9:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs