Strikeforce's 205 Pound Problem
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 2:02 PM EDT
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When I watched Gegard Mousasi blow through Babalu Sobral on the Strikeforce show I was relieved to see that the promotion was getting another star created on what amounted to a huge show. Now with the news that Antonio Rogerio Nogueira is on his way to the UFC the realization is setting in for me that Mousasi has nobody to fight. There is talk that Showtime is going to be running 12 MMA cards in 2010 which means that Strikeforce needs their champions to headline cards with some regularity.
One only has to look at the last edition of the USA Today/SB Nation Rankings at 205 to see how few legitimate matchups there are. Mousasi beat then #10 Sobral leaving the only non-UFC ranked fighters as #17 Vladimir Matyushenko (a ratings disaster), #20 Sokoudjou (last seen by the American audience getting run out of the UFC, also 1-3 at 205 since his PRIDE run), #23 Muhammed Lawal (a potentially appealing option, but one without much American name value), and #25 Trevor Prangley (a ratings black hole).
So the question is...what now?
Does Strikeforce have the ability to make any compelling fights happen at 205? Should Mousasi move up to heavyweight where there are some interesting potential fights? Or does the promotion just have a star that they can't really use to draw any sort of viewers?
I, for one, would be really interested to see Gegard test himself at heavyweight against a guy like Andrei Arlovski while Strikeforce tries to build up a few fighters into legitimate challengers to his belt. Anything to keep him in the public eye beating people that can help make him the star that he deserves to be.
Update by Brent Brookhouse: Thanks to BE reader sonofapsycho for reminding me that Matyushenko is also back in the UFC, so cross one more potential opponent off the list.
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How big of a name was Mousasi?
Before he ran through the MW GP in Dream last year? Someone will emerge.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
sonofapsycho is right...
I totally forgot about that…updating the article now
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 12:26 PM EDT reply actions
LOL...
I, for one, would be really interested to see Gegard test himself at heavyweight against a guy like Andrei Arlovski while Strikeforce tries to build up a few fighters into legitimate challengers to his belt. Anything to keep him in the public eye beating people that can help make him the star that he deserves to be.
You’re really driving home this whole Russian Roulette ordeal, aren’t ya? Mousasi vs. AA is a bad idea for AA’s career. He needs to rebuild his confidence…. then it might be a decent fight.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I think there is more star power in Mousasi at this point than AA, Strikeforce should be willing to risk ruining AA to build Gegard. Just my opinion.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
*more POTENTIAL star power
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
I was thinking the same shit. You must really want Andrei to off himself :)
by poundnground on Aug 19, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Brookhouse, I expect more from you. There’s an obvious answer to all of this: Bobby Southworth.
He’s a ratings juggernaut and a tough test for any of the top guys in the world, regardless of weight class. If you’re an organization like Strikeforce and you want to bring legitimacy to your championships, you put Southworth in a title fight. I can’t believe you didn’t pick up on that. Shocked, really.
by dropkick101 on Aug 19, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Man… I hope this is sarcasm. It has to be.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Where'd my comment go?
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure why those got hidden...
they’re back now
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
they have to build up Feijao. He seems like the only option Mousasi has the super hulk fights in dream probably for the rest of the year. If Feijao gets a couple wins that would be a good fight in January or Feb.
Mike Kyle is the #1 contender for defeating Feijao. He’ll probably get a shot, even though nobody will care at all.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont know about that after kyle was just submitted so quickly by werdum.
by sonofapsycho on Aug 19, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It was at heavyweight. Kyle is the #1 contender at LHW.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
you just blow off that loss by selling Kyle as an “anyone, anytime” guy who took a fight against a “top heavyweight” in Werdum just because he “loves fighting”
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right, and as mentioned below… Mike Whitehead will be in the mix as well.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
List
Randleman
Whitehead
Kyle
Ferajao
Lawal
Don Frye (?)
Minowaman (?)
Seth Petruzelli
Aaron Rosa
Look to the challenger series to build some up and comers
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Also recently departed UFC guys
Travis Lutter
Tim Boetsch
Houston Alexander
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Houston is still with the UFC, they are just letting hime have a fight outside the organization
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Aug 19, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet they’re going to be doing that a lot more with named fighters at the bottom of their divisions, as long as that place outside the org is not SF or M1.
Also, if a network TV deal gets done, they might need more fighters.
They said they wanted to cut down the roster, but I think if they really wanted to do that, it would be cut down already. The goals change all the time, you never really know what they’re up to.
LOL, all of these guys would probably lose to Feijao easily, let alone Mousasi.
BTW, anyone catch David Heath’s revenge blow to the back of the head on Inside MMA after he KO’d the guy. What an asshole.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It was intended as a joke. I just scribbled down the worst UFC washouts I could think of.
As far as Feijao goes, I still have high hopes for the guy, but that loss to Mike Kyle is just ugly. At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised by anything that happens with him, from beating Mousasi to losing to a UFC reject like Hogar.
Ugly is the only way to describe Feijao’s performance in that fight. He fought like he had just gotten out of a coma.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Aug 20, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m sorry, but Boestch and Lutter both lose in the first round IMO. As for casual interest, that could be a possibility.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to laugh at the list of fighters above. Even if you did an 8-Man Tournament to determine a #1 Contender…. That guy still wouldn’t even be in the Top 20.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 19, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
He’d probably be Top 20 if he ran through that tournament.
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by Richard Wade on Aug 19, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The answer is simple…. Mousasi has nobody to fight. Some fans can try and justify who Strikeforce puts in front of him, but nobody is a worthy challenger.
And him moving to Heavyweight is a joke. I’m not saying he wouldn’t have some success, but it is a joke. At Middleweight, he never beat a current Top 10 fighter. At Light Heavyweight, he beat Babalu who was borderline Top 10.
How does that make him okay to be challenging any of the better Heavyweights in Strikeforce? The answer is, it doesn’t.
The Mousasi signing by Strikeforce just makes their Light Heavyweight Division look weak. At least Babalu could be competitive with guys like Southworth….
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 19, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions
The lack of depth is an inherent problem with Strikeforce. In the last year they were able to get on a bit of a roll, trying to build stars, but in reality, those stars will end up going to the UFC in a year or two. That leaves SF in the dust, doing all the work, but getting no benefits off their investments. Mousasi probably should move up in weight, but their HW division isn’t that stacked either. Better off than their LHW division, sure, but still not deep. Going forward, it’ll be really tough for SF to sign the new talent. On top of poaching their stars, the UFC will probably go after every other unsigned fighter that crops up that shows any real potential, just to fuck with SF. It’ll be really interesting to see what SF’s roster looks like in the near future.
I love me some Sexyama!
Problem is
The UFC cannot keep everyone on their roster. They will have to purge guys simply because they cannot get these guys fights.
20 cards-10 fights per card is only 400 total fight slots per year available in the UFC. Assuming everyone fights 2 times per year. That really only allows for 200 rostered fighters on the UFC payroll.
As the sport grows. More top level guys will enter the sport. There just has to be opportunity to make it worthwhile.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Unless they increase the number of events.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t be shocked to see a weekly show announced in 2010 to fix this problem. Even if it is live every other week…..
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 19, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not weekly, but they could fit in more fight nights and stuff.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I see a scenario where the UFC will do a live fight night one week and a PPV two weeks later and keep it on a constant schedule year round where they have a live event once every other week. They have too many fighters and not enough slots on their cards to only put on 18 – 22 events a year.
It may eventually come to a point where during down sports months, April – August, we’ll have 3 live events every month, especially if the UFC – WEC merger actually comes to fruition.
by Screwface on Aug 19, 2009 3:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You gotta remember that the logistical side of that endeavour would cost them more money and more money for staffing. So, is it realistic? It could happen, but I wonder if they want to stretch it.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
If it comes with a network deal that is worth money (they wouldn’t do it without) they could do it. You have to spend money to make money.
The only cards they’ve lost money on lately (if they did) were the first few cards in Europe. For Zuffa having a card = making money. They may have to hire some more staff, but that isn’t really an issue for them, since it will lead to more revenue.
The problem is that Strikeforce can’t just take UFC guys who lost and put them into their organization. It will make them look even more second rate.
Oh wait, they’ve already done that a lot.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 19, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Then they'll be exactly what they are
The #2 promotion in the states.
Is this really a problem? Causal fans might not care about global/national promotion status if its on free TV or a network they’ve already ordered for Dexter or what-have-you.
by asa on Aug 19, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Arona is the answer.
Nobody can get real ratings at LHW outside of the UFC, but Arona is top 5 talent and a compelling fight.
completely forgot about him. thats a good and marketable fight.
by sonofapsycho on Aug 19, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno how marketable it is. Arona’s never fought once in the US, 1-3 in his last 4, hasn’t fought in over 2 years, and might have trouble with the…ahem…testing that commissions do over here.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
yea
marketable isn’t the best word. atleast hes a damn good fighter that people would recognize.
by sonofapsycho on Aug 19, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
What people do you think would recognize him? Only the ones who watched pride, or caught his Rampage fight on youtube. Most casual fans have never heard of him
i wasn’t talking about the casual fans. the casual fans dont even know who mousasi is.
by sonofapsycho on Aug 19, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It isn’t marketable at all. But for hardcore fans, it’s at least a compelling fight. After that, there’s nothing.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
When is the last time he fought? Calling Arona top 5 is a bit of a sretch.
Keep firing Assholes!
Evil always triumphs because good is dumb.
Arona wasn’t even Top 5 before he stopped fighting. He definitely doesn’t have the talent to be top 5 right now.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 19, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a Chuck/Tito 2 noob, and the only time I’ve seen Arona is when he got powerbombed through the mat by Rampage.
Keep firing Assholes!
Evil always triumphs because good is dumb.
Arona had solid grappling, but horrible striking. Kept his head straight up, which was always a target. And his chin is weaker, as he was KO’d 3 times…. Soko, Rua, & Rampage.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 19, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s also very powerful. Huge strength for a guy of his size, but he uses it for his grappling versus any striking.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
none of those KO’s were a result of his head being high, rua KO’ed him on the ground, rampage KO’ed him with a head butt (due to the power bomb, non intentional), and soko KO’ed him after a scuffle when arona was trying to take him down. Arona fought a bunch of strikers, and his head being straight up was never a problem.
And all of those KOs were done in spectacular fashion by things that would have KO’d anyone. Arona has never, ever shown to be chinny.
Seriously, the guy beat Wand and then lost a CLOSE split decision to him for the title. Both fights when Wand was still killing folk. His loss to Shogun was part of why Rua was thought to be the top LHW fighter in the world. He trounced Overeem and then got KO’d by Soko. None of those losses are bad, especially at the time they happened.
He did better against Fedor than anyone ever. He is a freaking beast.
by Chris Barton on Aug 19, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
the power bomb koed him not the butt
he got dropped like six feet onto the back of his head, the idea that he wasnt already out from that is ludicrous
Not when he stopped fighting. After the loss to Soko, he was out of most people’s top 10’s by then.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 19, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not. Other than getting caught by Soko when that was happening to everyone his only losses we to Wand, Shogun and Rampage who were all top 5 guys as well. He beat Wand when Silva was at the very top of his game.
Arona is the best grappler in LHW and possible the best grappler in MMA.
by Chris Barton on Aug 19, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing like making your title legit by getting a guy who hasn’t fought in over 2 years and was 1-3 before he stopped fighting.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 19, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, he’s 1-1 in his last two fights where he holds a win over their current HW champ… The soko loss is like GSP Serra I, it wouldn’t happen again I guarantee (and the UFC just got the other guy that got caught by soko). In the 1-3 scenario you just gave, taking soko out (already explained), leaves wandy (who he beat once and lost once in the same year where wandy was champ by very close decisions), and shogun, who is fighting for the UFC LHW title (and in my opinion will be the new champ). So yes, I’d say it’s legit.
I'm with sonofapsycho...
I forgot about that as well. If they can’t get a marketable fight going…get a legitimate sporting contest going.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Mousasi is already facing Sokoudjou in the DREAM Super Hulk tournament in October. So unless that is a back and forth exciting fight or if Sokou wins I don’t see a rematch at LHW making sense.
Watch him take on Kyle next, then possibly Whitehead. If I were Strikeforce I’d go hard after Lil Nog before anything is signed with the UFC.
Also with a potential DREAM alliance he could face Filho, Manhoef (even though he is a normally a MW, he lost to Filho at LHW) Manhoef lost to Mousasi in the Dream MW tourney
Arona is also a wild card Free Agent that would create some buzz
True...true...
Whitehead is PROBABLY what we’ll see. And that’s just a turd of a fight honestly.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Mousasi would probably be better off going down to 185.
Keep firing Assholes!
Evil always triumphs because good is dumb.
He says he can't make the cut anymore
Not a lot of options in Strikeforce at MW either. Lawler? Shields?
Yeah...
you really don’t want a guy trying to force a cut he doesn’t think he can make. there are health concerns, performance concerns, confidence concerns. It’s just not a good idea.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Still better than his options at 205. There’s not a lot for hin to do in Strikeforce.
Keep firing Assholes!
Evil always triumphs because good is dumb.
He’ll destroy at 185 in SF. It’s not worth ruining that division’s credibility.
I STILL poop rainbows.
a rematch with jacare would be good
their first fight was too fast and jacare was winning it before he got caught with the up kick. and he doesn’t really look like a big 205’er, but that’s just my opinion.
It was way too fast to really say someone was winning. Yeah, he was winning, but it was over so quickly.
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by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
for sure
I’m not saying jacare would have won that fight had he not gotten caught by the upkick, but he was giving him hell before he did. too fast, and a rematch is a must (if he’s willing to drop, but I won’t fault him for not doing so). Let’s not forget that it was due to this fight with jacare that mousasi started getting all the hype he did.
I thought he looked big at 205, at least height wise. I can see why he can’t make the cut to 185 no more.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 19, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
isn’t fihlo supposed to be going to light heavy?
thats a good fight for him.
by sonofapsycho on Aug 19, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Except Filho sucks at striking, and it should be in a textbook called “How Not To Strike EVER… in a Fight ANYWHERE”
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
so what? hes still a wizard on the ground
by sonofapsycho on Aug 19, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
There is a high likelihood that he gets absolutely pummeled before it even hits the ground in that fight. That’s how bad Filho’s stand-up is… and his takedowns aren’t great at all.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
did he bang your little sister or something? i sense some hatred for him here.
hes still a great fighter and would make a great fight.
by sonofapsycho on Aug 19, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I’m a big fan of Filho. He’s a solid power grappler, and 99% of the time, I’d say he beats Mousasi all over the place on the floor, but the problem is that he has the most ridiculously bad stand-up…
I mean, you could put a drunk down at the bar in the ring with Filho.. in a kickboxing fight, and the drunk might have a shot. Filho doesn’t have any form to his punching, he just throws huge looping shots everywhere. Mousasi is calculated, to the level of a K-1 striker, and he has good ground defense. Filho probably beats him on the floor, but Filho has never been explosive in the takedown game.
Mousasi beats him.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
the same could be said for someone like jake shields whos standup is dreadful.
doesn’t mean i wont watch him fight.
by sonofapsycho on Aug 19, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
and the same goes for maia
still, their records shows they can go by without the need of superb striking skills.
Except Jake Shields isn’t a LHW for one, and two… I can’t really compare the two when Shields has some quickness for takedowns at that level. Filho doesn’t. He’s shown it in the past at Middleweight when he could cut to it without dying, but at LHW, he’ll slow down.
Maia is intriguing, but it’s because his BJJ is on another level. Mousasi is good enough on the floor to avoid that stuff, but Maia could present problems. He may be somewhat of a problem, but there is a scarcity of fighters like that who apply. Filho isn’t one of them in my mind, but if he did get Mousasi into a dominant position, he could probably win easily.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? I fail to acknowledge that win. In my mind, Manhoef is undefeated and will fight Bisping in an English pub by New Years.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Arlovski!?!
What if AA comes in and smokes Mousasi, which is a very real and likely possibility? It wrecks Mousasi as a potential draw and doesn’t do a great deal in rebuilding Andrei’s credibility (“he beat a puffed up MW etc”).
Then...
you say “He tested himself out at heavyweight and it didn’t work out. Now he’s back in the division where he dominates” or something. It’s all in the salesmanship. It’s what the UFC does so well that everyone else needs to learn.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree. its s shame we dont see more fights like an AA vs. Mousasi. Everyone is so scared to get a loss on their record.
i for one think he beats AA.
by sonofapsycho on Aug 19, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Hector Lombard
He is a MW but recently said he wants a rematch at any weight. Maybe even a catchweight.
At HW they could start him off against someone like Ricco Rodriguez
Could Shamrock fight at LHW…..It would sell, but Shamrock would get destroyed. He looked tiny against Diaz
Hector is in the process of being absorbed by the UFC.
Keep firing Assholes!
Evil always triumphs because good is dumb.
Possibly
If the UFC and ESPN get a deal together.
Off Topic but that would mean Eddie Alvarez in the UFC too.
But I haven’t heard any rumors of Lombard going to the UFC in the near future
they did just “postpone” their second season premiere until january. not a good sign for them at all.
by sonofapsycho on Aug 19, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Frank Shamrock? No fucking way that EVER happens.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Frank doesn’t take fights he doesn’t think he can win. Unfortunately for him, he’s losing to hand-picked opponents, so I don’t see any way he doesn’t get destroyed by Mousasi.
by filipinomix2oo0 on Aug 19, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Rogerio in ufc is a bit of a wank though, hasn’t he said he’s buddies w/machida and won’t fight him?
Also, strip cung le of the title already and have a mw tourney
by kanodogg on Aug 19, 2009 12:49 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
And he won't fight AS
Pretty soon Blackhouse is going to have 4 of the top 5 LHW (if Feijao improves) and none of them will fight each other
There’s absolutely ZERO chance of Strikeforce putting him in with Kyle. Despite the fact that his fight with Werdum was at HW, Kyle is still coming off of a loss. Hardcore fans won’t view him as a legitimate opponent and casual fans will laugh at the fact that they’re putting this guy whose supposed to be champion in with a guy who just lost. From a sporting perspective, it sucks. And from a marketing perspective, it’s even worse.
Arona and King Mo would both make sense — assuming Mo gets past Don Frye. Maybe Hector Lombard could move up in weight for that rematch. Aside from that, they better start doing some serious scouting and build up some fightersover the next few months.
If I were them...
and I thought I could get Mo under contract I’d send a film crew to get GOOD video of the Mo/Frye fight so I had some film to work with.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
regardless, i’d have someone there to get good film of the fight, so you have something that isn’t just fancam crap
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That's true...
I forgot it was an M-1 card. I’m really off my game tonight.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
as an example...
it’s 1:37 in the afternoon and I just said “tonight”
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
anyone see the lombard vs mousasi fight? mousasi absolutely dwarfed lombard. i dont think lombard will be going to light heavy.
by sonofapsycho on Aug 19, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I wrote about this a few days ago on WKR and there really isn’t anyone. You have Anthony Ruiz, Babalu and Southworth currently on the roster at 205. Jake O’brien just got cut by the UFC, Mike Whitehead & Mike Kyle’s name has been floated here. None of these names really jump out as fights anyone wants to see. The best match up is Sokoudjou who he fights in a few month in Dream or maybe King Mo.
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I don’t think Ruiz is with the promotion. He fought on some regional card a month ago I believe.
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by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
O’Brien is interesting. Even though he just lost, if they can get him a quick match against Whitehead, Southworth or Kyle and he can win, he is a bigger name just because he was in the UFC. He is also a former HW and a big guy for Mousasi to take on.
O’ Brien would at least have the UFC tag on his name as a former fighter. It could prove to be somewhat worth it.
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by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Other possibles (though not likely):
Trevor Prangley
Mamed Khalidov
Stanislav Nedkov
Jared Hamman
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
Mamed Khalidov
Yes Please!
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Everyone probably wants to see this so Seth gets clocked.
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by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s definitely marketable. More than just about anyone on the list. He’s a legit 205 (size wise I mean, not exactly talent-wise). A one-off between these two allows them to develop some of the others mentioned for the last fight of Mousasi’s contract a year down the road or so.
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Yeah...
no one has really tanked what should have been a huge moment like Seth Petruzelli
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Too slow IMO
But not a bad choice.
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by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
he’d get picked apart by the quicker Mousasi but he’d be a nice fit in the division and a better fiht than most options.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh wait... I'm sorry...
SHANE DEL ROSARIO is THE ANSWER.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Give Shane a fight with Mike Kyle, and see what happens. It’s most likely going to eventually provide some solid hype for a Mousasi-Rosario showdown. Rosario is the real deal.
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by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
He says he could probably do it, but he’s never tried to cut to it before, so it’d be a couple of test fights at 205 before ideally.
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by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Monson goes like 250… he’s way overly bulked up. So cutting to 205 is doubtful. He could always let go of some of his muscle mass, but doubt that he will. Frame-wise he’s a welterweight. :)
He is kinda short so thats why I though of him. I didn’t think he was at 250…Maybe 230. I doubt he could make that cut anytime soon either if he is that big.
Monson can't make 205.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
If he could...
he wouldn’t look like (or fight like) the same guy. It’d be…just awful
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Strikeforce needs to build talent
I’m not sure Strikeforce can ever be a sucessful top tier promotion. Once they get any top Tier fighters they need to put together compelling fights and that is a challenge when the UFC has all the talent. Even if they have a top tier guy 2/3 fights later they are inevitably left with what now?
With the UFC seemingly going after strikeforce targerts Matushenko, Little Nog, etc. It makes this an even harder sell.
In the long run, Strikeforce needs to build stars. Its a gamble and takes a big upfront investment, but they have to do it. They need to get guys like King Mo, Lashley, etc. with big money early contracts. Then they need to let them develop slowly while building stars. Even if King Mo isn’t a credible challenger at least he might percieved to be one by the fans.
They also need ways in the contracts to lock fighters up for the long run in case they do hit a certified star.
Ultimately they could hit the jackpot with a three fight series between two real stars…but I just don’t see that happening.
The problem is that they have no big name talent, they have to try and build it up.
They can try to do that on the Challenger series, but they need a title fight for Mousasi now.
Non-UFC orgs really should embrace the tounament format. It doesn’t matter who is in the tournament, people get respect from hardcore fans, and it’s something that casual fans get get, it’s simple.
I’m not trying to disrespect Mousasi, he’s a great fighter, but the fact that his fights in Dream were in a tournament gives him more credit than if he would have just fought those opponents on their own.
Just grab whatever 4 or 8 205ers they can find (depending on the schedule for the rest of the Super Hulk Tournament) and hype they hell out of the tournament until he’s ready for a title fight.
If it’s an 8 man tournament, it doesn’t matter who the 8 people are, the winner will be cracking some rankings by the end, regardless of what else happens in the division.
Agree
I think the tournament format is the best way to build a star. Still in the long run you need a string of top 15 guys and that is going to be hard.
Mousasi is a prime example of this
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by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Aug 19, 2009 1:40 PM EDT reply actions
Nick Diaz
Would be willing to jump up in weight and it would be a somewhat compelling and marketable fight.
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Aug 19, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions
They should start signing some of these guys regardless if they want to have a LHW division.
Viable options, in order:
1) King Mo Lawal has charisma (in his entrances) and is an exciting and marketable fighter who is arguably in the Top 20. I think he’d be the best guy for this.
2) Ricardo Arona is returning to action soon, and was a top 10 fighter last time he fought. If he gets by Marvin Eastman next month then StrikeForce should try and sign him immediately.
3) If Sokoudjou beats Mousasi at the Super Hulk Tournament, then they should probably make him the first option for Mousasi in StrikeForce to rematch for the title. Probably won’t happen though.
Things get pretty slim at this point….
4) Mamed Khalidov is a rising star who is 15-0-1 in his last 16 fights and has already fought for Showtime once. Mike Whitehead is 15-1 in his last 16 fights, and I believe he is under contract to Strikeforce already. Maybe set them up in a #1 Contender’s match?
After that, they just need to start building up talent. Sign Jake O’Brien and have him fight Kevin Randleman. Have the winner fight someone else for a title shot. StrikeForce has never had a lot of LHW talent in the first place. The first StrikeForce LHW title match was Babalu vs. Bobby Southworth. They already have a lot of better options than Bobby Southworth, so it could be worse.
Not a solution at all but...
The Bitetti Combat III card has a few LHW’s that could possibly fight for DREAM/Strikeforce:
Ricardo Arone (13-5)
Marvin Eastman (16-9-1)
Paulo Filho(17-1) Did he fight Manhoef at LHW??
Alex Schoenauer (14-9)
Leonardo Lucio Nascimento (7-5-1) Cause I’m listing them all ;)
Glover Teixeira (6-2)
Just a few LHW’s to help.
Is Mousasi to the UFC out of the question? There was the whole issue with M-1 proposition a contract that didn’t exist from the UFC, etc. Maybe he has a champions clause…
No one knows for sure how much he got paid for his fight against Babalu.
Mousasi and SF will be fine. If anything this will just make him look like more of a badass and people like badasses. Such as Fedor, Mousasi and Cyborg now. Bet that people were imoressed by her and now will tune in to see if anyone can beat her.
SF doesnt care about rankings they care about ratings. Badasses help with ratings. :P
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
*impressed by her
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Aug 19, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
How about Jeremy Horn?
Any time I think about a promotions division when it lacks depth, but has a big talent in it they are trying to promote I always look for the biggest name for them to fight. SO looking around how about Jeremy Horn. Granted I don’t think he has a prayer to win but the casual fan will recognize the name more then some of the other options. And he’s somewhat marketable with all his experience.
While he has fought at LHW and used to be a fairly big name, Jeremy Horn is best known these days as a washed up Middleweight who isn’t very exciting to watch. I think he’d have to win a few fights before even even being considered for a StrikeForce title shot right now, in any weight class. Considering that MW is arguably where Strikeforce is deepest, and they have much more exciting fighters, I’m not sure they should even sign him at all right now.
Oh I totally agree he seems to be washed up right now, and belongs more in the middleweight division then he does fighting at LHW. But is there really anyone out there that can lay claim to deserving the title shot at LHW? I don’t think there is. So that basically just leaves you with biggest name recognition, which is what I was trying to get at with him. Legitimacy and ability to the side.
Top LHW's Outside Of The UFC
Gegard Mousasi, King Mo, Mamed Khalidov, Rafael Feijao, Bobby Southworth, Babalu, Cyrille Diabate, Jared Hamman, Poai Suganuma, Shane Del Rosario, jake O’Brien, Mike Kyile, Mike Whitehead, Ricardo Arona, Seth Petruzeli, Stanislav Nedkov, Ralek Gracie, Kevin Randleman, Trevor Prangley, Rameau Sokoudjou, Aaron Rosa, etc.
Otherwise, a good amount.
=)
I guess that depends on what your definition of top is.
by Phildo on Aug 19, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Tim Boetsch said he is looking forward to signing with Strikeforce soon as well.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 19, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Beastman and Glover Tex would also be options.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 19, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Boestch is a guy who will get fed to Mousasi. For entertainment purposes, it might work in that sense.
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by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The argument, in this case, becomes whether or not you have legitimate fights or marketable match-ups:
Legitimate: King Mo, Mamed Khalidov, Rafael Feijao, Shane Del Rosario, Jake O’Brien, Ricardo Arona
Marketable Value: King Mo with some time to promote his “King Mo” Character, Feijao with some time possibly, Southworth with time, Rosario if they can give him two warm-up fights on main cards at LHW,
Jake O’Brien only for the fact people may know him, Mike Kyle
Honestly, the rest of the bunch doesn’t have much in terms of skill or marketability. Even Southworth, Feijao, and O’Brien are questionable.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
So what you’re saying is there aren’t any other than Mousasi now?
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by Richard Wade on Aug 19, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
These are top prospects, plus, Mousasi wants to fight at HW anyways, so, he can always do that as well.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 19, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, just a few are solid prospects. So you put a prospect in against your champ to see him lose? So much for building the talent…. Does anyone know how many fights Mousasi has on his contract?
by MMAWrestling on Aug 19, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
MASSIVE Stretch on the 'top prospects' call
King Mo, Mamed Khalidov, Rafael Feijao, Bobby Southworth, Babalu, Cyrille Diabate, Jared Hamman, Poai Suganuma, Shane Del Rosario, jake O’Brien, Mike Kyle, Mike Whitehead, Ricardo Arona, Seth Petruzeli, Stanislav Nedkov, Ralek Gracie, Kevin Randleman, Trevor Prangley, Rameau Sokoudjou, Aaron Rosa
Most of these you listed are either burnout’s, castoff’s or ridiculously green/unproven and should not even be mentioned as TOP lhw’s.
Even a couple of the names I didn’t cross out are going to need to win some fights before being worthy of stepping in the cage with Gegard.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 20, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I said it before, but I’ll say it again on it’s own.
Mousasi has super hulk in October. When are the finals? NYE seems like a quick turnaround, so it might be January, either way, there’s time to sort this out.
Take any 8 205 pounders you can find and put them in a tournament. the winner of that tournament will probably be the highest ranked LHW not in the UFC and not Mousasi (he’ll probably even be near the top 10 on some places). A tournament is simple concept for casual fans to grasp, and the hardcore fans that hate zuffa will all get super excited because it’s a tournament.
That really isn’t the problem. They can probably find some guys that are marketable enough for casual interest… but for legitimate competitive fights, there is a scarce amount of LHWs outside the UFC. For all we know, Arona could get snagged up by the UFC at some point. Then you’re talking about guys like King Mo and the rest of the bunch that are questionable in one area of their skill-set.
To be perfectly honest, I think out of all of those fighters…Khalidov presents some danger standing, Mo is dangerous in the wrestling department, but I still think Del Rosario presents problems in both areas. He’s deceptively strong, unbelievably powerful standing, and have great intelligence in a fight.
It really is a problem in which Mousasi could be a top five LHW stuck in a place where he can’t attain that mark, and he’ll never have the competition to push him to that point.
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by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Mousasi was already in the top 10 for MWs, and he will now be in the top 10 for LHWs.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 19, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
As high as #3 at Middleweight, despite never beating a top 10 guy.
I expect him in the Top 5 soon enough at Light Heavyweight. People love to over rank non-UFC fighters….
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 19, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Just stop it… seriously.
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by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha
Sorry, I was thinking he beat Whitehead. I just checked and he lost.
So… it’s down to:
Arona
Whitehead
Khalidov
Mo
Keep firing Assholes!
Evil always triumphs because good is dumb.
I’d still throw Rosario in there as a later fight.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Those are the only non-blowout fights that I can think of. the cupboard is pretty bare, and the UFC will probably scoop up one or two of those guys.
Keep firing Assholes!
Evil always triumphs because good is dumb.
Rosario is far from a blowout fight though. He’s legit.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me just say it is comical to see how far reaching some fans are in 1) Trying to figure out an opponent for Mousasi, but also 2) Justifying some of the names that have been picked.
Let’s be realistic. The best Light Heavyweights are in the UFC. That is where he needs to be. End of story.
I don't think anyone is debating that
but he’s in SF, we need to accept reality and search for the best fights out there for this scenario.
It’s the Edor effect on a smaller scale.
Keep firing Assholes!
Evil always triumphs because good is dumb.
This is true. Then again, I think a lot of fighters outside of the UFC get over rated. Guys can look great outside of the UFC and then they become midcard guys once they fight top competition all of the time.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 19, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Whatever man… you know Sam Hogar is TOP NOTCH
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by Leland Roling on Aug 19, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Trying to figure out an opponent...
How about BJ, Anderson, GSP? Its hard to find tough fights for dominant fighters.
Silva will now be fighting Hendo and Nate, two people he already beat. Who does GSP fight? Swick if he beats Kampman, really? BJ will be fighting a fringe top 10 LW in Diego after dropping from WW.
It is a tough job, and having a hype maching behind you is what makes any fight somewhat marketable.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 19, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
But there’s a difference between GSP/BJ/Anderson and Gegard.
Mousasi has fought once for Strikeforce and after out-classing Babalu, has almost cleaned out his “division.” In comparison GSP has recently beaten the #2, #3, and #4 (based on the BE meta-rankings) ranked Welterweights.
Said another way, if we strip away organizational affiliations are there any serious challenges for GSP/BJ/Silva at their respective weights? There are certainly some interesting fights, but no one in any of those weight classes would be favored to beat any of those three (and I would suspect by a rather sizable margin). What about Mousasi? There are a lot of fighters that I’d love to see Gegard face, however he would not be the favorite in all of those match-ups (this isn’t a slight on him, just that we haven’t been able to realistically assess how he’d fare against elite MW or LHW fighters).
So while having a hype machine helps immensely in marketing fights, the comparison you’ve made isn’t appropriate.
This post is just sad.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 20, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
this is a big stretch... but if we're gonna talk about ex-ufc guys,
i wonder if jason mcdonald would fight at 205. not sure how marketable he is, but he’s got as much, if not more exposure than guys like obrien or boetsch, from being in the ufc for so long.
I've got a question.
How come M-1 didn’t foresee this issue before they signed?
I if they did…and how could they not…how did they justify it to Gegard?
Bottom Line is… They care more about how much money goes in their pocket, and not about Mousasi’s career.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 19, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True enough…but what did they tell Gegard?
“So the plan is to fight one ranked opponent and coast for the next year fighting cans, sound good?”
by MMA_Messiah on Aug 19, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They told him that Zuffa offered him 40k/40k.
by Phildo on Aug 19, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The answer is obvious- he needs to fight Cyborg.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Aug 19, 2009 3:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
this is kind of a repost of what was said above
but was I the only one really impressed by Mike Kyle? He beat Feijao, and was actually performing very well against an in shape Werdum. That armbar was actually pretty close had he locked his heels.
hey guys kinda new here but i read all the time i love this place i know this is a huge stretch but this thread is fun and here is a big list of LH’s and HW’s some guys werent in the UFC recently and some guys on this list went to the UFC recently but i think if were talking about who mousasi should fight its interesting enough to think about…. here it goes.
LH:
tito ortiz
renato sobral
antonio nogueira
vladimir matyushenko
igor vovchanchyn
bobby southworth
kevin randleman
chase gormley
anthony ruiz
ralek gracie
poai suganuma
shane del rosario
glover teixeira
cyrille diabate
mike kyle
alexandre ribeiro
jared hamman
muhammed lawal
aaron rosa
jake obrien
mamed khalidov
stanislav nedkov
seth petruzelli
don frye
tim boetsch
sam hogar
david heath
reese andy
michael patt
travis wiuff
kazuhiro nakamura
mike whitehead
ricardo arona
rameau sokoudjou
daniel puder
rafael calvancante
cristiano kaminishi
HW:
fedor emelianenko
josh barnett
andrei arlovski
satoshi ishii
michael russow
alistair overeem
dan bobbish
eric pele
scott junk
mark burch
josh hendricks
gilbert yvel
anotonio silva
kazuyuki fujita
ricco rodriguez
paul buentello
gary goodridge
bobby lashley
ben rothwell
tim sylvia
roman zentsov
roy nelson
semmy schilt
rex richards
brett rogers
alexander emelianenko
dave herman
mark hunt
pedro rizzo
sergei kharitonov
jerome lebanner
marcio cruz
todd duffee
hong man choi
bob sapp
jeff monson
fabricio werdum
.. no specific order but man thinking about how these fight could go down is fun!
'Here is a big list of HW and LHW fighters that is completely irrelevant to the thread'
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 20, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
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