Women's MMA Attacked From the Inside
by Mike Fagan on Aug 18, 2009 3:20 PM EDT
in News
56 comments
When crusty curmudgeons from dying newspapers liken mixed martial arts to dogfighting, I don't blink an eye. I take solace knowing MMA has shown no signs of slowing down, that newspapers have rapidly lost their market share.
So when David Whitley of MMA Fanhouse uses the same tired arguments to disparage women's MMA, I find myself scratching my head.
From the article:
There is obviously an audience for what she does. The Carano fight headlined the Showtime pay-per-view, and 13,524 showed up at the HP Pavilion in San Jose.
From all accounts, the crowd loved it. Of course, some people like snuff films and Michael Vick's ex-hobby. And our ancestors had season tickets to the Christians vs. the Lions.
The question I would ask Whitley is this: if you're willing to make this argument to attack female's fighting MMA, what stops you from carrying that over to MMA as a whole?
Photo by Esther Lin.
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From all accounts, the crowd loved it. Of course, some people like snuff films and Michael Vick’s ex-hobby. And our ancestors had season tickets to the Christians vs. the Lions.
Wow, that is one pathetic quote.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Aug 18, 2009 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And one pathetic writer.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Aug 19, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a sidenote, I’ve seen many people attribute this to a guy from “MMA Fanhouse”
The guy isn’t an MMA writer, Fanhouse just put it in “MMA Fanhouse” because it’s about MMA. He’s just your regular newspaper columnist who lost his job because newspapers suck, and now he’s writing for the fanhouse. It probably makes him cry that he has to write on the internet to make money, so he’s not an MMA journalist, he’s an old school columnist who doesn’t get mma.
by Phildo on Aug 18, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He doesn’t get MMA, sure. But I don’t think he gets women either.
by George Lucas on Aug 18, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I HATE
how many poorly written articles there are on the internet now. Most websites aren’t even worth reading. This site is the only one i can tolerate anymore.
I don’t understand how someone on a MMA website can say anything negatively about positive things in MMA. The establishment of a women’s belt is a crucial step in MMA moving forward as a sport. I hate how he related this fight to a snuff film or a christians vs. lions situation, because in reality it wasn’t even as close to one-sided as everyone is claiming. The first round had a lot of back and forth, and then cyborg finished. She didn’t come close to embarassing Gina like Anderson did to Forrest.
by amadeus on Aug 18, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what I’m trying to say.
He’s not an mma writer. He’s a sports columnist. Fanhouse is a sports site, and if any of their columnists/writers writes something about mma, it’s going to get tagged MMA and go on the “mma website”
This isn’t an attack from the inside, it’s just an attack. They have a ton of writers at AOL. Michael David Smith, Ariel helwani, and I guess Ray Hui could be considered “mma writers,” but if any of the other bozos they have over there writes something that can get tagged “fighting” or “mma” or “ultimate fighting” it’s going to get posted to MMA Fanhouse.
by Phildo on Aug 18, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the lack of credible writers coincides with the fact that the judging system is BS, and the various other flaws that our neophyte sport is going through.
Still though, i find myself going through MMA websites much more often than any other websites. There is just so much information being passed daily.
by amadeus on Aug 18, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a completely boneheaded comment. It sounds like something Bob Reilly would say.
I STILL poop rainbows.
by Blackout612 on Aug 18, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Christ that’s one of the worst MMA articles I’ve ever read.
by George Lucas on Aug 18, 2009 3:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I mean seriously
It came days after the International Olympic Committee approved female boxing for the 2012 Olympics. The ancient Greeks who started the Olympics treated women like property. Now we’re letting women treat themselves like animals.
by George Lucas on Aug 18, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
WHAT? I didn’t even read the article itself, and now I’m afraid to.
I STILL poop rainbows.
by Blackout612 on Aug 18, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow…
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 19, 2009 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now we’re letting women treat themselves like animals.
I didn’t realize it was up to us how our women behave. Nice to know that he is all for the advancement of culture except for the whole “keep women where they belong” thing.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly his women don't try to get all sassy.
They know their place, obviously.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
by Ozzz on Aug 19, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lame, but what do you expect? This is the page view business!
by MMAEruption on Aug 18, 2009 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's sad that some men still see women in this role.
It’s ignorant, disrespectful and shameful.
"He built his whole reputation (as a) waffle house chef. They've been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes." - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Deo Wade on Aug 18, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what do you do when your wife's watch breaks?
Unfortunately that means its probably time to get a new oven
by amadeus on Aug 18, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s ingorant, shameful and disrespectful is that Gina has been relegated to a “beauty” rather than just an MMA fighter.
by wrathofreason on Aug 18, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw a movie last night and the people seemed to enjoy it. Of course not too long ago village people also enjoyed watching people get hanged.
Celebrities seem to enjoy Scientology, of course celebrities have also been known to be Satanic worshipping drug abusers.
by Dooda on Aug 18, 2009 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i looked for a while
to understand what you meant but i still dont understand your post. Are you talking about Jimmy Page?
by amadeus on Aug 18, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s making the point that the comparisons are absolutely baseless bullshit. They’re not even attempts at analogy; they’re just empty words.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 18, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
??
How did Jimmy Page get thrown in with the Village People?
I thought JP was in Led Zepplin and not a gay bar?
by JAYGK95 on Aug 18, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when he said celebrities that worship satan, i thought JP first. He was into some weird shit
by amadeus on Aug 18, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he’s in a movie with Jack White now, who is also into some weird shit… COINCIDENCE!!???!! I think NOT!
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 18, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if jack white and jack black were ever in a movie together
my head would implode
by amadeus on Aug 18, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This needs to happen. I wish Jack Black had been in Coffee and Cigarettes.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 18, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were both in the Dewey cox movie, walk hard
by kanodogg on Aug 18, 2009 5:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
That’s TRUE!
“KARATE CHOP, man.”
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 18, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jimmy Page wasn't a Satanist...
He was into the occult and that doesn’t mean he worships the devil…. he believes in magic and spells…. Harry Potter type shit.
He was like 'You hit like a bitch.' I'm like all right. And I stood up and slapped him. I go 'Now you just got hit like one.'" - Kurt Pellegrino.
by Gunslinger20 on Aug 18, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t rationally argue women shouldn’t be allowed to beat themselves bloody. It’s more an emotional repulsion that makes me hope these breakthroughs are overblown.
That quote pretty much says everything about the article. Dave’s article goes back and forth on the gender thing, frequently he is close to contradicting himself and he says stupid things. But what I think what he was trying to say was that he’s all for equality, but women’s MMA wasn’t his thing. (At least that’s my nice interpretation of it). There’s nothing wrong with this stance, but overall though, a poorly written piece.
Personally, I found the Carano/Cyborg fight exciting, but I don’t particularly care for women’s MMA in general. I don’t follow it like I follow men’s MMA, and I only really watch certain high profile matches. I admit my ignorance. But to wish women’s MMA not to be popular is silly.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Aug 18, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you on this one
I did watch the Carano-Cyborg fight but I really don’t particularly care for women’s MMA in general. I’m not sure if it’s because I really don’t want to see girls beat each other up or women’s sports just simply don’t interest me. The only (other) women’s sport I watch is tennis, and that’s only the biggest matches.
by rainmaker6 on Aug 18, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too dude
Exactly the same boat. Barely watch women’s sport in general, except for the olympics where I watch everything I possibly can.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 19, 2009 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, the snuff film reference was just wrong. Tasteless and off point considering the snuff film is more a myth than reality (so how does he have a gauge on the audience?).
by bignerd on Aug 18, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That could be said anytime someone brings up snuff films.
I dislike Matt Hughes.
by MonkeyCHops on Aug 18, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I
ll be the first to admit that I don’t neccesarily like watching women’s MMA (much like I don’t like watching the WNBA) but to say it’s any worse than watching two guys beat each other up and to liken it to a snuff film is about as sexist (or flat out ignornat) a comment someone can make.
Totally shocked that a fan of the sport wrote this. Mind blowing. While I might not like watching it obviously thousands of people do and paid to see women headline the Strikeforce event on Saturday.
This guy probably thinks he can “take” Cyborg too.
by ThomasJ on Aug 18, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
See, I can get behind a position like yours. Not everyone has to like EVERYTHING about MMA equally. Some people prefer watching lighter or heavier weight classes; some people like the pagentry of PRIDE and others don’t; I admit my personal bias towards a great jiu jitsu grappling match, and I geek on a sweep as much as a great headkick KO. Whatever – MMA is the biggest of big tents in combat sports, and that’s part of the fun. But to pretend that women’s MMA is somehow invalid, immoral, or just not MMA is ridiculous.
However, I’ll say this:
Totally shocked that a fan of the sport wrote this.
This guy is NOT a fan of the sport. Fans of a sport don’t wish for entire parts of it to fail just because it doesn’t suit their tastes.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 18, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed.
theres something for everyone. I don’t really enjoy women’s mma because my fav part is the athleticism involved in fighting, and the women aren’t on the same level as men. But i still liked the carano/borg fight.
but people trying to make a name by writing about MMA for its fans aren’t endearing themselves to us by strictly bashing something.
by amadeus on Aug 18, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes
matchmaking is so bad in MMA that it resembles a snuff film or a lion-feeding, so I get where he’s coming from.
However, in my opinion, this is not one of those times.
It was a bad mismatch, but it wasn’t THAT bad. It was also pretty hard to make that case ahead of time given the lack of better matchups available.
Unfortunately Cris Cyborg is going to go around Wanderlei-ing her opponents for a while until she’s popped for “supplements” or women’s MMA catches up to her, which may never happen.
In that time, people will continue to somewhat exaggerate the brutality of her matches based on gender discrimination.
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes
by Paynuss on Aug 18, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
good point
Although i think that if Carano had won in as decisively a manner, noone would be making this big a deal of it. I really think Cyborg’s manly features plays into this discussion, which is unfortunate. And really, that fight was not completely one sided until about a minute left
by amadeus on Aug 18, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also think it’s sad that the women’s 145 division is being given the standard to bear for that whole segment of the sport, given how women can really compete in that category at a high level. The 135 division has way more potential. Gina captured the popular mind for a lot of reasons – not the least of them being that she’s a capable fighter, but that’s not the exclusive reason either – and so she got pushed to the front of the line and her whole weight class went with her. On the upside, many more people got to see Santos than might have otherwise, and she is also a skilled fighter worthy of notice. On the downside, the lower weight classes are much deeper but it will be hard to drag the popular attention away from Cyborg and the 145 class now.
Still, one can hope that the smaller fighters will eventually benefit from rising tide.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 18, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm kind of intrigued
to see a super heavyweight class of women fighters. kind of.
by amadeus on Aug 18, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Women in MMA
And our ancestors had season tickets to the Christians vs. the Lions.
Yeah, back when the Lions could actually win.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Aug 18, 2009 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Ba-dum-bum!
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 18, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind that the writer is not a regular MMA writer for Fan house. They have a fantastic staff there, sucks they are getting bogged down by this random article.
by Gogoplata.com on Aug 18, 2009 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Alternative titles for the article?
“Gina Carano Needs To Get Me A Beer And A Sandwich”
by ihateemo on Aug 18, 2009 6:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The question I would ask Whitley is this: if you’re willing to make this argument to attack female’s fighting MMA, what stops you from carrying that over to MMA as a whole?
Sexism.
by ununkvadrium on Aug 18, 2009 6:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d watch Christians being fed to Lions over female MMA any day.
I love how the average “sports columnist” now is just a troll with a sub-par education, trying to get a rise out of the reader to make sure as many people as possible click their link in disgust, as opposed to actually writing something compelling and original that people will want to read.
by DirtyML on Aug 18, 2009 7:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You have to wonder
If this whole thing would have even been brought up if Carrano won…
A point nobody else has yet to touch on…
by ThomasJ on Aug 18, 2009 9:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
“The question I would ask Whitley is this: if you’re willing to make this argument to attack female’s fighting MMA, what stops you from carrying that over to MMA as a whole?”
Because the truth of the matter is, a double standard exists. I’m not saying that I hold this same general philosophy, because I thought the Cyborg vs. Carano fight was awesome (mainly due to Cyborg), but women’s MMA is a whole different monster. While watching men make a bloody mess of each other is exciting and socially appropriate, watching women do the same is….well, kinda sad. Not to make light of dog-fighting, but it’s analogous to watching two pitbulls fight versus watching a couple of these:
It’s like, “Aww, but why? They’re so cute and soft.” Just sayin’.
by ninjaana on Aug 18, 2009 10:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, sweet, a dogfighting analogy…
by George Lucas on Aug 19, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeeaaah, I know....
I should used kitties instead. >.>
by ninjaana on Aug 19, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You raise a good point.
I bet in cultures where women were historically seen as warriors as well, then something like this would not even be an issue.
Much like certain cultures eating horses, dogs (or kangaroos in my case), or other things like bullfighting in Spain are viewed as reprehensible by outsiders.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 19, 2009 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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