Carano vs. Cyborg Sets Showtime MMA Record, But Gets Smashed By UFC 100 Replay
by Luke Thomas on Aug 18, 2009 2:06 PM EDT
in News
184 comments
Junkie offers some numerical context:
"Strikeforce: Carano vs. Cyborg" drew an average audience of 576,000 viewers. The UFC replay drew nearly four times that with two million total viewers, Spike TV officials today confirmed with MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com).
Strikeforce's Aug. 15 event was one of the biggest shows in the promotion's history and featured the long-awaited Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos vs. Gina Carano title fight. As with other competitors, the UFC and Spike TV ultimately decided to counter-program the broadcast.
Strikeforce's event averaged 576,000 viewers (and peaked with 856,000 for the night's main event at midnight). UFC 100 averaged two million viewers, and it's 1.8 rating (513,000 viewers) was the highest-rated program in the male-18-34 demographic during its timeslot.
From a UFC press release titled "UFC 100 ON SPIKE TV KNOCKS OUT THE COMPETITION ON SATURDAY, AUGUST 15" in my inbox:
Spike TV’s telecast of UFC 100 (originally airing on pay-per-view July 11) drew more Men 18-34 (513,000) than anything else on television on Saturday, August 15. Airing from 10:00pm-12:30am ET/PT, the telecast drew 2 million viewers, a 1.8 rating in Men 18-34, a 1.7 rating (950,000) in Men 18-49, and a 1.5 household rating.
The telecast bested heavy sports competition during the day in the advertiser-coveted demographic of Men 18-34:
UFC 100 (Spike TV) – 513,000
PGA Championship (CBS) – 479,000
MLB Baseball (FOX) – 242,000
Strikeforce (Showtime) – 181,000
The good news for Strikeforce is that this event did more than double the ratings than their previous show on Showtime (and if my math is right, it's also the highest-rated non-UFC MMA event ever after beating Slice vs. Tank at 522,000 viewers). And given how paltry the media build up was until the last few days prior to the event, there's no way to not consider the numbers here a success.
But it's a Pyrrhic victory of sorts. The better question is: sure the numbers were great, but how much better could they have been? There's no denying that the UFC 100 replay likely took away substantial viewers overall and in more notably key male demos. There's a legitimate debate to be had about whether the UFC is rallying the base with counter programming or if they're actually depriving competitors of would-be viewers, but the sheer volume of MMA television watchers on Saturday evening makes it hard to suggest Strikeforce came out unaffected.
While the Carano vs. Cyborg fight usurped and benefited from media attention, the UFC-Spike TV tandem proved formidable again. The UFC's loyal and active fan base as well as Spike's relatively large exposure demonstrated the enormous numbers that can be pulled with little more than word of mouth and week-long advertisements on the network. Unequivocally, the success of the counter programming practice further cements the idea it can consistently serve as a ratings draw for Spike TV, making the likelihood this practice will continue all but inevitable.
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Luke I am not sure the UFC 100 “Beat” the PGA.
True that press release deals with 18-34 demo which the UFC owns but the Bridgestone Final Round (Tiger Woods won) did 6.3 million viewers. There is no way the PGA Championships, with the drama of Tiger choking it away, didn’t do better than Bridgestone the week before.
We in the MMA media need to talk about TOTAL viewers in addition to the 18-34 demo.
Plus we need to mention the difference between premium cable and regualr cable. The same way we qualifiy network TV vs. cable.
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by Zak Woods on Aug 18, 2009 1:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Right, I meant in the 18-34 male demo and just for that day.
by Luke Thomas on Aug 18, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know we get a healthy diet of the Zuffa press releases and it always talks about their dominance in the 18-34 demo. I just think it is time to get outside of just talking about men 18-34
watchkalibrun.com
by Zak Woods on Aug 18, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a fair concern, particularly for golf which draws heavy on the male 25-54 demo and not the coveted of the UFC/MMA.
by Luke Thomas on Aug 18, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Advertising dollars are most important for that gender and age group. Obviously it doesn’t tell the whole picture, but that is the type of programming more companies want to be associated with.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
being pigeonholed as a niche is not the exactly the greatest thing. It is good, dont get me wrong.
watchkalibrun.com
by Zak Woods on Aug 18, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1 is still better then none. A show can have solid ratings, but if it doesn’t have a target demographic, it typically gets canned.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed, lots of disposable income in that demo.
by Luke Thomas on Aug 18, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m also not rehashing the Showtime vs. Spike differences. People reading this site should understand that by now. Plus they’re articulated in the Junkie article in terms of household exposure.
by Luke Thomas on Aug 18, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
should but dont
should understand by now but most probably don’t Spike= basic cable Showtime= subscription based
Meaning Spike has a much, much, much bigger reach
would like to see the hard numbers, how many viewers does Spike reach? How many subscribers does Showtime have? Makes for a good UFC press release though
Would like to see how the Showtime/Strikeforce PR team spins this because 856,000 peak on showtime or HBO is really good
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by ultmma on Aug 18, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spike – 98 million – .0204 of total audience Saturday night
Showtime 21 million – .0274 of total audience Saturday night
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I thought showtime only had 15 million subscribers.
Interesting.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Subscribers are up since they first started airing MMA. (Note: Not trying to imply causation.)
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually do.
=)
Showtime has really started gaining steam from Dexter and MMA.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dexter is the only reason I have Showtime. Love that damn show.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Aug 18, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strikeforce got burned!
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 19, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the real problem is they can't follow up on these strong numbers
because Gina lost.
Now everything is riding on Fedor for Strikeforce.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 18, 2009 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it’s all about what kind of depth and follow through SF has. Right now, it still looks iffy.
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by pud333 on Aug 18, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its a win/win for MMA fans though....
I figured (along with some other BE posters) that the UFC would wait to air 100 (free on Spike) opposite the first Fedor fight. That will be the biggest show for Strikeforce (they hope) and the UFC will no doubt counter-program that night.
But having already used 100 on saturday, I assume that there could possibly be a free LIVE event on the night of the Fedor fight. They’ve used their top ppv (100) already, so the only way to top that would be a free live event.
Id like to think that Strikeforce wouldnt schedule Fedor’s first fight opposite a UFC ppv, so hopefully we get some more free LIVE fights that night from Zuffa.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Aug 18, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They still have more PPV replay options..
UFC 101 has been rumored to have broken a million buys and houses the destruction of Forrest Griffin at the hands of Anderson Silva..
But I believe your right.. They’ll be putting a Fight Night card on standby once they know the Fedor date is set and counter it with that.. It would be stupid not to..
The UFC isn’t using all it’s resources to break it’s competitors, which is scary because they don’t even have to. If SF thinks they will survive on PPV, they will fold within 12-18 months …
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point
a ton of casual’s may have a sour taste in their mouth from seeing Spider/Cote free on TV, so it would be nice to showcase him stomping Forrest (who a lot of casual fans prolly know). Also the BJ fight will be nice.
It will really de-legitimize (is that a word?) other promotions to showcase the dominate UFC champs free on Spike. If the casual viewer already knows that the UFC is the biggest org in the world, then seeing their champs dominate top tier competition will only make the champs of the MMA minors see like a joke.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Aug 18, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spider/Cote
was on PPV.
Spider/Irvin was free and spectacular.
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by Kid Nate on Aug 18, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes me really wonder what would happen if Silva/Griffin had been free, and what will happen once it is replayed on Spike.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 18, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well they won’t have the buzz of previously unaired prelim fights to work for them, though.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true, my bad.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Aug 18, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t be comparing MMA to Saturday baseball. A pre-season NFL game can beat baseball in ratings.
by 49er16 on Aug 18, 2009 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
a preseason Football game beats EVERYTHING!
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by Zak Woods on Aug 18, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it’s a success for both companies really. Maybe Strikeforce could have done better if they hadn’t been counter-programed, but even with strong UFC numbers they still broke their own record. That has to be making them smile, they can do good numbers in the face of stiff competition.
by VegasBatman on Aug 18, 2009 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s very interesting that a replay of an event a tonne of people saw gets more viewers than a brand new event. I mean, the matches that weren’t shown at the time of the PPV could be seen online through various means.
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by pud333 on Aug 18, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
its not that interesting.
Showtime is avaliable in 16.5 million households. Spike is avaliable in 98 million.
Not that hard to see the difference there
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by Zak Woods on Aug 18, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True enough. The fact that it did better probably isn’t surprising. I guess I’m just surprised that many people wanted to watch the replay.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Aug 18, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure a lot of people DVR’d 100 and watched SF live like me and my friends too. Those undercard matches were a good move by UFC.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Aug 18, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did
This comparasin is apples to oranges when you think about it.
More people will drive cars today in Los Angeles than will in Orlando Florida. What does that really say?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Aug 18, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just wrote this up at WKR
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by Zak Woods on Aug 18, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with the Spike households vs the Showtime households is that every 82 year old grandmother with basic cable has Spike.
The people with Showtime have it for a reason. Where SF got 1/36 – 1/18 of possible viewership in a small pond, UFC got 1/50 of possible viewership in an ocean.
by Screwface on Aug 18, 2009 3:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Strikeforce wasn’t available live on the West coast.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Aug 18, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pardon me 21 million
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by Zak Woods on Aug 18, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the people who have Showtime choose to have Showtime because it is a premium channel.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 18, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, they’re paying $15 a month to see shows like Weeds, Dexter, the Tudors, and The L Word. Strikeforce, along with the rest of Showtime Sports, is part of a strategy to both attain and retain viewers. If Strikeforce can bring or keep half a million viewers a year, that’s good for $90 million.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Showtime gets about $5 tops from each subscriber. First, not everybody pays $15 per premium channel. A lot of it is bundled (at a discount), or they have DirecTV where the first premium channel is something like $10, then enxt is $8….. And HBO is almost always the first one.
Then the cable company gets their cut.
And not all 500,000 viewers got Showtime directly for Strikeforce and MMA.
You used some really really fuzzy math there.
Oh, and don’t forget profits for CBS, the main parent company…..
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Showtime is about 10-11 dollars a month (but like AlwaysRelaxing said) that’s the basic stand alone price.. It’s usually discounted with bundles..
For example my cable company just gave me a free year subscription for Showtime & TMC bundled for free.. We converted from DirecTV and they gave us this as a bonus.. So I would assume Showtime is the “least” watched premium cable subscription out of the HBO/Cinemax/Showtime…
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I just did the research. It’s $1.68 revenue per subscriber, substantially lower than HBO’s $6.25.
But what I wasn’t doing was attributing all of Strikeforce’s viewership as direct Showtime gains, as much as I was setting aspirational goals, inasmuch as 500,000 loyal Strikeforce viewers means more to Showtime than 500,000 basic cable viewers; MTV, for instance, nets $0.32 per subscriber.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s some good info. No wonder why Showtime always loses boxers to HBO….
So it would take CBS to make a huge financial commitment for them to financially match what the UFC can do. Showtime doesn’t really have the money for it when you figure they have to pay for boxing, movies, and original programming as well…..
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would also add that..
The total net gains from advertising FAR outweigh the net gains earned off of subscriptions so while a TV station might only make .32 per subscriber, factor in the amount of money overall that get’s generated off of advertising sales & the fact that you multiply that .32 by 90 million and it still outweighs what Showtime would be bringing in at their current subscription rate on it’s own..
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
These arent exact figures..
Just used as a barometer to judge total net gains.. between premium channel suibscriptions vs. standard cable subscriptions..
Then you add the advertising dollars on top and it more than triples the figure in favor of standard cable …
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to say because..
The money from subscriptions only go into the equation of Showtime for net gains.. Spike is on standard cable for free and they make their money of of advertising (which Showtime doesn’t make a whole lot of money in)..
I would say the 500K viewers consistently would mean much more to the advertisers that run add’s on regular cable (as those 500K are a wider variety of consumers) as opposed to the Showtime’s 500K because Showtime’s is a specific genre of consumers which limits the draw from would be companies looking to advertise.. You’re not going to see Tide looking to buy advertising on Showtime but you will on Spike all day long.. Regardless of what is showing.. Because Spike has a broader audience reach than Showtime.. Showtime has to survive on “subscriptions” …
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Showtime won’t have much advertising because its a premium channel that viewers don’t expect to see many adds or product placement on.
A targeted demographic is a positive for a lot of advertisers. Sure you might not see Tide which targets everyone and specifically women buyers, but MMA is potentially attractive to a number of advertising concerns: Beer, Liquor, Fast Food, certain movies, video games. In all these venues the narrow audience is a benefit.
by SES 84 on Aug 18, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1.68 per month
I added Showtime back when Strikeforce made the deal with them. They’ve had me back since May. So they’re up to 6.72 by now.
Getting a new subscriber is almost 21 bucks per year in revenue. Or about half a PPV buy.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Aug 18, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That 1.68 is..
Per subscriber… The rest of it goes to the cable or satellite provider’s..
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did some research earlier and found this post on The Wrap
About how premium subscriptions are way up this year. Here are some numbers:
- Showtime added 674,000 new subscribers in the first quarter
- during the same time period HBO added 35,000 (I’m not sure if that’s a typo and should be 350,000)
- and Stars brought in 380,000
The article is here:
http://www.thewrap.com/article/subscriptions-ratings-rise-showtime-hbo_4718
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not an acurate assesment..
Because Cable companies are “giving away” the subscriptions to channels like Showtime for 12 months to entice people to convert.. DriecTV & Dish are now matching the same offer to keep existing customers.. It’s a bidding war in a sense and they’re using the “weakest” premium channel as a bait for switch..
For example I just switched over to cable last week. I was a loyal DirecTV & Dish customer for 14 years.. As part of the “deal” they gave me Showtime & TMC free for 12 months.. They also gave me a discounted internet & phone bundle to switch from AT&T as well.. It’s just the price of doing business.. Showtime isn’t making top dollar on subscriptions either.. I would guess that the “majority” of people converting are not interested in SF either.. It’s just done to make the consumer feel like their getting something for free.. I’m sure the cable companies are buying the subscriptions from Showtime at a VERY discounted rate to help draw in consumers for both parties..
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Numbers on how much is being given away versus purchased at standard rate?
by Luke Thomas on Aug 18, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can not speak on the accuracy of the article
They don’t note a source for the information, but I imagine they have a better avenue to obtain that information than us… or maybe not… And what did we say about anecdotal evidence?? Shame on you! lol ;)
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kagan Research is a pretty reputable source, I believe.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did they note a source?
Thanks for pointing that out!
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not disputing their claim...
I’m just speaking in terms of true value.. I would say their making great money, but not “top dollar” for their services..
HBO has always been the blockbuster & leader in premium networks, like madiq said.. They really don’t have a lot of room for sudden growth as a whole. The article in reference makes great points, but in terms of what I’ve seen in the last 12 months I would say that companies like Showtime (which has slumped far behind the leader board in premium service) would have been stupid not to drop rates and add bundles to entice subscriptions.. I just dont think that article is a good representative to this debate, because on the surface you can easily use that number in the “pro SF” debate..
But the truth of the matter is the majority of those new subscribers were done LONG before SF was in the picture and that should be noted for what it’s worth.. I gave a prime example of what my particular cable company is doing in regards to Showtime so I would imagine that that be the case in more than one market on a wide scale.. Which also means the bottom line isn’t what it’s being led on to be in this particular case regarding SF..
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I strongly disagree
HBO USED to be the front runner in terms of premium stations. I mean, NO ONE could compete with The Sopranos. No one. Then it ended and so did HBO’s rein as the king of premium stations. Showtime has been kicking butt with Dexter, Weeds, Californication, U.S. of Tara, and The Tudors. I’m not saying HBO doesn’t have some quality shows, but Showtime has by far been the leader in that respect.
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Research firm SNL Kagan estimates that revenue at HBO, which includes all HBO channels and Cinemax, will climb to $3.8 billion this year, up 8% from five years ago, when the megawatt trio (Sopranos, Sex and Six Feet) was still on the air.
Sorry, man, Forbes says otherwise.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait...
You just showed HBO… The argument is Showtime vs. HBO. Any numbers on Showtimes numbers compared to HBO from then to now?
I’m doing a search right now myself…
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is from January, but could be different now
http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/01/states-tara-big-love-ratings.html
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting tidbit in this article
Though it has no date… :(
http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/04/showtimes_tudors_outdraws_hbos.php
HBO has about 12 million more subscribers than Showtime.
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two words: True Blood. I mean, Showtime might be growing faster, but they have a ways to go to reach HBO revenue levels. $6.25 profit per subscriber vs. $1.68 is a MASSIVE advantage.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you kidding?
True Blood is an awful show! But does it bring in higher ratings than Weeds or Dexter?
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
About 11 million a week, or over 25% of its subscriber base.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't what I asked! LOL
True Blood has definitely brought life back to HBO although I can’t stomach it at all… But what are the numbers for last seasons Dexter and Weeds??
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dexter averages about 2 million viewers per episode. It did, however, achieve a high of 8 million viewers when they aired the first season on CBS.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah!
Everything I am reading says True Blood brought HBO back… before that though Showtime was leading and there is still a little bit of anticipation to see what the ratings do once the novelty of True Blood wears off. For me that was 10 minutes into the first episode… LOL
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that the HBO-Showtime relationship is akin to the best case scenario for the UFC-Strikeforce relationship. HBO is the clear industry juggernaught, but Showtime still can experience successful bursts, and it too has a loyal fanbase that keeps it profitable.
However, when HBO is clicking on all cylinders, it really can’t be stopped.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya
HBO’s revenue is about triple that of Showtime’s according to this article (http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20090726/SUB/907259997) but they seem to be more than holding their own. I guess that’s where the comparison hits the nail on the head, lol.
I still think True Blood sucks… no pun intended.
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It just might
But this article definitely gives the impression that Showtime was whooping up on HBO
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/315655-_Blood_Flowing_Again_at_HBO.php
After admittedly needing to right the ship since the departure of shows like The Sopranos and Sex and the City, HBO finally seems to be gaining steam. The premium cable network’s trio of summer series—True Blood, Entourage and new comedy Hung—is delivering ratings not seen since the Mob-supported glory days, and the network just hauled in 99 Emmy nominations, once again more than any other network.
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But as a “cost-cutting” proposition, a strategy of staging big events on premium cable every month is still more cost-effective for viewers than convincing them to order $45 PPVs every month. assuming the new subscriber pays $120 a year to see every Strikeforce show, plus a bunch of other shows, that only buys that same subscriber 3 months of UFC PPVs. That means, theoretically, the rational MMA fan would pay $160 a year for every Strikeforce show on Showtime, plus one $40 PPV annually, and still do far better than the $540 they’d spend on UFCs.
All that Strikeforce would have to do is convince enough fans that their events are “comparable to” (40-50% as good as) UFC, and they have a successfully provided fans with a substitute product.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your mistake is the assumption that everyone pays 45 bucks for a UFC PPV.
Most people that order and watch UFC PPVs have friends.
Friends reduce the cost of a PPV significantly.
by Phildo on Aug 18, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as HBO is concerned, it’s probably correct at 35,000, because right now there are about 40 million HBO subscribers; not as much room for growth as with Showtime.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah
Good to know! I really thought that number looked odd, but I guess what you say makes sense.
As far as “package” deals go, I’m not sure if it is the same in every area, but usually (or at least in my experience) you can get ALL the premiums OR you can get one big one (Showtime, HBO, Starz) and then it will include some of the smaller ones as a part of the deal. Again, that’s how I’ve done it in the past, but take that for what it’s worth! Stupid anecdotal evidence…
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by funnytiger on Aug 18, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of people have Showtime because their cable companies do the Bundle Deals.
With Comcast, it starts with $115, then $145, then $175. Until the economy went bust, they would never let you downgrade, you could only go to the next highest one. And it was still cheaper to do the bundle then to get the cable, phone, and internet seperate.
So there are a lot of people out there who have Showtime, Starz, & Cinemax, and probably never watch them….. or barely…..
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not disagreeing with the point, but couldn’t the same be said for Spike?
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Aug 18, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely. The difference is….
People who have Showtime are more likely to have all the premium channels. More options means harder to figure out what is on each channel.
People who have SpikeTV, the majority don’t have a premium channel…. Less options means better chance of watching something on that station.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point. I guess I think in terms of digital cable or DirectTV, where everyone has 100+ options all the time, but a lot of people just have the basics. Well said.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Aug 18, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People with more channels
Are probably better at using the guide and probably watch more TV. So I’m not sure they are less likely to know what is on.
by SES 84 on Aug 18, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice to see a little perspective there
Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ultmma
by ultmma on Aug 18, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good numbers for SF. It pisses me off that they didnt give Rogers an interview on camera and they didn’t fly Fedor out for it.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Aug 18, 2009 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Trying to breakdown the comparison by percentages ..
Is worthless.. Regardless of how many households either was available.. The fact is that one was a live event.. The other was a replay of an event a month old and the results were already known..
This may have been the best numbers Showtime has had for an event, but that’s not saying much.. How many of those numbers do you truly think will convert once SF goes PPV ???
The only way you can make a comparison is if they go head to head with live events and see how they pan out.. UFC dominates…
I think it’s pretty telling considering all the free press Gina vs. Cyborg got to build on through EliteXC & CBS & on through Showtime… The UFC didn’t even try to hurt them to be honest.. If they wanted to really hurt them, they simply throw a Fight Night card together with one big name and go right at them… This is merely showing the dominance the UFC has on the market..
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We will probably get a chance to find out
I’m sure that the UFC will try some sort of Counter-Program once Strikeforce gets on CBS.
That should be a good litmus test.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Aug 18, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not going to be a good test.
the UFC card will kill, just like it killed Affliction, for a variety of reasons. Scope of the networks is one of them, but UFC will kill them in the ratings every time.
by Phildo on Aug 18, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a decent litmus test because we know the UFC card will dominate the Strikeforce card in viewers everytime, but by how much? If Strikeforce somehow pulls 1.5 million viewers somehow… it’s still a damn huge success in the face of a counterprogrammed event.
If the UFC counters with a live Fight Night… then it isn’t a good test. Its suicide.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 18, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strikeforce will NEVER be able to get even 1 Million viewers for a Strikeforce card on Showtime. If somebody wasn’t watching this fight on Showtime, they likely won’t in the future.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You probably should have read the comments I was replying to.. as it was in the context of a CBS broadcast.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 18, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the UFC isn’t going to counter program Strikeforce on CBS with anything live. It risks too much. Because if they lose, the headlines would be horrible. They never countered EliteXC on CBS for this very reason.
UNLESS….. They have Brock Lesnar live on SpikeTV….. Then they would. Or potentially Tito Ortiz….. It would have to be a big star that would guarantee success.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would hope Strikeforce would get over 1.5 million viewers for CBS, considering that EliteXC’s “disappointing” show scored 2.62 million viewers.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I couldn’t remember the exactly numbers.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 18, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually..
I thought it was 6.51 million viewers on CBS debut
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they’re talking about Smith/Lawler doing 2.62, not the Kimbo card.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
by Beer Monster on Aug 18, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, not even close
In terms of ratings, the show averaged 4.85 million viewers and peaked during the main event at 6.51 million viewers, making it the most watched MMA show in television history
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Aug 18, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sidenote.
Remember this when people whine that Zuffa hates MMA next time they counterprogram anyone. Spike and Zuffa would be incredibly stupid to not air the content when it pulls ratings like this.
by Phildo on Aug 18, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Forget about counter programming. I think it helps them sell more PPV’s in the future by giving casual fans more access to the fights. This is something boxing has really lost if you don’t have HBO or Showtime.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it’s a Pyrrhic victory of sorts
Touche Luke Thomas… for fitting in an obscure reference to a war that occurred nearly 2300 years ago. Yes, Strikeforce was victorious… but at what cost? My hats off to you… and hats off to me for actually immediately acknowledging what you were talking about.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 18, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it is a stronger victory for Strikeforce. More like the battle of Antietam (or Sharpsburg).
watchkalibrun.com
by Zak Woods on Aug 18, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, a Pyrrhic victory would suggest that Strikeforce had to sacrifice a lot more than they did for the ratings they got. A believe a more apt description would be were both parties are stuck in a zugzwang.
Look at me getting all pedantic.
by nottheface on Aug 18, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Fedro would be a more apt Pyrrhic victory if it works.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 18, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it works. If they end up giving M-1 on ton and lose the house it would be a Cadmean victory.
by nottheface on Aug 18, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
quick question...
I was out of town all last week on the lake with no interwebs but i got to catch part of the UFC 100 replay. What was up with them not showing the GSP fight? I know it went a full 5 rounds but GSP is one of the biggest stars the UFC has.
Can anyone shed a lil light on this for me?
(sorry if its already been discussed, the only MMA news iv read since getting back in town was about the SF card.)
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Aug 18, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They want to save the proper replay of UFC 100 for another time to get another big rating.
by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubt it..
They wont need it.. Brock is now the “main” attraction in the UFC..
While GSP is known.. He doesnt have the cross over fans that Lesnar brings in on his own.. The UFC has a built in fanbase and Brock is the head draw..
The UFC can counter with any number of things.. They can throw the best fights on a UFC Unleashed special premier & counter if they want to.. They didnt even really try.. All they did was say Brock on Spike TV on this date and it draws…
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The numbers are an unmitigated success for Strikeforce. Well, more for Gina who drew it on her own without any Strikeforce help. This more than doubled the last Strikeforce show.
by Michael Rome on Aug 18, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The question is…. do these numbers stay? Or are they just Carano numbers? Or are they just Carano in a fight people want to see numbers?
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I have to wonder if they can put something like this together again. Strikeforce doesn’t have anyone aside from Carano that has crossover appeal. I’m curious to see how Fedor does, though I’d imagine he’ll be on CBS and not Showtime.
by Andy R on Aug 18, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice draw for both, but I am surprised at how many people watched what I considered a rather pedestrian (excitement wise) card in 100. I tried watching it (dvr), but lost interest after a couple of fights.
The Strikeforce card was fun, but I was disappointed in the quick endings.
Should be fun to see what they come up with next.
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Check it out!!
by BJJDenver on Aug 18, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but thats nothing really
a ufc fight night does better numbers than carno v.s cyborg
by SHOWMAN 56 on Aug 18, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. Basically, being on Showtime is not a good vehicle for being a MMA promotion. CBS is, but that will only be 4 times a year, and the ratings demands will be very hard….
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bigger Questions
Is this the rise of Strikeforce? Or is this just a one time increase in the ratings like Pulver/Faber did for the WEC?
Something tells me it is the later of the two….. People can to see this mega fight….
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nail on the head..
EliteXC did GREAT ratings on their big CBS debut… Drowned in sorrow from then on..
The main point is this..
We’re arguing over free tv in a sense.. What ultimately matters is how are they going to fair against each other when they’re both on pay model ? The UFC has a built in fan base of loyal viewers.. If you had to choose right now.. who would you pay to see ?
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And ratings mean nothing.
Zach Arnold had a great post a few weeks back that discussed TNA. They have over 1 Million viewers each week, and yet their PPV sales are horrible. Like under 25,000 bad.
People purchase UFC PPV’s. Will they purchase a Strikeforce PPV? Just because they can get people to watch for free, doesn’t really mean much.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the issue is revenue source
for EliteXC they had no real revenue source and were massively in debt.
Strikeforce is keeping costs low and are putting +10,000 in a stadium
watchkalibrun.com
by Zak Woods on Aug 18, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The issue is cost containment
What killed EliteXC was their lavish spending.
Strikeforce isn’t generating a ton of revenue. Their gate receipts hover around $1MM for their successful shows and Showtime/CBS are only paying them an average of $0.5MM per show. They make their money by costs under control.
The real question is, have they overextended themselves by signing Fedor & Gina to fat contracts or can they still eke out a profit.
by Steve4192 on Aug 18, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there one person on this sight who has Showtime, was at home, and did NOT watch it?
by naturalist on Aug 18, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That doesn’t matter, and that’s where every other org not the UFC has failed.
MMA orgs don’t have to work to get people who read bloody elbow to watch them. The UFC makes money and is successful because they get people who don’t read this site to watch and give them money.
by Phildo on Aug 18, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the point is that if a consumer could have watched then they did.
by naturalist on Aug 18, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, there are plenty of people that have Showtime that didn’t watch.
There aren’t many hardcore MMA fans that didn’t, but hardcore mma fans don’t pay the bills.
by Phildo on Aug 18, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but the next three big strikeforce show will deliver
with their alliance with dream its gone fun. the fedor return will grab more interest and plus cung le defending his belt probaly against jake shields this december.
by SHOWMAN 56 on Aug 18, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no, no, and no.
Fedor, if marketed propperly (said 1000000 times on this site, i know) can do some numbers for Strikeforce on Showtime, but Shields/Cung Le? No one knows who they are. Great fight for hardcore fans, but they already get our business, SF needs casual fans to tune in. Shields vs. Le wont do that.
And to be completely honest, as great as SF/Dream matchups excite all of us on this site, they will do very little for ratings.
The casual fan tuning in to Showtime is prolly about as familiar with Aoki or Melvin M. as they are with some 4-1 no-name fighter fighting on a Strikeforce card a year ago.
The Dream co-promotion will provide some good fights and it will have all the hardcore’s pupmed up, but business-wise, its just a really expensive way of putting on more fights with fighters that most viewers dont know.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Aug 18, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
by the way...
the fact that Cung Le even has a belt around his waist at all is a HUGE joke to me.
His striking is beautiful, yes, but he would lose to any number of UFC MW’s.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Aug 18, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, Cung Le makes me cringe. He was horrible on the panel for Inside MMA during the weigh-ins, and he has the interview-ability of Chuck Liddell. He’s uncharismatic in that sense, yet does movies? Makes no sense to me.
Shields is trying to draw out Frank Shamrock… seriously? They need to find legitimate competition for Shields with this DREAM alliance.
Manhoef vs. Lawler right away kind of sucks. I would rather have my favorite hulking nightmare in Manhoef marketed as a destructive force by KOing a bunch of TUF washouts and/or Michael Bisping in a bar brawl in England for pushing his popularity. Then push him in against Lawler. Let Manhoef crush Terry Martin, Scott Smith, and someone else.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Aug 18, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your point about Manhoef is funny but true...
If SF wants ratings, then they have to put on the big fights (like Affliction did). Their best fighters have to fight each other. This is good for ratings, but a poor way to build a promotion.
In your Manhoef example, to get good ratings they SHOULD put him against Lawler or Shields or Le, but to build the promotion propery and set a firm foundation for the future, they SHOULD let Manhoef crush some guys and build his name up first before a big name fight. Same goes for Mayhem and some others. Its great when they fight big names, but what happens when they lose (one person does in almost every fight)?
A card with Manhoef/Lawler, Mayhem/Shields, and Aoki/Gilbert looks great, but right off the bat 3 of their biggest stars will lose. It would be tough to get the ratings they need, but the smart longterm plan would be to give Aoki/Manhoef/Miller/Lawler etc… a few easier fights to build their names up.
It looks like SF is going to pull out all the stops to put on big fights (to try and compete with the UFC right away) but it will be expensive, and isnt a smart way to build a promotion that has changed so drastically in the last month alone.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Aug 18, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the problem is Strikeforce can’t bring in these DREAM guys for multiple fights to slowly build them up.
Not to mention having random fighters on your card doesn’t make it easy for people to watch.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MW is the one class they shouldn’t have any problem with a depth of fighters to set up interesting bouts.
What’s the word on HDNets deal with Dream? Any chance Showtime could start broadcasting in between Strikeforce Cards? It could be a win-win – pick up shows cheap and have a chance to introduce Americans to future fighters.
by nottheface on Aug 18, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are talks of a co-promoted event between DREAM and Strikeforce on Showtime or CBS. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great. I hope it happens. maybe there is more to this alliance than the pure “hype” some label it as. it truly could prove to he a win-win. I know Dream is thinking of scaling back on their number of shows, so now they could air Strikeforce cards, Strikeforce could air Dream cards, both putting on more high quality cards on the air with none of the extra overhead.
Holding out hope it happens.
by nottheface on Aug 18, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DREAM’s life source is TBS. If TBS drops them for Sengoku next year, they are will be like Pride in their last months…. Just treading water until the inevitable happens.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why they are working on getting Fedor and some Strikeforce fighters on their shows.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention having random fighters on your card doesn’t make it easy for people to watch.
To the people that Showtime/CBS want to view their programing (casual fans, new fans), most of the guys in DREAM are random fighters.
This was my point, casual fans dont know the difference in some of the DREAM guys (that us hardcores know very well) and some 4-1 Joe “Six Pack” (God I hate that woman) from Arizona.
WE will be excited about DREAM/SF matchups, but WE were prolly gonna watch anyway. To the casual fan, it makes no difference that SF will use some of DREAM’s fighters.
See Affliction: They had some of the best fighters in the world that the casual fan had never heard of…. It looked great to us cuz we knew them, but look how that worked out for them.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Aug 18, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in closing....
I think SF makes a deal with the UFC and Zuffa within one year from today.
Un-popular opinion, but its just how i feel.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Aug 18, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They could be trying to get their company value up before they sell.
And Zuffa would likely gladly purchuse the company for a cool $10 Million. even if Fedor doesn’t sign on again, they will have the entire market cornered. And if Fedor flees from the UFC after they purchased 3 companies he was working for, history will show he was avoiding the big stage (whether it’s true or not).
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zuffa’s not going to buy anything.
Fedor’s contract with strikeforce, with co-promotion, is useless to Zuffa. So are the network deals that involve having to pay CBS/Showtime to produce the show with their crew.
SF isn’t going to have anything of value that would cause the UFC to buy it. The other orgs they bought had many contracts that could switch over, valuable tape libraries, and a bunch of names/images that they wanted to keep for themselves to use/keep out of the hands of others.
IF SF is dying in a year (which I don’t think they will be) Zuffa isn’t going to bail them out, they’ll just cherry pick the carcass.
by Phildo on Aug 18, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
once they get on CBS they'll have equivalent numbers (to a UFC re-broadcast)
by naturalist on Aug 18, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe just maybe...
for their first event… Which isnt saying much.. Thekey is how do they keep the ratings that high in the face of adversity ?
No one has been able to thus far..
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
…. and I bet no one will splitting hairs about network households versus cable households then.
by Steve4192 on Aug 18, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will people admit, then, that all of the talk about Showtime not advertising their event enough were misplaced, considering they did record numbers?
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 2:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No, because they failed miserably on it. How many new people bought Showtime?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 18, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
This was a huge success for Strikeforce and Showtime.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/8/18/993662/strikeforce-draws-average-of-576k
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
WEC 42 drew 670K viewers
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Aug 18, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And nobody called WEC 42 a huge success. Definitely not MMASupremacy….
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a success for a card that didn’t feature Faber.
That is most definitely true.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, they can’t hit numbers again like the Faber vs Pulver fight, but they can consistently get around 500-600K viewers on Versus, which is great, but they do get the benefit of being pushed by the UFC. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think the Carano/Cyborg fight is Strikeforce’s version of Faber/Pulver?
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 18, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to say, though I do believe they will break the 500K mark again. The WEC may do it as well, but, they need another Faber like star.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
keep in mind that the only other show on Versus that had high ratings was the Tour de France last year – so the WEC does bring in the most viewers for that channel
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Aug 18, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely, though they show College Football and those get BIG ratings. I believe they showed Oregon vs Oregon State last year and that got HUGE ratings.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, yeah I forgot about that
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Aug 18, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Advertising, and I know you knew what I was talking about.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 18, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except people keep comparing advertising a PPV, which is essentially trying to get .75-1.0% of the cable TV audience to order a show, with advertising on a premium channel, which is more like getting 2.0-2.5% of the existing subscribers to watch it. The strategies are totally different.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
showtime subscriptions have continued to increase.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
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by ekc on Aug 18, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup..
The advertising was done through EliteXC/CBS/Showtime WAY before the fight took place.. American Gladiators also helped with the advertising lead in..
The biggest key is how many “new” subscriptions did Showtime see leading up to the event and even then how many subscriptions will be canceled now that the event is over and done with.. I personally know of more than a handful of people that subscribed to Showtime for the fight and then canceled it yesterday..
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
But they will continue to do that and that is something that happens with HBO or any premium channel all the time. The key is that a percentage of those first time buyers will keep it due to the boxing, mma, movies, and shows like Dexter. Either way, as long as someone calls in to get Showtime, even if it is for a day or two, it is good business for them.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really...
Considering cable companies have to “pro rate the usage” … If they only had the subscription for 1-3 days they wont be paying the full amount.. Premium subscriptions have an untold rule of not being able to charge you a full months worth of service if you didnt get the full months worth.. They made pennies to the dollar in retrospect..
If they cant draw in subscribers and keep them they eventually change format and try something else.. Because their entire model is based on a pay model (much like PPV).. They “have” to have consistent buys and loyal subscribers.. If they get people that cheat the system on a technicality, they’re not making money either.. They see the end result and numbers..
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that doesn’t change the fact that Showtime subscribers are UP 6% in a recession. That means more revenue, no matter how you slice it. As for their profit margins, the article I looked at has the network at about 30%.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes their up 6 %
Because the majority of cable service providers are “giving it away” to entice people to convert from satellite.. But now DirecTV & Dish are both trying to match the “free Showtime bundle” to keep existing customers…
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Morgan Stanley still estimates that they’ll make more money this year.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL @ investment house forecasts...
The same people that predicted that the crisis would be over by mid 2008.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 19, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Showtime subscription rates started going up when they started showing MMA.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Usually they don't allow pro-ration
Directv for example will enforce a 30 day minimum. At least for new subscribers.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Aug 18, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People end up keeping stuff
It happens all the time…Ohh I’ll return this, but don’t…Think of all the fat people that plan on using their gym membership and then it automatically renews every year.
At the point where you’d be calling your cable company every 2 months for an MMA event, I’d probably just keep it for the other stuff.
by SES 84 on Aug 18, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.. but..
This was more of a 1 off affair for the majority… Gina was the draw and they tuned in to see her .. Nothing more…
People are now “pinching pennies” and willing to return just about anything to stay afloat.. It’s a different time than is was 5 years ago.. People are “cutting back” at every angle and saving their money where it can be…
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except cable premium channels, which are all at all-time highs.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People order showtime when the fights happen. This one card just got that many more people to get Showtime and that many more to retain it and justify keeping it.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this seems like GREAT RATINGS for Strikeforce!
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Aug 18, 2009 3:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ratings dont bring in dollars..
Advertising does.. They didn’t house any HUGE advertising on Showtime.. It was a mild success (depending on how you look at it)..
ESPN should be the tell tail here.. Yesterday on PTI they dogged Gina as a fake & that the fight was horrible.. I dont see it that way but that’s what casual’s hear when tuning into ESPN..
by MMAuthority on Aug 18, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please, please, PLEASE stop using those idiots on PTI as a gauge of public or network opinion. Or have you forgotten that those same idiots absolutely skewered the UFC after UFC 100. They hate MMA … PERIOD. Ever since they got made fools of by buying into the Kimbo hype, they have trashed the sport.
by Steve4192 on Aug 18, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what are you talking about??
SF had a GREAT gate
and showtime had great ratings! highest MMA event ever for them… and there are no advertisers of showtime, its subsription based.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Aug 19, 2009 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The advertising on the mat is how they make money. Strikeforce isn’t going to be getting much of the less than $2/mo per subscriber that showtime gets.
There is always advertising.
by Phildo on Aug 19, 2009 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
saddest part is that iCarly iFight episode drew 7.9 million last week not to mention the other three times it was on it drew 4.5 million
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Aug 18, 2009 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
iCarly > MMA, though show was based on MMA.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 18, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and it was promoted on UFC’s website
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Aug 18, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
At the apple and oranges comparison between Showtime and Spike.
by bignerd on Aug 18, 2009 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Apples are way better
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 19, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SF on CBS this fall = no chance in hell
Saturday nights belong to college football in the fall and it would be sheer suicide for CBS to put up a crappy SF card against primetime football or when CBS could pull in SEC football ratings.
by Screwface on Aug 18, 2009 9:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Well last October, EliteXC Heat scored 4.38 million viewers on CBS, compared to College football’s 5.7 million viewers on ABC. That’s a respectable number for Saturday night.
by madiq on Aug 18, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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