Gina Carano Is Far From Finished
by Kid Nate on Aug 16, 2009 12:08 PM EDT
in News
115 comments
So sayeth Dave Meltzer:
Either way, Carano’s star should not dim because of the loss. History has shown that MMA fans recognize everyone can and does lose. Every major drawing card in the sport has lost at one time or another.
He also discusses the future of Strikeforce's women's division:
So where does it go from here? Strikeforce promoter Scott Coker noted that his next major woman’s promotion would likely be Japanese-style tournaments, with one at 135 pounds and another at 145 pounds, perhaps as early as the end of this year. Coker spent years as the American promoter for K-1, the leading kickboxing group in Japan, which uses a tournament format for its major shows.
MMA Mania catches this Cyborg quote from Ariel Helwani's interview:
"I'm very happy! I was ready to face the five rounds, I was ready to face the crowd, I was ready to face Gina - I was ready for everything. I prefer Muay Thai but if I need to go to the ground then I'll go to the ground. Whoever Scott Coker puts in [the cage] to face me, I'll face, but if Gina wants a rematch, she can have a rematch - no problem at all. I think [the stoppage] was right. The judge's showed a little sign that said 4:59 seconds and I think the stoppage was good for Gina's health."
Randy Couture talked to Loretta Hunt about Gina's fight and her future:
“I think there was a little ring rust there, she hadn’t fought in almost a year,” said Couture. “She had a very busy year so she didn’t get a lot of other training, any extra training in.”
...
“She got in a couple firefights there that she really didn’t need to get into; she got overwhelmed a couple times. She was just covered [up] and when the barrage stopped she didn’t fire back.”...
“I think technically she did some good things in the fight,” declared Couture, “I think we needed to stick and move a little more and make Cristiane chase her a little more -- which is what we trained to do -- but its hard when somebody hits you, especially Gina, she wants to hit them back.”
...
“We need to take some time and look at it but I think the biggest thing is we’ve got to get her into the gym on a more regular basis, more regular fights and keep building and progressing as an athlete.
“I think this is a learning experience for her in a lot of ways. I think she’ll be back, she’ll be strong, she’s got a great warrior’s heart. We all need to go through this.”
Photo by Esther Lin.
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Yeah.
I’ve been thinking about the circumstances around this fight and Gina, in particular. She certainly chose her own path and benefited greatly from a personal perspective due to all the buzz around her. By extension the entirety of female MMA benefited as well. The problem is that all the things she was trying to do weren’t necessarily conducive to building the foundation she needed when taking on someone the caliber and size of Cyborg. Gina’s training camps can be top notch, but eight weeks likely doesn’t take the place a slower paced, more comprehensive learning experience that she’s somewhat forfeited as a result of other commitments. Instances which may have diverted her attention (the EXC collapse and ensuing free agency rumors/contract negotiations) probably didn’t help.
Gina is amazingly talented. Although we didn’t see much of it against Cyborg, her previous fights have given us a look at what she’ able to do as a striker. She simply needs a wider array of weapons if she wants to be at the top of the 145 pound division.
by Cannon Jacques on Aug 16, 2009 8:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
^^^This. Played correctly, the story of Gina’s redemption and redevelopment could still be an intriguing “hook” for fans. Not to use pro wrestling terminology, but a “face” contender chasing a “heel” champion often draws more money than that “face” knocking off all challengers. As long as Cyborg and Carano remain credible, a future rematch can still have relevancy and marketability, and hopefully Strikeforce can build an impressive array of talent around them, in order to have a full division of credible opposition, and future contenders, for the 145-pound crown.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think she’s finished yet either. We’ll see Gina and Cyborg in a couple of co-main fights and if all goes well they rematch on the planned PPV next year, which will be a much bigger fight than this one.
What happens in that fight will determine the future of women’s MMA. If Gina gets smashed in a rematch women’s MMA is pretty much finished as a marketable brand. Gina could still be somewhat popular as a special attraction but it’d be more as a spectacle instead of as a sport.
by rabrown on Aug 16, 2009 8:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you are putting WAY too much onto Gina’s shoulders. If men’s MMA isn’t based around one fighter, why should female MMA? Yes, I know that it’s a still developing division, but a Gina loss only means that the division will have to develop slower and more organically, but these tautological statements like “women’s MMA will never draw because people don’t want to see” that come from hardcore fans only feeds the notion that we’re all a bunch of Neanderthals.
Yes, I understand that the arc of women’s MMA was enhanced by having a Poster Girl, but without a promoter who was/is committed to developing that division, that Poster Girl wouldn’t be taken seriously as an athlete. And since when does not being able to beat the champ completely destroy a fighter? I just had to hear about how Forrest Griffin was still a hugely popular star after getting PWNED by Anderson Silva. Why are his fights not “spectacle instead of sport?”
We HAVE to start thinking of the female divisions like ANY developing division, one that needs time and talent to really be sustainable as draws, but still worthy of inclusion under the sport’s umbrella. Men’s 145 and 135 had roughly the same level of depth and exposure a year ago as Women’s 145 and 135, and until those divisions make it to the UFC, Strikeforce is giving their divisions a better chance to catch on with fans than Zuffa is with theirs.
Cyborg-Carano was an anticipated and historic event, and for that reason, headlining the card with that fight was a smart move. But hopefully the next title match will be a feature bout that shares the spotlight with an anticipated fight from another division. It may be a year or two before a women’s fight headlines one of their cards again, but that’s OK.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Because history suggests that, with the exception of tennis, there’s minimal interest about watching women compete in sport. There’s always going to be an audience for it but Cyborg vs Plain Jane without the spectre of a rematch with Carano looming attracts minimal interest.
Maybe women’s MMA can defy the trend of every other women’s sport. It’ll be great if they can but I just can’t see it happening.
by rabrown on Aug 16, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because history suggests that, with the exception of tennis, there’s minimal interest about watching women compete in sport.
You’ve never seen womens indoor volleyball. We had a nice discussion about it during Strikeforce card. Definitely worth watching.
by mythbuster on Aug 16, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because history suggests that, with the exception of tennis, volleyball, gymnastics, swimming, gymnastics, track and field, and auto racing, there’s minimal interest about watching women compete in sport.
Fixed that for you.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gymnastics and gymnastics?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 16, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad…I meant to put “figure skating” in there.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would Brian Boitano do in a cage?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 16, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know the "common denominator" here ????
All the above sports listed (with the exception of auto racing because it isn’t a sport & has no real baring on the topic at hand) is that the sports listed have women with “girly figures”.. They still represent what the male’s perception of what their ideal woman should look like..
You noticeably left out the important sports that could compare to womens MMA such as womens boxing, WNBA etc.. Which does not appeal to mainstream America..
While we’re comparing other womens sports here.. Why do you know of womens auto racing ?? Danica Patrick.. Why ?? Because she’s hot & her image is enough to appeal to the male viewers that follow the sport… It brings cross over appeal..
Why did womens tennis finally get on the map ?? Anna Kournikova.. Why ?? Because she’s hot and her image helps sell the appeal to the male viewers..
Gymnasitcs ?? really ??? Those are all severely little petite cute things that all guys crush on.. Big difference in their looks than that of a Cyborg is it not ??
But what about the “real” women athletes of physical sports ?? Yeah not so much attention there is it ?? Gina was never a world beater.. She was a decent MT fighter with an above average smile and pretty face.. Did you all honestly follow womens MMA until Gina started getting promoted by Elite XC ?? I’m not that hard up about MMA that I followed womens MMA .. I’m positive 98% of the rest of you weren’t either…
by MMAuthority on Aug 16, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your Anna Kournikova point is just WRONG. Don’t confuse when YOU started watching women’s tennis to when women’s tennis became popular. As I said before, women’s tennis was popular before Anna Kournikova was even born. I’m sorry you never heard of Martina Navratilova, or Chris Evert, or Monica Seles, or Steffi Graf, or Venus Williams, or Serena Williams…all of whom were popular and mainstream before Kournikova.
And of course I left out the sports that people weren’t interested in seeing women compete in …that was kind of the point of me listing the sports that people WERE interested in seeing women compete in. (You really should pay closer attention when you read.) I’ll leave people and their tired WNBA analogies to themselves.
As for boxing, is it really surprising that a sport that has so much difficulty creating MALE stars might have difficulty creating female ones?
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can’t name one current gymnast or track and field athlete or women’s swimmer off the top of my head currently nor do you see them on mainstream tv unless it involves the Olympics. Those aren’t really very big sports in terms of mainstream public awareness, particularly outside of the Olympics. If it wasn’t for the Olympics would the general public watch them at all?
Volleyball does ok when it’s “Beach Volleyball” but then that brings us right back to the “it’s about how good the women look” angle, even then it’s not really much of a mainstream sport either. Seriously any sport where pictures of the players in their uniforms playing the game may not be work safe should really tell people something about that particular sport’s appeal. I can’t actually think of any professional volleyball players off hand (men or women), it’s not like it’s some kind of major sport.
I only know one female auto racer and that’s Danica Patrick (the GoDaddy girl), the reason she is famous is because she is something that is very rare in professional automobile racing, a hot chick. If you google an athlete’s name and the majority of pictures that come up involve them in their underwear or a swimsuit then that should really tell you something about why they are personally popular.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People wouldn’t know who Michael Phelps was if he wasn’t in the Olympics either. Also, if he were hotter, he’d be more popular.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He makes all the teen girls go aflutter. If he looked like Bobcat Goldthwait then I doubt he would be all over my tv set trying to sell things. How many athletes win medals at the Olympics and no one ever cares at all? That would be the vast majority of them.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey! i know Bobcat.. he is really nice… he was a new movie coming out too!
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Aug 17, 2009 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know he has a new movie coming out, it looks very interesting. Photoshop his head over Michael Phelps body and see if you can use it to sell things on tv to 16 year old girls though. Phelps makes his money as much because he looks good on camera as he does because he has a basket full of medals.
by who me on Aug 17, 2009 6:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Michael Phelps is one of the ugliest SOB’s in the world, my old lady can’t stand to look at him. Bobcat’s head on his body might actually be an improvement.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Aug 17, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All of the things you added are jokes. There is no women’s auto racing, Danica Patrick is a story, again, because she’s hot. Women have been drag racing for a while and she’s not the first to step into an indy car, no one usually cares.
The other things you mentioned are olympic sports. People care about every olympic sport every 4 years and that’s it. Interest in those sports outside the olympics is less than minimal.
by Phildo on Aug 16, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad, I thought that when the poster said, “minimal interest about watching women compete in sport,” that he meant that people weren’t interested in watching women compete in a sport. I had no idea that the Olympics didn’t count.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if all you have is the Olympics once every four years they you are falling into the “minimal interest” category.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps I’ve done a poor job explaining my view. All I’ve been saying is that I can’t see women’s MMA fights headlining big televised cards if Gina’s not involved. That’s not to say they won’t appear on the cards at all or that viewers will tune out in droves.
You’re right about the Olympics though. It’s two weeks every four years where we cheer on both guys and girls in a variety of sports that we then go back to ignoring for the next 206 weeks.
by rabrown on Aug 16, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They count, but only for minimal interest. It’s hard to get less interest than 2 weeks every 4 years.
by Phildo on Aug 17, 2009 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
She isn’t finished until at least a rematch.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
by spectaa on Aug 16, 2009 9:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can’t see Gina wanting a rematch. It was pretty clear halfway through the first round that she didn’t want to be in there with Cyborg. Gina got her ass kicked. She’s lucky she got out of there without more serious damage. For the last 20 seconds, she was lying in a prone position, covering up, getting jackhammered in the face, and she looked more like the victim of a violent crime than an MMA fighter with technique.
The only reason for a rematch, and the reason Cyborg would be happy to give it to her, is it would be a big draw and make a lot of money for all involved. But Carano can make money other ways, so I doubt she will be eager to get smashed again.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Aug 16, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
she looked more like the victim of a violent crime than an MMA fighter with technique.
(Esther Lynn photo, more here)
by mythbuster on Aug 16, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone want to put up a GIF of Babalu getting hammered by Mousasi, or Miguel Torres getting KO’d by Bowles, so we can see if they look LESS like the victims of violent crime?
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People seem pretty down on Cyborg as champ…
Am I the only one who found the happy cyborg couple completely endearing?
by WanderleiNoooooo! on Aug 16, 2009 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I did too. If only Mr. Cyborg could have half the in-ring success of Mrs. Cyborg, and Strikeforce would have something special.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cris Cyborg catches a lot of heat because of her masculine appearance. Everything I have seen from her, shows that she is a very nice, loyal, family person.
www.knees2thehead.com
Check it out!!
by BJJDenver on Aug 16, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
rec'd
(Esther Lynn photo)
If people saw more of shots like this, they would stop with the “she’s a man” stuff. Granted, she’s not the most attractive woman, but her smile last night lit up the place.
by mythbuster on Aug 16, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Apparently, only male fighters are allowed to have an intimidating “Game Face.”
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have met Cyborg a few times… and she is super nice… people are just assholes online, thats all
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Aug 16, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
… people are just assholes online, thats all
That really encapsulates a lot. Rec’d.
by Cannon Jacques on Aug 16, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
She really won me over last night. She was genuinely happy to have won and was very gracious in victory. She clearly worked very hard to get to where she is and I believe she deserves all the good things that come from it.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Aug 16, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as Cyborg’s training goes, it showed A LOT that she was doing leg locks on Gina and showed that she does indeed have some sort of an offensive submission ground game. One can tell that she worked hard for this fight.
by chrisbboy82 on Aug 16, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did she get hit?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Aug 16, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This should be green.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 16, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one more to green the photo … truly a beautiful face that lights up a room.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
by thetakeover on Aug 16, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just thinking that
Hearing her always referred to as the heel is really starting to annoy me. She seems very nice, very respectful, trains hard and is always smiling, but we’ve made her out to be the bad guy because Gina is hotter? I actually feel bad for her at this point.
by Shaun32887 on Aug 16, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that when you’re bigger and stronger than your opposition, people tend to root against you, and for the underdog. It’s that whole “David and Goliath” thing. If Cyborg fights more fighters that are her size, maybe public opinion will shift her way.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They like to promote her as the Goliath in those fights too, it’s not just public perception it’s the way they advertise her too.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that, but the amount of negative attention she’s taken for it seems amazingly out of proportion.
by Shaun32887 on Aug 17, 2009 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
She is a rather powerful woman from a foreign country with a nickname that causes people to relate to her as a unfeeling killing machine (and the “killing machine” part seems to be rather true). She actually seems to be rather pretty but it seems that nearly every picture/video I’ve seen of her is taken to give her a “Ivan Drago” appeal instead of trying to present her as “hot” or “like-able”. It probably is an undeserved reputation but it’s one her management seems to be happy to present to the public.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i still got internet problems. :(
i even missed the strikeforce event cause of it.. Im changing my intrnet provider and hopefully i’d get it fixed by tom so i can get back to watchng more mma and to posting at BE again.. So there, see you guys soon.. Tom i hope.. :)
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 16, 2009 10:04 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
You do have internet problems.
You do have internet problems.
Keep firing Assholes!
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.
by Ubernoober on Aug 16, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh shit double post.
im on 3g net on my phone, so maybe it gets fucks up or something. Haha.
And as a BE junkie, having no net is really fcking hard.. Im having major withrawal symtoms. Hahah.
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 16, 2009 10:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
You need something to help you deal with your fixation, like when people trying to quit smoking chew on pens.
Keep firing Assholes!
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.
by Ubernoober on Aug 16, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and yeah,
1 loss wont make gina “finshed”… She still has a bright future ahead of her…
Also, I really hope coker pushes through with the 145 tourney, and the Winner gets a shot at cyborg.
hopefully gina, and other talented female fighters would join and get more exposure from it..
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 16, 2009 10:11 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
So Strikeforce is going to have 7 divisions? Way too many title belts with not enough airtime to show the fights.
I don’t think Gina has the personality to make a true comeback. Some people loose (like GSP) and become stronger because of it. Other’s don’t. I think the reality of being a fighter sunk in for Carano yesterday.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 16, 2009 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Strikeforce’s champions don’t defend their belts as often as the UFC’s champs do…obviously. They plan on having 18-20 events next year, so there will be a LOT of demand for title matches and title eliminators.
As for Carano, I’m still not sure why people think that her taking a beating is any more shattering to her psyche than any male fighter getting wasted in the ring. Is it because you think she got un-prettied, and her delicate sensibilities couldn’t handle it?
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
20 events? I’ll believe it when I see it.
Some people are born fighters. Some are not. A lot of people (including myself) never really got the impression that she was a born fire. And typically those type of people don’t last once they take a good beating.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 16, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carano is not a draw because she was undefeated, she was a draw because of her charisma.
Keep firing Assholes!
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.
by Ubernoober on Aug 16, 2009 10:19 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Correction..
She was a draw because she is very attractive..
They “tried” to market her unbeaten record, but the bottom line is she is hot & that’s what drove the appeal..
by MMAuthority on Aug 16, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with this. Though she’s attractive, it’s more than that. She’s definitely got the charisma too. It always takes more than looks, even for women.
by Dooda on Aug 16, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does? All sorts of hot women are very famous without having a personality at all.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re only saying that because it’s true * couhparishiltoncough *
by mythbuster on Aug 16, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only one problem with your coughing attack
Paris Hilton is NOT hot
by soadtrails on Aug 16, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
You make an excellent point. I got caught up in the no personality thing and forgot the hot.
by mythbuster on Aug 16, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would though...
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 17, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would if he wanted an undiscovered STD.
"He built his whole reputation (as a) waffle house chef. They've been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes." - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Deo Wade on Aug 17, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What then, famous women are famous because they’re hot? Sure there are other pieces, but in this case, I think she has more than good looks (and lets face it, she’s kind of cute, but she’s not Hawtie McHauterson). And Paris Hilton isn’t famous only for her supposed (and overrated looks) she knows people, she grew up in celeb circles etc. It’s not like looks is a sudden ticket to fame.
If you take Chuck Liddel. I don’t know if it’s luck or what. He’s so damned famous, he’s mostly ugly, and listening to him speak is like listening to a sack of hammers pontificate their existence. It’s tricky to explain and it’s more than the obvious (talent, looks, luck, personality).
by Dooda on Aug 16, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Men look at women in magazines like it’s a religion and half the entire internet (if not more) is pure porn. Ogling women is just what men do, particularly young men (MMA’s target demographic is 18-34 year old males). Heck the whole modeling industry is based on looking good and being famous for it, we have made an entire industry based on shutting up, looking hot and striking a pose. Gina seems to be a great person but come on, she is hot and that is what gets the casual guys sitting at home attention. It’s not a bad thing it’s just how it works, if she looked like The Fabulous Moolah then she wouldn’t be the “FACE” of women’s MMA
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i disagree.
Gina is incredibly nice and people just gravitate toward her.
She will be fine.
i just hope she learns some wrestling.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Aug 16, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
charisma=sex appeal in this case.
I personally don’t find her very charismatic at all. I do think she has talent and is attractive, but the whole reluctant celebrity thing is wearing a little thin on me.
www.knees2thehead.com
Check it out!!
by BJJDenver on Aug 16, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So true.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 16, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do you mean? What if she’s just truthfully reluctant about it and that’s how she is? You want her to be different? Do you need her to act more subtle about her reluctance at getting attention?
by Dooda on Aug 16, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn’t matter how she acts, she is hot and that gets the attention of the MMA target demographic. There is nothing at all bad about being good looking, it is a blessing.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah the whole “aw shucks, I don’t know why I’m the face thing” was wearing thin on me too. I feel she should be out there accepting the fact that she is the face of female MMA and be promoting female MMA to the max.
by filipinomix2oo0 on Aug 16, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe she’s humble because she doesn’t want to be accused of being arrogant about her abilities, knowing she has so much more room to grow. To me, it would be like if Jon Jones was touted as the next big thing, he’d be humble in interviews and probably be slightly put off by fans saying that he could go in there and destroy Lyoto Machida.
Plus, the amount of inappropriate commentary that Gina has to put up with, while being expected to be amicable and good-natured, knowing that one blowup will lead to her bing labeled as a “bitch,” probably leads to a bit more unease on her part. Half of her laughter is nervous laughter, the kind of which I see from “nice girls” who don’t want to point out that they’re being sexually harassed.
Just something to think about…
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just my opinion here..
Gina is talented no doubt.. She was the focal point for womens MMA..
But in my personal opinion, I never thought Gina was that good.. It showed last night that she has major holes in her game.. She has no real ground game.. She gave up full mount twice without even fighting to retain position.. She actually “stood up” when she had full mount !!!! I think she is a “decent” MT striker for being a woman, but as far as an MMA fighter, Cyborg takes it 8 maybe 9 out of ten times.. Cyborg is the true definition of a woman MMA fighter.. She has solid striking, decent ground game..
I do however think that by Gina losing, it’s going to lower the appeal for womens MMA in mainstream.. Let’s be honest here.. The “only” reason it got so much attention is solely based on Gina’s physical appearance. She hadn’t really fought anyone “tough” .. It’s womens MMA & it’s going to have about as much appeal as the WNBA.. It’s great for the first couple fights, but after that it’s going to lose all appeal by the mainstream. Due to the fact that there isn’t enough quality women to support the sport.
Again, This is merely my own personal opinion…
by MMAuthority on Aug 16, 2009 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dedication to training
Those of us that have paid attention to Caranos post fight comments for her last several fights are noticing pattern here. Her training camps are “ok” and she doesn’t do the extra work. I’m a Gina fan for a variety of reasons, but if she wants to stay on top she’s gonna have to put in the work.
However I kinda feel this loss is a kind of weight off her shoulders. She’s been carrying the pressure for two years now.
by TheCava on Aug 16, 2009 10:57 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
if she wants to stay on top she’s gonna have to put in the work
his goes for any woman, if ya know what I mean 
My apologies to everyone :)
by mythbuster on Aug 16, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gina will be fine but women’s MMA has a long long way to go still. If anything this might help for the long run of building the women’s divisions. Instead of being the “Gina show” they will have to develop multiple contenders in multiple divisions to make it work. The sad fact is that women’s sports never do even come close to the level of men’s sports in the US, regardless of what happens there will be a limit to how far this can go. Gina’s popularity was getting them attention above what would be expected but that wasn’t really building anything as far as the sport goes it was just getting attention for Gina’s fights.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The sad fact is that women’s sports never do even come close to the level of men’s sports in the US,
Venus and Serena Williams disagree.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billie Jean King disagrees.
Fixed.
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Aug 16, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Her biggest win was against this guy, Bobby Riggs – founder of Riggs’ Pigs. He was 55 at the time.
by mythbuster on Aug 16, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have great careers but Roger Federer earned more in 2009 than the Williams sister’s did combined. Even where you find very successful women athletes the men still make more (many times by a significant margin). So you may think that Venus and Serena disagree but they are probably wondering why Roger Federer makes $30million + a year.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you may think that Venus and Serena disagree but they are probably wondering why Roger Federer makes $30million + a year.
Men make more because men play more sets per match (in most tourneys, I believe). Men play five per match, women play three. If women want to be paid the same, they should play the same.
Not to be sexist, but equal work for equal pay.
by mythbuster on Aug 16, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Federer makes more from sponsorships too, heck he probably makes more from sponsorships than he actually does from winning tournaments. In most sports it’s the sponsorships where all the money is actually made and in that area for some reason male athletes also make more. I am by no means saying that it is fair because I don’t believe that it is fair at all but that is just how things work.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, it’s commonly known that the Williams sisters play less than a full-time schedule, as part of their strategy to minimize the wear and tear on their bodies and extend their careers. Hence why their annual earnings are “only” about $15 million per year.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Venus and Serena only make 4 to 5 million a year off Tennis, the rest comes from sponsorship money (I believe Serena made 13 and Venus made 12 last year in total). In all sports sponsorship makes up the majority of money earned (Maria Sharapova’s lifetime Tennis earnings are only 12 million, she makes more than double that a year from sponsorship money). It’s not just MMA where sponsorships/spokesperson work is a big deal, it’s in all sports.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hence why MMA and Tennis are decent comparison points. However Roger Federer is an anomaly even in his sport, as only Rafael Nadal has come close to competing with him in like 5 years. It stands to reason that his earnings would dwarf that of any other tennis player. My point, though, is that if women’s tennis can balance popularity and athletic excellence, so can MMA. It’s something to aspire to, and it needn’t be as defeatist as these WNBA analogies seem to be.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you mean comparable in the fact that men still make way more than comparable women and still get more attention for their accomplishments too then yea they are comparable. The difference in this would be that the only women’s tennis player that comes close to making what he does primarily makes it on sponsorship money. The fall off in tennis (and all women’s sports) after Sharapova and the Williams sisters is drastic but there are lots of male pro tennis players (and even retired male pro tennis players) that make huge bucks.
Of course there is one very important area where the comparison falls completely apart, Tennis is very acceptable for a woman to play by the public, it’s a proper girls sport, women and combat sports has always been some kind of taboo as far as the general public goes. We aren’t just talking about a woman’s sport here we are talking about women prize fighters, it’s just not culturally acceptable to the general public. There are whole generations of Americans out there that will view women fighting as morally reprehensible and not at all a proper thing for women to be doing, this will include plenty of people who will sit down and watch men fight without it being an issue. I am not condoning that but it does need to be pointed out that that is out there, as much as MMA had a hurdle to overcome with that in general it will be way higher for women’s MMA.
by who me on Aug 17, 2009 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny that you didn’t mention the highest-paid female tennis player — Maria Sharapova — whose $26 million last year is comparable to Federer’s $33 million. You did say “never even come close” in terms of popularity, right?
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do know that she is the world’s highest paid women’s athlete right(no women in sports makes more money than she does)? You do know that the vast majority of her yearly earnings comes from Sponsorships not Tennis right? You do know that that is because she is absolutely beautiful right? You do realize that she is an example that brings us right back around to Gina being as popular as she is because she is a beautiful woman right?
I didn’t mention here because it was Venus and Serena that were brought up (I could bring up that Tiger Woods makes more money in a year than the top 10 female athletes in the world all combined) but thanks for bringing her up because she is a way better example of what goes on in women’s sports today. Maria Sharapova is the 49th ranked women’s tennis player in the world yet she also makes more than both Williams sister’s combined and no other women’s athlete anywhere in the world even makes 1/3 the money she does a year. It’s because she is hot as a firecracker. She is a perfect example of the state of what goes on in women’s sports in the world today.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And unlike that other tennis hottie, this one can actually play tennis.
by mythbuster on Aug 16, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Shamelessly Rec'd for the picture
But she is a monster on the Courts
"He built his whole reputation (as a) waffle house chef. They've been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes." - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Deo Wade on Aug 17, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
She was the World’s #1 Player in 2007 and 2008. So yes, skills PLUS looks are a powerful combination.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there is one female MMA fighter I want to see in Strikeforce (or WEC), it’s Megumi Fuji.
After people watch Mega Megu’s slick submission skills, then female MMA will get more respect when the casuals see someone with more than striking.
by timetosaygoodbye on Aug 16, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't she just need to show her skills?
Japanese will be fine.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
by spectaa on Aug 16, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so. It’s just that I fear that without the ability to do publicity and help promote her fights in the US, she might just fly under the casual fans’ radar.
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said before the fight…
Female MMA is like 2 teenage boys fighting – only yesterday one went through puberty and the other one didn’t.
headlocks? Falling into mount? getting up from mount? and these are the 2 best females… It looked like 2 chicks on the street fighting over blow.
Gina’s mainstream appeal:
People are crazy thinking a “fighters PR appeal” is the key. The NY TIMES didn’t make mma work. sports illustrated or espn didnt make MMA work….
Zuffa made MMA work with zero PR help. PR is only a small part of promotion.
Regarding Gina continuing:
In what universe does Gina have a probable chance at beating cyborg in a rematch? there’s your answer…
I think she will look at her other opportunities while she still has youth and a pretty face.
by mmalogic on Aug 16, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you exaggerate a little too much. It wasn’t quite that bad for me, though noticeably levels lower than male MMA, it’s also way way younger and less developed.
That said, it’s hard for me to envision Gina even getting close to winning this rematch. Every time she threw one punch Cyborg had a mad combination to counter with. Gina landed punches that didn’t even phase Cyborg.
by Dooda on Aug 16, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're probably not the two best females.
They were the most marketable due to previous media attention. Strikeforce in trying to make a go of the event led people that don’t know any better to believe that they were the most skilled. In a way, it’s hard to fault them for this. On the other hand, they’re now in a situation where they need to bring in other women, who may in fact have a claim to being most skilled, to fill their divisions.
I don’t know how big female MMA can be. I don’t think you can ignore the general difficulties which female professional sports have in gaining and maintaining popularity. I personally wish that the entire MMA community could be a little more honest about skill levels and the like. GSP may not be able to beat Lesnar in an MMA fight, but does that make Lesnar a better fighter? There are smaller women who are more well-rounded than either Gina or Cyborg. There’s a ton of work to do, but a more diversified portfolio of known athletes is the only way female MMA can really get a foothold. I don’t think that fans will be satisfied in the long-term with a couple of hyped women fighting smaller competitors. The addition of Marloes Coenen helps in this regard as long as Strikeforce can get across just how good she is.
by Cannon Jacques on Aug 16, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that the vast majority of casual fans have only ever heard of a couple of female MMA fighters (the two in this match) lends itself to the perception that every female fighter has to be directly compared to them. It doesn’t help that most people who casually watch the sport aren’t going to keep up with women’s weight classes or be able to tell the difference between a 145lb fighter and a 135lb fighter just by watching a fight or two, they are going to bunch them all together.
Of course for the casual male fan they are also naturally going to be drawn towards the hotter fighter because that’s just how men react when they watch women do anything. That’s something that just doesn’t come into play with male fans watching men fight.
by who me on Aug 16, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zuffa made MMA work with zero PR help. PR is only a small part of promotion.
THAT IS THE MOST MISINFORMED QUOTE I HAVE EVER READ ON THIS SITE!!
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Aug 16, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
LOL
I have to keep laughing at how pathetic you are coming off. Gina can never beat Cyborg, oh no, what will she ever do, she must run out of the cage and quit MMA forever now. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Aug 16, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least he sticks by what he says and doesn’t back peddle like some other people…
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 16, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Better to backpedal and be right than stand your ground and be wrong, I always say…
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would rather stand my ground and be right than backpedal and spin and quote and pretend and still be wrong.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 16, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the title fights
Should def not be 5×5min rounds yet.. At the rate they were goin last night both wouldve gassed by the third rnd completely.
I’m happy with myself though, got every prediction right, except I thought it wld be mousasi by sub in the first rnd not ko.. I think babalu had the same prob as in his 2nd fight with liddell, thought he could take a huge punch.. Mousasi didn’t even look impressed
by amadeus on Aug 16, 2009 11:50 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Anybody fighting at the rate that they were going would be a bit fatigued by the end of R1. They would have slowed down some in R2 once they calmed down.
Keep firing Assholes!
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.
by Ubernoober on Aug 16, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BJ Penn, until recently, often gassed 10 minutes into fights. If that a reason why title fights shouldn’t be 25 minutes?
by madiq on Aug 16, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Btw, the picture in the article is awesome. Nicely timed shot.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 17, 2009 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
does anyone else seem to think randy has special interest in gina maybe looking for a new younger wifey
by ldglass on Aug 17, 2009 4:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s baseless and classless.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 17, 2009 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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