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Frank Shamrock Discusses Nick Diaz, the UFC and More

20090313120756_img_5951_mediumPromoted from the FanPosts by Kid Nate

Shamrock gave his take on the Nick Diaz/Strikeforce situation.  From AOL's MMA Fanhouse:

Sadly, it's a big problem because somebody's out a lot of money -- Strikeforce/Showtime -- and you know, that wasn't fair from a professional standpoint. But you know, I'm not matching the fights, and unfortunately, Diaz has a strong name right now, and he has a lot of value to somebody. I mean, UFC has expressed value. We all like Nick, he's just a knucklehead. And hopefully, he'll come into his own because he's coming into his own as a fighter, but his maturity, I think, is 10 years behind that.

Never short on opinions, Shamrock also talked about his contentious relationship with UFC president Dana White:

I have nothing against Dana. I never really have. I just don't believe in the master plan of what they are trying to do, and I said that and they didn't like that and that's OK. That's a disagreement, you know? But Dana took it a step further and erased me from all the history, and have been, you know, very mean about it. And I could care less. I'm not going to fight for them because I don't believe in their business model. I'm going to do something else. That's business; that's my right.

It's hard to argue with Shamrock's assessment of Diaz.  Furthermore, his criticisms of Dana White and the UFC are certainly above the belt, and there's honestly some merit to his assertion that White conveniently left the notable accomplishments of Frank Shamrock out of the build-up for UFC 100.  Certainly, the UFC isn't obligated to include a competitor of sorts in its marketing.  However, because I don't see Shamrock and Strikeforce as major threats to the UFC at this time, completely freezing out Shamrock was unnecessary.  It only gives Shamrock something to gripe about, a legitimate gripe at that.

Maybe my perception is a bit distorted, but it seems as if some of MMA 's sworn enemies have taken a more civil approach towards one another.  Tito Ortiz and Dana White are buddies again.  Don't forget about Affliction's second coming as a UFC sponsor.  White's taking a softer approach toward Frank Shamrock; Shamrock is acting in kind.  I seem to remember Matt Lindland positioning (maybe hoping) for a UFC return.  Of course, Scott Coker and Fedor Emelianenko are definitely out of the running for a Dana White Christmas card... for now, anyway.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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It’ll be interesting to see how Shamrock rebounds when he’s back in the mix in December or January.

by Nick Thomas on Aug 11, 2009 6:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He might be over the hill. Diaz made him look like a clown

by cmcbeast on Aug 11, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Don’t forget Miletich and Dana being seen joking together on the Vlog.

I STILL poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Aug 11, 2009 6:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That has now been ERASED!

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 11, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The best 100 of the UFC was simply a long commercial for UFC 100. That is it. It wasn’t a history thing at all.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 11, 2009 6:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't believe you

And you’re not my real dad.

I STILL poop rainbows.

by Blackout612 on Aug 11, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Of course...

it was whatever the UFC made it. My only point is that, if you’re more or less labeling something as the greatest matches/moments from the UFC up to UFC 100, Frank Shamrock ought to be there somewhere. I’m far from a Frank Shamrock fan. I’d like to see a rematch with Renzo Gracie – I must always mention my displeasure with the outcome of their first fight whenever Frank’s name is mentioned. I just don’t think it was necessary to altogether leave him out of the UFC 100 stuff.

by Cannon Jacques on Aug 11, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The UFC doesn’t have to do anything.

The Baseball Hall of Fam doesn’t even include the All-Time Hits Leader, Pete Rose.

You mess with the establishment, don’t expect to get any nice treatment when it comes retrospect on your career….

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 11, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No shit.

I did everything by explicitly say that: “The UFC doesn’t have to do anything.”

by Cannon Jacques on Aug 11, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And yet, I’m pretty sure that his records count, and when ESPN Classic shows clips of old Cincinnati Reds games, there he is.

Plus, there’s the whole, “Baseball has a formal sanctioning structure that is transparent and objective” thing, as opposed to just getting on the commissioner’s bad side.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you go out and buy a copy of UFC Ultimate Japan 1, Frank Shamrock is still included on the tape. If you look up Frank Shamrock’s record it’s still completely in tact, if you look at the UFC website for event results all of Frank’s fights are still there. Does your entire point boil down to the fact that Frank wasn’t on a crappy SpikeTV special?

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not exactly. My main point is that those people who say that Frank Shamrock needn’t be acknowledged by the UFC because of beef between him and Dana do damage to the notion that UFC is the appropriate caretaker of the sport’s legitimate history and long-term legacy. Because there are so many casual fans who started watching UFC after the Ultimate Fighter, those fans are most likely to be misinformed by petty practices that marginalize the accomplishments and impact of the fighters before the current era, and if you leave the responsibility for informing those fans of the sport’s history to the present whims of the current leadership, you do damage to those fans’ understanding of what the sport means today, and will mean in the future to the next generation.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I can’t even remember learning about the NBA from watching a program. Or leaning about MLB from watching a program. I learned about it through friends, family, and reading about it.

Also, the early years have already been proven to be a shell of what competition is like today. Frank Shamrock never could draw a big crowd. He actually ducked Vitor Belfort, and never fought Sakuraba in their prime. He also ducked a 3rd fight with Bas Rutten. Even said he had “nothing to prove” by fighting Rutten a 3rd time, despite getting completely dominated in their 2nd encounter. He said that on Eddie Goldman’s Eyada show. If anything, the devoted fans of that era over hyped his true accomplishments. In the scope of the sport, he really didn’t do much. And his record isn’t great either.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 11, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I don’t know what you’ve learned or what you’ve watched, but I sure as hell never saw Bob Cousy, Walt Frazier, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, or Willis Reed play, and yet I know they’re all-time greats, and have even seen highlights. They had that whole “NBA 50” retrospective where they named he best players of all time, and there many of them were, being honored.

Baseball has its Old-Timer’s Day, and they honor the all-stars from years past. They honor the anniversaries of historic events. And, of course, when records are challenged or broken, they trot out the prior record-holders to congratulate the new guy. (Full disclosure: I never watched Hank Aaron or Roger Maris play either.)

Now obviously the UFC doesn’t have the decades of history that the Big 4 sports have, but like it or not, those are the yardsticks against which other sports are judged. Hell, even boxing wouldn’t be boxing if people didn’t put fights and fighters into historical significance, whatever the questionable ethics of the particular fighter. Some get overlooked by history, but not because of some conspiratorial imperative.

But anyway, I’ve digressed. If UFC makes Frank Shamrock’s accomplishments and records available, that’s at least part of their responsibility, and I understand why shills Goldberg and Rogan can’t be pimping Frankie MMA like they do Randy and Chuck. All that I’m trying to stand for is that, in the interest of the sport, the UFC stand a little bit above the fray, and try to present the historical record in a more objective and straightforward light, and if they can’t do it, they shouldn’t impede the efforts of the people and the entities which can.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s funny you should mention Old Timer’s Day. The Yankees have it every year. And isn’t it interesting that the all time World Series rings leader (Yogi Berra) didn’t show up to Yankee Stadium for years due to issues with Steinbrennar. He was treated like he didn’t even exist. That never changed the fact that he had something like 10 World Series Rings…

My point is, this type of stuff happens a lot in sports. It’s not like the UFC took his name off their website in the title history section. You can’t just talk crap about the biggest organization in the sport and expect it to smile back at you. Especially when it is obvious Shamrock only stayed out of the UFC to avoid fighting top talent.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 11, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Yankees suck.

There. Explained.

If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.

by Ozzz on Aug 11, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Your mistake is thinking that the things like this in all other sports are objective and straight forward, when they aren’t.

I don’t understand why people keep holding the UFC to some standard of greatness that no other organization or company in the world has ever been held to, it doesn’t make sense.

by Phildo on Aug 11, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

why is the UFC charged with keeping the history of the sport?

the only other sport that does this is the NFL, with NFL films.

They’re job is to make the sport happen and move it forward, if people don’t like the way they keep track of the history, they can do it themselves.

by Phildo on Aug 11, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you; I think he UFC shouldn’t be charged with keeping the history of the sport. Problem is, with their proprietary model, it’s difficult for third-parties to get access to UFC and PRIDE footage in order to compile an accurate record of the sport’s progression.

Furthermore, since the UFC does put out retrospectives, in order to tell its own version of the facts, it is already taking up the role of tracking the history, except in a biased manner. This gives rise to revisionism, and makes the narrative too dependent on the whims of one man in the moment. That’s no way to compile a historical record.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the winner gets to write the history.

That’s the way the world works.

There are plenty of things in sports that are dependent on the whim’s of the commissioner of the league.

How long/why someone is suspended or what type of basketball they use in the NBA is based on the whims of David Stern.

The date of Mike Vick’s next game is dependent on the whims of Roger Gooddell.

Pete Rose getting into the hall of fame is dependent on the whims of Bud Selig.

by Phildo on Aug 11, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Sure there’s a figurehead, but there’s a fairly developed system in place that the Commissioner has to adhere to. There are unions, there are appeals, there is litigation, and there is the media, mainstream and non-traditional, that holds these decisions up to scrutiny. In addition, as I mentioned earlier, there’s a fairly transparent regulatory structure in place, one that comes into play when Collective Bargaining happens, and one that gets ruled upon by the League Ownership or their respective Rules Committees.

You can oversimplify things if you want, but in the major corporate professional sports leagues, there are bureaucracies…and usually for a reason. Sure there are strong executives like David Stern and Roger Goodell, and weak executives like Bud Selig, but these men don’t wield absolute power — too much money is at stake.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the same is true for Dana.

It’s amazing to me how everything good that the UFC has done over the years gets blamed on the Fertita’s being rich and dana being their puppet, but everything that is bad is all big bad Dana’s fault.

Dana doesn’t have absolute power, but he has just as much power as the commissioners of every other major sports league, you need to stop holding him to a different standard.

by Phildo on Aug 11, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, when “making up with Dana” can get you reinstated and spoken about favorably, and “getting on Dana’s bad side” can be used to justify being frozen out of the promotion, whether true or not, that position gains a lot of traction on this here blogosphere. Perception is often reality, in that believing you have no power ends up leading to you not having any.

And don’t assume I cut commissioners in other sports slack — I don’t. I just feel better about Players Unions being well-positioned to fight for the interests of the players in the Big 4 sports, and figure that in those sports, they wipe away their tears with hundred-dollar bills. Plus, those sports aren’t fighting these daily battles about what the sport will evolve into in the eyes of the masses; when those conversations arise about other sports, I have fun with those too.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The unions do that, but that’s on the fighters to do that, not on dana.

It doesn’t change the fact that the commissioners wield just as much power as Dana does.

by Phildo on Aug 11, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I must consistently miss the part of post-game shows where the sports commissioners go randomly walking around locker rooms handing out money to athletes they like, and are impressed by.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who knows what the owners do with the players in private though.

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, the Owners I wouldn’t put anything past. They could be doing lines off the bare asses of hookers with the players, using hundred-dollar bills that they skimmed from illegal bookie bets against their teams, which they made using taxpayer subsidies garnered by giving reacharounds to local politicians.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes and the Zuffa heads are the equivalent of the owners. The equivalent of the commissioners would be the state athletic commissions that sanction and regulate the sport according to state law. In that regard MMA is a step farther along in legitimacy than the big three ball sports who run their own commissions in house.

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, one owner with 50 commissioners is a highly inefficient system. Better that there be one set of regulations and sanctioning that governs the system uniformly, yet is signed off on by all 50 commissioners.

Also, remember, those in-house regimes are always subject to checks and balances by arbitrators, the court system, and the national legislature.

That said, I can TOTALLY imagine Dana doing lines off hookers’ asses with Chuck and Forrest , using hundreds they skimmed from Station Casinos, after the two took dives against the Rashad and Jardine lines, while the Fertittas set up reacharounds for prominent state Congressmen to gain further sanctioning…with Loretta Hunt holding the video camera for the next vlog.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And if you have such problems with what the commissioners in other sports do, you shouldn’t be using other sports as your examples for how the UFC and Dana should act.

by Phildo on Aug 11, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh, what? I never said that I think commissioners are bastards, all I said was that they’re not perfect, and when they do things I don’t agree with, I call them on it. If we were having a conversation about the NBA Dress Code, or the NFL Personal Conduct Policy, or the Majors’ complicity in the PED epidemic, I’d bring my opinions into the matter, however, AlwaysRelaxing brought up the Major Leagues as an example, and I attempted to distinguish the example from the situation with the UFC. Then we spun into a side conversation where he mentioned the NBA, so I distinguished the NBA and UFC. Then the NFL was brought up…

So while I appreciate your attempt to keep me intellectually honest, you’ll see that nothing I said suggested that I thought that Commissioners in ANY sports were above reproach. In fact, because I EXPRESSLY spoke out in favor of bureaucracy and checks and balances, it’d be reasonable to suggest that I’m in favor of the same for a sport such as MMA.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tito was in the UFC for years even though him and Dana still had a beef. Dana says a lot of stuff as a promoter but when it comes down to business he would sign even Jerry Millen if he thought his company could make a buck off of having him. It’s not the UFC or Dana White’s fault that Frank Shamrock isn’t in the UFC it’s because Frank refused to even negotiate a return. Matt Lindland isn’t frozen out of the UFC because he ran them down and got on White’s bad side it’s because Lindland doesn’t draw and the UFC doesn’t need him (why would they need Matt Lindland when they have Hendo?). Josh Barnett wasn’t frozen out because him and Dana have some odd behind the scenes beef with each other, Barnett just wants too much money and he wants to do pro wrestling in Japan.

Don’t confuse Dana White’s public fight promoter persona with what actually goes on behind the scenes at the UFC, it’s still all about business decisions not personal grudges. The UFC signs the fighters that can help them as a company not the ones that Dana is buddies with.

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Can’t (or shouldn’t) argue with you there…

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think even he would draw the line at Gary Millen.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 12, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The UFC isn’t the appropriate caretaker of the history of the sport, they aren’t even the one’s keeping up with fighter records. You are on one of the appropriate caretakers of the history of the sport now. The information is available for free to anyone who cares to take 5 minutes to google it up. If TUF fans are misinformed about the history of the sport then it’s probably because they don’t care to know the truth anyway, that also happens in every other sport too. Look a lot of NFL fans couldn’t care less about anyone who played the sport 5 years ago more/less 20 and Hall of Fame inductions aren’t even headline news on sports networks. Who the heck watches old NFL film productions or cares about who won the World Series 10 years ago?

Fans for the most part live in the here and now, all that historical information is just for the hardcore fans who like to dig deeper and in MMA those people know where to dig deeper and what the history is. Sherdog’s fight-finder is more important to the legacy and preserving the history of the sport than anything that has ever aired on SpikeTV. Hell the UFC 100 was voted by fans, even if old Frank Shamrock fights were available to vote on very few of the fans would of known or cared enough to vote them onto the show.

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

their job

is to promote successful events, grow their presence worldwide, sign the best fighters whenever they can, everything else is just secondary,

you don’t talk crap against an organization and expect that company to just sit back and take everything on the chin, things don’t work that way

by theblade on Aug 12, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baseball is not transparent and objective. There were tests done to players in 2003 that were to never be released. And yet some of the names have been. Those players will have a very hard tim making it into the Hall of Fame now. Is that fair? Not at all.

Look, leagues fine players all the time for speaking out against a rule or even an umpire.

Frank Shamrock not only spoke out about the UFC President, he also is fighting for a rival company. If the NFL had a rival group today, they sure as heck would be diminishing the accomplishments of anybody who use to play for them and now plays for that other organization.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 11, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leagues fine players for speaking out against officials because they have RULES that proscribe the punishment for that transgression, and they have determined that criticizing officiating undermines the perceived legitimacy of the sport. Right or not, every participant knows the rules and the consequences of breaking those rules.

The PED testing program, as you know, was supervised by the Player’s Union, and due to oversight on their part, the results were leaked. That leak, as well as the breach of their fiduciary duties, will likely give rise to litigation on the part of players, and rightfully so. And if because of that, these players’ accomplishments will be scrutinized and belittled by the Baseball Writers, then it’s because the Baseball Writers themselves see fit to exercise their own judgment about what constitutes “Hall of Fame” level accomplishments. However, without formal sanctioning from the league, i.e., a lifetime ban, they’ll still be eligible.

And your statement about what the NFL would do is pure conjecture, so I’ll play that game too. Ricky Williams played in the CFL, as did Doug Flutie, and both still found his way into discussions of their NFL accomplishments, with many people, in the case of Flutie, taking pains to bring up how accomplished he was in that league. So If Michael Vick were to have gone to the UFL or the (now defunct) Arena League, I’m sure he’d get brought up, even though he’s not currently under contract with an NFL team.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Litigation won’t matter. Once the information is out there, it effects public perception. Baseball has basically screwed over it’s own players for the rest of their competitive lives. Which is far worse then Dana White leaving somebody out of a Top 100 show.

As for the CFL…. It was never competition for the NFL….. So I hardly see your point.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 11, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not nearly as up in arms about baseball players’ PED snafus as some are, because the more information comes out, the more obvious it becomes that the sport was laden with chemical enhancement before Baseball put in a drug-testing policy with real teeth. It was so widespread that pretty much all the stars of this era will either be collectively included or excluded, but amongst each other, they’re on similar ground.

And “competition” is all how you look at it, I guess. If another League plays football, and can draw from the same pool of athletes as the NFL, it could be viewed as competition, even though its success makes minimal impact on it. Kind of how DREAM and Strikeforce don’t really affect the UFC’s business at the moment, except by giving fighters a place to compete in if they are unable or unwilling to compete in the UFC, but still want to fight MMA professionally.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Transparent you say?

Is that why Congress got involved with the Steroids issue?

by Razreshat on Aug 12, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only problem with this is that Frank makes it seem like Dana not putting him in UFC 100 was the first shot in the battle.

Shamrock wasn’t in any of that stuff because of the shit talking he’s been doing for a while leading up to it.

by Phildo on Aug 11, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's true.

Frank has been talking shit forever. If he were a legitimate top middleweight, I could understand the UFC omitting him. He’s not. Diaz clowned on him. The UFC has plenty of video of Diaz getting beat to balance things out. My opinion is that they should have taken the high road and thrown in a couple notable Frank Shamrock moments just to give a good account of what’s transpired up until 100. I understand the arguments against it. I realize that they could have shown only Chuck and Randy fights in the build to 100 if that was Dana’s desire. I’m just saying that having Frank matches in the mix isn’t going to relaunch his career and make Strikeforce a serious threat.

by Cannon Jacques on Aug 11, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

something seems to have happened that has made dana turn the other cheek with lots of his enemies.

I bet if UFC 100 was this month Frank would be in it.

In the end, it’s not really that big a deal, the people who remember Frank know what he was. Some new fans probably missed a little with him being left out, but there’s a chance he’ll be in the next one around since cooler heads seem to be prevailing.

by Phildo on Aug 11, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

I certainly didn’t lose sleep over the ordeal. My guess is that Kid Nate had some bad dreams regarding the omission. In the big picture it’s not a factor. I just don’t think Frank Shamrock is much of a threat, and thus the UFC shouldn’t worry much about using his old footage.

by Cannon Jacques on Aug 11, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don’t advertise a competitor.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 11, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Frank Shamrock was IN THE UFC when he put together those “moments.” Whether he is affliated with the company or not today, that doesn’t undo what he did for the sport, and for the sport’s history. However, if the UFC wants to view things through the binary lens of UFC and “competitors,” it is only hurting the legitimacy of the enterprise, and inviting the pro wrestling parallels.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes but lets not act like Frank Shamrock was stricken from UFC history, your getting incensed because Frank wasn’t included in a shitty tv program on freaking SpikeTV (nothing says legitimacy like SpikeTV presents). Frank’s legitimacy is still completely in tact as is the history of the sport.

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nobody is

denying that frank was part of the ufc, surely nobody will deny the ufc the right to market their product and highlight certain events in their history as they see fit

by theblade on Aug 12, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brilliant...

rec’d

He was like 'You hit like a bitch.' I'm like all right. And I stood up and slapped him. I go 'Now you just got hit like one.'" - Kurt Pellegrino.

by Gunslinger20 on Aug 11, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Frank knows this too. That’s why he’s been staying outside of the UFC and picking and choosing his fights, guys he thinks he can beat. The funny thing is, he’s losing to those guys b/c he’s washed up when it comes to top competition.

by filipinomix2oo0 on Aug 11, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Frank can do whatever he wants, but he is full of shit when he says he has never had a problem with Dana. He has ripped on Dana time and again. Frank DOES NOT own the high ground any more than Dana does. Frank used to run videos on My Space calling out Dana. And he has called Dana Uncle Fester for years.

by Lynchman on Aug 11, 2009 7:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

It’s also funny to see guys like Shamrock and Lindland… Who has bashed the UFC and Dana White, kind of do a 180 lately and do basically no crap talking.

I think they see the direction the sport is going. The dumb money investors have left the sport. The UFC is one of the only options in town now.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Aug 11, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lindland should

accept the idea that he may never fight in the ufc again, and keep his pride intact

he keeps going around websites talking about wanting to talk to dana, wanting to start conversation with dana and how he’s not on dana’s speed dial etc,

matt: if dana hasn’t called you after all these years, TAKE A HINT

by theblade on Aug 12, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dana tried to sign Lindland for TUF 4, so he’s obviously not dead set against the idea of Matt returning. I won’t be surprised if he returns to the UFC eventually. Dana loves having guys around who he can use to counter the ‘bar room brawler’ image, and an Olympic silver medalist with political aspirations certainly fits that bill.

by Steve4192 on Aug 12, 2009 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea it really did get ugly from him for quite a while but I think a lot of it might of just been posturing by Frank (like the whole cut out of UFC history bit). Here is what White said about Frank Shamrock back in March of 2007:

Q: So it’s not true that you guys contacted him and tried to get him back?

DW: I’ve talked to Frank Shamrock many times. Frank Shamrock will lead you to believe that we’ve never talked and we completely have hated each other forever and everything else. He’s a weird guy. He’s a very, very weird guy. I can’t explain it. Frank is a weird guy.

http://www.cbssports.com/boxing/story/10050687

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oops I only quoted part, here is the whole bit about Shamrock:

Q: Frank Shamrock said in a recent interview I did with him that you called to try to get him back into the UFC soon after his win over Cesar Gracie last March. Is that true?

DW: Frank Shamrock is an idiot. Frank Shamrock is a self-promoter who really doesn’t care about anything other than Frank Shamrock.

Q: So it’s not true that you guys contacted him and tried to get him back?

DW: I’ve talked to Frank Shamrock many times. Frank Shamrock will lead you to believe that we’ve never talked and we completely have hated each other forever and everything else. He’s a weird guy. He’s a very, very weird guy. I can’t explain it. Frank is a weird guy.

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blame game between Frank and Dana aside, it seems like an obviously bad decision to leave guys like Frank and Tito out of the 100 Greatest Fights thing. Not bad from a business standpoint (I’m guessing it’s a pretty neutral decision in that respect) but bad in the sense that this sort of revisionist history nonsense cheapens the sport.

by JRN on Aug 11, 2009 8:13 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I doubt we’ll ever see Frank fight in the UFC again (too old and busted up), but he & Dana will probably patch up their personal differences at some point and open up the possibility of putting him in the Hall of Fame where he belongs.

by Steve4192 on Aug 12, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It seems like getting older really mellowed some of these guys out.

by VegasBatman on Aug 11, 2009 8:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I’ve always been a big Frank Shamrock fan. Ken could learn something from him.

And the more I read these fighter interviews, the more I think they are learning from the success of fighters like GSP. Nice guys no longer finish last.

by Huggies on Aug 11, 2009 8:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The mere fact that one man can “erase” a fighter from historical retrospectives is indictment enough of the UFC Business Model.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It’s not like they erased the fights like they never existed they just didn’t include them in their shitty SpikeTV special. The fights still exist, the tapes are still out there for people to watch and Frank’s MMA record is still completely in tact. Hell Frank’s fights are still listed on the (very crappy) UFC site.

Middleweight Championship
Frank Shamrock vs. Kevin Jackson
Shamrock Wins – Tapout at 0:16 – armlock

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=eventdetail.fightCard&eid=19

I think perhaps Frank is being very over dramatic about the whole “erased from history” bit. He wasn’t on a crappy UFC tv show, big freaking deal.

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Fair enough. I had heard that his fights weren’t on the website.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes Frank himself has been saying they erased him from all UFC history for years and years now and people have believed him for years and years without actually going and checking. See that is part of the real problem here, it’s not what Frank or the UFC does or doesn’t do it’s that people take sides and make their decisions based on that instead of actually looking into it. This isn’t the first time I’ve been in this discussion over the years.

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It should also be noted that the UFC website is absolutely terrible and shouldn’t be used for anything at all resembling MMA research. They can’t even keep things straight on guys who are currently fighting with them. Who ever runs that for the UFC should be fired.

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

^^^This. I’ve been on the UFC website before, and considered it a shoddy mess. I rarely return to it, nor do I rely upon it AT ALL for anything research-oriented. I actually find that regrettable, though, and let that shape my perception of what is actually there.

by madiq on Aug 11, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing is anyone who knows or cares about finding out something about MMA knows how crappy it is too. If they don’t they will find it out quick enough just how crappy it is. Someone did try and clean it up a year or so ago (it used to be comically bad)but it’s still sub-par. What got me is that they used to do killer websites for every event so they had somebody there who know how to do internet stuff but for some reason their own company website is just sad.

by who me on Aug 11, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL at the picture. That was hilarious. What an idiot.

by Meshuggeth on Aug 11, 2009 9:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

“Fuck you grandpa! Give me my WEED BACK!”

You don't look like a Tanaka.

by spectaa on Aug 11, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So much of the Zuffa defenses on this thread seem to boil down to “that’s just business and any other promoter/sports organization does the same thing.” And that’s all true. It’s business as usual, but business as usual sucks ass.

And while the Top 100 fights thing might have been “just a crappy SpikeTV show,” there are probably thousands of people who watched it and took it at face value. And it just bums me out that they could have been exposed to a more interesting and accurate history of the UFC at no cost to the UFC itself.

by JRN on Aug 12, 2009 1:03 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

“but business as usual sucks ass.”

Outstanding.

BOOSH

by Farthammer on Aug 12, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome to the real world, take a seat and enjoy the ride.

by who me on Aug 12, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Idealism is a beautiful thing. Don’t let the cynics change you.

by madiq on Aug 12, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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