Anderson Silva has NOT ended Forrest Griffin's career
by mctapout on Aug 10, 2009 2:34 PM EDT
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in response to FlyByKnight's fanpost:
I completely disagree with the thought of Forrest Griffin's career being over. Yes, he was completely dominated. In fact, emarrassed is probably an even better way to put it. He looked silly, outclassed and overwhelmed...and it was over almost right after it started. But you are forgetting something, and it is the reason he will still be relevant: Forrest Griffin is a fighter.
And when i say fighter, i don't mean it in the normal sense of the word. For example, Jason Pierce is not a fighter. After watching Alessio Sakara Saturday night, I couldn't believe I paid $150 on stubhub for a $50 seat to watch him pull his best Kalib Starnes - who i could also never call a fighter. Someone yelled behind me during the fight, "You spent 8 weeks preparing for this fight by practicing THAT?" My point is this: Forrest comes to fight. You won't see an entire arena watch a brawl in the stands in the middle of a Forrest fight, as they did Saturday during the Riley/Nelson fight. Yes, Forrest got trashed, but even when he knew it was happening to him, you didn't see him pull guard at the earliest rumor of trouble like Thales Leites.
Every competitor suffers from a legit loss in his career (sans someone like Fedor) and often times it is demoralizing. That is what makes sports, particularly MMA, so great. You can see what someone is truly made of by how they come back. Chuck Liddell came off two losses to beat Wanderlei in convincing fashion. Randy Couture came out of retirement after two demoralizing knockouts to Liddell and won back the heavyweight crown. Even Rocky Balboa came back from a devastating KO to defeat Clubber Lang (ha ha I know, worst example ever).
The reason people love Forrest Griffin is because of the way he fights. The crowd was by far the loudest of the night when his entrance music started. He does not possess knockout power or submission wizardry. As far as natural talent, he has very little. He's a workhorse who goes in there to break the will of men who think they want it, and he shows them he wants it more. That is why people love him. And that is why he will be back. His fight with Anderson is the supreme example of what happens when a guy who has to work for everything has an off night - it gets ugly fast. Hard work beats skill, except when skill works hard.
When Silva sent Griffin down to the canvas for the final time, at least he went down swinging. Also, watch the fight again... When he goes down, what part of his eyes rolling back into his head makes you think he was looking for a way out? The punch that put him down didn't look that powerful, but still, you go try and take that shot after several previous blows from Silva.
From FlyByKnight:
He'll never beat guys like Rashad or Rampage, which was still controversial, because he lacks the raw power and chin to be effective enough against their strikes...He'll never beat a guy like Shogun again because that was a fluke.
What is a fluke?
In MMA, a fluke is a lucky punch(James Irvin KO'ing Houston Alexander) or a bizarre injury (Patrick Cote destroying his knee trying to do plyometrics at the beginning of the 3rd round of his title shot). Standing toe-to-toe with the champ for 25 minutes in which you mount him and kick him enough so he cannot walk is not a fluke. Beating the Prince of Pride for 14 and a half minutes before strangling him is not a fluke. Go back and watch those 2 fights for the sole purpose of looking at the faces of Forrest's opponents. Though more physically gifted than him, Rampage and Shogun looked defeated. It was on their faces. Not a fluke.
On a somewhat separate note, Forrest did not do himself any good by running out of the octagon for the second time in his career. However unjustifiable the action was, for what it's worth many other guys have done this. LeBron James ran off the court and did not shake hands after the Cavs lost their playoff series. It doesn't make what Forrest did right, but people need to stop making it sound like Forrest is the only one to ever have done such a thing.
If Forrest comes back in his next fight and still looks demoralized from the Silva loss, then the career-ending talks can begin. But if you are going to declare this after one loss to the P4P king, you are smoking more weed than Nick Diaz before a fight.
Your life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond. I put my money on Forrest to come back strong. I doubt 4+ years of showing grit, heart, and determination will be washed away by one ugly loss.
Forrest is a fighter, in every sense of the word.
And that is why he will be back.
Anyway enough about what i think. Anyone?
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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losing is sad and heart breaking sometimes… forrest has shown he can come back from it. gauranteed the next guy he fights wont be like anderson silva, he’ll get his confidence back.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
Just look at Rich Franklin. He lost TWICE to Anderson Silva
And Franklin is still one of the top fighters out there and is still having very competitive fights. He did not lose as embarrassingly as Griffin, but Franklin probably has more to be demoralized about than Griffin by pretty much getting kicked out of the Middleweight Division. Yet, Franklin looks to be as good a fighter as he has ever been.
I think Griffin will be fine. As far as rankings go, he will still be in the top ten of Light Heavyweight. He is a working-man’s fighter who is the first to be at the gym and the last to leave. I don’t see that changing. Outside of Anderson Silva, Griffin has had competitive fights (win or lose) against some of the very best.
by chrisbboy82 on Aug 11, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Forrest is a fighter, as you said
Nothing more. He’s not really skilled in punching and more often than not is a wild man.
His career isn’t over but he’s probably never getting another title shot. The man has absolutely ZERO defense and that’s been the case for virtually all of his losses.
"And Joe for Matt Hughes, dislike may not be a strong enough adjective!" - Mike Goldberg
recd
forrest has made more out of hard work and determination than what most fighters or people in general can claim. i don’t see why shogun fans always bing up his acl’s, but fail to mention that forrest was injured as well before the fight (shoulder) and required surgery that kept him out for a long time. RAMPAGE? no mma fighter has reacted worse to a loss than him. he’s lucky (and rich) not to be in jail. none of his friends or family or anyone a zuffa mentioned him acting mentally unstable BEFORE the forrest fight, just afterwards. bottom line is, that these 2 underestimated forrest’s heart and they paid for it. as did their fans and forrest/tuf alumni haters who probably bet big against him. silva did not underestimate him and he won easily. there have been tons of fighters who have left the arena after a loss and never show up to post fight conference afterwards (bj, mirko, nick diaz, too many to name) not the best way to react to a loss, but it hasn’t ended anyone’s career. forrest will be back, probably never for a title shot again, but he was never suppose to be good enough to get their in the 1rst place, right? :-)
by bdw on Aug 10, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You're only as good as your last fight...
And Forrest should take comfort in that. If he comes back looking better than ever, people will be saying the Anderson Silva loss was the best thing that ever happened to him.
I think it was Joe Rogan who said that sometimes what guys need is to fight somebody like GSP or Silva just to realize that level of skill exists, and they can change their training accordingly.
On a somewhat separate note, Forrest did not do himself any good by running out of the octagon for the second time in his career. However unjustifiable the action was, for what it’s worth many other guys have done this. LeBron James ran off the court and did not shake hands after the Cavs lost their playoff series. It doesn’t make what Forrest did right, but people need to stop making it sound like Forrest is the only one to ever have done such a thing.
I hate when people do this. if it’s “unjustifiable,” then it’s okay for people to criticize it, right? If people are forgiven for it afterwards, that’s fine, but to ignore Forrest doing it when you came out against others doing it would be hypocritical. Also, I can’t stand when the defense for it is that “he’s really passionate,” because it implies that the other fighters, the ones who show sportsmanship, and accept defeat properly, are somehow LESS passionate. If he had stayed in the ring and cried, I’d chalk that up to passion, but running off and not making himself available to give credit to a superior opponent, not cool.
i didn’t ignore that forrest did that… simply said others have done it and received less criticism. he was still wrong and should have been there to give silva credit.
Sorry for the confusion…when I used “you” I didn’t mean you personally; I meant anyone who was harsh towards fighters for not demonstrating post-fight or post-game sportsmanship. If one was a person who was upset by say Lebron James not shaking hands with the opposing team, that person has a RESPONSIBILITY to be critical of the same behavior, even if it is done by one of his favorite athletes.
I don’t even understand the problem with him running out of the octagon. Who cares? It didn’t affect me in the least. Every guy who loses could do that and it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest.
by Razzel on Aug 10, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I think it would make MMA fighters look bad, and undercut the idea that they are “classier” than their boxing counterparts.
I agree, i didnt mind when Lebron did it, and I dont care that Forrest did. Its certainly not something that I condone, but I dont really see what the big deal is.
Am I the only person that thought Anderson was the classless one? He drops Forrest, and then knowing that Forrest is hurt he lets him up instead of trying to go for the finish right away. Obviously the point of this sport is to try and dominate your opponent, but IMO Anderson went the extra mile to embarrass Forest. I mean, he let him up knowing he was hurt so he could dance/showboat circles around him. Am I really the only one that is bothered by this or am I being overly sensitive?? I dont know, i just thought that was a big time dick move
by moopwontplay on Aug 10, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
overly sensitive
("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)
by mythbuster on Aug 10, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not bothered by it, but I certainly agree that Anderson was being a dick. It’s certainly not a unique occurrence, though. Anderson loves making his opponents look helpless.
I have to even wonder if Anderson is purposefully trying to embarrass his opponents. I honestly don’t think that he is trying to, but his fighting style and just how good he is just makes it look like he is trying to embarrass his opponents.
by chrisbboy82 on Aug 11, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Are u for real ? Of course he was trying (and succeeding ) to embarrass Forrest. Do u really think it’s normal for a fighter to help the other fighter get up ? Or to put his hands on his waist and wait , like an impatient school teacher or whatever the hell that was , for Forrest to get up?
Give me a break .
And putting both arms down and dodging Forrest’ punches ?
I don’t blame Anderson it was a fight and it worked – he completely threw Forrest off his game , but lets not call what he did ‘a mistake’ , it was on purpose
Yes, I am for real
The hands on the waist thing is something he has done in other fights, and something that I have seen other fighters do when they do not want to go to the ground and just waiting. There isn’t some specific way for a fighter to wait for their opponents to get up.
While it’s not normal for a fighter to help the other fighter get up, Anderson is a different type of fighter. He may (or may not) know that he is a better fighter or just extremely confident, but that does not necessarily translate into Anderson trying to embarrass Forrest.
Look, I don’t think that you are wrong, but I simply don’t agree.
Sucks to be Anderson
He’s either “boring” or “classless.”
People clamor for him to be entertaining, instead of fighting technical fights. So he gives them what he wants. And now he’s a dick.
What the hell.
by Shaun32887 on Aug 11, 2009 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He knows he’s the best and he shows it . He could be a little more humble , no one asked him to be that cocky . His choice anyway , but he’s completely responsible for that.
I for one, fkn loved it
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Aug 11, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Because staying out there for the announcement is what you are supposed to do. Give the winner their props and stand there and let them raise the other guys hand; give him the respect he deserves then you can run to the back and cry your eyes out.
Also still gotta wear that sponsor shirt.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Yep, that is part of a fighter’s responsibility too. Those guys pay good money for you to stand there wearing a shirt (and a hat) regardless of whether you win or lose the fight. Honestly I don’t think it’s too much to ask for a guy to suck it up a extra 5 minutes and finish up what you are supposed to do at the end of a fight.
Makes me wonder about that guy who stole Florian’s hat.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Aug 10, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well if Forrest violated an agreement with his sponsor he’ll probably get less money , so it’s between him and his sponsors not really between him and his fans .
As for the respect for Anderson – kinda hard to expect Forrest to respect Anderson after Anderson completely ridiculed him in that fight . I’m not talking about him beating Forrest Im talking about all the drama queen tantrums Anderson threw there , like someone made him fight a 3 year old or something.
Anderson Silva always fights like that, head movement is one of his big skills and he tends to let people get back up because he has such an advantage on his feet, that’s not him disrespecting anyone. Where are you coming up with drama queen tantrums from??
Im not coming up with anything , it’s just how I see things . I see one of the cockiest fighters ever in Anderson Silva . Can he back it up ? He sure can . But he still remains one cocky showboating sob. U can call him “extremely confident” if it makes u sleep better…
Rec'd to the max.
You hit the nail on the head- Forrest has the heart of a fighter and the fans will always love him for it. Just like Wandy. He will keep fighting. You also raise a good point about bouncing back from adversity. Anderson Silva has been on an incredible streak since getting worked twice in Pride.
Only suggestion: Everyone knows Fedor is actually the p4p king.
by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions
If by everybody you mean you and some other people.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
If by everybody you mean you andsomemost other people.
Fixt.
("you don’t like Brock" – helping Weobo out)
by mythbuster on Aug 10, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i would like to say...
both FlyByKnights’ article as well as yours are 2 of the better written fanposts in a while.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
RECD
For the sole reason you mentioned CLUBBER LANG!!!
So awesome.
"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, Kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 10, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions
In all seriousness...
I’m glad you wrote a response FlyByKnights article, I think you both pretty much covered what was going on in everyone’s head after this (no way around it) disappointing fight. From one end of the spectrum to the other…now it’s solely up to Forrest to show us who’s going to be right.
I voted “He will be somewhat successful, but never quite be the same” simply because…if Silva is the future of 205…what does that do for Forrest’s future?
"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, Kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 10, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
If, after the Silva loss, Forrest’s fiance has a talk with him like Adrian had with Rocky on the beach in Rocky III, then Forrest will definitely regain the LHW title!
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Aug 10, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions
Just imagine Forrest in Rocky’s place: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIXia5HP9RI
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Aug 10, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
In MMA, a fluke is a lucky punch(James Irvin KO’ing Houston Alexander) or a bizarre injury (Patrick Cote destroying his knee trying to do plyometrics at the beginning of the 3rd round of his title shot). Standing toe-to-toe with the champ for 25 minutes in which you mount him and kick him enough so he cannot walk is not a fluke. Beating the Prince of Pride for 14 and a half minutes before strangling him is not a fluke. Go back and watch those 2 fights for the sole purpose of looking at the faces of Forrest’s opponents. Though more physically gifted than him, Rampage and Shogun looked defeated. It was on their faces. Not a fluke.
You always here apologist going on about Shogun’s knee but you don’t see any of them bringing up that Forrest was also injured going into that fight. Sort of blows the whole “fluke win” angle all to hell when you point out that both guys went into it with major injuries. Fighters fight hurt, it just goes along with the job, yea it can have an affect on a fight but people need to stop using that as an excuse when their favorites get beat because it’s still just as much of a loss.
Forrest has had a majorly damaged shoulder for quite a long while. The injuries to his shoulder even before his fight with Shogun were exhaustive. You have never heard of it because Forrest never mentions his injuries, whether he has won or lost, after his fights. This surgery was a long time in coming. Everyone felt it was in his best interest to have the surgery now before fighting another top tier fighter. He basically fought Shogun with one arm. Trust me, Forrest wanted to fight Silva in December but that was not to be.
http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Forrest-Griffin-Set-To-Undergo-Shoulder-Surgery.html
well didnt really say that but hey...
he was the one in the middle of a lackluster fight – it was tough to watch… i know hes a seasoned vet but sat. night wasn’t the most interesting fight
I loved Forrest & give him respect for even taking the fight against
Silva, which in my mind he had no chance to win barring some crazy injury or lucky sub. But the thing that bothered me at the time of the fight & still today is how he just runs out of the arena. Forrest has always seemed to respect his opponents, even in defeat. But he disrespected Silva & the sport with his actions. I understand he was pissed/embarassed & many other emotions, but for me that was just a really weak move & has changed the way I view Forrest.
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
It was, in fact, a major factor in my above statement.
by jebushchrist on Aug 11, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
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