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Fickle Fans and Fellow Fighters Turn on Forrest Griffin

Forrestgump_medium MMA fans might be the harshest and most fickle in the sporting world. There is no better demonstration of the "what have you done for me lately mentality" than the way we have collectively turned on former favorite Forrest Griffin. For an example see the photo shop on the right which has been making the rounds in the BE comments, on the UG and the Sherdog boards.

Not all of the criticism has been mean or knee-jerk. There are questions about whether he was ever any good to begin with, Zak Woods:

Is Anderson Silva just that good or have we been inflating Forrest Griffin's status and abilities for some time? 

We always knew that Griffin's chin was not a solid rock nor did he have heavy hands but Forrest had reinvented himself into a tactician. None of that was on display last night. 

For the record Forrest Griffin is now 2-2 in marquee fights at light heavyweight (victories over Quinton Jackson and Mauricio Rua, loses to Anderson Silva and Rashad Evans). If we include the Keith Jardine loss than Griffin slides to 2-3 in fights against top competition. All three of those loses come via knockout.  

If we dissect Griffin's victories than they appear to be paper tigers as well. Griffin was the beneficiary of favorable judging against Jackson on top of Quinton's mental issues that became apparent after the fight. In the Shogun bout Rua was fighting on one leg due to an ACL tear and was still able to bloody Griffin though in the end Rua would be submitted in unspectacular fashion.

And BE reader FlyByKnight declares Forrest's career over in a thoughtful and even-handed piece, that is nonetheless, damning:

Whether one wants to admit it or not, Forrest Griffin's career is pretty much dead as we know it. His days as that one guy who helped bring millions of fans into the UFC are over. His days as that one guy who had his career slaughtered at the hands of Anderson Silva has begun. There's no shame in losing to Anderson Silva. None whatsoever. But, this loss stands out above all others. In one of the most bizarre, embarrassing, and highlight reel knockouts ever completed, Anderson Silva ended Forrest Griffin's career in essentially the same jaw-dropping fashion that it began. And it, quite simply, is a shame.

Star-divide

Piling on is the man Forrest Griffin beat for the UFC light heavyweight title, Quinton "Rampage" Jackson on twitter:

Picture_1_medium 

Rampage might want to check himself, considering that he lost once to Griffin and could very well find himself losing to Anderson Silva in the near future. The old Rampage could have been expected to work his takedowns to force Silva on his back, but the new Rampage that likes to box might find himself looking real bad against Silva.

I'm not even going to dignify the pernicious and wide spread chatter from the knuckle dragging set who insist on believing the fight was a work. News flash idiots -- a work benefits the promotion or the bookies. Anderson Silva was a heavy favorite, he was expected to win and the odds accounted for it. There was no killing to be made off Forrest taking a dive. Secondly, from the UFC's perspective it was a disaster and exactly the opposite outcome that they wanted. The fight seriously damaged the brand of one of their marquee fighters to the benefit of one of their worst draws.

The apparently false reports that he suffered a broken or dislocated jaw seemed to help his cause and many fans embraced that as a life raft for their sinking admiration for Forrest. But with reports surfacing that he suffered no such injury, it's not looking good for Griffin apologists.

Forrest Griffin is the definitive organization man for the UFC. He is beyond loyal to Dana White and that loyalty is a two-way street. Anderson Silva on the other hand is openly scheming to get out of his UFC obligations as quickly and profitably as possible -- his latest gambit is to drop his middleweight belt and move up to 205lbs permanently, even though he insists he won't fight light heavyweight champ Lyoto Machida. If the UFC falls for this transparent attempt to escape the champion clause of their contracts -- which essentially traps their champs into an auto-renewing contract until they lose the title or retire from MMA -- I'll be shocked.

In the meantime, Forrest was certainly ill-served on a number of fronts -- by his own terrible game-planning (or failure to implement a game plan), by Joe Silva and Dana White he apparently seriously over-rated his abilities to give Anderson Silva a tough fight, by the fans and most of all by his own antics during the fight when he visibly gave up and charged chin-first into the third and final knockdown and then ran from the cage.

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I'm not too worried about the Anderson Silva angles in this.

If he wants to move up and wreck LHWs until his contract is up, let him. I’m a huge fan, but I don’t want to see him in fights like Cote or Lietes ever again.

On the Forrest issue. I don’t want to pile on, and while I find his flight from the ring very strange, I’m going to wait to form an opinion until he himself talks. Too often in MMA you see vastly differing accounts on an issue in the immediate aftermath of an event. I wouldn’t be totally suprised to see the injury situation revisted several more times before we truely know what the hell was going on.

by Razreshat on Aug 10, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Stephan Bonnar

was the best indicator of how Forrest was going to do in this fight. Two guys who were on the same level. Each dropped their last two fights in embarrassing fashion. Its the TUF guys getting built up too fast via favorable matches.

by ryanwk628 on Aug 10, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

right right

but forrest had a change against them stylistically. A Silvia? No way. Shad did what Rampage would have in a rematch, and I think the Shogun fight goes the other way without a knee injury. Im not knocking the guy, but 4 is really high.

TUF gets these guys great exposure, but also gets them way over hyped. The same thing happened with The Contender… most of those guys (with the exception of Bika) got wrecked. The UFC puts them in good fights because they have name recognition and its what the fans want, but it may be a little too much.

by ryanwk628 on Aug 10, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agreed with this sentiment until he beat the #1 fighter at LHW twice in a row.

by VegasBatman on Aug 10, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly Tonley!

Spider, ’Shad, Page, Shogun, Tito were all supposed to beat Forrest. I think he did great to get wins off of 2 of those.

and dont forget Bonnar (2), Jardine, Severn, Horn, Monson, Fulton etc…. every fight Forrest takes is tough.

He know he’s not the most talented, but he brings his lunchbox to work and puts in his hours.

A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.

by MMArazorback on Aug 10, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

which is why we all like him, he is a blue collar fighter. But that doesn’t change the circumstances around the Shogun/Rampage victories

watchkalibrun.com

by Zak Woods on Aug 10, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

People need to stop with the TUF shit.

Being on TUF doesn’t make you a can and it doesn’t negate everything you’ve ever done before or after. Some people get a little more exposure than they would have otherwise, but Forrest beat the #1 LHW in the world in 2 consecutive fights, that has to count for something.

by Phildo on Aug 10, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sure

but if you were that good (a projected top 10 guy) you wouldnt be put on the show, you would be signed right away. Even if you do win, you have to use that exposure to get in with the right people and step your game up (ken flo) because its a different level when you get to the UFC.

by ryanwk628 on Aug 10, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But they did that.

There’s no reason to bring up the fact that they were on TUF anymore.

When he was on TUF he wasn’t that great, but he (and Kenny) have grown as fighters, beat everyone who was put in front of them, and worked their way to the top of their divisions.

Him being on TUF doesn’t change the fact that he beat the #1 guy twice. This is the 4th match in a row that Forrest was supposed to lose, proving your “favorable opponent” line as useless.

by Phildo on Aug 10, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

pretty sure hes 2-5 in fights hes is supposed to loose. One of those, the guy had a knee injury. The other was Rampage so you never know whats going on in his head. The guy has heart, and while he may have top 5 popularity, he is no where near top 5 talent.

I believe that just as much as Anderson showed his brilliance, Forrest was exposed.

by ryanwk628 on Aug 10, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point. Nor was Forrest supposed to lose the Jardine fight. That fight was supposed to be his “gimme” fight that would position him for a title shot.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

At this point, you’re just being dense.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 10, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats what she said.

by ryanwk628 on Aug 10, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

While I have never been a fan of Forrest, always thought he was vastly overrated, it’s certainly disappointing, and somewhat confusing, to see how the guy has apparently chosen to handle this mess. He’s been a stand-up dude, almost honest to a fault. This all seems very out of character.

Or… maybe we just don’t know Forrest as well as we thought.

I specializes in grammar fail.

by a tommy point on Aug 10, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I've always respected Forrest for his hard work.

He has always seemed to be getting the absolute most out of some less than stellar natural talents. However, that can only get you so far and eventually you run into someone who is both just as hard working AND blessed with amazing talent.

by Razreshat on Aug 10, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"News flash idiots -- a work benefits the promotion or the bookies."

News Flash for you: This did benefit the promotion.

First, let me establish that I personally do not think Griffin took a dive. HOWEVER, for all you people to get on here and say things like “everyone who thinks he took a dive is an idiot/moron/”birther/etc." just shows your closed minded-ness on anything that relates to Anderson Silva (such as how he cannot beat Lesnar, Fedor or Machida). Silva’s win was a HUGE benefit for the UFC. This is the same UFC who just failed to sign the #1 fighter in the world, and it was very public. The only person whom fans even consider in the same breath as Fedor is Anderson Silva. What better way to transition away from failing to sign Fedor than to have your only comparable fighter light someone bigger than him up on a major PPV? Now the hardline-UFC fans can say “see, we didn’t need Fedor anyway. We have Anderson Silva”.

Is that what happened? Probably not. If someone made that arguement, are they a “moron”? Definately not. Disagreement does not equal stupidity nearly as often as people like to think.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Break given.

I think that anyone that thinks Anderson Silva could hang with Fedor or Lesnar is an idiot, but I’m going to at least hear their point and not actually call them an idiot.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point is that MMA just doesn’t have a history of this type of ridiculous behavior. Works don’t happen. So, it’s pretty idiotic to think they would be happening, especially in the UFC.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, there is the small matter of PRIDE.

dont get me wrong, forrest got beat for real. that fear and embarassment was legit.

by judonerd on Aug 10, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How much does forrest get paid for a fight? He made $100K against Evans. If he went online and bet $500K on Silva and lost the fight, he would DOUBLE his income. Again, I don’t think he did that, but it is definately not a stupid idea. There is zero chance that people don’t do that in the MMA world. They just don’t get busted. They definately do it in all other professional sports.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arent there laws against betting on yourself? Don’t you think 500 grand would look suspicious on a tax return? Something tells me Forrest isn’t particularly a genius when it comes to laundering money.

by Amsterdaam on Aug 10, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Griffin got implicated, he’d be in DEEP shit. And it would hurt the sport badly.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously it would be a stupid thing to do, but that doesn’t mean it is “idiotic” to think it may have happened.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s my opinion. I think it’s “idiotic” to think it may have happened. Agree to disagree, end of discussion.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean, you can't act like this doesn't happen all the time.

We could go on and on all week listing all the sports figures that risk their careers doing really, really stupid stuff (Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Mike Vick, Plaxico Burress, Mike Tyson, etc, etc, etc). Some get caught. Some don’t. It still happens, though, and to think it can’t happen in the UFC…THAT is “idiotic”.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pete Rose is the only one who compromised the integrity of the sport itself.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

right. The point is that they all endangered multi-million dollar careers. Was it stupid and rediculous? Of course, but they still did it. So when people say “that’s idiotic…why would he do that” – it doesn’t matter why. People take stupid, unnecessary risks all the time. If someone suggests Forrest might have done this as well, how can you call them an “idiot”?

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

(not you personally…. “you” as in the original fanpost)

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but you started by arguing that a “work” would benefit the UFC. Sure ANY fighter could do something stupid, but for Forrest to jeopardize the integrity of his entire sport while in the best of graces of the most powerful man in said sport would be COLOSSAL stupidity. So again, while it could be argued that Forrest Griffin is Just That Dumb (although that would be fighter-bashing on a high level, and borderline libel), it stretches limits of logic to argue that the promotion was in on it, which you originally attempted to do.

So am I correct in assuming that it is no longer your position that it is in any way likely the fight was a UFC-sanctioned “work” or “dive?”

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

1. Unless you get caught, laws don’t mean anything.
2. 500K would go on his tax return. It would only show $100k of winnings, plus it would be spread across the tax year. He makes that much each fight, so no, it would not look at all unusual.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, they wouldn’t catch you that way. What if his friend spills the beans?

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Forrest Griffin wouldn’t walk up to the odds table and place a bet on Anderson Silva. That would be a huge no-no, and he’d be on the cameras. He’d have to use a friend to place the bet.

What happens if he uses a friend, the friend spills the beans later to a media outlet. Then he’s really fucked.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, this would be a really stupid thing to do, but there are a lot of people that do reallyl stupid things, so it is definately a “possibility”.

Just get on Bodog or somewhere and max-out. Create multiple accounts if you need to.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This was in response to your tax return theory. Technically, it could go unnoticed as you said, but if a friend ratted him out for money from a paper or something… he’d be screwed. I understand it’s stupid, but I was going off your other comment.

And you can’t bet $500,000 online through Bodog. There are max-bets online. He’d have to have an assload of accounts.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

right…I’m just saying you don’t have to bet in person.

And if someone Narc’s on you, they aren’t really a “friend”.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but if some major paper got a tip and offered you 100k to spill, some people would do it.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

absolutely

of course they would. That’s how people get busted.

I’m not saying he wouldn’t probably get caught, or that it would be a good idea. I’m just saying that lots of sports figures do stupid crap like this all the time, and for some people to suggest Forrest might have done it is definately NOT rediculous.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And if someone Narc’s on you, they aren’t really a "friend".

See: Vick, Michael

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly. Why would he do somethin g that risks his entire career? It doesn’t matter…he still did it.

therefore, someone doing something really stupid is not a rediculous idea.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL, no man…

Vick had friends rat him out, that’s what he’s referring to.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just nevermind, I can’t keep explaining things.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude, Forrest gets PPV % for being part of a main event. You think Forrest is risking his potential title shot, PPV % pay day, and career so he can win 100k whereby if anyone finds out he’d end up in jail. Yes, I think anyone who think this is “idiotic.”

by cyph on Aug 10, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Didn’t Evans make it well known that he bet a good chunk of change on himself vs machida. I know he was betting on himself to win, but it did not sit well with me

by kanodogg on Aug 10, 2009 12:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

there is nothing wrong with betting on yourself.

I see no reason at all why anyone would have a problem with it unless you are just completely against gambling.

by Phildo on Aug 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know I’d be much happier with that than him betting on the other guy.

by Cunny on Aug 11, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just because something’s never been made public doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Aug 10, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve seen a lot of Hong Man Choi fights in MMA and K-1. He is pretty much the closest thing you can get to a fix w/o actually committing a crime.

by toxic on Aug 10, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He isn’t a fix. He’s immensely huge and slow. Hence why almost anyone can beat his ass.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Jose canseco would tend to disagree

by kanodogg on Aug 10, 2009 12:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Jose also never fights anything but celebrity boxing.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

do you happen to know the bet line for canseco/HMC?

by TyTy on Aug 10, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you for restating exactly what I said so that stupid people can understand it.

by toxic on Aug 10, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If people actually think Griffin took a dive, they are idiots

I would call them cynical. Stupidity may emerge from the actual argumentation. It’s a very close call :D.

You don't look like a Tanaka.

by spectaa on Aug 10, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

now that's

fighter bashing; i dislike forrest but all this talk about him taking a dive is stupid

by theblade on Aug 10, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why is it so rediculous??? Coleman took a dive and he was By far, a lot bigger of a star in the US and Japan at the time, Coleman/Takada, Kimbo/Cantrell, imagine theres more, to say that there is NO way is just idiotic and closemindness. Why the hell do you think would have happened or Dana would have done if Griffin went out and absolutely Destroyed Anderson. UFC and Dana have been hyping and Pushing Silva as the greastest fighter, p4p king of all time. If that illusion were to have been destroyed, there could/would have been an incessant amount of trouble for Dana. Just because someone doesnt get caught, doesnt mean that they would/couldnt/dont do wrong things. Dana isnt exactly the Angel alot of you bloggers make him out to be. Just sayin….

How do you Know where Im at? If you dont Know where Ive been...Understand where Im coming from??

by Chiggs on Aug 10, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We know Dana's no angel.

Had Forrest won, Dana would have a marketing gold mine – first TUF1, then dethroning the #1P4P? Forrest would have laid two golden eggs. Win-win for the UFC.

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Aug 10, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus, coming off a loss, people would be intrigued by his next Middleweight title defense, because people would think he had a chance to win.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only way Dana could have lost IMO would have been a boring decision victory for Silva.

by Cunny on Aug 11, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there is a huge difference between Japan and the US

in terms of what is acceptable and what is not, but you’ll note that PRIDE’s shady dealings ultimately put them out of business.

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by Kid Nate on Aug 10, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Silva v. Griffin was signed well before the Fedor mess. Any possible benefits from the outcome are purely by accident.

by judonerd on Aug 10, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That’s not how it works. In college football, 1-AA teams routinely job to 1-A teams, and it is not anywhere in the contract. When it was signed is irrelevant.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea what you just said.

by judonerd on Aug 10, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just refueted your point.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you restate it in english for my benefit?

by judonerd on Aug 10, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you are going to throw a game/match/etc., you do not write it in the agreement. Therefore, the date the agreement was signed would be irrelevant. Dana could have come to Forrest last Monday and been like “hey buddy….you like working here, right? I have a favor to ask……”

Again…he probably just got his butt kicked.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

gotcha. i dont follow football.

by judonerd on Aug 10, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think he took a dive, but people seem to be disregarding the “best against himself” angle which is certainly plausible.

Again, I don’t think anything of the sort happened, but it’s prizefighting.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Aug 10, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly. That probably didn’t happen, but the idea certainly is not “stupid”. It happens all the time.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And has HAPPENED at least a couple of times already in MMA…theres no disputing that at all. Once again, Dana can be pretty shaddy himself me thinks. He aint no Don King but, ya never know, he has hyped the sh!t out of Anderson as P4P and wouldnt look to good with egg on his face had ‘his’ P4P king be destroyed in short fashion. All kinds of implications would have comeout if got ktfo’d

How do you Know where Im at? If you dont Know where Ive been...Understand where Im coming from??

by Chiggs on Aug 10, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you mind explaining what “best against himself” means?

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, “best” = “bets”

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks. Lack of editing on comments is the death.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Aug 10, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bet against himself at -330?

That just doesn’t make sense with any sort of risk/reward thinking.

Just on the bet, to make any significant money, it wouldn’t be worth the risk that he catches Silva or Silva’s knee randomly blows out right after the fight starts.

Even after that, the other consequences. He gets caught taking a dive and it’s over. The amounto f money he would lose would be ridiculous. Him taking a dive because he bet on himself is not plausible at all.

by Phildo on Aug 10, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Depends what the max bet from the house is…

Technically, he could have thrown down 500,000 on Silva and used a friend.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So to win 132 thousand dollars you risk your entire career?

by Phildo on Aug 10, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He career could be at an end anyway according to one of the fanposts. :)

Nobody ever said it wasn’t a really stupid thing to do. It is a perfectly rational arguement, though.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah… according to a fanpost.. it’s over. How is that even a basis for argument?

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was making fun of the fanpost.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can’t take it as funny when you say “He career”

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok. If you are going to split haie.rs over fat-fingering keys on a laptop or BE’s lack of options for editing, we’re done here.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It didn’t come off as funny at all. I knew what you said, but I don’t know… I can’t tell if you’re joking or not.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m joking that Forrest’s career is over. He might be a gatekeeper from now on, but his career is def. not over.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, that’s the consensus view.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m just saying… he could do it.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he could have also walked into the cage, took a shit, and thrown at Anderson Silva.

Just because something can happen doesn’t always make it plausible.

by Phildo on Aug 10, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not probable does not equal “stupid”.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously. someone might as well jump in and say “Anderson Silva fights on PCP and has been beating all of his drug tests”. Is that possible, yes? Would it be a stupid excuse brought out by someone clearly attempting to deflect attention away from what was an amazing performance by Silva? Also yes.

"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn

by Day Man on Aug 10, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

^this. Anyone pushing this “Forrest took a dive” bullshit is an idiot.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 10, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

And why are you arguing anything? I simply said what could happen.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leland Roling not like P4P is a stupid concept.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 10, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not going argue it because I don’t think it happened, but it’s not implausible.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Aug 10, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly. Only favored fighters would risk it to take a dive.

by Amsterdaam on Aug 10, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you suggesting that Dana White it not at least a borderline lunatic?

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL, first of all… you need to fix your broken English a bit, man. I can’t understand some of the grammar differences.

Secondly, Dana White isn’t lunatic enough to endanger their company.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think he is either. I didn’t think Mark McGwire was a lunatic, but I’m pretty sure he endangered his career and got away with it. The point is just that it is not “rediculous” to suggest it might have happened.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he might not

be a lunatic, but kissing tito on the lips? YUUUUUUUCCCCCCCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and i’m a big fan of dana !

by theblade on Aug 10, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is ridiculous. If Dana White gets busted because someone overheard him or something… we’re talking about a billion dollar business going down the drain. I could see Forrest betting on Silva or something like that, but Dana actually orchestrating it… I can’t believe it. Why even do that when on paper, it looked like a crushing win for Silva before the fight even started.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but that’s not really comparable.

For the UFC to take a business model that is currently growing at the rate that it is, and tinker with it in a way that might jeopardize that growth, the potential benefit needs to FAR exceed the potential risk. So if the UFC is willing to potentially destroy over 200 million dollars in profit over the next 5 years while they rebuild their rep, they’d need to think that they could potentially gain 250 million dollars over that same period. And I don’t think that the outcome of one fight can be that important.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Think what you want.

If people didn’t do really, really stupid things, nobody would be in jail.

It doesn’t matter. It didn’t happen.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just listen to some of the rediculous things that come out of his mouth.

I’m not taking away from him….he did build up the UFC.

by P4P is a stupid concept on Aug 10, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

guys who know what they are doing, can set up fighters to loose. Matchmakers know styles make fights and Forrest had no chance. He was not going to muscle Silvia because he would never get close enough. He was fed to Anderson to instantly make Anderson a relevant 205 guy.

Anderson just beat the #4 LHW! albeit an over hyped #4 who had a lot of luck on his path to the title. Its like the Cardinals and the Steelers, one is a perennial contender, the other played hard, had some good breaks and had a good run. Are they going to repeat every year? Doubt it.

by ryanwk628 on Aug 10, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kinda like Pride and Coleman/Takada???? And who is saying its only been one fight. Once again, highly unlikely that is the scenario that happend, but its not so farfetched to think its never happened or will ever happen again either.

How do you Know where Im at? If you dont Know where Ive been...Understand where Im coming from??

by Chiggs on Aug 10, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But comparing PRIDE and UFC is like comparing apples and oranges — sure they’re both refreshing fruit, but you can’t substitute one for the other in your recipe.

PRIDE grew out of the pro wrestling tradition, where works were more likely to happen. Zuffa-era UFC tries to be a beefed-up version of boxing, based around Vegas, and the NSAC approach, with legitimacy paramount. Casino owners participating in a fixed fight would not only kill their business model, it would subject the entire leadership structure to criminal, civil, and regulatory liability. Again, if it were to happen, it better be with over a BILLION dollars at stake to be worthwhile.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Excellent analogy and perspective, well said and points taken :)

How do you Know where Im at? If you dont Know where Ive been...Understand where Im coming from??

by Chiggs on Aug 10, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I call bullshit. We as fans are free to comment if we believe a fighter quit in the ring, or behaved in immature or unsportsmanlike fashion. If you disagree you are free to state your piece. The same characteristics that lend a fighter to be lauded MUST, if displayed in reverse, give rise to fighters being decried. That’s how it works.

Now can one say that we’re being unfair and/or hypocritical? Of course, but I don’t think this is the case here. Sean Sherk was made fun of for running around Vegas after losing to Edgar, and “Run Forrest Run” is a joke that writes itself. Sorry if Forrest fans can’t take a joke.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I didnt call bs on sherk running out either. Emotions run high in fighting. And I have no preference for/against Griffin. Im a Silva/Machida/Maia/Shogun nuthugger personally.

by judonerd on Aug 10, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

let's put things into perspective here,

one of those fighters was basically fighting on 1 leg; rampage on the other hand had been training at a gym whose manager he’s called a “con artist” and a “thief” to my recollection

by theblade on Aug 10, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fuck perspective, let’s look at reality.

One of them tapped, the other one lost.

by Phildo on Aug 10, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

and the reality is

shogun was fighting on 1 leg,

also, not taking anything away from forrest, but that decision over rampage is definitely questionable, imo

also, you can spell out the “f” word, and nobody got on your case?

i did that a couple of days ago, without the U, and i got a warning when i logged on

by theblade on Aug 10, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We’d prefer that you limit your use of profanity when possible, but it’s not such a major issue that you’re going to get banned for dropping the occasional f-bomb.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 10, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless you spell it wrong, in which case Richard will ban you for life.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 11, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think people are making too much of the fact Forrest got his ass kicked. Forrest said himself before the fight “Anderson Silva makes some good fighters like Rich Franklin and Dan Henderson look really bad”. I’m not exactly sure what Forrest’s strategy going into this was, but if he followed his game plan and it was “exchange with Anderson Silva in the middle of the ring” I’m not thinking it was such a good plan.

I guess Forrest could have looked better if he’d fought a purely defensive fight like Leites or Cote. He’d at least have survived a bit longer. However, there certainly seemed to e a lot of presure for him to take the fight to Silva after the unhappiness with the previous fights. To the extent he was buying into the need to take the fight to Anderson that wasn’t likely to go well for him.

If you are going to strike with Anderson I think you need one punch knock out power. Maybe Rampage has a better shot than Forrest for that reason.

by ChrisBat on Aug 10, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, something tells me Kid Nate wrote this piece from a position of passion.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I actually don't like Forrest at all

have NEVER been a fan.
My wife even hates him — for his tears in the cage after the Keith Jardine loss.
Also I’ve consistently heard he’s a bully and a jerk in real life.
I enjoyed Anderson’s demolition of him very much.
But that being said, fans need to respect fighters more. If Forrest can’t help freaking out after a humiliating loss, that’s not call to suddenly declare him a dead man.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 10, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

FIghters cry after fights all the time

Win or lose.

Someday, we should just collect gifs of everybody weeping after matches.

by judonerd on Aug 10, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that fans need to respect fighters more, but part of being a fan is being “FANatical” in terms of your worship and mockery of those you like/dislike. People should keep things as respecful as they can, but when a guy gets tooled and clowned, he should expect people to have a little fun at his expense. That’s why he gets paid the big bucks (and why people like me have been saying for a long time that fighters should be paid more).

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

You’re wife is cold, Nate… just cold.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

she gets to see a grown man reduced to tears

often enough at home.
: P

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 10, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I have heard, second hand from a former girl friend of his, that he is a jerk to most people including fans.

by szucconi on Aug 10, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is the video of him kicking & breaking a reporter’s leg.

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Aug 10, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

forest is an asshole in real life.

i will vouch for this.

"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com

by ekc on Aug 11, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to pile on the guy but I saw him at the fan expo at UFC 100 both days and I don’t think he smiled once, he seemed like he would have rather been anyplace but there having to take pics and sign autos for the people who pay his bills.

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 11, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Rampage is an ass and I’d like to see just how well he’ll do against Anderson

Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson

by lovingmma25 on Aug 10, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good write-up.

by Ahhhoki on Aug 10, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

thanks

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 10, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

*sigh*
Griffin was the beneficiary of favorable judging against Jackson on top of Quinton’s mental issues that became apparent after the fight.

Every time I watch that fight I score it 47-47. Rampage 1st, 3rd, and 4th 10-9 (all close). Griffin 10-8 2nd, 10-9 5th. Everyone who calls it a robbery needs to read this and this again.

As far as Forrest goes, I honestly believe that this will blow over after a while. The guy was the champion of the division just a few months ago but now he’s a scrub that got exposed? Please. He’ll just be known as the hard-working guy that takes losses hard.

by Tonley on Aug 10, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I too scored it as a draw

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by Kid Nate on Aug 10, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also believe the fight was a draw. However, I also believe that Forrest is a scrub that got exposed. Not to discount the hard work a lot of these guys put in, but I would say 10% of professional MMA fighters are actually worthy of the distinction. Guys like Anderson and Emelianenko are “years ahead” and thus Forrest losing shouldn’t have any long-term impact. I never considered Forrest to be a champion-caliber fighter and this fight proved that. But that doesn’t mean I don’t want to see him fight again.

by Ahhhoki on Aug 10, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the reality is that he won the championship belt

facts is facts.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 10, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah but he didn’t defend it.

If you aren’t the champ until you defend your belt, then Forrest isn’t. Neither is Rampage or Evans.

by toxic on Aug 10, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about the fact that he beat the #1 LHW in 2 consecutive fights?

He sucks because he didn’t win when he was #1?

You can’t take away from what he’s done in the cage, you just can’t.

by Phildo on Aug 10, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rampage defended against Dan Henderson

Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson

by lovingmma25 on Aug 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Opps, my bad.

by toxic on Aug 10, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just repeating what I’ve been told by the hype machine many times.

by toxic on Aug 10, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It seems that quite a few title holders do not succeed in defending their belts. Rodriguez, Nogueira, Belfort, Couture, Tanner, Newton, Griffin, Evans… Several succesful title defenses is a rarity all in itself.

Claiming that a champ has to defend his strap until being “legit” is BS. You beat the champ, you’re the champ – regardless of whatever happens in the next fight.

by lhasafi on Aug 11, 2009 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It certainly wasn’t a robbery because round 3 was so close, but two of the judges gave Forrest round 1 and I think one gave him round 4. Absolutely criminal.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Aug 10, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, not a robbery in the fight overall, but puzzling scoring.

by szucconi on Aug 10, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rampage tweeter shortly afterward that he was joking about his reaction to Forrest losing… Majority of what’s on Twitter is schtick

by kanodogg on Aug 10, 2009 12:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

This fight could have been a work. I’m not saying it was.

Forrest losing only hurts him in the eyes of us hardcore fans, and we’re nobodies in Zuffa’s pockets. If he wins 2-3 more they’ll make it seem like the best comeback ever.

by TheAlphaNerd on Aug 10, 2009 12:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I mean can we just back up a moment and ask – is anyone genuinely surprised that Forrest got his ass handed to him? Honestly the only thing that surprised me was that it didn’t take another three or four minutes.

by ChrisBat on Aug 10, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

At least Rampage would have the respect to at least stick around after the fight.

by brandonh on Aug 10, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

at least i can type at least twice in a sentence. wahwahweewah.

by brandonh on Aug 10, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forrest is just a regular guy who likes to fight. He got in way over his head on this one. If you’ve read his book, you would know how important “looking manly” is to him. Anderson Silva clowned him the whole time. He basically out-manned Forrest.

You all know that guy, a real man’s man that lives or dies on his pride. When you go into the ring with that mindset and get toyed with, making you look like an ameteur, you’re gonna break down. Anderson played his cards right, he knew his opponents mentality and knew that taunting him and avoiding all his shots would destroy him mentally. This is something Forrest will have to work on.

Rampage, though, needs to show a little respect as a fellow fighter. Sure, Forrest got his ass handed to him, you know it and so do I. Do you really need to rub it in? I didn’t see other fighters clowning him when he took his nickname to heart and took the cops on a joyride with his picture on the truck he was driving. I say he should be Anderson’s next opponent.

by Amsterdaam on Aug 10, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I figure the loser of Rashad – Rampage is Silva’s next opponent. The winner is in line for a title shot.

by ChrisBat on Aug 10, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I’d like to see Anderson fight Brandon Vera next

Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson

by lovingmma25 on Aug 10, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually wouldn’t mind seeing that fight (as previously stated) b/c I believe that Tito would take him down – Forrest said he would be that didn’t happen

Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson

by lovingmma25 on Aug 10, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

be should be but

Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson

by lovingmma25 on Aug 10, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec’d for hilarity!

by Amsterdaam on Aug 10, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That actually made me laugh out loud. Very nice.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 10, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think there’d be much popular support for Machida v Evans 2 if Evans beat Rampage?

by Cunny on Aug 11, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

First, I agree with Nate that anyone who thinks this fight was thrown by Forrest is completely out to lunch. It’s not usually the big underdog who would really benefit from the win that throws a fight.

Secondly, it showed a lack of class for Forrest to run out of the cage the way he did. No way around that. But, at the same time, he just took probably the worst ass kicking he has ever taken. He’s a guy who fights with a lot of emotion and prides himself on being tough and having a lot of heart, so to get embarrassed like has to hurt.

And no one is giving Sliva the credit he deserves for this win. I’m sure Griffin came in with a solid game plan, and that game plan went right out the window the first time Silva connected solidly. By the time that last jab put him down, I don’t think there were too many thoughts running through his head.

He didn’t quit or throw the fight – he got beat up.

by McEwen on Aug 10, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Alliteration FTW!

"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn

by Day Man on Aug 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

This all boils down to:

Anderson Silva – “I will break you”

by Amsterdaam on Aug 10, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Isn’t Rampage the guy who went apeshit in a Monster truck on public streets after willingly depriving himself of nourishment except for energy drinks? And also the guy who molests female reporters “all in good humor”?

I personally don’t value his opinion on who a “loser” is too much.

BOOSH

by Farthammer on Aug 10, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

SERIOUSLY

Rampage’s career is still peaking, even after losing to griffin and squeaking out a decision against Jardine.

by judonerd on Aug 10, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly – like he chose to fight Rashad and not Machida (for a title shot) b/c Rashad got up in his face after the Jardine fight, yeah ok Rampage

losing your title meant so much to you that you damn near lost your mind but yet you chose to fight Rashad and not Machida

Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson

by lovingmma25 on Aug 10, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You should not criticize how Rampage copes with losing. He is a passionate fighter that had just lost, after months of trash-talking and deriding the skills of his opponent. He was embarrassed, and upset, and felt forsaken by Jesus. Furthermore, you are not a fighter, and in no position to provide an opinion about what fighters do…they are above reproach.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson

by lovingmma25 on Aug 10, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope this is a joke.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never joke. Every single one of my posts have been on the level, and I would never use sarcasm or overstatement to make a point. Also, I hate kittens.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Aug 10, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and felt forsaken by Jesus

Aha I got it right there. You read some crazy shits out there, but usually god references are synonym of sarcasms.

You don't look like a Tanaka.

by spectaa on Aug 10, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

PAY HEAD BROTHERS! A mmalogic original

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ll pay heed, the last time I paid head, I caught herpes…

by Screwface on Aug 10, 2009 2:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

So, it's a joke. Okay, cool.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your sarcasm detector broke Leland?

Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by ufc4 on Aug 11, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha Love it!!!

This was the best part…..

Furthermore, you are not a fighter, and in no position to provide an opinion about what fighters do…they are above reproach.

by Dexerion on Aug 10, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We really need a bury option.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Aug 10, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would actually end up being terrible.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 10, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rampage needs to check his shit

He wouldn’t fare much better against A. Silva. I think I’ll be rooting for Rashad after all.

by Patrick79x on Aug 10, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forrest was certainly ill-served on a number of fronts — by his own terrible game-planning (or failure to implement a game plan), by Joe Silva and Dana White he apparently seriously over-rated his abilities to give Anderson Silva a tough fight

Dana and Joe Silva knew exactly what they were doing. They were making yet another “win,win” for the UFC. If Forrest shows well and/or wins he’s the badass who knocked off a P4P king. If Anderson KOs Forrest it puts him in a good light with the casual fanbase he has been unable to penetrate.

I think the latter is what was expected. Dana and Joe knows Forrest is chinny and won’t back down. This fight was made to bring Anderson Silva up in the eyes of the casual fans.

PS: Photoshops are just in good fun. Not to mention totally hilarious. Don’t take it to heart.

by Dexerion on Aug 10, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

People are too damn negative....

If I remember correctly, a few weeks ago (after Affliction fell) we were all salavating at the thought of the p4p number one fighter in the world (Fedor) fighting Brock in the UFC….

A week later, our hopes and dreams were dashed in an instant. We bitched and moaned and bitched some more.

Another week later, Anderson Silva (one time p4p #1) who most had been blasting for his boring fights and his new “i only engage if i have to…” style, steps up in weight, and fights the UFC’s goldenboy.

3 minutes later, Forrest has been destroyed by the most gifted striker in the history of the sport, our faith in the Spider is renewed, we are distracted from Fedor for a while, and Anderson becomes the p4p king once again.

This was one of the greatest, most memorable moments in the sport for me. Im not new to the sport by any means. Im 23. I paid to see Chuck/Randy II,III, and just about every PPV since, my wanderlei silva action figure sits next to my TV at all times, and I broke my nose on my trampoline when I was 11 after renting UFC 1 on VHS. I love this sport and I have seen some great moments…. but this one stands out. Anderson Silva completely out-classing a top-tier fighter after being criticized for not crushing people hard enough. It was a showcase of the best fighter alive and I was glad so many new fans (because of UFC 100 and the media attention) got to see what greatness in our sport looks like. It was like Jordan scoring 60 in a playoff game to me.

there is so much more to take from 101 than “Forrest quit” or “the fight was fixed” thats just stupid.

A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.

by MMArazorback on Aug 10, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

A telling moment

Forrest’s mental attitude is when he gets up and is being chased by Anderson, taking that one extra shot. Forrest resets and sorta shakes his head and smirks for a moment like “Damn, he hits a lot harder/fast/more accurately than I expected.”

by rzor on Aug 10, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No GIF of Forrest running out of the arena?

Clearly a concussed man who could not continue a fight can run perfectly out of an arena at top speed.

by DirtyML on Aug 10, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Here’s another interpretation:

Forrest gets stunned a bit and dropped. Lazily brings arms up in a rocked attempt at defense. The ref sees him acting punch drunk, steps in. Horrified and embarrassed at the early stoppage, he flees.

I mean, Forrest never actually tapped. He just wasn’t defending himself very well at all.

by toxic on Aug 10, 2009 1:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You’re arguing that the stoppage was early?

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s a really unusual reaction to an early stoppage.

You don't look like a Tanaka.

by spectaa on Aug 10, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can have it one of two ways:

the ref jumping in was perfectly legit; i.e. Forrest was truly messed and could no longer intelligently defend himself. If that’s the case, then wtf is anyone even complaining about about? He left the cage after a KO. Not a big deal.

The ref jumping in was because he thought Forrest was just giving up and jumped in even though Forrest could intelligently defend himself. All Forrest did was hold his arms up to fend off Silva. He certainly didn’t tap or curl into a ball or anything. That’s not to say Forrest had any real shot of winning the fight; just that Silva wasn’t pouncing and Forrest wasn’t out and so it shouldn’t have been stopped at that point.

So which is it? Should the fight have been stopped or not? Because the ref is the one who stepped in with no clear communication from Forrest that he gave up. Body language isn’t enough to convict Forrest of quitting.

by toxic on Aug 10, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should have been stopped

That’s the 3rd time he had been knocked down in the round. Nog got the same treatment against Mir. There comes a point where the Ref has to determine that the fight isn’t going to be competitive and best to end it now before the guy taking the beating get’s severely injured.

by bignerd on Aug 10, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, so it should have been stopped. Then what did Forrest do that was so wrong?

by toxic on Aug 10, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sticking around for the post-fight interview, and no-showing the press conference, I guess. A little bit unsportsmanlike, and the kind of thing that athletes in other sports get fined for.

Also, the man got a $60K Fight of the Night bonus.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

First, Forrest displayed a Titanic sized level or arrogance with his game plan against Anderson Silva. His plan was to run right at and try overpower the UFC MW champion whose KOed just about anyone who stepped in his range. Get real Forrest, check your ego at the door next time.

Second, assuming he got rocked and was hazy after the 1st knock down. What was he doing moving forward again, throwing wild shots? He just gave us some of the funniest gifs ever swinging wildly before getting popped again. Dude, again show a little brain power, back off, recover and maybe tweak the game plan. He made himself look much worse.

Third, running out the cage immediately is never perceived well. Forrest fans would be screaming bloody murder if Anderson Silva fled the cage after a Forrest victory for any freaking reason. Give the winner his props for 2 minutes than go back stage and let out your emotions.

by bignerd on Aug 10, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was never a huge Forrest fan. Maybe because I never caught the 1st TUF and saw him grow as a fighter. My opinion on him has always been that he’s overrated (IMO he lost to Rampage) but for some reason I was buying the hype that he was gonna do a lil sumthin sumthin to Silva. Guess not.

One thing you have to give Forrest is that he had the balls to step in there with Anderson. He KNEW Silva was one of if not THE #1 P4P guys on the planet.

Chuck vs Forrest please!

GSP: I pulled my groin.

Greg Jackson: I don't care Georges! HIT HIM WITH YOUR GROIN!

by xFenixKnightx on Aug 10, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Chuck?

'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko

by Well Read Idiot on Aug 11, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its very interesting to me

That the people who are insinuating Forrest took a dive are the same people who have been hating on Anderson Silva before the fight. I don’t recall this type of reaction when Fedor crumpled Sylvia in the first round though.

"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn

by Day Man on Aug 10, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sylvia got Zulu'ed

He got bashed alright.

by bignerd on Aug 10, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But no one said he took a dive

"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn

by Day Man on Aug 10, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not reading a lot of dive comments. Or maybe I’m just not taking them seriously.

Anyways, a vast negative response is common for any fighter who looked horrific in a loss.

by bignerd on Aug 10, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not once did it go through my head after watching that fight that griffin took a dive!! and as far as betting on anderson and then taking one………haha that is retarded, stupid, and idiotic all rolled into one!!!!!

by davisj101 on Aug 10, 2009 1:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It’s ok Forrest, I still love you.

by AboveThisFire on Aug 10, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My opinion of Forrest hasn't changed one bit.

He accepted a fight to take on the number 1 P4P fighter in the world. He got beat badly and he probably felt humiliated. Sure, I picked him to win on Saturday, mostly because I just really like Forrest and wanted him to win. It was one of those heart over head picks. I really felt Silva needed a loss. However, he’ll be back. I don’t think Forrest will ever be more than a gatekeeper, but every once in a while, don’t be surprised if he can give some top fighters a run for their money.

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on Aug 10, 2009 2:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i really hate it when

People say rua fought on one leg. No he didn’t he looked fine come round one maybe not his same pride look but um he was away from fighting for more then a year. Ring rust? Rua lost because his gas tank sucked just like it did vs Coleman. But you might as well say rampage lost because he fought on one leg after Forrest kicked the other one off.

The rua win was legit. And anyone still crying for the decision between Forrest and rampage should get over it because it could go eithe way. The champ should never let the fight hit a decision anyway. And using mental issues is a damn cop out nobody here is qualified to say what his mental health was like before or during the fight.

Forrest was a damn good fighter and still will be he was just out classed and embarrassed

"What do you want from me?..... A Slap?"

by xtremecouture on Aug 10, 2009 2:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Regarding Shogun I very much disagree that you can tell that having a blown ACL didn’t affect him just by looking at that fight. When you have a blown ACL you do things differently, you are more tentative, and you worry about putting pressure on the knee in the wrong way because the feeling of it tearing is very sickening and hard to forget.

Also having a knee injury very much affects your gas tank. Forrest definitely won the fight but I’m not sure how much it should have been used to vault Forrest up the standings.

"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn

by Day Man on Aug 10, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I seriously can’t believe that some people think this fight was a work. Haven’t you people ever heard of Occam’s Razor? Here are the two options:

a.) Forrest Griffin, perhaps working at the behest of Dana White, willingly gave up his chances at future title shots, PPV % earnings, and overall relevancy to the sport in order to make an extra hundred thousand dollars or so. Not only would he make this same money in his next fight, he runs the extreme risk of jail time, ostracism from the MMA community, and possibly ruining the UFC.

b.) Forrest Griffin, a fighter previously knocked out several times, got humiliated by the greatest striker in Mixed Martial Arts.

by TheChairman on Aug 10, 2009 2:23 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

The funniest thing about this to me is that it’s not about Forrest loss for many people, the reality is that after Forrest chocked out Shogun and kicked the shit out of Rampage he basically became public enemy #1 to the fanboys.

It’s like Mir after he destroyed Nog, everytime he’s brought up someone is bashing him and making excuses for Nog losing. Fact is even if Forrest never fights again the guy’s place in the history of mma is set he helped bring the sport back to prominance with his fight against Bonnar. He’s a former UFC LHW champion and he pulled off 2 huge upsets when he tapped shogun and beat up rampage all these fanboy excuses and bullshit don’t mean a thing in the real world.

by Raker on Aug 10, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

For always being the voice of reason on these comments sections.

by filipinomix2oo0 on Aug 10, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure how calling MMA fans “sick and pathetic” without qualifiers counts as being “the voice of reason,” though.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

I think he labeled everyone a bunch of spiteful, Pride fan boys above.

by bignerd on Aug 10, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They’re also bitter.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 10, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“some online MMA fans”

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Aug 10, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would have been great if he used the word “some” in the first sentence, rather than the last.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forrest is still the same fighter.

Whenever someone suffers a loss in MMA, fans have a tendency to totally write off the fighter. Forrest should be applauded for taking the fight, and respected for doing what he said he was going to do, namely take the fight to Anderson. Nobody expected him to win, he was a heavy underdog, and he had nothing to lose. It’s important to remember that one loss does not undo a fighters career. If you look at a list of Anderson Silva’s victories most of the people he’s beaten are still dominate fighters. Rich Franklin, besides his 2 losses to Silva has gone 5-1, only losing a close decision to Dan Henderson. Henderson himself has gone 3-0, and Nate Marquardt is 3-1.

Everyone looks bad against Silva so let’s not kick Forrest when he’s down. He’s still got a lot of great fights in his future.

by Krumpenstein on Aug 10, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's the fans fault for reacting to Forrest getting tooled like this?

To make matters worse the guy ran immediately backstage.

by bignerd on Aug 10, 2009 2:35 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I don’t think anyone is saying don’t criticize the guy. That was a pretty poor display on his part. What most are saying is don’t jump on the “he threw the fight” bandwagon.

by black dragon on Aug 10, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nate said:

I’m not even going to dignify the pernicious and wide spread chatter from the knuckle dragging set who insist on believing the fight was a work.

so I’m going to assume that he was saying that we should go easy on the Beav. I say that a little criticism is warranted, and this little nugget:

Forrest Griffin is the definitive organization man for the UFC. He is beyond loyal to Dana White and that loyalty is a two-way street. Anderson Silva on the other hand is openly scheming to get out of his UFC obligations as quickly and profitably as possible — his latest gambit is to drop his middleweight belt and move up to 205lbs permanently, even though he insists he won’t fight light heavyweight champ Lyoto Machida. If the UFC falls for this transparent attempt to escape the champion clause of their contracts — which essentially traps their champs into an auto-renewing contract until they lose the title or retire from MMA — I’ll be shocked.

is irrelevant, misplaced, and unfair to Anderson Silva. Why Nate felt the need to take shots at Silva’s integrity to bolster that of Forrest is beyond me.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s by-and-large the reason people see why he’s crapped out his two previous fights. He’s seemingly far more interested in fighting RJJ than anyone in MMA (at least that’s all he talks about), and that’s not the kind of company loyalty that inspires confidence (not that anyone should unreservedly be loyal, but Dana has treated Silva nicely).

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Aug 10, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

Publically criticizing the man’s performance in his last fight? Saying he’d force him to fight his friend? Preventing him from fighting his idol? I know what you’re going to say — “that’s all business” — but so is this. Fighting out the remainder of his contract, waiting out the non-compete, and living his life unshackled by the Zuffa bondage agreement is the honorable and business-like way to handle things, ESPECIALLY if he agrees to give up his title, rather than smash future contenders, so that the division will have some semblance of credibility.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forrest was certainly ill-served on a number of fronts — by his own terrible game-planning (or failure to implement a game plan)

Nate, I have a feeling, you’re blaming Shawn Tompkins for this.

by The Bronzeville Bully on Aug 10, 2009 2:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well you have to admit, if the plan was “exchange with Anderson Silva” it was a pretty dumb plan. If that wasn’t the plan then it was fairly ill advised for forest to go that route despite planning to do otherwise.

by ChrisBat on Aug 10, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually feel bad for Forrest.

For a living he wakes up every day and trains. He runs, spars, rolls, lifts every day, often twice a day. After months of eating health, working out and preparing for 15 minutes in a cage. In those 15 minutes he enters a cage. In that cage another human is getting PAID to try and hurt him.

In 15 minutes the last 6 months of your life is judged my millions of people who don’t know or understand the sacrifice, pain, sweet, and blood you have spilled to entertain them. And we now sit here and judge him. I salute and respect him as a man. He has entered a cage and fought not only the best in the world but himself as well.

by Riney on Aug 10, 2009 5:23 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

I know…welcome to life as a professional athlete. He really should be better-paid for his sacrifice.

by madiq on Aug 10, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a Fix

This fight was a win for the UFC mo matter what the result. No reason at all to fix it. And if it was fixed, don’t you think they would have done a better job of it, had a spectaular looking KO instead of Forrest submitting off his back? Not a fix, no way.

by Raymond Luxury Yacht on Aug 10, 2009 7:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not to repeat too much of Michael's post....

… but here’s how I’m seeing it until evidence, or at least a better explanation, proves otherwise.

Forrest comes in knowing that his task is push the action. He does so.

He tries some leg kicks, which probably won him the fight against Rampage. Silva catches one. That throws a wrench in the game plan. (HT to Sergio for picking up on that.)

Silva drops him once. Drops him again.

At this point, the “smart” thing to do would be to run around for the rest of the first round, at least. Maybe he survives the round and tries to regroup.

For better or for worse, that’s not Forrest. He charges, swinging wildly. Silva catches him coming forward with a precise shot that catches him flush. Check the replay, and you’ll see Forrest’s head jerk upon impact. (People who think that wasn’t a KO punch are probably the same people who thought Michael Moorer threw the Foreman fight, not realizing Moorer’s face was a stitched-up mess after that fight. You don’t need to wind up like Hendo or Rashad to put someone’s lights out. Brian Bowles was moving backwards until he launched his KO shot — ask Miguel Torres how that one felt.)

So he falls with his bell rung. And who cares what he does with his arms then — the point is that he’s in no position to defend himself.

He’s not the first fighter to sprint out of the cage after a loss. Maybe you fault him for missing the postfight, but no other defeated fighters were there, as far as I know.

At the very least, he deserves to tell his side of all that.

I’m not one to judge his future prospects. Maybe he and Jardine form a formidable 1-2 team of gatekeepers with interesting styles and personalities. Maybe he surprises us again. Who knows?

by Beau Dure on Aug 10, 2009 9:33 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

That Bowles hook was awesome. Waited for the right moment, planted, and dropped him.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Aug 11, 2009 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, Griffin did try scrambling away from Silva during that first round, and Silva just stalked him down and smacked him…
I don’t think running around was an option either… :S

"Hello, Japan"

by rembrandt on Aug 11, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anderson would show Rampage that he’s not as touch as he thinks he is….ALA the axe murderer’s death-like batterings he received in Pride.

Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei.
http://theworldsoldestsport.blogspot.com/

by theworldsoldestsport on Aug 11, 2009 10:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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