Dana White, Cro Cop, the International MMA Business and How It Gets That Way

by Kid Nate on Jul 9, 2009 10:58 PM EDT in News Comment 48 comments

3706157864_937e9f6c30_medium Some ugly stuff has been bubbling around the MMA blogosphere this week. First off, Cro Cop is apparently once again leaning towards a return to the UFC. Many were very critical of Cro Cop when he appeared to be leaving the UFC after only one fight. I thought Shawn from Fightlinker made the best case for Cro Cop:

Cro Cop recieved a lot of shit for jumping to Dream in the first place, but all he did was look out for himself, which is what any of us would have done in the same situation. Most fighters are restricted to doing whatever it is the UFC asks of them (see: Jon Fitch getting fired and hired in a 24 hour time span) because they have no other options. With Cro Cop’s name value overseas, he has a wealth of other options where he could make a comparable amount of money — which is what it all boils down to at the end of the day. Many called bullshit on his comments that he wanted to prove himself in the UFC after a disappointing showing the last time around, but I think it’s fair to say that he legitimately does want to prove himself inside the Octagon — just not at the cost of sacrificing certain contractual requirements.

Then today at the UFC 100 press conference Dana elaborated on his perception of Cro Cop's dealings with DREAM:

I have said this many times and I'll say it again: there's some crooked sh*t that goes on over in Japan. They're all crooked. There's some sneaky sh*t going on over there, and that's always a big problem, you know. These guys who are in the fight business over there, for my Mexican friends, 'No bueno. No bueno.'"

"They're going to kill me if I ever go to Japan. Why are you trying to get me over there? (Laughs) They hate me over there."

Reporter: "They're waiting for you."

White: "They're waiting for me. Yeah, they sure are."

This comment from a FightOpinion reader strikes a chord with many:

There is ONE objective that the UFC has here: make more money for themselves and the top 2%-3% of the talent (the guys the actually care about because they bring in PPV dollars)…

…and do it at the expense of the other 98% who rely on sponsorship dollars for, you know, fancy luxuries like food shelter.

Saying "Hey, it’s all fair! It’s their show so they can do what they want!" is a bulls#it way justifying a large corporation taking advantage of its employees. You know damn well that fighters rely on these smaller sponsorships to pay their bills, and the UFC knows it as well.

In the American business model you don’t even stab employees in the back anymore…you stab them in their face, smile while you do it, and tell them you’re within your rights because hey, "it’s just smart business."

Dana White is a very aggressive competitor in the business world but I can't help but feeling his fear and loathing of the Japanese side of the MMA business is a little bit like a bully fighter like Tito Ortiz when faced with a Chuck Liddell. Since he has tangled with the MMA yakuza in Japan and gotten whipped, he plans on ducking any future fights.

I have to wonder how his attempts to bully video industry giant Electronic Arts will go in the long run. The video game world is a very secretive and nasty place and EA is on their home turf. Dana might walk away from video games like he did from Japan, bruised and bitter.

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I am thankful to Zuffa and Dana for helping bring MMA to where it is today.

But I don’t have to love their business practices. I’m a huge UFC fan, and I think Dana is great, but people do have a point when they say the UFC does what it does at the expense of its fighters. At least the fighters who aren’t at the top. All you have to do is look at what happened to Jon Fitch, or how the UFC handles sponsorships, and you know what kind of beast you’re dealing with.

The way I see it, I put myself in the fighters’ position. If my boss treated me the way some of the fighters have been treated by the UFC, I’d be one demoralized, pissed off dude. But then, if I were Chuck, I’d probably be sittin’ pretty. Problem is, most fighters aren’t like Chuck. That’s the way the UFC does business, I suppose. I for one am glad I’m not part of it.

That being said, I’ll order the PPV like the UFC bitch that I am, haha.

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on Jul 9, 2009 11:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

From Dave Meltzer

"UFC wants the word out that anyone in the EA game will never work for UFC… There is the attitude right now that even the people who have already signed for the [EA] game, even before they made this doctrine clear this past week, won’t be brought in [to the UFC], which isn’t exactly fair as you can hardly punish someone for making a decision to sign up for a video game when they had no opportunity to get into your video game in the first place."

"The WEC guys can’t be in the UFC game but also didn’t have the opportunity to negotiate deals for the EA game."

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 9, 2009 11:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Exactly!

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 9, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ZOMG

by subo on Jul 10, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dana is correct on his viewpoint of Japanese MMA. They don’t want foreigners over there.

The Fight Opinion individual is wrong. The UFC pays their undercard guys better then anybody else. Just look at a Strikeforce payscale to show how little money these guys could be making elsewhere.

It’s funny. I read the article without seeing who wrote it. As I scrolled up, I knew it was Kid Nate. He has his own unique negative tone.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Jul 9, 2009 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks

it’s taken many years to get this bitter.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 9, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

lol

Fans: FEDOR! FEDOR! FEDOR!

Goldie: The crowd seems to be chanting "Kongo" here, Joe.

by xFenixKnightx on Jul 9, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the pic actually reminded me of one of smoogy's posts.

weoweoweo .deviantart .com

by Anton Tabuena on Jul 10, 2009 6:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I highly doubt Dana White is going to come away battered and bruised due to EA.

The video game industry is hurting right now. Sales are way down. The cost to produce a game is very high. And the industry is facing competition from, of all things, platforms like the iphone, which have simplistic yet fun games to play.

And what is EA going to do? Give more of their profits to entice fighters to sign onto their game? No way. Do you know what happens with boxing games where the boxers hold out for more money. The boxers just aren’t in the game.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Jul 9, 2009 11:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The video game industry is hurting right now. Sales are way down

Epic Fail

Dude ufc AND videogames are recession proof.

Dana does not want to go head to head with EA. In the end he’ll prob join them.

Fans: FEDOR! FEDOR! FEDOR!

Goldie: The crowd seems to be chanting "Kongo" here, Joe.

by xFenixKnightx on Jul 9, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That just is not true. Video game sales were way down in May of 2009 compared to May of 2008. The trends are there.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Jul 10, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

check out the sales

for June. 1st month the kiddies are out of school.

by Riney on Jul 10, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dana is just telling EA that he can play hardball too.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 10, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And the industry is facing competition from, of all things, platforms like the iphone, which have simplistic yet fun games to play.

Hmmm, did you mean to suggest that the gamez industry is hurting because there are tons of new platforms to sell games for? :)

Game companies are making tons of “casual” games now for people who have cell phones and iPhones and Zunes and Wiis and XBoxes.

by asa on Jul 10, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To say that only the top 2-3% make big money is way off base.

As Meltzer has pointed out, the guys in the top two bouts make anywhere from low six to seven figures.

Just like Fedor ends up with more than his listed pay, so does Franklin, Griffin, Lesnar, Penn, GSP, Liddell, Silva, Mir, Couture, Jackson and a number of others.

The UFC’s business practices are often questionable, but they pay the fighters. Sadly, the ones that lack a ppv cut in their contract don’t know just how much more will come. While I can understand paying bonuses based on the success of the show as well as the energy of the bout, one never knows how much is coming.

by Lynchman on Jul 9, 2009 11:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

nate: i hate being a nitpicky douche, but it was actually me — shawn — from fightlinker that wrote that little blurb.

aside from that, i have yet to see someone on the “cro cop is a prick” side of the fence put together a half-decent argument as to why. anybody on here feel that way but have anything to add to the conversation aside from “booo he said he wanted the ufc belt and then jumped to dream”?

by dropkick101 on Jul 9, 2009 11:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ah my bad man

sorry will fix.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 9, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a) Because he’d have done it if he hadn’t gotten salmonella, and b) he ended up fulfilling his commitment to Dana which was consecutive UFC fights.

by subo on Jul 10, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he didn’t sign a contract he had no commitment to Dana or Zuffa.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 10, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess someones word doesn’t mean as much as it is used to.

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 10, 2009 7:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

I verbally committed to my mom that I’d help her do yardwork. Guess she should’ve gotten it in writing. I’m just looking out for myself here, anyways.

by subo on Jul 10, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate to say it, but the commenter from Fight Opinion is clueless.

The UFC’s goal is to make more money for themselves and the people that bring in revenue to the company? Oh my god, what an astounding conclusion. Do you mean to tell me that a private company in a relatively free market aims to maximize profit and market share while pleasing the employees necessary to achieve those goals? Do you mean to tell me that the UFC acts like any other self-interested company looking to survive? I can’t think of any recent examples of companies that sacrificed their bottom line to give untold benefits to their workers and had it come back to bite them…

The fighters who bring in money make money. So do a lot of guys who don’t bring in money. The vast majority of the value is created by the UFC, which is why they take so much revenue. Everyone in the industry knows what the dam breaking event for pay is. The day that two fighters sell 400k+ PPV buys on their own just on the strength of their names, well, that’s a game changer. Until that happens, the UFC brand is what’s valuable.

Did Dana White walk away from Japan bruised and bitter? It strikes me he is the president of the largest MMA company in the world, killed pride by buying it, and took all of its fighters except Fedor that anyone really cared about. And he’ll probably get Fedor. Business didn’t work out there for them, but in the end they are raking in hundreds of millions while the Japanese MMA scene pathetically limps along. Who is bruised and bitter? Is it Dana White or Pride fans still horrified over the outcome?

I’ve been so busy of late that I can’t post, but the EA sports story and the sponsorship fee story have brought out the best and worst in MMA media. The worst being the recent MMA Payout post slamming various media outlets for inadequate coverage while they put up multiple pieces that were borderline unreadable. I especially liked the conclusion of their current featured post: “Let’s hope this is nothing more than something to get us worked up about that never comes to fruition. Because if it does EA Sports, and the fans, is gonna be pissed!”

by Michael Rome on Jul 9, 2009 11:50 PM EDT reply actions 16 recs

I’ve been praying to various gods that you would be posting something analyzing the current sponsorship and EA situations that’s going to to give some sort of even keeled analysis. There’s no point in trying to have a reasonable discussion in the posts, as you just get shouted down by Nate or Mike.

What it comes down to is exactly what you said. The people who perform for the company get the best pay. It works the same way in virtually every successful company in NA. Top performers get the pay, low performers are asked to improve or get axed. Is it perfect? No, but please tell me what the alternative is.

You want to know why Fitch was fired and hired in 24 hours? Because he is worth basically nothing without the UFC behind him. And the UFC hired him back because they need fighters like him to help bring the buys in and fill cards. The UFC is nothing without the fighters and the fighters are nothing without the UFC. Why do people expect that they are going to made rich starting their career? If the UFC tried to equalize pay, their top draws would pitch a fit.

by LiuLang on Jul 10, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

For some reason, MMA fans believe the UFC should be an altruistic business that shouldn’t use its market power to make money. They also believe that the UFC, an organization that sell upwards of 1m plus PPV buys should let any fly-by-night sponsor put their names on fighter’s shorts. This is a multi-billion dollar business; heaven forbid that they exercise their market power, protect their brand, and make money at the same time.

Why can’t fans just watch the fights, leave the politics and the business to the people who do it best? We’re MMA fans, not businessmen. There’s plenty of anti-business critics out there such as MMAPayout. Leave the lame anti-business sentiments to them. We should just get back to enjoying the fights, m’kay?

by cyph on Jul 10, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OH wouldn't it be nice

Or should I say won’t it be nice.

At some point, the UFC’s utter and complete strangehold on MMA’s top talent will be indisputable. Instead of bitching about it, we’ll accept it and start talking about THE FIGHTS AND THE FIGHTERS AND SHIT.

I’m going to get banned if I keep posting in a Maker’s Mark induced haze.

by subo on Jul 10, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed 100%. Cause I’m not agreeing with anyone anywa, and my english isn’t good enough to argue those issues :@.

by spectaa on Jul 10, 2009 7:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with all of Rome’s sentiments.

One thing I would add is that the larger the UFC gets, the better it is for the low-level guys in the long run. The UFC is doing the right thing and making the smart decisions in order to take this shit global. Two or three years ago when Dana White would make comments like “This is going to be the biggest sport in the world” it seemed borderline ridiculous. While the growth will eventually plateau, at this rate a comment like that seems more realistic than ridiculous.

Point is, as the UFC (which is the Coca-Cola or Kleenex of MMA, whether you like it or not) grows, the sport itself grows. That means over the next few years we’ll see higher quality fights, a higher quantity of fights, and bigger payouts for all parties involved in the revenue stream — including the fighters on the lower end of the ladder. Any major sport in the US sees the top stars making obscene amounts, the solid guys making a bit less, and the guys in the farm system making a more-than-livable wage. Mixed martial arts has only been around in this country since 1993, the unified rules since 2000 (?), and the current explosion only began a mere four or five years ago — yet there are still many fighters out there who aren’t top twenty in their weight class who are doing well enough financially that they can do this full time and pay their mortgage.

by dropkick101 on Jul 10, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

White killed Pride?

Pride was dead regardless of whether or not Zuffa bought it.

The only crime White and co made was not running full due dilligence prior to putting pen to paper. They got played by the bulk of the Pride crew. Contracts that were non-transferable, front office folk that would not work with them and refused to sign off on background checks.

Pride was dead and Zuffe merely choked on the remains.

by Lynchman on Jul 10, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, basically all the other buyers would have kept it running in Japan in some form, especially the Japanese suitors. It could have continued under a different banner.

This is just talking about stuff which you have no idea. There is a gigantic ongoing suit right now which revolves around background checks and other pride issues, and guess what—the judge has rejected motions to throw out the case from the Pride side over and over. As it turns out, there may be more to this than the Zach Arnolds of the world know. Basically nobody knows besides those involved, anyone claiming they do is full of shit.

by Michael Rome on Jul 10, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

Goddamnit, you’re on a roll.

by subo on Jul 10, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Come back Michael!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 10, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rome, you have saved a drunk man time and energy.

You, sir, are a saint.

by subo on Jul 10, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of saving people time and energy, where is who me? He always said what I wanted to far better than I could.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 10, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you for calling out MMAPayout. It’s a bit ridiculous over there. If there’s an anti-Zuffa angle to be found, they’ll find it, and shout it from the mountain tops.

by Phildo on Jul 10, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Recd

Awesome post. Business is business, from selling apples to selling fights it’s all about the money.

by Riney on Jul 10, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

saying the UFC is the one generating revenue is like saying the US Government has money of it’s own.

The UFC makes money b/c fighters fight. they provide the stage, but this 100,000 for 6 months simply to have the opportunity to sponsor a fighter is absurd. period. no matter how you say it.

The UFC is in business b/c fighters fight. they have no ability to generate sh*t on their own. i’m willing to bet that most of those of you that say “it’s the UFC, they can run their own business” have never trained for years wi/out getting paid then fought amateur, then turned pro…and still work full-time, with kids, etc.

the whole line about, “well the UFC pays fighters but they make money on endorsements” is now looking fairly obsolete…and it was just that, always a “line”….fighters get paid to fight, saying that them generating revenue is a reason to not may them what they deserve makes less than no sense. wake up.

Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei.
http://theworldsoldestsport.blogspot.com/

by theworldsoldestsport on Jul 10, 2009 12:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The UFC is in business b/c fighters fight. they have no ability to generate sh*t on their own.

Is that so? This has been proven wrong time and time again. Brock Lesnar couldn’t sell 100k PPV without the UFC. Fedor couldn’t sell 100k PPV without the UFC. The UFC thrived with sub-par talent during the Pride era. The UFC brand is very powerful. Otherwise, a bunch of top fighters could just band together and create a thriving business…like Affliction.

by cyph on Jul 10, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The UFC brand that gets people to buy the PPVs has been built on fighters and them fighting. People buy UFC PPVs based on previous UFC PPVs. If UFC -hypothetically – threw a PPV with no fights on it, I don’t think very many would buy that one, even if it were an UFC PPV.

UFC is built on fighters, period. They have no other means of generating business. The brand is as strong as it is because of the fighters and the fights. All those hundreds of thousands of viewers do not tune in because of White, the Fertittas, Joe Silva, Goldie, Rogan, Buffer, Mazzagatti, Yamasaki, Dean, whoever… they tune in because of Spider, GSP, Couture, Nog, Lesnar, Mir, Bisping, Hendo, Penn, Hughes… the list goes on and on.

by lhasafi on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No the brand is what sells the ppv’s when guys like Liddell and Hughes are done the new crop of UFC made stars take their place ,but it all revolves around the UFC brand put any of those fighters in another org and watch the buyrates disapear.

by Raker on Jul 10, 2009 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The international MMA business has never been realized as a global success. The average foray into a country that is not the native country of the business is rarely profitable. The UFC is pioneering a profitable global enterprise and is creating a mirage between brand and sport.

If they can become profitable in even 3 countries on a regular basis over a decade, then it will be a success for the sport in general. It will increase the average viewership and the demand for shows, and with that comes increased pay.

The shows in Japan, Dream, Sengoku, they linger from stage to stage, in hopes of drawing the proper numbers to keep their revenue afloat. Amidst shady dealings and strange match-ups and tournaments, they seem to misunderstand the sport and treat it more as entertainment.

The future of mixed martial arts in general is very reliant on how the UFC operates in the next twenty years. There is really nobody else who has the power or the position to make the sport a global success. Their dealings and their international presence must be ambitious.

And as an addendum I believe the WEC fighters will be in the next UFC game.

by DirtyML on Jul 10, 2009 12:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree in Japan they got this super hulk crap to sell tickets. In UFC they would never do that.

by IncomingF5 on Jul 10, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah those damn Shooto people and their accumulated decades of freak show fights! When will they learn that the Japanese just don’t like MMA.

by capital L on Jul 10, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anwser me this. How many people showed up to the latest DREAM and how many showed up to the SHOOTO.

by IncomingF5 on Jul 10, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It has really seemed this week like the anti-Dana White factions on the various blogs out there have basically been kicking and screaming like children throwing tantrums trying to get attention (I do not include Bloody Elbow in this). Yes, the media is actually focusing on what the majority of their readers want this week, which is UFC 100 info, no matter how much the MMAPayouts try to wish it otherwise.

by andherewego on Jul 10, 2009 1:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And 97%

of the anti-zuffa detractors will be watching 100. I have always said “You can hate me all you want, as long as you pay me.”

by Riney on Jul 10, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but a lot of those tools will be stealing it.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Jul 11, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

bq.And as an addendum I believe the WEC fighters will be in the next UFC game.

Just out of curiosity, what is this based on?

by Chromium on Jul 10, 2009 1:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

^^^^

goddammit I meant to press preview not post. We need an edit button or something, at least available for like 3 minutes or something.

by Chromium on Jul 10, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eh...

I know everyone always feels bad for the fighters, but it takes a lot for me to hate on the UFC for their actions…

It seems as if everytime the UFC makes some huge strides in terms of MMA (legalization/sanctioning, marketing/sponsorship, and ventures such as the Video Game) someone is always quick to rush in and try to capitalize off of the work that the UFC puts in… (not to even mention all other orgs using the term “UFC Vet” to fill out their cards)

I mean would EA really have a MMA game if it weren’t for the UFC and THQ developing Undisputed for so long, and the subsequent success? If they don’t want their fighters in the game I have no problem with it… I also have no problem if the UFC declines a fighter cuz they have a contract with EA (although I’d prefer it be for the length of which EA would own the rights, instead of a proposed “lifetime” ban).

ALSO… if the fighters don’t like it, then they should leave… There are plenty of rules that I’ve disagreed with throughout my work experience, and the onus was on me to deal with it how I saw fit… The UFC is in a position where they can do what they want, until someone else does something about it (and I don’t mean riding Zuffa’s coat tails on everything they do).

by Loot on Jul 10, 2009 7:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Constructive Criticism

No offense Nate, but this post is kinda rambly and it feels like you lost your focus halfway through. I don’t feel like I learned “how it got that way” by the end…

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Jul 10, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think in this post it would be better to reference Mike Kogan’s (head of FEG USA) comments to Sergio Non about Mirko having signed a three fight deal and sources close to Dream Matchmakers telling Josh Gross that Mirko is set to fight Mighty Mo. Then you could at least back up what Dana White was saying about shady dealings in Japan with regards to Mirko.

But to be fair these statements by Dream are not unique to Mirko, you can look back through the record and find instances where fighters have been claimed to be set to fight but havn’t signed any contract, or claimed to be fighting but never do. With the fact that Mirko is such an important draw for dream the reporting could have at least been more cautious with their approach to writing their reports about Mirko signing and fighting in Dream, which we know now were completely false.

by Donk696 on Jul 10, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs