Will a Win Over Thiago Alves Send Georges St Pierre to Middleweight?
by Kid Nate on Jul 8, 2009 11:52 PM EDT
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Brian Oswald thinks so:
If St-Pierre earns his 11th win in 12 fights, it would add more fuel to the fiery talk that he should move up to middleweight. Victory won't come easy. Alves is a bigger welterweight than the champion, and also is better able than most to stymie St-Pierre's takedown ability.
...Some will argue the Mike Swick-Martin Kampmann winner at UFC 103 would provide a good matchup, and Fitch himself has said he is not the same fighter that lost to the champion last summer. Despite those options, the most compelling and competitive fights for St-Pierre will be waiting for him in the middleweight division.
On the top of the list for most fans is a super-fight between himself and champion Anderson Silva. While people will argue St-Pierre should have to prove himself in the division before getting an immediate title shot, those sentiments will be silenced if UFC President Dana White wants to broker the fight.
...
However, what's really on the line is GSP's legacy. He can finish out his career by continuing to rack up wins in the welterweight division, or he can significantly increase the level of his competition by moving onward and upward.
From a business angle, the logic is inexorable. Both Anderson Silva and Georges St Pierre are short of big money opponents in their own division. The problem is much worse for Anderson Silva, since he is not a draw himself and of the challengers nipping at his heels, only Michael Bisping is both a fresh opponent and a bit of a draw at least in the U.K.
In GSP's case, Mike Swick is at least a well known face to TUF fans and a win over Martin Kampmann would give Swick a legitimate, if arguable, claim on a title shot. But frankly, until and unless a new wave of young bloods emerges in the welterweight division -- I'm looking at you Dustin Hazelett, Anthony Johnson, and maybe, just maybe Paulo Thiago -- GSP might very well be better off testing the waters at middleweight.
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I’m a GSP fan, but even with a win over Thiago, I wouldn’t say he’s cleaned out the division to the extent that Anderson has at middleweight. There’s still exciting future matchups out there for him. Kampmann, Swick, Condit, Thiago, etc. GSP would probably tear through those guys, but you never know…
I’m all for a GSP-Anderson superfight, cause obviously we’d all love to see it, but if GSP wins, I’d second the motion for Thiago to go to middleweight. Alves vs. Marquardt, Bisping, Wanderlei, and eventually Anderson, would be hellacious fights.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 9, 2009 12:10 AM EDT reply actions
GSP has beaten far more top fighters at his weight than Anderson has, and if he beats Alves, he will have more clearly cleaned out his division than Anderson.
That said, I don’t believe GSP will move up. First, his good friend Marquardt is on the cusp of another title shot, and GSP won’t stand in the way of that. And the UFC has several fights lined up that could be #1 contender fights (guys like Nate, Maia, Bisping, Hendo, and Okami).
Whatever happened to a good ol’ fashioned rematch? How many times did Ortiz fight Shamrock and Chuck? How about Chuck and Randy? Hughes/Trigg or Hughes/GSP? Why not have GSP take on a few of the guys he beat once before? I understand that GSP/Silva would make more money, but there are othe….I’ll stop talking now.
BOOSH
What rematch? GSP/Hughes IV? Trigg? BJ? Fitch? Koscheck? The only one you could argue deserves to fight him right now is Fitch and that fight doesn’t interest me at all right now.
I dunno…but could you make an argument that Shamrock deserved a rematch against Ortiz? That Chuck deserved a rematch against Randy the first time? Just because GSP whooped a guy the first time doesn’t mean he would the second time.
BOOSH
i totally agree
GSP/Fitch interests ME very much. im a huge “fitch fight fan” and would love to see that fight again.
good luck in life!
The problem is that in all of the recent matchups, GSP has completely dominated his opponents top to bottom. His opponents have had nothing for him, and he’s avenged his only two losses decisively. Rematches would be a hard sell at this point because there’s little reason to believe another go around would be any different. Unless a challenger can put together a string of impressive wins, I don’t really see any of these rematches happening.
I’m all for the superfight.
I'd be all over that.
GSP/Fitch II would rip $50 out of my pocket, for sure.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
the thing with the Tito vs Shamrock fights
is there was nothing better on offer for Tito. After losing to Chuck and Randy he was locked out of the title hunt. Shamrock certainly didn’t have a better fight coming up.
The only regrets I have about that is I would have liked to see Tito vs Babalu.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I disagree 100%
It pisses me off when people infer that someone from a lower weight class needs to jump up to a higher weight class to validate themselves. In my opinion if GSP were to fight Anderson Silva, Silva should have to make 170. But he probably can’t. There is reason that there are weight classes. In combat sports it is an advantage to be as lean as you can be to perform optimally in the lowest weight class possible. GSP is mean at 170 and could probably not make 155. ( I was also against the GSP/Penn fight) I don’t wanna see a FAT GSP take on a Damian Maia or Michael Bisping because the keyboard warriors deem it necessary to cement his legacy.
Spider used to be a WW, I could see him making 177-180
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
I think it’s premature to talk about inter weight class matches for any UFC champ with the exception of sivla v. griffin. GSP will have work to do with Swick , who will have FULLY earned his title shot. After Swick, it’s possible that a catchweight w/ a. sivla could make sense, but I’d rather see at least 5 title defenese b 4 the "need " to jump a weight class.
I’d generally agree with you. And I’m not opposed to worthwhile rematches either. I could see Fitch getting another shot after a few more defenses. The issue is whether Anderson will decide to stick around another couple years. He may have only a few fights left before he moves on to try his hand at minor league baseball or something. Presumably he and GSP are at their peaks right now, and you know the UFC wants a huge holiday season superfight at the end of the year. So I’m betting it happens if Alves doesn’t manage to knock him out first. And the belts languish…
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 9, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Anderson would knock GSP into next year…the guy can fight at 205 limit for godsakes. GSP has benefitted from beating hughes 2 of 3, BJ Penn 2x, and Matt Sera 1 out of 2……..step back to reality people. he’s consecutively defended his BELT TWO TIMES…and he should vacate his division for 15 lb’s north? asinine.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei.
http://theworldsoldestsport.blogspot.com/
by theworldsoldestsport on Jul 9, 2009 2:16 AM EDT reply actions
Anderson wouldn’t knock GSP into anything. Anderson can fight The Sandman at 205….whoopity friggin doo. GSP could beat James Irvin too. Size and weight doesn’t matter that much brotha. Look at Fedor and the dude’s he faces. He has faced plenty of guys 35lbs and larger than his weight. It is quite possible that a 170lb GSP can beat a 205lb Irvin as well. We’ll see how he does against Forrest.
I hope you are kidding...
What do you mean benefitted? That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. He was beating Hughes in their 1st fight, until he got caught. It happens. Look what happened in the rematches, he didn’t “catch” them, he beat them down BAD. GSP vs Silva would be a good fight, anyone who says for sure who would win is talking out of their ass. Simple as that.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 9, 2009 6:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
GSP certainly doesn’t need to jump up to middleweight to validate himself or his “legacy”. Besides fighting a one-off super fight with Silva why would GSP want to fight from a position of weakness? Lots of fighters at 185 are HUGE guys, guys who have cut down to fight at 205 in the past. Also factor in that his friend and training partner Nate Marquardt is a contender for the belt at 185 and it adds up to too much downside and not enough upside.
I hate all this talk of guys going up just for a big fight when there will always be compelling opponents establishing themselves in the division. Let him stay in the god-damned welter div & continue to prove that he’s the best. Unlike Anderson going to 205 where he’s still about the same height as most of them, GSP becomes kind of short @ the next weight class. That certainly will be a problem against a long striker like Anderson.
Here's why this won't happen:
GSP vs Penn did great numbers, and garnered a lot of interest, but it also ended Penn as a superstar and sent him back to just plain ol’ champ.
GSP vs Silva would do the same, short of a split decision. Someone loses, and that person will no longer be the god they currently stand as. It’s just not a good long term business decision.
Besides, gimme GSP vs Swick already. If anyone has the puncher’s chance to pull a shocker, it’s Quick.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
Not so fast
Here you setting up the Swick fight and GSP has not yet fought his toughest opponent to date.
I think we should all take a deep breath and relax. Alves has a very good shot at stopping GSP. More so than anyone else he is fought IMO.
As for what hapopens if he were to win, I think a fight against Swick ends bad for Swick. I forsee GSP getting the fight to the mat as soon as possible and punishing Swick.
As a fan, I would love to see Silva vs. GSP but if I were Dana I am not sure I would make that happen since I had been touting Silva as the bests P4P in the world. If he were to lose Dana looks like a fool because he would be forced to say either Fedor is the best or switch gears and say GSP is the best p4p fighter.
If GSP loses then what? He goes back down to his original weight class a broken man? I would imagine with his fragile psyche that he may not be the same after a loss to Silva.
Reverend Turk
MMA Gospel
www.mmagospel.com
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Long term really doesn’t matter with spider. He has already said he doesn’t want to fight much longer. So this really doesn’t apply here.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 9, 2009 11:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I doubt losing to a much bigger fighter had much to do with many fans’ diminished opinion of BJ Penn. It was everything outside the Octagon that got BJ on so many people’s hate list. Not to mention the fact that this flood of new fans over the past two years hasn’t seen BJ fight much. If the UFC does as much to promote Penn/Florian as they have for Machida, Lesnar, etc., and reintroduces BJ, while building Florian up as the “Greatest Test of His Career”, then BJ will have all the opportunity in the world to look like one of the greatest in the sport again.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 9, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Superfights force a fan to choose a favourite.
Which diminishes the support of both guys before it even begins.
Then the loss puts a cap on.
If you see Mark Coleman in person, drop $5 on the floor and watch the fun as he tries in vain to bend down and pick it up.
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