Bisping/Henderson=Mir/Nogueria
by FutureChamp on Jul 6, 2009 9:42 AM EDT
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I'll be the first to admit it: I HATE Bisping's personality. He think's way too highly of himself because he's basically the only UK fighter who made a name for himself and got finally hit the big time. But in a strange way, that means he's basically the Middleweight version of Frank Mir. Mir think's he's incredible because he's the only one in the big boy weight class that's in his prime and can tear your limbs off with submission's left and right. Now he's headlining the biggest UFC card in history. But that's where those two fights that I named in my headline are similar.
Nobody thought Mir could beat Nogueria because Nogueria had never been finished before, but once the fight started, you realized what you were seeing: A Frank Mir that took this fight verrrryyyy seriously and that is still in his prime against a Nogueria that may not be past his prime, but is not exactly the stud he used to be when he ruled Pride.
Now we have a Micheal Bisping who is also taking this fight verrryyyyy seriously and is still in his prime against a Dan Henderson who has never been finished by TKO/KO (just like Nogueria) and isn't showing the skill's that made him such a HUGE threat in Pride. Not saying that no one think's Bisping doesn't have a chance, he's just a bit of an underdog.
And with all that said, Frank Mir finished Antonio Minotauro Nogueria (injured or not, it still might have been an excuse) quickly because he stepped up to the plate and realized what was at stake, and now I think Micheal Bisping will step up to and finish Dan Henderson for the first time in history by TKO in the first or second round. Call me crazy, but I just expect the worst for Hendo even if Dan is one of the coolest dude's ever. Oh, and I still don't like him. Anderson's gonna manhandle him terribly.
[Let's watch the name-calling, please. Thanks.]
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did you know what actually happened to not at that fight?
He had staph infection and was at the hospital less than 10 days before the fight.. He then came back and tore his miniscus around 5 days before the fight.. The dude shouldve backed out of the fight, but he didn’t..
And he never really used it as an excuse as he only said this months after the fight.. At the time he lost he kept his mouth shut about the injury even if rumors were leaking that he indeed had a staph infection..
And dont get me wrong, I get your whole article and analogy, I’m just saying nog never really used it as an excuse as to why he lost.. He even gave Mir props for having a good gameplan..
Nog and all his fanatics have repeatedly used the staph infection excuse to downplay Mir’s domination of him and it is an excuse. Simply put you step in the cage injured it’s your fault don’t try and come out later and try to pull something out of your ass to justify the beating you received Nog got his ass beat it’s time that he and his fans accepted that fact.
Bisping better be praying to the staph gods to infect Henderson. =)
by Nick Thomas on Jul 6, 2009 10:16 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
YOU'RE BACK!!!
O Happy Day!!!
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by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Awesome
How was the trip?
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 7, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Time of my life. I was thinking about typing a fanpost about my trip, but alas, nobody in Lebanon knows about or trains MMA, so it’d be totally off topic.
I poop rainbows.
Just say you RNC’d a couple of muggers and it’ll all be gravy.
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 7, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Do it anyway, and reference “Krav Maga” at some point. Most people don’t know the difference between Lebanon & Israel.
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 7, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
One oppresses and one is oppressed!
/gross oversimplification
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 7, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Couple points I would like to make
1: Bisping will win. People hate him for not being American, so they pretend he is bad.
2: Henderson hasn’t done anything lately… losses to Rampage and Silva, and decisions over Palhares and Fanklin. People think he’s great because of things he has done years ago. I like the guy, but he won’t beat Bisping.
3: Excuses are a’plenty. Whenever someone people don’t like wins a fight, the excuse machine goes into high gear. For example: Mir didn’t beat Lesnar, Mazzagatti did. Mir didn’t beat Nog, staph infection did. Despite being the only person to ever knock him out, he doesn’t get credit — an infection does. So, regardless of who actually wins the fights saturday night, neither Mir nor Bisping will get credit.
4: “Oh, and Bisping is still a douchebag.” I believe that constitutes fighter bashing, and I hope the mods take the actions required.
Lesnar didn't beat randy.. Father time did.. ;)
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 6, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
and a punch that caught the back of the head lol
by littlenicky2355 on Jul 6, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I agree with most of this...
Except, Bisping brings the douchebag comments on himself… prolly more so than most fighters that get bashed on here… Mir gets a lot of shit for his “attitude” on Tuf, but Bisping outside of having the full support of his team, made himself look like a prick (squirting water in Demarques’s face, missing one of the fights, complaining about training time when he had it his way the whole show, etc)
I think he has a MUCH better chance of winnin than most, and I’m excited for the matchup.
The only reason people don’t like Bisping is because he’s English? I don’t like him because he reminds me of every frat-boy jock who feels entitled to the world, regardless of where he’s from. Fuck if I care that it’s the UK.
Why do you want the mods to warn/ban him anyway? The usually-silent Hendo saying “Bisping is a douchebag” is a bit of a meme now, and since Bisping does indeed act like one, then is it fighter-bashing or an accurate description?
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Bisping is a douchebag – and Mazzagatti did beat Lesnar.
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 6, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m so sick of whether Mazz beat Lesnar. Did I hear Mazz warn about back of the head – yes. Did Brock hear it – I doubt it – I needed to crank up the audio to hear over the crowd, and I didn’t have adrenaline surging in me at the time. The only good that came out it was he got to have his first loss early so he knows what being finished feels like and that burden is off his back.
Regardless, Brock should avenge the loss, unless divine intervention saves Mir. So basically Mir’s screwed.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, because Mir
has looked so shitty lately.
Honestly, this fight is a toss up at this point, considering how good both Frank and Brock have looked great since their first encounter. The real questions here are
1) Can you really say that Nog or Randy were at 100%? And if not, then who (at this point in their career) is more washed up?
2) Who will win the fight standing? Mir looked great against Nog (who is a very good boxer), and while Brock has a good amount of power, his standup has looked sloppy (even to the point where he was getting bested by Randy in the early going). Lesnar got the better of the standup in their first matchup, but who takes it now?
and 3) How far has Brock’s ground game progressed, and how sharp is Mir’s since working with JJ greats like Drysdale and Maia? If Brock starts losing the standup and goes for a takedown, will he be able to avoid being submitted? And if Mir is getting the worse of the striking exchanges, will he be able to get thte fight to the mat and pull a sub?
In all honesty, i’m slightly leaning towards Mir, but this is a VERY close fight.
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'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 6, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It was more a joke that subo & I don’t do the “god” thing, thus no divine intervention. Mir really is good, and is underrated for this fight, but I don’t see how he wins unless he sees something I don’t.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Point 1
People don’t like Bisping because he’s not American = Credibility shot
So everyone hates Fedor, GSP, Anderson Silva and Machida too?
Bisbing is going to get whooped. Look at when he fought a fighter that was like Henderson but not as good (Hammil), he clearly lost that fight. Henderson is probably going to knock him out in the second round.
by littlenicky2355 on Jul 6, 2009 11:39 AM EDT reply actions
A lot of people debate
about who should have won the Hammil/Bisping fight but there is no way you can claim either side clearly won
by RicketyCricket on Jul 6, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
he clearly lost that fight
Reality disagrees with you.
by mythbuster on Jul 6, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reality doesn’t always agree with judges. Consider the number of boxing fights considered robberies (I know the article is about non-robberies, but there’s a list after Fallacy #4. I can’t think of a complete robbery in MMA, though individual judges are sometimes wrong – who scored Franklin/Hendo 30-27 RF anyway?).
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
he clearly lost that fight
Reality disagrees with him (littlenicky), because he (Bisping) clearly won that fight. The ‘W’ on his record proves it. You may disagree with the judges, but that doesn’t change the results.
Also, as Cricket points out, it was a close fight that could have gone either way. Anyone saying that it was clearly one way or another has beans to burn.
by mythbuster on Jul 6, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reality disagrees in that it was close and no one clearly won it, not in that Bisping got the nod from the judges. If judges decided to award, say, Kongo the win over Cain, would Kongo then have “clearly won”, despite getting pummeled for 15min? Just because a judge says something occurred doesn’t mean it really happened – again, 30-27 Franklin?
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly yes, Kongo would have won? Is that what you mean? Even though he got beat so badly he couldn’t stand up, if the judges still gave it to him, he would have won?
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
If the refs scored it in his favor? Then clearly he would have won the fight.
If I am drinking a pepsi, am I drinking a pepsi?
If a jury rules against you, are you guilty? Or is it possible that the jury fucked up?
This is an impossibly asinine argument.
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 6, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Prison
Incarcerated guys would say the jury messed up. And there have been innocent people put behind bars.
Do you honestly believe that people’s interpretations of reality are the same as the reality itself?
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
Just because the judges perceive someone to be the winner doesn’t mean he truly won the fight.
Just because a jury rules someone “guilty” doesn’t mean he did it.
Just because AMPAS gives a film “Best Film” doesn’t mean it was the best film of the year.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But in the end, the fighter won the fight, the defendant is found guilty and the movie won the award. That’s the reality.
There’s a difference between being found guilty and actually being guilty.
No film scholar worth their salt will honestly believe that Ordinary People is a better film than Raging Bull, despite the former winning “Best Picture.”
Judging sports is a subjective process, unlike scoring a goal. It can misinterpret what actually happened. Do you think it’s possible for judges to incorrectly score a fight?
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by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
‘Not when it coincides with what I think! No fighter has ever been jobbed ever!’
-mythbuster’s typically indefensible position
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 6, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely
but in the end, unless overturned, the W stays a W – and the reality remains that it is a win on their record.
I can tattoo “I’m a giraffe” on my ass, but that doesn’t make it true.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not what I’m arguing at all.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
The tattoo is real. The tattoo contains a message. The message bears no accurate reference to reality.
Likewise, the judges’ decision does not inherently reflect the fight accurately.
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The tattoo is real.
thank you. Thus the tattoo is reality, the rest is perception.
This is the strangest conversation I’ve had in a while. :)
The tattoo is real, but wrong.
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Kiss my tattooed ass. Nyah, nyah.
Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure why people have so much faith in Michael Bisping’s skills all of a sudden, but this is a bad matchup for him. He’s going to drop a decision to Hendo.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
I've believed in him for quite a while
He’s good enough at gameplans to beat Henderson. Unless “Decision Dan” turns this into a wrestling match, Bisping will probably walk out the winner (of a decision).
Well
that’s the thing. If Hendo plays it smart, then he should easily be able to outwrestle Bisping, and grind out a decision. Conversely, if Hendo decides to slug, then there’s a very real probability that Bisping picks him apart standing and wins the decision.
IMO, this is Dan’s fight to lose.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 6, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
IIRC Bisping has pretty good takedown defense, and one would hope he’s been working on that. Will be interesting to see tho.
His takedown defense isn’t really that amazing, but he is very effective at mitigating damage from the bottom and popping back up. Henderson has never been known for his devastating ground-and-pound, Bisping should be able to avoid any damage while on his back.
What he (Henderson) should do in this fight is mix up his wrestling and striking: fake the overhand to get the takedown, push the fight into the cage, wait until Bisping is about to get up, blast him, and repeat.
What he will probably do…pretend he is Chris Leben and lose a frustrating decision.
If Bisping is gonna win it’ll be by decision. Dan has a cinder block for a head.
Keep firing Assholes!
Out out, you demons of stupidity!
That explains the way he talks…
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 6, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
FutureChamp, I couldn't agree more.
Certain fans suffer from what I like to call ‘war-hero syndrome’.
It’s when you look at a ‘veteran’ fighter and all you can think about is how they dominated everyone during their time. You can’t get past it. You fail to accept the fact that as fighters get older they get softer, their reaction time slows down, and their skills start to diminish.
The coming BJ Penn vs Kenny Florian is another great example of this.
The positive thing is that bookies tend to suffer from the same syndrome, which makes it good for us bettors.
Exactly!
Speaking of which, who do you have in the BJ/Kenny fight?
"I will knock your hair black!"- Ken Shamrock to Tito Ortiz
It's the bettors ideal matchup
Lesnar v Couture, Sherk v Edgar, Evans v Liddell, Mir v Nougeira, Wanderlei v anyone in his past 7 fights, Hughes vs Alves.
Older guys who are either past their prime, or who the game has passed them by are great to bet against. People love to give them odds based on their past victories and/or dominance. Unfortunately, they generally get worse or plateau, whereas younger fighters with more well rounded games only get better since their last fight(s).
I’m not saying Bisping WILL win. All I’m saying is that it’s personally my ideal betting scenario. I’m betting on the Brit.
I don't get it,
Dan Henderson is the one who said it and you guy’s posted the quote on the front page of the site right? Am I not allowed to reference it and think the same?
"I will knock your hair black!"- Ken Shamrock to Tito Ortiz
There’s a difference between reporting what Henderson said and giving everyone a free pass to go around calling people douchebags.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
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