The Case Against Fedor Emelianenko Signing With the UFC
by Kid Nate on Jul 30, 2009 10:43 AM EDT
in MMA News
Email
Print
Last night we posted the offer that the UFC claims to have made to Fedor Emelianenko and his management team at M-1 Global. We've even taken some heat for being Dana White mouthpieces on this issue, from Fight Opinion:
It’s the David Axelrod graduate school of marketing here, but it also helps to have willing participants ready and able to carry your water. (Carmichael Dave is on KHTK in Sacramento and Dana White is a frequent guest.) Have you noticed how the campaign of information and misinformation online is working to discredit Fedor and try to paint him in a bad light? Look, we know he’s isolated and nothing is going to change and whatever happens for the rest of his career, it will be on him in regards to why he didn’t fight in UFC. If that offends you, then it offends you. Obviously he seems happy with his current business arrangements, so let him go off and do whatever he is going to do.
However, this idea that web sites and blogs should participate in an explicit active role of ‘being used’ for spread information/misinformation in regards to what UFC is ‘allegedly’ offering to Fedor’s camp is silly. It plays right into Dana White’s hands. Hey, if the MMA web sites say anything negative about him, he has ammunition to not give them media credentials for live events. And if the web sites start astroturfing in order to generate good press for UFC, well he has his cake and can eat it too.
Fair enough I guess, if bagging on Bloody Elbow is your thing. We did run Carmichael Dave's info. But anyone who follows Bloody Elbow knows that we try to cover all aspects of the big stories and it's worth noting that Carmichael Dave is a friendly media outlet for Dana White. It's also worth noting that there is no way to verify one party's claims of what was on the table at a closed negotiation.
Speaking of friendly water-carrying media outlets, here's Jonathan Snowden with M-1's side of the story:
"The numbers being floated there are a little misleading. The UFC’s offer of $30 million over six fights isn’t a guarantee," Snowden learned from a source. "The number is based on Zuffa’s projections of what Fedor’s take of the PPV money would be, and the numbers they are projecting are based on selling a ton of PPV’s. The actual guarantee for Fedor is much more modest. It’s true that if business stays at record levels Fedor could walk away with $30 million. But that is no guarantee."
This has a certain ring of truth to it. Fedor's in a position where he doesn't have to sign for terms that hinge on a lot of "IF we do X PPV sales, then you'll get Y dollars." Going for the guaranteed money is just plain smart on his part.
Here's something else to think about. From the moment the deals were being rumored, I believed that Dana White and Zuffa were so confident that Brock Lesnar would beat Fedor in the Russian's first UFC fight that they were willing to offer lots of terms (loosening the champion clause etc) that they would not have offered if Fedor was going to be facing Randy Couture, Cro-Cop and Big Nog in his three UFC fights.
I think Fedor also is concerned that he might lose to Brock Lesnar -- and there's nothing wrong with that, Lesnar is a beast -- and even a 30% chance of Lesnar winning the first fight is a big risk for Fedor. Especially in his first fight in a cage with elbows on the ground. Fedor's history of getting cut in fights makes a cut stoppage from an elbow an exceedingly likely outcome.
In closing, here's the case for Strikeforce:
- No elbows on the ground.
- Willingness to co-promote. Remember, Fedor isn't just a client of M-1, he's supposedly a 20% owner -- that's twice the share Dana White has in the UFC. There's also a strong element of Russian nationalism. Fedor's never been seen on national television in Russia. Affliction had just scored a deal to do that. Also, don't forget how "business" is done in Russia. I don't want to speculate, but if I was Fedor, I'd be very hesitant to dump my Russian partners.
- Strikeforce's roster of Brett Rogers, Fabricio Werdum and Alistair Overeem is a very credible roster of foes for Fedor -- they are ranked #8, 10 and 14, respectively, on this month's USAT/SBN MMA rankings. And I'm sure each would enjoy the "Josh Barnett effect" of rising several notches upon the announcement of a signed fight with Fedor.
- Non-exclusivity. With Strikeforce, Fedor could quite possibly continue to fight in Japan on the odd New Year's Eve for DREAM, maybe even against Josh Barnett in a fight many still want to see.
Fedor has an enormous amount to lose if he makes the wrong step. Clearly his refusal to sign with the UFC and their aggressive PR will cost him the hearts of many MMA fans. At the same time, most of those fans will tune in to watch his next fight, regardless of opponent, especially if it's on CBS. If Strikeforce manages to book him against legitimate top 10 competition, he will only grow his appeal and be able to demand even more from the UFC if there is a next time.
Fedor has firmly established himself as the greatest heavyweight in MMA history thus far. He could decide to retire today and his legacy is secure. He really has nothing to prove. Sure he could potentially build an even bigger legacy in the sport by fighting in the UFC, but he could also damage his status as the (virtually) undefeated king of MMA.
Sure he'll take a hit with MMA fans in the U.S. But honestly, how much does Fedor care about that? He lives in Stary Oskul, Russia. How often do you think he logs onto Sherdog or BE to read the comments? The man has a financial future to think about and he's the one who steps in the ring/cage. He can do whatever he wants and the fans can either watch this supremely talented fighter and continue to wonder about might have beens or try to plug their ears and close their eyes. God willing, Fedor has many more fun fights in his future. Me, I'll be watching whatever he does.
379 comments
|
4 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 30, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Just want to say real quick, what happened to the EA ban thing? Was that waived for Fedor
watchkalibrun.com
It was also waived for Jay Hieron and anyone else Zuffa wants to sign.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 30, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I am beginning to think that Fedor just wants to expose the UFC – perhaps M-1 really wants to lure UFC fighter away
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
there definitely
an aspect of dominance seeking here.
But look at how much shit Dana has talked about Vadim and Fedor. They don’t view him as a friendly.
Let’s not forget that the U.S. and Russia have been enemies for most of the last century. There are huge cultural barriers of antipathy and mistrust.
Beating the yanks is sweet revenge to any Russian.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Brett Rogers ranking is a result of ranking sites' need to feel better about ranking AA so highly.
And it doesn’t make him a credible opponent for Fedor.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Fedor will go down the rankings slowly, but he won’t ever have anything to prove cause he already is a MMA legend even if you people try to deny it.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
A Legend...Perhaps
But his legacy is only secure Among internet warriors and media types that operate largely in Fantasy MMA Land. The casual fan barely knows who this guy is. Yes, that is the casual American fan, the same fan who has driven the sport since 2005.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Jul 30, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So the UFC is the be all and end all of MMA then, because casual fans in the US have ONLY heard of the UFC.
It’s kinda like arguing that Michael Schumacher ISN’T a legend of race car driving, because NASCAR fans have never heard of him.
The UFC Is Mostly the Be-All
Casual fans outside the U.S. don’t pay the bills. Japanese fans have all but lost interest in MMA. Russian fans don’t buy PPVs. Neither do the Brits.
Michael Shumacher actually has a fanbase outside the U.S. that is thriving, can grow his sport and pay his salary year in and year out.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Jul 30, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
very credible roster of foes?? He’s kidding right? They’re only ranked what they are because they’re not in the UFC.
by ProCannonFodder on Jul 30, 2009 10:55 AM EDT reply actions
Because they’re part of a promotion that is
a) regulated
b) drug-tested
c) reputable
…and they fight on a regular basis against credible opponents.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Except that last bit.
Unless “Nobodies and UFC washouts” is how you define “credible opponents.”
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Now your logic is circular:
Heath Herring lost to Jake O’Brien, but is still in the UFC.
Cheick Kongo lost to Heath Herring, but is still in the UFC.
Gabriel Gonzaga got beat by Fabricio Werdum, but is still in the UFC.
CroCop lost to Gonzaga AND Kongo, and is still in the UFC.
Andrei Arloviski was only beaten in the UFC by Tim Sylvia.
Tim Sylvia was only beaten in the UFC by champions Mir, Arlovski, Couture, and Nogueira.
The criteria for determining that “UFC fighters” are better than non-UFC fighters is inconsistent at best. If those guys had chosen to re-sign with the organization, no one would doubt their credentials. If the other guys had chosen to leave (i.e. CroCop), people would be calling them “washouts.” When can we accept that a fighter’s ranking, while subjective, is a better way of assessing “quality” than whether a guy has a UFC contract or not?
by madiq on Jul 30, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
The only thing your logic is missing is time. A fighter today isn’t the same as that fighter 3 years ago.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
So you admit that the term “UFC washout” unfairly denigrates a fighter based on his performance years prior?
Very few fighters get better past a certain age.
So no.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Can you give me a ballpark of what that age might be?
Brock Lesnar, Shane Carwin, Frank Mir, and Randy Couture are awaiting your answer…
It’s certainly not 32! And Randy? Well, I’m busy bitching about Fedor so my Randy argument is gonna have to wait…
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Well good, because Arlovski is 30, Sylvia is 33, Overeem is 29, and Werdum is 32. So I guess you’re right, Tim Sylvia is over the hill.
Also, Josh Barnett is 30, and Antonio Silva is 29.
Have you seen Sylvia getting better over the last 3 years?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Arlovski went 9-4 in the UFC
Two of those four losses were to Tim.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 30, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I will likely root against him from this point on if he doesn't fight in the UFC...
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I like Fedor a lot better than Brock, but M-1’s terms just strike me as insane. As said elsewhere, this is just hugely disappointing because the UFC surprised me and went well beyond what I thought they ever would with this offer. And M-1 still effectively wants a chunk of the company. UFC/M-1 103? Fedor’s the greatest HW of all time. But he ain’t worth that…
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably the most idiotic comment I’ve read on this post. So people can’t just, not like Fedor because they feel he’s ducking the UFC? It instantly has to become a nationality issue? Are you fucking kidding me?
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 30, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
When people argue that “the casual American fans” are the only people whose opinions matter, and that Fedor not being “a PPV draw in the US” determines whether he deserves his contract, I’d say that there’s a bit of pro-American bias slipping into the analysis.
you deserve to get paid what you can bring into the country.
When you’re dealing with an American based company that makes most of their money off of PPV, you would be stupid (or Affliction) to base salaries off of anything else.
Right, but if you’re an American based sports company looking to expand into another market, you might consider international appeal a bit more. I’m sure that Yao Ming received more money to come to the NBA than Lebron James, a #1 draft pick, who became a huge star in his own right. That had something to do with his ability to help prow the NBA audience in Asia.
If Fedor believes that he can help facilitate turning Russia into a UFC market comparable to Canada for GSP, you’d best believe he wants the sweetheart deal of all sweetheart deals.
Kobe Bryant jerseys outsell Yao jerseys in China by a 2-1 margin.
Things like this aren’t so black and white. Lesnar could be a bigger draw in Russia in 5 years than Fedor if he’s not careful.
I basically agree with you as to Fedor’s value internationally, and toward the UFC’s global growth, it’s just a difference in assessing the offer. I think he is being offered the sweetheart deal of all sweetheart deals. Yao Ming’s management company didn’t get a holding in his team, or the NBA at large. M-1 would profit hugely by the offer on the table, and would lose nothing by it. But what they seem to want is a piece of the UFC itself, which to me is unreasonable.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
because if they are going to risk the FEDOR brand by putting him in the UFC, then they are ALL gonna have to get PAID, just in case he loses…and he probably will in 6 fights.
M-1 Global should have a motto like, “We Have Fedor, Give Us A Percentage Of Your Revenue”.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Jul 30, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The LeBron/Yao thing isn't a good comparison
The NBA has a rigid rookie salary scale in place (taking notes, NFL?) While LeBron clearly made more from endorsements (90 Mill from Nike before he was even drafted) than Yao, their salaries, scaled for inflation, would be very close.
Though your point is taken, in that Fedor would help expand the UFC into Russia =)
But I wasn’t talking about Salary, I was talking about the negotiation process between the NBA, the Houston Rockets, the Chinese Basketball Association, and his “Team Yao” management group that dictated that he’d only come to the NBA if he would be the #1 pick. There was also some kind of cash deal upfront, if I recall correctly, with 5% of his salary paid to the CBA. It was a Big Deal at the time, but it’s hard to argue that it didn’t work out for the NBA.
Ah, that makes sense
Was it some of his salary that went to the CBA, or was it like the basball “Posting Fee” for Japanese players?
And it’s certainly worked out for the NBA, that can’t be disputed.
Fredo is scurred of Brock
Brock Lesnar is the top heavyweight in the world now. Screw Fedor for ducking him and all the top HWs in the UFC. For the last four years Fedor has been fed hams (except for Arlovski) from Coleman to Hunt to Choi to Sylvia . . . I guess you get a little fat when your the king. So he signs with Strikeforce? Thats good, I love Strikeforce but we’ll be right back here in a year after he’s torn through Overeem, Rogers, Werdum, and Buentello.
But the real question is, what if he loses to one of these guys? Suddenly he’s not the best HW anymore and he’s blown the chance of making the serious money and getting the serious push that the UFC would have given him.
by mason_beer on Jul 30, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think he cares. I honestly don’t think Fedor caresa bout his status as best HW in the world. His management may, but with Strikeforce, they can co-promote events and get exposure on Showtime or CBS. For them, as a business decision, it’s better.
For us as fans, it blows.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
How many fights do you need to be the best in the world?
If 4-1 isn’t good enough, then 1 more fight against Fedor should do it. I’m sure Fedor is willing to fight Lesnar, correct?
by Hardcharger on Jul 30, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I do
considering how he’s obliterated the competition. I just went and rewatched his three UFC wins, and I don’t see how anyone can beat him right now. Fedor’s never fought a guy who can use his size the way Brock can, the kind of power he has laying chest on chest.
Perhaps Fedor could persuade us, by fighting him? Seriously, no one thought Sylvia or Arlovski were reaching the pinnacle of their skills when they fought in Affliction. Do you think Mike Tyson is the best heavyweight boxer in the world? Time’s change, and you have to keep fighting the best competition to keep that ranking.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Ugh… he doesn’t give a shit about the ranking. He already claims he isn’t the best heavyweight in the world in interview after interview. The guy doesn’t care.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Arguing with madiq. I would not argue with Fedor!
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I was talking about the ranking comment in regards to Fedor. He doesn’t care.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I feel like we've established that...
- Fedor doesn’t care about the fans
- Fedor doesn’t care about being the best
- Fedor (seemingly) doesn’t care about the money
So why do we care about him?
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
A Better Question
Why should the fans care about him?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
D’oh – misread your last statement – I suck.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Because he loves you…. on the inside.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
He does seem like a big lovable teddy bear outside the ring… I guess my only point is that if he’s not coming to the UFC, this isn’t much different than a deferred retirement, which is a drag, because for a few days there, I was almost sure this was going to happen.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s ok. We can make an appointment for a therapy session in which he will bear hug you to death.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
wait
Because he loves you…. on the inside.
is Fedor hitting on me and I missed it?
Damn.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
No, he thinks you’re ugly but have a nice personality.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm to the point where I don't...
right now he can either sign with the UFC or not. If he chooses to not, that is his right. But I don’t see a single fight outside of the UFC for him that I care about in any way. Which means, I’d be more or less done caring about Fedor.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 30, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But what about his super-credible opponents like Brett Rogers?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Nobody is really saying Rogers is credible. That’s just the tagline to push reasoning for the fight.
I wouldn’t mind see Fedor vs. Bulked-Up Overeem if Overeem proves he can crush Werdum. Arona vs. Fedor interests me if Arona makes it back to form.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Nobody except Kid Nate:
Strikeforce’s roster of Brett Rogers, Fabricio Werdum and Alistair Overeem is a very credible roster of foes for Fedor — they are ranked #8, 10 and 14, respectively, on this month’s USAT/SBN MMA rankings.
Am I the only one who reads the articles?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
I don’t agree with Rogers, but I could see someone making the point due to beating AA. Werdum and Overeem both peak my interest as far as credibility goes.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
You can view Rogers beating AA as either:
a) a reflection that Dana was right to cut AA for not being up to standards, or
b) a reflection that Brett Rogers is a better fighter than Fedor by beating AA so easily.
I’m going with a.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
by jemaleddin on Jul 30, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d go with A as well if those are the only two options. You could also view Rogers beating AA as… Rogers caught AA because AA had a terrible gameplan, and it really doesn’t prove whether Rogers is better than AA or not.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
And that still doesn’t support saying that Strikeforce “has a very credible roster of foes for Fedor” – and more importantly, it doesn’t suggest that they have the ability to build such a roster.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
I’m not understanding what you’re arguing. That Rogers is credible? I said he wasn’t credible.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m still arguing what Kid Nate said. Strikeforce is not a credible place for Fedor to fight.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
To who? LOL, to someone who agrees.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, there is that. My disagreement with you is when you said that nobody thinks BR is credible in a thread that starts with an article by KN saying that BR is credible…
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Okay, I will refrain from saying “NOBODY” to saying “A FEW” people think he’s credible. I don’t think he is right now.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Am I the only person who think he’s credible? We also doubted Carwin and Valasquez as well while they were destroying weaker competition.
It’s extremely difficult to be undefeated in MMA when you’re a new fighter due to inexperience. Like Carwin and Cain, it’s not that they win, it’s how they win that’s impressive. This guy is talented and I don’t think it’s a fluke that he beat AA. It’s a fluke that won in record time. But it’s no fluke that he won. Sooner or later, the man would have smashed AA’s glass chin. It wasn’t an if but when.
I think he needs another test.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not that he ISN’T credible. It’s that we don’t have enough evidence to think that he IS credible.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
And why I’d rather see him fight somebody who IS credible.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
I would be interested in a fight with Rogers, just because he’s kind of a baby-Brock and would be interested in seeing how he deals with that size.
Baby Brock in terms of being a big motherfucker...
but stylistically we’re looking at two very different fighters.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 30, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
plus the guy has hands like toasters, similar to Brock.
Rogers doesnt even use his weight that well..
plus he’s slow.. so i don’t get the brock comparison..
a fight against overeem is the only fight outside the UFC im interested in..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Baby Brock?
Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously…. I might piss myself with the laughter.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Uhh, no.
All Rogers has shown thus far is that he is a hyper-aggressive brawler.
Lesnar has at least shown some tact, regardless of how basic it may be. Plus he has that whole amateur wrestling pedigree thing.
by a tommy point on Jul 30, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 30, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
100%
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 30, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, no one thought Sylvia or Arlovski were reaching the pinnacle of their skills when they fought in Affliction.
Did we think that Heath Herring was at the pinnacle of his skills when he lost to Brock? Or Randy Couture, coming off an 18 month layoff? Or Frank Mir, who suffered an injury a few months before?
All I’m saying is that for everyone who complains that Brett Rogers hasn’t been tested, they don’t apply the same criteria to Brock, merely because of the Couture win. And that win isn’t as persuasive for me as it is for them.
to be fair, most of us thought, and probably still think, that Mir is pretty close to the pinnacle of his skills when he fought Brock.
That Brock steam rolled him like that is why Brock’s viewed as the 2nd best heavy in the world.
Agreed. I do believe that the Frank Mir who fought Brock the second time was the best Frank Mir we’ve ever seen. He has steadily been looking better in the cage and has been more and more in shape for each bout. It’s not his fault that Brock only let him execute 0.5% of his game plan in the fight. Frank didn’t look bad, Lesnar looked good and made Frank look helpless.
And so we thought that Frank Mir was the World’s #2 heavyweight when he fought Brock, then? And that was based on the Nogueira win?
In the tradition of ESPN nicknames
We could call Fedor “F-Em”
by woomikee on Jul 30, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I fully agree...
Fedor is a businessman as well… and to be perfectly honest, people still need to realize that he probably wants a life after MMA. Making M-1 Global bigger will give him that sort of opportunity.
Of course, passing on such a lucrative deal and saying the co-promotion details weren’t there even though he could plaster M-1 logos EVERYWHERE on his entourage during one of the biggest PPV events in MMA history is BASICALLY a co-promotion.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
hes killing his future by not doing this. M-1 global WILL fail. They know their only chance at surviving is latching on to the ufc like a parasite if they cant get that done they die. If fedor cares about his future he signs the deal puts that 30 mil in the bank and becomes the biggest star in mma history.
Actually, M-1 is building steadily, using a combination of the Strikeforce and IFL models in Europe and Asia, while using Fedor fights and co-promotion to build their war chest. Their business strategy isn’t NEARLY as ambitious as ProElite and Affliction’s.
Their long-term goal might be ambitious, but the scale that they’re running their shows at seems to suggest that they’re profitable, and trying to grow gradually…kinda like Strikeforce.
I believe they are profitable, and the action on some of the M-1 cards has been outstanding.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
But they’re profitable because they’re not paying the fighters anything.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Well, if that’s what they want to do… okay. They are making money. I’m sure they want to get bigger, but they actually find good matchups that produce exciting fights. Sure, they aren’t great fighters, but it surely produces the finishing type battles casual fans would want to see.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with fight opinion
I can already see some people here who claims that they no longer like Fedor or something like that. Which is ridiculous.
Bloodyelbow is taking the UFC side immoderately and is bashing Fedor and his management team on a daily basis.
it would be good to realize that not signing in the UFC is not equal to being irrelevant or a can. Some people think UFC > fighters…. Which is the wrong approach.
But if the 5 millions are totally not guarenteed , that change everything in fact, Fedor could end with less than 1 million for what we know.
Look
I can kind of understand what you are saying, but the truth is… wait… It’s still there. Right on your chin… yea… the left… Christ, can you even feel it??
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
Yeah, because 1 million bucks is still considered a ridiculous salary… and that doesn’t include PPV revenues. Sure. Some people don’t like Fedor anymore because they wanted to see him in the UFC, and it’s understandable. I’ll never walk away from Fedor as a fan, but stating that BE is taking the UFC side like we planned it this way… is absurd. We’re reporting both sides of the story, and Nate’s analysis in this piece isn’t truly pro-UFC. Give me a break.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I never said that it was ridiculous
But the offer is just not as good as presented by the different media.
For Fedor, 5 millions “guarenteed” and " 5 millions if there is a PPV record" are not the same thing at all.
Yeah, but 5 million guaranteed to a fighter that doesn’t have a track record of epic PPV buys… seems insane.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Beyond Insane. How do you sell that fight?
“Come watch Brock fight a man you’ve never heard of!”
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Especially with the damage EXC has done to the the casual fanbase
by promoting Kimbo Slice as the greatest heavyweight…
Whose gonna believe the effort to make a guy they’ve seen even less is actually the best.
We already knew this…
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I am not disputing this.
But from Fedor’s point of view , the offer lost his appeal.
If Instead of 1,5 millions buys the show make 300 or 400 k, the 5 millions would transform into a lot of less.
the offer is completely less interesting than the 5 millions guaranteed. This a huge change in fact and you can’t blame the fighters for wanting the most in guarantee.
But if the 5 millions are totally not guarenteed , that change everything in fact, Fedor could end with less than 1 million for what we know.
Especially because the UFC doesn’t offer independent auditing of its buyrates.
It's more like Fedor will not draw that much
There is still the risk that Fedor will draw less like someone like Anderson Silva who is in a big run in the UFC. But he is just not that popular, while being a great fighter, one of the best of the UFC.
So if the 5 millions are based on a very high projection, it could be less interesting that what we thought, even if still very lucrative.
Give me a break. I hate to say it… but Snowden’s idea of the contract is still ridiculous. He’s saying that it’s a MODEST amount of money. Fedor doesn’t draw in the U.S., so anything over a MILLION guaranteed is INCREDIBLE. So, if the UFC offered over a million a fight, and then PPV escalators were in place for buyrates… he’d still make over a million bucks plus PPV buys.
Modest? Not at all. Sure, it won’t be worth a whole lot if Lesnar beats him, but he’s still getting a LOT of money.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Modest in comparison to the terms floated on the internet. Obviously it isn’t modest in the overall scheme of things. I would love such a modest payday!
It’s still a huge offer, and if he beats Lesnar… there is a potential for it to pay out at least over $20 million if he continues winning.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t believe the guarantee is $1 million as you are saying. It’s more inline with every other fighter in the UFC.
"in line with every other fighter in the UFC"
sure snowden.. whatever you say..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I highly, highly doubt that. In line with every other fighter? I believe it when I see it.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm...
There is quite a difference between “every other main eventer” and “every other fighter in the UFC”.
Are you one of those people who try to win arguments by admitting that you omitted one tiny (yet crucial) bit of information in your original argument in an attempt to be right?
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
And I still highly doubt that.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m just saying, it’s highly doubtful. We’ll never know.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope
“Bloodyelbow is taking the UFC side immoderately and is bashing Fedor and his management team on a daily basis.”
Really? As EIC I didn’t know the site issued an opinion on the matter. I issued an opinion and the rest of the staff is free to issue theirs, but I wasn’t aware we formulated a mass opinion and released it to the public.
by Luke Thomas on Jul 30, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Exactly!
This ^
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly
I see more and more negative opinions on Fedor and his management than the contrary.
In this article alone, the author implies that Fedor is ducking the UFC because of elbows to the ground and bash fedor’s opponent saying that they are overrated and gained their rankings only because they were to fight Fedor…
calling stuff as you see it doesn't mean you are taking one person's side...
there’s a huge difference between nuthugging and giving out an opinion on a topic..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Yet you stated that it was BloodyElbow.com’s consensus argument. We all have our own opinions. If they happen to go down the same path, then we all have the same opinion. We don’t have a daily pow-wow to angle our views.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
And this commenter’s opinions are STONE COLD FACTS.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
I meant
I meant that the fight opinion article could be right. Look at all the informations leaked, saying that a deal is close , etc….. making the fans hoping when a deal is nowhere to be close and with all the supposed great terms showns on internet when the terms are not that great according to another source.
I took bloodyelbow as an exemple because I post currently on it but I would have to search very hard to find anything positive about Fedor when the article bashing or downplaying him and making negatives comments about him are multiples. It just seems that almost all of the writers of the site took the UFC’s side and started to bash Fedor. This not neutral imo and is even very oriented.
I can see how then UFC could use that by leaking some fake source and using the same source that was supposed related to Zuffa (mmalogic). I just hope people would realize that they should be more reasonable and balanced before taking one side of the story as the absolute truth.
But because you’re opinion sides with the UFC, it’s wrong.
The constant fluffing and fawning over Pride, EliteXC, WAMMA, Affliction, Bodog, IFL, etc that every other site on the internet has done ad nauseam over the last few years is ok, but god forbid someone agree with the UFC’s take on something.
by Phildo on Jul 30, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why would Strikeforce co-promote? I don’t see other companies helping their competitors. Do you think Walmart wants to work with Target or Big Lots – not really.
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
they've co-promoted before
with Affliction. When they brought Arlovski in to fight Nelson and Rogers, they made a point that he was with Affliction, etc
Because they’ve done it before. Coker wants entertaining match-ups, and co-promoting allows them to create those match-ups.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
They also loan fighters to M-1 as with Shane Del Rosario, and they work with DREAM and Sengoku from time to time.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Your last comment stating you will be watching whatever he does is fine but holds no weight if you can’t actually see what he does. In Australia you get the UFC because it is the biggest and the best. If he fights elsewhere then fine…. he will be a secondary thought to me and most of us here. The sport is bigger than the man and the UFC is the main event…. if he thinks it is the other way around then “tell him he is dreaming” from all us down here. Good luck in the minor leagues champ
However, this idea that web sites and blogs should participate in an explicit active role of ‘being used’ for spread information/misinformation in regards to what UFC is ‘allegedly’ offering to Fedor’s camp is silly.
Why wouldn’t BE cover this? talking about all the big news, won’t make a site “biased”.. It’s filtering news so that it would always be pro/anti-someone is what makes a site biased..
Especially in his first fight in a cage with elbows on the ground. Fedor’s history of getting cut in fights makes a cut stoppage from an elbow an exceedingly likely outcome.
Brock doesnt use elbows much in his GnP so this shouldn’t be much of an issue IMO..
The man has a financial future to think about and he’s the one who steps in the ring/cage.
If he really was thinking about his financial future, he’d sign with the UFC.. The figures in the contract that was reported may be inaccurate, but what we can guarantee is that the UFC is the promotion that can offer fedor the biggest contract..
"If he really was thinking about his financial future, he’d sign with the UFC"
So why is he sticking with M1? Loyalty?
You don't look like a Tanaka.
how would anyone know for sure really?
maybe Vadim is the devil and he keeps on whispering to fedor’s ear..
Maybe he has his dog as hostage..
Maybe Vadim pays him in pancakes and icecream..
who knows.. i’m tired with speculating already.. i want real news..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he’s thinking about life after MMA. He wants to grow M-1 Global as he’s a part owner, and have something bringing in income after he retires, and something to be a part of after he’s done.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Is co-promoting with Strikeforce or dream really going to do more of that than the huge paydays and exposure that would come from Fedor in the Octagon?
Co-promoting with Zuffa would obviously be worth more, but there is absolutely no reason for Zuffa to offer that.
Listen, I highly doubt money is a huge factor for Fedor. It isn’t like he lives in Moscow where cost of living is pretty high in areas. He lives in Stary Oskol… shitsville, Russia. It isn’t unbelievably expensive. The money he’s made goes a long ways.
Exposure for M-1 on a co-promotional term in Strikeforce with their name alongside Strikeforce is probably more enticing. Whether or not it actually works is something THEY are risking.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Another way to get exposure for M-1: advertising with that giant pile of cash you make from the UFC.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
My big problem is why not plaster M-1 Global LOGOS ALL OVER your ENTIRE ENTOURAGE when you walk out for the biggest PPV event in the history of MMA vs. Brock Lesnar. The fucking BANNER could be a giant M-1 Global sign. I mean, how is that not just as good?
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Because They Want A Cut...
of the revenue as well?
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Jul 30, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Another way to get exposure for M-1: advertising with that giant pile of cash you make from selling out to the UFC.
Fixed…in the sense that that would be another spin on the same fact pattern.
Huh? Getting paid is not selling out. He wouldn’t be LOSING anything by working for the UFC under the current deal.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Other than his likeness rights, access to his footage, ability to leave outright when the deal is up…
Oh, were those things addressed in the deal mentioned by Carmichael Dave? No? Then you don’t actually know shit about that?
Huh. Interesting.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
For YEARS we’ve been arguing that the UFC has been unwilling to waver in the way it does business for Fedor. The “deal” was floated to the press, and no mention of a compromise in that regard, but mention of a compromise on the Sambo front means that it’s reasonable to assume that there were no other material compromises, because those would be newsworthy.
Also, BlackKettlePot on calling my out for speculating based on incomplete facts, Friend-O.
Wha? I’m not speculating on anything.
And it’s hard to call things like likeness rights selling out – that’s pretty standard stuff. And if it really bothered him – but since he’s never complained about that stuff, it’s hard to say that it’d be newsworthy – he could cry himself to sleep on the huge pile of money he’d be making.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Money is the only factor?
Why does M1 need exposure if not for money?
What is the point in co-promoting with Strikeforce instead? It’s not going to be as much exposure, and Strikeforce could hand over 100% of the Revenue from the fight (if coker was on crack) and it still wouldn’t match what the UFC could do. It’s just being stubborn and hoping he can get the UFC to agree to more, but they really have no reason to.
Leland you are making two contradicting arguments. First you said he wants to insure his financial future after he retires, then you turn around and say its not about the money.
No they aren’t. He’s ensuring that he has something to do after he retires. Money probably isn’t a factor for him personally, but having something to do involving what you love after you retire is something he may want. Financial future after fighting in case something happens is always nice as well.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That seems like the only logical answer. It’s just that this seems bad for M-1. Certainly worse than it is for the UFC, who can now ignore Fedor and go about their business, having shut us all up with our demands that Dana work something out.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, probably.
In no way should someone underestimate the fact that they are both Russians in their loyalty to each other.
They did so much to appeal to americans
…and now that’s pretty much gone.
Well played, Vadim
lets face it, this is a big win for Strikeforce
Hopefully they won’t make Fedor the be-all/end-all of the promotion that thus far has done a good job pushing a variety of stars like Diaz, Shamrock, Smith,Melendez, Shields, among others. EliteXC and Affliction’s problem was they were a one-man operations – all Kimbo/Fedor all the time. Strikeforce has done a great job finding fighters of all weight classes and trying to make them their fighters if you know what I mean, not UFC castoffs but Strkeforce fighters.
by mason_beer on Jul 30, 2009 11:07 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Being Russian matters
I lived in Russia for three years while my dad worked for the embassy there and the first thing you learn is that Russian – perhaps more than any other country – distrusts any outsiders western or far eastern. It doesn’t matter. Its big, dark, cold country that has long winters to sit around and think about the world. It seeps into everything Russians do which is why its been so hard for them to become part of the world, so to speak.
Dana White represents everything Russians hate about Americans – loudmouth, cocky, brash, abrassive, and successful acting like that. For Russians, there is a certain way of doing things and its usually quiet and understated. I can see how Fedor and Vadim are completely put off by Dana White – the quintessential American in their eyes.
Still, dumbass decision for Fedor. Dana White could have made him immortal in the fight game.
by mason_beer on Jul 30, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
/\ this
Russia is a FOREIGN country. Never underestimate that.
They are very proud and rightfully consider themselves one of the world’s great nations. They were basically at war with the U.S. from 1945 to 1989 and lost. Expect them to want to get some revenge when they can.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
They were at war because of ideology—one that Fedor/M-1 clearly don’t ascribe to (unless they were turning down the millions of dollars as a slap in the face to the capitalist dog).
Yes, nationalism could be a factor, but if that were the case, wouldn’t it be more of a middle finger to America if Russia’s greatest fighter came into the UFC, wrecked everyone in his way and then retired as the undisputed champion?
Not if he had to kiss Dana White’s ass to do it. It would just demonstrate that his “principles” can be bought.
Being the highest paid fighter in the organization, getting a pass to appear in the EA game (something only Couture gets right now), and having them waive the contract clause that everyone else adheres to so he can continue to compete in Sambo is kissing Dana White’s ass?
I mean, I’m not saying he should just take whatever Dana puts out there, nor do I think he’s obliged to fight anywhere, but signing a contract where both parties make some concessions, that gives him special treatment over his colleagues, isn’t exactly selling out his principles, unless his principles consist of “my way or no way” exclusively.
^this
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
I agree with Kid Nate
I’m happy to see him fight wherever he goes. He has more to lose than gain by signing with Zuffa/UFC. It also gives us a chance to see good fights on other stages.
Coward?????
I am concerned with the amount of people who as MMA fans think it’s OK to call any fighter who steps in the ring or octagon a coward.
It seems to me one option could be that Fedor is that rare breed, a man of principle. That is a person who will not back down on what they think is right regardless of what is put on the table. he could be one of those guys who when he makes a promise or gives his word he will never break it even if it is at his own cost.
The truth is I don’t know the full truth or what his reasons are but I find it hard to hate on someone like that.
My view is that there is no doubting Fedor’s courage, ability or record and I hope the day will come where I can see him fight the best the UFC has to offer.
by lynjar on Jul 30, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Rec'd
Other than thinking we’ll see him in the UFC 1 day, I agree. The fact is we DON"T know what’s going on. It’s all conjecture and spin at this point. The only hope is that this is negotiating through the media, as is commonplace in boxing.
There's a WAMMA belt in my Cracker Jacks!
I don’t see what the big problem is about Fedor trying to help a promotion out that he’s a part owner of and is based in Russia. He wants MMA to grow in Russia, and that’s definitely one way to do it. Maybe he’s working for a bigger outcome here rather than simply his pocketbook.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
If they can secure a deal at around the #s discussed (guaranteed, that is) and allowing Fedor to continue to compete in Sambo, then eventually M-1, Finklestein, Millen and any other crooks he is surrounded by have to start putting him and his career ahead of M-1, even if it’s just temporary.
There's a WAMMA belt in my Cracker Jacks!
Tweeting @dmiller23
I can see that point as well.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
guys he doesnt care about growing the sport of mma. The ONLY company capable of growing the sport of mma globally right now is Zuffa. Fedor only wants the sport of mma to grow if its M-1 doing it. Theres a big difference.
That’s such bullshit. M-1 Global has more of a grasp on Russia than Zuffa does right now. They can at least grow it in his own home country. Globally, they can’t compete, but local to Russia, they can grow the sport. So what if Fedor wants M-1 to do it globally, he owns some of the company.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Partisan Divide
I would reject the idea I was carrying water here. This information came from multiple sources, and while I can’t say who they were, they were parties in the know on both sides of the table.
It’s a hard thing to be an MMA writer these days. The divide feels alot like politics: very partisan. You are either with Fedor or with the UFC. I’m with neither. The terms being floated for this deal were such a departure that I didn’t trust them. I wanted the truth. I think I found it.
by JSnowden on Jul 30, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Honestly, I feel like your downgrading the offer by saying it’s modest. Almost everyone in the UFC doesn’t see over a million dollars guaranteed, and that’s likely what Fedor was offered. The $5 million figure was best case scenario, but he’d likely see over a million bucks guaranteed per fight.
In the States, that’s far from modest considering Fedor isn’t a PPV draw. The UFC threw a huge contract at him even if $5 million is the best case scenario. It’s far from modest.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
But it’s a very American-centric way of viewing a fighter’s worth, through the lens of whether he’s a PPV draw. Fedor doesn’t live in America, and has fought a lot in Japan, where the free TV ratings model controls, so his conception of his worth is going to be MUCH different.
He also knows what he can make, no strings attached, elsewhere. He will be back when there isn’t easier guaranteed money elsewhere.
This is essentially what I was thinking. He knows he can make huge money in Japan that’s guaranteed.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
In the ever-shrinking Japanese MMA landscape?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Well, shrinking because Fedor is being paid enormous money along with other guys. Barnett will probably make a pretty penny.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
the market in japan is faltering.. He won't get as much as he can in the UFC i think..
Unless the Japanese promotion does an affliction, overpays, then goes bankrupt after..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
One thought re: comparative $$: GSP is now sponsored by Gatorade. IMHO, this will open the flood gates to bigger sponsors: Nike already sponsors fighters in Japan. Fedor in the UFC could lead to huge sponsorship possibilities, bigger than Japan (bigger market).
There's a WAMMA belt in my Cracker Jacks!
Tweeting @dmiller23
I read your comment above.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
UFC & MMA media
“The terms being floated for this deal were such a departure that I didn’t trust them”
the sad part is that 90% of the media and fans gut reaction after seeing wacky FM DJ’s and Whites numbers was to attack Fedor and blindly side with the UFC
2 sides to every coin Especially in contract negotiations
Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ultmma
Hit “up” on the comment.
Disintegration -- I'm taking it in stride.
Follow me on Twitter.
by Eugene Schelfaut on Jul 30, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
It’s insane. I mean, the article makes up this absurd “Barnett effect” that totally discredits BE’s own rankings, and you’re called a “water carrier.” We know what people say about Iole and BE to a lesser extent. Being an MMA fan is like living in a totalitarian country. There are few reliable news sources and even opinions are always suspected of being insincere (rightfully in many or most cases).
I happen to agree that you’re with neither , but I’m sure many will think that that just means that I’m anti-UFC. I largely avoid MMA opinions online, but when I drop in I’m always surprised and disappointed. I mean, why is Carwin more highly regarded than Rogers and why is Kongo more highly than Yvel?
They compile the rankings and they have their name on it
In case it’s not clear, I’m talking about Barnett’s previous No. 2 consensus ranking. Seems that KN saying that the rankings that make up the consensus (including MMA-Elo) are biased and suggesting that his view is so obvious that it doesn’t need support.
the BE rankings merely track what the online MMA community
thinks.
We make no claims that they represent the actual merits of any fighters, at least not in an objective sense.
If you actually read the analysis of any edition of the rankings since the beginning, much of the commentary goes into trying to parse why certain fighters are ranked in certain positions.
With the rankings we’re documenting “what” people say and speculating about “why” they think that. We do not claim to have any insight beyond that.
The whole project began because I concluded that all rankings are basically subjective excercises and of limited value but are still fun and helpful when trying to understand the broader mma scene.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I get that
But if you think a guy could go to nearly the top just because of some kind of weird bias in favor of anyone fighting Fedor, doesn’t that render the whole exercise pointless? I mean, I think what you guys do is very valuable, but that’s because I don’t agree that there is anything like a “Barnett effect.” I think there is a slight bias in favor of guys under contract to the biggest promoter, but that’s to be expected, and I don’t think the effect is that strong.
What are you saying?
The Consensus rankings are just a normalization of all the rankings across the MMA community. The “Barnett Effect” that you have outlined is an opinion. Yes, there is a debate among fans as to why he’s up so high, but there is also a debate as to why websites rank contenders at #2 regardless of where they were previously at.
We can’t do shit about that.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
BITE YOUR TONGUE
Or I guess your fingertips….
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
It’s true that if business stays at record levels Fedor could walk away with $30 million. But that is no guarantee."
Which is to say that in all likelihood, he’d be making even more money than this because the numbers are continuing to skyrocketing?
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
No… he’d likely make less than $30 million. I think $30 is best case scenario.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's what I said. BEST CASE SCENARIO.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Is it realistic to expect that every PPV he is on will be in the 1.5-2 million buy range? Is that best case scenario or BS? I ask this honestly. How do you see UFC growth continuing?
How do you see UFC growth continuing?
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say I expect the UFC’s growth to continue well past anything M-1 can hope to accomplish.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
But what if they had M-1 helping them co-promote?!?!?!?!?
:-/
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Well, it’s all relative. I don’t see UFC growth continuing to the point that Fedor makes his $30 million. ;)
I think it’s an interesting question. It wouldn’t take many succesful shows in Russia for M-1 and Fedor to exceed what he is being offered. Assuming they can make the sport work there. Which is, really, a big part of all this. They want to build this sport over there.
I don’t see UFC growth continuing to the point that Fedor makes his $30 million. ;)
O, ye of little faith…
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
really now..
Fedor isn’t even a draw in Russia cause Russia doesn’t care much about MMA.. so it’s hard to assume that they can make the sport work there and gain more than what the UFC can offer..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s more like Russia doesn’t truly condone MMA versus there actually being interest. They view it much in the same way the UFC had resistance in their early years.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re a very pessimistic person who’d rather see the UFC deal as modest rather than great. I question your neutrality here.
Fedor VS Brock would probably break UFC 100’s buys. Furthermore, with the growth of the sport, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that they will continue to do better. Finally, if Fedor doesn’t get the 30 mil, is 20 mil still too modest? God forbid that Fedor only gets 15 mil, sponsorship, and free M-1 promotion in the deal!
Best Case Scenario is the best possible outcome, which would be the $30 million dollar ceiling. It’s a SET expectation. BEST CASE means that it would be the best outcome from the PPVs. I never said it was realistic or tried to quantify it. I don’t even understand the questioning coming out of that comment.
But I’ll answer your questions. It isn’t realistic to expect every PPV to be 1.5-2 million, but that’s best case scenario. $30 million isn’t going to happen. He’ll NEVER reach the best case scenario in this situation.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Right. In reality the best case scenario is limitless. Or limited to the number of people that have PPV capacity. So the $30 million is not an actual best case scenario. It is based on a projection. One I would consider wildly optimistic.
Sports radio in my area (Denver) just had Nate Marquardt on and talked about Shane Carwin. They cracked jokes about Kimbo and wondered if anyone could beat Brock.
They never talked about MMA prior to UFC 100, ESPN also ran highlights and a “sports updater” on sportscenter after the show. Apparently, the VP of ESPN is a convert now too. Reporters from the Vancouver Sun, the LA Times, and USA Today were reporting on yesterday’s news.
It’s not too hard to think that MMA has reached a tipping point and we’re going to see a quantum leap of new fans. Even if every PPV doesn’t do 2 mil. buys, it’s somewhat reasonable to think that Fedor’s could.
30 million not totally out of the question, just optimistic.
Here are some numbers to kick around:
Randy’s fight with Tim Sylvia did 49000 more buys that his fight with Gonzaga, yet Randy’s ppv revenue was 149k more. That means the ave pay for each of those 49k buys was $3.04. Randy’s ave pay per ppv for the Tim fight was $1.75. With each ppv buy the show did, that ave went up. Had that show done another 500k buys, Randy would have made AT LEAST another 1.51 million. In reality, the number would have been a LOT higher since those high ppv buys would be worth more to him.
If UFC 100 ends up doing 1.5 million buys, Brock and GSP will make far more than 3 million from the ppv cut. Simply using Randy’s numbers, the ppv cut would be at least 4 million (that is if each of those additional buys only made $3.04, which is not the case).
The numbers I am using are not Randy’s rumored pay, but come from documents and cashed checks that were made public during the Couture/UFC dispute.
If Fedor’s ppv cut for a 1.5 million ppv is over 4 million, that 30 million number is not so insane. As I said, the buys between one million and 1.5 million are certainly worth more than just 3.04. That is what was paid for the buys between 485k and 534k (the number of buys the GG and Sylvia fights had done at that time…the GG fight total did end up a little higher as all of the late buys came in from smaller cable companies).
A more realistic number would be 15-20 million.
If the UFC announces a US ABC/ESPN deal tomorrow, I see quite a bit of growth going forward. Could see a marked increase in PPV buys down the road.
by a tommy point on Jul 30, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
"continuing to skyrocket"
Fuck, still recovering from last night.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 30, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I live in Sacramento
And Carmichael Dave basically works for Dana White. He pimps everything for Dana, just for he can have him as a guest.
I’ve heard quite a few UFC interviews on the Jim Rome Show? And I’m pretty sure they don’t control that outlet.
by 49er16 on Jul 30, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The UFC has always tried to be on friendly terms with ESPN, but Dana did ban E:60 after how they portrayed him. So, there was always ups and downs between Zuffa and ESPN.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 30, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
‘Banned’ E:60 right as he was inviting one of ESPN’s honchos to UFC 100 as a special guest.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 30, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't really a question...
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Fedor vs. Brock
I think that’s a big assumption to assume that Fedor is scared of Lesnar…..very big assumption
Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ultmma
More like a ridiculous assumption.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Scared of him? Probably a big assumption.
Worried he could lose to him? I think a fair assumption
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 30, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's not possible!
I understand that Fedor is unbeatable. I’ve read it all over the Internet.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
That’s a fair assumption in ANY fight.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
wait you can lose in MMA
why would any fighter fear that lol?
Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ultmma
i get the feeling that Fedor really cares about his record, moreso than who he actually fights. A guy like Couture, his record takes a beating because he looks for the absolute toughest guys to fight to test himself. Part of what makes Fedor sell is that he is unbeatable. Once he’s beaten, his bottom line takes a big hit. So perhaps thats why he isn’t jumping through hoops to get in the cage against Lesnar.
I’ll be curious to see if the UFC speeds up it’s global expansion after this to make sure they cut M-1 off at the pass. The Fertitta’s have had a little slowdown in the casino business, so they may just now be deciding to push hard for shows around the world. The UFC may be getting the majority of their attention from here on out.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 11:39 AM EDT reply actions
Yes, because I’m sure they see M-1 as a threat.
Oh, wait. No. M-1 is a joke.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
I hear ya’, but I thought part of the logic behind this huge offer to get Fedor would be to appeal to places outside the US where Fedor is more of a household name. Japan, Europe, etc.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedor isn’t a household name ANYWHERE in the world.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
This is true...
Only in my household.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
And only in the context “Manhoef could beat Fedro” =P
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Nah, usually in reference to some asshat in a car on the highway…
“Man, I’d love to Fedor that asshole into the center divider”
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Informations from my ass always are the more appealing to me, but I try not to succumb.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
Do you have any info that Fedor is a household name any where in the world?
Because people misuse that term. Randy Couture is not a household name in America. OPRAH is a household name in America.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Okay. Settle yourselves. Household name was a bad choice of term. How about better known than Shane Carwin or Brock Lesnar? Happy smartasses?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Man, I bet there are more Americans who know who Shane Carwin is than Japanese or Russians who know who Fedor is.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Of course you do, Fedor. But you also think M-1 is a real promotion.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
You do realize how many more Americans there are than Japanese, right? And how many more Americans there are with TVs than Russians?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
No I don’t, that why I don’t make stuffs up. What I know is, I’m europeen, an here fedor is more known that randy couture or brock lesnar. And we’re talking MMA, so let’s keep the comparison fair no? About household, I hoped you knew what he meant.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
I can only know what the words he uses mean. If he says, “a household name” then I have to assume that he means that and not “well known among the tiny hardcore fanbase of a marginalized sport with no mainstream acceptance.”
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
I will stipulate that “household name” has no place in discussion, if you’ll agree that Fedor is known by far more people in Japan and Europe than Shane Carwin or Brock Lesnar are.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
In those countries? Sure. But those are still tiny markets in comparison to the US.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
You’re right, but my point, simple as it was, was just that for the tiny amount of MMA fans in these places, Fedor is “probably”, and I have no proof of this, admittedly, better known than Carwin or Lesnar, and Dana is constantly going on about wanting to break into Japan, and build the brand in Europe, Australia, etc.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way, good luck in law school. I did say “more of a…” But who cares, okay, fine…
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 30, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You have to be “some of a” to be “more of a” and being “none of a” doesn’t count.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
The Ultimate Fighter 11
UFC vs M-1 for co-promorion if m-1 ones. and if the UFC wins the get Fedor without M-1
"fans will tune in to watch his next fight, regardless of opponent, especially if it's on CBS"
how would strikeforce be able to cover his pricetag by putting his fight on a network? not trying to pick apart your statement, just curious how all that works (financially). don’t they have the same not-so-lucrative cbs deal that exc had?
Man i am TIRED about all these speculating..
Good thing dana will announce a bunch of real news tomorrow that could distract us a bit from the fedor discussions..
i’m not gonna post the #m1globalsucks pic, I don’t even care anymore, I’ll just leave you guys with benicio’s work.
I’m really tired so I’m going to bed, and i hope that when i wake up it’s to good news this time around..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 11:45 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Real news? Like that epic news announcement that would blow us away… Lorenzo Fertitta leaves Station Casinos… give me a fucking break. Dana is almost as bad as yesterday’s conference sometimes.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
he's gonna announce the affliction fighters that he signed..
isn’t that real news? plus tito i think or the new 103 headliner..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it will probably be legitimate news… but we may find out that he signed a sponsorship deal to use Charmin toilet paper in his video blogs, and he now has to take massive shits on camera with Charmin.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
and nothing is as bad as fedor's conference!
the only real thing he said was hey i signed with EA.. we knew that months ago..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Nothing is as bad? He announced that he’s headlining a video game. Dana hyped up that bullshit conference, then said Lorenzo will be CEO. WHIP DEE DOO. At least Fedor’s conference gave us REAL information that he WILL NEVER sign a UFC contract.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
i know it wasn't exciting,
but lorenzo being fulltime for the UFC has done / will do more for MMA than fedor’s video game will..
The global expansion of the UFC is all because of Lorenzo.. You guys just don’t get to appreciate that as much as the international folk do..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
What are you talking about
we’ve got events in Canada now, with the potential to open up in more provinces, for us Canuks thats just plain awesome. With the run that Lorenzo is on, the UFC will be a truly global event within a few years. Making M-1 look like a side show.
Nobody mentioned anything about news that will DO MORE for MMA. If that’s the case, obviously that news is bigger, but in terms of people giving a shit, people gave more of a shit about finally finding out an ultimate outcome to Fedor’s contract situation that Lorenzo saying he is heading to Zuffa full-time, especially after Dana hyped up the conference like it was an epic announcement.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I care.. and that was big news to me.. cause after he announced that, he said he was spear heading the campaign to go to countries like Brazil Germany and the PHILIPPINES...
certainly much much bigger than “hey i want co promotion and I’m on a video game” …How long have we known that? I surely don’t give a shit about those two things cause it’s nothing new..
and it wasn’t dana who hyped that up.. It was the MMA blogs and MMA sites who kept on talking about it and speculating non stop..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
They already announced that shit months before that conference. It just so happens we only found out that Lorenzo was going to swing the deals, and I already thought that was the case anyways. To be perfectly honest, it was a complete waste of time when that could have been pushed out in a press release.
At least yesterday… I found out Fedor is fucking done with the UFC. And NO, it wasn’t MMA blogs… DANA WHITE was hyping it up with stupid interview comments about possible signings. I remember vividly having a conversation about the ridiculous interviews and rumors. In the end, most thought it was simply a conference to announce the UFC had locked up antoher city for an event. It wasn’t that at all.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
i do remember it vividly.. Dana said a couple of times that there was an announcement that he was gonna say to his staff first, that is really big….
Then suddenly 1203817324 posts from each and every mma site reporting that huge announcement came up.. Everyone was speculating like crazy.. 1238152 rumors sprung up, Signing fedor, or MSG, Network Deals etc..
so who hyped it up more? Don’t tell me the media wasn’t at fault for jumping the gun, and building that shit up from baseless speculation until it was impossible to top..
Sure Dana could’ve lessened the hyperboles but it was the MMA sites and blogs who built it up and spread rumors like wild fire..
PS
Fedor’s Press Conference was a complete waste of time..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana hyped it more with the information that it was a huge announcement. Websites reported that, but what did you expect people to do? Of course they are going to say it’s something huge.
Fedor’s conference wasn’t a waste of time. We found out:
A.) He’s headlining EA’s MMA game… I really didn’t care
B.) REFUTED claim by LA TIMES, Will NEVER SIGN WITH UFC most likely.
Much better than nothing.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't blame the media for doing it, but it's really their fault for speculating that too much without any basis..
and lets agree to disagree cause i’m tired and sleepy already..
I think that Lorenzo saying he will personally spear head the plans of hosting a UFC show my country is a BIG thing.. You obviously think it isn’t.. (i dont blame you)
You think him still wanting to co-promote is news, I think it’s the same shit all over again..
I guess we’ll leave it at that..
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I don’t think Lorenzo’s news was huge. But we heard the rumors for months ahead of time.
I didn’t say “still wanting to co-promote” was news. I said refuting the LA Times claim that a deal was close and finding out that it’s basically impossible to close a deal with the UFC was news because it refuted over-the-top claims that he was going to be signed.
Agree to disagree.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually that Lorenzo announcement was a big deal.
Lorenzo Fertitta leaving Station Casino was a huge deal it just wasn’t apparent at the time. Look at all the TV deals Lorenzo has worked out since working full time at UFC. Lorenzo has gotten the UFC in potentially hundreds of millions more households. Looking back I would personally call that a huge announcement for what it has meant for the UFC.
No, it wasn’t. Nobody gave a shit. Sure, it was a big deal for the UFC, but really… casual fans didn’t say “HOLY SHIT, LORENZO FERTITTA TO ZUFFA FULL-TIME”.
Yesterday’s traffic alone indicates that the news conference yesterday was a big deal.
In hindsight, it was big news, but not like this.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
REC’d, this whole thing makes me want to go to bed and it’s not even 6PM here.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
invisible recs.. haha.
its almost 12am here.. and there’s no real news now, so i’m going to bed.. for reals this time.
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 30, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
You are my fucking hero Weox3!!! Hahaha
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 30, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I am done with the Fedor speculation, blaming X or Y, and so on.
When he either signs with the UFC or fires his mgmt, I will be interested again.
Until then, I will enjoy watching him fight in SF or Dream or WVR or whatever, as long as it isn’t on a ppv, which I won’t purchase.
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
But how much will you enjoy watching him fight scrubs.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
About the same as I have in the past, lol. Like I said, if it doesn’t cost me any extra, I will watch.
Fedor is like the chick that you keep thinking you are getting somewhere with, then she ends up banging some tool that you can’t stand. Later, maybe you bang the used up chick also and just think about what could have been or you see here somewhere with 5 kids and looking like Hell.
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
Look, Damnit! Not everyone can be Jake Shields!! He is so dreamy…
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
Jake Shields is a possible opponent for Fedor if he signs with Strikeforce. I mean, they’re making him fight in every other weight class….
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
Fedors recorded
is padded, seriously, what would people say about GSP, if his record reflected the same. Everyone and their dog would be all over him. Why does any one at this point care what he does. He’s a business man as well, so I can see why he turned down the UFC thing. But at the same time how much more can the UFC offer one guy that almost no one has heard about and not alienate the roster they already have? If Fedor signs with the UFC, thats great, if not, oh well, I truly don’t care either way.
Fedor made his bones clearing out the deepest HW division in MMA history. And up to this point, he’s managed, for the most part, to keep fighting top 5-10 fighters while existing outside of the UFC. Granted, there was that period of “bleh”.
by a tommy point on Jul 30, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
So what I wonder is this...
If Shane Carwin or Cain Velasquez beats Brock Lesnar, is HE the #1 heavyweight in the world, and the man that Fedor has to come into the UFC for to validate his career?
Look, it doesn’t matter, Fedor of 2002-2007 is the best Heavyweight in the world, and he still is. That’s an incredible run for any MMA fighter.
Fedor of 2009 has some questions surrounding recent opposition and the fact that he turned down the biggest contract in company history to avoid fighting the latest stable of top heavyweights. That’s really where fans are having a problem.
Except that his last two opponents were both top-5 HWs.
The real questions arise now because he doesn’t have a good promoter. That does, indeed, suck.
Meh, their rankings were driven up by the “Fedor ranking effect” that Kid Nate alluded to earlier.
It’s not Fedor’s fault they went out and got knocked out in spectacular fashion after he demolished them, but it hardly helps his argument post haste.
Fedor’s got a very serious challenger in Brock Lesnar, one that he would be the “smart money” underdog to. Turning down a lucrative contract and even more international stardom looks like he’s calculating in the possibility of losing to Brock.
No, their rankings were driven up because the UFC champion was in the midst of holding out for 18 months, and they were the UFC’s two previous champions. The facts that Sylvia had just lost to Nogueira in a fight for the company’s Interim Heavyweight title, while Arlovski was on a four or five fight winning streak, seem to be conveniently overlooked, in favor of overranking guys like Frank Mir, who beat Antoni Hardonk and Brock Lesnar to get his Top 5 spot.
We’ve already seen odds on the fight, and Fedor would be a favorite. A “smart money” favorite, at that. And his (perhaps unrealistic) demand for a one-off contract for a fight with Brock seems to suggest that he’s pretty confident. I don’t think Brock is generally regarded as a bigger threat than Arlvoski was, and certainly he’s not as highly regarded as CroCop was when Fedor fought him.
Also, I believe that a review of the rankings would definitively refute the ranking effect that Kid and you apparently believe in.
Smart money favorite in Fedor? Smart money goes on an underdog Lesnar IMO, even if you tink Fedor can win. I’d root for Fedor, but money-wise, how can you not be on Lesnar’s underdog value.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Lesnar/Fedor and Fedor/Couture could indeed be, with heavy promotion, among the biggest ppvs in UFC history. Especially if the rumors of an ESPN/ABC deal are true. If those rumors are correct, those two bouts might well be the biggest in UFC history.
Snowden continues with this:
As long as Fedor can get guaranteed money elsewhere, he isn’t likely to take a chance on a deal that only pays him huge money if the business model continues to grow at an astounding rate. He seems willing to wait for the next promotion to come along and throw money at him: guaranteed money.
The problem with that is that Fedor was not getting guaranteed big money elsewhere. The Affliction deal included broadcast rights and cuts of the revenue, but those were based on the success of the show and Vadim’s pulling top dollar for broadcast rights.
Pride paid Fedor a cut of the gate, but again that was based on the success of the show.
I wonder what Snowden considers big money. Most of the UFC headliners take home between 1.5-3 million per fight after ppv money. For Fedor to make 2-3 million per fight, business would likely have to simply be strong for his shows, it would not have to “continue to grow at an astounding rate.”
To make 30 million, I am sure those cards would have to do the kind of numbers that 91, 92, 94 and 100 did. Is it likely? Depends on who he fights. Randy and Brock would almost certainly bring in crazy big numbers against Fedor.
Mirko and Nog? Good but not likely that big. I could see Carwin with a couple more big wins.
So Fedor’s lower end would still almost certainly be seven figures per fight.
This makes a lot more sense than the original reports. Fedor is an icon, but is not known in the U.S. and has never been a draw here. I have no doubt that his bouts would be huge with the UFC promotional machine behind him, but paying him based on the success of his shows makes sense. Especially since that was part of Strikeforce’s offer as well.
by Lynchman on Jul 30, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I agree.
Also, there’s nothing wrong with reporting the offer as a 30+ million dollar contract, even if it’s not guaranteed. That’s done in sports all the time, especially the NFL.
by a tommy point on Jul 30, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s fine, if there’s consistency, such as calling Brock Lesnar’s contract a $24 million contract…assuming all of his PPV buyrates are 1.5 and over.
I pointed this out above, but you probably didn’t want to read through all of it. I agree with this.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn, last night there was at least a little bit of optimism when it came to Fedor signing with the UFC still…now everyone is so sure it’s not gonna happen. I’m waiting to know for sure before I go buy my Ben and Jerry’s and watch chick flicks all night…(sniffle) Haha.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 30, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions
The main event of chick flick evening for you is probably Never Back Down, isn’t it?
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You know me too well Leland. haha
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 30, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Now you know how Iole feels
(1) If you side with the UFC, you’re a pawn of the UFC
(2) If you report favorable news of the UFC, you’re a pawn of the UFC
(3) If you disagree with Fedor, you’re a pawn of the UFC
(4) If the UFC treats you favorably and give you leaks, you’re a pawn of the UFC
But Iole is a pawn. Have you ever heard him “interview” Dana White on Steve Cofield’s show? It’s a joke how transparent his intentions are. His opinions are essentially Dana’s opinions. Maybe that’s because he doesn’t appear to have a tremendous amount of MMA knowledge to fall back on, but there are strong nuthugging overtones in most everything he says on those UFC recap shows.
I agree with your overall point, though, as that sort of labeling is prevalent within the MMA community. I’ve certainly been guilty of doing so in the past.
by a tommy point on Jul 30, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone please explain to me ...
… what exactly qualifies Zach Arnold to be judge and jury of the MMA media? What has he contributed to the news cycle about Fedor and the UFC? Has he picked up a phone and tried to verify the facts? In this or in any news story? Obviously not, considering he bit for the “Kimo is dead” stuff last week, which could have been refuted with a single call to the Orange County sheriff. Let’s see, you’ve got Bloody Elbow, which I don’t always agree with but respect because you attempt to portray the whole story, and you’ve got Fight Opinion, which doesn’t bother figuring out whether or not a fighter is breathing before posting links claiming that he’s dead, and then has the gall to lecture others on journalism ethics a week later. I think I’ll stick with BE, thanks.
Zach Arnold is that guy who you saw a really good movie with, and everyone’s stoked walking out of the theatre and he goes “meh, it was okay.” The dude’s just an eternal critic.
What’s ironic is that Kevin Iole is the one who got the Kimo story right.
ROFL!
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 30, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Zach is slipping into some kind of weird permanent voice of opposition thing, kind of like a less crazy Ivan Trembow. There’s some value to that, but his instincts for latching onto issues isn’t as good as it once was (two recent misfires: Brock Lesnar’s advocates think he’s an American Sakuraba; the “exclusive” tag on a BE story). The other problem is that I’m increasingly getting the idea that Zach is trying to establish a sphere of influence in MMA, and that’s leading him towards some pretty questionable figures—just look at the comments section at his blog to get an idea who I’m talking about. Zach Arnold, Ivan Trembow, and Alan Conceicao: even if they’re occasionally right, who wants to wade into their bullshit to engage them?
by An Old Friend on Jul 30, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I really wanted to see them united as brothers ... :-(
" >
by Rob J Nathan on Jul 30, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
