Don't Blame Randy Couture for the Death of Affliction Entertainment

by Michael Rome on Jul 26, 2009 7:42 PM EDT in News Comment 216 comments

Jonathan Snowden wrote a piece for MMA Payout suggesting Randy Couture killed Affliction. I disagree with the argument, but everyone should take a look for themselves:

When Couture retired from the UFC in 2007 while still under contract, it was for two reasons: money and a chance to fight the undisputed world heavyweight champion Fedor Emelianenko. Affliction risked everything on the Couture-Emelianenko fight, throwing their business relationship with the UFC out the window for the chance to promote what many thought was the biggest heavyweight fight in the world. Couture was all in, or so they thought. The two stood face to face for an Affliction photo shoot to start getting fans excited about the fight, and Couture made an appearance at Affliction’s first PPV show July 19, 2008. It was all in an effort to get people talking about the next show, headlined in theory by the dream fight between the PRIDE and UFC champions. And then Couture stuck the knife in the back...

Already a millionaire several times over, Couture was in the perfect position to test Zuffa’s seemingly indefensible employment contracts. If anyone could wait them out, it was Couture, a fighter with money in the bank and several ancillary sources of income. But Couture was a 45-year-old man and could hear the clock ticking on his career. In the end, he did what was best for Randy Couture, returning to the UFC for a mega-fight with Brock Lesnar. And make no mistake: bad decisions by Atencio and Barnett put Affliction at risk. But, Couture killed the company.

It's undoubtedly true that Affliction's entire business plan was premised on getting the Randy vs. Fedor fight, and losing it doomed them. However, it's too far to say Randy killed the company. What killed the company was scaling the salaries assuming an initial buyrate of 300,000 buys for Tim Sylvia vs. Fedor Emelianenko, and an eventual million buys for Randy vs. Fedor.

There's an inconvenient fact missing from this piece that prevents Affliction from blaming Randy: they never had the rights to this fight. Mark Cuban secured the rights to Fedor vs. Randy, and ended up bringing the UFC to court in Texas over the issue of Randy's contract. During the year Randy was outside of the UFC, his management looked at several different potential options for promoting this fight. Affliction was simply one of many, Randy never promised them that fight.

The tone of the article also raises certain questions to me. Why is it ok for the UFC, Affliction, Fedor, and virtually everyone else in the MMA business to act with their own self-interest in mind, but not Randy? How is Randy a villain for wanting to fight instead of spend years and millions of dollars in court fighting this thing? The UFC's victory in Texas that allowed arbitration to go forward ensured that the suit would drag on much further, and even then there was no guarantee of victory.

Affliction never had Randy-Fedor. They wanted it, but there were a number of other contenders vying for the fight, a number of which were far more promising from a financial perspective. They have nobody to blame but themselves for basing their promotion's entire hopes on an aging fighter's uphill legal battle against the UFC in a conflict that seemed ripe for settlement and reconciliation from the very beginning.

Josh Barnett didn't kill Affliction. Randy Couture didn't kill Affliction. M-1 Global didn't kill Affliction. Affliction killed Affliction.

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Comments

So, in other words, Affliction was their own Affliction

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 26, 2009 7:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

exactly. they should have never been in the fight game at all.

by bdw on Jul 26, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Rome, You wrote a great article!

I didn’t want this comment to go unnoticed. So often people don’t cover all angles when they’ve got a bad case of tunnel vision to make their point.

by JAYGK95 on Jul 26, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

If you’ve based your entire business off of one fight, you’ve already failed.

by nitro on Jul 26, 2009 7:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If you based your entire business off one fight that you obviously may never have the rights to then you are really just tilting at windmills. If the failure of Affliction was because they were dependent Randy Couture getting free of the UFC and deciding to fight Fedor on their show (even though he signed a contract with Mark Cuban’s HD Net) then that still puts the ball in Affliction’s management choices not in Randy Couture’s lap. I mean at the contracts they were paying fighters they would of still been in financial trouble with a Randy vs Fedor fight. Even now after two Affliction PPVs and all the media push they have put behind him Fedor isn’t much of a US draw but they were expecting him to draw a million buys last fall (has Randy ever drawn a million in the UFC besides the Lesnar fight)? Right there is your obvious reason why Affliction failed, incredibly poor business planning.

by who me on Jul 26, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Or one fighter, for that matter.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 26, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When I was a kid a friend of mine was going to get the next generation Nintendo so he started selling the games to the old system. I bought a game off of him for a great price. The next day he approached me and said that he’s not actually getting the new system and wants to buy the game back. I told him to piss off…it was my game now. Hey, it wasn’t my fault he was a dumbass and put the cart before the horse….or counted his chickens before the hatched.

Hey I’m going to start a business for harvesting moon dust. What? We haven’t been to the moon in 40 years and probably won’t be back for another 40? Shut up, you’re just doubters…does anyone have $40 million I can piss away?

by Reciprocity on Jul 27, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is exactly it.

I thought it was clear that I was saying it was Afflciiton’s obsession with Couture-Fedor that started things going the wrong direction. Of course Randy is not personally responsible…

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 27, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not sure how one can say that Affliction was aware of Couture’s legal situation and “pattern of behavior,” and then finish by asserting that “Couture killed the company.” I’ve got my doubts they could have made a go of it with Couture/Fedor, given the steep salaries they saddled themselves with.

That aside, it’s not as if Couture misrepresented himself or that his situation wasn’t in the public. As was stated above, Atencio and the rest of Affliction’s team was in charge. They made the decision to pin all their hopes on a bout that didn’t stand a high probability of happening, and it certainly wasn’t going happen quickly if it had materialized at all.

by Cannon Jacques on Jul 26, 2009 8:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

$150,000 for Antonio Rogerio Nogueira to fight on an undercard fight.

And since they charged $45 for a PPV, and they got less then half of it…. I think I read that they got like $15 per PPV…. That is 10,000 PPV Buys for a fighter not even on the main card.

That is stupid business.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Jul 26, 2009 8:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and that is just one of many examples. Vitor, Lindland, and many others weren’t just paid over market value…. They were paid salaries that made no logical sense. They could have signed them for half the amount without a problem.

by AlwaysRelaxing on Jul 26, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Giving Rothwell six figures was my favorite. After the death of the IFL, he would have been lucky 10K/10K out of Zuffa. Then along comes Affliction and offers him 10 times that amount.

Way to gauge the market fellas.

by Steve4192 on Jul 26, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

The tone and wording of the article makes it really obvious that it was written as a hit piece, especially since it was written by a lawyer who had to know exactly what he was writing.

Has the ownership of mmapayout.com changed? I’ve never followed it too closely, but it seems like the focus and tone of the site has really changed over the past year or so.

by Jahbulon on Jul 26, 2009 8:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

This is why i usually don’t bother reading anything Snowden writes. Nine times outta ten it’s a hit piece, or at least it seems that way to me. You can make a case for Couture v. Fedor killing Affliction, but Randy himself? I gotta lol at that.

by sadface on Jul 26, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like a lot of the stuff that Snowden writes but sometimes he really does seem to have a real deep bias that comes through in some of his articles and makes you question his motives for writing it.

by who me on Jul 26, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

MMAPayout has definitely changed.

I used to read it religiously when it was just Swift writing nuts and bolts financial analysis. I stopped reading when their new contributors started to steer the site towards editorializing.

by Steve4192 on Jul 26, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs

This. I was a huge fan of Payout when Swift started it.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 27, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wrote a piece for MMA Payout

Stopped reading right here.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 26, 2009 8:16 PM EDT reply actions 9 recs

Nice.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 26, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

rec’d…

and me too…

by Reaser16 on Jul 26, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MMA Payout started as a very good professional site. Lately it has fallen to a level of an editorial blog. Very few articles come even close to being journalism.

I wrote a letter expressing my concern but never heard back.

I don’t even bother with that site anymore.

by Lynchman on Jul 26, 2009 8:30 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs

why check other sites

Anything newsworthy out there BE will post it.

by steveoc24 on Jul 26, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

They used to be daily reading for me, now I don’t even follow links to there from other articles, they have really lost their way.

by who me on Jul 26, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Completely agree

I also wrote the same thing commenting on a previous post a couple weeks back. MMApayout used to be a site I visited every day too, but now the site is dead to me with obvious bias and negativity surrounding it. The site has honestly gotten to sherdog levels with its blatant agenda against anything UFC. Snowden has the nerve to actually imply that Couture should almost be villainized for doing what was best for himself? I’m done with their crap and will rely on bloodyelbow from now on to provide anything newsworthy from that garbage site.

by filipinomix2oo0 on Jul 26, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

totally agreed

Somewhere along the way it devolved from sharp business analysis to becoming part of the Fight Opinion conspiracy theorist crowd.

by andherewego on Jul 26, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

^ This

by Steve4192 on Jul 26, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The whole article is over the top, but this is my favorite line:

But the real culprit is a true American hero, or a titular one at least.

You can practically taste it.

by Jahbulon on Jul 26, 2009 8:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Oh it’s definitely a hit job, he’s not even trying to hide it. I wonder why?

by who me on Jul 26, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couture probably refused an interview for one of his books.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 26, 2009 10:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

JS accuses Couture of “walking out” on Team Quest. There was a lot more to his departure and he sold his share in the gym to the other guys. He did not walk out on them, he was not all that welcome after his divorce.

by Lynchman on Jul 26, 2009 8:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I blame Affliction for the death of Affliction.

Bloody Elbow Pound-for-Pound the Best in Ultimate Fighting (UFC) Commentary, News and Community

by ronniebonnie on Jul 26, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jonathan Snowden is a joke.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 26, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Did he stop coming around here?

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 26, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I haven’t seen him in a while – and I take full credit.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 26, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m guessing he had something of a flameout while I was away? Things became pretty heated between him and Nate on a few occasions.. I got along with him just fine most of the time, actually.

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 26, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm actually the only one here who gets along with him.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 27, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are brilliant and a true scholar.

I probably came on too hard and too strong here. It’s too late to change that. Still enjoy the site very much, even the stuff I don’t agree with. It makes the world more interesting to be challenged by ideas, even ones you eventually decide are bad ideas.

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 27, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like blaming Randy Couture for the fall of Affliction, for instance. How dare he not burn every dollar trying to get out of an ironclad contract.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Randy made a decision that was right for him. I don’t blame him for that. Affliction does though. :)

I don’t think that contract is ironclad, FWIW.

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 27, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aw, come on. I deserve to share in some of the spoils sir.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 27, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m like you on PED’s.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just a quick note. I still read Bloody Elbow every day. It’s my favorite MMA site. I just don’t have time, with a couple of massive projects, to engage much in the comments. Since this makes people happy, I guess it is for the best. :)

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 27, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nah… you’re a good foil

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah Jonathan

You’re like our Brock Lesnar (except for guys like me and subo who love Brock), we need you around to make things more interesting.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 27, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One of us…one of us…gooble gobble, one of us…

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Jul 27, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I haven’t seen him in a while – and I take full credit.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 26, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

TODD BEARD

One other very important note: One of Affliction’s founders,Todd Beard, had a restraining order issued against him. He did not leave Affliction until over two months after Randy signed back with the UFC.
Randy was already having some business issues with Affliction regarding the numbers.

by Lynchman on Jul 26, 2009 8:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

beat me to it

great minds

Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes

by Paynuss on Jul 26, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why not todd beard

if you have to put a single face on it

or maybe whoever was supposed to be responsible for keeping him leashed

Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes

by Paynuss on Jul 26, 2009 8:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Douche

The dude who wrote the initial article is a douche. If Randy had the Fedor fight within his grasp he would have taken it. Stop all this speculation about who killed Affliction. It was their shitty business model and moving too fast in an industry that requires patience and knowledge

by drudog1715 on Jul 26, 2009 9:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Jonathan Snowden does post here occasionally, it would be interesting to hear from him why he wrote it like that.

by who me on Jul 26, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he just

coined a new term, “douchebagery” noun, a dumbass that blames someone for someone elses problems, then tries to write an article to make themselves sound smarter, and try to sound knowledgeable about something the know nothing about.

by proflex on Jul 26, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

It looks better with a double g – douchebaggery.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 26, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs

"Moving too fast"

Sounds funny when said about a promotion that only put on 2 events in a year and a half.

by Razreshat on Jul 27, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Well...

How long has Strikeforce been around and how long has Affliction. To take on the pay per view business and try to go head to head with the UFC in your first show is moving fast. Other promotions are moving slower and steadier

by drudog1715 on Jul 27, 2009 2:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

#1 affliction killer: lack of foresight

by woooburn on Jul 26, 2009 9:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow

@ saying Couture killed Affliction…that is laughable.

http://www.mmaforreal.com
Follow Me On Twitter@MMA4Real

by Kelvin Hunt on Jul 26, 2009 9:20 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

Rome getting all the lady re-tweets.

Disintegration -- I'm taking it in stride.
Follow me on Twitter.

by Eugene Schelfaut on Jul 26, 2009 9:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Snowden

is often arrogant and misinformed. Par for the course.

by Nick Travaglini on Jul 26, 2009 9:24 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs

Only when he's awake

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 26, 2009 10:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

I'm new here

and there seems to be a lot of hate for this guy. Any chance someone can fill me in?

by Shaun32887 on Jul 27, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I won't tell you how to think

Read his writing and let us know if you disagree.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If it’s just his writings I’ll check them out. The feeling I got was that there was a falling out on this website, possibly from a single incident.

For what its worth, I thought this article was crap; borderline comedy.

by Shaun32887 on Jul 27, 2009 3:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Go to his profile page and read some of his comments, everything he says comes off as arrogant and snobbish. His opinion is the only opinion. And he knows more about MMA than anyone in the whole world.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 27, 2009 9:12 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

It’s no small wonder that I don’t mind him then, eh?

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The guy did write a book on MMA history. I even have a DVD of Pancrase fights that he dubbed his own commentary over. The guy loves MMA and really knows his stuff, but he can be an aggressive conversationalist. I’ve never found him to be arrogant, personally, but he does push people to respond in a way that can kind of wear on your nerves after a long day.

by An Old Friend on Jul 27, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I blame Randys left ear for the failure of affliction.

Clearly that thing is developing its own intelligence.

by DirtyML on Jul 26, 2009 9:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tito maybe the cause, heard Tito's wife had Randy ear fetish.

Seriously, I think Snowden’s article is a pretty useless. And a blog about a useless article useless squared. My comment on an useless….(hopefully you can figure out where I go with this).

On the other hand, HDNet had the rights to the fight for a few reasons, Every fight promoter not named UFC wanted to get Randy out of his contract. Here’s what I suspect happend, required mediation in Nevada by the contract wouldn’t and couldn’t do that. A non Nevada corporation had that chance. Affliction didn’t want to be the villain involved in a UFC contract dispute. I doubt very much that Affliction would not have gotten the rights from HDNet. Couture wasn’t getting out of his contract anytime soon once courts rejected moving from Nevada.

Thus, Snowden should be blaming HDNet’s bad Lawyers for the fall of Affliction. Or he could blame Cuban, Personally I’m blaming Nowitski’s former squeeze for distracting Cuban.

by natyong on Jul 26, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The idiots who write for MMAPAYOUT would be on sherdog posting making threads about “Kimbo being able to beat Brock” if domain names weren’t so cheap.

by mmalogic on Jul 26, 2009 9:33 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs

I’m not a great fan of Robert Joyner’s work, but Snowden did write arguably the best overview of MMA history (depending on how you feel about Clyde Gentry’s book, which doesn’t include the post-TUF era). Having said that, I disagree with him here.

by An Old Friend on Jul 26, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow,

is it just me or did anyone else feel a little dumber for reading that. Blaming Courture for the death of Affliction? What? Why not Barnnett? Maybe Fedor’s management? Or let us just focus the blame on where it actually lays, Affliction management. Bad business sense, makes bad business decisions, and thats how a company goes out of business. While we are on the subject, why don’t we compare Courture to Berny Madoff.

by proflex on Jul 26, 2009 9:58 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

This is crazier than that CroCop conspiracy theory.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Jul 26, 2009 10:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Obviously, having Couture resign with the UFC was a blow to Affliction’s initial plans, but to blame their failure on Couture is a bit crazy.

by McEwen on Jul 26, 2009 10:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So Randy who, unlike Affliction, had a little bit more foresight and realized that his fight to get out of his Zuffa contract was doomed and decided to lay his sword down is to blame?

- Insanely shortsighted business plan
- Grossly overpaid fighters
- Ridiculous feel for the market

I could go on and on with reasons why Affliction failed but saying Couture is to blame is asinine.

by Sergio Hernandez on Jul 26, 2009 10:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs

The sense I’m getting is pretty much everything that could go wrong for Affliction did go wrong, and what went right did so at huge cost.

So, basically, the one word for affliction is phyrric?

by toxic on Jul 26, 2009 10:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I just don’t understand how people like this get paid to opine on mixed martial arts.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 26, 2009 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

Controversy brings attention? Snowden seems to draw attention to himself every time he says something. Not for the right reasons either.

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 26, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m assuming this Snowden fellow is in bed with all sorts of people. As someone who doesn’t know anyone else who is a fan of MMA, let alone anybody in the business, navigating all of the hidden agendas among MMA writers is really strange, especially since full disclosure is almost non existent in the MMA world. One of the reasons I like this site is that it seems like Luke is really up front about those things.

by Jahbulon on Jul 26, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs

amen to that

by woooburn on Jul 26, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

“I’m assuming this Snowden fellow is in bed with all sorts of people”

He was involved with WAMMA, that tells you everything you need to know about him.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 26, 2009 11:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs

I’m not in bed with anyone in the MMA business. Unlike some others I don’t work for any promotions nor do I want to, don’t intend to apply for jobs with Zuffa or anyone else, am not going to work with anyone on their autobiography, and generally try not to let whether or not I liked someone personally influence what I write.

When I write something stupid, it’s because I am an idiot, not because of some agenda. I like Randy. I liked Tom Atencio too. I think the hard tagline and the headlien are misrepresenting what I wrote, which tends to be a problem. I will try to be better about assuming that readers will read between the lines and be more explicit.

So: I don’t believe Randy Couture is actually responsible for the demise of Affliction. My article is gently poking fun at Affliction for stupidly basing their business plan on a fight that wasn’t likely to ever happen….

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 27, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs

When I write something stupid, it’s because I am an idiot, not because of some agenda.

Rec’d for this…I might steal this for my signature line if you don’t mind.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 27, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re not still involved with WAMMA… are you?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My only involvement in WAMMA was to send them a list of rankings monthly. That was it.

I don’t think anyone asked last month though. Could be they have breathed their last. Probably Couture’s fault.

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 27, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs

Definitely.

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greened for having a sense of humor about all this.

Shameless self-promotion! http://twitter.com/scb0212
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Jul 27, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the reply.

All I really want is for MMA journalists and pundits to be upfront about where they are coming from, which almost never happens now. I’m sure you understand how frustrating it is for a fan of MMA like myself to wade through articles without knowing who has done business for who, who’s friends with who, what’s the real agenda and so on. Furthermore, sometimes it’s difficult to tell who’s writing from their mother’s basement and who has the Pav on speed dial. I’ll take you at your word that you are clean, especially since you bothered to defend yourself, but you’d concede that many MMA journalists conceal their biases while acting like they should be above reproach, right?

This is obviously a problem with journalism across the board, but it exasperated in MMA because of how inbred the world of MMA is. My favorite example of this is the MMA Nation show where Luke talked about UWC, War Machine, War’ Machine’s manager, sherdog, Loretta Hunt, and the story about managers getting backstage passes for UFC events (which originated from War Machine’s manager). I’m using Luke as an example, because he is my favorite pundit and because I believe he has integrity, but take a piece of paper and write down all of the names and organizations involved in the various stories on that show and then draw lines connecting them to symbolize the various relationships. How can a consumer of MMA media like myself navigate that spider’s web if people like you aren’t up front about where you are coming from?

I apologize since it seems I’ve used you unjustly to make a larger point. But it is an important point that I don’t want to let go of. Most MMA pundits acting like us fans are unreasonable when we question them about their biases. The standard defense is always to say “some people say I’m biased against X, some people say I’m biased in favor of X” as if that proves the writer is in the middle. Sorry, it doesn’t. It only proves that many MMA fans are idiots. Full disclosure is the only acceptable remedy. I think it is great that you are willing to defend yourself without condescension.

Also, if you are writing satire or snark, you should label it as such.

by Jahbulon on Jul 27, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Despite our differences (and I don’t remember what they are or why we have been feuding), I think Luke and I have a lot in common. We both come from military backgrounds where integrity is preached as a way of life.

I may say plenty of things you don’t agree with, but it won’t ever be because I have an unspoken agenda. I agree with you about the state of MMA journalism. The business is rife with conflicts of interest, and unfortunately, they start at the top of the pyramid. Many of our favorite reporters, even one’s many at BE respect, have agendas and business relationships and friendships that preclude them from giving an honest opinion.

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 27, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes I write things to garner a reaction, because the fallout tends to sell books. How is that for open and honest? It will never be far from my opinion, but it may be my opinion amped up on crack.

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 27, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This reply completely changes my opinion about your article. Good stuff.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jul 27, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed, just wish he had made that a little more clear in the beginning.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 27, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I liked Tom Atencio too.

Obviously I have never met the guy, but I like him too, he seems sincere and a genuine fan of the game. I just hate, Hate, HATE the way he ran his promotion.

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 27, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And the outlandish finger pointing begins…

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 26, 2009 10:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We’ve got a witch, may we burn her?

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Jul 26, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Let’s see if she floats first.

by Steve4192 on Jul 26, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lolz

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 27, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Piss poor hit job.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jul 26, 2009 10:51 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

That’s a bit absurd.

Randy may have been able to wait out the contract thing and fight a little longer, but what would be the point? It would have cost him a bunch more money, AND it became apparent that there was no way for his take home pay for Randy/Fedor to be anywhere near the take home pay for Randy/Brock.

Part of the reason Randy went back to the UFC was because Affliction did such a crappy job with their first show, that Randy realized that wasn’t where the money was at. You can’t say it’s Randy’s fault when Randy’s decision was heavily influenced by Affliction’s actions.

by Phildo on Jul 26, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That's the craziest thing i've heard since

Friday, when Brandon Vera basically called out Brock Lesnar on that ESPN 1100 Radiothon. Saying he wants that fight in the near future and trying to make a case how he’d beat him.

by Lewish on Jul 26, 2009 11:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

He was basically cutting a promo the whole time he was on and talking like he’d just rattled off ten straight. I’m one of his few remaining believers, but he’s really got to ease up on his gloating until he’s actually done something.

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 26, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah… boys got talent but so far he has chocked in pretty much every big fight.

by mmalogic on Jul 26, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

what Snowden is trying to do

is come up with a different angle than all the other MMA writers out there, something that will make him seem unique and more of a commodity.

but writing a shitty hit-job on one of the most-loved MMA fighters out there is certainly not the way to do it.

Fail. Completely and utterly.

by bobthewriter on Jul 26, 2009 11:28 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

Keep and eye out for his next article “GSP is on steroids but I have no proof”

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 27, 2009 9:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

among other things

wrong with this article, how does Snowden know Randy was a millionaire several times over at the time he was on the outs with the UFC? He broke in when there was little money to be made; he’s been divorced more than once and alimony takes a big chunk, and he’s still fighting at 46. Sure his competitive drive is amazing, but if he really was that financially well off, I doubt he’d still be getting hit in the face at his age.

by andherewego on Jul 26, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Who gives a shit about this… who the fuck is this idiot snowden anyway.

VITOR IS BACK MUTHERFUCKERS!

by mmalogic on Jul 26, 2009 11:34 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs

Bless you logic.. bless you

Kuwabara Kuwabara

by J. B. Maddox on Jul 26, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um, source? jk

Friday, right?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 26, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lots of announcements coming at the press conference and beyond…Changes to 103 will most likely be announced before that.

If Suppremacy was a UFC nuthugger there would be over a million fanposts in the next 3 weeks.

by mmalogic on Jul 26, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

If Supremacy was a UFC nuthugger I’d seriously reconsider my allegiances.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 26, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have about a dozen pairs of Converse an a pitcher of juice for the day that happens.

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He can’t post anything. He’s at a seaside rehab centre recovering with other Fedor fans.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Jul 26, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

It’s a center, you maple syrup drinking basta… oh sorry, that was Fagan.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 26, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs

We don’t drink maple syrup, we drink beer that tastes like beer.

I speak the queen’s english, you knuckle dragging beshitted mountain man.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Jul 26, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs

That means a lot coming from sophisticated, cultivated, metropolitan… Canada.

Also, theater.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I seen lots of art and stuff, and I had some really bad red wine in Quebec once, so I’m cultured and shit.

Its spelled theatre, you neck-bearded NASCAR watching cousin marrying web-footed redneck.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Jul 27, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s it’s, you flannel wearing CFL watching timber cutting maple leaf chucker.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My dad was a lumberjack, you fast food guzzling truck ballz buying illiterate gun nut.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Jul 27, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s Truck Nutz®. You guys have more guns per capita than we do. I’ll give you the fast food thing.

Canada – America’s hat.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes we have more guns per capita, but we need them to deal with rogue moose in heat.

America – Canada’s bean bag chair.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Jul 27, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You people created Tom Green and Snow (the rapper).

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And don't forget

Bryan Adams.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Canadian government has apologized for Bryan Adams on numerous occasions.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

I reject their apologies until his music is permanently pulled from the radio.

I love South Park.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m watching Imaginationland as we speak. I think they should stay away from politics, but a lot of it is gold.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think their political stuff

is often where they do their finest work.

But I’m watching Imaginationland right now, also. Al Gore’s ManBearPig arc is absolutely hilarious.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Apologies don’t make the pain go away though do they?

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 27, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This got me laughing out loud! Thanks!

by Nick Travaglini on Jul 27, 2009 3:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hahaha

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Canadian beer has nothing on Texas beer

by Shaun32887 on Jul 27, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wocka wocka!

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 27, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly, the fact that you picked BJ in that fight is more embarrassing.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The sad part is: these guys like supremacy arent even Fedor Fans.

Watch what happens as soon as he comes to the UFC. These guys are simply Zuffa haters.

by mmalogic on Jul 26, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They’ll be akin to NFL/NBA/PGA haters soon enough, as loving the sport and hating the organization will become unthinkable.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is supremacy in the business or some sort of obsessed super-fan?

by Jahbulon on Jul 27, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Latter.

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL. You STILL don’t know what you are talking about. Most Fedor fans WANT him to go to the UFC to prove everyone wrong and establish his legacy as the best HW in the world.

I already wrote in a post that I am good wherever Fedor lands, and if he goes to the UFC, then it will be great to prove all the people that question him wrong, or he loses. Either way, it will shut everyone up about Fedor ducking the UFC.

I was around back when people were criticizing Fedor for ducking the UFC because Timmy, the UFC HW champ, had all that it took to beat Fedor. I LOL’ed at them before, and I will LOL at this now.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Fedor ducks the UFC again, we won’t shut up about him doing so.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So you are implying that Fedor ducked the UFC the first time because he was scared of Tim Sylvia, LOL. =)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not at all, actually. I don’t think anyone knows why he does it but him. But it needs to stop, unless he’s ready to take a steeeeeeep cut in both pay and prestige. The UFC is the only place worthy of Fedor.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I really do think that

Fedor will begin to erode into irrelevance if he doesn’t sign with the UFC this time around. There simply isn’t enough talent outside the UFC to maintain proof that they belong ranked where they are. Fedor has basically already run the gamut of non-UFC heavyweights. There’s nothing left for him to build his record with outside the UFC.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This isn't to suggest

that Fedor’s current legacy will somehow be erased, but anything he does from here on is basically futile and will result in his sliding down the rankings.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt he will slide down the rankings if he fights Werdum, Rogers, and Overeem, who are ranked fighters. I mean, of course he eventually will, but not after maybe 3 more fights outside of the UFC.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Strikeforce wasn’t going to lend their HWs out to Affliction – and they’re not criminally stupid enough to pay Fedor – then how do any of those fights happen?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just saying, it is still technically possible.
DREAM could easily host Overeem vs Fedor, etc

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Verdum?

Really? Overeem is interesting, but c’mon, Strikeforce isn’t going to let Fedor fight him, and there’s no way they can/will agree to Fedor’s demands.

Those three are not even close to top-ranked fighters, anyways. Fedor would be the overwhelming favorite in any of those fights. All he could do is lose face in any of those fights.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Fedor would be the overwhelming favorite against ANY fighter.
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lesnar opened as a +190 dog. That’s hardly overwhelming.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Still a favorite, and those lines are on a fight that is just fantasy at this point. Wait until it becomes official, if that ever happens.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The point stands.

Fedor isn’t going to be able to make positive headway compared to the field if he doesn’t start fighting the best in the UFC.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude, the flood of casual fan money would probably make Lesnar a favorite.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Incorrect. Being a -200ish is a heavy heavy favorite.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 27, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Overeem hasn’t impressed you at all this past 18 months?

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 27, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Overeem.

But he’s fighting through the same problem Fedor is, mainly that there isn’t enough talent to test himself against outside the UFC.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Omitting his K-1 success, he’s 2-1-1 at HW with wins over Buentello and Hunt and a loss to Kharitonov (who lost to Monson).

Is he an intriguing HW prospect? Yes. Does he have the resume to be in the conversation of Fedor’s next fight? ZOMG no.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

I want to see another MMA HW KO Badr Hari.
=)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Overeem vs. Hari in the MMA fight they supposedly shook hands on, please.

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This.

K-1 was an eye-opener on one of his abilities, but he’s not more than an interesting prospect right now, relative to the HW stable in the UFC.

There are a half dozen guys in the UFC I’d pick in a heartbeat to take him out handily.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Half dozen guys? Wow.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’d put him against any of the current UFC ‘prospects’

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 27, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I’m in the minority on Overeem around here, but he’s a killer. My only concern about his viability in the US is if he can cycle off (let’s not even argue this, por favor).

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, if you criticize Overeem’s opponent list, who has Carwin or Cain beaten at HW to warrant a fight against Fedor?

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's a poor argument, I think.

They’re all younger guys, but I’d definitely bet stronger on Carwin or Cain if they fought Fedor than I would on Overeem, and I think a lot of people here agree.

That’s the point.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats an opinion. Dont critique Overeems list of fighters if you can’t do that for all fighters as well.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude

Carwin is 11-0 with a win over Gonzaga. Cain is 6-0 with a win over Kongo. Overeem is 2-1-1 with wins over Buentello and Hunt.

Not. Even. Close.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Come on, you know Overeem was throwing Cro Cop around like a rag doll as well.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A no contest is a no contest is a no contest – and either way, his resume at HW doesn’t have a third as many wins as Cain Velasquez, whom Carwin has almost doubled.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm siding with Sup here

Watching Overeem fight and watching Valasquez fight, Overeem would take his lunch money.

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Pfft

Velasquez would put Overeem on his back and watch him flail like a turtle on his shell.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Towel snaps

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Overeem throws everybody around for the first three minutes of a fight. He has always been a fast starter, so the fact that he looked good in the opening minutes of a no contest doesn’t really tell us anything.

For all we know, Mirko would have weathered the storm (as Chuck, Shogun, & countless others have) and then proceeded to beat the crap out of a gassed Overeem.

by Steve4192 on Jul 27, 2009 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that is sooo 2004

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 27, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Closer than you think.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um no further than you think

/schoolyard tactics

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again, not the point.

Fight record is only one part of projecting future performance. It’s a very important part, but it’s not everything (see Lesnar vs. Mir I compared to Lesnar vs. Mir II).

But unless you’re going to argue that there’s more talent residing outside the UFC than inside it, your argument is a hollow one.

Also, what subo said.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

These are all opinions. Some can be high on Rogers and Overeem as potential fights for Fedor, others on Cain and Carwin.

In reality, most of these guys still need better wins at HW and in case of the UFC guys, more fights and experience.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

shit guys, I wanna see all 4 get their shot at Fedor!

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 27, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then root for Fedor and Overeem to come to the UFC.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In reality, most of these guys still need better wins at HW and in case of the UFC guys, more fights and experience.

Overeem needs better wins AND more experience to belong in this conversation.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm confused

Why does Alistair Overeem need more experience? He’s got 40 pro fights and some huge victories. His story is really that he’s become a much more imposing force than he was in the past.

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s 2-1-1 at HW. I find the Overeem hype more stifling than the Mousasi hype, and Mousasi hasn’t even fought at LHW yet. Nobody’s talking him up as Machida’s next opponent, however.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So guys start over when they change divisions? It doesn’t effect his viability as a challenger. Did you watch the CroCop fight? He was throwing him around like his kid brother.

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jul 27, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus, you have to remember that every HW is 1 or 2 good wins away from being a top ranked fighter. Looked what happened to Rogers, Mir, Lesnar, etc.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 27, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some people just feel claustrophobic in contracts as tight as the UFC’s. Fedor has been doing quite well for himself up til now…

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 27, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And now the HW landscape outside the UFC is barren, devoid of top ten talent (Monson is a fringe case, Orereem not even close)

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We’re all eager to see what happens next that’s for sure.

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 27, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we’ll all agree with that.

But every time something like this gets brought up and left unresolved, it tears away a little more of our interest.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It tears away a little of my soul, but my interest is as strong as ever.

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Jul 27, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather see Forrest Griffin fight fedor than either of them

We know he’s better than monson, and I believe he’s better than overreem.

Anderson Silva, for that matter.

Point being, there are not only better HW fighters for fedor in the UFC than out, there’s better lower weight fighters in the ufc than alistair and monson too.

Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes

by Paynuss on Jul 27, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would much rather see Fedro fight in LHW than HW to be honest.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 27, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s just because you want to see Machida beat him.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I want to see Machida beat everyone.

A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

by iiowyn on Jul 27, 2009 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you've got a point there.

His frame is pretty much perfect for it, and he’d simply annihilate most of the LHW’s with his striking power. I can’t think of a LHW who matches up with his transition ability on the ground, either…

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think it’s that easy. I don’t know if Fedor has ever, ever cut weight.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking about fighters going up to him

rather than vice versa. I have a hard time telling how much weight people are capable of cutting, though.

Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes

by Paynuss on Jul 27, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't seem his style

I think he likes to fight at his natural weight, rather than gain or lose weight to reach a competitive standard.

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

VITOR IS BACK MUTHERFUCKERS!

In the UFC? (crosses fingers)

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Jul 26, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fingers crossed for Hendo/Belfort for WW title shot.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 26, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn, that’s a lot of weight cutting.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Jul 26, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I think GSP needs a challenge.

/defending stupid mistake

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hendo doesn’t need both legs.

Keep firing Assholes!

Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.

by Ubernoober on Jul 27, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to beat Bisping, he doesn’t.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

by subo on Jul 27, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He could at least have done without the left arm.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jul 27, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Finkie came to the US expecting a payday… He’s got a show coming up and no dough to steal from Fedor to pay for it.

Even worse than affliction basing their entire business around 1 fight (fedor vs couture) is this greedy scumbag thief basing his entire cash flow around stealing from 1 fighter.

by mmalogic on Jul 26, 2009 11:56 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs

“Finkie came to the US expecting a payday… He’s got a show coming up and no dough to steal from Fedor to pay for it.”

Good point logic I hadn’t considered this. You can bet your ass Finkie is scrambling around trying to scrounge up enough dough to put on their event. UFC signing bonus anyone?

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 27, 2009 9:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

what a ridiculous article based on a ridiculous premise

maybe that snowden guy is trying to generate traffic to his site by posting something controversial so that people can talk about it

by theblade on Jul 27, 2009 12:12 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Randy killed Affliction? That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

And I’m drunk right now, so that’s saying something.

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on Jul 27, 2009 2:21 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Ugh.

"Japan panics about the rise of "grass-eating men," who shun sex, don’t spend money, and like taking walks."

Did they all get married?

- Ubernoober

by SamCupitt on Jul 27, 2009 4:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Is Jonathan Snowden = Username "Coleko" on here?

Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo

by ANance on Jul 27, 2009 4:36 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

LOL

One heavyweight tournament in one night, then you fight Fedor? Yeah, sounds like a good idea.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Jul 27, 2009 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can’t respond to everyone individually, but will write a general response and you can pick it apart as you see fit. It’s funny to see the vitriole here when Rome basically agrees with the entire premise of my article:

“It’s undoubtedly true that Affliction’s entire business plan was premised on getting the Randy vs. Fedor fight, and losing it doomed them.”

The rest is just quibbling over headlines and some details that don’t fit in a 500 word blog post.

1. Obviously, the title of the article is tongue-in-cheek. As was the entire premise of the piece. Clearly Randy Couture did not personally kill Affliction. A lot of bad decisions did that. It was the idea, the pipe dream, of a Couture-Fedor fight that led them down the wrong path. The rest they did on their own.

2. I don’t agree that Mark Cuban had the “rights” to promote Couture-Fedor. It was going to be Affliction, in partnership with Cuban and HDNet. This is why Cuban’s attorneys got involved. No one can say whether Randy would have gotten out of his contract or not. I think so. Maybe I am wrong? This is why they go to court. People were relying on him to see it through and he didn’t. I’m not saying it was wrong or right. It was probably the right move for him. That doesn’t mean it didn’t kill Afflcition.

3. I don’t have any personal problems with Couture. He’s always been gracious to me. I can’t, and won’t, let that affect my opinions or what I write.

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 27, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Until he sticks a knife in your back?

That’s a bit of serious language about someone you don’t have a problem with.

Perhaps you should have refrained from that sort of dialogue if you didn’t want to come across as Anti-Couture.

by Razreshat on Jul 27, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree. In retrospect that is probably not in keeping with my overall theme. It was, however, the way they felt about it. Look at the Todd Beard reaction as proof…

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 27, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to disagree that the title, or some of the language used within the body of the story, were tongue in cheek. You certainly could have made concessions to see to it that that was more evident to the reader. Beyond that, however, I understand your premise of Affliction putting all of their eggs in one basket. Some people take exception to the fact that your article almost definitely nails Couture as the gunman in a car full of suspects. Randy did what was best for him, for a myriad of reasons I won’t begin to explore. Atencio tried to do the same for his MMA promotion. Unfortunately, one of them has a history of making sensible business decisions in the mixed martial arts industry and the other makes a living off of gaudy t-shirts and bit off more than he can chew. My opinion is that no one individual is to blame, and it took a lengthy combination of various poor business decisions to reach this inevitable end. The economic model of Affliction was unsustainable, so much so that it was apparent before their first production. Most of us knew that, short of a miracle, their days were always numbered.

"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."

by Blackout612 on Jul 27, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs