Fedor Emelianenko's Manager Vadim Finkelchtein Says There Could Be an Opportunity With the UFC
by Kid Nate on Jul 26, 2009 12:42 PM EDT
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From the M-1 Global web site:
"We are now with Fedor in the U.S. and we hope to make a decision about his next fight within the next few days," Finkelchtein stated. "There are many business meetings and negotiations planned with all the major promotions. We will explore the possibility of Fedor fighting Barnett and will even look into whether the fight can take place as soon as August (since Barnett has not been suspended)."
Finkelchtein also believes that the cancellation of "Trilogy" could be used as an opportunity to jump start stagnant negotiations to bring Fedor to the UFC.
"This is the moment of truth that the UFC has talked about. Fedor and I are here in the States. If they want to come out and fly here, we are ready to conduct negotiations. Of course it still doesn’t imply we are ready to accept any conditions they’ll throw at us. We want to talk to the UFC about having Fedor compete against some of their fighters, but only within the framework of co-promotional efforts with M-1 Global."
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There's an opportunity sure..
If the UFC allows them to leach over them too..
but only within the framework of co-promotional efforts with M-1 Global."
that line really pisses me off.. You can get fedor, If we can join in with you and earn some cash at the same time..
I think it's all posturing...
Is there really anybody left willing to sign Fedor’s fat paychecks? Coker’s too smart to blow that kind of money on one fighter. Japanese MMA is in shambles, and they can put on plenty of freak show fights without million dollar paydays. Who’s left? Is he going to fight in M-1 and throw away the millions he could be making in the UFC? With Japanese MMA on life support, EliteXC dead and Affliction dead, the UFC’s the only viable option. At least that’s what I hope…
Well it was reported that Strikeforce offered Fedor 500-700k a fight and complete freedom to fight anywhere he wants. Why do u think he’ll get millions in the UFC ? Frank Mir , heavyweight contender , got about 100 Ks if I remember correctly .
According to whatever source you’re getting that Mir got 100k from, Fedor only got 300k for fighting AA and Tim. Those numbers are pretty much useless.
Mir is an terrible example
Maybe you don’t remember Frank Mir from two years ago, but I do and so did Dana.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Please!
The ufc is not doing ANY copromotional events with M1 Global. If that’s your attitude, go back to Russia and compete in Sambo. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
agreed
“but only within the framework of co-promotional efforts with M-1 Global.” at least he saved dana a plane ride out there….. they might as well have said, ’there’s no possibility of fedor ever fighting in the ufc."
by cagefightonacid on Jul 26, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Copromote
In the business world I’m in, to copromote something means you put up money to get a piece of the back end. It doesn’t just mean you get to use our name.
Here’s the copromote deal: Fedor can wear the logo M1 Global on his shorts and tee shirt. And we’ll call that a copromote.
by pwdminotauro on Jul 26, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
There you have it. Fedor will never fight in the UFC as long as his retarded management is trying to make a quick buck.
OK, thanks for stopping by, have fun in Japan.
by nitro on Jul 26, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 14 recs
I don’t understand why M-1 or Fedor thinks this is a fair request.
Fedor may be the best, but it’s time for him to step up and go where the fights are or retire. There is no where else in the world with a legitimate heavyweight division and this is not how reasonable fight promotions operate.
All for one and one for all!
by Mixed Martial Adam on Jul 26, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions
M-1 is a parasite. They throw the word “co-promote,” but what does that actually mean? To me, it just seems like something such as " You can use Fedor as long as you advertise and mention us in your broadcast." Other than that, what does M-1 do to actually help to “promote” the fight. Is M-1 helping in advertising or anything that helps to actually promote the fight?
It's really just a way to pay Finkie
He can’t say I as manager take 50%, but he can swing some BS about co promotion and get more money for himself that way. Maybe hes convinced Fedor they can keep M1 going when Fedor retires, but I think that’s very unlikely at least as any meaningful entity. Fedor isn’t enough to build a promotion…In the US or Japan.
its interesting to note a change in opinion on this, more people are being sympathetic to dana and the UFC than in the past
by davec84 on Jul 26, 2009 12:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
WE, always thought dana was scared to have fedor come in and kill his heavy weight division. but with years of fedor dodging the UFC and quality fights, i defend fedor as a top fighter, but easily manipulated by the theives (M-1) that leach off him, and keep him undefeated by steering clear of the ufc.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
ALSO – The UFC didn’t just go tits up and cancel their main event leaving Fedor fightless.
Why should the UFC be flying out to THEM and taking a ridiculous co-promotion offer. If M-1 was serious about making a good business move they would be calling the UFC immediately to set something up. If Fedor doesn’t have opponents or an organization to fight in, it’s pretty insane to be pretending there are other legitimate options for Fedor.
All for one and one for all!
by Mixed Martial Adam on Jul 26, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions
The thing is Fedor will always have a home with the Japanese fight fans. Sure there isn’t as much money over there but at least he will be able to continue the smoke and mirrors game if he wants to.
But it’s not about the smoke and mirrors for the Fink. It’s about money.
It looks like soon he will get more money taking a percentage from the 1 million dollar fight purse and 2% of every PPV plus sponsors that Fedor will get for fighting in the UFC under thier standard contract, then he would from anyone that would be willing to copromote with M1.
When that happens, they’ll drop the crap, but as of right now they can still hope that someone will come around and throw a bunch of cash at them.
The comment-hate is pretty funny.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jul 26, 2009 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Some of us want to see the best fight the best. Damn us!
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 26, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You’d think we as fans would realize that whatever dream fights we want to see will never become a reality untill the hype dies down almost completely.
I do too. I also feel fighter’s should fight for whatever money/benefits as they can get.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Well, Fedor can’t get that kind of scratch anywhere else now. If he doesn’t come to the UFC now, it’s not because of money.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 26, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And in addition to the M-1 co-promotion nonsense, Fedor himself has talked about how he does not want a “champion’s clause” in his contract.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Here come the cries of:
“But, but, but the clause is only in place for three fights or one year!”
As though that should somehow make the clause relatively benign in Fedor’s eyes. A year is a long ass time for a fighter to sit out when he could otherwise be garnering some nice paydays.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Fedor hasn’t fought for 6 months and he has no fights scheduled, is a year really that much longer?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 26, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He fights twice a year as of late. There’s plenty of time left in 09.
Is it a certainty that he’ll fight before the year is up? After recent developments, that’s up in the air. He still has options, though.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He fought once last year
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Oh, come on, that’s a bit of trickery. He fought on New Year’s Eve, then in July, then in mid-January. That’s effectively fighting every 6 months/twice a year.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Look, the fact is that he thinks he’s so damn special that he’s too good to sign the same contract Brock Lesnar, Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida, Georges St Pierre, BJ Penn, Mike Brown and Miguel Torres signed – only with lots lot lots more money.
If you’re behind that, then more power to you, but I think it’s bullshit. Sign the contract, Fedor.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 26, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Listen, that’s kind of a silly rejoinder because it implies that “everybody else” is just following the herd or not thinking carefully. GSP, before his last contract was agreed, played relative hardball with the UFC, got a good contract that takes care of him really well, and still fought every few months and maintained a high level of visibility. If you mean to say that the agreements that those guys signed may just not work for Fedor, fine, that may be true; but at least part of the blame for the inability to reach a deal has to fall on Fedor and his camp in that situation. If you’re implying that the only reason to sign a UFC contract is because of the herd mentality and that fighters who do sign are not thinking, that’s a disservice to guys like GSP and others who put a huge amount of work into getting a contract that works for them. I and most other people would kill for St. Pierre’s contract; Fedor could probably have an even better one. If he decides not to go for it, HE decides; that doesn’t mean that accepting a contract that would pallatable to the UFC is a bad idea.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 26, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
“GSP, before his last contract was agreed, played relative hardball with the UFC, got a good contract that takes care of him really well.”
And that’s what Fedor and his camp are doing. I have no problem with it. The argument that, “Hey, all these other guys signed, wtf Fedor,” doesn’t hold any weight with me. If he doesn’t sign with the UFC, that’s his choice.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
And his choice sucks
GSP signed a contract with the champion’s clause – because he’s a champion.
If Fedor makes this choice – and it is his choice – then he’s a chump.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 26, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t understand why GSP signing a contract with a restrictive, anti-fighter clause makes him a champion.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Because the clause prevents him from taking the title and running without defending it. GSP’s a champion because he doesn’t turn down fights, duck opponents or find excuses (Sambo? Money? Clauses? Dana’s disrespectful? Spin the wheel to find out Fedor’s most recent beef!) for not coming to the premiere organization in the sport he plays.
The contract is good enough for every other elite fighter on Planet Motherfucking Earth, and Fedor’s will be the most lucrative of all. Sign it.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 27, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
So, are you saying that since Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, and Hank Aaron all signed contracts with the reserve clause, Curt Flood, Andy Messersmith, and Dave McNally shouldn’t have challenged it? I mean, if the game’s elite superstars are willing to sign it, everyone should.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jul 27, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec’d for devastation of the herd mentality
by a tommy point on Jul 27, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Not even close to the same thing. You know I want a fighter’s union.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 27, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Was Free Agency Good for the fans?
I’m not so sure. In the long run probably. Better athletes getting drawn in by bigger money is a good thing, but players moving around frequently maybe no so much.
In MMA the same thing. Top tier athletes choosing the UFC over football for instance would be great, but multiple promotions potentially bad.
Calling the champion clause anti-fighter is over simplifying it. Without it, a UFC title holder could just walk off to another promotion with the UFC belt in hand, along with all of the marketing and resources that had been poured into making that belt and fighter both relevant and legitimate. At the same time, it allows the UFC to maintain some reasonable degree of leverage with their champs. The UFC so far has been good about never having to apply the clause, since they have an incentive to keep their champs happy, and pay them their worth. The clause is necessary to protect the UFC’s business interests though. As long as a fighter isn’t looking to screw over the UFC, there’s been no history to show that the UFC will apply the clause to screw over the fighter. If Fedor and his management wants that clause removed, I would question their true intentions.
And a year means what
Does he really expect a Japanese promotion to become meaningful in a years time…No. The only reason they want an out is so they can help a rival promotion. Maybe it works maybe it doesn’t, but the UFC shouldn’t be asked to put huge promotion bucks into fedor orly to watch him walk.
I don't know..
Dana said he’s willing to negotiate and come to an agreement. No one is discussing the champions agreement. What’s being discussed is this hilarious idea that M-1 can be a co-promotional partner for signing one of their fighters. Dana has made it very clear that that isn’t an option. They have to meet in the middle.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Mike just brought up the champion’s clause. So, yes, someone was discussing it.
The UFC has zero incentive to co-promote with anyone. I’ve never suggested they cave in to M-1 on that.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
By no one, I meant the article in question. This other stuff is from their past negotiations, and Dana seems willing to find some sort of middle ground. But Vadim is already talking about the co-promotion stuff, so I’ve been trying to stick to how that effects a potential agreement.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Fedor’s brought up the clause recently in interviews.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
But it’s possible there will be some additional flexibility there. I’m not sure where it came from, but I heard that they’re willing to let him perform in Sambo tournaments.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/1/10-Questions-for-Lorenzo-Fertitta-18516
In this interview Lorenzo Fertitta says they would be OK with Sambo, but he couldn’t compete with 90-120 days of a fight.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Thanks
I knew he said it somewhere. It makes me wonder how willing they are to compromise on other issues, but it’s clear this co-promotion business is never going to be considered.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
The champion’s clause will likely never be dropped. It is just a safety measure.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Who said dropped?
There definitely room for adjustment.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
I don’t see them dropping or adjusting the Champions clause either really.
At best, I see them letting Fedor compete in Sambo, and perhaps loosening the contract terms so that if/when Fedor loses, they can’t cut him on a whim so easily. He’s mentioned his dislike for that term as well.
The point is
They’re showing some leniency on the Sambo thing and other provisions could be similarly effected. I’m not Lorenzo Fertitta; I’m not going to pretend to know how they’ll approach the champions clause if they sit down to discuss a contract.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Why should Zuffa touch the champions clause?
These are the same fuckers who took Prides belt and put Fedor on a competing show on New Years Eve… back in 03.
by mmalogic on Jul 26, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Fedor wouldn’t be think champ after 3 fights anyways. Brock beats him 75% of the time. Throw out the stupid clause. This isnt the biggest hurdle in the negotiations.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 26, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Based on what Fedor himself has had to say, it seems to be one of the major obstacles.
Saying that because Brock may beat Fedor, he shouldn’t have to worry about the clause is kind of silly. I’m sure if the two sides ever sit down across from one another again, that the Zuffa reps will tell Fedor that he shouldn’t worry about that clause because he can’t beat Brock Lesnar. I’d love to see that one.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m saying this is what Dana should be thinking. Not saying. So no champions clause, you get your sambo, but no co-promotion other than u can have m1 on your clothes.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
No M-1 on the clothes, why would they let him advertise for another promotion?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
well...
They are going to have to compromise on that. I’d rather have fedor wearing an m1 shirt (which none of the casual fans have any clue what m1 is) than have to give out a % of the buys to m1 and have their logo plastered everywhere (which is what m1 wants).
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
but this is not about the “fighters benefit”… this is about “Vadim’s benefit”
by mmalogic on Jul 26, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
multiple orgs
dilute talent….. bottom line, you either want the best fights, or you want the fighters to make as much money as they can get, you can’t have both, it’s just a reality.
by cagefightonacid on Jul 26, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Does Fedor have any ownership in M-1?
Because I honestly can’t believe one person would allow these idiots to dictate his career. I can understand the concept of fighting for the money and not for a legacy or whatever, but Fedor takes it to a whole new level with his apathy.
A buddy of mine said something interesting. He stated that the UFC should just go out and sign any of the legitimate challengers that are left for Fedor and let him go out and face a bunch of nobody’s. Then that makes Fedor irrelevant and may force him to sign with the UFC. I realize it’s a pipe dream but it’s an interesting thought.
I speculated the UFC will drain the talent pool intentionally or not. Arlovski, Sylvia and Barnett are all illegitimate now. Brett Roger, Lashley and Yvel both look like they’ll go to the UFC eventually. That doesn’t leave Fedor with much
Rogers needs to beat a couple more decent fighters before he thinks about the UFC, Lashley needs a LOT more work, and Yvel- do you know what his record is? That guy isn’t that great
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
He's no world-beater
But he is 36-13-1, 8-2 in his last 10 fights, and has only gone to 4 decisions in his entire career. He has a marketable look and tends to put on exciting fights.
It ends in an armbar or a strangle regardless.
How many fighters in the UFC have 13 losses? The guy just has too much baggage to make it worth bringing him into the UFC.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Baggage aside, there's plenty of guys with mixed records in the UFC.
There are many guys in the UFC with thoroughly mediocre records—some with far worse win/loss ratios—and they didn’t all compete against the cream of the crop in every bout in their careers. Justin McCully is 9-4-2. McFedries is 8-5. Soszynski is 18-8. Bonner is 11-6 and just lost to a lavaman.
I’m not saying Yvel should absolutely be brought into the UFC, nor am I claiming the UFC is incomplete without him. I just think he’s proven enough that it would not be unreasonable to see him in the octagon. It’s not like he would have to be there forever, if he comes in and loses, then so be it. Besides, the marketing would just be that he’s been fighting for 12 years and has picked up some losses—they wouldn’t exactly focus on that point.
I figure there’s the TUF HW season coming up, and when that is done they will drop the guys from that show that they don’t need—I’m assuming/hoping that, like last year, they wont be putting everybody into fights. After that there might be some openings for some of the non-UFC HW’s to come in and fight, as you would have match ups that could either build some of the newer HW talent or leap frog a veteran into mid-card relevance. Keep in mind that a lot of the HW’s outside of the UFC are known for striking and not much else (Buentello, Yvel, Rogers), and there’s always fun match-ups to be made with HW strikers.
It ends in an armbar or a strangle regardless.
M-1 is determined to ride Fedor’s talent. Eventually he will buck them off and sign with the UFC.
I think Brock should come out and call-out Fedor and make sure the UFC publicizes it world-wide. Make it look like Fedor is ducking Brock. Fedor has always been a national hero for Russia, a bunch of press of their hero ducking a big Amercian brute will put some local pressure on him.
"I think Brock should come out and call-out Fedor"
didn’t we get enough wwe nonsense after the mir fight?
i wasn't referring to the act of calling someone out
i’m not an idiot. i know that happens all the time. i was referring to your suggestion that it be a premeditated thing on the part of the ufc. perhaps i’m reading too much into it.
Calling out a fighter is not just wwe nonsense. It happens in boxing all the time, and is at least effective in getting some more hype out there for the fight. If Brock goes and calls out Fedor, more media will be talking about it. Then the reasons why it’s not happening will get more exposure. Then the mainstream public will be clamoring for it more, to the point where not putting on the fight would be stupid.
I agree with Albertrayon. This isn’t even specific to WWE or pro wrestling, and it works sometimes. But not with FEDOR sorry.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
whatever.. everytime people bring up Fedor’s legacy people just brush it off as “Fedor is all about Sambo, Fedor doens’t really care about MMA. Fedor doesn’t care what anyone thinks because he’s a hero in his country” Ok. if any of that’s true, fine. I’m just saying someone should call him on it , cause I don’t buy it.
whatever.. everytime people bring up Fedor’s legacy people just brush it off as “Fedor is all about Sambo, Fedor doens’t really care about MMA. Fedor doesn’t care what anyone thinks because he’s a hero in his country” Ok. if any of that’s true, fine. I’m just saying someone should call him on it , cause I don’t buy it.Imagine if some Japanese basketball prodigy came out and challenged Lebron to a 1 on 1 game. Once it got a little attention, basketball fans would be calling for it. But if Lebron brushed him off, every sports fan with a computer would demanding it. And if he kept ducking him, every American sports fan period would be calling for it.
whatever.. everytime people bring up Fedor’s legacy people just brush it off as “Fedor is all about Sambo, Fedor doens’t really care about MMA. Fedor doesn’t care what anyone thinks because he’s a hero in his country” Ok. if any of that’s true, fine. I’m just saying someone should call him on it , cause I don’t buy it.Imagine if some Japanese basketball prodigy came out and challenged Lebron to a 1 on 1 game. Once it got a little attention, basketball fans would be calling for it. But if Lebron brushed him off, every sports fan with a computer would demanding it. And if he kept ducking him, every American sports fan period would be calling for it.If there ever was a cover on Sports Illustrated of “Is Fedor afraid of Brock?” That fight would be signed within 2 weeks.
? Ok…not sure why it posted like that. Was supposed to be:
whatever.. everytime people bring up Fedor’s legacy people just brush it off as "Fedor is all about Sambo, Fedor doens’t really care about MMA. Fedor doesn’t care what anyone thinks because he’s a hero in his country" Ok. if any of that’s true, fine. I’m just saying someone should call him on it , cause I don’t buy it.
whatever.. everytime people bring up Fedor’s legacy people just brush it off as "Fedor is all about Sambo, Fedor doens’t really care about MMA. Fedor doesn’t care what anyone thinks because he’s a hero in his country" Ok. if any of that’s true, fine. I’m just saying someone should call him on it , cause I don’t buy it.Imagine if some Japanese basketball prodigy came out and challenged Lebron to a 1 on 1 game. Once it got a little attention, basketball fans would be calling for it. But if Lebron brushed him off, every sports fan with a computer would demanding it. And if he kept ducking him, every American sports fan period would be calling for it.
whatever.. everytime people bring up Fedor’s legacy people just brush it off as "Fedor is all about Sambo, Fedor doens’t really care about MMA. Fedor doesn’t care what anyone thinks because he’s a hero in his country" Ok. if any of that’s true, fine. I’m just saying someone should call him on it , cause I don’t buy it.Imagine if some Japanese basketball prodigy came out and challenged Lebron to a 1 on 1 game. Once it got a little attention, basketball fans would be calling for it. But if Lebron brushed him off, every sports fan with a computer would demanding it. And if he kept ducking him, every American sports fan period would be calling for it.If there ever was a cover on Sports Illustrated of "Is Fedor afraid of Brock?" That fight would be signed within 2 weeks.
Someone delete this, it’s bordering on spam.
by filipinomix2oo0 on Jul 26, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wish there was a “non-rec.”
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jul 26, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, it was a post of epically bad proportions, sorry.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Ugh
This shit again? Guys can’t promote fights without being called pro wrestlers? Please reference Brent Brookhouse’s recent articles for an eduction on this ridiculous assertion.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
....So barnett/Fedor in Sengoku?
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
Hahaha
I enjoyed this.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
My first thought was they aren’t going to co-promote with them, why not just buy M-1? They did it with Pride.
That makes no sense though. The amount that they would be asking for to buy M-1 would be completely ridiculous (if they would even be willing to sell). What would UFC acquire by doing this? Fedor. That’s it.
by SanDiegoMMA.net on Jul 26, 2009 1:13 PM EDT reply actions
Fedor, and a whole bunch of other fighters they want nothing to do with.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Didn’t Dana admit that Machida was the entire reason another organizational purchase that was made? Admittedly, that couldn’t have cost nearly as much as the tools as M-1 are going to request.
I’ve never heard that but I’d be interested in reading if you can find a link.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
They purchased the WFA for Rampage and Machida.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Not really
They kept both fighters. Despite any speculation that it was just about Rampage, they acquired both.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
"We’re still sifting through it all," White said of all the contracts it acquired with the purchase of the WFA. "The main score in that whole deal was Quinton Jackson. We got Quinton Jackson."
Machida, along with several fighters came in the deal but you won’t find any quotes at the time from UFC boasting about it. Not even the Patriots pretend like they knew what they were getting when they drafted Tom Brady in the 6th round. Let’s continue to leave it at the UFC was luckier than smart when it came to Machida.
Yeah, praising the UFC for getting Machida in that deal is like praising the Cardinals for getting Albert Pujols in the 13th round after every other team had multiple chances to take him.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
You shouldn't?
Seems like something worth praising. They got away with drafting an all-time great in the 13th, before anyone else bothered taking him.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
If they knew he was so great shouldn’t they have taken him in the first round?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
I neither understand this nor think it’s fair to the organization. They took him before anyone else did and it worked out for the best. They got major value in the 13th round. Are you saying that anything an org does in the draft after the 3rd round should only pay back dividends equal to the place they selected the player? So if Pujols was a career AA player, they would have done a fine job?
Besides, baseball drafts are not closely relatable to the NFL or NBA drafts. Brady in the 6th is a much better example, as late round MLB players end up being great much more often and first rounders are career minor leaguers or out of the league much more frequently.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
good post.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
So the Cardinals knew what they were doing when they took him in the 13th round? They knew he was going to be a star? How about when the Chiefs took Jared Allen in the 4th round as a long snapper?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
My man.. Your argument doesn’t make sense. They drafted the player and the player became successful. Who do you praise for selecting him and giving him a chance to play in the majors? I’m a Vikings fan and even I know that Carl Peterson deserved major props for drafting and converting Jared Allen. He’s now the best DE in all of football. You’re saying that the organization is due no credibility for getting extra value? In my mind, that’s backwards. You take a guy Round One, Pick One and he succeeds, you’re just playing for par.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
To be honest, no, if they had even the slightest inkling of what he may have turned into they would have taken him MUCH higher. Just because they got lucky doesn’t mean they knew what they had at the time. Like I said, the Chiefs drafted Jared Allen to be a long snapper, they had no idea he had the potential to put up 15 sacks a year, if they did he would have been a top 2 round pick.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
To be honest, no, if they had even the slightest inkling of what he may have turned into they would have taken him MUCH higher.
Then you don’t understand sports drafts. Remember, draft position is linked to eventual contracts and compensation. You draft a player as LOW as possible if for no other reason than signing a rookie contract that costs the organization less money. Every team has a master draft list; if a player is still available higher than the highest position that they estimate that other teams will take him, they leave him in part because he is not “worth” the compensation that would be due to him. If a player is available after or at that point, they begin considering him. You don’t blow a first round pick and the attendant cash output on a guy that noone was going to even glance at for three rounds.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
There’s a lot more luck in the MLB draft than other sports.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Bingo
And I already touched on that.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Maybe you should revisit your original statement
Yeah, praising the UFC for getting Machida in that deal is like praising the Cardinals for getting Albert Pujols in the 13th round after every other team had multiple chances to take him.
The UFC has Machida and DREAM doesn’t. The Cardinals have Albert Pujols and the rest of the league doesn’t. I really don’t know how else to explain this. The dumb luck thing is 1000% inconsequential. A team picks a guy 1st or 400th; the point is they picked him. I have a hard time believing you’re like “Big deal, UFC! Landing Machida’s contract was blind luck!” instead of thinking like I do and saying “Fuckin A, Zuffa; what a huge score he ended up being”. Return on investment d00d…
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Doesn't change facts
They kept him and he succeeded. I’m not suggesting they knew what they were getting, just that they acquired his contract in addition to Rampage.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Im kinda friends with one of the guys who put the WFA deal together, and they were throwing the event specifically to get the UFC to buy them out to aquire Q & Machida. I’m sure of this because when he gave me tickets to go see the show, he gave me the lowdown (he’s told me all kinds of cool insider shit), and told me to specifically watch Machida and how dope he was. Make no mistake, the deal was for both of them.
I remember not being very impressed with Lyoto that night at the forum, I thought he was kind of boring, I think he fought Marvin the Beastman, and I was just kinda meh. Now the guy’s my favorite fighter. Go figure. :)
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 26, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh Finkie, will you ever get it?
You will NEVER co-promote a UFC event. They have no need for you whatsoever. They don’t need your only asset, Fedor. Either get a dose of reality, or go back to setting up fights with guys like Barnett, AA, Sylvia or Choi, Hunt, etc…
Man, I am sick of this guy.
If you're not submitting, you're just rolling around with another guy.
by BJJDenver on Jul 26, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Is Fedor even relevant anymore...
I would love to see Fedor in the UFC, but he hasn’t fought a dangerous opponent in 4 years. At this point I don’t even care anymore.
What the hell do you consider a dangerous opponent?
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Someone who could potentially be dangerous
See a few comments below. Which opponent do you think is a worthy challenger?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 26, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d probably bet on Fedor.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Quality bet
He doesn’t sleep or dream.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
A Russian, bear killing cyborg.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
A Russian, bear submitting cyborg.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Which I think is even more impressive
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
I like the way you put it last time better : Chubby Russian Robot :)
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 26, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
We can all argue about how good Sylvia and Arlovski really are, but both were top 5 ranked Heavyweights before fighting Fedor and both were former Champions. He’s certainly more relevant in the division now than he was before Affliction.
Top 5
because the division was waiting to go through a resurgence… If you really look at their performances before their fights with Fedor, they were not the same fighters who had ko’d a buncha guys earlier in their UFC careers… People bashed AA, and Tim both while they were with the UFC, yet as soon as they’re fighting Fedor, everyone acts as if they were great, when they were just the best that could be done (or had been done for Fedor in a while).
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
So going back to the Sylvia fight, who would have been a more intriguing match for Fedor BESIDES Couture (who couldn’t fight for obvious reasons)?
Nog was UFC’s champ, and I can’t think of anyone who really wanted to see him fight Fedor again. That just left a bunch of UFC prospects like Carwin, Velasquez, Werdum and Brock.
I think you are looking at the heavyweight division as it stands today and projecting it on the past. I certainly would love to see Fedor jump into the UFC to fight some of their heavyweights, but to say he’s only fought scrubs for the last year isn’t quite true either.
by Lyrias on Jul 26, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're a dumbass
In the last year, Fedor has finished 2 top 5 HW’s. And he was just scheduled to fight the #2, before he decided to fuck up with his cycle.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 26, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Very intelligent way to start a debate...
As long as you’re attacking my intelligence I say bring it. I will destroy you in any intellectual debate.
Email me if you’re interested.
Rankings are subjective and mostly meaningless. Josh Barnett should never be considered in these talks again See your comment above. If you think Tim Sylvia is a Top 5 heavyweight then you, sir, are the dumbass.
Tim Sylvia, at the time he fought Fedor, was generally considered to be the #5-7 HW in the world.
Is he now? Obviously not.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
TIM WAS WHEN HE FOUGHT HIM!
For the last time, it’s about what they were ranked when they fought him, not where there are now…geez
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
Just to continue an actual debate, let’s hop in our time machine and go back to June of 2008 right before the Fedor-Sylvia fight
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/6/24/558067/bloody-elbow-meta-rankings
Considering the way the BE rankings system work it’s safe to say that most people had Sylvia in their top 5. Look at the rest of the list, Barnett was too busy fighting cans, Couture was too busy fighting the UFC in court, and Nog was too busy not losing again against Fedor.
Now let’s move forward to the Arlovski fight
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/12/15/692963/bloody-elbow-november-mma
Arlovski had moved up after soundly beating Rothwell and KO’ing Nelson. The ONLY person ahead of him in rankings was a guy Fedor had already soundly beaten. The Couture fight by this time had become far less interesting, nobody I can think of was giving Brock a real chance against Fedor so who else was there for Fedor to fight?
And just for fun look at the rankings even after Arlovski had lost to Fedor
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/3/25/808201/usat-sbn-march-mma-consens
Arlovski was STILL considered a top 3 Heavyweight by ALOT of people, and it looked like Fedor vs Barnett was finally going to happen as well. So in the past year he would have fought 3 fighters in the top 5.
by Lyrias on Jul 26, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
Thank you, and rec'd
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
I'm not a big fan of rankings...
and I guess that is why.
I like Arlovski, I do. I’ve been a fan since the Jerry Springer days. He’s been very lackluster the last few years, showing only flashes of his old self. He, arguably, only beat Nelson because of a bad standup. But he beat him, nonetheless. I will agree to say Arlovski was a good opponent, not great, but good.
Tim Sylvia, please. The guy has got size and some physical gifts, but that’s about it. His career has been going downhill for a while.
Josh Barnett does Steroids like I do vagina, a lot.
Thank you for presenting an intelligent argument. Rec’d.
Oh I wouldn’t argue for a second that both men didn’t greatly benefit from a lackluster UFC heavyweight division, heck I picked Fedor in both match ups. I sincerely hope that he winds up in the UFC, because for the first time in years there are several compelling fights for him there.
Well
You need to revisit the original argument, and that was the suggestion that Fedor isn’t relevant for not having fought top competition. We can’t be revisionist when deciding who is and isn’t legit; those two were top ranked HW’s at the time Fedor mauled them. This is similar to an argument I had in another thread where a guy suggested Machida has only defeated one top 10 LHW. You can’t look at today, you look at that day. You realize when a guy wins a fight, he’s responsible for a drop in rank? Some people act as though losing to a top ranked fighter and boosting his position is more attractive than beating and bumping them.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
by Blackout612 on Jul 26, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec’d for bringing this conversation back from the brink.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 26, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Just a heads up, the banhammer is not a fan of folks calling each other “dumbass”.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 26, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
When/where did Fedor join up with Finkelchtein?
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
Awesome
Thanks.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 26, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuck it!
I want to see Fedor fight in the UFC. If that means giving M-1 a piece then, damn it, I say give them a piece. I am sure the two parties can work out some kind of compromise. Wait, can I put the name Dana White and the word “Compromise” in the same sentence?
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
No you can’t. The UFC as been damn clear about it already, no co-promoting. Everything else doesn’t seem really negotiable but never know. Co-promoting in the other hand is a deal breaker.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
There is absolutely no need for UFC to co-promote. They don’t want to open those floodgates, or soon every promotion with a big name fighter is going to come knocking on their door looking for money. UFC is fine by itself as a brand.
by Albertrayon on Jul 26, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no benefit to the ufc
they’ve worked hard to become the best. imagine if fedor beats brock and leaves. it will make the ufc heavyweight championship irrelevant.
You call that compromise?
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
With all this talk of m1 and Co-Promotion...
What the fuck does M1 do? Like, besides having fighters? I mean, they “co-promoted” this event with Affliction, and it died… so do they not get partial blame, if indeed they are a real company? Did they try to broker deals with other fighters when Barnett Popped for the roids? or do they just sit back and wait? What are their responsibilities, outside of reaping the benefits of Fedor?
What are their responsibilities, outside of reaping the benefits of Fedor?
No… I think that’s pretty much their business model.
by Meeaaat on Jul 26, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
M-1 Global (M-1 MixFight) is the mixed martial arts promotion based in Russia. It will be hosting its first major show (rather than co-promoting with other organizations) entitled M-1 Global Presents Breakthrough on August 28, 2009 in Los Angeles.1
M-1 Challenge is a team-based competition organized with a series of events held in different places around the world where MMA clubs compete against each other. The teams consist of five athletes (one in each of the five major weight class).
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
ok...
but what does that mean when they “co-promote”…. They don’t have to provide anything but a fighter or two to a card?
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
ok...
but in terms of their specific co-promotions with Affliction… what was the extent of their contribution?>
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
They provided Fedor, that’s about it. They got their name on every bit of promotional material, on the ring, etc. They probably didn’t do much of anything other than all the business dealings involving Fedor. Pretty sweet gig if you can get it.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
No one knows what exactly they do, but what they do is irrelevant.
In theory, with a copromotion, both orgs would help do all the things necessary to do leading up to the fight, and then split all the proceeds after, but the UFC doesn’t need any help promoting a fight. They promote fights better than anyone else in the mma world. Any co-promotion they did with another org at this point in time would just be giving some of their profits to people that they don’t need to.
Let's look at who he's fought...
Arlovski- I like Arlovski but he’s got significant holes in his game and a questionable chin. Beer Monster and Starvin…
That being said he was doing very well against Fedor for about 4 minutes. In his next fight he got knocked out in 22 seconds by a relative newcomer in Brett Rogers.
Tim Sylvia- Ray Mercer.
Hong Man Choi- This is starting to get ridiculous.
Matt Lindland- Middleweight
Mark Hunt- I like Mark Hunt but he’s not a great MMA fighter.
Mark Coleman-Was a very good fighter years before this match took place.
If there is any credible opponents I missed please let me know.
eh....
Tim had lost to Randy, and Nog already…. He also looked bad against Vera, and Andrei in the midst of those losses… Andrei was a more credible opponent, even tho he had lost 2 times to Tim, and looked boring against Werdum (before beating Obrien).
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
You can do this with anyone, i.e. Brock Lesnar:
Mir 2- a bit undersized, one-dimensional BJJ fighter
Randy Couture- very undersized, old, and hadn’t fought in over a year
Heath Herring- washed up fighter who spent all his good years in PRIDE
Mir 1- lost in a minute and a half
Min Soo-Kim- career 3-6 record
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
In comparison to Brock Lesnar who probably outweighed him by 30 pounds on fight night, yes.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Not a fan of this
You can apply that argument to everyone, then. Why bother saying it?
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
I know you’re “just making a point” by saying what some idiots say, but I don’t think it’s a credible argument whoever it comes from. It’s too much of a stretch, and too much revisionism. I like, at some point, my assessments of opponent quality to intersect with reality.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Mir – first guy to TKO Nog. One dimensional, I think not.
Randy – Legend in the sport, 3 time UFC champ, and the guy who fared best with the current UFC champ. KO the guy who KO CroCop.
Heath Herring – Okay, I’ll give you this one.
Mir 1 – We define fighters by earlier fighters rather than current ones, now?
Fighters are defined by what they’re doing now, not what they did before. You’re grasping at straws if you’re comparing Arlovski and Sylvia’s current performances with Brock’s past performance.
by cyph on Jul 26, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jesus Christ
Don’t you guys get that I was just making a point? I think all those guys (except Kim) are legit, I was just saying that if you want to point things out to put people in a negative light you can do it to anyone.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
What is?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
French Canadian or French Frenchman?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Fench from France actualyy, we got a pretty bad english out there, maybe the worst of europe :D.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
How come nobody was talking about how bad Arlovski sucked til he lost to Fedor (like everyone else does) and got caught by Rogers?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Werdum fight was boring as hell. Werdum also got KO’ed by a newbie. I don’t make up the facts.
As for Nelson, he was the champ of the IFL. I will reserve my judgment after watching on TUF.
You judge a guy on his performance, otherwise you’d be making shit up. Had Sylvia beat Mercer and AA beat Rodgers, then nobody would be saying anything. After getting beat pretty badly we have to reassess.
Ah yes, revisionist history. So when Willie Mays played like shit in 1973 does that mean he wasn’t as good as everyone thought in the 50’s and 60’s?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
That’s a pretty strawman argument. You’re basically saying that AA and Sylvia are equivalent to an old Willie Mays? Come on, these guys are (should) still be in their prime. Otherwise, Fedor beat two over the hill fighter.
Athletic prime is typically in the age 26-28 range, AA is 30 and Sylvia is 33.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Lesnar is probably not in as good physical condition as he was 3 or 4 years ago. He’s still head and shoulders above everyone else but if he had started fighting at 20 instead of 30 he would probably be considered the greatest fighter of all time.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Physical prime has nothing to do with what sport you compete in, you can’t change chemistry.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
That’s really a piss poor example, especially in light of the Josh Barnett situation.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
That cover his hilarious. “HE TOOK IT IN THE BUTT” is the front page story and “BABY KILLER FREED” just gets a mention in the header. Yeah, Idiocracy is more prophecy than comedy.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Prime is defined as when someone is at his peak ability. A guy at the peak of his career.
In twenty years, Randy’s prime would be in his 40’s. Everyone is different. Are you saying that once a guy goes past 28, he’s on a downward slope? Of course not. Then I don’t know why you’re trying to use that as your definition.
I’m using it to generalize, are you using Randy as an example to say that EVERY fighter peaks in their 40’s? Of course not. MOST fighters will be in their prime around age 26-28. I’m not saying EVERY guy is on a downward slope after 28 but for the most part a lot of them will be. That doesn’t mean they are going to suck, it just means physically they aren’t as explosive as they used to be.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
I’m simply saying that once they reach their 30’s MOST fighters (not all) are no longer at the peak of their physical abilities, that’s all. I think it’s pretty obvious if you look at Tim Sylvia that he’s not as dangerous as he was 4 years ago.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
I think...
As u get older sometimes you might still be at your peak, but you get the feeling that you have “made it” so you don’t train as hard or have the same hunger to suceed. This can also cause a career downfall….
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
I think you guys failed to grasp the point of my Clemens picture. Changing an athlete’s chemistry, prolonging primes, etc is the name of the game these days. Clemens, Bonds, (gasp..Lance?) and all the rest of those big names were performing much better late in their careers and well into their 40’s. Why? Well, everyone knows now.
Take Randy, for example. I think it’s safe to say that the man is at least using supplements to help stay in the shape he’s in. He’s changing his chemistry. Perfectly legal and virtually every high level athlete, who needs to keep their body finely tuned, uses them.
So, too, are the roiders, HGHers, and other dopers who are forced to lurk in the shadows, changing their body chemistry.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, but that doesn’t mean they peak in their 40’s. How much more impressive would Bonds have been in his 20’s if he took the stuff he took in his 40’s?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Who knows. Maybe he would’ve been too slow to steal all those bases and be a defensive wizard if he had bulked up early in his career. That’s the thing with Bonds, his early years of all around greatness stack up against his later years of solely unfathomable offensive success. Well, in my mind anyway.
We can look at how Clemens pitched a fair amount better later in his career, during suspected PED use, than he ever did as a young man and racked up the Cy Youngs to prove it. It’s tough to quantify exactly how, and when, PEDs can boost one’s performance through the roof. The one thing we do know for certain is that they can allow an athlete to do stuff later in life that they have no business doing otherwise.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant to say:
It’s tough to quantify exactly how, and when, PEDs can boost one’s performance through the roof early on.
We could take a gander at Albert Pujols to prove your point, though. He’s been putting up absurd numbers, and playing a great all-around game, early on and has the telltale signs of PED abuse. So, you could be right about Bonds.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly what telltale signs of PED abuse does Pujols have?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Uh, ginormous bulging muscles, a big fat head, acne, constant sweating in non-sport situations, absurd offensive numbers.
He’s a victim of his own success.
A-Rod was everyone’s clean darling of a ballplayer until he wasn’t. Pujols’ face is on the placard now. It’s only a matter of time, despite his protestations.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
A friend of mine that is a major Pujols fan asked me if I thought there was any way he could be on roids. I said “yes, he could— look at him”. His retort? That Pujols can’t be on steroids because he’s a nice guy. Blinders!
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
that response from your friend was pretty ignorant, but so is automatically assuming that he using b/c he’s so good. he’s virtually had the same #s since he was a rookie. i believe that pujols is one of the superstar players who is actually clean. only time will tell. :)
If you’re talking about my answer to him, could is an indefinite term. Now, if you’re saying couldn’t, then that would be the ignorant comment.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Correct
I thought you were citing my response as the adverse.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
And hormone replacement therapy.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jul 26, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, Randy’s prime isn’t in his 40’s.
Most guys peak somewhere between 26-30. Some guys have a steep decline. Some guys plateau for awhile. But when you get on the wrong side of 30, you’re on the way down.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I’m arguing that his peak physical ability isn’t in his 40’s. Does everyone forget that he got hormone replacement therapy? In addition, he didn’t start fighting MMA until he was 34 before which he was an Olympic caliber level wrestler. I’m not sure he could still get to that level even if he never stopped training Greco.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I was arguing the prime of one’s career. You’re arguing the prime of his youth. Is it safe to say that most MMA fighter’s are at the prime of their career in their 30’s?
I’m not really sure what you mean by “the prime of their career.”
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Yep.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 26, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Prime as in when they are performing at their peak in MMA. In MMA, how many champions do you see who are in the 20’s VS one’s who are in the 30’s?
Nobody is arguing physical prime here. What’s the norm for average people is not the name for athletes who are by nature athletically gifted. MMA physical peak doesn’t exactly follow the rest of the sporting world.
Using “who the champs are” as a metric isn’t extremely scientific. When FightMetric releases their stat database, I’m fairly confident that we’ll find that fighters are most effective between the ages of 27-31.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Is there a scientific method to measuring effectiveness in MMA? Isn’t winning the best measure of effectiveness in sport, especially individual sport?
Perhaps when guys like Jon Jones peak, we’ll move that age bracket down closer to the norm. However, that’s a good 5 years away. I like to believe that MMA is a far more cerebral sport that takes many years to perfect.
There’s no good measure because we don’t have readily available fight statistics.
But no, winning and losing isn’t the best measure of effectiveness, especially in a sport where 30% of the fights are decided subjectively by three arbitrary parties.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
i think one’s prime varies alot in some fighters. hendo and chuck are the same age, who seems to be closer to still being in their prime. i think alot of it goes with how you live your life outside of training. if you live a clean life and stay in shape year round, your chances of having a longer prime increases greatly. look at randy and bernard hopkins, both in their mid 40’s and still as good as ever. both adhere to a clean lifestyle. i remember growing up as a boxing fan and remembering as soon as a fighter turned 30, he was considered “old”. as far as arlovski and sylvia are concerened, i think sylvia is done, but arlovski still has something left in the gas tank. he just needs to get past the mental aspect(maybe he needs gsp’s sports pscyh., no jk). i still think a.a. is capable of beating alot of top fighters if he can get his head together. i also believe arlovski was at his peak when he fought fedor and made a stupid move. that was a very impressive win for fedor imo and was only 6 months ago and should not be discounted.
Neither seem to be in their prime to me, since you asked.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
This. Dan’s certainly more effective than Chuck, but a lot of that has to do with their styles. Chuck relied on his reflexes, those reflexes are no mo’.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
true
but dan is still on top and is closer to his prime (and a title shot) than chuck, who is close to retirement.. agree with Fagan on styles. wrestlers seem to last longer than strikers.
Dan is on top? How so? Last I checked he lost his last 2 title fights.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
“on top of the world ma”. i wasn’t saying he’s the champ, but he has won his last 3 while chuck has lost his last 4 out of 5. dan is still in cinsidered a “TOP” contender, while chuck is considered finished. that’s what i meant by being on top. chuck is a notorious partier and lets himself go between fights, hell, read his book if you don’t believe me, while hendo is a family man and stays in shape year round and lives a cleaner life. that was what i was originally posting about, i’m not a chuck hater/basher, but if one can’t tell the difference between where his and hendo’s career stand right now, well then there is no sense debating the point. peace! :)
“Over the hill” and “not in their prime” are two entirely different things. And I said typically, Randy is obviously a big exception. But his skill is based on his game planning and intelligenct, if we are talking physical prime (which is what I am referring to) then Randy is most definitely not in his prime.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
The fact that Sylvia even fought Mercer renders him hilariously irrelevant. I’ve not been impressed with Arlovski in quite some time.
This is how bad losing against Ray Mercer is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXkcYul1LRo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Freader%2Fview%2F&feature=player_embedded
You got me there...
No, I’m just kidding, I’ll play.
I do agree with you about Lesnar, though.
Let’s just say GSP.
Thiago Alves
Bj Penn
John Fitch
Matt Serra (That little guy, you don’t have to worry about that little guy)
Matt Hughes
Josh Koscheck
I would pick anyone on that list ( except for maybe Serra) to potentially win their next fight against a credible challenger.
If you look at Fedor’s opponents I would heavily wager all my money on their opponent.
Hey, so now tell me what heavyweight should be considered undisputed #1 considering his resume on the last 3 years.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
I agree that there doesn’t have to be but it seems pretty obvious to me that Fedor and Brock Lesnar are the two best HW’s in the world right now, if they aren’t I’d like to hear a good argument of who is.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
I agree that Lesnar looks pretty dominant and a few years ago I would’ve said the same about Fedor, and it could still be true. But I don’t know until I see him fight better competition.
I don’t think Anderson Silva’s the best MW in the world either. It’s been over a year and a half since he’s fought legit competition at 185.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Who would be a good opponent for Anderson? I don’t have any clue what Middleweight that he hasn’t already fought would be a good opponent for him?
Vitor Belfort, Demian Maia, Nate Marquardt v2.0, Sexyama, Jorge Santiago.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
I would like to see him fight Vitor but he’s not in the UFC yet. I don’t think Maia’s stand up is where it needs to be, but Anderson did have problems with submissions in the past. Marquardt would be a good fight and I would like to see that as well as Hendo again. I think Akiyama needs a few more fights in the UFC and Jorge Santiago I’m not sure about. I think a Cung Lee fight would be entertaining also but I think Silva takes it.
And up until July 11th, there was no one at heavyweight that Fedor hadn’t fought that would be a challenge for him. The Lesnar fight has really only be viable for a month, and people are back on the “OMG BUT FEDOR HASN’T FOUGHT ANYONE LATELY AREJAPOIJGO” train.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jul 26, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Listen, my opinions on Fedor have remained steady. Wanderlei and Fedor are big reasons I started training. My point still stands. Who has he fought in the last 4 years that you thought OMG this is going to be a great fight and (Tim, Andre, Hunt , Choi-(HaHa) Linland and Coleman) are world beaters and could challenge anyone. Honestly, can you look yourself in the mirror and say you think Hong Man Choi is considered a dangerous heavyweight?
Arlovski? You can use some revisionist history and talk down that fight because of the Rogers thing, but that’s really silly.
Outside of Lesnar, who has Fedor not fought that will really be a dark spot on his career? No one. Because he’s destroyed the division.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
He “destroyed the division?”
Barnett (yeah, I know, had to bring it up anyway)
Rodgers
Lesnar
Couture
Cain
Valasquez
Gonzaga
I’m sure he’ll beat most of them, but I don’t think he can run the gauntlet. I’m not arguing that Fedor shouldn’t be ranked #1, but I sure as hell don’t think he’s “destroyed” the division.
Barnett (yeah, I know, had to bring it up anyway)
Rodgers
Lesnar
Couture
Cain
Valasquez
Gonzaga
Fixed, assuming we are talking about legit contenders. And Cain and Velasquez are the same person.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Things change
The argument is that he should be in the UFC now, not three years ago.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
And yes
I’m aware of what Fagan said, but if he still wants to compete at the highest level, and be considered the best in the world, it’s been known for sometime that he had a finite number of opponents outside of Zuffa (AA, Timmay, Barnett).
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Who ya got? Cain or Velazquez? Tough one to call.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll take Brown Pride
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
That’s what they all say!
I think Carwin takes Cain or Velasquez, though.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Cain and Valasquez would beat anyone not named Lesnar and Fedor.
You’re obviously living in the past. All those names you crossed out are the future.
How come everybody talks about how bad Arlovski sucks but Brett Rogers is all of a sudden a world beater for knocking him out?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
See, the deal with Rogers is this: he called out Kimbo in EliteXC, clearly proving that he is a certified wrecking ball. Or it could just be his win over James Thompson. Takes courage to step into the cage with an exploding ear.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes sense to me.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
I’m throwing Barnett out for obvious reasons.
Lesnar’s the only guy on that list who Fedor NEEDS to fight.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Let’s see the consensus ranking:
2 Nate Marquardt 88 UFC 3
3 Yushin Okami 88 UFC 2
4 Dan Henderson 85 UFC 5
5 Demian Maia 79 UFC 7
Most likely Demian Maia. But Marquardt has been pretty good lately, and he is #2, so rematch or not this fight works for me. Anyone from the top 5 is good competition.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
Yeah
Based on the Leites fight he isn’t the top MW, apparently. I understand that taking that fight hurts his cred some degree, but he isn’t Joe Silva and he’s demolished some legit contenders.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
If Fedor does get into the UFC I would rather see him fight Randy first, given that Randy beats Nog. Randy deserves that fight no matter what happens actually.
Co-promotion definition?
Does that mean UFC would have to split some of the PPV/gate earnings with M-1? If so, I’d say there’s no chance. If all it means is that M-1 gets a little piece of the advertising, then that might be doable. Something like an “M-1” on the mat or, when Fedor fights, they flash up on the screen “This fight co-promoted with M-1 global” and leave it at that.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 26, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions
Well of course it's all about the money ...
I don’t understand why people are pissed at Fedor for caring about money , as if the UFC doesn’t . The whole reason the UFC doesn’t want to co promote is money related . Fedor should only want to fight the best in the world , yeah I get it , but before he is the robin hood of fights he’s also a man that wants to earn a living . The UFC can kill his career real quick if he loses , in m-1 or whatever promotion he fights for he’ll always have more freedom and more opportunities to re-hype himself case he loses. And bottom line Im not even sure the UFC will offer him big paydays , the UFC isn’t really known for paying that well …
U wanna see Fedor fight tough guys ? There’s Overeem , Rogers , and maybe Barnett in Japan . Not that imho…
Fedor’s management has already stated that money-wise, the UFC’s previous offers were above the rest.
Brock Lesnar supposedly made more than $3 million off that last fight.
If people are willing to buy Fedor PPV’s, there’s no shortage of money to be made.
Brock Lesnar is Brock Lesnar , u can probably compare Fedor to Anderson Silva in terms of PPV numbers and the money he’ll make . Fedor isn’t and won’t be a huge draw in america . He’s very well known by the hardcores and I guess even the casual fans have heard his name at least once but him not knowing any english and having the persona that he has , it’s going to be very difficult to sell him . One loss in the UFC and I can see his stock plummet . I think that’s part of the problem here …
Yeah, that’s pretty much it. Lesnar got a cut of the PPV buys. Give Fedor the same deal. If it doesn’t sell, it doesn’t sell.
Lesnar vs Fedor WILL sell tho , everyone can agree on that .
I just think that the risk is too big in the eyes of Fedor’s management , they might be afraid he’ll get Cro Coped over there . So for them to agree the offer has to be VERY generous , which it probably isn’t .. or not enough
But it will sell because of Fedor.
The deal they have offered Fedor in the past is at least as good as the one Brock got. It was such a good deal that it is why Randy “resigned” in the first place.
If he isn’t going to bring in more money than Brock, he shouldn’t get a different deal than Brock, Randy, or anyone else in the UFC.
No, it will sell because of Brock.
Brock sold more PPV in his debut fight than Fedor has ever sold.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 26, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually Brock didn’t sell shit in his debut. You all want to forget it or Brock was so insignificant that you never knew it. He was headlined in a non-UFC event for his 1st fight.
That's my point
Brock Lesnar ain’t shit without the UFC banner promoting his fights.
Outside UFC PPV Buys
Brock Lesnar – 0 (zero)
Fedor – 100k per event
Without seeing Fedor promoted in the UFC it’s jumping to conclusions about his PPV draw potential. At the very least it’s an devious apple to orange comparison.
That’s kind of a silly comparison, Fedor had like 30 fights before his Affliction debut, not to mention Affliction pumped millions into promoting that fight, how much promotion did Brock’s first fight get?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 26, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This
And bignerd’s argument is really suggesting the best thing for Fedor is coming to Zuffa.
Lesnar – Zuffa = 0 buys
Lesnar + Zuffa = One mllion + buys
Fedor – Zuffa = 100k buys
Fedor + Zuffa = 10 trillion buys ZOMG!!!!!!!!!1
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
by Blackout612 on Jul 26, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is that how you extrapolate the data?
Fedor’s UFC debut will garner a big number, after all he will be fighting Brock. If he happens to knock Brock’s head off he takes Brock’s PPV slot.
No, it doesn’t work that way. If Fedor wins, he will diminish Brock’s popularity. Silva destroying Franklin did not help him take over Franklin’s popularity.
The winner of Brock/fedor would become the “Baddest Man on the Planet”. Think Mike Tyson.
Keep firing Assholes!
Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
They may notice a super badass heavyweight killing machine, especially if Brock wins.
Keep firing Assholes!
Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
THIS
Boxing would still be kicking ass if their HW division wasn’t such dogshit. The idea of an MMA fighter, the undisputed world HW champ, being considered the deadliest man on the planet (fuck you Shamrock)… it boggles the mind what that could do for the sport. Accountants saying ‘the baddest man on the planet at my weight is GSP’ and shit.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 26, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuzzy math
I think we agree that Zuffa marketing him would make him an asston of money.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Zuffa marketing a tree stump would make an asston of money.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
by Blackout612 on Jul 26, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Many
Depending on the show (major PPV or in-betweeners) he regularly did between 750k and over one million, if my memory serves.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
That sounds outrageously high. Those are the numbers for their biggest shows (Wrestlemania, Royal Rumble, etc.).
by An Old Friend on Jul 26, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Well the numbers I’m seeing from basic searching seem to agree that 750k to one million is too high for both larger and smaller shows. WIkipedia says Lesnar main-evented from 2002 to 2003. This webpage purports to have the buyrates, and they aren’t consistently that high— in fact the highest ones during this period are only 1.60, something like 640,000 buys.
It ends in an armbar or a strangle regardless.
It’s possible that I exchanged the buyrate improperly back then.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Not to get into a whole thing about pro wrestling buyrates, but the other thing that prevents a direct head-to-head comparison is that WWE has a set of four annual big events which always occur during the same part of the year. They try to save the very biggest matches for those shows, and book the weekly shows for months in advance to lead up to Wrestlemania, Summerslam, etc.
The only Wrestlemania Brock headlined was in 2003, where he fought Kurt Angle. They had been building up to that match for months in advance, plus it was essentially Lesnar’s coronation as the top dude in WWE. This is not a match they would book on any old PPV—it was reserved for the biggest of the year.
It’s similar to the old Japanese model of making the New Year’s Eve cards the biggest of the year. Zuffa has followed that to a degree, at least for the last three years. Superbowl weekend is another major event most years. But they’ve also been smart about booking big events all year long, so it’s not like fans are conditioned to splurge on 3-4 big shows and skip the rest.
by An Old Friend on Jul 26, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
This^^ is why it’s difficult to compare buyrates from WWE to MMA. The UFC does their best to set up the shows and get the most buys. Whereas the WWE can specifically book their “best” shows and know they will get huge buys.
It also helps that mixed martial artists only fight a few times a year (especially the ones who have actually established themselves as draws). HHH, John Cena, et. al., all fight every month (provided they’re healthy), so there’s not a lot to distinguish one PPV from another aside from the tradition and pageantry of the big events. Again, it’s smart that UFC hasn’t tried to play this up too much. I don’t want to read too much into it, but this might even explain why there wasn’t much extra pomp and circumstance involved in UFC 100, Buffer 360 aside.
by An Old Friend on Jul 26, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Errr...
Good call. That’s why I said between.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
the UFC isn’t really known for paying that well …
That’s why he should go fight for Affliction. Oh, wait.
well he made about 3 mills for fighting total of … 3 minutes ? not too bad …
considering his other options – Strikeforce’s looking very serious if what I read is true .
Don’t get me wrong , I’d love to see him in the ufc and the best fights for him are there , but I don’t buy that he has no other options
I would love to see Lesnar vs. Fedor and then Couture vs. Fedor after Brock destroys the Last Emperor but this is beyond the point of ridiculous. Fedor, sorry MMA fans, is a nobody in this country and to think the UFC will co-promote and event with a company who has no promotional clout in the U.S. is outrageous. Does anyone really believe that M-1 Global and their “promotion machine” will add even 1 PPV to the total buys. They have one fighter and are trying their damnest to parlay him into some type of fight promotion that can endure after his eventual retirement. Please go to Japan and fight Josh Barnett and then fight Mach and Aoki or whomever else you please. Brock Lesnar is the biggest fighter in the world and the UFC is the premier MMA promotion in the world, in the words of mmalogic “check mate”.
Bloody Elbow Pound-for-Pound the Best in Ultimate Fighting (UFC) Commentary, News and Community
I'm going under the assumption Fedor will never be in the UFC.
I just have serious doubts. So long as Fedor’s people continue to press for co-promotion, as well as not being tied to the UFC, then its never gonna happen. And you know what? I’m fine with that. Sure I’d love to see Fedor vs Brock or anyone else in the UFC, but if it doesn’t happen, I don’t really care too much. At this point, there are already so many compelling match-ups to be made, that if the Fedor thing doesn’t happen, I’m not concerned.
I love me some Sexyama!
This might be a totally ridiculous idea, but let's shred it before discarding it.
What about letting M-1 into TUF somehow? Have an M-1 vs. TUF alum season or something like that, which would give M-1 their much-desired mainstream coverage, and could actually provide some real entertainment, along with allowing both parties to semi-sort-of stand by their original negotiating positions. Any fighter who ends up in the UFC is simply a UFC fighter, but they can reference their past in the M-1 stable often enough to satisfy Fink.
Naturally, this precludes the idea of co-promotion of events between M-1 and UFC, but it provides a lot of the value sought after by Fedor and his management.
Thoughts?
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Has been discussed
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/7/19/954590/best-idea-to-get-fedor-into-the-ufc
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Ah, I see.
Thanks for the link. I still think there’s a way to make something like this happen, but obviously I’m not the first to bring it up.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Dana's response to this..
Fuck no, you stupid fucking Russians. The fucking UF-fucking-C doesnt need fucking Fedor or any of his butt-fucking buddies. Call us when you are ready to fucking sign our fucking contract you fucking fuck.
Sincerely,
Dana fucking White
p.s. Fuck
see attachment:Middlefinger.jpg
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
For Dana to be cool with that, I think that M-1 would have to be a Russia-only promotion.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 26, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m totally baffled by the fact that some people are taking Finke’s words about co-promoting as set in stone. Have you guys ever cut a business deal? Lying and obfuscating the items you really want and the items you are genuinely willing to compromise on isn’t just common, it’s a best practice. I pray that one day I have the pleasure of sitting across a negotiation table from some of you.
If you are sitting down with a fruit merchant and you want to buy apples, the first thing you do is start haggling over the price of oranges. You don’t say “I want this many apples, and I have this much money in my wallet.” If you do that, you might as well bend over and pull down your pants.
What were people expecting him to say? If this week hasn’t taught people to not take the words of MMA businessmen at face value, maybe nothing ever will.
If the co-promotion thing wasn’t a necessity then Fedor would already be in the UFC.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 26, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Champion’s clause, Sambo competitions, etc. It’s not just about M-1 getting their noses dirty.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Lorenzo said the sambo thing could be worked out, the champions clause expires after one year or 3 fights.
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Lorenzo didn’t say the part about the champion’s clause, it’s just the standard UFC contract language:
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/inside-the-standard-zuffa-contract-9734
Sherdog.com has confirmed the existence of a so-called champion’s clause, which provides that “if, at the expiration of the Term, Fighter is then UFC champion, the Term shall be automatically extended for a period commencing on the Termination Date and ending on the earlier of (i) one (1) year from the Termination Date; or (ii) the date on which Fighter has participated in three (3) bouts promoted by ZUFFA following the Termination Date (”Extension Term"). Any references to the Term herein shall be deemed to include a reference to the Extension Term, where applicable."
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Every fighter on the roster has that clause.
Fedor ain’t that fucking special.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 26, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Fedro, Tyler Durden says....
You are not special
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 26, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Does anyone think if Fedor does come to the UFC and Lesnar beats him Dana will let him stand in the middle of the octagon and take a piss on the Bud Light sign
Once Fedor is one of his fighters?
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Fedor getting utterly fleeced and robbed by his managers is THE BIGGEST STORY IN MMA UNTOLD.
FInkie takes A 1 MILLION DOLLAR CONSULTING FEE FROM FEDOR. FACT. (this is in his personally controlled bank account – not M1 which he also controls)
The wannabe journalists who defend the rest of the money and benfits M-1 takes from Fedor excuse with saying “well he’s a shareholder”…
This is the biggest conflict of interest in histroy.
What manager would advise his client to put his money in one of the worst business investments in the past decade? You place your retirement money in SANE investments.
If this was viable dont you think Tito would have done it?
But lets say this venture is an utter success… It still doesnt mean shit.
I if you own 49% or less and I control 51% I can siphon out every single penny without you being able to do shit.
by mmalogic on Jul 26, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I don’t know how the company is set up or what they do.
But Vadim is not acting as a fiduciary. He is having his main client invest his money in M-1, a ludicrous investment scheme. There is an inherent conflict of interest here that anyone can see. Vadim is quite obviously looking out for himself, not putting his client’s interests first. How else to explain $300,000 going to Fedor and 2 million to M-1? This is obvious for everyone to see.
by Michael Rome on Jul 26, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You don’t know how much Fedor is investing in M-1 Global. After receiving that $2 million payment Vadim could very well scratch a check to Fedor for $1.8 million. You have no understanding of the arrangement or M-1 Global money trail. To continue to insinuate the that the money is going Vadim’s secret Cayman Island account is irresponsible speculation.
They live in Russia for christ sakes. You don’t exactly want you neighbors to know you have a fortune sitting in the bank account if you want a quiet lifestyle. If you look at from a cultural perspective a clouded, confusing fiduciary has it’s benefits.
Honestly, if you think Fink is sending Fedor $1.8 million I have a number of great investment schemes I’d like to sell you. A fiduciary should never tie all of his client’s fortunes to his, it creates a conflict of interest. Nobody in the world can really believe Fink is primarily looking out for Fedor.
I mean, at some point, reality has to set in for people. EXC will never die! Dead. Affliction is doing great! Dead. Vadim is really looking out for Fedor, sending him most of that extra money! please.
by Michael Rome on Jul 26, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, if that were the case why wouldn’t the money just go directly to Fedor in the first place?
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
Again, refer to what we talked about earlier.. people want to skew things so they are right and usually continue to think they are right no matter what.
You can talk all day long about where Fedor lives and that his management could very well send Fedor money, but none of that has any relevance when time and time again decisions are made and partnerships are created for the sole benefit of not Fedor.
So M1 all of sudden hiring people and having shows after fedor gets a contract is a coincedence?
Who the fuck is bankrolling m1’s show later this month?
The gross abuse of Vadims fiduciary responsibility is completely apparent and anyone with half a brain can see this.
You think Rich Franklin would subsidize “Adrenaline MMA” with his fight purse???
Monte Cox has way more experience in this business than Vadim&Co and Franklin would never dream of doing this.
This is not like putting your money in a 401k.
Now what I’m talking about is even beyond this. Im talking about outright theft. taking a fighters purse and investing it into dubious schemes is beyond unethical… Negotiating a 1 million dollar “consultants fee” for yourself every time fedor fights – artificially lowering Fedors pay is downright theft.
Fedors kids, grandkids and family are being raped here.
Its like me negotiating on behalf of rampage and I negotiate 2 million dollars with Zuffa. and then I structure the deal where Zuffa pays 1 million to me as a “Consulting fee” and I tell Rampage you fight for 1 million of which half will be invested in a fight promotion which you are a shareholder but we call the shots.
by mmalogic on Jul 26, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Source?… do I look like a fuckin journalist to you?
The day a journalist does some digging this will all come out. Finkie takes a million bucks for himself – FACT… this does not include the money that is “invested” into M1.
Now that Affliction is done I am pretty sure everything will come dripping out because EVERYONE there knows how much Fedor is getting fucked.
It’s really that difficult to source your FACT? Really? Because if you feel the need to type all this stuff out, my guess is that you want people to believe it. I could tell you the world’s flat and say FACT! afterwards, but it doesn’t really mean that much now, does it?
Hey, if Fedor does make it to the UFC, do you think he could fight in one of those new weight classes you’ve been promising for months now?
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
For reference
Logic normally has insider info and never cites a source. He’s right 95% of the time. He isn’t a writer for this site, so you can choose whether to believe him or not. I, for one, regularly take his word as fact.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
I have no doubt that he has insider info. That’s not what I’m saying. He doesn’t very often come in here and say FACT though, when referring to something. Facts are proven.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
I’ve seen him say FACT many times in the past. Maybe it’s a bold accusation, but, like I said, you can choose whether or not to believe him. He’s not going to post a link to Tatame or something.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
The difference between you (BeerMonster) and mmalogic posting “fact” is that logic has built up “cred”. As Blackout said, he’s posted tons of stuff previously that has come true or was pretty damn close. You don’t like it and that’s fine, but the cheap shot isn’t needed.
And he’s also posted lots of stuff that hasn’t been true. I’m just tired of all the people that come in here throwing around “facts” when there’s nothing to be said to back them up. I’ll stop now.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
What did he say that wasn’t true? That Affliction would only have two shows?
…….
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
The joke I made above about the new weight classes would be one thing.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
195?
I don’t remember him promising it, but he may have and I missed it. I was gone for about a month there..
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
you think things happen over night? I said WEC would be getting rid of all its heavier weight classes 6 months before it happened. This things dont work on your schedule.
195 is coming soon.
165 or 162 will be next and will probably be used as leverage to get a better TV deal for the WEC (all 155 will move to the wec).
Once they add 195 and 165, will they change WW to 175? That would make things nice and simple.
It ends in an armbar or a strangle regardless.
I wonder where GSP will end up fighting at. He could probably make 165.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 26, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
But again you dont have to believe me…
All a journalist has to do is call 3 people and YOULL HAVE THE BIGGEST UNTOLD STORY IN THE MMA COMMUNITY:
1) Monte Cox (he’s a manager and he’s dealt with Vadim)
2) Tom Attencio or someone higher at affliction (this is where all the shit is)
3) Fedors people – to get their comments on all this shit found out by talking to affliction and Monte.
Don King will look like Santa.
I like Fedor and I think he’s a beautiful human being and artist…
I can pretty much guarantee his next fight will be in the UFC – but this poor soul has been fucked and it would be criminal for this story not to come out.
Its very apparent the “fiduciary role” has been grossly abused – this anyone can see… but all the shit that is not seen needs to come out and needs the proper attention of a journalist.
by mmalogic on Jul 26, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It does fit with the fact that neither Dana or Lorenzo has ever met Fedor personally. I mean, there is a reason why my good friend the weed dealer never introduces me to his supplier.
Also, mmalogic, I have to ask
according to you this has been going on for quite some time. You obviously have an agenda that would be served by making this public. Why are you talking about this now as opposed to earlier?
It’s one thing to state as fact that M-1 looks to leech off of investors who are willing enough pay Fedor ridiculous amounts of money. There’s a track record of that happening.
However, to state as fact that Fedor’s management is robbing him blind without sources is nothing but conjecture or hearsay on your part.
by a tommy point on Jul 26, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
This seems to be difficult for some people to understand, but logic is the source.
He isn’t getting this stuff from a website or another forum post. He gets this information from being involved in the business in some way.
there are plenty of facts that aren’t written down somewhere on the internet, that doesn’t make them any less true.
Logic is not the source, unless he works for Affliction, M-1, or one of M-1’s former partners (highly unlikely). He clearly got his information from somewhere, either first hand by speaking to parties involved or through the grapevine. Did Atencio, Cox, etc tell whoever this and it eventually reached logic? He seems to think those individuals would absolutely agree with what he is saying. There can only be so many people with direct knowledge of the situation, so just say it comes from one of those people and that it was passed along through whatever anonymous parties in order to reach him.
If he wants to say fact, then site where the info originated from. If not, just repeat the usual line about how he’ll be proven right in the end and be done with it.
Bleh, this is getting too pedantic, as these mega threads are wont to do. (Guilty as charged)
by a tommy point on Jul 27, 2009 6:06 AM EDT up reply actions
That isn’t necessarily true. Under general US company law, majority shareholders in a closely held company have a duty not to screw the minority shareholders. I’m not saying M-1 global is a closely held company, because I have no idea. I’m just saying that it isn’t 100% certain that Fedor would have no recourse if he’s getting ripped off by another shareholder.
I can give you 49% of a company I have and siphon out all the profit by giving “jobs” to 5 , 10 or 20 relatives. This is one of a million ways its done.
The infamous “consultant”. Politicians love those positions..
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Is it Gary or Jerry? I can never remember, I always call him by another name…
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
I hate that guy for breaking up Quadros and Bas. What a piece of…
Only in Japan could someone see value in that guy. Well, I guess M-1 liked his ability to kiss more ass than was previously thought possible.
by a tommy point on Jul 27, 2009 6:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I say..
Let Dana and Finkel fight in the octagon and the winner picks the Contract details.
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Jul 26, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions
This makes me lose much respect i had of Fedor.
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Jul 26, 2009 3:15 PM EDT reply actions
Honestly, I’m tired of this crap. Everyone in the UFC has signed the same sort of contract, yet Fedor who can’t draw more than 100,000 buys on his own in the US needs some sort of special contract. I’m sorry, but this is insane. I’m tired of Finkie. I’m tired of M-1 sticking their name on something and doing nothing for the promotion. Look what M-1 has done for Affliction and Bodog Fight. UFC should not give in to co-promoting with M-1. If Fedor doesn’t want to agree to the same terms as everyone else, including the champion’s clause, then he go back to Japan and fight the Hong Man Choi’s of the world and take relevant fights once every year. If he doesn’t sign with the UFC, especially now, then IMO I believe he will be known as the Floyd Mayweather of MMA. A guy who built his career legitimately beating tough opponents, but then was more concerned with protecting his status as an unbeatable fighter than fighting the best.
Oh and Vadim is a leach.
by filipinomix2oo0 on Jul 26, 2009 3:28 PM EDT reply actions
M-1 and WAMMA should co-promote
Fedor vs the ghost that haunted Filho for the WAMMA heavyweight title.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin
by ufc4 on Jul 26, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can we just not worry about Fedor and move on to the fighters that AREN’T under the management of another selfserving promotion? Kay, thanks…bye.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
HOW FEDOR CAN HELP GET SIGNED WITH UFC
Loss 30 of those 35 people in his crew coming over on the plane while Afflication 3 was being Old Yellered
by RipeTide on Jul 26, 2009 5:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
also....
They will NEVER co-promote with M-1 beyond…
“standing in this corner from Russia hailing from M-1 Fighting, he is Fedor!!!!!”
I think the UFC may just pay Finkie 10 million to fuck off. Probably easier that way.
Keep firing Assholes!
Thanks to Bisping's reenactment of the Battle of Cowpens, walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
I think the UFC may just pay Finkie 10 million to fuck off. Probably easier that way.
Finkie can just fuck off because he ain’t getting a penny from Dana, this guy is beyond delusional and it’s time that people come to grips with the fact that Fedor ain’t coming to the UFC. The UFC has proven that their business works because they do it their way, they don’t compromise about things it’s their way or fuck you just like Fedor is going to find out.
I’m giving this one last chance actually. If it doesn’t happen real soon, it never will.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
As long as they are wanting to copromote with the UFC it will never happen. The rest of the stuff M1 wants can be worked out, I think.
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