Should Affliction Pull the Plug on Trilogy Since Fedor Emelianenko vs Josh Barnett Is off?
by Kid Nate on Jul 22, 2009 1:29 PM EDT
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Steve Cofield thinks so:
What a mess. Affliction was all ready to put on a huge card, probably its last, and now its main event may be up in smoke. ... Some of the names being floated as replacements 10 days from the fight are ridiculous - middleweight Vitor Belfort and neophite heavyweight Bobby Lashley. Other options include Paul Buentello, who is already on the card, slated to fight Gilbert Yvel. Fabricio Werdum is also now available, now that his fight against Alistair Overeem has been dumped.
...Without Barnett, is it worth it for Affliction to move forward with this card? Maybe its time to swallow pride and call the big boys, Strikeforce or the UFC, and see what can be done to get out from under this mountain of losses.
Affliction boss Tom Atencio isn't listening, at least not yet, per Michael David Smith:
Tom Atencio, the head of the Affliction MMA promotion, confirmed to FanHouse on Wednesday morning that Josh Barnett has been pulled out of his scheduled August 1 heavyweight title fight with Fedor Emelianenko. But Atencio said he still expects the Affliction Trilogy card to take place as scheduled.
...
Asked whether the Affliction: Trilogy card at the Honda Center in Anaheim was still going on as planned on August 1, Atencio answered, "At this point, yes."
It appears that Affliction is leaning towards the ridiculous (Vitor Belfort) rather than the sublime (Fabricio Werdum) but I can understand the business realities that would drive a decision like that.
Marketing Fedor vs Werdum as a credible PPV headliner in the states would literally take months, if not years, as it would require featuring Werdum in at least a couple of very impressive build-up fights. Belfort may be a silly opponent for Fedor, but he is the biggest name they can get at this late date.
At the same time, Affliction's marketing has been aimed at the hardcore audience of U.S. MMA fans. Face it, who else knows or cares about Fedor? Their entire brand as a fight promotion has been built on giving the hardcore fans dream fights -- Fedor vs former UFC champs Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski; Vitor Belfort vs Matt Lindland; Soukoudjou vs Babalu Sobral.
The current card had been stacked with fights aimed at pleasing the hardcores, consulting the USAT/SBN MMA Rankings, I see we had the #1 heavyweight Fedor vs the #2 heavyweight Barnett; the best middleweight fight possible outside the UFC with #9 Vitor Belfort vs #6 Jorge Santiago.
Dropping the Belfort vs Santiago fight just to get a recognized name on the top of the card does more than water down the headliner, it kills one of the most anticipated fights on the card.
At this point, I have to agree with Cofield, Affliction should pull the plug on this disaster, call it a day as a promotion and send their fighters to Strikeforce for a couple of hellacious co-promoted Showtime cards.
UPDATE: Josh Gross has some more analysis on what's involved in getting Belfort in the ring with Fedor:
"We want the fight, but also to be paid comparably to others who have fought Fedor," Belfort's trainer, Shawn Tompkins, said via text message.
In 2007, Matt Lindland moved up from 185 pounds to fight Fedor for a purse of $750,000. Former UFC heavyweight champions Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski earned $800,000 and $1.5 million, respectively. Barnett was expected to earn as much as Arlovski.
...
If Belfort comes to terms, Tompkins expects him to step into the ring near 215 pounds. Considering the Brazilian was preparing to fight his countryman Jorge Santiago at 185 on the Affliction "Trilogy" card in Anaheim, Calif., it's likely the "Phenom" would make for the fastest opponent Emelianenko has ever faced. Since Emelianenko, longtime Pride champ and current WAMMA heavyweight king, relies on speed for much of his success, the possibility of him fighting sans that advantage is intriguing. There remains, however, major risk for Belfort and the potential for a completely one-sided fight. Though the 32-year-old Brazilian recently drew praise and interest for performances at middleweight, challenging Emelianenko on short notice could be detrimental to more than his comeback.
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I think people are overstating Barnett’s importance here. Fedor’s the draw, not Josh. Throwing him in there with Werdum isn’t going to plummet the buyrate in my opinion. Taking Belfort out of his matchup with Santiago isn’t very smart though, since the undercard is a major draw to the hardcores out there.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
Yeah, I don’t get this line that Werdum is a huge step down. How many buys is Barnett bringing to the table? Or, how many buys is Affliction losing without him on the card? I can’t imagine it’s too much.
Throwing Belfort in there is just robbing Peter to pay Paul. You’re destroying what was arguably the most compelling matchup on the card (sorry, Fedor destroys Barnett 95/100 times) to generate non-existent pay-per-view buys.
I have a hard time believing they can’t get one the six or seven heavyweight names being tossed around to fight Fedor. I’d much rather see Fedor fight Buentello (which is probably the least compelling fight of the available heavies) than Vitor.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
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by Mike Fagan on Jul 22, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s a good question. I know they’re getting at least one less. I wanted to see Barnett fight Fedor, but have zero interest in him fighting Werdum.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jul 22, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree. Fedor at least needs a credible opponent for people to purchase the PPV. An opponent people think he has even a slight chance of losing against. Without that, you get Fedor/Lindland buyrates.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Jul 22, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
that's my point
Werdum will sell to the hardcores who buy Afflction PPVs.
But I bet they go for Bret Rogers.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Werdum would not attract the same number of fans as a Fedor/Barnett fight.
This is doomed.
by AlwaysRelaxing on Jul 22, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 22, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I got depression...
…about the whole thing. I’ve wanted Fedor vs Barnett forever now.
They need to leave the Belfort fight alone, and get Monson or Rogers to fight Fedor.
I’d like to see Rogers replace Overeem vs Werdum, and Monson vs Fedor.
Belfort vs Fedor is ridiculous.
If Fedor doesn’t sign with the UFC after this, I’m unfortunately going to lose interest in him, only because there’s noone left outside of the UFC other than Overeem that I’d be interested in seeing him fight.
Keep Swillin',
Bruz
That's exactly what I want.
Monson/ Fedor would be a very good fight IMO, and Rogers/ Werdum is a very good #1 contender match for the Strikeforce HW title.
Not to mention, the WAMMA HW belt doesn’t mean anything, so giving a title shot to a fringe top 10 HW shouldn’t be a problem. ;)
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 22, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Pull The Plug???
Absolutely not. Only hardcore fans were going to buy the card because of Josh. Replacing Josh with Werdum, Monson, Rogers, Arona would not really harm the card in any way, really. Hard core fans that know Josh would still watch the event.
If they DO get Vitor to fight Fedor in the main event, then Affliction better make sure they get Santiago a GREAT replacement because many fans are looking forward to that fight, and that IMHO, would hurt the card more than just replacing Barnett with a top HW that is not currently on the card.
I doubt this. 1 vs 2 is a much better main event than whatever they’ll scratch together at this point. Hardcore fans know that.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jul 22, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Most hardcore fans also know Barnett shouldn’t be #2.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Jul 22, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Bullshit.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 22, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Debatable, but I tend to agree.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jul 24, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
A guy I follow on twitter...
Just said that Belfort is Josh’s replacement.
twitter.com/1045mma
The guy is Chris Pappas. He hosts a local MMA radio show in Nashville, TN. 104.5 the zone.
No dont pull the plug damnit i wanna see Fedor fight. Put Werdum in there Atencio. Think man, THINK!
GSP: I pulled my groin.
Greg Jackson: I don't care Georges! HIT HIM WITH YOUR GROIN!
Yeah, only problem is that it needs Coker’s okay and he probably still wants Werdum for the Aug. 15th show. Same for Rogers (doesn’t want to kill his momentum). We will see.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 22, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought Coker said he was scrapping Werdum altogether for the 15th?
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
I heard they still wanted Werdum on the card and they were looking for an opponent. If they did scrap the entire fight, than I don’t see any reason not to do this fight. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 22, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
People know Belfort
I’m not sure it’d be a huge failure, and Belfort would not look THAT small compared to Fedor. Comparable height… I’m sure Fedor would have 25 pounds on him or so..
Barnett was overhyped from the time that this match was announced. I bet he drops in the rankings for no reason.
Creator of the FightMatrix rating system.
There would be a 20 lbs or less difference between the two by fight time. Fedor usually fights HW’s that outweigh him by 40, easily.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 22, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I said this in another post, but it needs repeating….
If Dana White said he signed Brock Lesnar vs. Nathan Marquardt, people would be pissed and saying it shouldn’t even be sanctioned. Or even Lesnar/Okami or Lesnar/Henderson.
This fight is no different. Belfort was supposed to compete 2 weight classes below Fedor on the same card. This fight should not be sanctioned.
I say they make Fedor cut to 205.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jul 22, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
That might be a good idea.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
Haha.
Fedor. Cutting weight. Dieting. Dehydrating himself.
HAH
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 22, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t pull the plug. Give Brett Rogers a Josh Barnett payday and a “Grimm” T-shirt deal.
by madiq on Jul 22, 2009 1:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Put in Buentello. Love that guy.
"Negative, negative. I gotta stay lean and lightning and ready to fight." Capt. H.M. Murdock
DON’T FEAR ME!!!!
…
*crickets.wav.file
GSP: I pulled my groin.
Greg Jackson: I don't care Georges! HIT HIM WITH YOUR GROIN!
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 22, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Fear the
consequences…?
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 22, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I say Atencio should get in there and fight Fedor, he wouldn't have to pay himself anything!
Tom fighting Fedor makes as much sense as Vitor fighting Fedor….this sucks…If Kimbo wasn’t with the UFC now he would be a shoe in replacement. To lose of course.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
i love affliction......
Way to be thrown under a speeding bus. For those of you who thought they would make it must feel stupid.
They just need to cut their losses get a big draw heavyweight and just let the undercard please the hardcore fans.
If they want big draw for mainstream crowd get tito or bobby lashley. If they want to please the hardcore fans put in werdum or monson.
"What do you want from me?..... A Slap?"
by xtremecouture on Jul 22, 2009 1:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
As for the sanctioning issues – Justin Eilers fought Antonio Silva in Stockton, and they cleared it. The official weights were:
Justin Eilers (218) vs. Antonio Silva (257.5)
So this shouldn’t be a sanctioning issue.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
Errr..
Eilers vs Silva wasn’t a last second boost 35 pound boost. It was a scheduled fight and Eilers missed weight. It takes six pounds to start thinking about shutting it down.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
This is good in the end. I like Affliction but there shows are just too few far and between. All that talent shouel be in better shows. UFC/SF/Dream :) You know Fedor will end up in Dream in the end. Makes me sick!
GSP: I pulled my groin.
Greg Jackson: I don't care Georges! HIT HIM WITH YOUR GROIN!
As it should be. Dream without Fedor sucks and the New Years Eve shows are just not the same without him.
I think Belfort has a better chance of winning than Werdum anyways
Werdum wasn’t going to be overmatched in the standup and I don’t think he would present any problems with Fedor on the ground.
I think Fedor would have a tough time with Vitor on the feet and would likely look to get the fight to the ground. Vitor has fast, heavy hands and is the same height as Fedor.
Fedor would likely have likely have a 15-20lb weight advantage. I’m not sure Vitor could pull it off but he has a better chance than anyone else available except maybe Brett Rogers.
Werdum
presents problems for ANYONE on the ground.
And the fact that you said BRETT FUCKING ROGERS has the 2’nd best chance in the world of beating Fedor means that you can’t know all that much.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 22, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s too much on the line to pull the plug.
They spent their whole ad budget already. Tons of fighters they sponsor have spent thousands preparing for this fight. They risk tons of relationships to cancel, and ultimately the whole goal of this show is to satisfy their contractual obligations so they can get out of promoting. I don’t see any better main event for them down the line, they should just go with Belfort or Rogers.
If the CSAC was going to wait this long.....
why didn’t they just bust him after the damn fight? This is ridiculous!
Two questions comes to my mind.
This was supposed to be for the WAMMA Heavyweight Title. If they don’t find a high enough ranked heavyweight to fight Fedor then WAMMA by their own rules can’t sanction this fight right?
So it’s a possibility whoever they get might end up fighting Fedor in only a 3 round fight?
The other question that comes to mind is this greatly devalues the GoDaddy sponsorship for the event. What effect will this have on that sponsorship? Will GoDaddy also pull out?
1) LOL at WAMMA. Rogers would be a top 10 HW, though, I don’t think WAMMA is anyone’s worry at this point.
2) GoDaddy will still be their sponsor. Fedor is still the main event on the card, and the card is still a great card.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 22, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't care about the WAMMA belt.
The point was the main event could end up being only a 3 round fight instead of 5 round fight if they don’t find a high enough ranked heavyweight to put in there to meet WAMMA’s standards of sanctioning a WAMMA title fight.
Vitor Belfort doesn’t meet WAMMA’s criteria to sanction that fight for their belt so if Vitor fought Fedor it would only be a 3 round fight right? That was the point I was trying to make.
1) wamma hasn’t updated their rankings since may, and since they every person involved with wamma who has a recognizable name has left the org.
2) I believe the rule is that as long as Fedor is fighting at HW, the belt is on the line. There may be some requirement that he has to fight a top 10 fighter once a year, but whatever the actual rule is, it’s just another piece of the ridiculous puzzle that is/was WAMMA.
WAMMA’s previously stated rules doesn’t allow Fedor to just fight anyone for their belt. They have to meet a certain criteria and Vitor doesn’t meet that criteria.
No worries. The bout will be 5 rounds for the belt.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 22, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It won't go past 2
Regardless of who they put up against Fedor
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jul 22, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You are imagining things dude, the only rule they have is that the champion has to fight 1 top 10 fighter every 12 months.
From the 20 questions things where all bloody elbow readers with a brain decided that WAMMA was useless,
12. What happens IF Fedor does indeed fight on New Year’s Eve in Japan (despite what Affliction says) against some freakshow opponent, and God forbids… gets beaten? Naturally since no Japanese organization recognizes WAMMA™, this fight would not be sanctioned as an ‘official’ WAMMA™ fight, yet the top WAMMA™ fighter has lost, so will Fedor lose his belt if he drops in to second place in the WAMMA™ standings even though he lost to a non-WAMMA™fighter?
(Mike Lynch writes) There is a saying, "To be the man, you’ve gotta beat the man". If Fedor gets beaten, be it a fluke or not, why should WAMMA somehow NOT recognize that fighter as a champion? Remember, Buster Douglas was a 100-1 underdog against Mike Tyson. Did the boxing community and fans discredit Buster Douglas simply because his victory was a long-shot (“Long Count” arguments aside)? If a fighter beats Fedor in a legitimate MMA match, that fighter would be entitled to be called a WAMMA champion. In regard to rankings, a loss by Fedor would have to be evaluated by the WAMMA Ranking Committee. And although a drop in the rankings would almost certainly be assured, the degree of such a demotion in the rankings could not be predicted and would depend on a number of factors, and ultimately, the combined votes of the Committee.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/10/15/635827/exclusive-wamma-officials
Whoever Fedor fights in a HW fight has a chance to win the belt.
quote fail but whatever.
It will be for the useless belt, unless WAMMA had to take the belt back and sell it at some point between now and the last fight.
O.k. I know that quote proves your point. But I’m not imagining things. I’m pretty sure there have been other quotes that contradicts that quote. I wish I had time right now to look for them. They have also stated they would only sanction fights between the top ranked fighters in any division to give their belts credibility as “Undisputed Champions”. Sanctioning a fight between Fedor and a middleweight doesn’t exactly give much credibility to that “Undisputed Champion” thing. Defeating the whole purpose of WAMMA but that is a whole other discussion.
They absolutely cannot and will not pull the plug on this show. They’re going to see a shit ton more losses from killing it altogether than they will from the loss of buys. It’s not like this thing it going to drive from 500k to 150k or something. It’s going to be hover around 100 no matter what happens. And, as Rome pointed out, they can’t suffer the indignity they will cause the fighters that have been training for their fight, paying trainers and managing their weight. Fedor is still available for a fight and he will fight someone. And let’s not pretend that there needs to be a legitimate contender, because none of you picked Barnett to begin with.
"The reason a rabbit outruns a fox is because the rabbit is running for his life and the fox is running for his dinner."
by Blackout612 on Jul 22, 2009 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
That's a green.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 22, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
What If Tito
Takes this fight and by some miracle wins…it would be the biggest win of his career and he’ll finally have some credibility behind that huge frickin ego
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