CSAC Proves That out-of-Competition Drug Testing Works
One of the storylines that should be focused on following the report by Sherdog.com that Josh Barnett has tested positive for a substance and will not be allowed to battle Fedor Emelianenko is that out-of-competition drug testing actually works. Zach Arnold over at FightOpinion.com makes his case:
There is a bigger lesson to be learned here when thinking about this story. The lesson to be learned is that out-of-competition drug testing works and that drug testing right before and right after a fight is nice and everything, but it doesn’t ultimately catch a lot of the cheaters. Drug testing at events makes for nice PR more than it does make for great policy.
This is a very true statement, but it's one of the most obvious statements one could make when it comes to any drug testing within the realm of sports. If fighters know that drug testing will be done before and after events, it gives said fighters a time schedule in which they can avoid testing positive if they happen to be using performance-enhancing drugs or narcotics.
Most fans theorize about the cycling of many athletes who have been popped, most notably Sean Sherk. Other athletes who use synthetically-made, but naturally-ocurring PED's like Nandrolone are normally said to have cycled inconsistently, and a failed drug test resulted from poor management of their cycle. The fact of the matter is that there are probably a lot more fighters than we actually know about who manage their cycles meticulously, and those fighters are avoiding the consequences.
Narcotics are also a problem, and if you've read any of the CSAC transcripts from some of their meetings, they've had a history of fighters testing positive for a numerous narcotic drugs at once. Like PED's, some narcotics are only detectable for a short time in your bloodstream. This is definitely more of a safety precaution than anything, and do we really want addicts fighting MMA?
With out-of-competition drug testing, random testing is going to catch some of these fighters. In this case, it's a huge blow to Josh Barnett's career and image. He's already been caught in the past following his win over Randy Couture in 2002, but this positive test was before a Heavyweight title fight that many fans have been looking forward to for years. Not only is this going to turn a lot of fans away from Josh Barnett, but it'll probably keep a superfight between these two heavyweights from ever happening unless it takes place in Japan.
The bigger issue here, however, is that no fighter can escape a random drug testing structure. Everyone from prominent stars to low-level regional fighters will be impacted by this type of testing, and it can easily hurt their careers and money-making prospects. With this positive test by Barnett, we could definitely see a shift in the thinking that some athletes within the sport have about using PED's or narcotics. Interestingly enough, the CSAC did something right for once.
UPDATE: From Dave Meltzer
Contrary to original reports, Barnett said his June 25th drug test that came up positive was not part of California's new random out of competition testing. It was a test on a day Barnett himself chose as part of his licensing procedure in the state as his license had expired. ....
The California State Athletic Commission had previously released that Barnett was the first person to take an out of competition drug test, saying he performed a test in front of a commission inspector and he was given 48 hours notice to show up for the test. The commission said Barnett was surprised by the call from the office but came the next day after the call and complied with the test.
So, we now have a conflict of quotes here. Barnett is saying that the test was not an out-of-competition drug testing, but a part of his licensing procedure. The CSAC released previously that Barnett was the first person to take an out of competition drug test. Barnett was surprised by the call... hmmm. Who's right?
UPDATE: From Ariel Helwani at MMA Fanhouse:
Bill Douglas: And it just so happens that the first one [random drug test] we've ever done here in California produced a result.
Ariel Helwani: This is the first one ever?
Bill Douglas: First one ever. I mean, right out of the gate.
Ariel Helwani: That's incredible.
Bill Douglas: It's unbelievable.
Looks like it was an out-of-competition test. OOC works obviously. It busted someone in its FIRST EVER use.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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This is assuming that it’s a steroid he has tested positive for. I’m not saying that it’s not, but all we know at this point is that he tested positive for “something.”
I’m quite interested to hear what it is and what Barnett’s explanation/excuse is going to be.
Well, it doesn’t matter really. Positive test for a narcotic or steroid, out-of-competition drug testing catches fighters who aren’t following the rules to be licensed to fight. We’ve had this huge problem with fighters probably cycling or getitng off drugs before fights. This eliminates it.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Definitely….wasn’t arguing that point.
In the other thread about the fight being called off, I was however saying that the CSAC probably should have tested a few weeks earlier and given the promotion time to make adjustments. Not their job to make sure the card happens, but it is good business to do so.
Well, testing takes quite some time for that type of testing.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, and they know this going in. So, with that in mind, why would they schedule a test they know takes 3 weeks to show results 4 1/2 weeks out from the event?
To tie that in to your original point about cycling, you’re more likely to catch a fighter 7-8 weeks out than closer to the fight.
As I said in the other thread though, the solve to all this is for fighter’s not to cheat.
Well, the timing should be a non-factor. It’s random. It can happen at any time.
Plus, Affliction takes the risk in setting up an event that this could happen. And technically… you aren’t more likely. It depends on the steroid.
Nandrolone’s half life is like 4 days. You could cycle in that length of time, whereas Boldenone is WAY higher, like six months.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think timing should be a non-factor. Yes, random means random, but it’s bad business on the CSAC’s part to do testing when they know the results will come out so close to the event.
Again, the fault is fully with Barnett for testing positive, but the CSAC made a bad situation worse by their timing, and put the entire card and promotion in jeopardy.
Bad business? CSAC is there to protect fighters, and stop violations of their rules. They shouldn’t care about timing whatsoever because if that was the case, said fighter could smartly use that to his advantage to cycle or take drugs.
If they tested a week out, then it should be up to the CSAC to get those results back in a day or two, but that wasn’t the case here.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Fighters shouldn’t cheat. That’s obviously the main point, and one I’m sure we can agree on.
I’m just saying they could potentially schedule their tests a little better and not leave the promotion in the lurch a week out from the event.
That’s the argument. You can’t just schedule the test. Yeah, I see your point in more convenience, but if they did that, fighters would find out that hey… I can cycle after such a date because the testing would take too long to get back.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
From a fan’s point of view, I’d rather see the event happen and a fighter’s test come back AFTERWARDS, then to possibly see the entire event canceled and a promotion go out of business.
I’m not saying sit on test results or anything…..I guess I just feel bad Affliction…..I would guess that Tom Attencio will be personally keeping TUMS in business for the next two weeks
Ultimately, you’re beginning to scratch the surface of an argument that has been gaining steam after Manny Ramirez tested positive for PED’s.
Since Barnett tested positive, and as you say, the convenience factor along with losing Affliction buys and money from Barnett’s positive test, there has been traction regarding players being held responsible for such things happening.
When Manny was busted, some GMs were behind the idea of said player paying back millions that had been paid to him because he had “broken” an agreement in his contract. They wouldn’t be using his services because he tested positive.
This situation with Barnett hits at the argument because technically… this fucks over Affliction. Nothing will ever come out of that concept in either MLB or MMA, but that’s what this argument is heading towards.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It’d be interesting to see what could come of that, but I doubt very many fighters have the $$$ to repay a promotion in a case like this.
At least in MMA, Barnett doesn’t get paid at all in a case like this.
Nothing will ever come out of it. It’s just something gaining steam in MLB, but the player’s union in MLB would never allow it to happen in contracts.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as MLB goes, I wouldn’t be surprised if the owners were able to get that one. The PR push against the players avoiding that would be pretty substantial, and if the owner’s really want it, they could get it in.
I don’t imagine the league would want the PR nightmare that fight would create though, so you’re right that nothing will really come of it.
It’ll never happen. Global nuclear war would happen before it ever happens.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
but the problem with that is…what if Barnett beats Fedor and then the positive test comes out.
A) You have the safety argument. A guy failed a test before a show for something and was still allowed to fight? Steroids can put strain on a guys heart and can (in theory) put the other guy at risk. Or if the guy tested positive for a dangerous narcotic…etc.
B) The MMA world would be completely flipped by crazy shit if Barnett won and then got popped. Like, what does it mean? Do we count the loss against Fedor? Do we discount it? How much of it was the drugs? …etc
C) Legitimacy. From a mainstream perspective we can’t be testing, letting athletes compete after a positive and then dinging them.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 22, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh…I did NOT mean to sit on a positive test. Obviously, if you’ve got a positive test, the fighter can’t fight.
I’m just displeased with the timing I guess. And saying that from a fan perspective, this is a bad situation in that the card might not happen and it might be the deathblow to the promotion.
Just bad timing.
Are they supposed to let him fight, and then announce it? I don’t get your reasoning here.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
No, obviously not.
I’m just saying that scheduling a test where the results will come back 10 days before the event and potentially leave the promotion up shit creek may not be the best policy.
Again, the fault is on Barnett for doing whatever he did, but why not test him a week beforehand? If you get a positive then, at least Affliction has close to 3 weeks to do something.
There was an article about a week ago that discussed how the fighters for UFC 100 were not tested prior to the event – how did that happen again?
"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Feb. 28, 2008
NSAC, right? I’m not sure, but I’m also a bit skeptical as to how their random testing works.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Because of the UFC 100 ordeal and how fighters were not tested prior to the event.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, NSAC.
"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Feb. 28, 2008
by lovingmma25 on Jul 22, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
actually Kid Nate posted something on BE about this
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/7/12/946915/did-the-nevada-state-athletic
"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Feb. 28, 2008
by lovingmma25 on Jul 22, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
This article seems like it’s jumping the gun a bit. So does Arnold’s.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
Jumping the gun on what? The testing worked. It caught someone outside of the regular pre and post fight testing. That’s the gist of the article.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I just think we should find out the circumstances first, before rushing off into praising or debunking anything.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
What circumstances are there to find out? Barnett tested positive for a banned substance. Narcotic or steroid… CSAC did their job in this instance with the out-of-competition testing. The only way this jumps the gun is if the CSAC fucked up the test, and that would be an entirely different story.
I doubt that happens here though. They switched testing facilities for PEDs, and now use what all the other major sports are using for their testing.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
gotta agree with Leland here. The circumstances are pretty clear. He was tested, it came back positive for a banned substance. Regardless of what that substance is..he was popped for a dirty test. It’s not really a “wait and see” situation beyond seeing what the substance was
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 22, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean, here’s the thing I would hate to see. If he gets popped for marijuana… I’d be a bit perturbed. Yeah, it’s a banned substance, but seriously… weed fucked up a major title fight between Fedor and Barnett? That’d be kind of strange.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
What’s the alternative, then? Do they introduce separate in-competition & out-of-competition banned substance lists?
by thepenismightier on Jul 22, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
There isn’t an alternative. It’s a banned substance. I just think it would, for lack of a better word, suck if it was simply weed.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe then people should push to get marijuana removed from the banned substance list…especially if the fighter has a prescription.
I agree with you on getting it removed from the list if that’s what fighters want, but people need to stop with the prescription shit.
It doesn’t matter if you have a prescription for it, if it’s banned, it’s banned. Employers have the right to say people can’t take certain substances. If you don’t like the list, change the list, or the change jobs
But the State of California isn’t your classical private sector employer; its policies have to pass judicial scrutiny. Even though a license to fight is a privilege, not a right, there’s still a takings analysis, and there’s room for public debate, rather than throwing up your hands and making the same tired “If my employer…” argument.
And fighters DO disclose the drugs that they’re prescribed ahead of time.
But the fact that there is a prescription doesn’t make it ok.
What if a fighter has a prescription for a steroid. What if a fighter has a prescription for HGH? What if a fighter has a prescription for oxycodone? What if a fighter has a prescription for methodone? How do you draw the line between weed and hgh? How is that fair to fighters that can’t get marijuana prescriptions because of where they live.
The fact that a doctor said it’s ok should have no bearing on whether or not it’s banned.
I think the line between weed and HGH is pretty clear.
Testing positive for weed 4 weeks out from a fight is the equivalent of testing positive for beer.
I think the point was that it shouldn’t be banned, as weed is the equivalent of alcohol moreso than it is HGH.
yes, but it is, and that’s the problem
I personally don’t use, and don’t really care if it’s on the list either way. I have a big problem with people being able to use it with a prescription while it’s on the list. That’s what I’m talking about.
Well, CSAC has procedures for disclosing whether you’re taking prescription medication, and applying for an exemption. However, that doesn’t excuse you from the requirement to piss clean for competition. My problem is the “out of competition” testing, where, except for PEDs, the State has no legitimate interest in ensuring that licensed fighters are drug-free.
Yes and no…My only thing with that is that if you know pot is banned…don’t smoke pot. Like, if I’m looking for a job, I know I’m probably going to have to take a drug test…probably shouldn’t smoke pot. Regardless of my feelings on the actual substance itself. But I see that you just said that you were simply saying it would suck. So I’ll get off my soapbox now
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 22, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I just think there would be some uproar about it if it happened, ya know.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
And rightfuly so.
The drug testing system should be there in order to ensure fair competition and not to police the bodies of fighters year-round.
by thepenismightier on Jul 22, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe there should be a push to get Marijuana off the banned substance list…at least if the fighter has a prescription for it.
Does it really belong there at all?
I mean….if you’re REALLY stoned, and can still win a fight? Kudos, sir, kudos.
Got a call in to one of the CSAC officials who will be contacting me back shortly. Trying to find out if they’ll be willing to sanction Belfort/Fedor. Update to follow.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 22, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions
I can see them not doing it. Hard to justify sanctioning a fight between a guy who should be fighting at 185 fighting a 235 pound man. It would be interesting to know what Belfort is walking around at 10 days out.
Of course, they might just do Affliction a solid and sanction it if it’s a choice between Belfort/Fedor or no card at all.
Tompkins is saying Belfort can be 215 by fight time, but I still think it hurts his speed doing that.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
that’s not “hydrating” to gain weight like guys do after they weigh in. He’ll just be eating more and putting on weight
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 22, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Speed is his only real advantage in this fight, but they’re not running a sprint. The extra weight will likely hurt his stamina too.
How much do you think the extra weight will hurt his hand speed, if at all?
Hand speed? Not a ton. Gastank? A lot. Footspeed? A lot.
But hand speed shouldn’t really be affected greatly. If he were allowed to come in at around 200 or something close to just what he is weighing now it would probably be ideal.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 22, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
The general thought on handspeed is that the heavier he is, the more tired he’ll get, thus hurting his hand speed.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Right...
natural handspeed probably isn’t affected much. but when you’re tired it’s hard to throw fast and consistently.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 22, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
THANK YOU
For writing this. I have said all along to the people with their head in the sand that the current method of testing for UFC events is a joke, just as it’s a joke with most major sports. The only effective testing is year-round, random, and with blood-testing. This test here is a step in the right direction.
BOOSH
THIS! is why I said jumping to conclusions might be a bad idea. From Meltzer:
Josh Barnett has confirmed that he has talked to the commission and his license to fight was not approved. Contrary to original reports, his June 25th drug test that came up positive was not part of California’s new random out of competition testing. It was a test on a day Barnett himself chose as part of his licensing procedure in the state as his license had expired.
http://www.fourouncestofreedom.com
We’re already debating on the other thread, but I still say it proves that out-of-competition testing works. It was at a different time than normal testing would occur that fighters know about. Barnett may very well have known about this test, and that’s even more perplexing.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah because it’s not like anyone ever test positive after an event, only with pre-event drug testing do you catch cheaters smfh. People can’t really be this naive can they?, Barnett has been caught with both to try and claim this as a victory for out of competition drug testing is silly.
It is a victory though if in fact it was an out-of-competition testing. It was claimed by the CSAC previously that this was the first one… and it busted someone.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 22, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Again you keep ignoring the fact that Barnett could have just as easily tested positive after the show, so claiming that only out of competition testing is the answer is a flawed argument.
Again, you missed the point. Testing before and after the show is known by the fighters. They know it’s coming. You can cycle down to a day or two before an event, pass the testing, and be fine. Out-of-competition testing is random and can happen almost instantaneously. That’s the reason it would work.
It is still unconfirmed whether this was OOC testing or not. Barnett continues to claim it was licensing, but CSAC has yet to refute it and already stated in the past that it was OOC testing. Nobody knows. It sounds as if the testing was for licensure procedures, but CSAC has yet to refute his statement and change their past statement. In any case, Barnett didn’t know about it.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 23, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
And THIS way, Barnett does't get a fucking dime
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 23, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions

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