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Quiet Before the Storm: St. Pierre-Alves

Gsp_be_medium

There are a few huge UFC fights coming our way in the next 5 weeks, including three title fights - in the heavyweight, welterweight and lightweight divisions.

But it's interesting to consider that while Florian-Penn is more than a month away, and Bisping-Henderson is an undercard fight on UFC 100, both of those fights - not to mention Lesnar-Mir - have been the subject of more "chatter" in the MMA blogosphere and forums recently than another fight which is a week away and as big or bigger than any of them: Georges St. Pierre vs. Thiago Alves.

Star-divide

GSP is by all accounts one of the top five pound for pound fighters in the game.  He arguably hasn't even peaked yet as a fighter, yet he's already in the conversation for the most dominant welterweight in UFC history.  He is coming off of his biggest victory - a four-round annihilation of fellow P4P contender BJ Penn - and is 11-1 in the past four and a half years.  And in one week, he's facing arguably his biggest challenge in Thiago "Pitbull" Alves.  Yet for the relative press this bout is receiving, you would think GSP and Alves were an undercard gatekeeper fight.

The reason why is not incomprehensible.  The other big fights all have subplot drama and a fair amount of smack talk to hype them. 

Florian-Penn has the intrigue of the clear #1 contender fighting the champ; speculation regarding how Penn will recover from the mauling he took from GSP; allegations that Florian tipped Penn to "greasing" by GSP, and the always-provocative subplot of GSP helping Florian train for the fight.

Mir-Lesnar is a second title fight and is the upcoming fight with a lopsided proportion of ink dedicated to it, fires that have remained stoked by both combatants as they have waged their back-and-forth verbal jousting through the MMA press.  It has the further appeal of the grudge match, the freakshow element with Brock's physique and previous life in pro wrestling, the title unification aspect which will likely see both guys' camps carry a belt into the cage, questions about how far Lesnar has evolved since his first loss to Mir - just to name a few.

Henderson-Bisping isn't even a title fight - at best it will be a title contending fight - but it has also gotten its share of attention due to the two being opposing coaches on TUF and waging their own war of words.  The UFC manufactures rivalries at times, and this is one that clearly rolled off the factory belts via the "country vs. country" theme of TUF season 9.

Against the backdrop of all of those, the 170-pound title fight that is GSP-Alves has barely made a ripple.  Despite the greatness of a dominant champ who will eventually retire as one of the best to enter a ring or cage, facing his toughest test, you can be forgiven for practically forgetting this fight is about to happen if you take your talking points from the MMA media.  The reason why is straightforward - while the three fights named above all have at least one or two main plots and multiple subplots, GSP-Alves has one basic plot: who is going to win this fantastic stylistic matchup and emerge as the welterweight champion of the UFC?

It's a purist's fight.  It carries little subplot intrigue, essentially no trash talking, two very respectful and dedicated athletes, and sells itself entirely on the stylistic clash of these two dominant fighters.  The fight is likely to hinge on whether GSP will be able to put Alves on his back often enough and keep him there long enough - while taking minimal damage on the feet from Alves' brutal muay thai skills - to wear him out as the fight progresses.  If GSP can accomplish this, he will win a decision or possibly stop Alves.  If he can't, Alves - being the most dangerous and varied striker by far that GSP has faced - could well stop Georges in the stand-up game.

To me this fight has at least one additional point of interest which hasn't been much discussed.  GSP has been methodically cleaning out the welterweight division. Referring to the USA Today/SB Nation welterweight rankings, St. Pierre has soundly dominated #3 Fitch in a 25-minute fight; destroyed #5 Hughes twice, brutally stopping him both times; outwrestled and dominated #8 Koscheck; and avenged his loss to #18 Serra with a two-round stoppage.  Beyond Alves, this leaves only Kampmann and Swick as imminent UFC challengers.  These two are tapped to square off at UFC 103 in September; the winner would in my mind be the #1 challenger. I think either would pose problems for GSP to solve, but are neither as well rounded as Penn and Fitch nor as dangerous as Alves. After that there is a dropoff; I believe Paulo Thiago, Dan Hardy, Karo Parisyan, Brock Larson, Dustin Hazelett are at least 2-3 solid wins from a title shot.

So, characterizing the title-contender queue as a series of hills to get up and over, I view Alves as the last mountain for GSP for the foreseeable future; and should he take the summit, he will have a downhill vantage point to survey any likely near-future challenge.  This in itself makes this fight worthwhile to me, as the 170-pound weight class has long been viewed as one of the deepest in MMA and its upper echelon is on the verge of being almost totally cleaned out by Georges St. Pierre.

Subplots are great.  Trash talk and side intrigue in MMA is terrific, and I love it as much as the next guy.  But save a little room in your anticipation for Georges St. Pierre vs. Thiago Alves.  It's one of the biggest MMA fights of this generation, and it's just over a week away.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

4 recs  |  Comment 36 comments

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One point of disagreement

If Paulo Thiago beats Jon Fitch, he should have to do absolutely nothing until he gets a title shot. Walking into the UFC undefeated and beating Kos and Fitch back to back, in my mind, equals an automatic shot.

by subo on Jul 2, 2009 11:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And then an alien will fly in and nail GSP with a folding chair.

Keep firing Assholes!

Out out, you demons of stupidity!

by Ubernoober on Jul 2, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree 100%.

Taking out 2 consecutive top 5 WW’s should = title shot. In the meantime, Kampmann/ Swick winner can pick off Hughes for the next shot.

Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.

'09 is the year of the FW's.

by ElliotMatheny on Jul 3, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is...

I draw a distinction between “undercard” and “prelims”.

Prelims are what you don’t see on the telecast unless one is brought up to fill time or because of a dramatic finish.

Undercard is the first couple fights you see on the broadcast prior to the main (and co-main where applicable) event.

UFC 100’s main and co-main are the two title fights; everything else on the televised card is what I am referring to as an “undercard” fight.

by Numbers on Jul 3, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

People seem to have switched to calling the two portions – main card and undercard.

by bigweeze on Jul 3, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

GSP and Alves

aren’t doing as much press work as the other fighters either. its not just that they’re not talking smack, they’re hardly talking.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 2, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

good post BTW

thanks for contributing.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 2, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

After the winner of swick vs Kampman you have Johnson who’s a possibility (after maybe 2 more wins).

GSP can take anyone down even at light heavyweight so I’ll be very surprised if alves can stop it… combine that with the fact that GSP’s ground and pound is probably the best in the business and you have a nightmare to deal with.

But in the case of Alves winning there’s a great rematch possibility with Fitch.

by mmalogic on Jul 2, 2009 11:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

actually, i think Fitch-Alves makes a lot more sense when Alves loses and Fitch wins. But your right, that fight seems to be pretty obvious to finally get Fitch on the main card again. The job the UFC pulled on Fitch after their fiasco awhile back has been rough.

by mo dogg on Jul 3, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To Fitch’s credit, he’s done the best possible thing he can do: kept taking and winning fights. In the WW division, consistent wins are hard to come by; the talent is just too deep for most guys to go on extended runs. If Fitch keeps knocking people off, he’ll eventually re-stake his claim.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Jul 3, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not convinced Alves will make weight. I can see this being a non-title fight.

Actually, if that’s the case, and Alves doesn’t make weight, will they fight 3 rounds?

by jebushchrist on Jul 3, 2009 1:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Alves was down to 191 earlier in the week, don’t imagine it’ll be an issue.

by bigweeze on Jul 3, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

… did you weigh him?

by jebushchrist on Jul 3, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless he ‘hurts his ankle’ the week of the fight again. Did anyone think he looked like he had an injured ankle in that fight? Because he didn’t to me.

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 5, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure

The title has to be on the line for a five round fight. Was Silva/Lutter still scheduled for five when Travis missed weight?

by subo on Jul 3, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

They changed it to a 3 rounder

by Captain7 on Jul 3, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I couldn’t remember how they did that.

Anyway, this is just a hunch on my part.

by jebushchrist on Jul 3, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They just change it to a regular 3 round non-title fight. The real problem would be if Alves misses weight and he somehow managed to beat GSP, then you would have a champion who had lost during his title reign and a #1 challenger who you can never count on to make weight.

Due to Cheick Kongo's atrocious takedown defense....
Walla walla walla, I’m an idiot

Some people might say that winning a fight makes you a better fighter but I don’t agree with that.- BlueberryMuffin

by ufc4 on Jul 5, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude. Don’t even say that. That would suck.

by subo on Jul 5, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

GSP and Alves would both beat Hendo and Bisping.

This is a fight that GSP will probably win, but where it could turn very quickly for Alves, similarly to Kongo/Velasquez. Everyone knew Kongo would get dominated on the ground, but his powerful striking had him essentially one or two more good shots from finishing Cain.

by bigweeze on Jul 3, 2009 1:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You’re correct, but keep in mind that GSP would do a hell of alot better job defensively than Cain did in that fight. Ever since the Serra loss, GSP has become a little more elusive, and I don’t blame him…it only takes one serious ass whoopin’ to learn a good lesson.

"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate

by kyfm621 on Jul 3, 2009 4:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

GSP is a much more solid standup fighter than Cain, yep.

by bigweeze on Jul 3, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah except Thiago isn’t nearly as bad on the ground. He does have decent jits and is good at getting back to his feet.

Theres no doubt that Thiago needs to keep the fight standing to have a shot at winning….but he isn’t going to get manhandled like BJ did even if GSP gets a takedown.

by cauliflower_ears on Jul 3, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thiago got smothered by Fitch way back when, though it was a while ago and he was physically weaker.

Then again, GSP is stronger now too and controlled Fitch easily.

I don’t think Alves will show as badly as Kongo on the ground, but there could be a small resemblance.

by bigweeze on Jul 3, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Paulo Thiago, Dan Hardy, Karo Parisyan, Brock Larson, Dustin Hazelett are all good fighters, however, Carlos Condit MUST be talked about in the WW division.

Remember how close Condit v. Kampmann?

by donkeypunch on Jul 3, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He’s there, but he’s also 0-1 since coming from the WEC, so he needs some wins.

by subo on Jul 3, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with that but out of those 5 I don’t see one that Condit can’t beat

I know – I’m a Condit fanboy.

by donkeypunch on Jul 3, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“Can” and “did” are a world apart.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Jul 3, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bisbing/Hendo, is on the undercard??

by J_Maddux on Jul 4, 2009 1:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Semantics perhaps...

Like I said earlier in response to the same thing:

I draw a distinction between "undercard" and "prelims".

Prelims are what you don’t see on the telecast unless one is brought up to fill time or because of a dramatic finish.

Undercard is the first couple fights you see on the broadcast prior to the main (and co-main where applicable) event.

UFC 100’s main and co-main are the two title fights; everything else on the televised card is what I am referring to as an "undercard" fight.

by Numbers on Jul 4, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

See now, ‘undercard’ to me means ‘not main card’, means ‘lucky to be aired.’ If your fight is guaranteed to be on the PPV, guess what? You’re on the main card.

by subo on Jul 4, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe GSP got sick of the press whirlwind after the massive build for UFC 94 and the greasing scandal.

by MMAEruption on Jul 4, 2009 10:13 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This isn't a fight

No way Alves keeps GSP off of him. His best weapon is leg kicks and GSP will neutralize by shooting on him anytime he tries. GSP is way more athletic and much more a diverse striker and better on the ground. I know it was a while ago but Alves lost to frickin Spencer Fisher. Thiago needs to do more than beat Fitch to get a title shot – A. Koschek is an undisciplined goon who left his chin out looking for the KO and if Thiago beats Fitch (which won’t happen) but it would be simply an indictment of American Kickboxing’s uneven focus on striking and taking the best attribute out of their dominant wrestlers.

At least Al Davis isn't running my team's drafts.

by bringbackbuddytrees on Jul 5, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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